A24629	----	An account of severall things that passed between His Sacred Majesty and Richard Hubberthorne Quaker on the fourth of June 1660 After the delivery of George Fox his letter to the King. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A24629 of text R214806 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing A222A). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 11 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 7 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A24629 Wing A222A ESTC R214806 99826873 99826873 31282 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A24629) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 31282) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1901:1) An account of severall things that passed between His Sacred Majesty and Richard Hubberthorne Quaker on the fourth of June 1660 After the delivery of George Fox his letter to the King. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. [2], 10 p. printed for M.S. and are to be sold at the booksellers shops, London : 1660. Reproduction of original in the Cambridge University Library. eng Quakers -- Early works to 1800. Great Britain -- History -- Charles II, 1660-1685 -- Early works to 1800. A24629 R214806 (Wing A222A). civilwar no An account of severall things that passed between His Sacred Majesty and Richard Hubberthorne Quaker on the fourth of June 1660. After the d [no entry] 1660 1953 1 0 0 0 0 0 5 B The rate of 5 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the B category of texts with fewer than 10 defects per 10,000 words. 2004-12 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2004-12 Aptara Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-01 Mona Logarbo Sampled and proofread 2005-01 Mona Logarbo Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion AN ACCOUNT OF Severall things that passed between HIS SACRED MAJESTY AND RICHARD HUBBERTHORNE QUAKER On the fourth of June 1660. After the delivery of George Fox his Letter to the KING . LONDON , Printed for M. S. and are to be sold at the Booksellers shops . 1660. An Account of what passed between the King and Richard Hubberthorn , after the delivery of George Fox his Letter to the King . R. H. SInce the Lord hath called and gathered us to be a people to walke in his feare , and in his truth , we have alwaies suffered , and been persecuted by the powers that have ruled ; and been made a prey of for departing from iniquity . And when the breach of no Law could be charged against us , then they made Laws on purpose to ensnare us , and so our sufferings were unjustly continued . K. It is true , those that have ruled over you have been cruell , and have professed much which they have not done . R. H. And likewise the same sufferings doe now abound in more cruelty against us in many parts of this Nation , as for instance , one at Thetford in Norfolke , where Henry Fell ministring unto the people , was taken out from the meeting and whipt , and sent out of that Towne from Parish to Parish , towards Lancashire , the chiefe ground of his accusation in his passe which was shewn to the King was because he denied to take the Oath of Allegience and Supremacy ; and so because for conscience sake we cannot sweare , but have learned obedience to the doctrine of Christ , who saith , Sweare not at all ; hereby an occasion is taken against us , to persecute us ; and as it is well known we have not sworn for any nor against any , but have kept to the truth , and our yea hath been yea , and our nay nay , in all things , which is more then the Oath of those who are out of the truth . R. But why can you not swear ? for an Oath is a common thing among men to any engagement . R. H. It is manifest , and we have seen it by experience , that it is so common amongst men to swear and engage either for or against things , that there is no regard taken of them , nor fear of an Oath : that therefore which we speak from the bottom of our hearts is more then they swear . K. But can you not promise as before the Lord , which is the substance of the Oath ? R. H. Yes , what we doe affirm we can promise before the Lord , and take him to our witnesse in it ; but our so promising hath not been accepted ; but the ceremonie of an Oath they have stood for , without which all other things were accounted of none effect . K. But how may we know from the words that you will perform ? R. H. By proving of us , for they who Swear are not known to be faithfull but by proving of them , and so we by those who have tryed us are found to be truer in our promise then others by their oaths , and to those that do yet prove us , we shall yet do the same . K. Pray what is your principle ? R. H. Our principle is that Jesus Christ is the true light which enlightens every one that cometh into the world , that all men through him might believe , and that they are to obey and follow this light as they have received it , whereby they may be lead unto God and unto righteousness and the knowledge of the truth that they may be saved . K. This do all Christians confesse to be truth , and he is not a Christian that will deny it ? R. H. But many have denyed it both in words and writings and opposed us in it , and above a 100. Books are put forth in opposition to this principle . Lords , Then some of the Lords standing by the K. said that none would deny that , one of the Lords asked how long we had been called Quakers , or did we own that Name ? R. H. That name was given us in scorn and dirision about twelve years since , but there was some who lived in this truth before we had that Name given us . K. How long is it since you owned this Judgement and way ? R. H. It is near 12 years since I owned this truth according to the manifestation of it . K. What is your Name ? R. H. Richard Hubberthorn . K. Do you own the Sacraments ? R. H. As for the word Sacrament I do not read of it in the Scripture , but as for the Body and blood of Christ I own , and there is no remission without Blood . K. Well that is it , but do you not believe that every own is commanded to receive it ? R. H. This we believe that according as it is written in the Scripture , that Christ at his last supper took bread and brake it , and gave it to his Disciples , and also took the Cup and blessed it , and said unto them , as often as ye do this , that is , as often as you break bread you shew forth the Lords death till he come , and this we believe they did , and they eat their bread in singleness of heart from house to house , and Christ did come again unto them according to his promise , after which they said , we being many are one bread , for we are all pertakers of this own Bread . K. Friends . Then one of the K. Friends said , that is truth , for as many Grains make one bread of they being many Members are one Body , Another of them said , if they be bread they must be broken ? R. H. There is difference between the bread he brake at his last Supper , wherein they were to shew forth his death as in a sign till he came , and this whereof he spake they being many are one bread , for herein they were come more in the substance , and to speak more mistically as they know in the Spirit . K. Friends Then they said it was truth and he had spoken nothing but the truth . K. How know you that you are inspired by the Lord . R. H. According as we read in the Scriptures that the inspiration of the Almighty gives understanding , for by its inspiration is an understanding given us of the things of God . Lords Then one of the Lords said how do you know you are led by the true Spirit ? R. H. This we know because the spirit of truth it reproves the world of sin , and by it we were reproved of sin , and also are led from sin unto righteousnesse and obedience of truth , by which effects we know it is the true spirit , for the spirit of the wicked o doth not lead unto such things . K. and L. Then the King and Lords said it was truth . K. Well of this you may be assured that you shall none of you suffer for your Opinions or Religion , so long as you Live peaceably and you have the word of a K. for it , and I have also given a Declaration to the same purpose , that none shall wrong nor abus● you . K. How do you own Magistrates or Magistracy ? R. H. Thus we own Magistrates whomsoever is set up by God , either K. or Supream , or any set in Authority by him , who are for the punishment of Evil doers , and the praise of them that do well such we shall submit unto & assist in righteousnesse and civil things both by body and estate , and if any man do that which is unrighteous we must declare against it , only submit under it by a patient suffering , and not rebell against any by Insurrections , Plots , and Contrivances . K. Then the K. said it is enough . Lords , Then one of the Lords asked why do you meet together seeing every one of you have the Church in your selves ? R. H. According as it is written in the Scriptures the Church is in God , Thes. 1. 1. and they who feared the Lord did meet often together and speak one to another and were edyfied and comforted one in another , and so is our meeting together in the fear of the Lord , and to us it is profitable and herein we are edyfied and strengthned in the Life of Truth . K. How did you first come to believe the Scriptures were Truth ? R. H. I have believed the Scriptures from a Child to be a declaration of truth , when I had but a Litteral knowledge , natural education and tradition , but now I know the Scriptures to be true by the manifestation and operation of the spirit of God fulfilling them in me . K. In what manner doe you meet , and what is the order in your meetings ? R. H. We do meet in the same order as the people of God did , waiting upon him , and if any have an Exhortation from the Lord he may speak it , or if any have a word of reproof or admonition , and as every one hath received the gift , so they Minister one unto another , and may be edyfied one by another . Lord , One of the Lords said , then you know not so much as you may know but there is a growth then to be admitted of ? R. H. Yes , we do grow daily into the knowledge of the truth in our exercise and obedience to it . K. Are any of your friends gone to Rome ? R. H. Yes there is one in prison at Rome . K. Why did you send him thither ? R. H. We did not send him thither but he found something upon his Spirit from the Lord whereby he was called to go to declare against superstition & Idolatry wich is contrary to the will of God . K. F. The Kings Friends said there were two at Rome but one of them was dead . K. Have any of your Friends been with the great Turk ? R. H. Some of our Friends have been in that Countrey . Some other things would have been spoken but the KING passed away . FINIS . 
A44837	----	The antipathy betwixt flesh and spirit in answer to several accusations against the people called Quakers / by Richard Hubberthorne. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A44837 of text R6706 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing H3221). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 21 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 5 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A44837 Wing H3221 ESTC R6706 13506275 ocm 13506275 99806 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A44837) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 99806) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 791:21) The antipathy betwixt flesh and spirit in answer to several accusations against the people called Quakers / by Richard Hubberthorne. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. [2], 6 p. Printed for Giles Calvert ..., London : 1656. Caption title: The distance between flesh and spirit, &c. Reproduction of original in Huntington Library. eng Society of Friends -- Doctrines. A44837 R6706 (Wing H3221). civilwar no The antipathy betwixt flesh and spirit· In answer to several accusations against the people called Quakers· By Richard Hubberthorne. Hubberthorn, Richard 1656 4291 8 0 0 0 0 0 19 C The rate of 19 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the C category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2004-12 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-02 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-03 Mona Logarbo Sampled and proofread 2005-03 Mona Logarbo Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion THE ANTIPATHY BETWIXT FLESH and SPIRIT IN ANSWER TO SEVERAL ACCUSATIONS Against the People called QUAKERS . By Richard Hubberthorne . London , Printed for Giles Calvert , at the Black Spread-Eagle neer the West end of Pauls . 1656. The distance between Flesh and Spirit , &c. THis is the word of the Lord to all people , as I am moved of the Lord to clear the scandals and false accusations cast upon the righteous seed ; and as the seed of God in all generations hath suffered reproaches from the world , so now the same seed , where it is brought forth , suffers by this generation of evil doers , and is afflicted and tormented , and shamefully accused now in England , whom you call Quakers : and you say we deny all the Ordinances of Christ ; and you say we do not honour the Magistrates ; nor are subject unto authority , but are disturbers and breakers of the peace , which is false . The first Accusation . You say , we deny Repentance . Answ. And this is false , for Repentance is the gift of God , and this gift we have received , and his free Grace , which teacheth us to deny all ungodliness and worldly lusts , Tit. 2. 12. And by Repentance have forsaken sin , as it was discovered to us by the light of Christ , which he hath enlightned us withall , and so the mercies of God we have found according to his promise , and are sent of the Lord to preach Repentance to all people , who would have all men come to repentance , and to the acknowledgement of the truth , that they might be saved . 2 Tim. 2. 25. And with the word of the Lord , as they are moved of the Lord , do many go now with this Doctrine into your Streets , into your Markets , into your Synagogues , and into your Cities , to call you to repentance , before the wrath of the Lord come upon you : & both sons and daughters now are sent to preach this doctrine amongst you from the Lord , and for obeying the Lord herein , are they reviled by you , and persecuted , and falsly accused , and this is left for a testimony against you from the Lord , and shal bear witness against you . The second Accusation is , That we deny baptism . Answ. The baptism of Christ we own , which all the Saints were baptized into , which was , by one Spirit into one body , as in 1 Cor. 12. 13. and by this baptism we do witness the washing away of sin , not onely the washing away the filth of the flesh , but the answer of a good conscience towards God : But sprinkling of Infants we deny , which there is no Scripture for . And all you who from your imiginations do imitate Iohns baptisme , and so go into the water , and say , You are believers , and have right to the Ordinances of Christ , but you to be believers we deny , who are not yet come to Repentance , and your water-baptism , which is but an imitation from the Letter ; for the Lord never sent you forth , nor commanded you neither to preach nor baptize , as they did whom you go about to imitate , who are not yet come to repentance , nor to the first Principle of the Doctrine of Christ , not to own the light of Christ in your consciences , which should exercise them , and lead you to wait upon God , and lead you to repentance , and the faith of believers you know not , for the mystery of faith is held in a pure conscience . 1 Tim. 3. 9. which you cannot witness , which hates the Light of Christ , which should exercise your consciences , and so your mindes and consciences is defiled , and with that minde you talk of faith , and of the Ordinances of Christ , and of water-baptism , which serveth unto us for a figure , as the Apostle saith , 1 Pet. 3. 21. And Jesus Christ was baptized by Iohn by water , that he might fulfill all righteousness , Mat. 3. 15. And Iohn was a Prophet , and Christ is the end of the Prophets ; and Iohns baptism was but a figure , for he said , He did but baptize with water , but Christ is the end of all figures , types , and shadows , and did fulfil them , for he fulfilled all Righteousness , and Iohns Ministery , and Iohns Baptism , and he that fulfilled all Righteousness , the same baptizeth , which Iohn did bear witness unto , and all men came unto him , John 3. 16. but hee baptized none with waeer : but this is a mystery to thy dark minde , which knows not the baptism of Christ , nor Iohns Doct●ine , nor Jesus Christ the true light , which enlightneth every one that cometh into the world , which Iohn bare witness unto , Ioh. 1. 9. but goes to hold up the types and figures which Christ came to fulfill , and so denyest Christ to be come in the Flesh to fulfill all Righteousness , and so thou art an Antichrist , who holds up the figures which Christ came to fulfill , and so thou denies the Scriptures and Christ , who said , he came to fulfill all Righteousnesse ; and the Saints baptism thou art ignorant of , which is , by one Spirit into one Body , 1 Cor. 12. 13. And Paul who was a Minister of Christ , and preached the Gospell , did bring many into this baptism , and he was not sent to baptize with water , but to preach the Gospell ; and all the Churches which he preached unto , came to witness Christs Baptisme with the Holy Ghost and with Fire , by one Spirit into one Body , and was baptized into Christ who was the Head of the Body , Rom. 6. 3. and by this baptism we are thus washed from all filthiness of Flesh and Spirit ; but your imitated baptisme of Water we deny , who live in your filthiness of Flesh and Spirit , whose mindes and Consciences are defiled ; but the baptism of Christ we own , which purifies our Consciences from dead works , and keeps our minds undefiled by the washing of regeneration , and renewing of the Holy Ghost , Tit. 3. 5. The third Accusation is , That we deny the Sacrament , which is an Ordinance of Christ . Answ. For the word Sacrament , there is no such Scripture which speaks of a Sacrament , therefore we do deny you and your Sacrament , and your bread and wine , which is carnall , and feeds the carnall which must die , and your Communion is in that which is carnal in the creatures ; and Drunkards , and Swearers have fellowship together with you in those things ; and all Lyars , Covetous ones , Prophane and Idolatrous ones eats of the bread , and drinks of the cup , and sits at the Table , which is the Table of devills , and this is your Sacrament , which stands without in carnal bread & wine , and feeds the carnal , which oppresseth & murders the seed of God within you ; & you say , Christ hath left that as an Ordinance for you to practise : which is false , which we deny ; but the Supper of the Lord we own , The Cup of blessing which we bless , is it not the Communion of the blood of Christ ? and the bread which we break , is it not the Communion of the body of Christ ? for we being many are one bread , for we are all partakers of that one bread , 1 Cor. 10 16 , 17 , 21 , 22. And this is the bread which came down from heaven , he that eateth thereof shall never dye ; and this bread we all eat of , and this cup we all drink of , and this is that which is practised and commanded in the Church of Christ , and so we sit at the Table or Christ , and cannot sit nor have fellowship with the Table of Devills : and they who sit at your Table and your Sacrament , and eats of your bread , and drink of your wine , they die , for it is not the bread of life ; and you who eats and drinks it , doth not di●cern the Lords body , for it is spiritual , and your Sacrament is carnal , And so you eat and drink damnation to yourselves , not discerning the Lords body , feeding the carnal with the carnal , and so we deny your Sacrament to be any Ordinance of Christ , or the Supper of Christ , 1 Cor. 11. 29. The fourth Accusation is , That we deny the resurrection of the body . Answ. And that is false , For at the sound of the last trumpet the dead shal be raised , they that have done good shall arise to the resurrection of life , they that have done evill , to the resurrection of condemnation . And we preach Christ risen from the dead , and if the dead rise not , then is our preaching vain , and your faith is also in vain , and you are yet in youe sins , who knows not this resurrection , Christ risen from the dead in you , 1 Cor. 15. 14 , 15 , 16 , 17. But some man will say , How are the dead raised ? and with what bodies do they come ? 1 Cor. 15. 35. Thou fool , that which thou sowest , thou sowest not that body that shall be , but bare grain , it may chance of wheat , or of some other grain , but God giveth it a body as pleaseth him , and to everyseed his own body . There is also coelestial bodies , and bodies terrestrial ; and the glory of the coelestial is one , and the glory of the terrestrial is another ; there is one glory of the Sun , and another glory of the Moon , and another glory of the Stars , for one Star differs from another Star in glory . So also is the resurrection of the dead , it is sown in corruption , it is raised in incorruption ; it is sown in dishonour , it is raised in glory ; it is sown in weakness , it is raised in power , it is sown a naturall body , it is raised a spirituall body , 1 Cor. 15. 35 , 36 , 37 , 38. Now this I say unto you all , That flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdome of God , neither doth corruption inherit incorruption , 1 Cor. 15. 50 , 51 , 52. But this is to you all a mystery , who are in the first nature , whose understandings are not enlightned by the light of Christ , who lives in your sorms , notions , and professions of these things in the letter , feeding your carnal mindes with the Letter , which is death and killeth , and so your mindes are drawn from the Light of Christ within you , into outward observances of meats and drinks , bread and wine , divers washings and carnal Ordinances , which were figures of the time then present , Heb. 9. 9 , 10. and you deny . Jesus Christ the substance , who is the true light that enlightneth everyone that cometh into the world . Now to the light in you all I speak , which Christ Jesus hath enlightned you withall , and if you love this light it wil lead you out of all your carnal Ordinances and worthips , and divers washings , which stands in the first covenant , which was before Christ , and is done away in Christ the second covenant , and it wil lead you to worship God in the spirit , and into the doctrine of Christ , to yea and nay in all your communications : but all you who are got up high in forms and profession , you are not yet come to yea and nay , but are out of the doctrine of Christ , and walks contrary to the light of Christ in your consciences , which light shall be your condemnation that hates it , Iohn 3. 19 , 20. though you be got up high in your forms , and notions , and words of the Saints conditions , who spoke in the light and from the life : And you who have the form , but not the life , shall be condemned by the life ; and you who hate the light , shal be condemned with the light and life which gave forth the Scriptures . The fifth Accusation is , That we do not honour Magistrates , nor are subject unto Authority , but are disturbers and breakers of the peace . Answ. Justice we own , and righteousness ; and all who love the light of Christ which he hath enlightned them withall , it will lead them to act justice . And all Magistrates , I charge you in the presence of the living God to act according to that which is pure of God in the conscience . And all Magistrates who act according to that of God in the conscience , are honoured by those who fear the Lord , and walk in obedience to that in the conscience : and these who act justice according to that in the conscience , they do not bear the sword in vain , for that in the conscience is according to the Law of God , and all you Magistrates , who are set over the people to do justice , and execute the Law upon offenders , this is the word of the Lord to you , to mind the light of Christ in your consciences , and it will cause you to act according to the place of a Magistrate ; but if you suffer swearers , and drunkards , or lyars , or oppressors , or fal●e weights , or strikers , or quarrellers , or fighters , and do not punish them , or whoremongers , or idolatrous , or idle persons without a calling ; and thou that passeth by these things , and doth not act justice according to the Law , then thou acts not according to that light in the conscience , and thou bears the sword in vain , and that in the conscience will take hold upon thee , and condemn thee , and will execute the righteous Law of God upon thee who refuseth to act according to that in the conscience : but those whom you call Quakers , act according to that in the conscience , and they are no fighters , no str●kers , no drunkards , no swearers , no oppressors , no whoremongers , no idolaters , no fornicato●s , no lyars , no scorners , no revilers , no false accusers , not proud , not high-minded , not thieves , not murtherers , for they give Obedience to that in the conscience , which crucifies them to all these things , & so the Law cannot take hold upon them , and from the Lord do they declare against all these things where they are yet standing , which the Law of God takes hold upon . And you who are called Magistrates and Justices , as you pass through the Streets , in the Cities , and in the Markets , you may hear men swear and lye , and be drunk in the Al●houses , and you pass by them : and when any of the Servants of the Lord , who are sent of the Lord into the Markets or Cities , and declare the VVord of the Lord against drunkards , and swearers , and lyars , who are cheating one another , & cozening one another , and bid them repent , and declare to them the just judgement of God which is to fall upon them , and all such whom thou who art a Magistrate hath neglected to act justice upon , & to punish according to the Law , then they who are drunkards fall a fighting and striking , and hales them to thee who art a Magistrate , which should punish the drunkards and swearers , fighters and strikers , and thou sayest , they have distu●bed the people , and broken the peace , when they have declared the VVord of the Lord against Sin and Vngodliness , and all the unrighteousness of men , which thou should have punished by the Law ; & thou art called a Justice of peace , and this is thy peace which is kept with drunkards , and swearers , and strikers , & fighters , and is disturbed by the word of the Lord declared from the mouth of the Lord by his Servants against all these things , who are not guilty of any of those things , & here thou art no Minister of God ; but an encourager of evill doers , and discourager of those that do well , which declares justice from God against those whom thou should act justice upon ; and when they are brought before thoe , then thou wouldst have them to honour thee , who art a vile person , and no Minister of God , and no Honour belongs unto thee ; but he who Ministers Justice from that which is pure of God in the Conscience , is worthy of double Honour ; and because they will not honour thee who acts no Justice but according to thy corrupt will , and is not obedient to that of God in the conscience , thou sends them to prison , or out of the City , or out of the Markets , or stocks them , or whips them ; and if a drunkard , or swearer will put off his hat to thee , and bow to thee , and call thee Master , thou dost not imprison such a one , nor punish him neither with stocks , nor whips , nor counts him any breaker of the peace ; and here they who break the peace , and act contrary to the Law of God , are spared , and are at liberty ; and they who keep the peace and do violence to no man , they are punished by those who should act Justice in the Land . And here iniquity is set in the place of Justice , and is at liberty , and truth is imprisoned by the Rulers of the Nation . And to all Rulers I speake from the Lord to that in your consciences , minding it will let you see who it is that is not subject to Authority , whether they that are drunk , or they who declare against drunkenness , whether they that swear , or they who declare against swearing , and deny to swear at all ; whether they that fight and strike and beat one another or they who never lift up a hand against any man , but declare the word of the Lord against such things . And them whom you call quakers are no drunkards , nor no swearers ; for Jesus Christ saith , Swear not at all , but let your yea be yea , and your nay be nay ; and so they abide in the doctrine of Christ , and keep the peace of God , and are justified in the sight of God , and are no breakers of the peace , but are subject unto Authority , and for conscience sake cannot break the Commands of Christ , nor do any wrong nor violence unto any man and the peace ; for they are no fighters nor strikers , Rom. 13. 45. but they are smitten and striken , and ●lley give their backs to the smiter , and hide not their face from shame and spitting , as the same seed Christ did , who passed before , Isa. 50. 6. who preached repentance , & spoke in Cities , Markets , & Villages , and by the Sea-coasts , and then all the Citie was on an uproare , as it is now , and their peace was broken , and they were disturbed , and they smote him on the face , and buffetted him , and imprisoned him , left if he should be let alone , all men should believe on him . And you are the same generation now , for any who are sent of the Lord now , to preach repentance , to turn you from your iniquities , that your mindes might be turned to the Light of Christ within you , which will check you for sin and evill , then your Cities are on an uproare against them , to persecute them , and so you fill up the measures of your fathers iniquity . A word from the Lord to all you who are called before the Magistrate to be a Jury , who swear before the Magistrates to see the Law put in execution , and that you will execute the Law upon drunkards and swearers , and that you will see that the poor , the fatherless , and widows be relieved , and not see them want , and this you swear before the Magistrates , That you wil see it performed , and that none be idle , nor wander abroad without a calling ; and some of you that swear to punish drunkards , are drunkards , and have fellowship with drunkards ; and you that swear to punish swearers , are swearers ; and here out of your own mouth you are condemned , and by the light of Christ you are judged , who are swearers , you are out of the commands of Christ , who saith , Swear not at all . And you see the poor , the fatherless , and widows in want , and you do not relieve them ; and you see idle persons without any calling , and you do not set them on work ; but they live in idleness , devouring the creation ; and herein you do not perform your vowes , nor execuse the Law which you profess , and so acts contrary to the light of Christ in your consciences . Now to the light of Christ in you all I speak , and charge you in the presence of the living God , to take heed unto it , and it will let you see wherein you have transgressed the pure Law of God , and suffered sin to reign unpunished , and it will bring the condemnation upon you , who have acted contrary to it , and taking heed to the light , it will lead you out of all those things which the Law of God takes hold upon , and will adde the Law upon every transgression , and all you that act contrary to the light of Christ in the conscience , it will be your condemnation , and you are they who deny the Ordinances of Christ , which walks not according to the light of Christ , which he hath enlightned you withall ; and you are they who are not subject to Authority , who are not obedient to the light of Christ in the conscience , and you are the disturbers and breakers of the peace , whose mindes are not guided by the light of Christ ; and this light will let you see , giving heed unto it , who are out of the commands of Christ , and is not subject unto authority , nor obedient to the light of Christ in the conscience . And here I have cleared my conscience to you all from the Lord , to the light of Christ in your consciences I speak , which will eternally witness mee to have spoken the truth unto you all , who have falsly accused the innocent , As I was moved of the Lord , who is a servant unto you from the Lord , in love to all your souls to set up righteousness in the Land . RICHARD HUBBERTHORNE . FINIS . 
A44833	----	An answer to a book called A just defence and vindication of Gospel-ministers, and Gospel-ordinances put forth by J.G. In which he pretends an answer to E.B.'s Tryal of the ministers, and other things against the Quakers. ...Given forth from him who desires the edification and satisfaction of all in the things appertaining to the Kingdom of God, Rich. Hubberthorn Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A44833 of text R219971 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing H3217). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 44 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 8 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A44833 Wing H3217 ESTC R219971 99831415 99831415 35878 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A44833) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 35878) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 2050:2) An answer to a book called A just defence and vindication of Gospel-ministers, and Gospel-ordinances put forth by J.G. In which he pretends an answer to E.B.'s Tryal of the ministers, and other things against the Quakers. ...Given forth from him who desires the edification and satisfaction of all in the things appertaining to the Kingdom of God, Rich. Hubberthorn Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. 15, [1] p. printed for Robert Wilson, at the sign of the Black-spread-eagle and Wind-Mill, in Martins P Grand [sic], London : 1660. A reply to: Gaskin, John: A just defence and vindication of Gospel-ministers. Reproduction of the original in the Friends' Library, London. eng Gaskin, John, fl. 1660. -- Just defence and vindication of Gospel-ministers -- Controversial literature -- Early works to 1800. Society of Friends -- Early works to 1800. Quakers -- Early works to 1800. A44833 R219971 (Wing H3217). civilwar no An answer to a book called A just defence and vindication of Gospel-ministers, and Gospel-ordinances; put forth by J.G. In which he pretends Hubberthorn, Richard 1660 7860 11 0 0 0 0 0 14 C The rate of 14 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the C category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2004-12 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-02 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-03 Mona Logarbo Sampled and proofread 2005-03 Mona Logarbo Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion AN ANSWER To a book called A JUST DEFENCE AND VINDICATION Of Gospel-Ministers , and Gospel-Ordinances ; put forth by J. G. In which he pretends an Answer to E. B's . Tryal of the Ministers , and other things against the Quakers . But on the contrary hath manifested , that he is altogether Ignorant of the Gospel-Ministry and Ordinance , as will appear to him that reads this Answer , with desire to understand the Truth ; and so to receive Satisfaction . And instead of clearing the Truth in any Particular , he hath falsly charged God , Christ , the Holy Spirit , the Primitive Churches and the Quakers , with such things of which they were never any of them guilty , as will appear in the following Testimony . Given forth from him who desires the Edification and Satisfaction of all in the things appertaining to the Kingdom of God , RICH. HUBBERTHORN . The workers of inquity have no knowledge , there is no faithfulness in their mouth , their inward part is very wickedness , Psa. 59. and with their words they shew forth the same . London Printed for Robert Wilson , at the Sign of the Black-spread 〈◊〉 and Wind-Mill , in Martins l'Grand , 1660. An Answer to the Priests Defence . WHatsoever is written or acted against the Truth , and those that walk in it , is but a fulfilling of the Scripture of Truth , which saith , The way of the wicked is darkness , and they know not at what they stumble , Prov. 4. 19. Although the stumbling-stone be the Light , the Foundation of many generations ; in rejection of which many go about to build and would be approved , one of which I shall here mention . John Gaskin , who would Defend and Vindicate the Priests , their Preaching , Practice and Maintenance , though contrary unto Christ his Apostles , his Light and his Words declared in Scripture , as will appear . And first , That his Testimony may be received , he begins in an appearance of faigned humility , and begging of Pardon for his slips and impertenences and rudeness of stile , used against the Quakers , saying , his work is not with eloquency , nor humane Arts . In the Examination of which , we do find that he hath often slipped , and used much impertenency of speech and rudeness of stile , and neither Eloquency , Spirituality or true Humanity in his works , many of which being so plainly seen to all , is accounted not worth Printing again ; but somthing here is mentioned , by which all the other may be Compared and Judged . Again , divers Reasons are alleadged as a cause of Printing J. G. his Defence of the Priests , first he saith , The great Malice and Envy against the Ministers , and the many Letters and Printed Books sent by Quakers , and the great growth and encrease in Errors , and because many of his old Friends and Acquaintance are ( as he saith ) seduced from the Church , and to strengthen such as are wavering through ignorance and weakness , and to clear himself , &c. and that it might be seen & come into many hands . Answ. He that would accomplish those things before named , to wit , subdue Malice and Envy , and Errors , and instruct the ignorant , and him that is out of the way , and strengthen the weak , he must be such a one as is led by the Spirit , and walks in the Light of Christ , which is so much hated and contemned by Priests and their Defenders ; that first those things may be subdued in themselves , and then Minister against them in others ; but none of those things can be done by that spirit which hath ruled in J. G. but that his latter Reasons , which he saith , moved him to Print , may be fulfilled ; that 〈…〉 That it may be seen , and come into many hands ; and that to thy own shame , when they read and consider thy unlearned Lodgick , wherein thou goest to prove , that it is not sufficient to bring us to Heaven to be freed from fin ; for thou saist , A Horse hath no sin ; and so by thy comparison a man without sin , is but as a Horse ; so that thou hast truly said , Thy work is without Eloquence or Humane Art : but seeing thou hast taken in hand to put things to publick view , in thy next prove , who those men are upon the Earth that are without sin , & are not sufficient for the Kingdom of Heaven ; and whether was it any thing that did separate man from God , but sin ? And was not Christ onely made manifest to take away sin ? And is not man perfectly Righteous , when his sin is taken away and made the Righteousness of God in him , Which takes it away , to wit , the Lamb of God , which all the Nations of them that are saved , must walk in his Light ? and it is those that hate the Light , and is against freedom from sin , that have no understanding of the Mysteries of God , which is like the Horse or Mule , whose mouth must be held with Bit and Bridle , and are like the Beast that perish ; but they that are freed from sin , are not so , neither is the Horse their Comparison ; but herein thou hast shamed thy self and thy Ministers , that they should be so ignorant , as neither to teach thee better Doctrine before thou didst write , nor correct thee when thou hadst written ; but to suffer such a thing to appear in this Nation , where Light is broken forth , that the state of freedom from sin , is no better than the state of a Horse ; but as the Scriptures saith , Your folly shall be made manifest unto all men ; which Scripture is daily fulfilling , and we are satisfied in it . Again , to ●ndicate the Priests of England to be Ministers of the Gospel , thou bringst many Scriptures , whereby thou wouldst prove them to be lawfully called , though they be out of the Power of God , and want the Power of that which they teach , page 7. As the sons of Eli ( thou saist ) were lawful Priests , though they were wicked men ; and this is a fit comparison , as thou may read in the first of Samuel . 2. 12. Now the sons of Eli were sons of Belial , they knew not the Lord ; and so according to this , thou hast rightly compared the Priests ; for though they have the name of being called , yet know they the Lord no more than the Sons of Belial did . Again in the same page thou saist , The Scribes and Pharisees were called to teach , and Judas was a true Apostle ; from which thou wouldst prove the Call of the Priests to be a true Call to the Ministry . Answ. If the Priests did Minister as truly as the Scribes and Pharisees did ; that is , read or speak the Scriptures truly , then thou mighest exhort the People , to do as the Priests say , but not to do as they do ; but seeing that they do not truly speak the Scripture , but by consequences pervert it , as thou hast done in thy Book ; it is not therefore a good Doctrine , to bid the People either do as they say , or as they do , because they both say falsly & do falsly ; and as for thy comparing of them to Judas , as for his being called and receiving part of the Ministry ; that , they are not like unto him in , because as yet they have no part nor lot in that matter ; but for his Treachery and Covetousness , bearing the Bag , and betraying the Lord of Life , for pieces of money , in that , they may be compared to him . But thou saist , The wickedness of the Person doth not disanul his Office , being lawfully called thereunto , until he be degraded from that Office ; And to prove it , thou bring'st several Scriptures , as Ezekiel 34. 3. where the Shepheards eat the Fat and cloath with the Wool , and did not feed the Flock ; Esa. 56. 10 , 11. They are dumb Dogs that cannot bark , sleeping , lying down , loving to slumber , they all look to their own way , every one for his gain from his Quarter , come ye ( say they ) I will fetch Wine , and we will fill our selves with strong drink , and to morrow shall be as this day , and much more abundant ; and these , saist thou , were truly called . From which Example your Ministers , as thou thus provest , are lawfully called to the work of the Ministry ; but when these Ministers and People read thy Book , they will not much commend thee for such a Defence for them ; But how dost thou prove that those before mentioned were lawfully called unto the work of the Ministry , being wicked Persons ? But when thou read'st the Scripture over again , thou maist see that those are such as the Lord said , did run and he sent them not , and said , the Lord saith , when he had not spoken unto them , Jer. 14. 14. Now in this Vindication , thou hast not done any thing of that pretented confuting E. B. his Book called A Just and Lawful Tryal of the Ministers and Teachers of this Age ; but hast rather confirmed it , for he truly compared them unto those spoken of before mentioned , and thou hast compared them , as to the sons of Eli , which were sons of Belial , and knew not God ; and so his Book yet stands in force ( for a Tryal to such ) unanswered . And again as for thy pleading for Tythes for such as are like the sons of Belial , thou hast no Precept , Practice nor Example in Scripture to plead for such a thing , neither as such , nor as the Ministers of Christ . And whereas thou mention'st , Act. 4 and Act. 5. and 1 Cor. 9. 4 , 5 , &c. These Scriptures , speak nothing of Tythes , nor of any Maintenance to the Ministry ; but onely how that when they had planted a Vineyard , they might eat of the fruit ; and when they had gathered a Flock , might eat of the milk ; and when they had sown spiritual things ( amongst a people ) they had power to eat and power to drink ; and so it was ordained that they who Preached the Gospel should live of the Gospel ; but it was not ordained that those who Preached the Gospel , should live by forced Maintenance , or by making Merchandize of mens Goods and Estates , of which the Priests in England , for which thou writest this Defence , are guilty . Again , thou goest about to Defend the Prie●ts sprinkling of Infants , saying , It is a Sign or Seal of Salvation , page 64. Answ. If this be true that all Children thus sprinkled with water , have the Seal of Salvation by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ , & are by this Baptism made partakers of Grace , and United into the Church as Members of the Church ; Why do you say both Priests and Professors , that there is no falling from Grace ? have not many been so engrafted into the Church , and received that Seal , whom you now call Hereticks and Deceivers ? why do you so confound one Principle with another , for we have been already so ingrafted into the visible Church , and made partakers of that Grace , which you say , its impossible to fall from . And thou bring'st Calvins words , which saith , That although there be but a little water cast upon our heads , yet notwithstanding it is not a vain figure , for the Heavens are opened upon us , and God speaks in it , as it were from Heaven , and Christ is there present with his blood , as Witnesses of the usage and operation of the Sacrament , and saith , Baptism is a Token and Proof of our Cleansing , or a Seal and Character whereby God confirmeth unto us that all our sins are cancelled and abolished , and that they may never be rehearsed nor imputed . So then by this he that hath a little water cast on his Head , he hears God speak in it , and Christ being present with his blood , washes away all sin ; and this is a proof of his Cleansing . So , why dost thou and the Priests speak and write against us , as being fallen from Grace , or departed from the Truth , seeing we have received as well as you , the Seal of the Covenant and Proof of Cleansing ; and cannot fall from it , if your Doctrine be true ; but as for Spinkling Infants , thou hast not brought one Scripture to prove it ; but saist Baxter against Tombes hath proved it , and quotest Calvin and Beza , as if their words were plainer proof for thy purpose , then any Scripture ; for there is no Scripture without invented consequences , that is a precept for it ; and when thou hast wearied thy self and canst not prove it , thou saist , whatsoever may be proved from the Scripture by consequence , to be the scope and meaning of the Scripture , is sufficient proof , page 73. Again thou askest us a question , To shew thee one Command or Example in the Scripture , for the Baptizing of those that are growen up , whose Parents one or both were Christians by professing the Gospel of Christ . Answ. If thou knew the Scriptures , or didst weigh thy own words , it would stop thee from asking such foolish & unlearned Questions ; for thou thy self confessest , that those which were growen up were Baptized , and that they had also received the Holy Ghost before they were Baptized ; and as for them , or their Parents , being called Christians by their Profession , many beleivers were Baptised and followed Christ , before the name Christians was given to them , as thou may read Acts 11. 26. that after much people was gathered , and so become Churches , they were first called Christians at Antioch , so whatsoever their Parents were called by Profession , that is nothing to that which thou art about to prove ( sprinkling of Infants ) but to conclude thy proof for Infants Baptism , thou quotes Rob. Brook , who thou sayst hath read more Ecclesiasticall histories to find out the rise and beginning of Baptism of Infants in the Church of Christ then all the Quakers , and yet he could ne●er find the beginning of it ; so here all this while thou hast pleaded for that , which thou knowest not , who was the first Author of ; and so thou hast run out thy self into meer ignorance : But that thou maist be informed & made wiser than thy Teachers , & thy learned Readers of Ecclesiastical Historyes , I shall shew thee the beginning of that Baptism , and who first invented Holy Water , In the reign of Pope Alexander , was Holy Water first invented , water mixed with salt , and by the saying of these words , we bless water mixed with salt among the people , that all men sprinkled therewith may be Sanctified , and purified , and this we command all Priests to do , as Plynny writeth . And hereby thou mayest know the first Father or Inventor of this your practise ; the Pope and not the Apostles , so when thou writes again do not so undervallew al the Quake's , as thou hast done in this thy book , as to say that they dare not read Latine Books , nor have read Histories , and thou sayest , we count it a sinn for Ministers to learn Latine : But these are but false aspersions , for we do not account it sinn to learn Latine , Greek , or Hebrew , neither are we afraid to read them , but we so far do read and know them , that we have found out the Priests deceipt , by pretending that of the Tongues which they had not ; and though you Preach and Practise that which you know not where it had it's beginning , yet we know how deceit came in , and how it hath overspread you with darknesse and ignorance , and because you see not , therefore you judge us to be blind , but the Light of knowledge is arisen , in which we see before the Pope , his holy Water mingled with salt or sprinkling Infants was , and see the beginning , and End of those dark inventions , and our Doctrine , and Principles , tends to the bringing of People , to know a true living foundation for all their practices , and that the darknesse of Popery , and traditions of men may not alwayes keep people in blindnesse ; to practise the Popes inventious , instead of the Apostles and Christ Doctrine , who by the bright shining of his light is leading people to his Baptism , which is by one spirit into one body , by fire and by the Holy-Ghost , and such can no longer be kept in that , which doth not so much as wash away the filth of the flesh , but comes to the Answer of a good Conscience , and witnesseth the Baptism which saveth , as the Apostle Peter saith , 1 Pet. 3. 21. and such are come to the washing of Regeneration , and renewing of the Holy Ghost . Again , to fill up thy book thou hast charged many false things upon us , and so findst thy self work , by enlarging thy lyes one after another . As first thou sayst some of us have affirmed that Christ did never arise from the grave , and that his body is rotted within the grave , and that some of us have made a mock of his Doctrine of Justification , by the imputation and the intercession of Christ . Answ. These things are thy own , and were never affirmed by any of us ; but on the contrary that Christ is arisen from the dead and is become our first fruits , and by the imputation and intercession are we Justified , and of God is he made unto us Justification and life . Again thou saist , we neither know nor understand what your Ministers preach . Answ. Yes , we both know and understand , that they preach lyes in the Name of the Lord , and we know and understand that thou art going about to make a defence and vindication for them in so doing . Again thou sayst the Quakers say , it matters not whether a man doe any good works , seeing they make him not good : Page 41. Answ. This is false , for none of the Quakers ever said so ; for our goodnesse is of the Lord and not of works , and because we have received goodnesse and mercy from him therefore doe we those things that please him , and are obedient to his Will and Commands , Again , Page ( 43. ) that we say a man is saved by hearkning to the light within him and obeying the same . Answ. We never said that by hearkning or obeying , that man is saved ; but by him which they are to hear and obey are they saved , and without hearkning to his voyce , and obeying of him to whom he is preached , there is no Salvation . Again Page 47. Thou sayst the Quakers instead of blessing and praying for their Enemies , curse them Answ. This is false for we blesse , and curse not , but all cursed practices , words , and actions , we testifie against , and for this cause are we accounted thy enemies , because we tell thee the truth . Again , page ( 48. ) Thou sai●t instead of abhorring our selves , we justify our selves . Answ. This is of the number of the rest a false accusation , for selfe is that , which we beare witnesse against in all , justifying nothing but what God justifieth , and condemning nothing but what God condemneth . Again , page 49. Thou sayest the Quakers are so proud to think , and say , they are more perfect then the Apostle Paul . Answ. When did any of the Quakers say , they were more perfect then the Apostle ? but it seems thy tongue is at liberty to make a refuge for the Priests , and fill a volume of paper with lyes . Again , page ( 51 ) thou sayst , that many of the Quakers go up and down naked , to manifest that they are as perfect , as Adam was in Innocency . Answ. Their going naked is as a Sign unto thee , & the Priests , whom the Lord is now stripping of the sheeps cloathing , that all may see your shame and nakednesse , and that which you have been covered with is but as leaves , and a Formal Notional Profession of God , without his Life , Power or Spirit , and you must be as naked from this covering , before you be Innocent , as ever any Quaker hath been from their cloaths . Again , page ( 56. 57 ) thou sayest that we do condemn not only the Churches now in being ; but all that ever have been ; the Churches of Asia , Corin●h , Galatia , and Thessalonica , &c. Answ. This is but an addition to thy former lyes , for those Churches we do own , and all such as do walk in their life , and are guided by their Spirit , for the Church of the Thessalonians was in God , 1 Thes. 1. but thou hast appeared to be of another Spirit , and hast manifested thy self to be a condemner of those Churches , as well as of us , as in page 55. thou saist in the Church at Corinth that there was such corrupt members among them , as you can scarce find in the worst of your Congregations . So of that which thou falsly chargest us , thou art truly guilty thy self , and so hast condemned those Churches , and Iustified your selves : But what corruption was it that was so bad in those Churches , that is not in the worst of your Congregations . Again , as a proof for thy condemning your own Churches , thou brings Brightmans , words saying , behold whatsoever is first , that is true , and whatsoever is later , that is false , Chap. 3. page 113. So that hereby , by thy old Author and Logick , thou hast proved all your Churches in England to be false , for the Churches of Asia , Corinth , Galatia , and Thessalonica , these were the first ; but the Churches in England Episcopal and Presbytery , these are latter , therefore false . Again , pag 60. Thou sayest , the Quakers say they are so perfect , that they cannot grow in knowledge nor grace . Answ. The Quakers never said so , but on the contrary , we do grow in knowledge and in grace , whereby we se , and comprehend , how thou and the Preists do grow in rage , enmity , and false accusations against us , and we know also , that you must fulfil your measure of Iniquity , and that all manner of evil must be spoken against us falsly , and so we are satisfied , because we suffer not for evill doing , but for well doing . Again , page 61. Thou chargest us not to obey the commands of Christ , but do teach men to break his commands ; twice in one page , and again in the next page . Answ. All which doth but prove and manifest thy unbridled tongue , under which is the poyson of Aspes , but if thou , or any other could in meeknesse and simplicity prove , that wee have either broken any of his Commands , or taught others to break them ; then we would be convinced , and thou should be counted a reprover and instructer in righteousnesse ; but on the contrary we see , that bitternesse and a lying spirit hath possessed thee , and that thou only invents and Imagines false things to fil up thy book , which we were never guilty of , which never any sober man , that had but the parts of a man , would ever lay to our charge , seeing , that both our principles , and practices , witnesseth to the contrary . Again , to make thy Vollume large , in page 82. thou brings the same lyes over again , charging us to say , That we are more fuller of the Spirit then the Apostles , and of more knowledge , and stronger in Faith then the Apostles . Which Affirmation is thy own , and not ours ; and therefore is returned back to be Condemned , where it did arise . In page 83. thou saist , The Quakers will have no Order ; and page 84. thou saist , We are wise in our own conceit , and that we think our selves , wiser than Christ , or his Apostles , or Churches . All which is but multiplying lyes , and so not worth much speaking unto , but onely that People may see , how thou hast run out thy self till thou hast no order over thy tongue , nor over thy Pen , which hast been so long time , as above half a year , in adding lye , unto lye , to make a Defence for the Priests ; and so it appears that Truth will not defend them ; and thy Defence of lyes , will not long defend them ; for God will sweep away the refuge of lyes , and he that loveth and telleth a lye ( as thou hast done ) hath no part in the Kingdom of God . In page 94. thou accusest Sara Blackborow , as concerning a Woman speaking in the Church , as if she had said that the flesh was the Woman ; from which thou concludes , That then the flesh must be married to Christ , and so would make up absurdities from thy own words . Answ. This is thy Ordinary way of proving Errour , first to affirm a lye of thy own making , charging it upon another , and then draw a Conclusion , Answering this lye : but Sara Blackborow , nor any other of the Quakers , have ever said , that the flesh was the Woman : but that which Sara Blackborow said , was , That the flesh was to be silent , and that which spoke in thee , was that which was silly , and was ever learning ; but when any doth Pray or Prophesie , whether man or woman , and speak forth that which God hath made manifest ; that is , The Spirit of the Father in both , and is not to be quenched , for there is neither male nor female , but all is one in Christ and in the Spirit , from which Preaching and Prophesying proceeds ; and the Promise is , that daughters as well as sons shall Prophesie : And in the Church at Corinth they might all Prophesie one by one , that all might hear , and all might be edified ; but thou saist , Those women that did Prophesie , it was not in the Church ; Where then did they Prophesie , if not in the Church ? Or what was the Church ? For it is written , 1 Thes. 1. 1. That the Church is in God ; And where must a woman be when she Prayes or Prophesies , if not in the Church which is in God ? And where was it that Philips four Daughters prophesied , whether in the Church or out of it ? And where was it that that Priscilla did Minister , whether in the Church or out of it ? And Pheba , a servant of the Church , whether she might not Pray nor Prophesie in it ? And Priscilla , who was a helper of Paul in Christ , and laboured with him in the Gospel , Rom. 16. Might not Pray or Prophesie in the Church ? But now to speak the Truth in plainness to thee , that which thou Cavel'st against ; Is not the woman nor the man , simply considered , But it is the Spirit speaking in either , which thou cannot bear ; for where the Spirit of the Father speaks in man or woman , thou sets thy self against it to oppose it . And thou saist , Susan Bond said , Christ was the Husband , and of him they were to be taught ; and thou saist , Sara Blackborow did like the Answer well . Answ. Who could like it ill ? Was not that a good Answer ? And thou thy self must own Christ to be thy Teacher , and learn of him , before ever God will make use of thee in his service or work , though the Priests may make use of thee for their Defender . Again page 99. thou saist , We deny that any should either Rule in the Church , or have any Honour . Answ. No , we do not deny the Head of the Church , which is Christ , to Rule , and to have all the honour ; but we deny any Priest to bear Rule by his means , or to receive the Honour due unto Christ ; for we see they are such as seek Honour of one another , and not the Honour which belongs to God onely . Now whereas thou goes about to Vindicate , That wicked men may sing Psalmes ; and to prove it , makes this Argument , If any be merry , let him sing Psalms ; Now wicked men are merry as well as godly , though they haue no true cause , Ergo . page 87. Answ. This Logick doth but prove , thy own ignorance and darknesse , & not the thing intended by thee , as we shall shew ; but first to Answer thee with thy own contradiction ; Dost thou not say in the next words before this Argument , that the chief ground ( or cause ) is , the Moral duty lying upon all men by the commandment of God ? Now if wicked men , do sing Psalmes by the commandment of God , do they do it without a true cause ? Is not the Commandment of God , a true cause of any action to them which are commanded by him ? But in this thou art but building again that which thou hast destroyed , and so makes thy self a transgressor , and so let thy own confusion correct thee ; In the same page thou sayst , Thou wilt make good what thou hast written by Scripture ; Come then here we shall try thee ; Where in the Scripture dost thou prove , that wicked men may be merry and sing Psalmes , though they have no true cause ? but on the contrary hast thou not read in the Scriptures , Ps. 69. That David was the song of the drunkards : and if drunkards now in Taverns and Ale-houses say & sing , I am not puft in mind , I have no scornful eye ; and say , That as a weaned child they have behaved themselves ; by thy Argument , if they be never so wicked , yet , because they are merry in their wickedness , they may s●ng lyes in the Name of the Lord ; & by thy Argument be Justified , as men doing onely that which God had commanded them . And again thou maist read in Scripture . Joel 1. 5. that such wicked men and drunkards were called to weep and bowl , for their misery was coming upon them ; so the Prophet did not call them to sing Davids Psalms , because they were merry in their wickednesse , as thou hast done ; and again thou may read in Amos. 8. 3. That the songs of the Temple shall be turned into bowling , and these wicked men in the Temple were Merry , and by thy argument might sing Psalmes or spirituall Songs ; but the Prophet saith instead of singing they must bowl and come to bitter Lamentation ; & praise is not comely in the mouth of Fooles , as the wise man saith who is taught of God , but the mouth of a Fool poureth forth his folly , and the instruction of Fools is folly , Pro. 16. 22. And this Script●●●e we se fulfilled in thee ; for thy instructing of Fooles and wicked men , because they are merry in their wickednesse , they may sing Psalmes as a Command from God ; and herein I have answer'd a fool according to his foly , least he should be wise in his own conceit ; and although David calleth all Gods host , and all living things made and created to praise the Lord , the Sun , Moon , and Stars , the Heavens , and the Waters , the Earth , the Dragons and the Deeps , Fire , Haile , Snow , and Vapor , Stormes and Wind fulfilling his word , Mountains and Hills , and fruitfull Trees , all Beasts , Cattle , Creeping things , and flying Fowles , Kings of the earth , and all People , &c. And now as David was in the Covenant , he saw the Creatures as they stood in their Covenant , uncorrupted : and so in a fit capacity to praise the Lord , only man degenerated and unrestored again into the Covenant , he saw it was not comely for him to praise , nor to pray , nor to take Gods words in his mouth , nor to speak of his Statutes ; so far , from Justifying thy Argument , that wicked men because they are merry therefore may sing Psalmes , but when the Priests or people , takes notice of thy book , and what Logick thou hast learned to jutify the wicked in their Singing , as well as the godly , and how thou hast shamed both thy self and them , with such foolish confusion , and University Logick , its like they will set thee no more awork , to defend and vindicate them with such weapons . Again , page 89. thou saist , that it is said by the Prophet prov. 21. 4. that the ploughing of the Ploughman is sinn . Answ. Here thou hast belyed the Prophet , and perverted his words , as thou hast done the Quakers ; for the Prophers words is these , an high look , and a proud heart , and the ploughing of the wicked is sin ; but he doth not say that the ploughing of the Ploughman is sin ; But who can escape the envy of slandrous tongues , which accounteth lying no sin , if thereby they can accomplish their own wicked ends ? but the truth hath found thee out and made thee manifest , and the Priests had better a wanted thy defence , then to be so shamed by it ; as they will be , unless they deny both thee and it . Again , in the same page thou saist , to hear , read , pray , sing psalmes , and giving of thanks , they are works morally good being Commanded by the Lord ▪ but the person doing them , being not justified , they are not good to him : for whatsoever is not of Faith is sin . Answ. This is another piece of confusion , and charging of God foolishly and falsly , to say that the Lord commands those things to be done , and those he commands to do them , in doing of which it is not good to them but sin ; Where hast thou learned ? or where dost thou read of such a doctrine , that wicked men are commanded of God , to do such things , which in doing is not good to them but sin ? Is God or Christ then the Minister of sin , or commands a man to conmit sin ? Is not this Blasphemy & Error in the highest degree ? And how daest thou speak of God , or of his Commands , or of his Obedience , seeing thou thus Blasphems him in his Worship ? but this shall remain as a Testimony against thee ; many other lyes and abominations hast thou spoken against us , and against God and his Truth ; a few of which is sufficient to make thee manifest . In page ( 107. ) thou saist , our Quaking fits , many are of opinion that they are diabolicall , by a kind of witcheraft , and said , thou hast heard strange relations of Enchanted Ribbons , and giving drink after , &c. Answ. Upon the same account , many was of opinion , that Christ had a Devill , and was a Deceiver , and that the Apostles were Ring-leaders of Sects , & Heresyes , and such strange relations might have been heard concerning the Apostles in their dayes ; and it seemes to thee , that such reports is sufficient proofe , but this is contrary , to what thou hast said in an other place , that thou wouldst speake nothing , but according to what was written in the Scriptures ; And whereas thou tells of Enchanted Ribbons , Is there some Ribbons that are enchanted ? it may be thou meaneth enchanting Ribbons , but if so , where didst thou ever know such a thing , and for proofe , thou names Gilpin and Toldervyes books , which neither of them doth relate such a thing , so that it is thy enmity & wickednesse , for there was never any such thing among the Quakers , as giving Ribbans , and drink after ; but that charge thou might haue laid upon the Priests and their Defenders , for there are the most ribbons used & justified , till in pride they are become the Servants of the Devill , and there is the giving of drink one to another untill they be enflamed , and made unsensible of God and of his fear , by which they are enchanted , and bewitched , that they doe not obey the Gospell , but are given up to their owne hearts Lusts , and thereby are become the Servants of sin and so free from righteousnesse . Lastly , not only we , have been falsly accused in these and many other things by thee ; but even the spirit of God , which is the Fountain of cleannesse , is by thee charged and accused to be corrupt , an defiled page 33. by passing through mans corrupt nature ( thou saist ) becomes defiled . Answ. Is not this a sin against the holy Ghost , which shall never be forgiven , to charge the spirit to be corrupt and defiled ? And in this thou also chargeth both the Father , and the Son , to be corrupt & defiled , for they are one , so that if one of them be corrupt , the other is corrupt also , and as the spirit is in the Saints , so is the Father in them , and the Son , the hope of their glory , and none of them are defiled by mans corrupt nature . But there is that in man , by which that which corrupteth his nature is wrought out , so that man is made clean and undefiled by the spirit , and that spirit is not made corrupt and defiled by Man ; for that is contrary to the Scripture , to say , that by mans nature the spirit is defiled ; but to say , that by the spirit mans nature is cleansed , and sanctified , this is according to the Scripture : but it is the work of Sathan and his Messengers to Blasphem God in his Temple , and so account his spirit ( by which he leadeth into all truth ) an unholy thing ; and so thou art of the number of them , which account the blood , and Spirit of the Covenant an unholy thing ; and we seeing and knowing these things , as concerning our selves we are satisfied , because the Servant is not abo●e his Master ; for if the Master be called Belzebub , and the spirit a defiled or corrupt thing , well may wee be called Deceivers , ( although we be true ) and falsly accused with all manner of evil , according to our Masters words ; and these things we should bear in patience and silence , as to our selves , but as in respect unto others , we are constrained , by the uncorrupted and undefiled Spirit of the Lord , to testifie to the world , that their deeds are evil , and to manifest the workings of Sathan in the Mystery of Iniquity , which now already worketh in many , justifying the wicked , and condemning the Just , which is abomination to the Lord , which his Spirit will not bear unreproved ; and not onely the Just men are condemned and falsly accused , but also the Just undefiled , Eternal , and unerring Spirit , is accused by him , who makes a defence for the Priests in their unrighteous Practices and Wages ; so by the plain Evidence and Demonstration of Truth , he being made manifest to be an Enemy to God , and by his wicked works and words , I do Judge him not worthy of much more Answer to his Book ; and also I do Judge him not able to prove any of the false Accusations charged in it against us , some of which is herein returned unto him again , which when he doth but really weigh it and consider , it may be , he will sit down in silence , and wait , if there may be hope of his forgiveness for this ( not onely ignorance , but ) wilfulness , charging us , the Spirit of God , and his people , with that , of which they were never guilty ; for we are in the Truth , unto which every tongue shall confess , and by which every Opposer shall become silent before the Lord ; and in the Spirit of this Truth do we desire not the Di●●ruction , but the Repentance and Forgiveness of our Enemies ; And those that do abuse us and wrong us ignorantly , their sins will be sooner blotted out , then those who wilfully have set their hearts and tongues to work wickedness , for they shall receive the greater condemnation . The knowledge and life of truth , is that we desire all people may come into , that by it the power of the wicked one may be taken away , which so furiously worketh in the hearts of those , which receives not the Truth in the love of it , but brings forth floods of enmity & bitterness against the Lambs of Christ ; but the love of God which thinketh no evil , neither doth any unto another , is that which when it is felt & obeyed in all , will dry up those floods from off the face of the Earth , that there may be a place of Rest for the Redeemed and Elect Seed , who onely hath the Lord and his light for their habitation , and the Sword of the Spirit , which is the Word of God , for their Armour and Defence . THE END . 
A44834	----	An answer to a declaration put forth by the general consent of the people called Anabaptists in and about the city of London which declaration doth rather seem a begging of pardon of the Caveliers then [sic] a vindication of that truth and cause once contended for : I seeing so much wickedness ... / from a true lover and owner of the people called Quakers ... Richard Hubberthorn. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A44834 of text R16813 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing H3218). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 55 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 13 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A44834 Wing H3218 ESTC R16813 13623498 ocm 13623498 100861 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A44834) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 100861) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 791:20) An answer to a declaration put forth by the general consent of the people called Anabaptists in and about the city of London which declaration doth rather seem a begging of pardon of the Caveliers then [sic] a vindication of that truth and cause once contended for : I seeing so much wickedness ... / from a true lover and owner of the people called Quakers ... Richard Hubberthorn. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. Burrough, Edward, 1634-1662. Answer to a declaration of the people called Anabaptists. 24 p. Printed for Thomas Simmons ..., London : 1659. "The Baptists in their Postscript for a confirmation of a seal to their confusion, they have subscribed these names following, viz. Henry Jessey ... [et al.]" "An answer to a declaration of the people called Anabaptists," by E. Burrough: p. 12-24. Reproduction of original in Huntington Library. eng Jessey, Henry, 1603-1663. Anabaptists -- England -- London -- Early works to 1800. Toleration -- Early works to 1800. Society of Friends -- England -- London. A44834 R16813 (Wing H3218). civilwar no An answer to a declaration put forth by the general consent of the people called Anabaptists, in and about the city of London. Which declara Hubberthorn, Richard 1659 10812 5 5 0 0 0 0 9 B The rate of 9 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the B category of texts with fewer than 10 defects per 10,000 words. 2004-12 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-01 SPi Global Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-04 Judith Siefring Sampled and proofread 2005-04 Judith Siefring Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion AN ANSWER TO A DECLARATION Put forth by the general Consent of the People called ANABAPTISTS , In and about the CITY of LONDON . Which Declaration doth rather seem a begging of Pardon of the Caveliers , then a Vindication of that Truth and Cause once Contended for . I seeing so much Wickedness , Confusion , Fear and Unbelief in so small a thing in Vindication of themselves publickly to the Nation , it was upon me to Answer something to it ; and my end in so doing is rather to Instruct them , then to Shame them . From a true lover and owner of the People called Quakers , ( above all Flatterers ) because I see they have not bowed their knee to Baal , nor Worshipped the Power of the Beast under any diverse Colour whatsoever , but walks in that Righteousness which must establish the Nation , RICHARD HUBBERTHORN . The Baptists in their Postscript for a Confirmation or a Seal to their Confusion , they have subscribed these Names following , viz. Henry Jessey John Tombes Richard Wollaston Henry Tull William Kiffen William Warren John Battee John Clement Edward Cresset George Gospright John Sowden Benj. Hewlin Edward Harrison Samuel Tull Edward Green Edward Grainge Richard Dean Edward Roberts Henry Knollys John Spilsbury John Gosnold Samuel Stanton Thomas Cooper Henry Hills . London , Printed for Thomas Simmons , near Aldersgate , 1659. An Answer to a Declaration put forth by the general Consent of the People called Anabaptists , in and about the City of LONDON . FRiends , called Anabaptists , whereas you say , You are mis-represented to the Nation ; 1. As such as are opposite to Magistracy . 2. As such as would destroy the publick Ministry of the Nation , who differ from you in some things about Religion 3. That you do Countenance the People called Quakers in their irregular practice . 4. That you endeavour a Toleration of all miscarriages in things Ecclesiastical and Civil , under pretence of Liberty of Conscience . 5. That ye design to murther and destroy those that differ from you in matters of Religion , thereby endeavouring to make you odious to some people fearing God ; And also to incense the rude Multitude against you , to provoke them ( if possible ) to destroy you , &c. Unto the First of which you say , Though we cannot Answer in justification of every individual person that is of our Profession in matters of Religion ; yet we can say this , and prove it to all the world , that it hath been our Profession , and is our real practise , to be obedient to Magistracy in all things Civil ; and willing to live peaceably under whatever Government is or shall be established in this Nation : for we do believe and declare Magistracy to be an Ordinance of God , and ought to be obeyed in all lawful things . Answ. For you to give up your selves willingly and peaceably unto whatsoever Government is or shall be established in this Nation , without any limitation , and to submit unto any Power or Magistracy that doth or shall Rule , as the Ordinance of God , without any limitation or qualification , is far below that Spirit which was once in some of you in that Profession , for you have told of having the Lawes regulated according to the Scriptures , and of having Judges as at the first , and Counsellors as at the beginning ; and then not to submit to what Government soever , but that which is according to Equity and Justice . And what do you bear Arms or Fight for , if not for a Government according to Truth , and that Righteousness may establish the Nation ? Some have judged this to be the very Design and End of the War and Controversie against many that was Governours and Magistrates , and was by some called The Ordinance of God , and the higher Power ; And if now you resolve to live peaceably , and submit to whatever Government shall be established , then your Fighting is at an end : And if Charles Stuart come , or any other , and Establish Popery , and Govern by Tyranny , you have begged Pardon by Promising willingly to submit and live peaceably under it as the Ordinance of God . And if Jereboam come to Reign and set up Calves to worship , and cause the People to sin , yet you will submit and live peaceably and quietly under it , accounting it the Ordinance of God . And if a Pharaoh come to Rule , he that bears Rule must be counted a Magistrate , and a Magistracy must be accounted the Ordinance of God by you , and peaceably submitted unto ; and whatsoever Government they set up by their Act will be accounted lawful things , and you must submit to them , else you have proved your selves all Lyars ; but some did judge that ye had been of another Spirit . To the Second you say , As for the Publick Ministry of the Nation , who differ from us in the matter of Baptizing Infants , and some things in Church Government ; we are so far from endeavouring to destroy them , that we judge they ought to have the Liberty of their Conscience therein ; and that it is our duty to stand by them , and preserve them ( so much as in us lies ) from all injury and violence . Answ. It seems then that there is not so much difference betwixt them and you as will make them Antichristian and you Christian : and there is a near Complyance when as it is your duty to stand by them , and preserve them , while they are Baptizing Infants ; But can you stand by them and preserve them , and not tell them that it is Anti-christian , or contrary to the Scriptures ? And do you think that they will do as much for you , as to stand by you while you are plunging your Members in the Water ? And although you do so as you say , is not this Contradiction to your selves in what you say in the same Paper ? For do you not say , That you will not Tolerate any miscarriages in things Civil or Religious ; and whether is not this a miscarriage in things Religious to baptize Infants ? and whether do you not Tolerate this miscarriage in them , while you stand by to preserve them in it , as you say from injury and violence ? but who doth offer any violence to them which you are their guard against ? but the Priests will hardly believe you , and if they ever have power , that will not pardon you for so saying , and therefore you had better have been silent , then have shewed your weakness and ignorance for nothing . To the third you say , Concerning the people called Quakers , it is well known unto all , ( that are not wilfully ignorant ) there are none more opposite to their irregular practices then we are , nor are there any that they have exprest more contradiction to in matters of Religion then against us , though their provocation therein hath not put us in the least on a desire of depriving them of their just liberty , while they live morally honest and peaceable in the Nation . Answ. Is not this secret smiting without a cause ? what irregular practice is that which you accuse them of and will not mention ? is this honestly done ? what are they worse then the Episcopal Priests you mention to them , wherein they differ from you ? and why not to the Quakers ? is it enough for any man to believe that they are irregular , because you say so without any proof ? or dare you not mention wherein you judge it so , least they should disprove you ? but you say , there is not any they have expressed more contradiction to in matters of Religion , then against you . Answ. That is false , for they have more contradicted the common Priests of the Nation , as their books and sufferings will witness , although they have according to truth contradicted you , and also have more of your contradictions and confusions to declare concerning you , which is not yet published ; but what do you account their irregular practises ? is it because their yea is yea , and their nay is nay in all their communications ( and yours not so ? ) or is it because they cannot swear at all ? or is it because they cannot have any mans person in admiration because of advantage , or because they cannot respect the person of the rich , nor honour the person of the mighty ? is it because they do unto others as they would have others to do unto them , or because they speak the Truth every one to his neighbour without partialitie or hypocrisie ? or is it any thing relating to these things above named , if not , in your next mention in what , or else the wise in heart will judge you to speak onely from your imaginary conceit ? but what is your end in so secret smiting them ? do you think to excuse your selves by accusing them ? and who is it that doth charge you with countenancing the Quakers in their practises , either Regular or Irregular ? I know none that hath any ground so to charge you , but to men of understanding who can see beyond words , you rather appear to be begging a pardon of the Episcopal and Presbyter , and the wilde Boyes and Apprentices of London , by accusing the Quakers as hereafter will appear , and that fearfulness and unbelieving is entered into your hearts , and so your spirits is betrayed into a slavish fear , but if ever you be accepted or owned of God , you must own that for your strength which the Quakers live in , and if ever any Rule for God in this Nation , they must own that light , life and spirit which they are guided by , and then they will not despise , but have unitie with the Quakers . To the fourth you say , Whereas we are further charged with endeavouring an Vniversal Tolleration of all miscarriages both in things Religious and Civil , under pretence of Liberty of Conscience , it is in both respects notoriously false . And we do before the Lord , that shall judge both quick and dead , yea , before Angels and Men , declare our utter detestation of such a Toleration ; for in matters Civil , we desire there may not be the least Tolleration of miscarriage in any , much lesse in our selves . Nor do we desire in matters of Religion that Popery should be Tolerated , the blood of many thousands of the people of God having been barbarously shed by the Professors thereof , or any Persons tolerated that worship a false God , nor any that speak contemptuously and reproachfully of our Lord Jesus Christ , nor any that deny the Holy Scriptures , contained in the Books of the Old and New Testament , to be the Word of God ; and yet we are not against tolerating of Episcopacy , Presbytery or any stinted form ; provided they do not compel any others to a compliance therewith , or a conformity thereunto . For whatever composers of any form of worship , may possibly err , it is derogating from God , and his Holy Word , and injurious to men to compel any to the Practise thereof . Answ. What confusion is here , and contradiction both to your selves and to the example of Christ ? as to Religion you will not tolerate Popery , because the blood of many of the people of God have been barbarously shed by the Professors thereof , neither will you have any persons tolerated that worship a false God , nor any that speak contemptuously and reproachfully of the Lord Jesus Christ , nor any that deny the Holy Scriptures contained in the books of the old and new Testament to be the Word of God . And yet you are not against tolerating of Episcopacy , Presbytery or any stinted form ; why will you not tolerate Popery as well as Episcopacie ? hath not the Professors of Episcopacie murthered and slain , and do labour to murther and slay the people of God as well as the Papists ? and why will you tolerate the Common Prayer among the Episcopacie , and not the Mass among the Papists , seeing that the Mass was the substance out of which the Common-Prayer was extracted ? hear is nothing but partialitie , to tolerate one thing and not another of the same kind , and why will you not tolerate the persons of those that worship a false God , nor the persons that deny the Scriptures to be the word of God , nor the persons of those that speak contemptuously nor reproachfully of the Lord Jesus Christ . An. If you will not tolerate their persons , then you will murther or destroy their persons , and herein you have proved the accusation against you to be true , that you have a design to murther and destroy those that differ from you in matters of Religion ; as for instance , those that worship a false God , they differ from you in maters of Religion , and you will not have any of their persons Tolerated , then their persons must be destroyed for differing from you in matters of Religion ; and they that deny the Scripture ( that is the writings ) to be the Word of God ( that is to be Christ ) whose Name is called the Word of God , you will not tolerate their persons , then you will destroy them , because they differ from you in matters of Religion , and those that speak reproachfully of Jesus Christ , you will not tolerate their persons , then you will destroy their persons , because they differ from you in matters of Religion ; and thus having contradicted your selves , you have also contradicted the example of Christ , for he came among those that worshipped false Gods , even Stocks and Stones , and Graven Images , the works of mens hands , and he was not against tolerating their persons , neither came he to destroy mens lives because of such things , but had a Gospel to Preach unto them , whereby they might learn to know the living God , and turn from dumb Idols , and those that spoke Reproachfully against him , and said he had a Devil , yet he was not against Tolerating their Persons , but Preached the Kingdom of God to them , and did bid them seek it and the Righteousness thereof ; and told them that the Kingdom of God was within them ; and he was among such as denyed that there was a God , or Christ , Resurrection , Angel or Spirit ; and this is more then to deny the Scriptures to be the Word of God , which indeed is words and not the Word . And Christ was not against Tolerating of any of the Persons , as you have express'd your selves to be , and so shewed forth a murthering Spirit ; but seeing that you will not have any Person Tolerated that worships a false god , what must be done with their Persons ? But what difference is there ( in the Ground or Cause of Toleration ) between those that Worship a false god , or they which Worship the true God in a false way ? and if the Persons of neither of those should be Tolerated , then the Toleration would but reach a little Compasse : But who must be Judge of that Blasphemie , Contempt , or Reproach spoken against the Lord Jesus Christ ? Was it not Blasphemie in the Apostles dayes , for one to say he was a Jew , and was not , Revelations 2. verse 9. And is it not as great Blasphemy now to say that he is a Christian , or a Believer , that is not ? And must not any person be tolerated that speak such works ? And must not such a Person be tolerated that denies the Scriptures to be the Word of God ? then it appears they must not be tolerated that faith , in the beginning was the Word , as John 1.4 . Nor that say that Christ is the Word , and that the Scriptures are they which testifieth of him , as Joh. 5. And if we search out your toleration to the bottom , it will be reduced into this compasse , That none shall be tolerated but those that say as you say , and professe what you professe ; and you among your selves are as a Kingdom divided that cannot stand , and you are not they which are fit to Rule in the Nation to prescribe Liberty nor give Toleration ; but if you had been of Christs Spirit , you would have professed Toleration , and not destruction unto all Persons in matters of Religion , and then they that have the Gospel of Christ may minister it freely among those that worship a false god , and among those that worship the true God ignorantly , and minister it among the Papists , Episcopal & Presbyterie , Heathens , Turks and Pagans , which are all out of the way , and so to convince the gain-sayers , so that all the wicked impositions , cruelty , Persecution and killing one another about Religion would cease , and then the Gospel of Peace which is the power of God would Rule over deceit , and Truth and Righteousness would increase and spread over the Nations ; but you have appeared to be of a Spirit of Confusion and Contradiction ; for when you have spoken against Tolerating the Persons before mentioned ; Yet you say ( in Contradiction to it ) you are not against Tolerating Episcopacie , Presbyterie , or any stinted Form , provided they do not Compel any others to a Compliance therewith , or Conformitie thereunto , &c. Now consider , and let even your own foolishness correct you ; Is not the Papists which ye have excepted against , a stinted Form ? And are not those that worship a false god , a stinted Form ? And are not the Sadduces that deny that there is either God , Christ , Angel , Resurrection or Spirit , a stinted Form ? And is not the Jewes a stinted Form although they speak contempteously of the Lord Jesus Christ , which before you have said you will not Tolerate their Persons because they speak contempteously of the Lord Jesus Christ ; and now you say you will Tolerate , because they are a stinted Form : How must the Jewes be Converted who have spoken contempteously and reproachfully of the Lord Jesus Christ , calling him a Deceiver , a Blasphemer , and that he ●ad a Devil , seeing you will not Tolerate their Persons until they be Converted ? And how shall the Heathens that worship false gods be Converted , seeing their Persons must not be Tolerated ? And what must be done with those many hundreds of Congregations in England which worship God in the Spirit , and yet do deny the Scriptures ( as Words and Writings ) of the Old and New Testament to be the Word of God , but do confesse them to be a Testimony of the word , and of him who is the Beginning and End of the Words , in whom , and by whom they all come to be fulfilled to the Saints , What must their Persons be done with , seeing they must not be Tolerated ? But you may say , That those things was spoken in your haste , or at least in your fear , whereby you were surprized in the Vproar of the rude Boyes and Apprentices of London ; but a little fear entering into the Hypocrisie doth try your Spirits , and cause you to bring forth the intents of your hearts , as in your Paper is manifest . To the Last you say , Forasmuch as we are Charged to Murder and Destroy those that Differ from us in matters of RELIGION , We do not only abhor and detest it , as a cursed practice ; but we hope have approved our selves , both in this City and the Nation to the contrary , notwithstanding the great provocation of some , who have endeavoured our Ruine . For that we desire is just liberty to men , as men ; that every man may be preserved in his own just rights ; and that Christians may be preserved as Christians , though of different Apprehensions in some things of Religion ; in the prosecution whereof , our lives shall not be dear unto us , when we are thereunto lawfully called : The Designs of our Adversaries in these Calumnies are to mis-represent us to some People fearing God ; and also to incense the rude Multitude against us , purposely to provoke them ( if possible ) to destroy us . Answ. In what you have before expressed , you have more given then taken away the occasion of this Charge against you , by your instancing the not Tolerating of such persons before mentioned ; for if you did ( as you say ) desire the just Liberty of men as men , then every man without respect to Apprehensions , Perswasions or Worships , as a man and person should be Tolerated , that those who are Christians might inform them of the true God when they worship false gods ; and hereby you give great occasion unto those that seek occasion from you , when you with a general Consent cry against Tolerating the Persons of so many sorts of People about Differing from you in Religion ; and as for some of them whom ye would accuse as Irregular , many by experience can witnesse , That neither Weapon nor Tongue formed against them can prosper ; and the time may come when you may be glad to be upholden with a little of their strength , and not to Reject those whom God hath , doth , and will own for his People in the middest of their Enemies ; for God hath made them even as Eyes to behold the Spirits of men , and the Changings of their wayes , and to give them a Reproof in due season when they darken wisdom and confound their matter by words without knowledge , in false fears and haste when they are out of Patience , and out of Faith in God , as the Baptists here have done , and the fearful and unbelieving cannot accomplish the Righteousnes of God , neither will he bring forth his intended Work by them ; but such as are of a true Spirit , that looks onely at the Glory of God and setting up of his truth , who are come to the spiritual weapons , & doth not wrestle with flesh and blood , but with the powers of darkness and with Spiritual wickednesse , and such as are not false Accusers of others , but seeks the good of all men , such will the Lord honour and exalt in his work , and they shall perfect his praise . So Friends , You have been hasty to utter words before the Lord , for which his Reproof justly comes upon you ; Therefore let your words be few , and mind the fear of the Lord God which is the beginning of wisdom , and that will slay your false fears , from which unsavoury & unsound words hath proceeded ; for your Religion is vain while your tongue is not bridled , for it is better to be still and keep silence , then to utter words from the line of Confusion ( that is stretched over you ) thereby to get a name in the Earth , which Line all people walk in , but those who are led by the Spirit of God to speak words that cannot be condemned , for it is the Spirit of the Lord God and his Power which must slay the Enmitie in you which is the ground of your prejudice and hard Speeches against the Lambs of Christ , which when that is slain within , then those evil Fruits of the Lips will cease without , and then the fountain of life will open in you which brings forth Fruits of another nature ; and when the Fruits of your Lips is Truth , Rightteousness , and Peace , then will you have followship with the Father and the Son , and with us who walk in his Light . AND whereas to the said Declaration of the Baptists , something was Written in Answer to part of it in short by another hand , not knowing the one of the other , but being found to be both of service as to return their wickednesse upon themselves , it is thought meet that the same also be hereunto annexed ; And here is also something in Answer to some particular Positions drawn up by the Independants , so called , wherein their folly and weaknesse is also discovered , and all may see what enmity lodges in the hearts of all men against the despised people called QUAKERS . An Answer to a Declaration of the People called Anabaptists , in and about the City of London , wherein their weakness and ignorance is discovered under their own Hands to the City and Nation , as hereby may appear . FRiends , Whereas your Declaration consisteth of Five Particulars , four , of which is not or so much concernment to me to Answer ; but as for one of them , for the Nations sake , and for the Truths sake , and that you may be reproved even you the heads and Principal men of your congregations , and because you are such under whose hands your Declaration passeth , therefore in that consideration with many others , this I return as an Answer to you , and to the City and Nation , in pursuit of yours that hath proceeded from a heart of Unbelief , and unto evil and malicious intents against a despised People whom the Lord hath owned , and will own though you and the whole world do reject them . And whereas you say , You are mis-represented to the Nation , that you do countenance the People called Quakers in their Irregular Practice ; And to clear yourselves you say , It is well known to all there are none more opposite to their Irregular Practises then we are , ( say you ) nor are there any that they have exprest more contradiction to then against us , though their provocation therein hath not put us on a desire ( say you ) of depriving them of their just Liberty while they live Morally honest and peaceable in the Nation , &c. Answ. Oh ye Heads and principal men , and ye chief Pastors , Elders , and Members ( so called ) of Churches , What have ye done ? and wherefore have you thus proceeded , why have ye renounced an innocent People that never did you harm , nor ever gave any offence unto you , saving in crying against the deadnesse of your forms and traditions , and seeming Religious practises , and reproving evil in you ; Alas for you ( ye accounted wise men ) do you judge an advantage will be unto your selves in this thing ? Or do you think to work a disadvantage unto us by your Renouncing and denial of us ? I must tell you , we are not troubled hereat for our own sakes , neither is any part of our hope or confidence concerning you made void , for we never looked upon some of you to be otherwise then our enemies in your hearts . Oh ye Hipocrites whom God will judge because of your hypocrisie , who now so much as in you lies ( if it were in your power ) you would leave us to the mercilesness of cruel men , you would save your selves , and leave us to the mercy of the Devil ; but though you renounce us , yet the Lord hath owned us , and will own us to your grief ; and what are you become our accusers ? are you become chargers of us with irregular practise ? are you endeavouring to make us more odious in the eyes of wicked men then we are for righteousness sake ? but wherefore have ye done this ? Is it to save your selves from reproaches ? Have you therefore reproached us , and have you sought to make us vile that your selves might appear free ? and have you thought to gain the favour of the wicked , & to make a peace with your Enemies by reviling of us unto them ? Is this your end , O ye Dissemblers , to reproach us to the Nation and City behind our backs ? You Church Members so called ) and Teachers , and Pastors , and Principal men that would save your selves and gratifie the Devil and joyn in union with the wicked , and make your selves friends with them by slandering and renouncing the peaceable people , who are more so then your selves , and none of them guilty of ●rregularitie as much as some of you ; though you would fawn upon the Nation and City by renouncing of us , as if we were irregular and so and so ; But do you think the Nation and City have not taken notice ? or however hereby they may . What if I say unto them and you , that none of the Quakers ever were so instrumental by illegal opposition , for the turning out of Parliaments and changing the Government of this Nation into confusion , like as some of you Anabaptists have been ; and this the City and Nation may take notice of the irregularitie of some of your selves , who have been instrumental even by illegal Opposition , and perfect Tyrannie in mens account , and Treacherie also to the turning out Parliaments , and thereby wronging the Nation for their own advantages ; so that the practise of some of you hath been more unlawful and con●●●rie to Law then ours hath been , and the City and Nation may take notice of it ; as your Declaration is to them , so is this my Answer ; never any Quaker ( so called ) in War-like posture hath stood in Defiance , and been instruments to turn out peoples lawful Representatives ; Did not some of your brethren , even of the Anabaptists , take Commission from the late Parliament , and no lesse then vowing Fidelity to them , and yet presently rising in opposition to them , and turning them out of Doors ? and was not this treachery and hypocrisie , and irregularitie ? And can the Nation charge any of them called Quakers with any such work ? no they cannot ; but some of the Anabaptists they may , even with this and other the like illegal dealing ; And more I might instance , and not only charge behind your backs falsly as you have done of us , but I may affirm to your faces , and justly prove these and such things upon you ; but why have not you named what irregular practise the Quakers are guilty of ? I charge you you subscribers against us , and accusers of us to prove your accusation , I say I charge you before the Lord and this whole Nation and City to prove your accusation , and to instance what particular practises performed and owned amongst us , either in Relation to just Government in Church or State that are irregular , and you shall have a Reply , though you say , There are none more Opposite to our irregular practice then you are . Oh how fain would you flatter and fawn upon our Enemies to make peace with the Devil ; how would you creep by craft and joyn into a League with our and your Enemies ? And how fain would you be at peace with them and leave us even to their mercilesness if it were in your power ? Have we ever dealt thus by you ? Have we ever sought to render you Rebels and Traytors to the Nation as you in effect have done to us ? have we ever sought occasions against you , and to present you to the Nation as vile as we could for to save our selves , and leave you to the wil of your Enemies ? this have you done to us , and we leave you to be rewarded even by the Lord who will never renounce us , nor cast us out , though you do in such a time as this , a time of confusion and distraction , wherein if the Lord did not appear to be our Defence more then men , we should be swallowed up of our Enemies ; and must you , even a Separate People , Members , Pastors and Ministers of Churches ( so called ) Renounce us at this season , on purpose to have us destroyed so much as you may ? Well , we have not dealt so with you , neither do we desire to uncover your nakedness to the Nation , you had not had thus much if you had not been the occasion of it your selves ; and surely what you have done in this particular , some of your own Members will not accept it from you with thanks to you ; but I shall say more to you , when I have under all your Hands the particular Practises which you charge to be irregular ; and though there hath been and is Contradictions between us and you in matter of Religion , and difference in particular Practises about Church and Ministry , and Orders , &c. Yet what is this ? This was amongst our selves , though hereof you have no reason to boast , as of any Victory that you have obtained over us in any such Controversie , neither hath the Spirit of God so appeared in that Authority among you , as that you have gained any from us to you , but rather the contrary ; but what of these Contentions ? we have never so contended with you , as that we have hated your persons , or sought to betray you into the hands of devouring mouths , the Lord is our witness in this , though you have done contrary ( even sought to betray our persons in this your work ) and I must tell you dishonestly and undiscreetly have you done in this matter , who never could unto this day in any contest between us about Religious matters Convince us of Error or Irregular practises , though now you have accused us to the whole Nation , and not as in a way of Debate about Religion , but as in matter of State Irregularity ; whereby plainly appears that you seek to betray us , even our persons into the hands of our merciless enemies , and you would make peace with them , and deliver us into their merciless hands ; and thereby shewed hatred , not unto us as upon the account of Religion only , but even hatred to our persons , and hath accused us as of personal irregularitie ; and so hath not shewed love to our persons , but rather sought our destruction : Oh ye wicked men to whose charge God shall lay this iniquity of treachery and unfaithful dealing to us , even as with brethren , which is the most deceitful iniquity . And alas for you , what are your desires of depriving us of our just Liberty ? God shall give us Liberty , and from him we shall enjoy it whether you will or no ; and for our just liberty we shall not be beholding to you , though I must tell you , if our Liberty were in your power it is greatly to be doubted , and even your own dealing in this your Declaration gives occasion For it , that our Liberty would be enslaved if it were in your hands , but we bless the Lord it is in his hand & not in yours ; for so much of Treachery towards us hath here appeared , even in giving us up ( so much as in you is ) to the will of our Enemies , and the Spirit is in you which would betray Brethren , that for the time to come we can never Trust you ; but we do not give our Power to you to enjoy our Liberty from you , nor ever shall ; And if we walk Moraly honest and peaceable in the Nation , it is more then you do in this matter , for this your practise is not Morally honest in Accusing of us behind our backs to the Nation , and City , and Authorities thereof of Irregularity , &c. though as I have said never any of us had so great a hand by open opposition tending to make war in the Nation as some of you in some things I might instance , even for their sakes to whom you have accused us , and that we are more peaceable then some of your selves the Nation and City knows ; Have we thrust our selves into Arms , and sought Offices and Places , and Commands as some of you ? Have ever any of us appeared in Actual Arms against Parliament & Nation as some of you ? Have we given the City or the Nation by any visible appearance to fear a war from us , as you have done ? Let the Nation & City , & the witness in all mens Consciences judge ; so that we are known to be peaceable as much or more then your selves , for we have never sought to you to take up Arms with us , as some among you have sought to others , which may demonstrate that we are as peaceable in the Nation , if not more then you ; and so you needed not to have premised such a thing on our behalf . And thus I have in short returned your secret Treachery upon {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} own heads , and Answered that same part of your Declaration wherein I and the Truth , and the whole flock of God was any way concerned ; and as for the rest of your Declaration I will not seek Occasions against it , though in some other things also therein exprest , I might search out your Hearts , and discover the rottenness of them ; and where you say you declare Magistracy to be an Ordinance ; &c. might not I tell the Nation and City that you are not content with Magistracy , except of your own Sect ; And might not I say , Why were not you contented with that Assembly of men that last Sat ? And wherefore was it that you even some of you Anabaptists were the chief Instruments with Swords in your Hands to Dissolve them , and so were Instruments in bringing the Nation into present confusion . And whereas you speak of the publick Ministers of the Nation , you are far from endeavouring to destroy them ( say you ) and it is your duty to stand by them and preserve them from all violence and injury , &c. To which I answer , What are you about to make a League and a Covenant with Antichrist ? Have you for these many years been opposing them in words , and are you now recanting of what you have done when you are sensible of a danger upon you ? and will you now bind your selves to stand by them and preserve them from all injury , and even as they are Ministers too ? But let me ask you , Do you look upon them to be Ministers of Christ , or of Antichrist ? If true Ministers of Christ , wherefore do you oppose them and cry against them in your Pulpits , and hath formerly your selves and some of your Brethren yet do publickly oppose them both by word and writing , Oh! ye hypocrites . But if they are Ministers of Antichrist , then how is it that you will stand by them and preserve them as such , and would bind it upon them as their duty to stand by and preserve you ? Is not this a League with Hell and Death ? are you turned backwards into love and affection towards them again , and so lost your former Principles ? And is your Zeal quite grown cold , or are you now onely flattering and dawbing with the Ministers , because you see danger from them , while you seek but greater advantage against them ? they may indeed tell you they look upon you as not destroyers of their wayes and practises , neither to ease the Nation from any burthen which they have laid upon it ; for it is manifest though you deny them in some particulars some of you , yet you can cry against that in some of them , and yet uphold the same thing ; I may lawfully instance that some of your Brethren , some in this Nation , and some in Ireland takes or have lately taken Tithes for Preaching , and have yearly stipends , and so much by the year out of the States Treasure for Preaching , 100 l. 200 l. and 300 l. a piece by the year , which indeed doth shew that you are not intending to destroy their oppressing and abominable practises , but the rather that you would turn them out of great Places and Benefits , and turn your selves in ; Oh! deceit and wickedness which I am forced to lay open upon this occasion of your own just provocation hereunto ; and as for their preserving you and you them against such as do oppose you , they may easily joyn with you in this , if they could hope in your faithfulness , for some of you and your Members have shewed as much enmity , have been open Persecutors , even as they and their Members have been , and your Members have been sending the People of God to Prison , and persecuting them even as the Common Priests of the Nation : and you appear to be guided by the same spirit in many things , and if they be Antichristian in their wayes and practises , its sure that you are not of Christ , because you are like unto them in nature . And in that you say , you would have none tollerated in their Religion that deny the Scriptures to be the Word of God , but you would tollerate Episcopacy , Presbytery or a stinted form , &c. say you . To which I say , I know that spirit which you are of , if it had its full Authority would tolerate none but your selves , for your spirit in nature differs not from the spirit of the Church of Rome ; And what are you now for tollerating Episcopacy , who were once your selves ( in your Zeal for God , when your sincerity was not darkned , nor your hearts so much corrupted through places of honour , and through such things as now they are ) Instruments to the pulling down of Episcopacy , and will you now tollerate it again , and help to set it up , and build what you have destroyed , as if you recanted of what you had done , but plainly shewing that you are not of the same Spirit that once you were of , but have lost sincerity , and can embrace Idolatry , for once ye were the men that did oppose it , and did violently help to pluck it down ; but now you are for tolleration . Oh! unconstant men this is to you , not herein discovering my Judgement in the case , and if Episcopacy , why may not Popery be tollerated ? seeing they are one and the self same in ground and nature , and not much different in appearance , and you may agree to tollerate a stinted form in others , because your selves are in a stinted form also ; for what is yours else but a form , crying up your water and bread and wine , and differing from the world onely in these outward things , when as the City and Nation knows you are men as covetous , as worldly minded , as ambitious , as self-seeking of honour and places as any others in the Nation , and your Religion appears to be a ●tinted form as much as others ; Alas poor men , you have discovered your hearts in your Declaration , and according to the corruption thereof I cannot but answer you ; and there are some that deny the Scriptures to be the Word of God , and say they are the Words of God , and a Declaration , and a Treatise of what the Saints believed and enjoyed ; and Christ is the Word of God , that may in time to come be tollerated in their Religion in this Nation , though you have renounced them : but while they are owned and regarded of the Lord , they respect not your love nor hatred who are mortal men , and your breath in your nostrils , and must fall and perish as the dung in all your beauty , and your profession of Religion , before the coming of the Son of God . And in your Post-script you say , you have under your hands sent forth your Declaration in behalf of your selves , and others of your Judgement ; but I must tell you , I do believe there are some even of those called Anabaptists which will reject your work , and to them my answer is not , for I spare them : but to you fearful hypocrites in a time of danger , that have in this juncture of time renounced us without ground or reason in the sight of God , but for your ends , as if you would gain the favour of the Nation and City by denyal of us , and looking upon your selves to be reproached because of us , when as you are a company of unworthy men , even unworthy of our reproaches , and to escape them have denied us , as seeming to clear your selves , but you are deceived in this matter , and it shall turn to work against you in the Nation , and in the City ; for we have a more surer witness in their Consciences , even in the Consciences of all people that we are of God , then you have ; for take but away your outward water , and bread and wine , and some few outward practises , & what do you differ from the worst sort of men in the Nation ; for doth not pride and hypocrisie , and self-love , and covetousness , and the love of this world abound amongst you , as much as amongst any others ? the witness in peoples Consciences knows it , which shall be a witness for us and against you . You may indeed have gained League with the worst sort of men in the Nation , but you have not gained the sincerity in people , and while we have that on our side to witness for us , take you the rude multitude , for we are not discouraged at all concerning this thing , but the rather do glory in the Lord though we be denied of all , for though men forsake us , yet the Lord careth for us ; and your own doing shall return upon your own heads : and thus much is sufficient to the substance of your Declaration , and if I receive any reply , I shall expect it under the hands of you all , that I may further search and discover you unto your selves , and to the Nation . And whereas there is a Manuscript goes aboad , consisting of five Particulars , which is said that it was delivered in to the Committee of Safety , as Advice and Councel to them : but who the Authours of it are is something uncertain , but certain it is , that some of the called Independant Ministers and Pastors were the chief Promotors of it , and in the Coppy which was delivered to my hands , it is said , These five Particulars were the result of a little Synod made up of Presbyterians , Independants and Anabaptists ; but whether it is so or no I leave that , and would say something to some of the Particulars , and even to the Committee of Safety and Officers of the Army , and all others of the Nation for their better information , then the same Paper describeth to them . The third Particular consisteth about the Magistrates Power in matters of Faith and Worship , and the Authours say , Though they greatly prize Christian Liberty , yet they profess utter dislike and abhorrency of an Vniversal toleration , as being contrary to the mind of God in his Word . Answ. It appears the Authours are lovers of themselves , and prizers of their own Liberty , but not of the Liberty of others , but do utterly dislike and abhor the Toleration of others , which may indeed be more righteous then themselves , and this is no less then the very Principle of the Whore of Rome , which Promotes her own Liberty and makes others slaves , and abhors Toleration to any but themselves ; and they plead Scriptures as well as you for proof of their Religion , and they will say all that differs from them are contrary to the Scriptures , even as you say , when as there is very little better foundation in the Scriptures for your Religion then there is for theirs ; and it is doubtful to many what Religion this day extant is perfectly according to the Scriptures ; but yet thus much may be said , that Church and that Religion which are not in the same Spirit as gave forth the Scriptures , are not according unto the Scriptures , and he that can distinguish of this , and who it is that hath the same Spirit that gave forth the Scriptures , are onely able to Judge what Religion is according to the Scriptures ; But can the Authors shew plainly out of the Scriptures that their Religion is onely according thereunto , and all others the contrary ? and until they prove this , why may not the Rulers that are or may be in this Nation , give Toleration unto other sorts of people as well as to the Independants the supposed Authours of this Paper ? The fourth Particular consisteth concerning Tithes , and say they , The taking away of Tithes for Maintenance of Ministers , until as full a Maintenance be as equally secured and as legally setled , tends very much to the distruction of the Ministry , and Preaching of the Gospel in these Nations . Answ. Alas for you poor ignorant Creatures , ye foolish men , that seems to have no understanding of the Ministry and Gospel of Christ ; Do you indeed think that the true Ministry of Christ and the Preaching of the Gospel depends upon Maintenance by Tithes ? Oh! ye Robbers of God , who have secretly dishonoured him in your hearts , and publickly disgraced him as much as in you lies to the Nation , as if he were not able to save his Ministrie and the Preaching of his Gospel from destruction if Tithes be taken away ; Surely , you err in your Judgements , and have no acquaintance with God , nor with his Ministry nor Gospel ; who have thus dishonoured him in setting up that Maintenance by the forcible and unjust oppression of Tithes , to be the preserving of Ministry and Gospel , and as if Tithes were the upholding of Ministry and Gospel ; and you have thus falsly and wickedly measured God , his Ministry and Gospel , by the wickedness of your own hearts , who seems to be indeed of those Hirelings that cheats Souls for money , and runs for the gift like Baalam , and for the lucre like the evil beasts and slow bellies ; and so I do believe that your false Ministrie indeed and your feined pretence of Preaching the Gospel doth depend upon great sums of money and upon large maintenances , & we believe that indeed is the chief Reason of your Preaching and of your Ministry , and it is very possible that your Ministry and Preaching may fall which is Antichristian , when Tithes and Hire is taken away , which Ministry dependeth thereupon , but the true Ministry and Preaching of the Gospel will God maintain and uphold 〈…〉 of Tithes being vanquished , and I hope some of the Rulers of this Nation and officers of the Army will not believe your advice ; But yet you seem to be willing to renounce Tithes if you could have as full a maintenance setled another way , so that however great maintenance comes , you regard not , so you can have that , whether by this way of oppression or the other , it s your maintenance you love and followes after , and seekes unto the Powers of the Earth for that end ; and how equally and Legally Tithes have been setled which you seem to affirm , let all good People judge ; given they were , and setled first in our Nation , by the Popes Authoritie , to be the maintenance of that Whores Ministers , and all the Laws which gave them and setled them have been Antichristian and oppression in the Nation , and there is the guilt of blood and of cruel unjust sufferings lying upon this Nation in that very cause of Tithes , and the hand of the Lord is gone out against it , and against all contenders for it , and God will redeem the Nation from under it , though you be putting your strength to uphold it through your Hypocritical Prayers and Preaching and flatteries with God and men . The fifth particular is , these Authors desire that countenance be not given unto nor trust reposed in the hands of Quakers , being persons of such Principles that are destructive to the Gospel and inconsistent with peace and civil society . Answ. Here your wickedness and the malice of your hearts is let forth against the despised People , for their righteousness sake ; & this spirit of yours would not onely discountenance them but destroy them from the face of the earth , if it were in your hands , and you are worse then Baalam ever was , and far more blind then he , for you are as it were seeking inchantments against the People of God for money , and you see not the goodly tents of Jacob as he did , nor the People that are altogether blessed ; Oh! ye envious persons that are even a preparing as much as in you is the destruction of a peaceable People , and that would keep them in slaverie under you , and you would have the countenance of the Powers of the earth , but they must not , and you would monopolize all the places of trust for advantage to your selves , and you would hardly allow the People of God a place on the ground ; Oh! ye sinful hypocrites and flatterers and slanderers of the just , but what need you have made such preparation against them , do they seek places of honour among you , do they delight in great places among men ? do they love to be great in this world ? nay their Kingdom is from above , and they reject the countenance of the Beasts Authority , and they reject any confidence that the dragon and unjust powers can repose in them , and you need not have been afraid in this matter , and thereupon slandered us , and have back-bited us to the Powers of the earth ; what do you fear ? Even the thing which you fear will God in a Judgement bring upon you , and there is a Government to be set up in this Nation , even that which is of the Lamb ; and your Antichristian Monarchy the Beast with all his Heads and Horns shall fall to the ground , and the Lord may bring your fear upon you to your utter confusion , though you are making defences all that you can for your selves and your Kingdom , and this seems to be a day wherein every mans heart is tryed , and every man and sort of People is pouring forth the malitiousness of their hearts against the poor People in scorn called Quakers ; what say the Papists and Episcopal men ? Quakers are a new Sect and deceivers , &c. and what say the Presbyterians and the Independants of them ? Oh! they are Seducers , they are Witches , they are false prophets , they are Vagabonds not worthy of countenance , &c. nor any place of trust in the Nation , &c. What say the Anabaptists of them ? O they are Blasphemers and Hereticks and irregular Persons and distructive to Gospel , &c. This and such like is the cry of these and all sorts of People against the poor dispised People whom the Eternal God hath made dreadful unto them all , who shall be the Rod in his hand to break them and confound them , and utterly to destroy their Antichristian Kingdom ; for they are beloved of the Lord though hated of all men , and though the whole body of the Beast and Antichrist and every Horn of his Head do set themselves to War against the Lamb and his followers , and though all these sorts of People mentioned and some others do at this very day pour out their fury and malice against this People , yet shall they not be confounded , for their trust is in the living God , and as sure as the Lord lives , the fear that People have of the prosperity of this People shall come upon them , and without Weapon or Arm of flesh , or the multitude of an Host of men will their God dash their Enemies to pieces ; and all ye Sects whatsoever that are risen in opposition against us , what do we regard your fury and madness against us ? What do we fear your revilings , you uncircumcised Philistines , we mock at your terrour , and we reject your strength as the strength of a straw , we dispise your Authority which is not of God , as the Authority of so many Bryars and Thorns , we can glory over you in the Lord , what are you , and from whence did you come , is not Babylon your City ? and is not the great Whore your Mother , and the Mother of Harlots your Nurse ? And what is your growth but even like the grass of a Summers growth that 's soon cut down and withered , and like the leaf of a Summer tree that utterly perisheth in Winter ? The mighty day of the Lord is at your door , confusion is begun amongst you , and the sword of one may destroy another , and the strength of one shall rear another , and the remnant that is left shall be destroyed , and we must overcome them without Sword or carnal Weapon , and this shall come to pass in a day ; and the eye that is yet blind shall see it , and the child that is yet undelivered shall be a Conquerour over the Beast , and over his Image , and over all you false Sects , and over every Horn that is risen up in envy against the Lamb and his followers , the time of the Lambs Kingdom is at hand , behold , behold ye mountains of the earth , the sentence of Eternal vengeance will pass upon you , ye Hypocritical Professors ; ye Pastors , Elders , Members and Ministers of Churches ( so called ) the Decree of the Almighty is coming out against you , you have provoked him by your wickedness towards him and his People , even to the destruction of your own selves ; wherefore tremble before the Lord , for his dread and the weight of his hand shall be upon your Consciences . Oh Nation , mourn over thy iniquities which have provoked God against thee , and if men turn not unto him , his sore Judgment will be upon thee , we are not for this party or the other , neither do we justifie one side in opposition to another , for we see the earth is corrupted , and all sorts of men that are this day striving one sort , against another , are in a wrong way and in a wrong spirit , and we cannot side with any of them , but we rather mourn over the Nation who is torn in pieces by the Ambitious spirit of her pretended Rulers , and we desire the repentance of all , and not the destruction of any , and we are for Gods part and not for men . E. BVRROVGH . THE END . 
A44835	----	Antichristianism reproved, and the doctrine of Christ and his apostles justified against swearing in answer to John Tombe's six propositions for the lawfulness of swearing : all which propositions are both against Christ and his apostles doctrine, as is here proved according to the Scriptures ... / by Richard Hubberthorn. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A44835 of text R4447 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing H3219). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 51 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 13 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A44835 Wing H3219 ESTC R4447 12895721 ocm 12895721 95177 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A44835) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 95177) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 384:18) Antichristianism reproved, and the doctrine of Christ and his apostles justified against swearing in answer to John Tombe's six propositions for the lawfulness of swearing : all which propositions are both against Christ and his apostles doctrine, as is here proved according to the Scriptures ... / by Richard Hubberthorn. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. 23 p. [s.n.], London : 1660. Reproduction of original in British Library. eng Tombes, John, 1603?-1676. -- Serious consideration of the oath of the king's supremacy. Oaths -- Biblical teaching. Oaths -- England. A44835 R4447 (Wing H3219). civilwar no Antichristianism reproved, and the doctrine of Christ and his apostles justified against swearing. In answer to John Tombe's six proposition Hubberthorn, Richard 1660 10131 16 15 0 0 0 0 31 C The rate of 31 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the C category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2004-12 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-01 SPi Global Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-04 Emma (Leeson) Huber Sampled and proofread 2005-04 Emma (Leeson) Huber Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion Antichristianism REPROVED , And the Doctrine of Christ and his Apostles justified against SWEARING . IN Answer to John Tombe's six Propositions for the lawfulness of Swearing : All which Propositions are both against Christ and his Apostles Doctrine , as is here proved according to the Scriptures : For the satisfaction of all tender Consciences . By Richard Hubberthorn . Because of Oaths , the Land mourns , Hos. 4. And , ( as said the Prophet ) everyone that sweareth , shall be cut off , Zach. 5.3 . LONDON Printed , and are to be sold at the sign of the Black-Spread-Eagle , at the West-end of Pauls . 1660. The Epistle . John Tombs , IS it not a shame for thee , who art called a Baptist , thus to manifest thy sel● , and divide thy self from thy own people ? Hast thou not taught people to swear , first one way , and then an●ther ? Did ever any of the Apostles so in the Primitive times ? But on the contrary , that people should not swear at all . And why dost thou bring the Scripture that was spoken to the Jewes , and apply it to the Christians ? And why dost thou bring the Scripture where the Angel sware , but brings not the Scripture which saith , All Angels must worship the Son who saith , Swear not at all ? So is not this like Anti-christ , and Anti-Apostle , that preaches up that which Christ and the Apostles denyed , as in Matth. 5. and James 5. And whereas thou saist in thy Epistle , that thy writing is short and indigested , in that thou hast said truly ; for how can they that fear God digest it , seeing it is so contrary unto Christ and the Apo●tles Doctrine ? And so both thou and it are become an ill savour to God and them that love him ; but thou shalt be rewarded according to thy work But God hath made thee manifest , who hath so long been hiding thy self under so many false coverings , but now art discov●red , that thou should no more deceive the Nation . R. H. An Answer to Iohn Tombs his Six Propositions , in which he asserts Swearing to be lawful . But on the contrary , from the Scripture it is proved , that the Believers and Christians are not to Swear at all , Therefore to them that are in Christ Jesus no Oath is lawful . WE read in the Scriptures of truth , Mat. 5.19 . That whosoever breaketh the least Commandmen and teacheth men so he shall be least , ( or not at all ) in the Kingdom of God . ) But we do find some men especially John Tombs breaking the commands of Christ , and teaching men so , therefore he is guilty of that judgement : but to the first proposition which is this . That some swearing is Lawful . His proofs are these . That which is not de toto genere , in its whole kind evil , may be Lawfull , but swearing is not de toto genere , or in its whole kind evil , therefore some swearing may be Lawfull . Answ. This argument is thus disproved To break any of Christs commands or to deny the Apostles Doctrine is de toto genere , in its whole kind , but to sweare at all by any Oath is to break the command of Christ , and to deny the Apostles Doctrine , as Mat. 5.35 , 35 , 36 , 37. and , Jam. ● . 12 Therefore to swear at all is not lawfull , but evil , according to Christ and the Apostles Doctrine and in the state of condemnation , Jam. 5. Again John Tombs concluding that his major is manifest of it self , goes . To prove this minor thus . That is not wholly evil about the use of which some Directions are given by God ; but God giveth directions about the use of swearing , as Ier. 4.2 . And thou shalt swear the Lord liveth in truth and judgment and in righteousness , ergo Answ. By the same argument , may it as well be proved that the Christians and believers in Christ ; may be circumcised , offer innocence , burnt offerings and sacrifices , because for the use of it God gave some directions , and therefore it is lawfull , but as circumcision , innocence , burnt offerings and sacrifices of the Law is ended in Christ , so is the Oaths which was among the Jews in him ended also to the believers , and by him forbidden : for as it was said in old time thou shalt swear , and shalt perform thy oath to the Lord ; but Christ in the 5 of Mat. making mention of the Jews oath which God gave once directions for , yet saith he swere not at all ; here Christ puts an end not onely to frivolous and vain oaths , but to the true oaths which the Jews was once commanded of God to swear , for these oaths are they which Christs words hath relation to , for he came to end the Jews worships and oathes , who is the oath of God , Christ the truth and righteousness of God saith sweare not at all , which ends the Jews which was to swear in truth and righteousness . 2. Argument . That which is approved by God is lawful , but some swearing is approved by God , Psal. 63.11 . every one that sweareth by God shall glory , ergo , Answ. That Scripture Psal. 63.11 . saith thus , but the King shall rejoyce in God , every one that sweareth by him shall glory but the mouth of them that speak lyes shall be stopped . This was spoken of David the Anointed of God who was in that covenant of the Law , wherein he might sweare in truth and righteousness , that oath as the Lord liveth , and as my soul liveth ; but there was some in that time , which if they used that Oath , the Lord liveth , surely , they sweare falsly , Ier. 5.2 . But what is that to the Christians under the new covenant who are under Christs command , who saith swear not at all , neither by that oath which David and the Jews swore by , nor any other oath , but if upon any occasion they were required to testifie their obedience whether they would be subject to such , or such things ; their answer was to be yea or nay , and to keep there words , which is more then the hypocrites and hirelings Priests in these times hath done by there oaths , for this we have had good experience of , that such as do now plead to swear for a thing , hath sworn against the same thing & do now preach against that which they have preached for , so that they will preach , pray , or swear any thing for their bellie , and for filthy Lucre ; and the oath which David was to swear in truth and righteousness who called Christ Lord , he that was Davids Lord & glory saith swear not at all , who hath all power & glory . Again whereas John Tombs instanceth Abraham , Isack David , Solomon , Elijah , Mica , Elisha , the women of Shunem , and Itai , Vria , and Samuel &c. their swearing and entring into covenant to be examples for swearing . Ans. All these were under the first covenant , and was in that which Christ called the old time , Mat. 5. and proves nothing that Christians in the new covenant should swear , for although Abraham swore , and Solomon swore , yet Christ which was before Abraham and greater then Solomon , saith swear not at all , and al. though David swore yet he was Davids Lord which said swear not at all , and though the Angels swore by him that liveth for ever , yet Christ unto whom all the Angels shal bow & worship , saith swear not at all , so that all these arguments and Scriptures doth not prove that it is lawfull for the believers and Christians to swear at all , but it is Tombs ignorance in his applying Scripture in disobeying Christs command . Again to prove swearing lawfull , John Tombs saith that Paul put an oath on the Thessolonians , 1. Thes. 5.27 . which words are these , I charge you by the Lord that this Epistle be read unto all the holy bretheren : Now saith Tombs the Greek word translated I charge you by the Lord , is I put the Lords oath on you , or swear you that this Epistle be read to all the holy bretheren , alike charge are 1. Tim. 6.13 . 2. Tim. . 4.1 . &c. Answ. This is the long and thick mist of darkness which hath been long kept over the understandings of people , that when the plain Scripture will not prove their ends and intents , then they tell people it is otherwise in the Greek , or Hebrew , did not the translator of the Bible understand Greek as well as John Tombs ? or are we not to believe the Scripture as it speaks till again it be translated by him ? but least be should be wise in his own eyes , as it is in the Greek is here set down , that all that can read and understand it may judge whether Paul did put an oath upon them , or did swear them to read that Epistle to the brethren . As 1 Thes. 5.27 {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} That is , I oblige or charge you in the presence of God &c. Not I put the Lords oath upon you , or swear you as Iohn Tombs saith , for if they did read the Epistle among the brethren , then his obligation or charge to them was fulfilled ; but seeing Iohn Tombs saith he swore them , he might have declared in what manner they were sworn , seeing Paul was at Athens when he wrote to Thessolonicae . Again he saith the like charge is in 1. Ti● . 6.13 . which acding to the Greek he would make an oath , the words are these {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} that is I in oyn or command thee before God , not a putting an oath upon them , or causing them to swear as Iohn Tombs saith . Again he saith there is the like charge ( or oath ) put upon them in 2. Tim 4.1 . which in the Greek is thus {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} . that is , I charge thee in the presence of God , &c. Not that he took him sworn , or put an oath upon him , or take him sworn that he should preach the word , but did charge him to be instant in season and out of season in his ministry . Again Iohn Tombs saith in the times of the Gospel Paul used this oath , 2. Cor. 1.8 . But as God is true &c. Answ. Now those that minds this Scripture may see that Paul doth onely justifie Christs words in keeping to yea and nay , saying that with him it was not yea and nay , for saith he verse 18. but as God is true , our word towards you was not yea and nay , and verse 19. for the Son of God , Jesus Christ , who was preached among you by us , even by me and Silvanus , and Timothius , was not yea and nay , for all the promises of God in him are yea and in him , Amen . So that this Scripture is so far from bringing people to oaths and swearing that he labours to bring them all to yea and nay in all things , and so to Christ the substance in whom all the promises of God are yea ; so that the Apostle might well use these words that as God was true &c See also were they true to their yea and nay the end of all oaths ; other Scripture , Tombs brings to prove the Apostles did swear , as Rom. 1.9 . and 9.1 . Gal. 1.20 . Phil. 1.8 . Answ. As to the fi●st , Rom. 19. where the Apostle saith , for God is my witness whom I serve with my spirit in the Gospel of his Son , that without ceasing I make mention of you alwaies in my prayers ; is this a proof for men to swear and take oaths either for men or against men , hath not the man hear lost the understanding of a man ? thus to compare and call this the Apostles oath when he takes God to witness that he prayes for the Saints continually , and his saying in Rom 9. ● . I speak the truth in Christ , I lye not , my conscience also bearing me witness in the holy Ghost , that I have great heaviness , and continual sorrow in my heart &c. and Gal. 1.20 . where the Apostle saith , now the things that I write unto you , behold before God I lye not , is this an oath to testifie the truth of his writings against lyes ; indeed this we desire that John Tombs and the rest of the Priests in this Nation would write nothing , but what God would witness unto the truth of , and that they would speak truth before God and not lye , then they would not thus abuse the Apostles words , and plead for swearing from them , when as the Apostles intend no such thing in their words here asserted ; and where as it is again said that the Apostle took an oath , Phil. 1.8 . where he saith for God is my record how greatly I long after you in the bowels of Jesus Christ . Now let all honest and sober hearted men consider whether the truth of God and the Apostles that speak it forth be not abused , that from a novice that is lifted up in pride , and that would do or say any thing for his hire should bring those Scripture to plead for swearing and that lawfulness of oaths , in all which the Apostle took God to witness his love to the Saints and labour in the work of his ministry , signifiing to all that understand how that he spoke the truth and did not lye , and kept to his yea and nay according to Christs doctrine ( and did not swear at all ) . Now further to prove swearing Lawfull John Tombs brings This fifth argument . That which hath a necessary use for the benefit of humane society is not unlawfull , but some swearing hath a necessary use for the benefit of humane society , ergo , Answ. This argument is thus disproved , and both the major and minor , to be false . For to break any command of Christ is of no necessary use for humane society , but to swear any oath is to break his command , ergo , For Godliness is profitable unto all men , in all their societies , but he that swears goes from Godliness into ungodliness and transgrssion , which transgression is of no use nor service amongst Christians , so that John Tombs might as well have thus stated his Argument , that to break Christs commend is of benefit to humane society , therefore to break Christs command is lawfull &c. and might thus have proved it , that except we break Christs command , we cannot preach for hire nor sue men at the Law for tythes ; nor live in pride , ease , and vanity , nor keep our places of profits , and benefits , which is necessary for our society ( of Priests , ) ergo , But we whose eyes God hath opened , do see that all his book tends to the perswading of people to swear , when Christ hath said swear not at all , and that which he now would swear for again would swear against for the same advantage and profits which he hath in his eye , yea or he would perswade all men not to swear and bring Scripture to prove it upon the same account , so that what he doth in this kind is because of advantage : for two years since he did not preach this doctrine nor write those arguments . Now it being proved that the followers of Christ , and believers in him are not to swear at all , then all those promissory oaths upon which John Tombs hath grounded his other propositions is not to be taken : But again to prove an oath of supremacy to King Caesar , he brings the example and rule of Christ , and argues thus , if the Lord Christ in the dayes of his flesh did accowledge Caesar as supreme Governor in his dominions , and did subject himself to his jurisdiction in answering before the Roman Deputy and was obedient to his parants real or supposed , then all Christians even the highest Ecclesiastical Prelate should be subject to the King as supreme Governor in his Dominions ; and for proof of this brings Mat. 22.21 . when the Pharises shewed Jesus the Tribute money , Christ bid them give unto Caesar that which was Caesars , and unto God the things that are Gods , so then it was the tribute money that was due to Caesar : but doth this prove that Christ did swear , or was any example of swearing to Caesar , or account Caesar the head of the Church and Ruler in Ecclesiastical things , so that this Scripture proves the contrary then for that which thou brings it , for those Pharisees that brought the money to Christ , said they knew that he respected no mans person , but taught the way of God in Truth ; so then if Christ be our example and rule in this , then to the supream King or Kings we must not respect their persons but give them their due , which is that tribute which hath their own superscription upon it , and we must teach the way of God in Truth , and give unto God the things which are Gods , which is all honour , glory , and rule in spiritual matters , and give to Christ alone the preheminence , which is head of his body which is his Church , and we must not swear at all , neither for nor against any man , for Christ did not swear neither for nor against Cesar , and we must live peaceably with all men , not envy nor fight for nor against any man , and this is quite contrary to what Jo. Tombs would perswade people , or to what he understands from the Scripture , which would make people believe that Christ was an example of the oath of supremacy to Cesar , so that people may well be blind and ignorant who hath such Teachers . But we also shall follow the example of Christ , as 1 Tim. 6.13 . who did witnesse a good confession before Pontius Pilate , and this is a good confession before any King or Ruler now , to say that we have obeyed the Truth from our heart , and have not broken the Commands of Christ by swearing , for , nor against any ; neither have we transgrest the example of Christ in respecting any mans person , neither do we in our hearts envy any man , King , Ruler , nor people , but hath love even to our enemies , and can do good to them that hate us , and can pray for them that persecute us , and do desire and daily labour that all men might come to the knowledge of the Truth , that they might be saved , And this good Confession we can witnesse before the King , or any in Authority , and say that God is our witnesse , and our Conscience also bears us witnesse in the sight of God , as the Apostle did , and we can say also that we speak the Truth before God , and lye not , for our eyes is not blinded with gifts and rewards , neither have we taken Oaths , Covenants , nor Protestations for Parties , Powers , or Religions , but since we knew the way of Christ we have walked in it , and kept to his Commandment and Oath , which is yea and nay in all things , and so have not entred into condemnation with those that are given to change , but the unchangeable Priest , the unchangeable Covenant , and unchangeable Law hath been our Rule , and of this we need not be ashamed , but in Gods power and Authoritie can we hold up our heads , when others do bow down their backs alwayes ( crouching under every power and change of Government ) as Davids enemies did , Psal. 69.23 . for that is their place and condition , as the Apostle doth witnesse , Rom. 11.10 . Again Jo. Tombs saith , that Paul a Saint was subject to the judgement of Caesar and appealed to him , then he acknowledged him supream , &c. ergo Ans. Paul was a prisoner for the word of God and testimony of Jesus , and appealed to Caesar for justice , because he was unjustly accused , and had not done any thing worthy of bonds or of death , therefore according to their Law he ought to be set free , but Paul did not call Caesar the supream head of the Church , and chief Ruler in Ecclesiastical things , for if Caesar had been the supream head of the Church of which Paul was a member , he would but have needed little appealing unto for setting of him at liberty ; but in such Arguments as Tombs hath used , is manifest the ignorance of foolish men , wherein their folly appears to all men , as the Scripture saith , 2 Tim. 3.9 . And whereas thou sayest that there is holy and harmlesse Christians , and many upright soules whose Consciences are very tender , and many godly persons that have excepted against that Oath , and the lawfulnesse of taking of it , as fearing it may take away the liberty of their Consciences , which is dearer to them then their lives . Ans. These that are so are in a better condition then thy self , and to such thy ministry if received would beget them from their holy and harmlesse state , into transgression of Christs command , and from the tendernesse of Conscience into hardnesse of heart ; and now to answer their objections , thou tells them that it was imposed for excluding of the Popes jurisdiction , &c. if so , why dost thou preach it up to be imposed upon the holy , harmlesse , godly Christians , who are redeemed from the Popes power and jurisdiction , and is come into the doctrine of Christ , and into the life of Christ , which is out of all such Oaths . Thou art a miserable Comforter to tender Consciences , but thy end is seen , and therefore thou cannot deceive many , but for those that thou hast before mentioned , who are holy , harmlesse , upright , and godly , which are tender of an Oath ; they ought to be thy Teachers who thy self art far from righteousnesse or tendernesse of Conscience , therefore for thee it is a shame to be an imposer of Oaths upon tender Consciences , who professeth thy self a Minister of Christ , who did forbid all swearing , and his Minister did preach against it , and said above all things swear not at all , lest they fall into condemnation , but it is manifest that thy Ministry is to bring people into condemnation , and not into the obedience to Christs command , therefore they that fear God will turn away from such , 2 Tim. 3.5 . Now saith Jo. Tombs , the grand objection against swearing is our Saviours words , Mat. 5.34 , 35 , 36 , 37. and Jam. 5.12 . which words saith he doth seem expresly and fully to forbid any swearing at all , excluding some sorts of Oaths by name , and the rest by general terms , that our Communication should be yea , yea , nay , nay , and what is more cometh of evil , or of the evil One ; yet saith he , we must of necessity find out a limitation of the speeches as we do , and the limitation is this , that is , frequent , vain , light , prophane , unnecessary , customary , passionate swearing or in secular matters of no importance , which in these Scriptures are forbidden . Ans. Indeed it doth plainly appear , that thou must of necessity either disprove Christs words , or else deny thy own , seeing they are contrary the one to the other ; so therefore thou sayest that it was those Oaths above mentioned that was forbidden by Christ and the Apostles , And I shall shew it plainly that thou hast no necessity to limit Christs words to vain and prophane swearing , ( out onely that thou would have thy words true and his false ) for Christs words in Mat. 5. doth not intend such Oaths , for he speaks of the true Oaths which was used amongst the Jewes , and such Oaths as Christ told them they were to perform ; for it was not said in old time , that they should perform vain , light , prophane , unnecess●ry , customary , and passionate Oaths , but such as they were to perform betwixt the Lord and them , and the solemn vowes and Covenants which they made in old time , to their Kings , and one unto another , the Christians now by the command of Christ was not to swear these Oaths , neither any Oath true nor false , so that Christ is not to be limited to intend vain Oaths , when as for instance Christ mentions the Jewes swearing , who was in the Commandment , who did deny all vain , customary , false , and passionate swearing , so that Jo. Tombs limitation is taken away , and Christs meaning must be as large as his words , which is not to swear at all by any Oath , but to keep to yea and nay in all promises , professions , and engagements upon all occasions , and so to keep out of the condemnation , whereby all peoples Consciences may be kept clean to the Lord in all things , and they brought to the exercise of a good Conscience , for the Lord is now teaching his people himself , and bringing them to obey the doctrine of his Son , in which they may find peace for their soules , and not to be in bondage unto such Teachers as are given to change with every Government , who preach as the false Prophets did for handfuls of barley , and pieces of bread , and such are they who preach the lawfulnesse of swearing ( or sinning ) against Christs command , but the Lord hath made them manifest , and is redeeming his elect and chosen from amongst such who have made a prey upon people , and fed upon their sins , but not upon the life which the Saints was in . A true Testimony of the Jews swearing under the Law , mentioned in 113. Scriptures , with a distinction also of the Apostate Christians swearing , without either Law or Gospel for example in their oaths . And also the Christians state under the gospel ministration and new Covenant , how they are by Christ commanded not to swear at all , plainly made manifest from the Scripture . THe Jews swear , the Apostate Christians swear , but the true Christians who are redeemed out of the Apostacy , that sees Christ Jesus , that was before the Jewes and Apostates cannot swear at all , in whom we see that the doctrine of the Jews was to swear , the doctrine of the Apostates is to swear , the doctrine of Christ and his Apostles was not to swear at all , the Jews sware by the living God , but the Apostates by the book , which is not comparable to the Jews swearing . Here is a list of the Scriptures which was spoken to them of the old time , and the Law and first Covenant , who swore and was to swear , and perform their oaths to the Lord , which Christ ends , who saith swear not at all , but in all your Communications let your yea be yea , and your nay nay , for whatsoever is more cometh of evil , and this said be , to whom all power in heaven and earth was given , who put down swearing in the Law , first Covenant , and old time , which were true Oaths , not frivolous ; for the frivolous was judged by them of the Law , first Covenant , and old time , for that Oath which Christ puts down was that which was sworn to the Lord , and was to be performed in the state of the Law , first Covenant , and the old time , since man was drove from God into the earth , which Law , first Covenant , ( Christ ends ) and Oath , and redeems man out of the earth , and makes all things new , who saith swear not at all ; now as followeth are the Scriptures which was spoken to the Jews , and them of the old time that swore . Abimelech and his Captain , and Abraham sware , Gen. 21.23 , 24 , 31. Christ which was before Abraham was , said swear not at all , that is the Covenant that ends Abrahams and Abimelechs Covenant , and saith they must keep to yea and nay in their communications . And the Lord sware unto Abraham , Gen. 24.7 . that unto his seed he would give the land ; and that Oath was performed , and Christ being come , who was before Abraham , who saith swear not at all . And Abrahams servant swore to Abraham , Gen. 2.4.9.37 . And Esau sware to Jacob and sold his birth-right , Gen. 25.33 . and Joseph sware by the life of Pharaoh , Gen. 42.15 . but Christ reigns over the house of Joseph and Jacob , which saith swear not at all , and the house of Esau must be as stubble . And chap. 26.3 . the Lord said he would perform his oath to Abraham , which he sware , that his seed should be as the stars of heaven ; this was before Christ was come in the flesh , who was b●fore Abraham , who saith , swear not at all . And Isaac and Abimelechs Captain sware , and an oath was betwixt them , and this was in the old time , and in Isaac was the seed called , Christ Jesus , who said , swear not at all , Gen 26.30.31 . chap. 31.53 . Jacob sware by the fear of his father Isaac , in whom as I said before , the seed should be called , who reignes over the house of Jacob , who said swear not at all , but in all your communications let your yea be yea , and your nay nay , this was in the new time , the other was in the old . And Joseph sware unto Jacob in Egypt in the old time , but Christ as I said before , reignes over the house of Joseph and Jacob , saith swear not at all , for by the oath he was to be carried our of Egypt , and so by Christ the oath of God , that ends the oaths , are all to be carried out of spiritual Egypt , Gen. 47.31 . chap. 50.5 , 6. and Exod. 13.5 . where the Lord sware to the Fathers concerning the Jews , who had the covenant and promise , which Christ the Covenant performs the oath of God , and his promise and covenant , who saith swear not at all . And Exod. 6.8 God sware he would give the land to the children of Israel , which he had sworn to Abraham , but Christ who was before Abraham , said they should not swear , that redeems out of the earth , and treads upon the earthly Canaan . And the Lord said to Moses , go to the land which I sware to Abraham , Isaac ▪ and Jacob , so the oath of the Lord brought them to this land the outward land of Canaan , but Christ who was before Abraham , that reigns over the house of Joseph and Jacob , that ends the oaths brings to God , and the land of the Living , where is the everl●sting rest above Canaan , Exod. 33 1. The Lord sware in the wilderness that he would bring the people into the land , and the Lord said they should see the land which he sware to their fathers , but they that provoked him should not see it , and they should not come into the land which he sware , save Caleb , &c. who had provoked the Lord , and these did not abide in the oath which brought into the land ; as the Christians do not abide in Christ that brings into the land of the Living , that saith swear not at all ; as they did not abide in the oath which would have brought them into the land of Canaan , Num 14.16 , 23 , 30. I set the land before you saith the Lord , which I sware to Abraham your Father , and Isaac , and Jacob , and to their seed after them , Deut. 1.8 . ch. 8.1 . ye shall possess the land if ye do all things I command you , vvhich I svvare to your Fathers , and ye shall prolong your dayes in the land vvhich I svvare to your Fathers , and the dayes of your children vvhich the Lord svvare to your fathers should be multiplyed , ch. 11.9.21 . And the Lord svvare that Moses should not go over Jordan , the Lord forg●t not his covenant to the Fathers vvhich he svvare to them , ch. 4 . 2·1.31 . And the Lord brought thee into the land vvhich he svaare to Abraham , Isaac , and Jacob , ch. 6.10.13 , 18. thou shalt possess the land vvhich the Lord svvare to the Fathers , ye shall keep covenant and mercy , vvhich the Lord svvare to your Fathers to give thee the land , ch. 7.12 , 13. ch. 8 18. so you may see here hovv the oath of the Lord being kept , vvhich brought to the land ; and the oath being not kept , but the Lord was provoked and turned against them , and he svvare they should not enter into the land ; so Christ vvho ends the oath , who abides in him , he brings them into rest , but who doth not abide in him , the light turns against them , and he condemns them ; and so they come not into rest , chap. 9.5 . And the Lord perform his word which he sware to Abraham , Isaac , and Jacob , ch. 2.8.11 . and the Lord will make thee fruitful in the land which he sware to give thee , as he kept the Law he kept the oath , and so they bare fruit as they do which abide in Christ , who ends the oath . Chap. 30.20 . as they loved and obeyed his voice , he was their life , and the length of their dayes , that they might dwell in the land which he sware to their Fathers , Abraham , Isaac , and Jacob , so in obedience to the Law the oath was performed , but he that ends the law ends the oath , who was before daies was , who is the life Christ , chap. 26.3 . They shall tell the Priest that they are come to the land which the Lord gave them , Jos. 1.6 . be strong and of good courage , ye shall inherit the land which the Lord sware , Deut. 30.20.23 . when the Lord had brought them into the land which he sware , they were to keep covenant , this was spoken to the Jews , else the oath turned against them , which oath and covenant Christ ends , Jos. 5.6 . And the Prince of the congregation sware , ch. 9.15 , 20. but Christ the Prince of peace ends these Princes among the Jews , their authority and oaths , ch. 14.9 . And Moses sware , chap. 21.43 , 44. and the Lord gave the people rest , as he sware to their Fathers , now this was spoken to the Jews , and Moses the servant which sware , Christ the Son who is greater then the servant Moses , that ends the Law , and redeems out of the earth saith swear not at all , who is Gods covenant everlasting . Judg. 2.1 . the Lord said he had brought them into the land which he sware , and he would not break covenant with them , and this was spoken to the Jews that had the outward covenant , and the land , and the oath spoken to them ( and not the Christians ) which Christ ends . 1 Sam. 19.6 . and Saul sware who was a King , and Jonathan sware to David in the time of his sufferings , but Christ the King of Kings saith swear not at all , there is the top and corner stone laid , that destroyes the Devil the authour of sufferings , in whom is peace , chap. 20.3.17 . David sware , chap. 24.21 22. David sware unto Saul , ch. 28.10 . Saul sware to the witch , but Christ Jesus that David called Lord saith swear not at all ; though David and Saul were Kings , yet Christ who hath all power in heaven and earth , who is king of kings , whose dominion is larger th●n Sauls or Davids , who saith swear not at all . 2 Sam. 3.35 . and David sware he would not eat till the Sun went down , Bathsheba said to David , O king , did not thou swear to thy handmaid that Solomon should reign , and she said thou swaredst by the Lord thy God that Solomon should reign , 1 King. 17.29 , 30. and David sware as his soul lived , and God who had redeemed it out of all adversity , that Solomon should reign , and Adoniah would have had Solomon swear that he would not slay him , ver. 51. and David sware he would not slay Shim●i if he went not out of Jerusalem , and Shimei sware to the king and broke his oath , 1 King. 28.42 . and Solomon said to him , did I make thee to swear , and Joab said to David he sware by the Lord , 2 Sam. 19.1 , 2 , 3. and Solomon said 1 Kin. 8.31 . 2 Chron. 6.22 . when a man trespasses against his neighbour , and they lay upon him an oath , to cause him to swear , and the swearer shall come before the Altar in this house , and Solomon said it was alike to him that sweareth and him that feareth an oath , Eccl. 9.2 . and the young man that came out of Egypt bid David swear by the Lord that he vvould not kill him , nor deliver him into the hands of his Master , 1 Sam. 30 . 15· novv here vvas svvearing , and this vvas among the Jevvs , and though these are proofs for their swearing , yet Christ a greater then Solomon , who was greater then David and Solomon , who were kings , saith swear not at all , he which hath all power in heaven given to him . And here they were to swear before the Altar in the house of God , as said king Solomon , but this is nothing to the Christians that they should swear , but Christ that ends the oath ends the Altar , and the Temple , and said it should be thrown down ; so Solomon was made by an oath , for David sware to his Mother that Solomon should reign , so according to the oath he was , so Christ who ends the oaths , that is a greater then Solomon , that redeems from the earth , makes kings to reign upon the earth which are not to swear , and saith swear not at all . And you may see Gedaliah sware 2 Kin. 25.24 . Jer. 40.9 . and said , be ye Servants to the Caldees , and Sampson made the children of Judah swear that they would not kill him , Judg. 1.5.12 . and the spies sware to Rahab that they would not open the matter , and if she uttered the matter they were quit of the oath , Jos. 2.12 20. and Zedekiah rebelled against Nebuchadnezar , which had caused him to swear by God , 2 Chron. 36.13 . And the children of Israel sware together to serve the Lord , and rejoyced at the oath they had sworn with their hearts , 2 Chr. 15.14 , 15. now as these Scriptures is to prove that these sware , but all who came to the joy which remains in Christ Jesus , they come to him which ends the swearing , and ends the oaths , and then they joy in the oath , Christ Jesus who is of the tribe of Judah , who ends the swearing , who is a greater then Sampson , and none of these Scriptures prove that the true Christians sware after Christ forbade them . Moses said to the Lord remember Abraham , Isaac , and Israel , to whom thou sware by thy self , I will multiply thy seed , and give you this land ; here you may see this was to the Jews who had the land , which when Christ came among them , him they was to hear , who ended the oaths , and said they should not swear , they persecuted him , Exod. 32 . 13· thou shalt serve the Lord and cleave to him and swear by his name , Deut. 10.11 . and thou shalt swear the Lord liveth in righteousnesse , and truth , and in judgment , Jer. 4 2. and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the true God , Isa. 65.16 . now here is the oath that was to be performed to the Lord , and Christ the righteousnesse of God and truth ends the oath , that was to be sworn in righteousnesse , and saith swear not at all , to whom every knee must bow . And the Lord said he had sworn by himself , his word was gone out in righteousnesse , every knee should bow , and every tongue should swear to him , this was the true oath and the house of Jacob sware by the name of the Lord , but not in truth and righteousnesse , these was the vain oaths which the Prophet forbade , and was forbidden by the Jews , Isa. 45.23 . chap. 48.1 . and the true oath was that which was sworn by the Lord , and then the Jews bowed to him , but God saith this is my beloved Son , hear him , who saith swear not at all , and they that be true Christians do the thing that he commands , John 5. And Israel sware not in truth and righteousnesse , though they said the Lord lived , yet they sware falsly , amongst them that seek not the truth , nor execute true judgment , Jer. 5 , 2. the Lord saith I swear by my self , that this house shall be wasted , if they would not hear the words of God , Jer. 22.5 . and the Lord swore unto the Fathers that he would give them the land that flowed with milk and honey ; now mind , this oath brought them into the land that had the types , and figures , and shadows , which when Christ comes he ends this oath , and types , and figures , and shadows . King David said , Psal. 63.11 . the king shall rejoyce in God , and all that swear by him shall rejoyce in him , this was a true oath ; and David sware to the Lord , and vowed to the mighty God , Ps. 132.2 . and David said unto the Lord , where are thy former mercies which thou sware unto thy servant in truth , Psal. 89.49 . he honoureth him that sweareth to his own hurt and changeth not , shall not be removed , Psal. 15 4. now this is to prove swearing to them that were under the Law , and to the Jews , and that King David sware , and the Prophets sware , which Christ the end of the Prophets , and David saith swear not at all , him that David calls Lord , and this is my beloved Son whose voice is to be heard saith God . Whosoever voweth a vow to the Lord , or sweareth an oath to bind himself by a bond , he shall not break it , here they were to perform their oaths to the Lord , Num. 30.2 . Deut. 26.15 . when the children of Israel walked in the law of God , they should possesse the land which he sware unto them , so they possessed the oath as a true Christian possesses Christ , who forbids that oath , and walks in the light , and so he possesseth the word which is the honey , and the milk , as the Jews possessed the land that flowed with milk and honey , that kept the Lords oath and his law , but they departed from it ; but the new Covenant being witnessed and the law written in the heart and mind that possess it , they shall not depart from the Lord . Ezra caused the chief Priests and all Israel to swear , and that they would do according to the law , now these were the Jews in the law which Christ ends , Ez 10.5 . Isa. 3.7 . in the time of confusion the man shall swear he will not be a healer , this was in the time when they had transgressed the oath of God and his Law , ch. 19.18 . Egypt shall speak the land of Canaan , and shall swear by the Lord , and they were not to swear falsly , Lev. 6.3.5 . and the Jews was not to swear to pronounce with their lips to do evil , and if he did it ignorantly he was to confess it . cha. 5.4 . and they should not swear by the Name of the Lord faslly , chap. 19.20 . and swearing faslly was forbidden by the Prophet to the Jews , Jer. 7.9 . And Jeremiah cryed out , the Land was full of Adultry and Oaths , Chap. 2 , 3.10 These was not the oaths that Christ said they should perform to the Lord . And by swearing and killing and lying , blood toucheth blood , Hos. 4.2 . these were the rebukable oaths , and while they were in ●hat state , playing the harlot , they were not to sweare the Lord lives , when they were in the rebellious state , then they were rebukable and could not swear the true oath , but went to the false oathes , and Hosea told the Jews they sware faslly , so the Prophet judged the false oaths , but Christ ended the true , Hos. 10.4 . And Malaci told the Jews the Lord would rise a witness against the false swearers , Mal. 3.5 . did not Christ cry wo unto the Jews and Pharisees that said it was nothing to swear by the Temple , and told them they that sware by the Temple and the Gold of the Temple offended , these were the Jews that he told of swearing by the Altar , and the offering , and sware by all things that was on the Altar , and he that sware by the Temple , sware by him that dwelt in the Temple , and he that sware by Heaven , sware by the Throne of God and him that sat thereon ; Christ spake these things to the Jews he cryed wo against , who was not believers , Mat. 23.16 . to the 22 , this was spoken to the Jews and Pharisees ( that knew not Christ ) that that was in the swearing , against which he cryed woe , who saw not the substance of the Altar and Temple , that they sware by , and the things thereon , who saith sweare not at all , Mat. 5. Peter cursed and sware . Mat. 26.74 . Mat. 14 . 71.72· but after he repented , the Jews oath was to swear by the Lord , and the Christians was to keep to yea and nay in their communications , & not to swear at all , Mat. 5. Jam. 5. and the Jews was not to swear by the Books of Moses , nor the Prophets , as the Apostate Christians who swore by the contents of the Books , but their oath was to swear by the Lord , and the Jews was not to swear by the Gods of the Heathen , for Amos told them that sware by the sin of Samaria , should fall and never rise again , Amos 8.14 . And the Lord swore to the children of Israel that they should not make mention of the names of their Gods nor sware by them , for the Heathen sware by their Gods , but the Jews were to swear by the Living God , and perform their oaths to the Lord , Jos , 23.7 . which Christ ends . And the Jews when they were under transgression , they sware by the Gold and by the Altar , and by the Temple , and the Christians that are apostatized from the Apostles have sworn by the Epistles and the Evangelists , for which they have no example from Christ nor Scriptures , which said they might not swear by Heaven , for it was Gods Throne , for he that sware by the Throne , sware by him that sat thereon , nor they should not swear by the Earth , nor the head ; And James that followed the Doctrine of Christ , one of his Disciples said , swear not at all . And Zachary saith in his prophesie , every one that sweareth shall be cut off Zac. 5.3 . the Lord would cut off the swearer , that swears by the Lord and swears by Malcham , Zeph. 1.5 . So the King sware secretly to Jeremiah , as the Lord liveth Jer. 38.16 . and the Jews was to learn the ways of the Lord , and sware by the Name of the Lord that liveth , as they had taught the people to swear by Baall , so there was the false oath judged by the Prophet , Jer. 12 , 16. but Christ who ends the Prophets , and the Jews outward , ends the oath , and saith swear not at all . And the Lord sware in his wrath to the Jews that they should not enter into his rest , Psal , 95.11 . the Apostle saith , Heb. 3.10 , 11 they entred not because of unbeliefe , therefore he sware in his wrath , for they erred in their hearts from the oath which would have brought them in that turned against them . And he saith verily men swear by the greater , chap 6.13.16 . how God sware by himself because he could not swear by a greater , and how men sware by the greater , and their oath was to end the strife in the Law , but this is made by an oath , Christ Jesus , the Lord hath sworn , and will not repent , thou art a Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedeck ; the Apostle doth not bring that to the Hebrews that they should swear , but as a similitude , the substance of which is Christ , and that men sware by a greater then themselves , and because God could not find a greater , be sware by himself , and the oath in the Law ended the strife among men , and made the peace , but Christ Jesus that ends the Law , ends the oath , and destroyes the Divil the Author of strife , and reconciles man to God in peace , he through death destroying him who had the power of death the Devil , Heb. 2.14 . chap. 7.2.1 . and Zhecharias when he Prophesied , saw the oath which God sware to Abraham , Luke 1.71 . and none of these places in the new Testament , doth prove that the Christians did swear , for they had the oath of God performed , that enjoyed Christ Jesus , and who enjoyeth the oath of God performed , the end of the Prophets , he saith unto them they must not swear at all . Now if you say the Angel sware in the Revelations , and in Daniel by him that lived for ever and ever , this was a true oath , Dan. 12.7 , Rev. 10.6 . who sware concerning the mystery of God being finished , which God sware to the Prophets his Servants , which comes to enjoy the mystery of God Christ Jesus , they have the end of the Prophets and servants the mystery , to him the Angels must bow ; I bring forth my only begotten Son into the World , let all the Angels worship him , who saith , swear not at all . And Christ said unto the Jews and to his Disciples , how men had sworn in the old time , and was to perform their oath to the Lord , and that was the true oath , and Christ saith I say unto you now , swear not at all , and let them see that men should not forswear themselves , but perform their oaths to the Lord , and so he distinguished between the true and the false , and then bid them they should not swear at all ( mark ) not at all , neither by Heaven nor by Earth , nor by their head , nor by Jerusalem , for he gives them the reason , but tells them what they must say , and what they must do , that takes away all swearing , let your communication be yea yea , nay nay , whatsoever is more then these comes of evil , Mat. 5.33 , 34 , 35 , 36 , 37. And this is the Doctrine of Christ that faith , swear not at all , who was the oath of God performed . And James one of the Disciples and Apostles of Christ Jesus , that abode in his Doctrine , said , above all things my brethren , swear not at all , neither by Heaven , nor by Earth , nor by any other oath ; and then the Apostle taught people what they should do , and said , let your yea be yea and your nay nay , least you fall into condemnation ; And so Christ and the Apostle did not say they were to swear by the Lord and told them these were frivolous oaths , they denyed , but told them they was not to swear at all , not by any oath , for if they did , they fell into condemnation . So the Doctrine of Christ and the Apostles who ended oaths , denyed swearing , and all oaths , said they were to keep to yea and nay , and their yea was to be yea , and nay nay , which keept them out of condemnation , and who lives in this are redeemed out of the Apostacy since the Apostles daies , to Christ and the Apostles Doctrine , that knows the oath performed , and Law , and first Covenant , and Moses , and a greater then Solomon , before Abraham was , though these swore , yet he saith , swear not at all , and this is my beloved Son , hear him , and there is the top stone laid , and Christ reignes , Mat. 5. All these Scriptures , which are in all , 113. are brought to oppose Christs Doctrine by the Apostates , which prove nothing that the Christians should swear . The oath of God his Law being kept , his promise was performed , which brought the Jews into the outward Land of Canaan , which had the types and figures and shaddows which Christ ends , the oath , Law and first Covenant , and types and figures and shaddows , and redeems out of the Earthly Canaan , and from the Earth to God , and so brings into the Land of the Living . THE END . 
A44839	----	The difference of that call of God to the ministry which is by the power of his own gift and measure of life, revealed, and of that, which is received of man, and taught by man, as is manifest by these two severall calls, herein declared, with several principals relating to this second call, answered / by Richard Hubberthorn. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A44839 of text R21988 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing H3223). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 34 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 9 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A44839 Wing H3223 ESTC R21988 12227453 ocm 12227453 56588 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A44839) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 56588) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 919:21) The difference of that call of God to the ministry which is by the power of his own gift and measure of life, revealed, and of that, which is received of man, and taught by man, as is manifest by these two severall calls, herein declared, with several principals relating to this second call, answered / by Richard Hubberthorn. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. 16 p. Printed for Thomas Simmons ..., London : 1659. Reproduction of original in Cambridge University Library. eng Clergy -- Office. A44839 R21988 (Wing H3223). civilwar no The difference of that call of God to the ministry: vvhich is by the power of his own gift, and measure of life, revealed, and of that, whic Hubberthorn, Richard 1659 6677 19 0 0 0 0 0 28 C The rate of 28 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the C category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2004-12 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-02 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-03 Mona Logarbo Sampled and proofread 2005-03 Mona Logarbo Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion THE DIFFERENCE Of that call of God to the MINISTRY : VVhich is by the power of his own gift , and measure of life , revealed . And of that , which is received of man , and taught by man . As is manifest by these two several calls , herein declared ; with several Principals relating to this second call , Answered . By RICHARD HUBBERTHORN . LONDON , Printed for Thomas Simmons , at the Bull and Mouth near Aldersgate , 1659. TO THE READER . IT being of the Lord so ordered , that a publick dispute was appointed betwixt Thomas Dance Priest in Sandwich in Kent , and those called Quakers , which was upon the twelfth and thirteenth daies of the second moneth , in which many weighty things , concerning Religion was discoursed of ; in which it was first proved by us , according to the Scripture , that Christ Jesus the true light , hath enlightened every one that commeth into the World , John , 1. 9. and John , 12. and another weighty matter , concerning Religion , discoursed upon was , the righteousnesse by which man is justified before God , which by us was witnessed and proved , to be onely by the righteousness that was in Christ Jesus , being also made manifest in us , the everlasting righteousness , being brought in , according to Dan. 9. 24. again upon the tenth day the discourse was , whether the Scriptures were the word of God ; the Answer was , that the Scriptures were writings , and the writings was not the word , but the thing written of was the word of God ; unto which the Priests also consented : Another thing was concerning the call to the Ministry , whether theirs or ours was according to the Apostles , and according to the Scriptures , the heads of both which calls , is declared as followeth , that all people may judge according to their measure of the gift of Christ , whether of them is according to Scripture Testimony . A Call to the Minstery according to the Scriptures , held forth in these few words following ; Contrary to that Call which is of man , and by man . THat by which the Apostles were called into the work of the Ministry , having gifts differing according to the measure of the manifestation of Christ , by the same am I called : which is also according to the Scriptures , as Eph. 4. Unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gifts of Christ , by which gift according to the measure of it , were they made ; Some Apostles , some Prophets , some Evangelists , some Pastors and Teachers , &c. And this was by the Power , Vertue and Operation of the gift of Christ in them : and as then , so now ; for there is not another way to be called into the Ministery by , neither doth any profit the people at all , but they who minister from the power , & moving of that gift which they have received from the Father , by Jesus Christ ; by which gift was I called out of the World , and separated for the work of the Gospel ; by which gift I saw that which had corrupted the earth , & by it was moved , to minister against it ; which gift is that , which hath the power in it , both to convince & convert unto God , according as the Apostle Peter ( who was unlearned in the Letter ) wa● made a Minister by the gift of the Spirit of Christ ; and saith , 1 Pet. 4 10. As every one hath received the gift , even so let him minister the same one to another , as good stewards of the manifold Grace of God ; ( And ) If any man speak , let him speak as the Oracle of God , ( and ) if any man Minister , let him do it , as of the ability which God giveth , that God in all things may be glorified . So that that Ministery by which God is glorified and people converted , is that , which proceeds from the operation and power of his own gifts in them ; which is that Ministery which perfecteth the Saints , edifies the body of Christ ; Brings into the unity of the Faith , unto the knowledge of the Son of God , and unto a perfect man , and unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ . But they which gather Scriptures together in their earthly wisdom , and from that which they have gathered , minister unto others ; this ministery doth not perfect the Saints , nor edifie the body of Christ , nor bring to the unity of the Faith ( but into strife and divisions ) not to the knowledge of the Son of God , but leads from his knowledge ; not unto a perfect man , but pleads against perfection ; not into the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ ; ( no ) not unto the measure of the least Saint , so that Ministery is to be ceased from , which proceeds not from the measure of the Fathers gift ; & that onely continued unto the end of the World which his gift calleth into , and carrieth on in ; So I , by the measure of his free Spirit , being called and made a Minister of it unto others ( ●ot of the Letter , but of the Spirit ) in which in all ages the true Ministery stood ; having not received it of man , neither was I taught it , but by the revelation and manifestation of the life of Christ in me . Which Spirit in me according to its measure is as true and as infallible as it was in them , which by it were made Apostles , Evangelists , Prophets and Teachers formerly , being the same in power , vertue and operation as it was , as able to reveal and make manifest , to teach , edifie and perfect as it was , and to beget people out of the World into the Covenant of Light and Life ; and all who are Ministers of Christ , for the gathering of his seed from the ends of the earth , into the Kingdom of his dear Son , must from the same Spirit witness their Call and separation to that work ; and all other calls , are false , and their ministery profits not , which doth not singly proceed from the measure of that gift : but all , who do abide in the measure of his gift , and from it minister , by it , they are manifest to be of God ; and in that Ministery they commend themselves unto every mans Conscience in the sight of God , and this is the calling and Ministery , in which as every one abide , they glorifie God . And this is the Ministery of reconciliation , which was committed unto the Apostles , and is unto his Ministers now ; by the power of which , the Devils works comes to be destroyed , and then all things reconciled in one , things in heaven and things in earth but that ministery which is received from man and taught by man , never reconciles any thing unto God , but doth separate from God , and beget into enemy ; but that which proceeds from the measure of the gift of God , brings every one to know the truth in their own particular ; which truth as they abide in it , sets them free from sin , and this Ministery hath the power in it , in all them that have received it , to save them that preach it , and them that hear it and obey it ; and no other Ministery doth profit the people at all , but that which from the gift of God is ministred ; so that this Call and Ministery here declared , is one with , and according to the Apostles , and the Scriptures . RICHARD HUBBERTHORN . The Heads of Priest Dance , his Professed Call to the Ministery , as followeth . Pr. If I should speak non-sence ( as others do ) then I might say , that I am made a Minister by the measure of the gift of Grace , and then I should be accounted a Minister , as well as they , &c. But I do not pretend unto any infallibility in my Ministery , but as these Act. 6. 6. Which when the Apostles had prayed , laid their hands upon them ; although ( saith he ) that laying on of hands , is not of such necessity , but that a man may be a Minister without it ; and as Timothy , although he had some extraordinary gifts , yet he was not infallible , 1 Tim. 4. 14. And ( saith he ) I desire the office of a Bishop ; which he that desireth , desireth a good work , according to 1 Tim. 3. 1. And as for his qualifications they are such as whereby he might have advantaged himself , more abundantly in the World , as to outward means , and might have been cloathed in scarlet , &c. But did rather chuse , and incline himself , to be a Minister of the Gospel , and that the outward means , was not his end in chusing to be a Minister ; but if that he could be satisfied , or see that there did not want Labourers in the Lords work , he could freely leave off , &c. And further , he said , That God had made his preaching effectual for the converting of many , and that there were many , though not in that place , yet some in that place , of whom he could say , as the Apostles said , that they were the seal of his Ministery , &c. These being the Heads of the Particulars . Objections against this Call . WHereas thou saiest , That it is non-sence to say that a man is made a Minister by the gift of Grace . Answ. Then the Apostles spoke non-sence , when they witnessed forth their Call to the Ministery ; for to every one of them was given Grace , according to the measure of the gift of Christ , from which Grace they did Minister , Eph. 4. But the Apostles spoke sensible truth ; therefore he that contradicts it speaks ; non-sence and ignorance , as will further appear in saying , that he pretends unto no infallibility in his Ministry . Answ. Then he pretends to nothing of the Spirit of God ; much less , to be a Minister of the Spirit , as Paul was , 2 Cor. 3. 6. For every measure of the Spirit is infallible , or undeceiveable ; but that which is fallible is deceiveable , and whosoever is taught by that Spirit , is deceived ; and Thomas Dance pretends to have no other Spirit , but that which is deceiveable and fallible , so that it is time to turn away from such . Again , he chargeth Timothy , that he was not infallible , which is a false charge ; for wherein was he fallible , or deceiveable , but he was so infallible , that he not neglecting the gift of God that was in him , he by it , was able to save himself , and those that heard him , 1 Tim 4. 16. And he Ministred from the gift of God in him , which he had received by Prophesie ; and so not from a fallible spirit , but from the infallible ; and so is accused falsly by T. Dance . Again , Tho. Dance saith , That he desireth the Office of a Bishop , &c. Answ. But consider what such a one must be ( which is ) blameless , vigilant , sober , not rude and scornful ; but of good behaviour , apt to teach , not apt to laugh and jear , and cause the people to be light and vain , must he not be given to wine , no striker , not greedy of filthy lucre ; but patient , not a brawler , not covetous ( as it doth appear those Priests are guilty of , which have nothing to preach from but the fallible spirit , which doth alwayes deceive people ) but one that ruleth his own house well , having his children in subjection with all gravity for if a man know not how to rule his own house will , how shall he take care of the Church of God ? but it is manifest that Thomas Dance ruled not his own Church , or people well , but rather provoked them to wantonnesse , rudenesse , and laughter , which is madnesse ; Not a novice , least being lifted up with pride , he fall into the condemnation of the Devil ; but T. D. was so lifted up in the pride of his heart , that he gave two meanings to one place of Scripture , and so falls into the condemnation of the Devil . Pr. And whereas , Thomas Dance saith ; That his qualification is such , that he might have been cloathed in scarlet , &c. Answ. What mightest thou have been ; A Lawyer or Doctor , as one of thy brethren said ? which if thou had , by that the Nation is deceived , though not in so high a measure , as by professing the ministery , but that is taken up as the most profitable trade , to get means , and live in pride ; What if thou hadst been cloathed in Scarlet , in Velvet , in Purple , or any other gorgeous apparel ? and in that apparel which thou art already cloathed with , wilt thou be condemned , when thou comes to know any measure of the gift , of the true Ministry to be thy guide . Pr. Again whereas ; Thou takest the people to be a seal of thy Ministery . An. All the people that were in place , and some more may seal it , to be fallible and deceiveable , as thou hast confessed it to be ; but there is not one that can set to their seal , that it hath brought them to a perfect man ; nor to the knowledge of the Son of God , nor to the measure of the stature of the fulnesse of Christ and so it hath not effected any of the work of the true Ministry ; but when thou comes to be searched narrowly , filthy lucre will be found to be the end , for which thou Ministers , without which , thou would be silent . And now further to manifest that , he pretends not to any thing of the infallible spirit in his Ministry , these his principles or doctrines , declare as followeth , with the answer of truth to them . Pr. That every individual man was not enlightened by Christ . Answ. Which doctrine is contrary to John . 1. 9. which saith , That was the true light , which enlighteneth every one that commeth into the World ; and to pervert the Scripture , he gave two meanings , that the people might take whether they would , so that they would but deny the form of sound words , and the plain Scripture ; the first was this , That Christ enlightened every man that is enlightened or else Secondly , that he enlighteneth some in every Nation : Now let people consider how that this can be the meaning of the Holy Ghost , as he said it was , seeing , that here is two meanings , and it is either the one or the other , but he knowes not which , doth plainly manifest , that he hath not the mind of the spirit , which is but one , and speaks as it means , but the Scriptures cannot be broken by such meanings , which saith , That every man is enlightened with the true Light . Pr. That the whole body of the Gentiles was not enlightened . Answ. Then by what shall those Gentiles be condemned , who are not enlightened , seeing that Christ was given for a light to the Gentiles , as the Prophet Isaiah saith , but he doth not say to some of the Gentiles , and not to the whole body , and though the Gentiles , were once darknesse , Eph 5. yet the light shined in the darkness , and the Apostle turned them unto that light which shined in the darknesse , that the eye which was blinded might be opened ; he did not come to give them eyes , but to open the blind eyes , not to give them light , but to turn them to the light that was in them , as Acts , 26. 18. Pr. That the Gospel is an external Light , and not invisible , and that it is not the light within . Answ. Which is contrary to the Apostles doctrine , which saith , the Gospel is the power of God , Rom. 1. which is not external nor visible , but invisible , and shined in their hearts , 2 Cor. 4. 6. and it was hid unto those that were lost , but that , which was visible , they could see and hear , with the visible eyes and ears ; but both the Gospel which is the power of God , and the eye that sees , are invisible . Pr. That Christ being the propitiation for the sins of the whole world , as John said , 1 John 2 2 , Is meant onely the world of believers . Answ. In this he would break the Scriptures , and contradict the Apostle , which saith , he is the propitiation for our sins , and not for our sins onely , ( who were the believers ) but for the sins of the whole World , which whole World , John said , lyes in wickedness , but the whole World of believers lyes not in wickednesse , but is of God . Pr. That they must reconcile the Scriptures . Answ. The Scriptures cannot be broken , John . 10. 35. but is reconciled , and at unity in themselves , and in all those that know them , but he that gives two contrary meanings to one Scripture , he doth not go about to reconcile , but rather to pervert them , and to take away the plain testimony of truth , ( which they give ) from peoples understandings ; but the key of knowledge is found again , which opens the Scriptures in the mystery of them , and herein is the ignorance of teachers and people , in saying the Scriptures are not reconciled ; It is they that are not reconciled to God , nor the Scriptures , and so they utter forth their blindness , ignorance , and errour . Pr. That the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ , was not the Law of the spirit in the Saints ; but that they were two Laws . &c. Answer , This is a false distinction , for God hath said that he will write his law in their hearts , and put his spirit in their inward parts , and the same law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus , being in the Apostles hearts , had set him free from the Law of sin and death , Rom. 8. 2 so it was not two lawes , but one Law . Pr. That there are two righteousnesses of Christ , the one without the Saints , to justifie them , and the other within the Saints , that did sanctifie them . Answ. Christs righteousnesse is but one , and that by which they were both sanctified and justified was but one thing , even the Spirit of our God , 1 Cor. 6. 11. and Christ in them , was Gods righteousnesse , and the hope of Glory , who was made unto them righteousness ; and if Christ was in them , then his righteousnesse was in them or else he , and his righteousnesse is divided , as this Priests doctrine , would make them . Pr. The said Priest denied , that the Saints were justified by that Christ that was in them , ( when he was questioned about it . ) Answ. If they were not justified by that Christ that was in them , then by another Christ , which is no less then to Preach two Christ's , and so he hath preached another Gospel , then the Apostles preached , which whosoever doth , is accursed . Pr. That David , when he was guilty of adultery , and murther , was not in a condemned state but in a justified state . Answ. Here he would make God a justifier of the wicked in his wickednesse , but in that state David was condemned of the Lord , and suffered his anger , and terrors , when his iniquities went over his head , and were too heavy for him to bear , and he was not justified , until that thorow judgement , he was redeemed from the guilt of murther and adultery , and other sins which came over his head ; so such teachers as he , who would have God account them just , who are unjust , and them holy , who are unholy and unrighteous , are as the false Prophets , who put no difference between the holy and prophane , and spoke peace to the wicked , where there was no peace , counting them good , who did evil , saying they that doe evil are good in the sight of the Lord , Mal. 3. 15. as the Priests now say , though they be sinners , yet they are righteous in Gods account , so they would make God a lyar , accounting men to be that which they are not , and to be in Christ , when they are in sin , in the Devils work . Pr. And concerning them in Heb. 12. who were come unto the spirits of just men made perfect , he said it was meant , that they were in Heaven and not upon Earth . Answ. Thus by his false meanings , he hath often perverted the Scriptures , calling his false meanings , the meanings of the Holy-Ghost ; but these mentioned in Heb 12 were them the Apostle wrote unto upon earth , for he did not write to men after they were deceased , and these that he wrote unto , were come unto the innumerable company of Angels , and to the city of the living God , and to the spirits of just men made perfect . Pr. That any creature that holds that principle of being justified by a righteousnesse within , living and dying in that principle , cannot come to heaven . Ans Christ is the justifier of them that believe in him , and his doctrine is , I in them and they in me so Christ and his righteousnesse is in the Saints , and God hath brought in the everlasting righteousnesse , which justifieth , which is not at a distance , separate from the Saints , as these false teachers have Imagined . And the Apostles doctrine and principle is Christs in you , which whosoever liveth and dyeth in this , comes to heaven but on the contrary whosoever hath not Christ , and his righteousnesse in them to justifie them , cannot come to heaven . Pr. That , that which fitted , man for the inheritance ( among the Saints ) did not intitle to the inheritance , or not give them a part in the inheritance . Answ. This is contrary to the Apostles doctrine ; for he thanks God the Father who made them meet to be partakers of the inheritance with the Saints in light , Col , 1. ●● . for he both fitted them for the inheritance , and did intitle , and give them a part in the inheritance , translating them into the Kingdom of his dear Son , verse 13. Pr. That we cannot contain an Infinite righteousnesse in us . Ans Then you cannot contain the righteousnesse of God , for it is infinite , and everlasting , as in Daniel 9 24 and then you cannot contain Christ in you , who is Gods righteousnesse , and who is infinite , and so by this doctrine , he makes all reprobates , as all are who know not Christ in them ; for they who did not retain God in their knowledge , were given up to a reprobate sence . Pr. That it was false doctrine to say that a man must first partake of the Righteousnesse which justifies before it can be imputed to him as his . A. He hath here counted that false doctrine , which the Saints witnessed fulfilled in them , for the righteousnesse of God was imputed to the Saints in the true belief , whereby they did partake of Gods righteousness through faith , before ●t could be accounted theirs ; except that this Priest in his false meanings , would count that to be a mans which he hath no right to , nor part in ; for the faith wherein Abraham did partake of Gods righteousnesse , was reckoned to him for righteousnesse , and he unto whom God imputeth righteousnesse , in his spirit , there is no guile , though these Priests would impute righteousnesse to the wicked as theirs , who are full of guile , and sin , having no life , nor right in Gods righteousnesse , while they live quite out of it . Pr. That God offers salvation to all men , but he intends it but to a few . Answ. There he would frustrate the grace of God , and his salvation , which is free for all , and so he would make the Offers of Gods salvation to many thousands to no purpose , as if God proferred that to many which he never intended to give them , was there ever such a belying of God as this ? for what is it less then to make God a respecter of persons ? If all men by nature be in wickedness , & lyable to condemnation , as this Priest confessed , & yet salvation is intended but for a few , ( though offered to all ) How is God no respecter of persons ? and how is Christ given to be his salvation to the ends of the earth , & a light into the world that all men through him might believe ? and whosoever believeth in Christ shall not perish , but have everlasting life ; so that all may freely come , and be saved according to the love and will of God , who doth not intend that any shall perish , except they reject his way , and the offers of his grace , which hath appeared to all men . Pr. That a Minister of the Gospel doth not know who are elected . An. There he hath belyed the Ministers of the Gospel , for they could discern the elect from the world , as it is written , ye shall discern between him that serveth God , and him that serveth him not ; and Paul and Peter wrote to the elect ; so these teachers who know not the elect , and yet exhorts , all their hearers to believe , and lay hold on Christ , their preaching is in vain ; for if God have but intended a certain number to be saved , and the rest to be condemned , then they set their hearers a work in vain , and many to expect that which they are never like to have ; so these people are in a miserable state ; and note that these Priests though they take sums of mony , and tithes of their hearers in many parishes in this Nation , yet they know not who are elected among them according to this mans words . Pr. That the Sword of the Spirit is ineffectual without the Letter . Answ. The Sword of the Spirit is the Word of God ; which was effectual before the Letter was , to Enoch , to Isaac , to Jacob , to Abraham , and others ; and from the Word was the Letter given forth , and the Letter is not effectual without it . Pr. That there was no Scripture written , but what is extant , and in the Bible . Answ. Yes , against that shall the Scripture bear witness ; the book of Nathan the Prophet , the book of Ahaijah , the book of Iddo , 2 Chr. 9. 29. the book of Shemaia , 2 Chr. 20. 15. the book of Gad , 1 Chro. 29. 29. the book of Jehu , 2 Chro. 20. 3● . the book of Jasher , 2 Sam. 1. 18. the Prophesie of Enoch , Jud. ● . one Epistle of the Corinthians , 1 Cor. 3. 9. one Epistle to the Ephesians , Eph. 3. 3. one Epistle to the Laodiceans . Col. 4. All these Scriptures were given forth from the same Spirit , and to the same end and use , as those are , which are bound up in the Scriptures , although these be left out . Pr. That there was no Scripture nor writings appointed of God to be a Rule of Faith and manners , but what is bound up in the Bible . Answ. Those Scriptures which are not bound up in the Bible ▪ was given forth from the same Spirit , and by the motion of the Holy Ghost ; and so for the same ends and uses that the other Scripture was given forth for , and as he appointed the one , so the other . Pr. That the Letter doth antecede , and go before the Spirit in all that walked in the Spirit . Answ. This is false , for the Spirit did antecede the Letter , in all that walked in the Spirit , who gave forth the Letter from the Spirit . Pr. That the works of Christ in some respect are not perfect . Answ. That is false , for every gift of God is perfect and every work of Christ is perfect in all his children ; but that spirit in thee which is fallible makes nothing perfect , and therefore judgeth all things , yea , Christ and his works to be fallible and deceiveable , like it self . Pr. That the Law requires more strict and exact obedience then the Gospel . Answ. Nay , the Law saith , Thou shalt not commit adultery , but the Gospel saith , Thou shalt not lust ; the Law saith , Thou shalt n●● kill , but the Gospel saith , Thou shalt not be angry ; the Law saith , Thou shalt not forswear thy self , but the Gospel saith , Swear not at all , Mat. 5. And so the Gospel requires more exact obedience then the Law , contrary to this affirmation . P. That Christ chose a Devil to be one of his Ministers in chusing Judas ; and his proof for it is this , That the Divine nature did not see it good to communicate the knowledge of all things unto the humane nature , and therefore , although he was a Devil when he chose him , yet he knew it not . Answ. This is a charging of Christ with Ignorance , contrary unto John 2. 24. 25. which saith , That Jesus did not commit himself unto them , because he knew all men ▪ and needed not that any should testifie of man , for he knew what was in man ; and though Judas by transgression became a Devil , and the Devil abode not in the truth ; Doth it therefore follow that he was never in the truth ? But Christ speaks of him and to him , as well as to the rest , that they had power to cast out unclean spirits , Mat. 10. 1. And that the Spirit of the Father spoke in them , Mat. 10. 20. So that there was no difference , while the Spirit of the Father led him , and taught , till the Devil entered into his heart to betray that Lord of Life ; so that is a false charge , to say , that Christ sent out a Devil to Minister the Gospel . Pr. That the Spirit of God may accompany a Ministery , and the Minister not have the Spirit . Answ. This is another doctrine then ever the Prophets or Apostles preached ; for I never read in the Scriptures that ever any did Minister for God , which had not the Spirit , nor that ever any was converted unto God , by such a Minister as had not the Spirit . Therefore prove this assertion to the people , where , or when the Spirit of God did accompany that Ministery , when the Minister had not the Spirit ; so that thou maist as well , as thou hast said , not pretend unto any infallibility ( nor unto any truth in thy Ministry for if thou didst , people would see that thou didst pretend unto that , which thou art far from ; so that if thou wouldst not pretend to Minister neither , no more then to have the Spirit , it were better for thee . Pr. That the ●●wer that went forth in the Apostles Ministery , was in God and not in them , but as they have it communicated to them , by the exercise of Faith . Answ. Here thou hast confounded thy self ; for if they had it communicated to them , by their exercise of faith , then it was in them ; for the exercise of Faith is within , in the pure Conscience , and so the power was in them , from which they Ministred , and they did not abuse their power , but from the power Ministred forth their gift as they had received it . Thomas Rumsay , said , That we preach a doctrine of Devils , in saying , That men may be free from sin in this life . Answ. Then the Apostle Paul preached a doctrine of Devils ; for he said , Rom. 6. 2. How shall we that are dead to sin , live any longer therein ; and in the seventh verse , saith , He that is dead is free from sin ; and in the eighteenth verse , he saith to the Believers , being then made freefrom sin , Ye became the servants o● Righteousness ; and in the two and twentieth verse , he again tells them , That now being made free from sin , and become servants to God , you have four fruits unto holiness , and the end , Everlasting Life ; and this was spoken to the Romans while they were in this life , and it was not a doctrine of Devils , but the Doctrine of the Gospel ; and Christ preached the Doctrine of perfection in this life , Mat. 5 48. saying , Be ye perfect as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect ; and also it is written , Be ye Holy , for I am Holy , 1 Pet. ● . 16 ▪ And this is not a doctrine of Devils , but of Christ the Son of God ; and Paul preached Wisdom among thos● that were perfect ▪ Cor. 2. 6. and David preached the Doctrine of perfection in this life , saying , Mark the 〈…〉 ct man , and behold the u●●ight ▪ for the end of that man is peace Psal. 37. 37. Now David did not bid them , mark such a man as there was not ; so the Doctrine of perfe 〈…〉 , is that Doctrine which both the Prophets , Christ and Apostles preached , and so not the doctrine of Devils , if we preach the same ; but all those that preach up sin , and that men must live in it , and that they cannot be free from it , while upon earth , these are messengers of Sacan , and preach the doctrine of Devils ; and people needs not that doctrine , for they are willing enough to live in sin , without having it preached up , and being strengthened in it ; and that makes them so willing to pay the Priests such wages , for calling the proud , happy ; and those that work wickednesse , Saints , and Justified persons ; for without such wages , not a Priest in England would preach peace to them in their sins , but they would all be silent ; for if people come once to know Christ their Teacher , and he in them , the Hope of Glory , who saves his people from their sins , then no man will buy their merchandize any more ; but will come all to hear and learn of the Father , and come to witness his Covenant , and his Teachings , and shall not need that one teach another , saying , know the Lord ; For all shall know him , from the least to the greatest , Heb. 8. 11. and this shall all come to witness , that come to be Translated into the Kingdom of the dear Son of God ; and then shall they come to witness his Words , which is , the Lord from Heaven ; who saith , Be ye perfect , as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect , and be ye Holy , for I am Holy . And this is the voice from Heaven . THE END . 
A44838	----	The Common-wealtsh's [sic] remembrancer for discovery of the disturbers of her peace with a loving reproof to such offendors and a caveat to others to beware of them / by a friend to peace with truth and true liberty, R.H. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A44838 of text R6707 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing H3222A). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 78 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 18 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A44838 Wing H3222A ESTC R6707 13506286 ocm 13506286 99807 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A44838) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 99807) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 791:22) The Common-wealtsh's [sic] remembrancer for discovery of the disturbers of her peace with a loving reproof to such offendors and a caveat to others to beware of them / by a friend to peace with truth and true liberty, R.H. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. [2], 33 p. Printed for G. Calvert ..., London : 1659. Written by Richard Hubberthorn. Cf. Wing. Reproduction of original in Huntington Library. eng Solemn League and Covenant (1643) Church and state -- England -- Early works to 1800. Church and state -- Early works to 1800. A44838 R6707 (Wing H3222A). civilwar no The Common-wealtsh's [sic] remembrancer for discovery of the disturbers of her peace. With a loving reproof to such offendors. And a caveat Hubberthorn, Richard 1659 15315 46 0 0 0 0 0 30 C The rate of 30 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the C category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2004-12 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2004-12 Aptara Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-01 Rachel Losh Sampled and proofread 2005-01 Rachel Losh Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion THE COMMON-WEALTH's REMEMBRANCER FOR DISCOVERY OF THE Disturbers of her Peace . WITH A loving Reproof to such Offendors . AND A Caveat to others to beware of them . By a Friend to Peace , with Truth , and true Liberty , R. H. LONDON Printed for G. Calvert , and are to be sold at the Black-spread-Eagle , near the West end of Pauls , 1659. The Common-Wealth's Remembrancer , for discovery of the Disturbers of her PEACE . FRiends and People , you have divers years been under the Rod , chastised by the Almighty for amendment , and many of you seen his Great and Marvellous Works done amongst you , even in the view of some that remain as Brands pluckt out of the Fire , and have need of Monitors to remember them of their Leader therein , and there-thorow , least matters of less moment cause him to slip out of their minds . But I am here chiefly ( by way of Queries ) to put you in remembrance how to consider of , and find out the Enemies of your Peace , Rights , and true Liberties , with their End● therein , ( as manifested by their Actions ) yet onely so , as if it concerned some other persons , ( and not your selves ) least you should be misguided thereby , and not rightly discern between persons and things that differ , nor the Designs of such as lye in wait to deceive ; wherein all plainness is ( in love and a publike way ) used for their Reproof , Repentance , and Amendment , and your Care and Caution to prevent the like for the future , when truly sensible of what is but in part past ; and herein also take heed of being hasty to censure , least you miss of the Authors meaning , and the benefit hereby intended you , and take offence before you know by whom the offence cometh , and what that is in you that is so offended ; for Offences do come , and the Wo is to them by whom they come , not to him that in love mentions them for amendment and , caution to others therein concerned . Are not such to be considered who spend a great part of the yearly encrease of your Lands , Stock and Labours , ( in riotous living ) as they can contrive to get it from you , either by force or fraud , to uphold themselves in Authority over your Souls , Bodies and Estates , so as not to suffer you to come or go , buy or sell , dwell or abide in Peace , unless you give them what they ask , fall own and worship before them , and ( at their pleasures ) bea● , 〈…〉 e forth of your Meetings , stone , impris●● , 〈◊〉 otherwise abuse persons that ( for conscience sake towards God ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but declare against them as evil doers , the great Enemies of Peace , Christs Righteousness , and your Souls , former●y called P●●sons , V●c 〈…〉 s , ●urates , Priests , Clarks , &c. 〈…〉 themselves Ministers , or Presbyters ; but how like Ministers ( 〈◊〉 , servants ) divers of them have behaved themselves ( towards God or man ) in former times , Histories shew ; and in ●atter times , your own Memories ( even woful experience ) may be to you a true Testimony ; Assuming to themselves the sa●d Title of Presbyter , with Authority to 〈◊〉 and ordain others by laying their fleshly hands upon such other persons heads ; and saying some invented forms or Words over them , all by a carnal Commandment at 〈…〉 Head of their Church cut off , the Root extirpate● because bad and bitter ? and are the Branches sweet , and the Fruit good Food for nourishment ? Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean ? Now let all such as feel themselves truly touched and pinched by that of God in their consciences , 〈◊〉 in their minds , and wait diligently on him that the●e smiteth them and sheweth them their deeds of what sort they a●e , and would cleanse them from all unrighteousness ; but if such harden their hearts , and endeavour to excuse themselves by accusing others , then own Rod vv●ll be their ruine . The ensuing Queries ( I suppose ) concern not all alike , but some more , some less ; some in many , and some but in few of the ensuing particulars , and so to be remembred and soberly considered , the Great Contrivances having alwayes been by a few leading Priests , and then afterwards carryed on by a more general Consent , Concurrance and Activity of others , with some contradict●on amongst themselves , and that being p●st , soon ( like Herod and Pilate ) they became friends to p 〈…〉 e ●●e the Righteous Seed and Son of God in his innocent and beloved Lambs , their main business being to supp●ess the Power of godliness , and every thing of conscience contrary to their humane Inventions and Constitutions , thereby to keep you in darksome ignorance , and a superstitious , awful reverence of persons , places and things , ever to take advantage against you , and put Chains and Fetters upon those that have the true zeal of God in some things above others , striving by all means to break that zeal , and bring under that Spirit in the Lords Servants ( what ever it cost them ) least they should ( by that ) be discovered and made manifest , and therefore ever seeking to keep under and out of Authority all such persons and men of sober , serious , and publike spirits , strict lives and manners , and to get preferred into Authority others of servile spirits , that have a mixture of ambition and vain glory , with other Vices fit to serve and support them and their Authority over men of tender consciences , and cause the faithful upright , and just , to be derided , scorned , abused and vilified , as in former and latter times is most manifest to all persons whose minds are not dark , troubled , and blinded by their deceivable inventions . 1. Whether the said men are taught by , and come to you in the Wisdom , Will , Power and Authority of God , or of man ? And what Rule have they to walk by , save onely Interpretations , Inventions , Meanings , and Conclusions , raised and composed ( by themselves and others ) as out of , and from the Scriptures , to justifie their Doctrines , Precepts , Practices , and Conversations ? And do they agree with the Servants of Christ , or one with another , ( all speaking the same things ? ) Or are they not therein contrary , and one contrary to another , and different , according to the times , occasions , and respective Governments , one while praying , preaching , and contending for a Religion , Way or T●in● , and at other times , otherwise , or against the same , frequently intermedling with Affairs of Civil Government , and other mens private Concernments and Conditions , thereby occasioning strife and debate amongst you . Who , or what was it that confounded your understandings , disquieted your minds , and exasperated your spirits ( so exceedingly ) one against another in the beginning and continuance of these late Wars and Troubles , ( the sad effects whereof you yet in part feel ) as to begin with those sports and pastimes whereof they had Books , which they generally read and published in their Meeting-Houses , ( called Churches ) about the latter part of King James's his Reign , for Encouragement of Minstrels , Dancings , Revellings , May-Games , Stage-Plays , Morris-Dancers , and such like Exercises to be frequently performed on the first Days of the Week , ( called Sabbath Days ) to the high dishonor of God , ( whom they those days also would seem especially to Worship and serve ) and grief of the persons then scornfully called Puritans , and others the sober minded amongst you , which then were by that means cruelly mocked , contemned , scorned , despitefully used and abused , because they ran not with others into the same excess of riot ; and ( those of you that remembers these things ) consider who the prophane , the then irreligious and vicious persons did applaud and rejoice in , for publishing , encouraging , and joining with the said Exercises they then called lawful sports and pastimes . 2. From whence , and by whose Ordination , Concurrence and Agreement ( in the late Kings reign ) were the then Altars ? and by whose Practice , Example , and Commands , the frequent bowings thereto , and at such distinct distances and differnt manners , with other the Inventions and Actions then and there performed with so great zeal for their new high places , Rails , Garments , and other Innovations ? And who were they that in those performances , and in visiting Crosses , Wells , and other places , in Preambulations , singing the Letany , &c. were adorned with Canonical Coats , Girdles , Surplices , Rockets , Tippits , Hoods , and the like , besides the great reverence said to be due to their persons , Office and Ministry , which ( their Followers ) were directed to manifest by distinct Bowings , standings up , and kneelings down before them , when , and as they pleased to teach , order , and command to be performed in their Meeting-Houses and elsewhere ? 4. Who were they that ( as the aforesaid services were increased ) flockt to London , Westminster , and Lambeth , to have their Wages also increased to ten Groats ▪ or at least eight Groats out of each pound of every mans Lands , Stock , and Labours , and a part of poor servants Wages , not then esteeming Tythes , G●ebe-Land , and other their Offerings , Incombs , and several plurallities , a competent or sufficient maintenance ; but they ( being over hasty therein , and the time not judged seasonable ) failed in that particular , and then what frequent Counsels and Consultations held those men in the several Count●es and corners of the Land ( under colour of Lectures , Em●er-Week-●asts , and otherwise ) to consider of , consult , and find out s●nse other way for Augmentation to their Authority and Maintenance ? 4. Who were they that began and continued such , and so many vexations Suits in Law with their Patrons , Parishioners , and others , wherewith the Courts at Westminster , the Great Assizes in Counties , and other Inferior Courts were even pestered ( as Records may manifest ) besides their frequent Suits and Summons before , and in the then Bishope Courts , sometimes for small Tythes , working upon some Popish Holy Days , ( though but in repairing a Fence to save Corn , and preserve peace amongst Neighbours ) for not g●ving them timely notice when Tythes were to be set forth to them ; for going from some of them to hear in other Parishes ; for Meetings ( by them called Conventicles ) or for not allowing Servants to join in the before mentioned sports and pastimes , and oft times obtaining Excommunications therefore , and speedily turning them into Writs , and thereby causing mens bodies to be attached and imprisoned , whereby many consciencious persons were ( in a manner necessitated to leave their dwellings , and this Land , to seek peaceable Habitations elsewhere , which divers of the said active persons made use of as an encouragement to their then design , some boasting thereof , and that they hoped to have another Authority before it were long , wherein their labours have not been lacking , neither at their then High Commission Court , nor other places , as hath notably appeared to all that have been willing to see it . Who served , assisted , and encouraged the late Bishops in making the Cannons , Liturgy , and Service-Book , ( little differing from the Mass-Book ) to be imposed upon Scotland , and preached against the Scots , ( when that Book was refused by them , endeavouring to make them , their Religion and practise seem odious , & their own ( new-invented ) Altar Worships , forms and bown● , acceptable services to God , thereby then obtaining a Declaration against the Scots , whereby ( with great zeal ) they proclaimed them Rebels ; and after that a Form of Prayer against them , which divers of the said men as zealously read and seemed to pray in their said Meeting-houses . And who ( after that ) preached up an Army of Londoners and others , to enforce the said Book upou the Scots ; and for the maintenance of those Forces , did the like to have Ship-Mony paid by you ; as also concerning Grants to Pattentees , and pleading for such and other Monopolies and Arbitrary Inventions , all oppressive to tender consciences ? Besides the many Articles ( the Bishops and they ) then set forth , so numerous and contradictory that they could not be performed by the Church-Wardens ( so called ) whom they caused ( or rather forced ) to swear to present men by ; nor could others find how to escape the Snares thereby laid for them . 6. Who , or what sort of men continued the Convocation-House ut Westminster about the year 1640. ( after the then Parliament was dissolved ) by a Commission obtained of the then King , ( under the Name or Title of a Synod ) and thereat made new Constitutions , Canons , &c. Armed with Censures , Deprivations , and Excommunications , whereat was the then new Oath made for establishing their usurpations , and to justifie their Altar-Worships , Inventions and Innovations ? And who of them there imposed that great Tax upon themselves in general , and on divers others , for the raising of more Forces ( as an Additional-army ) to go against the Scots , and procured divers of their Creatures to go , and send forth men Horses and Arms , to carry on that their Design , all contrary to Law , and your Rights and Liberries , and ( for the raising of those differences ) so far prevailed , as to obtain the discountenancing and putting out of favour , trust and office in the Common-Wealth , divers of the most consciencious , sober , discreet , and fit persons for those services , and thereupon procuring others ( that they knew would comply with them ) to be setled in such Offices and Imployments , thereby uniting a sort of the Nobility and Gentry to themselves , as also the generality of the prophane , ignorant & negligent professors ; but these then call'd Puritans they found themselves unable to seduce . Have I need to remember you , or ask you concerning the charge of those Forces , what , or how many hundred thousand pounds was paid the said Scots afterwards , or who paid it ; or of those other Matters of dangerous consequence , ( by the said Convocation or Synod contrived ) whereof all other sorts of persons ( besides themselves ) have sufficiently tasted ? Or how they so continued acting until the next Parliament call'd them to account , and punished some few of them , but the generallity escaped , and ever since have stood in the way of , and endeavoured to prevent all just proceedings tending to your Rights and Liberties ? Was not your fire hereby kindled , unto which the Authors have ever since been adding Fuel of one kind or other , to this very day ? Were they not of this sort of men that made Libels against the Parliament in the year 1642. imputing it as a crime that the King was not then believed , and those with him trusted , several ways charging them , and provoking the people to disobey that Authority , supposing to carry on their design by interrupting and preventing the Parliaments proceedings in order to your Rights and Liberties . 7. Who were they that seeing they could not be advanced by means of the Bishops , preached against , railed on , and earnestly endeavoured to have them supprest , ( whom but little before they prayed for , as their Right Reverend Fathers ) saying , The Bishops did them wrong by taking upon them as they did ; that as Presbyters they ( the said men ) ought to have been authorized and called for to join in the choice and ordination of Ministers ? Did it not thereupon generally ring in their Sermons , That Presbytery is the true Clergy , and the Church of Scotland a true Church ; then contending for the Scots and Scottish Religion ( which but a little before they cryed outagainst , and also proclaimed the Scots Rebels , and prayed against them ) because that then seemed their hopeful way of rising into the like Authority as the Bishops had , each to be at least a Master , Bishop , or Presbyter in his Parish , and the chief men there , his Lay-Elders ; and yet herein they did not then very well agree amongst themselves . 8. What sort of men , and who were they that divided themselves ( as nncertain whether by the help of Rome or Scoeland , might be their readiest way of rising into Authority and Estates ) into several Parties , and by Writing , Praying , Preaching , and pressing Arguments , perswading you to go forth from your dwellings , some to fight ●or the King , some for the Parliament , others taking all advantages in their Parish-Meetings , and elsewhere , to stir up discontents and enmity in your spirits one against another , thereby hasting you into a bloody and desperate War one party against another ? And what was this for , but the obtaining of their ends by the first Way of Rome , or the other of Scotland ? Either of which ( it seemed ) would have served their turns to maintain them ( their Wives and Children in ease , pride and idleness ) with Authority to punish all such as should presume to contradict them , or deny what they would have by way of tythes or otherwise , or impose any publike Charges on them : Thus prevailing with you to enlist your selves into two great Bodyes or Armyes one against another , and by several inventions and execrations against those that were afraid or unfree to go forth in Arms to shed the blood of their Neighbours , Brethren , Fathers , &c. one party of the said men crying , Come forth , fight for God and your King , the Lords annointed , and the Protestant Religion ; come forth willingly , you fear not God unless you serve and honor your King . The fearful shall have their portion in the Lake , &c. ( said another party . ) Come forth , fight for Christ , your Religion , Laws , and Liberties , &c. And a third party so on both sides by Preaching , Praying and Writing , as they stood affected , and as either Army came near their beings : I say , Was not this the means used ? And who were those men that then took this way to beget and encrease your enmity and hatred one against another , so between nearest Relations as is scarce to be found or named amongst sober men , ( such as some call Heathens , that have but natural affections ) to the end that through these storms they might find out an easie way to their desired Haven , wherein to sport themselves , and rant it over other persons souls , bodies , and estates , and this all under colour and vizard of Religion , duty to God , and your good ; so must the King ( by some of these men ) be perswaded to take Oaths and Protestations , and set forth Declarations that all he did was for the Protestant Religion and your Liberties , thereby to strengthen his Party , and perswade you to believe it ; and also perswaded him to seem to comply in several Treaties with the Parliament , even to the very last at the Isle of Wight , &c. Shall I need to ask , or remember you how active some of these men were in plundering on each side , and encouraging Officers & Souldiers thereto , under pretence of weakning that party they set themselves against ? Or of the Contrivances , Means and Friends , many of them made use of to get into each others Livings or Benefices ( if greater then they had before ) of some , thereby so entering into two or three such Benefices ? Or how divers of these men strove to give content to both Armies , to pray for , preach for , and sometimes give thanks on either side , as they come near the places of such mens residence , and either had prevailed in any storm or Victory , or did but say so : Were not some then so forward as to commend any killing of English men on the one side or other , for exrellent service , and thereupon rejoice and give thanks ( as they call'd it ) in somuch that sometimes there hath been such Thanksgivings and Rejoicings on both sides for one and the same Victory ? Or shall I need to remember you of their Railings , Revilings , and evil● speakings against those they call'd Antinomians , Anabaptists , Arminians , Sectaries , Schismaticks , Hereticks , &c. Or some of these mens petitioning against such sundry times , blowing the Coles on both sides the fire , as they got room , and still adding Fuel thereto , for their design sake , when a fit opportunity might serve , the particulars whereof ( when collected ) may swell to a very great Volume ; which Work ( its like ) may be by some other more diligent observer thereof , their Ways and Deeds of darkness being not easily discerned , and therefore I mention some most obvious , least they should think them altogether buryed in oblivion , and continue impenitent , and you in security . Let me here add this also , ( not to be forgotten ) that the Parliament were necessitated for your , and their own safeties , rights , and liberties , to call upon you to enlist and maintain each other in a defensive way , when the late King had set up his Standard , and proclaimed a War in his own Land , amongst , and against his own Subjects , was not this the real difference between his Case , and their endeavours for you ; but how far that will justifie any the aforesaid mens designs , I leave to you to consider of , and them to the light of Christ in the conscience , &c. Which of these parties of this sort of men are your Ministers of Christ ? Or did he or his Ministers at any time so seek to destroy mens lives ? 9. When many of the aforesaid sort of men saw they were not like to obtain their desires by the King in the way of Rome , What Art , Industry , and Diligence did they use in their next design to have the help of their said Brethren of Scotland , which they saw could not be plausibly carried on and established to their Wills without some consultations about it , and therefore would needs have it by an Assembly of themselves , which they called a Synod or Assembly of Divines , scarce taking rest until they were so owned , ( though called together upon their entreaties , only to offer their humble Advice to the Parliament ) and how Authoritatively did they then act , ( as if they had been again in Convocation as , and with Bishops ) and as if no man were to doubt of their Determinations , or question their contrivances , some Writing , and others speaking as in Acts 15. that it might be said of their proceedings , It hath seemed good to the Holy Ghost , and to them , to order , direct , &c. so that every man should receive rules from them in all things pertaining to the Worship and Service of God : But he that sits in Heaven laughs them to scorn . It is ( also ) like many of you may remember what great hast they then made to have their Decrees established accordingly , and bow they took their opportunities for it , when divers Members of Parliament were imployed in the Countrey and Army , their favourites ( for the most part ) being then in the House , thereby to settle themselves so , as to be able ( with assistance of their Lay-Elders they would chuse ) sufficiently to Master , and deal with all Sectaries and other persons that should prove refractory , or any way disobedient to them or their Decrees , either by their Parochial ; Classical , Provincial , or National Inquisition , or High Commission Courts . 10. Is it here requisite to be remembred what Charge that Synod was to you at 4. s. per . diem each man , and large Benefices , besides the Allowances given to some of them by the Committee they obtained , called , The Committee for plundered Mi●isters , when few of them were plundered ; and in case some one of many did lose that way , he must be speedily and sufficiently repaired out of your moneys , or else that would serve for a railing Theme , to fill up divers of their Hour-Sermons . Are not these persons the now great Plunderers in all parts of the Common-Wealth , forcibly taking ( and causing to be taken ) away mens Corn , Cattel , and other Goods , what , and when they please , under colour of their Office and Ministry , and nevertheless now prevailed to have their said Committee revived as for plundered Ministers , whiles thousands of poor , ( whereof divers have been plundered , and remain without any relief ) not onely vvant Bread , but Imployments vvhereby to labour for the relieving of themselves , Wives and Children . But what at last did the said Assembly or Synod bring forth but a National Covenant , a Chatechize , and a dead Directory for the living God to be worshipped by , with their establishing themselves as rightly ordained before by the Bishops , and a new Way , Method , and Manner of ordaining others , wherein their Brother Calamy led them to begin with seven young men in his Meeting-house at Aldermanbury in London , for an introduction into that new devised Way and Worship , ( wherein the Lord God is not so mock'd , however they deceive themselves and others : ) but as for any Benefit , Commodity , or Advantage unto you concerning your souls or bodies , that seemed not their business ; neither would they willingly then ( nor since ) suffer other persons to do their duties therein , and deal plainly with you concerning your souls , ( when they could or can prevent it ) lest they should thereby lose their praise with men , their Fame , & fat Benefices ; for they wel know that when you shall withdraw your breath from them , they presently wither , dye , and become as empty Idols , so that all men will then see whereof they are made ; but while you put into their mouths , ( what they would have ) fit your selves in gay and gaudy Apparel , and so fall down and worship before them , own them ( because of their Book-Learning ) to be the onely persons to speak to you from God , and to God for you , give your Honors , Wisdoms , Wealth and strength ( that the Lord God hath given you for his service ) to them for the service of their lusts , ( and excessive pride of their Wives and Children ) and pay all Military Taxes and other-like Charges for them ; and they have the Gleab-Lands , Tythes , Stocks , Estates and Incombs ( they get from you ) altogether free to maintain them in ease and idleness , ( without working with their hands ( the thing that is good ) and eating their own Bread ) when many of the poor amongst you ( labouring and toiling hard ) must pay Contributions and Taxes over and above what may , or can be well spared from the thin backs , and hungery bellies of their Wives and Children ; I say , While you thus do , no wonder if you continue in blindness , errors , and ignorance , without the knowledge of God ( to your shame ) and neither see , nor desire to be free from these afflictions they bring upon you , which on you are just that so uphold and maintain the Enemies of Christ , of your own souls , and the Nations peace . Need I yet further remember you how some of them have strugled for , and got Augmentations to their former Benefices ? How divers also have got fifty pounds each man to carry them for Ireland , and when there 100. l. or 200. l. by the year , and some more for preaching , or rather deceiving that people with their lying Inventions , and causing punishments to be inflicted upon those that shall therein contradict them , whereby it is evident that whosoever hath gained by these times of Trouble , they have not lost theereby , nor their favourites failed them therein , though it is , or may be clearly seen , that far greater things have been expected by them . 11. You may not forget the said Solemn League and Covenant , nor need I further tel you who brought forth that birth , and gave it that Name , as also sometimes calling it the Oath of God , and National Covenant , ( as their Brethren of Scotland had ) but so cunningly contrived of ambiguous Words and Terms , to answer all the Authors ends , as no Antinomian , Independen , Anabaptist , Seeker , or other Sectary ( by them so called ) or person ( in any kind or sort differing from them ) might find a way to escape out of their net , with full confidence also that they ( the said Authors ) should be the onely Interpretors thereof , whereby they might turn the sence and meaning , any way at any time , or on any occasion to serve their turns , and teach their younger Brethren to doe the like , assuring themselves that none they call'd Lay persons ought or would presume to interpret or give the Meaning of any part of so Excellent a Piece of their workmanship ; and then how highly did they extoll that new Idol ( their Covenant ) and preach'd it up , as a thing so absolutely necessary that none ought to refuse it , remaining as restless untill they had prevailed with most of the Members of Parliament to lift up their hands to it , and subscribe it , and therewith got the stamp of Authority upon it , That all men in the Nation should be called , to lift up their hands to the most high God , before that Covenant , and swear &c , and then how was the sound of that solemn League and Covenant in every mans ears ( of Cities , Town , Countrey and Army ) by the makers thereof , and their younger Brethren riding and running from place to place , from one part of the Army to another , in all hast to surprise men thereby , eagerly pressing , and earnestly perswading men speedily to take that solemn Oath ; and many that could not be so brought under their yoke must be enforced thereto , some by losse of Estates or liberty , others by losse of their Places , Offices and Imployments , and all refusers thereof stiled Malignants and enemies to the Common Wealth ( though many such refusers were then with their Swords and lives as in their hands for the Parliament and your Liberties ) whereby divers of your friends and faithfull servants were displaced and rejected as Offenders , and then under this Cloak and Mask ( of naming the most high God and that Covenant ) all other their inventions must be sheltered , ushered in , and carried on , and the greatest part of their Sermons be of the excellency of your so entering into Covenant ( as they said ) with God , and of the benefits thereby accruing to them that so did , and the danger of refusing such an opportunity so to do ; and this being thus carried on to the height , in the next place they could tell you how the Oath of God was upon you , how you had lifted up your hands to God , and of the great Danger of breaking Covenant with him , with their then new sense and Meaning thereof ( according to the then occasion ) to be observed upon the highest penalties , although it may be boldly asserted , and let that of God in every mans Conscience answer him , whether themselves that made it ( taking them severally and jointly ) or any other persons ( that took it ) then did , or yet do understand it , so as to say positively , this and no other is the meaning of any one of the six branches thereof , the interpretations thereupon may be , and are so particularly various : Neither is it to be supposed that the Contrivers thereof ever intended it should be understood by any man , but that all should admire it , and be satisfied with their respective meanings thereupon , however differing therein , not onely one from another at one and the same time , but on all occasions using the same as a Ladder to climb up into Authority over your souls , bodies and estates , ( more generally and Tyrannically then the later Bishops exercised ) could they have gotten up to their intended height . And were not some of these the men that stirred up discontents in the Citizens of London against divers faithfull men there intrusted with the Militia , perswading that none were fit to have to do with the Militia in that City , that were then of the Parliaments Army ( they call'd Sectaries ) or disaffected to the ends of their said Covenant , holding forth this Covenant to make way for them in all their Designs , new Canons , Constitutions , Directorie , &c. whereby their Congregationall , Classicall , Provinciall and Nationall Courts were to take their Rise , and be established to enslave and vex you with continuall suits and attendance from one of their said Courts to another , and all under the specious pretence of Religion , Rules and Ordinances for the worship and service of God , and good of his Church ? 12. When the faithfull servants of the Common-Wealth ( in the Army and elsewhere ) were discouraged , and divers of them displaced ( as aforesaid ) where , or what sort of men procured also the bringing into these places many loose , prophane , and disorderly persons that could complie , take Oaths and Covenants as directed ? And were not the Parliaments then three Armies thereby speedily brought into a kind of Confusion amongst themselves , and rendred unfit for your service , and on the other hand the King not onely became Master of the considerable Garrisons , but also of the field it selfe and was it not ( even then ) many of these mens great cry : that God was against the Armies ▪ and they prospered not , because their Covenant was not generally taken , and strictly observed , and that the Government of the Church was not established ( as they advised and directed ) whereupon the Parliament was necessitated to take notice of the approaching danger to themselves & ( you the Lord in mercy directing ) then drew forth of those three Armies one intire Army , and therein again imployed these faithfull and valiant men ( that before were so put forth ) and others like faithfull persons were therewith joined , and united hearts and hands together , under their then truly noble , faithfull and self denying Generall , their Lieutenant Generall , and Major Generall , and other like Officers , and obedient valiant Soldiers , to the great and generall dissatisfaction of those Covenant Makers ; yet still they presse to have their Covenant enforced upon that Army also , as knowing no other way to break it , and that at such time when ( under God ) the very safety and externall welfare of this Common-wealth lay at the stake upon that Armies Proceedings , and here none else to stand in the gap , &c. and when some of the said Covenant-Makers ( and others of that sort ) had by their endeavours ( as was then said ) prevailed with the Scots Officers and other old Souldiers to withdraw themselves from , and leave that Army , as designed for destruction , ( whereof the Lord of Hosts was pleased to make another manner of use contrary to their expectations ) and when that Design took not , how shamelesly did divers of those men rail against , revile and asperse that Army , labouring by all means to bring an Odium upon it , by false Reports and slanders ; and who were they that then prevailed with the said Scottish Officers and others to wait in London and Westminster untill they should see the destruction of that Army they call'd the inconsiderable number of Rawheads new Noddle , &c. whom ( said some ) the Kings Party will soon make an end of , and then the said Officers would be sought to , might make their own conditions , & be imploy'd according to their desires . What should I say more of the railing accusations then brought against that Army they called Sectaries , prophesying the ruine of the whole , &c. in case these men were continued in Arms , thereby to weaken all hands in the time of the Parliaments greatest weakness , how many of these troubles , did manifest their grief and sorow of heart when they understood the King prevailed not against that army ( they called sectaries ) at Naseby fight ; ( much taken notice of , in , and about the said Cities at that time , ) whereby it is evident that these ( of that sort of men ) with the King , and others from him , were then indifferently agreed any way to do their own business , as hath appeared since , to your sorrow , sad sufferings , and loss . 13. Who were they that held correspondence one with another , and employed spyes in all parts of the land under colour of getting intelligence of errours and heresies , held ( as they said ) by some Officers and others of that Army , which one called Dr. Edwards ( a Priest then in London did especially manage ; and what strange things had they thereby invented to charge that Army with , and which were then put into print in severall books ( one after another ) by the said Edwards , called his Gangreens , stuft with Mistakes , forged inventions , and filthy lies , stil pressing their Covenant to prevent Errours and Heresies , as they said , and labouring with the Parliament for an Ordinance to inhibit privat Meetings , ( they called Conventicles , as the late Bishops had done ) which they had oft before sought for , when the former Armies were at a distance from London and they supposed the time seasonable , but as oft prevented by some considerable losses in the Army or forces , when in any measure the Parliament incline to such persons therein . And who ( about the same time ) stirred up those called the Clubmen in many parts of the Land ( and some priests with them ) under colour of defending themselves , and estates from plunderers , even when this sort of men saw the Parliament like to prevail , and their ends not accomplished ? 14. Whose designe was it to have the late King carried to the Scots , when the whole Nation was even brought ( almost ) into obedience of the Parliament , and great hopes of a speedy settlement ( As supposing themselves sure that way to make their own market by and with him ? ) and who were they that so earnestly perswaded to have the said Army speedily Disbanded , ( when the King was bought and brought , back againe from the Scots , and nothing else seemed to stand in their way ) perswading there was then noe need of that Army , and noe way would serve to Disband it , but by troops & companies , apart one from another , before due satisfaction given them , or any satisfaction of them in what they had done , or any the Rights and liberties , ( for which so much blood had been spilt , and Treasure spent ) so much as ascertained , much lesse setled and established , unto you and them , arguing that the great Taxes might then be much abated , bloody Ireland relieved by these that should after be enlisted under other Commanders for that Service ; some souldiers goe back to their former imployments , and others ( of their chusing ) be imployed here by this meanes to have broken all in pieces , and set one party against another , rather then to fail of their intendments , further pleading how dangerous it was to continue that army , or to send them together for Ireland under their own Officers , how soon they would so conquer Ireland , and fill that land with sectaries , and then how should they be dealt with here at that armies return , when their doctrine should likewise further spread over England ; some saying ( though they could not but confess that God had manifestly appeared in , and by them , and they had done great services ) they were not to be continued , and therfore nothing could satisfie but such a disbanding as might disperse , & discourage them &c. whereupon some officers of the said Army , and souldiers , having notice of the design , the designers prevalency , and evil consequences thereof to the whole Nation , advised together how to draw up a Petition to their then General for satisfaction in a few particulars , whereof some of the said persons got intelligence , and without any certaine knowledge what the said Officers intended to Petition for , first had an Order got to suppress the said Petition , and thereupon a Theme to preach of , and cry out of dangerous principles in the Army , and designs to oppose the covenant , labouring to have the Petitioners censured as enemies to the State ; and how then , and by whom did the slanderous libels and Pamphlets fly abroad , divers Officers of the Army imprisoned , and after released without being told the cause of their commitment ; and when ( in much mercie to this Nation ) they were prevented therein , how did some prevaile with divers Londoners to prepare a Remonstrance against the army , and then stirred up Refarmado Officers and others , to enlist men , and there got up another Army , and prevaild so far as to have the Militia there taken out of the hands of faithful men , and put into other hands to carry on their designe by heading forces against the Army , and set on foot a new war which might have proved more bloody , and terrible , then that before ; but the Lord of all the earth pleased to turn their counsels ( like that of Achitophels ) into foolishness , and direct the Army ( in obedience to the Parliament ) to do their duties soberly , so as that ( in a mild way of prevention ) things were brought back into their former condition of peace , and the said Militia againe into safe hands . 15. Who in the next place procured the said Reformado Officers , ( whereof some had been disbanded , some cashiered , and some served the King , ) with divers Londoners to force the Parliament to pass several votes , &c. which was so great a breach upon the priviledges of Parliament , as that the Speakers and members of both the then houses were necessitated to repaire to their said Army for safety , and when returned ( at their then next free sitting to recal these votes so by these pastwhile under that force , and also dispersed these Offisers ( so made use of to put that force upon them ) but the many Contrivers & Abettors escaped , though much then spoken of , because of the State of affairs at that time ; but rested they here ? or did they not rather wait for other oppertunities wherein the Lord by his wise providence prevented them sundry times ? yet for all this they were not willing to see his hand stretched out against them , and turn to him , neither do they yet seem willing : now all you that in any measure are turned into the light , brought into the fear of the Lord , and did see his mercy and marvelous works in these times , forget not all his benefits , his deliverances ( in your low estates ) from intended deaths , when that Army was so despised and railed on ( by scorners that oft sought their lives to take them away ) low and weak in their own esteem , then did the Lord strengthen and put courage into his servants that truly trusted in him , and believed his salvation , cleaving unto him , and one to another with all their hearts ; Yea truly then blessed were they , while many others before mentioned were exercised in cursing them , and sorrowing at their safeties , and successes , and when the Lord enabled ten to chase hundred , and a hundred to put a 1000. to flight , for that was the Lords doing , & marvelous in the eyes of many beholders , being in order to the great war ( manifestly begun ) between Michael and his Angels , and the Dragon and his Angels , in this day of God almighty , to the terror and amazemen of all enemies that would not Christ should reign over them , but stand in the enmity , equally fearing , and hating the goodniss , wisdome , and mighty power pf God in his sons and daughters . 16. Who , and what men were they that in the heat and height of these Military affaires , and taxes upon you , were so restless , until they obtained an ordinance for tythes , ( with trebble damages , or value for non-payment ) fo far prevailing , that those who had not wherewith to pay should be imprisoned &c. he that remembers these things need not be farther advertised of that sort of mens practices , or prevalency that could obtaine such an ordinance ( never before heard of ) at such a time , in such a manner , and only upon their bare words , that tithes are due to them , that they are the Ministers of Christ , or that tithes are ordained by him for their maintenance , &c. being a task they never could , nor now ( by Scriptures ) dare take upon them to prove , but they can tell you one while that they are due to them by Divine right , another while by some authority of man ( though noe act of man makes them due ; but supposing them due did order the setting forth thereof ) that their predecessors received tythes of their parishoners for many generations ; that tythes are not now to be questioned ; that several Parliaments have Judged them due , & ordered payment accordingly ; that the Israelites paid tythes by special command from God , and would you ( now under the Gospel ) pay less to Christs ministers ? that Gleab lands and tythes are their free-holds &c. while all is but deceit and covetousness ; for they have no colour to demand any thing , but as Officers or servants for performing service , and that from the Persons they serve , and during such respective times as allowed , and therein continued ; but as for Christs work or wages , they neither know the one , nor will be contented with the other . 17. Who were they that encouraged the raising of forces in London , and the adjacent counties , as also in Wales , and other parts , and that then took and caused Oaths to be taken ( with him they call'd Lord Capel , and other Officers for the King ) and gave their assistance therewith against the Parliament accordingly , and about the same time held correspondency with them of the Kirk , or Clergy of Scotland , whereupon an Army of Scots were raised and came ( under command of Duke Hambleton ) to join with others here , and invade this Land , hasting so far● towards London , as Stafford-shire , before the Parliaments Forces could meet with them by the then directions given therein ; and what , or who occasioned the long dispute between the Nobility and said Kirk of Scotland , whether should appoint a Commander in chief of that Army , some of that sort of men here being not ashamed to say , that Duke Hambleton died a Martyr ? ( It is is like they meant for that intended service ) and who were they that deluded the late King by their Sermons , and otherwise seem to accomplish , but not to consent to severall things proposed to him by the Parliament ; some telling him it stood not with his honor as a King , so to yield to his Parliament ; asking him whether he would make himself a Subject , &c. and at other times so craftily acting and advising between both ( for their own ends ) untill he was thereby brought to his last gasp ? and who in like manner lull'd asleep , and misled the Parliament severall times , untill , & c ? And who since have prevailed with , and misled their late Great Benefactor and Protector , and those with him , untill he also fell ? and so shall all such Builders of Babylon , and upholders of her Merchants , even they that help , and they that are holpen , shall speedily fall together . 18. Who were they that preached up the aforesaid Covenant in opposition to the Engagement , To be true and faithfull to the Common-Wealth , as established , without a King or house of Lords ) both in the year 1648. and 1649. & c ? Who sent Letters and books into the English Army ( when going against the Scots ) to discourage and divide them , and thereby to disable that Army and prevent their Proceedings , and all whose charge , pains , and diligence was that correspondency held between the Presbyters in England , and Sco●land , in and about the yea 1650 & 1651 , and who so generally then preach'd up the Scots religion , Church-government , Worship and discipline , here in England , and likewise in Ireland , and all the time the Kirk of Scotland were carrying on their Design with ●harls Stuart , whom they afterwards crowned there , and ( then with all their might ) hasted to bring him into his late Fathers Throne ( by way of Conquest ) with that potent Army of Scots , and others here prepared to assist therein ; and how sad and unquiet were this sort of men ( in all the three Nations ) upon the defeating and routing of the said Army at Worcester ? and who were here the chief Actors therein , that sent intelligence and timely notice of the fittest season and way of that Armies so coming for which some ( of the most notorious ) were called to account , and ( its like ) one or two suffered , but the generality of them remain the same to this day , as they can find out opport●nities in like manner to act for their own ends , whether by such correspondency with any like men in Holland , or else where ? And who caused the Turkish Alcaron to be Printed in English after the Parliament inhibited the so Printing thereof and to what end , and who are the men subject to changes , and alter and change those they call Religions ( in all ages ) when , and as they see it may be most pleasing to Kings , Queens , or Rulers , and profitable to themselves , and augment their Authority over the bodies and Estates of others , and ( upon such changes ) Preach that for the Word of God , and true Gospel , which seems to lead to their preferments , by taking best with such Authority ; and in Authorities greatest weakness , and Distempers to take advantages over and against it , as who is able to make mention of the many factious Sermons in the times of your late troubles preached before authority , for which ( they were so cunning therein ) they rendred thanks , seldom reproofs ; but have they not often thereby hindered businesse of importance , because not suitable to their intentions ? 19 Who were they of the Presbiters Kirk of Scotland that acted and contrived their Intendments so mysteriously during all the time of Englands troubles , bookingin all interests with their like Brethren here , as also in Ireland , Hell and Hagu● , and other parts for the carrying on of their designs ; Their railing accusations and slanders , so oft raised against the English Army while here ; As also , when at Glascoe , or other parts of Scotland , their occasioning the poor people there to hide their goods in the earth , and their bodies also , by perswading them that the English Army of Sectaries would kill them , and take what they had ; the said sort of men exalting themselves against the Civil Authority there in matters of the greatest moment : their raising of Forces , giving Comm●ssions in the name of the Kirk and Kingdome , their inviting young Charls Stuart to them , putting him to take their Covenant upon his own Constructions , and then Crowning him to strengthen their Party and Cause : their disagreements amongst themselves about him and his , and otherwise their seeking assistance from France ; their treacherery against the English Army by their Kirk Army at Dunbar , and other parts , &c. yet could they not have much harmed or troubled you ( what ever they intended ) had not many of their said like Brethren here fomented Differences and assisted them for the more easie accomplishment of their Kirk-Design in a generall way . 20. To passe by the Popish Clergy ( so called ) in Ireland , with the cruel Murthers , and bloody Massacres by their instigations committed in that Land , during that late , horrid Rebellion , Call to mind and remember who they were , that ( about the tenth year of the late King before the said Rebellion brake forth ) assembled in Dublin , Composed an Instrument , and thereby raised a Subsidy , called a free Subsidy of four shillings out of each pound of all their promotions and Spirituall Livings ( so called ) in order to a War , that had such an inordinate desire to bear Rule , and exercise Authority , thereby to maintain and support their new sound Altar-Worships , Bowings and other their then then Inventions , their frequent Disturbances by medling with matters of Civil Government , so by writing , preaching , and otherwise , of what they liked or disliked in Magistrates or others , the severall Inventions and Designings in the time of the said Rebellion , the solemn Oath many took and preached up , and which many of the people there did take in the latter end of the year 1648. to be true and faithfull to him they called their young King Charls the second , how they would fight for him , assist him , &c. Who were they that before and about that time , Preached for , extolled and encouraged , those they called their Excellent and Right Honourable Lords ( Ormond and Inchequin ) to make Leagues and Cessations , and joyn in amity with the said Popish Priests , and Irish Rebels , and that about the same time in 1648. Composed and set forth in Print certain Prayers ( so call'd ) for their said young King , and therein such execrations and expressions against the said Parliament and their Armies , as I find not freedome here to name , then and in these times frequently read in their Congregations ; and yet since how forward and prevalent have some been in preferring their friends and favourites ( severall that assessed them in those their former actings ) into imployments of publick trust , by having divers faithfull servants of the Common-Wealth , put out of such imployments to make room for them , and because of not complying to do such unfit things , as some of that sort of men desired , whereby Justice hath been turned into wormwood and gall , and of such persons ( so brought into Authority ) have they severall times prevailed ( by letters , preaching , and otherwise ) to have men chosen as Members to serve in Parliaments , there also to carry on their Designs . Not to say much how the said sort of men have been enabled to do such things by their large Salaries , or how frequently divers of them have caused the Publick Peace to be broken by the rude people , in and near their Meeting-houses , in beating , stoning , and abusing sober persons that did but tell ( or offer to tell ) them plainly of their Deceits and lying inventions ( in love and for amendment ) that the people might cease from these that so beguile unstable Souls ; the time being come that Christ Jesus will have all spirits to bow and bend to his spirit , which is , if they were acquainted with , they would not onely favourably resent , but lovingly entertain such discoveries and Counsels as tend to their own , and the peoples knowledge of him , of whom many have as yet got but a sound of words , not knowing whereof they affirm . 1. Ob. But divers of the before mentioned men would not have so taught , encouraged , or done the things they did in the Bishops dayes , but that they were then under the Bishops Commands , and liable to their Censures , so that they durst not disobey them , lest they should be silenced and lose their Benefices , whereby themselves , Wives , and Children might have come to want , and they ought to provide for their Families ; he denies the faith , and is worse then an Infidel , which doth not that , and the like may be said in the beginning and time of the Wars , some of them dwelling under the Kings Power , and others where the Parliament had power , and likewise where both Armies came upon occasions ; and further , that their affections led them , some to encourage and assist the one side and the other as they could have opportunities , &c. which I take to be their strongest Reasons ; for I suppose none of them will now say , their Altar-Worships were done for Conscience sake , much lesse will they say , they so laboured to set men to kill one another for Conscience sake , or thereby to exalt themselves into greater Authority and Estates , and therefore briefly answer . An. It was Christs meat and drink to do the will of his Father , ( who came not to destroy mens lives , but to save them ) and his love in all his Ministers constrains them to be obedient to him , and labour even so to walk as he walked , in all things seeking the good of others that they might be saved , but never did , taught , or allowed the doing of such things as these in any Nation , or amongst any people upon any accouunt whatsoever , much lesse for a worldly maintenance , Wives , Children , or like affections to any man or thing ; and they that are such lovers of their own selves , fear outward wants , or so please men , cannot be the servants of Christ , his Ministers were never such , and therefore let no man deceive you so any more with vain words — Besides this , who , or what enforced any such men so to preach or incite men to Wars on the one side , or on the other ? or who occasioned such sidings , making Parties , and causing enmity in each against other ? surely this Parliament did it not , for that it was begun some years before they sate ; besides they were necessitated to make use of all means and helps they had or could conveniently have for their own and your safeties , and preservations , when the then King would not be perswaded to Peace , but raised a War ( by means of many of these men ) in his own Land , with and against his own Subjects ; and yet where , or when did the Parliament so much as imprison any of these men , because they would not preach in their names for Wars , provided they sate quiet , and medled not against them . 2. Ob. But the Priests or Ministers are not to be blamed in such cases , because what they do , is for the good of the peoples Souls , to have them of an uniform Religion , whereby to prevent Sects , Schismes , Heresies , and all sorts of Divisions amongst ●hem , wherein the Magistratate is to take the said mens Advice , and they to assist and help the Magistrate therein , they being so usefull in Government for support of Authority , that all would fall into confusion without them , it being their duties to satisfie mens Consciences , that all Governments are of God , and to direct their minds to Obedience and Subjection to every Ordinance of man in every change of Government , and Governours , and to help therein by inciting to Wars or otherwise , as they shall see occasion . An. Instead of doing good to your Souls or bodies , have they not done the contrary on all occasions , pretending to be Christs Ministers , to Preach the Gospel of Peace , when they stirred up strife , and prepared for War , and in stead of assisting in Government ; been the disquieters of mens minds , disturbers of publick Peace , hinderers of Rulers in the making and due execution of Righteous Laws ; have not this sort of men been the causers of Sects , Schismes , Heresies and Divisions , and the means whereby Governours and Governments have been changed , ( with great hazard , charge and trouble to you ) when not suitable to their dispositions and intentions ? and is not this their compliance with , and pretending to assist Magistrates , and do good to peoples Souls , their great Engine of Deceit , whereby they invent and contrive your Troubles , and carry on their subtil and crafty Designs , under specious pretences , solemn formalities and ceremonies without spirit or life ? Now let the wise in heart judge who in Authority or otherwise have received any good by them or their Counsels ; and whence else should your troubles have had their Rise , the King have so raised his Army , or came by his Fall as he did , and ( others in ) somewhat a different manner ) before and since ? and contrarily , what peace and concord was in the Parliaments faithfull and unanimous Army ( in scorn called New Noddle ) when this sort of men had least to do therein , & most imployed themselves in railings thereat ? Doth the Lord God change ? or do changes in Governours or Governments alter his mind , or the way of his Worship and Service ? or is his fear truly taught by the Precepts of men , or are his Ministers subject to changes , as Governments change ? from Popery to Prelacy , from Prelacy again to Popery , to Protestanisme , Presbytery , Independency , &c. hurrying people ( as it were ) headlong , sometimes one way , and sometimes another , thereby driving all as into confusion , and causing such to become sad sufferers that follow them not therein . Consider whether these will be sufficient Arguments to justifie before the Lord Jesus Christ at his appearing in his glory and pure power to render to every man according to his Deeds ; it is most manifest , that Christs Ministers would have rather suffered , ( and do willingly suffer at this day ) the spoiling of their goods , imprisonments , and bodily death , rather then yield to any such vile affections in themselves or others . Consider also who enforced any of this sort of men , or what necessitated them to become such violent persecutors of consciencious men by the names of Puritans , Precisians , Separatists non-Conformists , Brownists , Anabaptists , Seekers , Quakers , &c. to commence and prosecute such and so many vexatious suits against their Patrons , Parishioners , and others , to hast so earnestly into each others livings , and turning Wives and children forth of doors , to get augmentations unto their former Benefices , to run from a lesse , to a greater Benefice , to seek and take Pluralities , to intrap men by Oaths and Covenants ; to revile and speak evil of persons in Authority , to force mens goods from them without consideration , or such contract made with them , or such mens owning them in their deceitfull practices , to cause such and so many disturbances in the Nations , or to become so Nabal-like , that a man may not speak to them ; what Rules or directions , are to be found in Scriptures ( which they say is their Rule ) for these things , & c ? The restraining of this sort of men , from making disturbances by medling with State matters , or otherwise ; from a forcible taking of mens goods ( that for Conscience sake ) disapprove of their practises , and leaving the said men in equal condition with others , to prove their Doctrines by their deeds , according-to the Scriptures , as also clearly ascertaining your other Rights and Liberties , and securing you therein , might be a safe , speedy , and honourable way of proceeding in the cure of the yet unhealed wounds , Ruptures and distempers of this Common-Wealth . And now to your Omen herein ( about others ) concerned , consider soberly of your respective wayes and workings to accomplish your own ends , what your aims are , and how evilly you have required the Lord God and this people of these Nations for all the good things done for you , your Wives , and Children ; for I deal plainly with you in love to your souls and bodies , and desire to manifest that I have no hatred to any mans person , nor can be free to let sin lie upon your souls , but put you and others in mind of your former miscarriages , and reprove you soberly , as the onely Lord God ( the righteous Judge of all the earth ) hath commanded me , who is now shaking , not the earth onely , but the heavens also , that the things which cannot be shaken , may remain ; wherefore deal plainly , truly and faithfully with him and your souls , be willing at last to hearken to the voice of Christ in his true light in your Consciences ; bring all your deeds to that light , which never did , doth , or can deceive you in any thing , but ( as diligent heed is taken thereto ) will shew you plainly all your deeds ( done in your mortall bodies ) of what sort they have been , and are , with all your most secret thoughts thereupon , and intentions therein , with what you should do , and what you ought not to do ; for that would bring you to true Repentance not to be repented of , teach you to walk honestly , as in the day , to put on the Lord Jesus Christ , and make no provision for the Flesh , to fulfill the lusts thereof , &c. Hearken to that voice of the wel-beloved Son , and wait for his appearance , that he may hearken unto you , and receive you graciously , before the doore of Mercy be shut against you , sorrow , shame , and sadnesse overtake you , and so seise upon you , that you find no place for repentance , though you may seek it diligently with tears ; for there is such a day of black and thick darknesse hasting upon many evil doers that harden their hearts against Christ , and would not he should reign over them , though that of him in all Consciences shews how to come to him , and learn of him who was lowly , and meek , holy , and harmlesse , which is your duties in an especiall manner , lest ( after so many his warnings ) he leaves you to your hardnesse and hearts lusts , and say , why should they be smitten any more ; they are turned to Idols , let them alone ; and then you justifie your selves , and Act yet greater and greater abomination , in fighting against God , stirring up strife amongst the people , and belying the Lords Servants , his truth and true Church , that is , without spot , blemish , wrinckle , or any such thing ; and what will you do in the end thereof ? There hath been a time of ignorance which the Lord God hath seemed to wink at , but now calls upon all men every where to repent and believe in his onely begotten Sonne , whose Gospel never came in word onely , but in plain demonstration of his spirit and of power ; nor doth the faith of Gods Elect stand ( at all ) in the Wisdome of man , but in the pure power of God ; as Abraham believed God , and followed him , not knowing whither he went , so do they that are of the same faith , ( Children of Abraham ) at this day , being led by his spirit , and fitted with wisdome and great Power for his spirituall work in this his notable day , wherein his Angels appear spirits , and his true Ministers a flame of fire in all Lands , thereby reproving the world of sin , righteousness and judgement , gathering the Wheat into his Garner , and burning the chaffe with unquenchable fire ; even his day wherein the armies of heaven follow him , crushing down , and breaking in pieces every high thought , lofty look , and deceitfull thing , that exalteth it self against the Kingdome of Christ , and cannot worship you , nor any Idols that you set up ( be they never so fair or well-favoured ) but ( as Christs sheep ) should greatly rejoice to hear his voice in any of you ; but your strange voice they may not hear , nor can own your Pharisaicall holinesse , your mock-fasts for strife and debate ; your railing accusations , cursing those that came in the name of the Lord , or other abominable practices , which you exercise your selves in ( without any respect or Reverence to truth ) because contrary to what is strained through your muddy brains , wherewith you have so defiled the Nations , that the workers of iniquity have no more knowledge , but to run violently ( at your becks ) upon the Lords people , to devour them as a man would eat bread , to condemn and kill the just that resist not , even the able Ministers of the new Testament , not of the Letter , but of the spirit ( though some otherwise unlearned men ) whereby they approve themselves to every mans Conscience in the sight of God , in Afflictions , Tumults , Stripes , Imprisonments , Labours , &c. Do not your hearts smart within you in thinking on the dolefull and deadly Kne●s you have rung , and caused others to ring over this Common-Wealth , and yet do , ever seeking to put the people upon Acts of violence one against another , thereby taking peace from the earth , under colour of advising some to take heed of being deceived by others ? when that of God in your Consciences will tell you that it is by your Inventions they are deceived , that you do or say therein , being not for very love to God and their souls , but for other ends then his Service ; and how instead of being a sweet savour to God , as also in them that believe , and to them that perish you are become an evil savour , and stinch upon the face of the earth , in so much that it is sore burthened with you ; and can you be so blind , as not to see it , or not to think it high time for you to live quietly , as sober minded men , work with your hands , and eat your own bread , and permit others to do so likewise , or the Magistrate to prevent such Acts of violence , as many of you have , and yet do occasion , that those who have not yielded obedience to the light and Law within , are to be governed by a Law without , and they that observe the Royall Law , and live of the Gospel , freely ( in all places ) to preach the Gospel . Would you have all people to believe , that as you buy Learning , Languages and Arts for money at Schools , that so ( therewith also ) you receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost , and after that ( having laid your hands one upon another , and are placed in Parishes ) what you have , or shall find out , invent and compose , as from books , and so take mony to tell of , or teach others , is the Word of God to them for salvation of their souls ? or would you have it believed that you have any rule for what you do and teach , save onely your own , or other mens meanings and interpretations of the Words and Writings of the Prophets , Christ , and his Disciples , as recorded in the Scriptures , which you make use of as the chief instrument of your Trade or Craft , to get mony by , therewith beguiling unstable Souls , that cannot cease from Sinne ; I pray you consider what else doth it avail you to Read , Hear , Study , Invent , Compose , and contend about words , while you abide in the Enmity against God , and Wrathfulnesse of the Earthly Nature , Will and Wisdome , even of that spirit which led Gain to slay his brother ( Because his own deeds were evil , and his brothers good ) the Jews to crucifie Christ , and stone Stephen , and all the bloody persecutors ( in the Antichristian state ) to torment ? slay , burn and massacre the bodies of all the Martyrs , and that onely for the word of God , the testimony of Jesus ; and those persecutors not being able to resist the wisdome of the Holy Spirit by which they spake , it being the very same spirit in you that hath occasioned some of you to cause such and so many vile things to be done , as would make a mans ears even tingle to hear tell of , which is the cause why you are generally in so great confusion , so ignorant of your duties to God and man , and of the people that are the Worlds Scorn , that bear the vessels and name of the Lord at this day ; and why you conclude your selves and others are to continue in your sins , be of an erroneous and fallible spirit , while in these Bodies of flesh , &c. Must you indeed contiuue in sinne , remain sinners of the Gentiles , or worse , for ( as it is written ) He that commits sinne is of the Devil ; whhile so , what ground , Rule or Reason have you to suppose people should believe you , or hearken to your Talk , or Methodicall Forms of words , more then unto others ? can that be good and pleasing to God that is mixt with sin , and performed by sinners , that take part with the evil one , Gods enemy . Doth any unclean thing come near his dwelling ? or did not Christ Jesus come to destroy the works of the Devil , and bring in an eversasting Rrighteousnesse ? Be not alwayes slow of heart to believe what is written ; these your inventions shall certainly and speedily come to an end ; Babylon shall fall and never rise again ; and therefore come out of her , make hast , tarry not , nor say within your selves , Shall we confesse our ignorance of what we have so long laboured about , preached and contendded for , as the Gospel of Christ , and for which we have received so great yearly Incomes from the people ? Shall we bring so great a shame upon our selves , our Office and Ministry , as to say , we have been so long deceived , and deluded and deceived so many peoples Souls that trusted to us and ou Doctrine ; and thereby occasion every one to sleight , contemn , and despise us . Must we lose all , part with all , or not be Christs Disciples ? Learn to labour , and live like other men ; This is an hard saying , who can bear it ? &c. Now at your perils be it , whether you hear or forbear , you have been plainly dealt with ; and if for all this , you remain obstinate , not willing to become fools for Christs sake , that you may become wise unto him ; not willing to set aside all your ornaments of Learning , Arts , and naturall part , and stand single unto him , that he may know what to do to you for your good , but will indeed have your portions in this present evil world , you shall not onely have leannesse in your Souls , but these things ( wherein you take delight , and which your hearts lust after ) shall be dead comforts , but living torments to you , and your blood be upon your own heads ; when Christ shall say , Depart from me , I knew you not , ye are workers of iniquity : Go to the gods that you have served , and to the men and things that you have trusted in , &c. And now , all you people , I say again , hearken to the voice of Christ in your Consciences , wait , and watch there , that you may come to see how far you have been guilty against God , and occasioners of your own troubles , and sufferings , as evil-doers ; for it is written , that God moved David to number the people , because he had a purpose to destroy them , even so were the able men amongst you numbred before the late Wars ; and when so , God will find out instruments , though such may be imployed by the evil one to their own ruine . These things before mentioned , were not all done in a corner , nor you remembred thereof to disquiet your minds , or to raise displeasure in you against any person , but as afore is said for their admonition , and your satisfaction , and future caution , wherein take diligent heed at all times , and stand clear of these men ; for you may be like to meet with tentations , such as you are not yet aware of ; here is the true cause of your troubles and trialls , for you to make the right use of , and as any of you become diligent observers of your duty , to God , you will discern things rightly , savour the things God , and fee them as they are , and use them as you ought , and then shall no man need to say to such , Depart from the Tents and Ware-houses of such wicked men , or enter not into the Idols Temples , lest you defile the Temple of God ; For if any man defile the Temple of God , him will God destroy . There is now no serving two Masters , no partaking of the Table of the Lord , and the Table of Devils : Stand therefore in the daily Crosse unto that , and in that , which is contrary to mans own will , desires , affections , Reasonings , and words of Wisdome , and so abide faithfull unto him that hath so called , who will also do it , &c. but then look to be made a by-word amongst others , a derision to them that are round about you , and it is also like the Devil may cast some of you into Prison , and tribulation you may have , which ( according to the integrity of your hearts , and cleannesse of your hand● ) shall be to your spirituall advantages , whereby to become wiser then your enemies , as continually refreshed and strengthened in the inner man , by the ever-springing fountain of Life and love that runs through the earth , to accomplish that for which it is sent , which many of you yet see not , because your eyes are shut ; Christ Jesus came to open the blind eyes , and right blessed are their eyes that see , and receive the inheritance amongst them that are sanctified through faith in him , though derided , falsely accused , and set at naught ( as the good way of the Lord , his service and servants have been and are ) cruelly persecuted & said to be troubles ( as Elijah was ) even by many of those men that oft have , and yet do strive to trouble and overtop the whole Common-wealth , as others ( of that sort of men ) before them , though in somewhat a different manner , &c. Have not some such men done more mischief in a few weeks or dayes , then could be amended in much longer time ( besides your sad sufferings thereby ) by causing ( as it were ) the foundations of the earth to be turned out of course , occasioning changes in Governments and Governours ? and is it not evident , that they who can so far prevail , as to have set up again , and pulled down ? ( at their pleasures ) can also throw the same down again ( by like means ) when that serves not their ends , whereof not onely histories , but your own experience , do ( in part ) make manifest and discover ? by whom , and in what way confusions of mens minds and manners , changes of Religion , Laws , and states , as also was , spilling the blood of the Saints , and other miseries to mankind , have come in all ages of Antichrist . Some speaking in your cases , will say that the late Bishops were an inconsiderable number of men , had not many more assisted , and led on others also , as the multitude , to act and carry on their Designs ; And as for the late King , he was but one person , and therefore his evil Councel and assistants were all along chiefly charged rather then he ; and will also say , that you ( the people ) desired peace ( rather then War ) and a quiet living , untill incited , stirred up and provoked to strife , and Intestine Wars , one part against another ; and therefore certainly there be yet some men justly to be esteemed great offenders therein , the guiltiness of whose cause and Consciences cannot be separated , and yet have so ( fox like ) lurked in their dens vnder the shelter of one Authority after another , as that they have escaped the hand of Justice , and not been dealt with , if discovered , although at some times crying out against Authority , and at other times to authority to help them and defend them from but being soberly spoken to : It is not here said , what such men deserved , or do deserve for all these their sundry sorts of services ( when particularly discovered with their respective deeds ) nor what is become of the Magistrates , that hitherto have taken such for their Counsellours , and patronized them . These are things that the righteous Judge of all the earth will yet further call to account , who hath looked down from the habitation of his holiness and glory , and taken his peoples cause into his own hands , and appears therein , with affection to them , ( as being afflicted in all their afflictions ) and indignation against his enemies , who ( if they so continue but a little while shall become like Bell and the Dragon , Empty Idols , ( seem they now never so great in this world ) so that all others sh 〈…〉 see whereof they are made ; for the Lord God of Glory will speedily ●read down Sathan under the feet of his Saints that art dear and precious in his sight , what ever others deem of them . The fourth Mo●●h . 1659. THE END . 
A44840	----	The good old cause briefly demonstrated with advertisements to authority concerning it, to the end, all persons may see the cause of their bondage, and way of deliverance. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A44840 of text R14167 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing H3223A). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 32 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 9 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A44840 Wing H3223A ESTC R14167 12206382 ocm 12206382 56183 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A44840) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 56183) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 764:7) The good old cause briefly demonstrated with advertisements to authority concerning it, to the end, all persons may see the cause of their bondage, and way of deliverance. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. 16 p. Printed for Thomas Simmons ..., [London : 1659] Caption title. Signed at end: R.H. [Richard Hubberthorn. Cf. BM.] Reproduction of original in Huntington Library. eng Church and state -- England. Great Britain -- History -- Commonwealth and Protectorate, 1649-1660. A44840 R14167 (Wing H3223A). civilwar no The good old cause briefly demonstrated. With advertisements to authority concerning it; to the end, all persons may see the cause of their Hubberthorn, Richard 1659 6443 3 0 0 0 0 0 5 B The rate of 5 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the B category of texts with fewer than 10 defects per 10,000 words. 2004-12 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-01 SPi Global Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-05 Simon Charles Sampled and proofread 2005-05 Simon Charles Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion THE Good Old Cause Briefly demonstrated . WITH ADVERTISEMENTS TO AUTHORITY Concerning it ; To the end , All persons may see the Cause of their Bondage , and way of deliverance . A Cause in this Common-Wealth hath been much pleaded and contended about by Words and Weapons . Some have called it Liberty of Conscience ; but the Light in the conscience ( the Light of Christ , the Lords true Witness in the soul ) can no man reach ; for by it ( as obedience is yeilded thereto ) is received the Greater and more Marvelous Light of life , as being of it , and one with it , even Grace for Grace , the ingrafted Word , able to save the soul ; which increaseth with the increasing of God , and so is changed from glory to glory by the Spirit of the Lord , whereby he subdueth all things unto himself ; and therefore ( failing herein ) many men have run violently upon the Bodies and Estates of others , whereby divers persons have suffered Imprisonments and cruel deaths , some banishments , some left their native Countreys and outward Relations , and sought ( where peaceably ) to inhabit and serve the Lord in other Lands , while the generality of the people have been kept in blindness and bondage , ignorance and errors , by following dumb Idols , even as they were led . By others the said Cause hath been , and is called , The Cause of God and Religion , and so hath been much contended for by a material Sword , wherein likewise have been mistakes , some seeming to be for one Religion , Opinion , or thing , and some for another ; the one pure and undefiled Religion remaining still the same that ever it was , but not so contended for by those that are exercised therein ; for that is the Work of God in the Light of Christ in the conscience , in the soul , a spiritual hearing the voice of the beloved Son of God , the true Teacher , the one High-Priest , ( set over the houshold of God ) who leads from such Acts of violence , ( upon that account ) to suffer freely for his Name , and so be made perfect in him , to worship him , walk with him , and be one with him , and obey him in all his Commands , and not yeild to his Enemy in any thing , or do to another that he would not be done unto ; This only can please God : And this Religion and spiritual Worship is not of man , nor taught by man , but by the revelation of Jesus Christ , with the mighty Power of God , and can neither be set up , nor pulled down by any material Sword , or outward force ; for in this , man's Wisdom , Power , Strength , or Righteousness , hath no place , but is so contrary to it , that whensoever any man takes upon him herein to command , order , direct , or defend , he mars all that ever he meddles with , as said the Apostle , Who hath known the mind of the Lord , that he should instruct him ? The Saints have ( indeed ) the mind of Christ , and every one gives account of himself to God the heavenly Father , that hath committed all Judgement to the Son , and all Power in Heaven and Earth , whereby to subdue all his Enemies under his feet ; and when all things are become subject unto him , then shall the Son also be subject to him that did put all things under him , that God may be all in all . This Cause hath of late been stiled , The Good old Cause , ( it is like ) for that it hath met with outward interruptions ; the revival of which ( in an especial manner ) concerns you ( much entrusted therewith , and interested therein ) in the Parliament and Army , because that by your Orders and Actings much blood hath been spilt , and treasure spent about it , which ( as you hearken to , and keep in the light of Christ , single-hearted , calm , quiet , flexible and pliable , to do the will of God ) will be seen and felt with what that calls to you for . Consider , That the Sword Civil and Military ( in your hands unexpectedly at such a time as this ) is not to be born in vain , much less to be turned against the innocent ; neither ought you to fall out about it , but to use it soberly in the fear of the Lord , for the punishment of evil-doers , and praise of them that do well , ( not to justifie the wicked , nor condemn the just ) to take off the heavy burthens , to quiet mens spirits , and thereby prevent their inclinations to seek outward help any other way ; for so is the Will of God , whose Justice you are to see ( or cause ) duly executed , ( that the Earth continue not always filled with violence , fraud and unquietness ) whose Will you seem to desire and pray , may be done in Earth as it is in Heaven ; If therein you be in earnest , you will manifest it in Actions of true love to him , with all your hearts , souls , minds and strengths , and to us ( your Neighbours ) as to your selves , that you may be blessed in your deed ; for you may see that God will not be alwayes mocked with Words , give to him all your Honors , Wisdoms , Power and Strength , that he may become your Fear , Dread and Counsellor , and renew you therein day by day , ( on all occasions ) as the redeemed of the Lord , the repairers of the breaches of many generations ; a people sought out , and not forsaken , such as he may delight to honor in his service . In the next place give me leave to say , That the occasion of the Kingdoms ( or Nations ) quarrel with the late King and his Party , ( when they took up Arms against us ) was ( in a defensive way ) for our Rights and Liberties ( also called the Priviledges of Parliaments , and Liberties of the Subjects ) then so exprest , and so understood ( which the King alwayes opposed by his Negative Voice ) in order whereunto the Militia was desired ( or demanded ) from him ( thereby to have prevented the shedding of Blood , with the Charges and Consequences of War ) and We ( the People ) invited to enlist and maintain each other in Arms ; upon which Account , and for which Cause We freely brought in our Moneys , Plate , Horses , Arms , and other Habilliments of War ; and many choice spirited-men as freely adventured their lives , with all that was ( outwardly ) near and dear to them , ( Liberty of Conscience ( so called ) and Religion seeming therein included ; ) and you ( now again brought together ) are of them that first ( eminently ) appeared for that Cause , laid the foundation of it , and brought us into the way of a Common-Wealth in order to it , and have seen much of the Lords Presence and Power owning it in the hearts and hands of his servants , so that ( though it hath been outwardly obstructed ) men have not prevailed against it , ( by fraud nor force ) but split themselves upon that Rock . Wherefore take you diligent heed to that light which would lead you into , and keep you , and guide you in the way of the Lords clearness , that you may follow him fully ( as you have said ) to lay the Top-stone upon that foundation , and the people then cry , Grace , Grace to it , and never more repent of their charge , or loss for it , when they shall truly and indeed be setled , and surely defended in their Rights and Liberties , in Persons and Estates , so as that the Lamb and the Lyon may lye down together , and none make each other afraid ; that all persons in all places may quietly and freely do their duties to God , and each to other in true love , sincerity and soberness , as he by his Spirit shall respectively direct and command , to his praise , and the Spiritual and Temporal benefit and comfort one of another . Said God to Pharoah ( by Moses ) Let my people go , that they may serve me ; and if thou wilt not let them go , I will shew my Power and wonders upon thee ; I will pour out my plagues upon thee and thy people . Was not this typical ? And hath not this ( of late ) been the case in these Nations ? Consider it . It hath been sufficiently known and felt , that such men have of late gotten into Authority , that would not hear tell of our Rights and Liberties ( what-ever smooth words they gave us ) but made Laws to punish us for soberly using them ; and yet ( even then ) some would seem to say , Why have you not your Liberties , your Civil and spiritual Concernments setled and continued unto you ? May not you be as good , as religious as you will ? Are you not well ? When alas we felt the Distempers pinch us in all our parts and members ; Bonds and Imprisonments attending us every where , spoiling of our goods , and what not , And none that pittyed us could relieve us , nor tell us how long . Be not you so led aside by the deceitfulness of Satan's Wiles , and devices of evil men . In love , and for loves sake I beseech you be watchful , be faithful , be diligent in the discharge of your respective duties to God and man , and while you have time , p●ise it ; ( the night cometh in which no man can work ) improve all opportunities to the right end , least that which is lame and halteth be turned out of the Way , and then you spend your times in disputing , contradicting and opposing each other , until the simplicity be betrayed by the inventions and subtil craftiness of such as lye in wait to deceive , that have mens persons in admiration for advantage ; the strange Woman that flattereth with her lip● speaking lyes through hypocrisie , to betray both you and us of our Rights and Liberties , which to you would be very sad , and your fall more remarkable then others before y●● But as for those that fear the Lord , and wait at all times upon him , they are sure of deliverance , and therefore do their duties quietly , casting all care upon him that careth for them . If any deceiver shall come ( with his new inventions ) and tell you , that though you are not to meddle with other mens consciences , yet you must be sure to satisfie your own consciences by taking care of the peoples souls , setling and establishing Religion and Church-Government as your chiefest business , your greatest Work , and first to be done ; thereby to prevent and suppress Heresies , Sects , Schisms , and Factions in the Church , and that the defferring of it so long , hath been the cause of such and so many errors and divisions amongst the people ; And thus run on as fast as his tongue can belye his heart ; ( for did not Sects , Schisms , Errors and Heresies begin with such false Teachers ? yea , and with them shall they end . ) Then do you seriously consider , That the vain mind of man is forward and hasty to set out it self to work for God ( as Cain and King Saul offered sacrifice in their own Wills ) but without God , and therefore against him ; man being ignorant of God's righteousness , and going about to establish his own righteousness , submits not to the righteousness of God , but turns the truth of God into a lye , worshipping and serving the creature , and forsaking the Creator , who is God over all , blessed for ever , and rich unto all that call upon him The Lord led his Israel of old by a Cloud , and by a Pillar of fire , and so they moved or stood still as they were led . And afterwards he gave them Laws , Statutes , and Ordinances whereby to worship him . The Lord God never yet said to any people , Go make your selves a Church-Worship , Discipline , or Government , or settle for your selves a Way whereby to worship me . The poor impotent people also waited at the pool of Bethesda for the moving of the Water : And Christ Jesus ( his peoples Lord and Law-giver , faithful in all his house as a Son ) promised and hath sent his holy Spirit the Comforter , to lead into all truth , to take of his , and give unto us ; to this one Law-giver ( able to save and to destroy ) are his servants onely obedient , and he their pattern in all patience and long-suffering , even with joyfulness . Also consider , That the conscience and soul of man is a place for the living God to dwel and walk in , where no Magistrate ( as such ) hath any business . The souls of men is a Charge too great , too high , too weighty for you to undertake or meddlewith , and ( like the former Builders of Babel ) wil be confounded in it , if you so touch it ; The wickedness of the wicked therein shall come to an end ; and the Lord wil establish the just . Do you onely settle us in our external Rights and Liberties , establish them to us , and defend us therein from fraud and violence of such as yet know not what spirits they are of , but are disobedient , ignorant of the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ , that makes free from that of sin and death ; secure us in this particular , and restrain all persons from abusing themselves and the creatures in riotous living , by Authority , in the hands of such men as hate covetousness and vain glory , that know this spiritual Law , Fear God , and eschew evil . This is your Business and our Right , both by Birth , and dear Purchase ; suffer it not to be with-held from us by stopping your ears at the cryes of the oppressed . Hearken unto us , that God may hearken unto you when you shall most need his help ; and trust the Lord Jesus Christ with his own work in our souls and consciences ; for they that dare take the charge of other mens souls upon them , neither know their own souls , nor yet their duties to God or man ; it 's out of your Sphere , beyond your reach , a work which neither God nor man hath committed to your Trusts ; not found in all your Records ( of the most Antichristian Idolatrous Ages ) onely you have several Constitutions and corrupted forms concerning Church-Governments , Worship and Discipline , which , ( in the long and dark night of Apostacy ) have been ushered in by Popish Prelates and Priests , and so craftily twisted and interwoven together with , rooted in , and depending upon the Civil Authority , and the Civil Authority in , with , and upon them , that many wise men think it a kind of Sacriledge , or rather madness to sever them each from other , and that the doing thereof may break both , and drive all into confusion ; and be sure that sort of men ( most concerned therein ) will not fail to tell you so , and withall tell you , that you are to maintain a Gospel-Ministry ; that otherwise the people will become heathens ; that they are the men to be so maintained ; that you must defend them from being reproved in the presence of their hearers , whatsoever they say there ; and much more of that kind , if you hearken to them , and have but such a faith ( as stands in their Wisdom ) to believe them , while it is evident to the children of light , and other unbyassed men , That hereby was the rise , and this the root and foundation of all Antichristian Tyranny ; and that when man by his Wisdom and Authority meddles , ( in like manner ) he onely builds Babel higher and higher , until it fall about his ears as ( hath been seen ; ) The depths of Satans pollicies , and deceits herein , are such as few men are yet aware of , but run on , and are punished ; onely the children of light see him in his transformings and likenesses , though adorn'd with never so curious a dress . The Church of Christ never had , desired , nor wanted such helps from man to support her . It 's the Mother of Harlots and abominations , the Strumpet , the strange Woman , Jezebel , that deceives the people with her fornications , the worldly Teachers , State-Ministers , Antichrists Ministers , that want such Authority for a worldly maintenance ; they that receive or seek for such maintenance , ( by tythes or otherwise ) are the Hirelings , the deceivers , and none of Christs Ministers ; for Christ eever provided for his Ministers ( daylie bread ) wherewIth they were contented , and freely went and preached the everlasting Gospel , without help by mans Authority , or taking careful thought what to eat or drink , or wherewith to be clothed ; And thus he imploys many of his servants in this day of his Almighty Power , that his great Work is so upon the Wheel , that man is not able to stop it , though he should fight never so fiercely against it : He is inseperably in , and with his Tremblers , by his everlasting Covenant , and they with him ( in spirit and truth ) worship the Father , and live the 1ife of the Almighty , and are an heavenly Host with him ; his righteousness is before them , and the Glory of the Lord their Rereward ; they cannot be idle as others that sport themselves in the day-time , nor silent , but speak the things they have heard and seen with their Father ; and though they be persecuted , afflicted , and tormented as sheep for the slaughter , ( by the wilfulness of some , and ignorance of others ) yet is their love increased towards all men , as knowing that he is worthy for whom they suffer such things , who nevertheless wil avenge his own Elect that cry day and night unto him ; Tribulation to them that so trouble his servants , and to them rest and peace with him , which is their life . What sober-minded man will say we ( the people ) have our Rights and Liberties , ( which many of us have far adventured for ) while the aforesaid Antichristian yoke of bondage is upon our necks ? We have not our Liberties in our Persons or Estates , nor are we in any better condition then slaves , bond-men , and bond-women ; our bodies , and what else , we hold , and labour for at the wills of other men . Divers of our Bodies haled to prisons , and there kept for a year , or years , more or less , as others please . A great part of the increase of our Lands , Stock , and Labours ( Arbitrarily ) forced from us time after time , and no Law to protect us from such violence ; have not divers of us been ( outwardly and frequently ) vexed and disquieted by long and tedious suits in Law , our Goods and Cattel violently taken from us out of the Houses we live in , and from the Plough , to the wasting of many mens Estates , hinderance of Tillage and Trades , poverty and want , of Wives and Children not for any thing we owe to any man , but onely concerning the Worship of our God , ( whom we serve in our Spirits , in the Gospel of his Son ) and ( for conscience-sake towards him ) dare not assist and maintain the Antichristian Tyranny over us , or others . So likewise when any of the servants of Christ go forth ( in obedience to him ) to declare against sin and wickedness , Are they not beaten , stoned , stocked , imprisoned , cruelly whipt , and shamefully abused ? And have not some been stifled in Cribs , nasty Dungeons , and dirty Holes of the Earth , friends not permitted to come into some prisons to relieve or comfort them . Not to say much of the prevalency of the aforesaid sort of men , what Acts and Ordinances they have obtained to support themselves over us by Tythes , or otherwise ; how they do , or may take Peace from us , and alter mens conditions when , and as they please ; of their preaching up and down what they like or dislike in Magistrates , Parliaments , Army and People ; Their prevalency in removing faithful Officers ( Civil and Military ) out of their Places of Trust , & bringing into those Places such persons as they know will serve their interests against our Liberties , whereby Justice hath been turned backward : Or how ( upon the same account ) many persons are unduly elected to serve in Parliaments : Or of their striving now to hook in all interests against the Peoples Rights and Liberties : I say not but it may concern them so to do , now the Head of their Church ( with his Negative Voice ) and their Fathers the Bishops are fallen before them ; even so shall Babylon fall and never rise again ; Lamentations and Woes will be to such as pitty her . Nor shall I say much touching our Rights and Liberties in other particulars , as how many men have been ( as it were ) torn from their Fathers and Mothers , Wives , and Children , ( their own flesh ) to serve in forreign Wars , at the Wills of others , ( and yet liable so to be ) without true knowledge of the occasion thereof , their consciences satisfied therein , or their Wives and Children provided for , but rather left to beg or starve in the streets . How divers faithful Members of the Army have been put out of their Imployments , because ( for conscience-sake ) they could not go with their Arms to stand by , approve of , and justifie the Parish-Teachers in their way ; and others put out as illegally at the Wills of other men ; How uncertain and delatory proceedings at Law are : The peoples ignorance of the Laws under which they live , because of the multiplicity thereof , and contradictions therein . Of some Statutes , part repeal'd , and others , part continued ; some before repealed , again revived , or part revived ; some limited to time , some otherwise . Laws in force to take away mens lives for Theft , wherein no person hath been put in fear or danger of death . Courts so divers and different in their manner of proceeding and tryals . Exactions and oppressive Tolls and by-Laws in Corporations , & peculiar Jurisdictions , ingrossing of Trades and trading therein ; Corporations not permitting such as have served the Common-Wealth in their Wars , to exercise their Trades freely there . Persons of other Nations ingrossing or taking up Trades , wherein many of the poorer sort have usually been imployed , and comfortably maintained their Wives and Children , slavish Tenures of Land held at the will of the Lord , ( so called ) Oaths , or Swearing , contrary to the Command of Christ ; and several other things , ( too many here to mention ) contrary to our Rights and Liberties , though nothing so grievous as those which more especially concerns our Liberties and Freedoms in the Worship of our God , and obedience to him at all times , and in all places . Now if there be some persons that are so in love with slavery as to desire to continue in the said bondage , and account it their liberty so to remain as natural to them , because so kept from their youths up , and their Fathers before them ; be pleased to permit such to have that their Liberty ( under Antichrist ) until they shall be willing to be otherwise free ; but let it be by their own Act and Deed , ( otherwise that would be to them bondage ) let such hire and maintain their own Ministers out of their own purses , ( as they please or can agree ) provided always that they ( to be hired ) be such as are not profess'd Enemies to the publike peace , and that they meddle not at all with matters of Civil Government , thereby to make others unquiet ; then may you permit every man freely to enjoy the fruits of his own Land , Stock , and daily labours , without trouble concerning that tedious and vexatious Tax , called Tythes , ( so great a scruple in many mens consciences ) and thereupon finde the generality of us ( the People ) freely willing to part with moneys for redeeming Impropriations , payment of Souldiers Arrears , and other publike Debts ; and then most freely may you charge money on us for the payment thereof , upon so just and valuable considerations . It is like there are some other persons that are weary of this Bondage , and would be released , but dare not yet say so , because they see not the way , wanting faith in those things which speedily are to be accomplished . And it 's also like here be many wise men ( after the flesh ) that will not easily be perswaded that this is the way to Peace and our Liberties . Now to such I say , Remember what you read that Christ said , Whatsoever you would that men should do unto you , so do you unto them , &c. Be you willing to put this into practice , that it may appear you would learn of Christ ; for it is not he that saith Lord , Lord , but he that doth the will of the heavenly Father . Is there any thing more equal and just then that all men should hire & pay their own Ministers ( alias servants ? ) Would you not have that liberty , and be so done unto ? And were this way speedily put in practice , ( though but for a time ) you would see this work so great a change in mens minds and manners , as divers will not yet believe though it be told them , or never so plainly demonstrated to them , but rather take offence because of some self-interests ; and herein I beseech you to take diligent heed , lest any of you should be exalted in your selves , and think this a kind of arrogancy in me , or disparagement to your Wisdoms , or that you have not need of Monitors in these times when so great things have been done and suffered upon this very account of Liberty , and when the Lord Jesus Christ ( with thousands of his Saints ) rides on gloriously , conquering , and to conquer , treading down all Rule , and all Authority ( contrary to him ) under his feet , that which many wise men and Kings have desired to see , and yet have not seen it ; which the Martyrs in the Marian dayes , ( under the bloody Prelates and Priests ) lifted up their hearts and hands to God for , with strong cryes ( as we have cause to believe ) frying in the fire ; and many others in some of your dayes have freely also parted with their mortal lives for , dyed in faith , but enjoyed not these promises , God ( in mercy ) having provided better things for us in these times ; Times I say , wherein the worst of men are made manifest , wherein the blade springs up , and the Tares appear ; Times wherein the Lord gives people for his people , even Nations for their lives , that Christ Jesus may rule and reign in righteousness , and bring forth his people with joy , his chosen with gladness . There hath been times when some of you ( at least ) have sought him , and would have owned him in any appearance ; refuse him not now in his embraces and tenders of love in those that have embraced him , though he doth appear in a despised people ; ( where none of the wise men of this world looked for him ) to whom he is become a Son and a Shield , their Righteousness , Strength , and exceeding great Reward ; — Let it appear if your delight be in the Saints that are on the earth , in such as excel in vertue . In the Apostles dayes , and some years since , it is evident that the one , onely true , pure , and undefiled Religion , was a plain thing , ( though a great mysterie of godliness ) and well understood and known ( by the professors thereof ) to come down from the Father of lights , with whom is no variableness nor shadow of changing , who of his own will begets sons and daughters with the Word of Truth , &c. which is his work in the conscience , in the soul , wherein the Saints obeyed him with diligence & delight . But since men have invented forms of words in their own wills , they have departed from the light , and lost the substance and power of godliness , and become strangers to the life of God , through the ignorance in them , because of the blindness of their minds , the great things of his law seeming to them a strange thing ; The true light of Christ in the conscience , in the soul , that whereby ( being ascended up on high ) he draws all men unto him , is despised and evil spoken of by such as satisfie themselves with reports , and a sound of words without life ; As for instance , let every man consider seriously in that called Baptism , It hath been oft said and repeated , That therein you make a solemn Vow , Promise , and Profession , That you will forsake the Devil and all his works , the vain pomps and glory of the world , with all covetous desires of the same , and the carnal desires of the flesh , that you will not follow nor be led by them ; and that you will not be ashamed to confess the Faith of Christ crucified ; But manfully fight under his Banner against Sin , the World , and the Devil , and so continue Christs faithful Souldiers and Servants , to your lives end , dying unto sin , and living unto righteousness , daily mortifying all evil and corrupt affections , following the example of Christ , to be made like unto him , &c. and yet how most live in their lusts , pride , filth , and all manner of abominations , ( like the fool that said in his heart , There is no God ) using the true words of Christ , That unless a man be born again , he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God ; praying also , That God would grant that which by nature you cannot have , &c. When will you deal truly with God and your own souls , that your own and your Teachers hypocrisie may be ( by you ) clearly seen , and the great , Athiests of this age made manifest , that can , or dare so to handle holy things without feeling ? And lastly , take this for a Maxim , that wheresoever any earthly King , Prince , Monarch , Potentate , Power or Authority ( be he , or they never so wise , learned , or religious ) shall establish any Religion , ( so called ) Worship , or Discipline , or be extolled , stiled , deemed , esteemed , or taken to be Head of the Church , Defender of the Faith ; or shall take upon him , or them , to give Commands or Directions concerning the Worship and Service of God , ( according to his , or their best Wit , Skil and Cunning ) that is an Usurpation upon the Prerogative and Authority of Christ Jesus , the Head of his Body the Church , King of Saints , and the one Law-giver , able to save and to destroy ; and such Religion and Faith ( thereby acquired ) stands in the Wisdom and Authority of man , and not in the power of God , being Antichristian , deceitful , and vain , whereby the people become vicious and wickedly hypocritical , and that Religion and Church-Government ( with the Commands , Doctrines , and Opinions so established ) serve for Political ends , silenceth the Voice of Christ in peoples souls and consciences , and causeth them to become formal , frequent and unruly talkers of God , Christ , and the Saints conditions ; ( as they have read , or heard say ) contenders about words and questions , boasting themselves in things they never saw , &c. and is dangerous to civil Society and Government , the occasion of so great strife , contention , and bloodshed in all Nations and Ages of Antichrist , and no certain assurance of peace or safety can be there either to Magistrate or people ; but confusion of minds , and each in continual fear of other ; This hath caused so great distances between men , so much wicked State-policy on the one hand , and Treachery against men in Authority on the other hand , Distractions and heart-burning one against another , as also such deceit , that men ( for outward peace sake are even necessitated to teach their tongues to flatter , lye , and dissemble each with other ; and it opens a door unto any person that gets into Authority ( by means of the Teachers of such a Religion ) to put the people into discontents against others , and exalt himself to rule alone by his own will in a tyrannical way over them , or to set the people ( one party against another ) to shed each others blood by Wars about such Religion or Religions , when that may serve to usher in some like design , upon which account of design ( for the most part ) is the impressing of men for forreign Wars . What else makes the persons called Papists , dangerous in a Common-Wealth , and to dwell among ? Is it not their established Religion , Church-Government , and Discipline , whereby they esteem , extol , and ( by all means ) uphold the Pope as Head of their Church , Defender of their Faith , & c ? and slight , scorn , contemn , hate , and seek to take away the lives of others ( differing from them therein ) as Hereticks ? and have not the Prelates and Priests practices here , been of the same , or like kind , and Presbyters also out of the same root , of a muzled , formal , and Antichristians Religion , made , supported , and maintained by man , and mans Authority , differing from Popery in some Opinions , Observations , and external performances . R. H. The third Month 1655. THE END . LONDON , Printed for Thomas Simmons , at the Bull and Mouth near Aldersgate , 1659. 
A44842	----	The real cause of the nations bondage and slavery here demonstrated and the way of their freedome from their sore and hard bondage asserted presented unto the Parliament ... / from one that hath seen the corruption ... Richard Hubberthorn. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A44842 of text R34471 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing H3228). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 18 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 5 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A44842 Wing H3228 ESTC R34471 14449481 ocm 14449481 102368 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A44842) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 102368) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1061:2) The real cause of the nations bondage and slavery here demonstrated and the way of their freedome from their sore and hard bondage asserted presented unto the Parliament ... / from one that hath seen the corruption ... Richard Hubberthorn. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. 8 p. Printed for Thomas Simmons ..., London : 1659. Imperfect: pages stained. Reproduction of original in the Huntington Library. eng Society of Friends -- Apologetic works. Great Britain -- Politics and government -- 1642-1660. A44842 R34471 (Wing H3228). civilwar no The real cause, of the nations bondage and slavery, here demonstrated, and the vvay of their freedome, from their sore and hard bondage asse Hubberthorn, Richard 1659 3559 15 0 0 0 0 0 42 D The rate of 42 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the D category of texts with between 35 and 100 defects per 10,000 words. 2004-12 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2004-12 Aptara Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-01 Judith Siefring Sampled and proofread 2005-01 Judith Siefring Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion THE REAL CAUSE OF THE NATIONS Bondage and Slavery , here Demonstrated , And the VVay of their Freedome , from their sore and hard bondage Asserted . Presented unto the PARLIAMENT Of the Common-wealth of England , Who have a Power and Opportunity put into their hands to do good ( and to fulfil the expected ends of many ) if they improve it . From one that hath seen the Corruption which bondageth the whole Creation , and that waits for the Redemption of the Creature from under it , RICHARD HUBBERTHORN . I will restore thy Judges as at the first , and thy Councellors as at the beginning , afterwards thou shalt be called the City of Righteousness , the faithful City , Isai. 1. 26. ( Not before . ) When this is fulfilled in England , it shall be truly called a free Nation , or Common-wealth , ( Not before ) LONDON , Printed for Thomas Simmons , at the Bull and Mouth near Aldersgate , 1659. THere hath been a time when the prudent hath kept silence , but now Wisdom hath opened her mouth , and will be justified of all her Children , for the Lord is reviving the Spirit that hath been imprisoned , and taking the yoak from off the disciples necks , and is going on in the Name of his power , to make his creature a free creature , & his people a free people , and the Nation that serves him , & obeys his Law , a free Nation ; and the thundrings of his power is gone forth , and his Light is risen to discover and destroy that which hath deceived the Nations , and to give a discerning unto all , of their freedom from their bondage , and in what it stands ; and that is to be cast out which gendreth to the bondage of Soul , Spirit or Conscience , in any exercise of worship , or obedience unto God , which springs from the measure of his own life , which must not be hindered , nor quenched by any Law , Power or Pretence whatsoever . Therefore from the free Spirit of Life and Liberty in Christ Jesus , this is Proclaimed to the whole Nation , and the Nations round about , to take off their bondage , and to take away their reproach , which hath lain upon them for want of the Life of Christ , which is now risen to do its own work , and perfect its own praise , and to deliver its own seed wheresoever it hath been in Captivity , the power of life must deliver it , from all that which causeth shame and reproach , which is the iniquity and transgression of the life of Christ , which is the Original Cause of bondage to every Nation , which the Lord hath promised to take away in one day , Zac. 3. 9. And his work and power shall be known by its fruit , Which is to take away their sin , Esa. 27. 9. One great yoak of bondage which is upon the subjects and seed of God in this Nation , and others , is , that ministery , which is not free , neither will Minister without money , and the people is not free to hear them , yet a yoak of bondage is laid upon them , to pay them ; and this iniquity is established by a Law ; so here is neither free preaching , nor free hearing , unto which the free Spirit raised up in this Nation , declareth thus ; That every one that will Minister , must do it freely , and as of the Ability which God giveth him , and as the Oracle of God , and that no profession of people may maintain anothers Minister ; but that there may be a free Preaching , and a free Hearing among all People , that so it may be a free Nation , and they that will have Teachers according to their own lusts and judgements , they to maintain them ; and that there may never any such iniquity be established by a Law , as for one sort of people to maintain anothers Minister , for this hath caused heart-burnings , envy and strife , insomuch that little Justice could be done for the Nation , by reason of the cry of complainers and oppressors , as at every Parliament , every high Court , every Assizes , and Sessions , and petty Courts , there hath some ( pretended Minister or other been presenting Addresses , Petitions or Complaints , and so hath stopt the Just and Lawful proceedings of the affairs of the Nation ; which interruption may easily be prevented , and the Courts of Justice freed from such brawling and unceaseable complaints , which hath been more interruption to Justice , then any thing in the Nation besides , and hath more hindered the peoples deliverance from being a free people , and a free Nation , then any thing in the Nation besides ; so let every form and profession of Religion maintain their own Minister , and maintain their own Poor , which are crying at their Meeting-house doors , and in the streets , in the Name of their God , for some relief , that so there may not be a beggar in England ; for herein the Christians in name , are become even a reproach among the Heathens , to see their own flesh stand naked and uncovered in the streets , and Steeple-house doors , and at their doors , and they turn their ears from the Poor , and forgets God , and looses the bowels of Compassion , and are not merciful , as the Father which is in Heaven is merciful ; and so walks not according to the Scriptures , but is a disgrace to Religion , and even a reproach among the Heathen ; so let no more the cry of the Priests , nor of the poor be heard in our land ; the one crying for Laws , to persecute and receive money of those , who they preach not unto , which receives no teaching from them ; which cry is intollerable , to be heard or suffered in a free Common-wealth ; And the other for want of the creatures of God , when as others spend the creatures of God upon their lusts excessively , and so the Creation is out of order ; but those that are come into the Gospel Ministration , and to be taught of the Lord , and have received Christ Jesus the Lord , and walk in him ; it is not so amongst us , for the creatures of God are not spent upon the lust , nor destroyed ; neither is there a beggar amongst us , who are truly of us , in the obedience of truth ; so that we do not desire that any people or profession in the Nation should maintain our poor , for they are our own flesh , without respect of persons ; for if any of us have of this Worlds good , & see our Brother stand in need , & shuts up the bowels of compassion from him , the love of God doth not dwell in us ; neither doth any other maintain those that Minister unto us the Word and Doctrine ; so we according to the royal Law of Liberty , desire to do unto others , as we would have them do unto us ; and thus to be a free people and a free Nation . So every form & profession will enjoy their own Minister , till they come to know Him , unto whom the gatherings of the people must be , viz. Christ ; so that neither Parliament , Assizes , Sessions nor Courts will have any thing to do in matters of Religion , but to keep the peace of the Nation ; And then he that hath the Word of God , may speak his Word faithfully and freely , without interruption ; so that the Gospel of God may have its free course , and be glorified . And that great oppression of Tithes ( which lyes heavy upon the whole Nation ) which God raised up his Spirit in the Army once to testifie against , may be taken away , that what was then pretended may be now fulfilled , and the people eased of their oppressions which they have long felt the burthen of , and groaned under , that so ( as a free people ) they may be delivered from that bondage , and the Law may be disannulled by which that bondage is imposed upon them . So this will beget love in the nation , and all persecution , cruelty and bitterness will cease , and every one may freely and quietly enjoy the fruit of his own labour ; then with much freedom and chearfulness , will every one Minister of his substance unto all necessary uses , knowing that the earth and the fulness of it is the Lords ; and when this universal love and free Spirit is begotten among people , then will Righteousness establish the Nation ; and that will be brought forth , which many sincere hearts and tender Consciences hath waited for , several years ; and many have been even almost weary and faint , in their minds , in waiting for that , which they once had a lively sight of , and hopes to enjoy , in the Lords Promise of Liberty and Freedom opened in their understandings ten years since , insomuch that some have been ready to tempt God , and say , that he was slack concerning his Promise ; and some , for want of long patience , hath left off expecting that which they once believed and hoped for ; but God is reviving the hopes of the contrite ones , and in them that had said , there was no hope in them , is he renewing strength , to believe that God will give Judges as at the first , and Councellors as at the beginning ; the Judges at the first , were not to Judge for gifts , nor for rewards ; nor the Priests was not to preach for hire , nor the Prophets were not to Divine for money , but the Judges did Minister Justice freely between man and man ; and the Priests did Minister the Law freely , which was added upon all transgression ; so in those dayes here were no Priests that troubled the Courts , Judges , nor Councellors , with Addresses , Petitions , or Complaints for maintenance ; no suing at the Law , no Imprisoning mens persons for wages , nor no spoiling of mens goods , and there was not such delayes in executeing judgement upon transgressors as is now , for the Judges sat in the gate , and executed judgement speedily upon the offender , & cleansed the land of evil doers , and so every one was to wait on his Ministry , which he had received from the Lord , and are to do so now , if they do it unto the Lord ; he that judgeth for God , is not to respect any mans person in judgement , and he that hath the word of the Kingdom is to Minister it freely , and then the people will Minister their carnal things , freely , to every one that hath need ; so that , whereas even from the Priest to the people , al hath been given to covetousness , strife & debate ; every one now will be given to love and freenesse one to another ; for he that hath spiritual things , will Minister them freely , and he that hath carnal things , will Minister them freely , and so will all come from under the execution of the Law , and from all strife and contention . Another great oppression , wherein iniquity is upheld by a Law , is in the Ministration of the Law between man and man , it not being done frely , so not , as in the begining . HE that doth Minister the Law , let him do it freely for the Lord , and for righteousnesse sake ; and let him be as one of the Judges in the beginning , and as one of the councellors , whose eyes were not blinded with gifts and rewards ; and so it will come to be a free nation , and then every man will not seek his own , but every one anothers good , & then will pure love spring up to one another , & one will seek to preserve and save another , and not devour & destroy one another about earthly things as now they do ; so Christs spirit will be found among all sorts of people , Ministers of the Law , Ministers of the Gospel , and subjects of the nation , which were to save mens lives , not to destroy them ; and then the Scriptures which cannot be broken will be fulfilled , and peace will be extended as a river , and righteousnesse as a mighty stream . For it is this spirit which I have mentioned , in Lawyer & Priests ( which did ) not Minister freely , but for covetous ends hath made merchandize of peoples souls and estates , that hath broken the peace of this Nation , as many hath had a deep experience , even when the Army was in its first purity and zeal for God and his truth , that spirit did creep into their councels and corrupted them , and did creep into Parliaments , and corrupted them , and when there was any appearance of a Monarchy , or government , arising in that Nation , that spirit crept into every high Court , and corrupted it , so that whole Nations are corrupted with that spirit , so that till that spirit be purged out , there is not like to be a free Nation , or a free people , for it was that spirit which brought Israel into bondage , which was once a free Nation , and not in bondage to any man , while the Judges judged freely , and the Priest preached freely , and the Prophets prophesied freely without mony , or without price ; then was Israel a free Nation , and a free people , and the glory of all Nations ; but when the Judges judged for giftes and rewards , and the Priests preached for hire , and the Prophets divined for money ; then they became as corrupt as the Nations of the Gentiles round about them , and then they came into bondage and captivity , and then profainnesse went forth from the Priests into all the earth , as it doth from those in England which are in the same state ; now see that sin and covetousnesse is a reproach to any people , as Salomon saith , Prov. 14. 23. and it is that which brings them into bondage from being a free people ; now if none may Minister the Law , but those that do it freely , as unto the Lord , and as his Ministers , then that covetous , self-seeking spirit will be purged out in Judges , Councellors , Lawyers , Attorneys , and Solicitors , which would devour the creation , to spend upon their own lusts , that seeks for great places , to inrich themselves and destroy others , so that equity , Law and Justice is lost , and the free Ministration of it in this Nation ; so that in many cases , a man had better suffer himself to be defrauded , then to seek to the Law for Justice , the administration of it is become so corrupt , and the law is so perverted by them , that a man is not suffered to plead his own cause , but is forced to hire a Lawyer , or an Attorney ; and men are not suffered to bear a true and faithful witnesse , nor to have the truth and justnesse of their cause confirmed by the mouth of two or three witnesses , without swearing , and so people is still kept in bondage by deceit and oppression from having the liberty of their pure consciences ; and so neither Law , Judges , nor Councellors are now as at the beginning , nor such as ought to be in a free Common-wealth . Now whereas in your late proceedings , it is ordered and granted , that every one shall have their free liberty ; first as an English man ; secondly , as a Christian , which liberty hitherto we have not enjoyed ; for as English men , we have not had our just liberty in the Nation ; first , as concerning the Law ; secondly , as concerning the Worship of God ; for in this our own nation , and in our own Counties , where we have been well known ( and also just and true , and of good report , and no evil justly laid to our charge ) have we been shamefully abused , whipped , stoned , prisoned , and both our bodies and goods spoiled , accounted as vagrants , and not permitted , as English men , to have the liberty of the Law , because we , as Christians , could not transgresse the commandment of Christ , which saith swear not at all ; so that if we may have our liberty as English men , then not to be persecuted in our own countrey as vagrants , where we are known to be no such persons ; and from hence let a true t●●●●mony , in yea or nay , be taken in our law without an oath , 〈◊〉 he that can take liberty to swear , and so to break Christs c●●mand , will take liberty to lye also . And secondly , if we 〈◊〉 injoy our liberty as Christians ; then we are not to be force● 〈◊〉 a law to maintain the Anti-christian ministers , nor to be fo●… to swear contrary to Christs command ; and also that act , 〈◊〉 Law , is to be abolished , which is to persecute any for trave●… on the first day of the week , yea , when many of that day 〈◊〉 but travelled to the worship of God , hath been imprisoned , some their horses taken from them , & never yet had them ag●… and this is contrary to the Christians liberty , for the Chr●●●●ans , and the disciples of Christ , in the primative time , tra●…led upon that day , and Christ himself travelled upon that 〈◊〉 as you may read in Luke 24. 15. where two of the Disciples ●…veled from Jerusalem to a village called Emaus , ( and 〈◊〉 being risen from the dead travelled with them ) which was 〈◊〉 Jerusalem about 60 furlongs , and that same day they trave●… back again from Emaus to Jerusalem , verse 33. which in 〈◊〉 is about 15 miles , and if they had travelled other 15 miles 〈◊〉 it was but the Christians liberty , and no law to the contr●●● so let that be repealed , which binds and limits us from 〈◊〉 the Christians liberty , and from walking as they walked . And let not any magistrate be incouraged by you to ●…ny cruelty or persecution , from his will , upon any for the ●…ercise of their consciences in the fear of God , in obedie●… to his will ; for the day of your tryal is come , and the 〈◊〉 which will make all things manifest , and every work of 〈◊〉 sort it is . An opportunity hath been put into the hands of many , to 〈◊〉 for God who had no heart to improve it , but hath impro●… their own interest for their own ambition , and God hath 〈◊〉 them as a reproach , and a by-word among the people , 〈◊〉 have sought their own , and not anothers good , and have bused the power put into their hands ; therefore you that 〈◊〉 not yet lost your day , nor time , redeem it , least the Lord 〈◊〉 you by also , as not fit to do his work , as he hath done 〈◊〉 THE END . 
A44846	----	Something that lately passed in discourse between the King and R.H. published to prevent the mistakes and errors in a copy lately printed contrary to the knowledge or intention of the party concerned ... therefore it was thought convenient for the removing of errors and mistakes to be reprinted in a more true form and order for the satisfaction of others [by] R. H. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A44846 of text R29444 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing H3235). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 12 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 5 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A44846 Wing H3235 ESTC R29444 11146790 ocm 11146790 46388 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A44846) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 46388) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1425:7) Something that lately passed in discourse between the King and R.H. published to prevent the mistakes and errors in a copy lately printed contrary to the knowledge or intention of the party concerned ... therefore it was thought convenient for the removing of errors and mistakes to be reprinted in a more true form and order for the satisfaction of others [by] R. H. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. Charles II, King of England, 1630-1685. 6 p. Printed by A.W. for G.C., London : 1660. Reproduction of original in the Union Theological Seminary Library, New York. eng Society of Friends -- Doctrines. A44846 R29444 (Wing H3235). civilwar no Something that lately passed in discourse between the King and R.H. Published to prevent the mistakes and errors in a copy lately printed, c Hubberthorn, Richard 1660 2117 31 0 0 0 0 0 146 F The rate of 146 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the F category of texts with 100 or more defects per 10,000 words. 2004-12 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-02 SPi Global Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-03 Mona Logarbo Sampled and proofread 2005-03 Mona Logarbo Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion Something that lately passed in DISCOURSE Between the KING And R. H. PUBLISHED TO PREVENT THE mistakes and Errors in a Copy lately printed , contrary to the knowledge or intention of the party concerned : and not only so , but also misprinted and abused in several particulars , therefore it was thought convenient for the removing of Errors and mistakes to be reprinted in a more true form and order for the satisfaction of others . R. H. LONDON , Printed by A. W. for G. C. and are to be sold at his Shop at the Black Spread . Eagle at the West-end of Pauls , 1660. Something that lately passed in DISCOURSE Between the KING And R. H. &c. R. H. SINce the Lord hath called us and gathered us ●o be a people , to walk in his fear , and in his truth , we have alwaies suffered and been persecuted by the Powers that have ruled , and been made a prey of , for departing from iniquity ; and when the breach of no just Law could be charged against us , then they made laws of purpose to ensnare us , and so our sufferings wert unjustly continued . King . It is true , those that have ruled over you , have been cruel , and have professed much which they have not done . R H. And likewise the same sufferings do now abound in more cruelty against us in many parts of this Nation , as for instance , one at Thetford in Norfolk , where Henry 〈◊〉 ( ministring unto the people ) was taken out of the meeting and whipped , and sent out of the Town from Paris● to Parish towards Lancashire , and the chief gro●nd of his Accusation in his Pass ( which was shewen to the King ) was because he denyed to take the Oath of Allegiance and Supremacy , and so because that for conscience sake we cannot swear , but have learned obedience to the Doctrine of Christ , which saith , swear not at all ; hereby an occasion is taken against us to persecute us : and it is well known that we have not sworn for any , nor against any , but have kept to the truth , and and our yea hath been yea , and our nay , nay , in all things which is more than the Oath of those that are out of the truth . King . But why can you not swear , for an Oath is a common thing amongst men to any engagement ? R. H. Yes , it is manifest , and we have seen it by experience ; and it is so common amongst men to swear and engage either for or against things , that there is no regard taken to them , nor fear of an Oath , that therefore which we speak of in the truth of our hearts , is more than what they swear . King . But can you not promise as before the Lord ( which is the substance of the Oath ) R. H. Yes , what we do affirm , we can promise before the Lord , and take him to our witness in it , but our so promising hath not been accepted , but the ceremony of an Oath they have stood for , without which all other things were accounted of no effect . King . But how may we know from your words , that you will perform ? R. H. By proving of us ; for they that swear are not known to be faithfull but by proving of them ; and so we b● those that have tryed us , are found to be truer in our promises than ●thers by their Oathes , and to those that do yet p●ove u● , we shall appear the same . King . Pray what is your Principle ? R. H. O●● Principle is this , That Jesus Christ is the true light which enlightneth every one that cometh into the wo●ld ▪ that all men through him might believe ; and that th●y were to obey and follow this light , as they have received it , whereby they ma● be led unto God , and unto righ●●o●sn●sse . and the knowl●dge of the truth , that they may be saved . King . This do all Christians confess to be truth , and he is not a Christian that will deny it . R. H. But many have denyed it , both in words & w●itings , and opposed us in it ▪ and above an h●ndred Books are put forth in opposition unto this Principle . That some of the Lords standing by the King , said , that none would deny that every one is enlightned . Lord . And one of the Lords asked , How long we had been called Quakers , or did we own that name ? R. H. That name was given to us in scorn and detision about twelve years since , but there was some that lived in this truth before we had that name given unto us . King . How long is it since you owned this judgement and way ? R.H. It is near twelve yeares since I owned this truth according to the manifestation of it . King . Do you own the Sacrament ? R.H. As for the word S●crame●t , I do not read of it in the Scripture ; but a● for the body and blood of Christ I own ; and that th●re is no remission without blood . King . Well that is it ; but do you n●t beleeve that every one is ●ommanded to rec●ive it ? R. H. This we do beleive , ●hat according as it is writen in the Scripture , that Christ at his last Supper took bread and brake it , and g●ve to his Disciples ; and also took the Cup and blessed it , and said unto them , and as often as ye do this ( that is , as often as they brake bread ) you shew forth the Lo●ds death till he come ; and this we believe they did , and they eat their bread in singlenesse of Heart from house to house : and Christ did come again un●o them according to his promise , after which they said , we being many are one bread , for we are all partakers of this own bread . Kings Friend . Then one of the Kings friends said , It is true : for as m●ny grains make one bread , so they being many members were one body . Another of them said , If they be the bread , then they must be broken . R. H. There is difference between that bread which he brake at his last Supper , wherein they were to shew forth , as in a sign , his death untill he came : and this , whereof they speak , they being many , are one Bread for herein they were come more into the substance , and to speak more mysticall , as they knew it in the Spirit . Kings Friends . Then they said , It is truth , and he had spoken ? nothing but truth . King . How know you that you are inspired by the Lord ? R.H. According as we read in the Scriptures , That the inspiration of the Almighty giveth understanding , so by its inspiration is an understanding given us of the things of God . Lord . Then one of the Lords said , How do you know that you are led by the true Spirit ? R. . H. This we know , because the Spirit of truth it rep●oves the world of Sin , and by it we were reproved of sin , and also are led from sin unto righteousness and obedience of truth , by which effects we know it is the true Spirit , for the Spirit of the wicked one doth not lead unto such things . King and Lords . Then the King and his Lords said , It was truth . King . Well , of this you may be assured , That you shall none of you suffer for your Opinions or Religion , so long as you live peaceably , and you have the word of a King for it , and I have also given forth a Declaration to the same purpose , that none shall wrong you nor abuse you . King . How do you own Magistrates or Magistracy ? R.H. Thus we do own Magistrates , whosoever is set up by God , whether King as Supream , or any set in authority by him , who are for the punishment of evil doers , and the praise of them that do well ; such we shall submit unto , and assist in righteous and civill things both by body and estate : and if any Magistrates do that which is unrighteous , we must declare against it , onely submit under it by a patient suffering , and not rebell against any by insurrections , plots and contrivances . King Then the King said , that is enough . Lord . Then on of the Lords a●ked , why do you meet together , seeing every one of you have the Church in your selves ? R. H. According as it is written in the Scriptures the Church is in God , Thes. 1.1 . And they that feared the Lord , did meet often together in the fear of the Lord , and to us it is profitable , and herein we are edified and strengthned in the life of truth . King . How did you first come to beleive the Scriptures were truth ? R. H. I have believed the Scriptures from a child to be a declaration of truth , when I had but a literal knowledge , naturall education and tradition : But now I know the Scriptures to be true , by the manifestation and operation of the Spirit of God fulfilling them in me . King . In what manner do you meet , and what is the order in your meetings ? R· H. We do meet in the same order as the people of God did , waiting upon him : and if any have a word of exhortation from the Lord , he may speak it , or if any have a word of reproof or admonition , and as every one hath received the gift , so they may minister one unto another , and may be edified one by another , whereby a growth in●o the knowledge of the truth is administred to one another . One of the Lords . Then you know not so much as you may know , but there is a growth then to be admitted of . R.H. Yes we do grow dayly into the knowledge of the truth in our exercise and obedience to it . King . Are any of your friends gone to Rome ? R. H. Yes , there is one in Prison in Rome . King . Why did you send him thither ? R. H. We did not send him thither , but he found something upon his Spirit from the Lord , whereby he was called to go to declare against Superstition and Idolatry , which is contrary to the will of God . Kings Friend said , There were two of them at Rome , but one was dead . King . Have any of your friends been with the great Turk ? R.H. Some of our friends have been in that Country . Other things were spoken concerning the liberty of the servants of the Lord , which were called of him into his service ; that to them there was no limitation to parishes or places , but as the Lord did guide them in his work and service by his spirit . So the King promised that we should not any wayes suffer for our opinion or Religion , and so in love passed away FINIS . 
A44847	----	Supplementum sublatum Iohn Tombes, his Supplement, or Second book about swearing disproved and made void and his abusing the Scripture plainly manifested : against which the truth of Christ's words is vindicated and maintained / in a few words briefly returned to him from Richard Hubberthorne and Samuel Fisher. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. 1661 Approx. 16 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 5 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2005-10 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A44847 Wing H3236 ESTC R28706 10745477 ocm 10745477 45615 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A44847) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 45615) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1405:6) Supplementum sublatum Iohn Tombes, his Supplement, or Second book about swearing disproved and made void and his abusing the Scripture plainly manifested : against which the truth of Christ's words is vindicated and maintained / in a few words briefly returned to him from Richard Hubberthorne and Samuel Fisher. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. Fisher, Samuel, 1605-1665. Tombes, John, 1603?-1676. Supplement to the serious consideration of the oath of the Kings supremacy. 6 p. Printed for Robert Wilson, London : 1661. Reproduction of original in the Harvard University Library. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. EEBO-TCP is a partnership between the Universities of Michigan and Oxford and the publisher ProQuest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by ProQuest via their Early English Books Online (EEBO) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). The general aim of EEBO-TCP is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic English-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in EEBO. EEBO-TCP aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the Text Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). The EEBO-TCP project was divided into two phases. The 25,363 texts created during Phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 January 2015. Anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. Users should be aware of the process of creating the TCP texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. Text selection was based on the New Cambridge Bibliography of English Literature (NCBEL). If an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in NCBEL, then their works are eligible for inclusion. Selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. In general, first editions of a works in English were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably Latin and Welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. Image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. Quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in Oxford and Michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet QA standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. After proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. Any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. Understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of TCP data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. Users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a TCP editor. The texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the TEI in Libraries guidelines. Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Society of Friends -- Doctrines. Oaths. Loyalty oaths. 2003-06 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2003-06 Aptara Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-03 Melanie Sanders Sampled and proofread 2005-03 Melanie Sanders Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion Supplementum Sublatum : Iohn Tombes HIS SUPPLEMENT Or , Second Book About Swearing , Disproved , and made Void ; and his abusing the Scripture plainly manifested . Against which the Truth of Christ's words is vindicated and maintained . In a few words briefly returned to him From Richard Hubberthorne , And Samuel Fisher. LONDON , Printed for Robert Wilson , at the Signe of the Black Spread-Eagle and Wind-mill in Martins le Grand , 1661. Supplementum Sublatum , John Tombes his Supplement , or second Book about Swearing disproved . JOhn Tombes , thy first part of speech in proof of the Lawfulness of Swearing , being ( it seems ) such an Adjective as could not well stand by it self against such as have answered it , without the supply of some other words to be joyned with it , thou hast added another part of speech , ( for even this also is but a part of what thou sayst thou yet intendest to make upon that subject ) as a little Supplement ( so thou cal'st it ) to supply the defects of the former , which thou confessest did want framing , method , and matter . But when thou again reviewest this thy last Supplement , it will need little more condemnation than the words of thy own mouth . Therefore we shall say a little to thee , lest thou be wise in thy own conceit , if thou be unanswered altogether ; and yet but a little , lest we should seem to be like thy self , in multiplying words without method and matter . The substance of thy book being answered already in a book called One Antidote more against Swearing , we shall speak to some passages in it relating to our selves . As first , Thou sayst page 5. that the using of these speeches , God knows , or I affirm before God , or God is our witness , or This we say in the presence of him that shall judge the quick and the dead ; as an appeal to God's contestation , is plain swearing ; and that Sam. Fisher swears in his book entituled The Rusticks Alarm to the Rabbies , p. 48. 61. in saying , God knows , I affirm here before God and all men ; and so while we speak against all swearing , we practise some swearing . Reply , It is made plain in that book entituled One Antidote more against swearing , that these are no oaths , and here again , that if they were oaths , it being very frequent with Paul ( as Hen. Den saith ) to use them , then that Apostle ( whom ye justifie therein ) uncalled to it , by or before a Magistrate , ( which is the only swearing now disputed for ) did swear as frequently , commonly , ordinarily in his communications with the Saints & Churches , ( among whom his credit was so good , that his word might at any time be taken without an oath ) and consequently as unnecessarily as other men , which do use frequent , ordinary , and unnecessary swearing , which both J. Tombes , Hen. Den , and Jer. Ives do unanimously diallow ; and so ye are guilty of egregious partiality , condemning in some the things which ye allow in others . Mor●over , if those be Oaths , how is it that the Judges and Jus●ces in Sessions will not own them as so , and set free those prisoners when they offer to say G●d knows , God is witness , &c. that we intend no other but good , peaceableness , faithfulness and truth to the King , and all men , & c ? Surely the Magistrates in England do not believe the Priests doctrine , for if they did , they would practise it ; so that we may conclude , That they do but beat the Ayr , and spend their strength for nought , when both Magistrates and people will neither believe nor practise that for truth , which their Priests deliver for doctrine . And whereas J. Tombes saith in p. 5. That those Baptists of Maidstone have offered an Engagement taken before some Justice of the Peace in a solemn manner , with calling God to witness to the truth of what they say , and that they do offer to swear , and take an oath . Reply . Herein he hath condemned the Judges at Maidstone , either to be ignorant of an Oath , or else to proceed in unjust judgement against them ; seeing the Judges required nothing of them but an Oath , and they offered an Oath , and yet they would not receive it ; so that instead of condemning the prisoners because they cannot swear , he hath condemned the Judges , for not knowing , or at least not owning an Oath when it was offered them : and so contrary unto right Rule and Justice , keeping them still in prison for not swearing , who offered willingly to swear ( as he saith ) so that it appears that the Judges do no more agree with J. Tombes's judgement that that was an Oath , then the Quakers do ; But what strange Doctrine ( or rather confusion ) is this in J. Tombes , to accuse the Quakers because they will not swear , and yet say that they do swear fully and plainly ? And yet the Judges , Mayors , and Magistrates will not take it : So that by J. Tombes's book , and the rest that have been written for swearing , the Quakers are found guiltless , and the Magistrates only are to be blamed and reproved , because they will not accept of an Oath , when it is offered to be given by those of whom they require it . But again secondly , If to say , God knows , or God is witness , as an appeal to Gods contestation , be swearing by God , then to say such a man knows , or such a man is witness to the truth of what I say , ●s an appeal to that man's contestation , is a swearing by that man ; which ( Absit absurdum hoc nigro carbone no tandum ) if these Baptists J. T. H. D. Jer. Ives , or any others shall say it is , We shall say they are not yet so wise as they will be , when they once come with the Quakers to own the truth , which they now deny . Again , Jo. Tombes saith , That Christ is no where called the Oath of God. Reply . In the same sence , and place , in which he is called the Covenant of God , as Isa. 55. 5. he is called the Oath of God ; for God's Covenant is his Oath , which he swore Luke 1. 72 , 73. Again , J. T. saith , That there is no instance given by Sam. Fisher of any place where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used in a more moderate sence then to bind by Oath . Reply ▪ What needed one to be given by S. F. when thou gavest one thy self ? viz. 1 Thess. 5. 27. which is translated ( truly enough ) I charge you by the Lord ; which is no more but I will , require , or command you , in God's sight , presence , or such like ; which thou falsly saist is a charging or requiring one to swear by the Lord. Or secondly , What need any more instance be given then thou hast given thy self , who confessest it over again in thy Supplement , p. 8 , 9. more plainly then in thy former ? confessing to thy further confutation , that these three places , viz 1 Thess. 5. 27. 1 Tim. 6. 13. 2 Tim. 4. 1. are alike charges , and that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 used 1 Tim. 6. 13. is only to command , or enjoyn , and doth not include an oath , or swearing ; and that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 used 2 Tim. 4. 1. signifies no more then I witness before God ; so that as it was told thee before , it is most evident , that Paul at that distance wherein he was from them when he wrote to the Thessalonians and Timothy , either did not charge them to take an Oath , or if he did , they did not take it , nor swear to him ; unless we shall suppose they swore to some other that stood present as Paul's proxy , by word of mouth to exact it of them ; which absurdity is more fit to be exploded then supposed . Again , Thou sayst p. 10. That S. F. shews no instance where in with an Accusative case is a particle of affirming without swearing , and till he doth , it necessarily is a particle of swearing . Reply . No , not necessarily ; for whether with or without an accusative case , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 soundeth out no more then some strong asseveration of a thing , as with verily , truly , indeed , or such like ; and differs little more from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Greek ( with is yea in English ) then the English yea , and yea verily do differ from each other ; witness the Latine adverb nae , with ae dipthong , derived ( as is to be seen in the Latine Dictionaries ) of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the Greek , with eta or long e , which is englished no otherwise then by truly , verily , in very deed , or such like ; and the very Accidence it self makes it a particle of affirming only , and not of swearing . And however J. Tombes saith , that Grammarians make the Greek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a particle of swearing , yet the Lexicographers make it as well a particle of affirming only , without swearing , as in that place 1 Cor. 15. it being evident enough , that Paul in that place did not swear , when he saith , I protest by your rejoycing , &c. for to swear by any thing but God , is by all judged to be unlawful . But I. Tombes replies thus ; That Paul sware by God even in those expressions an Oath ( saith he ) of Oppignoration , Pawning , or Execration , wishing therein the forfeiture of his own rejoycing in Christ Jesus , if it were not so as he said ; as when we say On my salvation it is so , &c. Reply . If this had been an Oath of Oppignoration ( as thou vainly cal'st it ) or pawning of his own part or share in Christ's joy , then he would have mentioned his own rejoycing in Christ Jesus only , and not that of the Corinthians also ; for what reason soever he had to with the forfeiture , or to pawn his own , yet he had neither right nor reason to wish the forfeiture of theirs , or to pawn the Corinthians part in the joy of Christ Jesus upon it , that it was so as he spake unto them ; no more then any of us have to wish evil to another man , or to pawn other mens salvation , or to wish another man damned , in case it be not true that we speak ; which is a thing altogether ungodly , unlawful , and unreasonable unto those that have the spirit of judgement and understanding . And so J. Tombes his pleading for swearing from such places , is only to be judged a fruit of ignorance of Christ's Doctrine , or rather enmity against it . But J. Tombessaith , that swearing is a moral commandment , and therefore lawful . Reply . If swearing be a commandment , and a duty to be continued , as the rest of the commandments are . Then it is to be performed as a duty and command continually , without any respect to the Magistrate's imposing or requiring of it ; for we are to love God with our whole heart , &c. without being required by the Magistrate , which is the first Commandment ; and we are to love our neighbour as our selves , being the second , in which all the other is included ; none of which respect are a command from man for the obedience of them . But again , I. Tombes falls from the command , and saith , his greatest argument and inducement to swear , is , because the denying of it hath caused , and is like to cause great persecution to those that hold the truth about Baptisme , and that they will be counted persons ▪ intolerable ; and also he saith , that by his preaching swearing lawful , he hath saved hundreds , yea thousands ( having brought them and their families by it to enjoy their liberty ) from ruine . Reply . So that it appears it is to save people from persecution , and spoiling of their goods , and to keep their outward liberty , that I. Tombes hath preached up swearing , and so it seems they have the reward of their obedience to his Doctrine already ; and upon this account , he , nor those that follow him , need never suffer persecution , if they will but alwayes deny the commands of Christ , as any outward power comes upon them to threaten them with suffering ; so that in the day of his tryal , we have no ground otherwise to believe , but that he will deny and break any of Christ's commands , ( and teach men so ) rather then suffer persecution , seeing he hath thus begun with this command of Christ , Swear not at all , which he would make of none effect by his tradition . Now seeing the Scripture saith , He that breaketh the least commandment , and teach men so , he shall be least ( or not at all ) in the Kingdom of God ; therefore all such are to be denyed , who make a trade of preaching , and when their Doctrines come to be tryed , they are found to be but the Ministers of sin , and to live by the sins of the people ; so that all people may consider and take notice , whether this be a sufficient ground or plea , either for preaching up , or believing swearing to be lawful , because thereby they may be freed from persecution ; which is the greatest hypocrisie that can be either preached or practised by those that profess to be religious . But the day is come which to some hath made , and to others is making all things manifest , and is declaring every man's work of what sort it is , that the deceivers folly may be made manifest unto all men , that from them the people may be brought into the doctrine and way of salvation , which is now freely held forth and published by the power , and in the demonstration of the Spirit of God , as they have freely received it ; not for filthy lucre , but of a ready minde ; for the earth hath been cumbred , and the land filled with such who have made a Trade of the Saints words , preaching them for filthy lucre sake , not freely , nor of a ready minde , but time-servers , having mens persons in admiration because of advantage , and for a piece of bread such men will transgress ; as it is evidently manifest . And whereas Jo. Tombes writes himself B. D. yet he is read among such as are truly wise , by the name of Blinde Divine , rather than Batchelor of Divinity ; who hath spent so much of his time in such vain Treatises , tending to nothing but to bring people out of the obedience to Christ's Doctrine , who saith , Swear not at all ; and having also confuted himself in his own words , there needs the less be said by others to make him manifest ; so for the further evidencing of the truth of those things unto people , and for ending of the Controversie between the Owners of Christ's Doctrine , and the Opposers of it ; we shall commend our selves , and our Testimony unto every man's Conscience in the sight of God ; that his witness may justifie the Truth , and clear it unto all men . THE END . 
A44848	----	Truth cleared, and the deceit made manifest or, An answer to a printed paper wherein are certaine untruths and false aspersions, cast upon a people, called Quakers, by some members of the church of Wrexham in Wales. With some questions answered: with other false accusations cast upon us, by one whose name is subscribed in print, Mr. Vavasor Powel, who is one of the chief priests of Wales, being in the generation of the scribes and pharisees. Let him that reads understand and he shall see it so. And likewise an answer to other slanders and false reports upon the same people, whom reproachfully they call Quakers, but we rather chuse to suffer reproaches, slanders, and false reports with the people of God, then to deny the power of God made manifest in us. By his servant who seeks the freedoms of Israels children, after the spirit, whom the world calls. Rich. Hubberthorn. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A44848 of text R215980 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing H3241). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 31 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 11 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A44848 Wing H3241 ESTC R215980 99827735 99827735 32158 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A44848) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 32158) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1851:9) Truth cleared, and the deceit made manifest or, An answer to a printed paper wherein are certaine untruths and false aspersions, cast upon a people, called Quakers, by some members of the church of Wrexham in Wales. With some questions answered: with other false accusations cast upon us, by one whose name is subscribed in print, Mr. Vavasor Powel, who is one of the chief priests of Wales, being in the generation of the scribes and pharisees. Let him that reads understand and he shall see it so. And likewise an answer to other slanders and false reports upon the same people, whom reproachfully they call Quakers, but we rather chuse to suffer reproaches, slanders, and false reports with the people of God, then to deny the power of God made manifest in us. By his servant who seeks the freedoms of Israels children, after the spirit, whom the world calls. Rich. Hubberthorn. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. Lawson, John, of Lancaster. [2], 17, [1] p. [s.n.], London : printed in the year 1654. A reply to an untraced work by Vavasor Powell. Includes on p. 12, with caption title: An answer to certaine lyes and false aspersions cast upon the truth, and the servants of Jesus Christ, .. by .. William Spencer. This is signed at end: John Lawson. Reproduction of the original in the British Library. eng Powell, Vavasor, 1617-1670 -- Early works to 1800. Spencer, William, -- of Wrexham. Society of Friends -- Apologetic works -- Early works to 1800. A44848 R215980 (Wing H3241). civilwar no Truth cleared, and the deceit made manifest or, An answer to a printed paper, wherein are certaine untruths and false aspersions, cast upon Hubberthorn, Richard 1654 6001 25 0 0 0 0 0 42 D The rate of 42 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the D category of texts with between 35 and 100 defects per 10,000 words. 2004-12 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2004-12 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-01 Andrew Kuster Sampled and proofread 2005-01 Andrew Kuster Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion TRUTH CLEARED AND THE DECEIT MADE MANIFEST OR , An Answer to a Printed Paper , wherein are certaine Untruths and false Aspersions , cast upon a People , called QUAKERS , by some Members of the Church of WREXHAM in WALES ▪ With some QUESTIONS answered : with other False Accusations cast upon us , by one whose name is subscribed in Print , Mr. VAVASOR POWEL , who is one of the chief Priests in WALES , being in the Generation of the Scribes and Pharisees . Let him that reads understand and be shall see it so . And likewise an ANSWER to other slanders and false Reports upon the same people , whom reproachfully they call Quakers , but we rather chuse to suffer reproaches , slanders , and false reports with the people of God , then to deny the power of God made manifest in us . By his Servant who seeks the Freedome of Israels children , after the spirit , whom the world calls . RICH. HUBBERTHORN . ALSO , An Answer to the false aspersions cast upon the truth by William Spencer a Member of the abovesaid Church of WREXHAM . By John Lawson a Prisoner in bonds at West-Chester , for the Testimony of the truth . LONDON , Printed in the year . 1654. TRUTH CLEARED , And the DECEIT made manifest . HAving received a Narration in print , in a Book called Several proceedings of the Parliament , which is full of lies and slanders , upon a people , whom the world calls Quakers , but that name we own , else we should deny the holy men of God , as Moses , David , Job , Hab Daniel , Paul , and the rest ; and lest any weak minds should stumble at the truth , and believe lies , here they are answered . 1 You say , those Quakers would rent and divide the blessed Church of Wrexham . Rep. Silence , flesh , what a Church is that which can be rent ? And what blessing is to you ? Here you have divided it from the Church of God , which is the ground and pillar of truth , that is blessed , but yours is cursed , which is full of lyes , as hereafter I shall make it appear from your own words . 1 You say their main designe and practises appear to the opposing of all Ministers , and publick Ministry . Rep. I charge you to be liars , who gave forth this paper , as to say we oppose all Ministers , and publick Ministery ; for the Ministers that are made by the will of God , we owne : and here I charge you to be lyars , who publish forth these lyes in this paper , and set your hands to it . 2 You say by breaking and dividing of Congregations in censuring of all Saints . Rep. The Saints of the most high God wee censure not : the Congregation of Saints we owne , and doe not divide , there you are lyars : but the Congregation of the world , wee doe deny , and they must be broken , and the Saints of God wee owne , but hypocrites wee doe deny , for Saints cannot own hypopocrits , nor hypocrits owne Saints , but here you shew your selves both to be lyars and hypocrits : In the presence of God I speak it , which you shall eternally witnes , for to that in every one of your consciences I speak . 3 The totall overthrowing of the works of faith and holinesse in Saints . Rep. Here I speak , and charge you in the presence of God to be in the generation of slanderers : for the work of faith , we owne , and holinesse we owne in Saints . 1 Thes. 3. 13. Rom. 6 19 , 22. Heb. 12. 14. 4 The bringing them again into bondage . Rep. The Saints freedome we stand for , which is the keeping out of your minds , and the bringing out of bondage into freedom with Christ ; and saints you know not , nor mount Sinai , and you shew your selves to be fallen from grace , walking despightfully against the Spirit of truth , turning the grace of God into wantonnesse : which grace hath appeared to all men , which grace teacheth us to deny all ungodliness and worldly lusts , and such lyars as you are . 5 And as touching universal redemption . Rep. He that is the Saviour of the one is the condemner of the other . 6. And as touching free-will . Rep. Of his free-wil hath he begotten us , and the light that he hath enlightned every one that cometh into the world hath he enlightned us withal ; and the measure hath he given to every one according to their ability , the crosse is to the will of man . If you can read me you may , which are without on the left hand in your owne wills , who knowes nothing of universal Redemption , ( as you call it ) but are the generation that stands in your owne wills , out of the will of God , in the falne estate from grace ; if ye were redeemed , and stood in the will of God , and dwelt in the grace of God , you durst not utter forth your lyes . 7 You say , These men hold that every one hath a pure seed in him . Rep. I say , Christ hath enlightned every one that cometh into the world , he that hates the light , is enlightned , one he loves it , and the other he hates it , and it lets him see his deeds are evil , which shall be his condemnation : here you have cleared your selves to be in the Generation of the Pharisees , who say , and doth not own this light which hath enlightned every one that cometh into the world . 8. You say , They boast of a gift of discerning . Rep. Here you have cleared your selves from the spirit of discerning , that the Scripture speaks of , and hath shewed forth your nakedness and folly , for to some was given a spirit of discerning , which now is witnessed with some , but not with you . Again , they who call themselves of the blessed Church of Wrexham in Wales , have cast more lyes and slanders upon the Truth , and upon the servants of the Lord , by the name of one whose name is subscribed in print , Mr. Vavasor Powel , but Christ commanded his to call no man Master , and be not called Masters ; but the Scribes and Pharisees love to be called of men Master ; and here thou hast made thy self plainly manifest to be in the Generation , who hath published thy name in print , Mr. Vavasor Powel : and herein is his lyes and false aspersions answered . 1 You say Mr. Vavasor Powel preaching at Church , the chiefe Quaker with his hat on , stood up , and said , thou speakest of a power thou hast not in thee . Rep. Here thou hast added thy owne inventions and lies , for those words were not spoken as thou speakest them , for the said Powel was declaring to the people that those who are sent to preach the Gospel , they preached it in the power of the spirit ; and this was that which he was asked , with what power he preached the Gospel , or what power of the Gospel that people could witnesse from his preaching unto them ? Powel answered , some are convinced and some converted . Then I was moved of the Lord to speak to the people , and ask them , which of them could witness they were convinced or converted by his preaching unto them , and who had forsaken their sins ; but none there could witness any such thing , but pleaded for sin , and that they could not be free from sin , and it was plainly made manifest in the Congregation to all those whose understandings was enlightened , that thou wast one who ministred for Satan , and pleaded for sin , to keep people in their sins , and one of them whom the Apostle speaks of , who keeps them ever learning , and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth ; and whereas thou accusest me for standing up before the Priest with my hat on . Rep. Here thou makest thy folly manifest , and that thou would have something to accuse ; for where doest thou read in the Scripture , that ever those who were sent of the Lord to cry against the hireling Priests , and those who were called of men Master , as thou art , who stand praying in the Synagogues , have the cheifest place in the assemblies and greetings in the markets , that ever they were accused for speaking against their deceits with their hat on : thou readest that Paul as his manner was ▪ went into the Synagogue of the Jewes three Sabbath dayes , and reasoned with them out of the Scriptures , but thou dost not read that he put off his hat , nor that he was accused for keeping it on . He appeared before Agrippa and Festus to answer the accusations laid against him , but thou dost not read that they commanded him to put off his hat , nor did accuse him for it , as the Magistrates and Priests of England do . Again , thou bringst scripture to plead for sin , that thou maist live in thy wickednesse , and keep the people in their sins ; and thou saidst Paul said , he was not perfect . Phil. 3. 12. and Solomon in the 7. Eccles. 20. and Jam. 3. 2. and 1 Joh. 1. 8. Rep. Thou enemy of Christ , and of all righteousnesse ; All those who gave forth these scriptures , doe declare against such as thou art , and thou knowst nothing of their conditions ; Paul knew Jesus Christ , and the power of his resurrection , and fellowship of his suffering , and was made conformable to his death : and he preached wisdom among those that were perfect , even the hidden wisedome of God , which is a mystery to thee thou man of sin ; and he said , let as many as are perfect be thus minded , and said his preaching was to present every man perfect in Christ Jesus , that they might be perfect and intire , wanting nothing , but thy spirit is contrary to Pauls , for thou preachest to maintain sin , and to keep people in their sins . Again , thou saidst , thy way O man cannot be right , for thou censurest all the godly Preachers and Saints that are not of thy opinion . Rep. Here thou utterest forth thy lies , who art in the generation of lyers : the godly Preachers and Saints I censure not , but such as thou , who plead for sin and ungodlinesse , and saith , men cannot be perfect while they are here ▪ and opinions I deny , and all who are Saints deny opinions and conceivings , which thou livest in . Priest-Powel's QUERIES ANSWERED . Quest . 1. WHether Jesus Christ which died upon moun● Calvary by Jerusalem is now in that very body of flesh and blood in heaven ? Rep. Flesh and blood enters not into the Kingdome of heaven , but he that descended , is the same also that ascended far above all heavens , that he might fulfill all things , and Christ is spiritual , but thou natural man knowst him not , nor his body , which is spirituall , which we witnesse , who are members of his body , of his flesh , and of his bone . If thou canst read me , thou maist , who art without , who hast shut out thy selfe from Christ , and knowst him not ▪ but art disputing about the body of Christ , as the devill did about the body of Moses , Jude 9. And this Jesus we witnesse , who is the Son of God , who suffered upon the Mount Calvery , and was tempted of the cheife Priests , and the same Christ suffers now by the chiefe Priests , and is tempted as he was by such ( as thou ) who have the chiefest place in the Assembly , stand praying in the Synagogues , is called of men Master , and there thou art among them whom Christ cryed woe against . Quest . 2. Whether the Bible or the word of God written by the Prophets and Apostles is the rule to trye men , there doctrine and actions by ? Rep. Here thou shewest plainly thou art no Minister of Christ , and knowst not the word of God , which hast nothing to try men , there doctrine and actions by ▪ but the letter which thou callest the Bible , or written word , which is naturall and carnal ; and art a Minister of the letter , not of the spirit , and thou goest about to try the living By the dead , the spirit by the letter ; but they who are Ministers of God have the spirit of God by them : thou art tryed to be no Minister of God , and thy doctrine and actions are tryed to be the traditions of men the Saints witnessed the spirit of discerning , wherby they tryed the spirits whether they were of God , and we do witnesse the same spirit by which this spirit is tryed to be of Antichrist , who hath nothing to try by but the letter , which is carnal . Quest . 3. Whether art thou the Christ that suffered by Jerusalem ? Rep. Dost thou believe it ? Thou tempter , who art in the same generation , who said , we do adjure thee by the living God to tell us whether thou be the Christ , the Son of God , who art an enemy to Christ , and to all who confesse Christ come in the flesh ; for we witness the Son of God is come , and hath given us an understanding to know him who is true , but thou who knowest not Christ , there is no answer of God to thee , who art an unbeliever , but thy portion is with hypocrits and unbelievers , turned out from the presence of God into the lake of fire . Quest . 4. Dost thou believe the Scriptures , as Isaiah saith ? To the law , and to the Testimony . And as Paul saith , the Scriptures are able to make the man of God perfect . And to this Question thou sayst the Quakers refused to answer . Rep. Here thou art uttering forth more lyes , for I answered thee , and thy confusion was layd open and made manifest in the congregation ; for before thou saidst none could be perfect , and here thou takest the words of Paul in thy mouth , and out of thy own mouth thou art judged and found in confusion ; and Paul whose words thou takest in thy mouth , shall condemne thee , and all who live in sin , and plead for it , for hee was the Minister of God , and did not say that men must continue in sin so long as they are upon earth , as thou dost , but laboured to present every man without sin and blamelesse . Quest . 5. Where dost thou find that any of the Prophete , Apostles , or Saints , did ever quake and tremble in their bodies , and yell , and howle , and roare , to the scaring and amazing of men and beasts , as you do ? Rep. Here thou makest thy selfe plainely manifest to be ignorant of the power of God , and of the Saints conditions , and ignorant of the letter , for the Prophets , Apostles , and Saints did witnesse trembling and quaking , and did yell , howle and roare . David he roared because of the disquietness of his heart , and hee cryed in the day time , and in the night season , and was not silent . Job ▪ s roarings was poured out like water . The Inhabitants of the land shall howle saith the Lord Habakuck his belly trembled . Jeremiah cried out in his howels , that he was pained at the very heart , and that his heart made a noyse within him , and these things did the Saints witness , and we witnesse the same ; and it is to that scaring and amazing of such men and beasts as thou art , who abides not in the truth , but reviles and speaks evill of the power of God where it is made manifest in his people . There shall be a voice of howlings of the shepherds ▪ the Lord hath spoken it , and it is thy portion ▪ and in that day thou shalt know howling ▪ trembling and quaking . Priest Powel said , I read in Hab. 3. 16. Also in Job , David , Jeremiah and Ezekiel , that trembled , but not as thou and thy companions doe , for either they did it when they had visions of God , or at the sight of sinne , or the dreadfull judgements of God approaching , but thou and thy companions doe it not so . Rep. Here thou art uttering forth more lies and false accusations , for we doe witness the same power of God now as they did then , and we doe witness the promise of the Father , and the pouring downe of the spirit , old men dreame dreames , and young men see visions ; and upon his servants and handmaids hath hee poured forth his spirit , and this we witness , and he hath let us see sinne , and by his grace which hath appeared to us doe we deny sinne , and all ungodliness , and the dreadfull judgements of God . We witness against sin , but thou and thy generation of Priests deny visions and revelations , and say they are ceased , for to thee there is no vision thou man of sin , and so denies Jesus Christ the Son of God , for none knows the Father , but the Son , and he to whom the Son reveals him : and sinne thou seest not , but pleadst for it ; and the dreadful judgement of God thou knowest not , for if thou did , thou durst not despise and speak evil of the power of God manifested in his people , which witnesse these things , nor utter forth thy lyes as thou dost . Priest Powell said , you say ye have no sin , and thou teachest this to be necessary : where canst thou find such an instance or example ? Rep. Thou blind Pharisee , did not all the Ministers of God teach this to be necessary to deny all ungodliness and worldly lusts ? and they said , how could they that were dead to sin live any longer therein ? and they walked in the spirit , and did not fulfil the lusts of the flesh : and God beheld no sin Jacob , nor perversenesse in Israel ; and God said , the remnant of Israel 〈◊〉 do no iniquity , nor speak lyes , neither shall a deceitfull tongue be found in their mouths ; and this do we witnesse , who are taught by the grace of God , and do deny such as thou art , who are ministers for Satan , and to uphold sin and the works of the divel , which Christ came to destroy , and we witnesse them destroyed by Christ , and do deny the Antichrist . Againe , thou sayest Mr. Powell did propound to him , whether he would ask him any questions : whereupon as thou saist , the Quaker asked him , how hee could prove that any of the Ministers of God did stand in the highest place of the Synagogue over the people ? Rep. Here thou art adding lye unto lye , the question was , where canst thou prove that they who were sent forth by Jesus Christ , who were Ministers of the Gospel , did stand praying in the Synagogues , had the chiefest place in the assemblies , were called of men Master , as thou art ? Priest Powel answered , Ezra stood in a pulpit of wood above the people and prayed . Rep. Here thou shewst plainly that Christ never sent thee , for they whom Christ sent forth to preach the Gospel , never pleaded for a pulpit of wood to stand in to be above the people as Ezra did , who was a Scribe of the law , and thou who pretendst to be a Minister of the Gospel , and goest back to the law to Ezra for this example , thou mayest offer the bloud of Bulls and Goats , and Lambs , and goe to the Priests of the law for thy example , and so deny Jesus Christ come in the fresh as thou dost . Againe , thou saiest Mr. Powel gave answer to the satisfaction of the whole congregation , yea , to some of the seduced brethren , in so much that the whole congregation did wonderfully with one voice glorifie God at the discovery and conviction which the Lord made that time of them . Rep. Thou lyer and false accuser , who hast published forth thy lyes in print , that all you who have set your hands to it , who call your selves Members of the Church of Wrexham , all who read your lying libell may see you to bee in the generation of lyers , and of your Father the Divell , who was a lyer from the beginning , and when he speaketh a lye , he speaketh it of himselfe , for he is a lyar , and the father of it . For there was many in that Congregation whom thou hast layd heavy burthens upon by thy false Ministry , and thou hast left them without satisfaction , both by thy Ministry , by thy questions and answers ; and there was but few in the Congregation that uttered forth their voices to vindicate thee in thy deceit and sinne which thou pleadedst for , but some whom thou hast seduced and drawne into the same height of deceit with thy selfe , and most especially one drunken Priest , who for his drunkennesse , gluttony , pride and deceit , that his outward practises was seene so vile and abominable to the people , that hee was cast out as a prophane person , and hee was the cheife in that Congregation to plead for sinne with thee against the truth , when the word of the Lord was declared against your false ministry , and ungodly practises , which is seene by all those who live in the life of godlinesse , to them you are seene to bee deceivers and lying Prophets . And there is a people which was in that Congregation , whom the Lord is raising a light in their hearts , whereby thou and thy doctrine is discovered , and denyed as of Antichrist , and they doe glorifie God , on this behalfe that thou art discovered , who hast so long deceived them , who under thy Ministry have beene kept ever learning , and never come to the knowledge of the truth ; but now the Lord is making himselfe manifest in his people , and wee doe witness the Lord to be our Teacher , who hath discovered all false teachers , hirelings and deceivers to us ▪ Prayses , eternal prayses to him for ever . A Servant of the Lord , who is not greater then his Master , but in obedience as a Servant , must suffer under the same reproaches , temptations , slanders , and lying accusations by the Chiefe Priests , Scribes , and Pharisees , Hyppocrites and Lyers , Professours of the Church of WREXHAM . ; but my Lord and Master Jesus Christ hath left me a good example , and as he is , so are wee in this present world his followers . Whose name after the flesh , is Richard Hubberthorn . AN ANSWER TO Certaine Lyes and false aspersions cast upon the truth , and the Servants of JESUS CHRIST , BY One whose Name is subscribed William Spencer , and a Member of the Church of WREXHAM in WALES . 1. THou saidst thou wast a follower of these people called Quakers for several monthes together , and that thou quaked thy selfe in the sight of many people , and that thou lay the three nights last past with one of them , and that thou heard ( as it were ) the noise of an humble-Bee , buzzing about the head of the stranger , which made thee terribly afraid , and would have risen out of bed , but thee stranger b●d the lye still . Rep. Thou lyer and false accuser , thou hast published thy lies so openly , and made them so plainly manifest , that they who are enlightened in the least measure by the light of God , may discern and see thee given over to hardness of heart , and to speak lies , and publish them abroad . In thy first lying paper which was written from thy mouth , thou saist thou wast for a weeks space a follower of those thou callst Quakers , and here thou hast added more lies , and put them in print , and saist for several months together , which is a lye , and that thou quaked thy selfe in the sight of many people : that power which made thee to quake and tremble , I doe witness to be the power of the Lord , and to that in thy conscience which is of God , which did affright and terrifie thee thou man of sinne , and made thee to quake , I am made manifest unto , which shall eternally witness me , and condemne thee , who now goest about to speak evill of the power of God , and callest it the power of the divell ; but thou shalt know it was the power of God , which shall plague and torment thee for utter in ▪ forth thy lyes , and blasphemies against the Lord and his power . And whereas thou saidst thou was terribly affrighted with something like the noise of an humble-bee , thou canst fear ▪ where there is no fear ; for I do testifie from the Lord against thee that there was no such thing , but the deceit being got up in thy mind , and thou speakst from the vain imaginations of thy heart , uttering forth such things whereby thou wouldst render the truth odious by thy lyes . 2 And thou saidst thou wouldst have risen out of bed , but the stranger bad thee lye still . Rep. My exhortation was to the keeping thy mind out of the vaine imaginations which the deceit had drawne thee into ; but the deceit being strong in thee , and thou yielding obedience to it , it would not let thee rest ; and this was thy excuse as thou sayst in bed to me , that thou wast diseased with an infirmity in thy body , & thou felt thy selfe not well , telling me thou wouldst get up , and when I wished thee not to disturb the mans family which was in their beds , thou replyedst again to me , and saidst , the disease had used formerly to take thee , and would hold thee for the space of a week or longer sometimes ; and thou saidst to me , thou wouldst go to thy friends , for if thou staid till morning the Disease might increase more , and so disable thee from going home , which was about four miles from that place , as thou told me ; and under this pretence thou arose , and now the deceit the which thou art servant unto , hath made thee to change thy lyes . And now . 3. Thou saist the Quaker laid his head upon thy shoulder , and did blow hard like the hissing of a Goose or Gander , ( as thou hast reported it ) several times towards thy face or month , which made thee leap out of bed ( as thou saiest ) in thy shirt in much fear and agony . Rep. O thou Prince of darkness , who hast hatched a multitude of Lyes in thy dark imaginations , which arise out of the bottomlesse pit to make the truth of the Gospel odious , and the servants of Jesus Christ contemptible lyers ; but the Gospel and servants of Jesus Christ trample upon all such as then thou scornfully caldst me a Quaker ; that name I own , else should I deny the Holy men of God , as Meses , David , Daniel , and the rest , but thou shewest thy self plainly to be of that generation which alwayes scorned the holy men of God ; as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses , so thou who art of the same generation , seekest by thy filthy lyes and false reports to oppose the generation of the righteous seed who are coming out of bondage ; but shalt perish in thy gain-sayings . And whereas thou saiest there was a great and terrible wind , and that the woman and children of the house was in great fear : Rep. Here thou hast uttered forth more of thy lyes , for the man and woman of the house do bear witnesse against thee ; and when thou arose and went out of the house , thou toldst the man of the house the same thing as thou declaredst to me , which is formerly mentioned , which was contrary to these lies which here thou declarest and publishest abroad ▪ for which lyes thou must give an account before the Lord , who will judg thee in righteousnesse , and will not clear the guilty to pass unpunished . And again thou saiest , Thou testifiedst the next day publickly to my face the particulars before mentioned , and I could not deny , but thereupon deserted the meeting . Rep. I charge thee in the presence of God here with another lye , for I did deny thy lyes before all that people , and thou wentst forth of the meeting house before me : and here thou boasts thy selfe to do mischief , and shewest thy selfe to bee of the same Generation which said to David , Fie on thee , fie on thee , did we not see it ? And thou who hast published this lying Paper , saist , That the said Spencer ever since hath taken all opportunities publickly and privately , as at Wrexham , Oswalstrey , and elsewhere , to publish the same to the satisfying and confirming many in the truth of Christ against their Errors . Rep. Be silent thou Flesh before the Lord , and take not the name of Christ in thy mouth , who art satisfied and confirmed in those lyes , and callest them the truth of Christ , which is the deceit ▪ and lying spirit speaking from one who is departed from the Truth , and neglects no opportunity , publick nor private , to speak forth his lies , and goes about to confirm others in the same Deceit with himself to speak evil of the truth , and such cause the way of Truth to be evil spoken of ; but thou art discovered , and thy lyes are made manifest , and all who are satisfied and confirmed in the Truth , cannot be deceived by thee nor thy Errors , but to them thou art seen and discovered to be falne from Grace , and art servant to the Divel , whom thou servest , who is the father of Lyers . Blessed are ye when men shall revile you and persecute you , and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake . Rejoice and be exceeding glad , for great is your reward in heaven , for so persecuted they the Prophets which were before you . This Scripture I witness to be fulfilled , who am a Prisoner in outward bonds for the testimony of the Truth at West-Chester , whose name after the Flesh is JOHN LAWSON . FINIS . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A44848e-250 Hab. 2. 20 Zech. 2. 13 Mark 3. 24 , 25 Eph. ● . 1 Eph. 4. 3 ▪ 4 Matth. 23. 13 Jo. 8 42 , 44 2 Cor. 4 , 2 Rom. 15. 21 Titus 2 ▪ 12 Jam. 1 , 18. Hab. 1 , 9. Matth. 25. 15 Gal. 5 4. Joh. 12. 1 Cor. 12 ▪ 10 2 Tim. 3 ▪ 6 , 7 Matth. 23 Acts 17. 2 Acts 25. 13 Phil. 3. 10 1 Cor. 27. 6 , 7 Phil. 3. 15 Col. 1. 28 Col. 4. 12. Eph. 4 , 10 1 Cor. 2 ▪ 14 Eph. 5. 30 Luke 23. 33 Matth 23 Mat. 26 ▪ 63 1 John 5. 20 Tit. 1. 15 Revel ▪ 21 8 Luke 19. 22 Psal. 38. 6. 8 Psal. 22 1 , 2 Job 3. 24 Jer. 47. 2 Hab. 3. 16 Jer. 4. 12 ▪ 20 Zech. 11. 3 Amos 8. 3 Luke 10. 22. Titus 2. 12 Rom. 6 , 2 Rom. 8. 1 , Numb. 23. 21 Zeph. 3. 13 John 3 8 Matthew 23 1 John 4 3 John 8 44 1 Cor. 6 10 Ezek. 13 3 2 Tim. 3 13 Isa. 23 22 Isa. 54 13 
A48373	----	Liberty of conscience asserted and several reasons rendred why no outward force nor imposition ought to be used in matters of faith and religion with several sayings collected from the speeches and writings of King James and King Charles the First / John Crook, Samuel Fisher, Francis Howgill, Richard Hubberthorne. 1661 Approx. 16 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 5 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2005-10 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A48373 Wing L1960 ESTC R4077 12413704 ocm 12413704 61615 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A48373) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 61615) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 282:12) Liberty of conscience asserted and several reasons rendred why no outward force nor imposition ought to be used in matters of faith and religion with several sayings collected from the speeches and writings of King James and King Charles the First / John Crook, Samuel Fisher, Francis Howgill, Richard Hubberthorne. Crook, John, 1617-1699. Fisher, Samuel, 1605-1665. Howgill, Francis, 1618-1669. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. 8 p. Printed for Robert Wilson ..., London : 1661. "This was delivered into the hands of the members of both Houses of Parliament the last day of the third month, 1661." Reproduction of original in University of Texas Library. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. EEBO-TCP is a partnership between the Universities of Michigan and Oxford and the publisher ProQuest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by ProQuest via their Early English Books Online (EEBO) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). The general aim of EEBO-TCP is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic English-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in EEBO. EEBO-TCP aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the Text Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). The EEBO-TCP project was divided into two phases. The 25,363 texts created during Phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 January 2015. Anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. Users should be aware of the process of creating the TCP texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. Text selection was based on the New Cambridge Bibliography of English Literature (NCBEL). If an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in NCBEL, then their works are eligible for inclusion. Selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. In general, first editions of a works in English were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably Latin and Welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. Image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. Quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in Oxford and Michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet QA standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. After proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. Any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. Understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of TCP data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. Users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a TCP editor. The texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the TEI in Libraries guidelines. Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng England and Wales. -- Parliament. Liberty of conscience -- Early works to 1800. Freedom of religion -- England -- Early works to 1800. Religion and state -- England -- Early works to 1800. 2004-12 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-02 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-03 Mona Logarbo Sampled and proofread 2005-03 Mona Logarbo Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion Liberty of Conscience ASSERTED , And SEVERAL REASONS RENDRED , Why no Outward Force , nor Imposition , ought to be used in Matters of Faith and Religion : With several SAYINGS , Collected from the Speeches and Writings of KING JAMES , And KING CHARLES the First . John Crook Samuel Fisher Francis Howgill Richard Hubberthorne . Acts 5. 38 , 39. Now I say unto you , Refrain from these men , and let them alone : for if this Counsel , or this Work , be of men , it will come to nought : But if it be of God , you cannot overthrow it ; lest haply ye be found fighters against God. This was delivered into the hands of the Members of both Houses of Parliament , the last day of the Third Month , 1661. London , Printed for Robert Wilson , in Martins Le Grand , 1661. Liberty of Conscience Asserted , &c. LIBERTY of CONSCIENCE ought to be allowed in the dayes of the Gospel in the free Exercise of it to God-ward ( without Compulsion ) in all things relating to His Worship , for these Reasons following . 1. Because the General and Universal Royal Law of Christ Commands it Matth. 7. 12. All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you , do ye even so to them : for this is the Law and Prophets . That which every man would have and receive from another , he ought by Christ's Rule to give and allow it to another . But every man is willing to have the Liberty of his own Conscience , Therefore ought to allow it to another . 2. Because , No man can perswade the Conscience of another , either what God is , or how he should be worshipped , but by the Spirit , which God hath given to instruct man in the wayes of Truth . 3. Because , All Obedience or Service that is obtained by force , is for fear of Wrath , and not from Love , nor for Conscience sake ; and therefore will but continue so long as that fear or force abides upon them . 4. Because , That by forcing , No man can make a Hypocrite to be a true Believer ; but on the contrary , many may be made Hypocrites . 5. Because , That in all forced Impositions upon mens Consciences there is something of the Wrath of man exercised , which works not the Righteousness of God , bur rather begets Enmity in the heart one towards another . 6. Because , that by forcing any thing upon mens Consciences , as to matters of Faith and Worship , many are hardened in their hearts against the things imposed ; when as otherwise , through Love and gentle Instructions their hearts might be perswaded to willing Obedience . 7. Because , That Persecution for Conscience contradicteth Christ's Charge , Matth. 13. who bids , that the Tares ( or false worshippers ) be suffered to grow together in the Field ( or World ) till the Harvest ( or End of the World. ) 8. Because , Force is contrary to the End for which it is pretended to be used ( viz. ) the preservation and safety of the Wheat , which End is not answered by Persecution , because the Wheat is in danger to be plucked up thereby , as Christ saith . 9. Because , to force , is inconsistent with the Belief of the Jews Conversion ( and other false worshippers ) which is prayed for by the Publick Teachers , and cannot be attained , if Persecution for Conscience be prosecuted . 10. Because , they that impose upon mens Consciences , exercise Dominion over mens Faith , which the Apostles denyed , saying , they had not Dominion over any mens Faith. 11. Because , Imposition upon mens Consciences necessitates them to sin , in yeelding a Conformity contrary to their own faith : for whatsoever is not of a mans own faith , is sin . 12. Because , that Imposition and force wrestles with flesh and blood , and Carnal weapons , which is contrary to the Apostles Doctrine , who said , Our VVeapons are not Carnal , but Spiritual , and mighty through God : and we wrestle not with flesh and bloud . 13. Because , there is but one Judge , Law-giver and King in and over the Conscience , as the Saints have testified in the Scriptures of Truth ; and whosoever would intrude , so as to be Judge and Law-giver over the Conscience , intrencheth upon the Prerogative of Christ , Isa. 33. 22. James 4. 12. 14. Because , it is prophesied in Isa. 11. The Wolf shall dwell with the Lamb , and the Leopard shall lye down with the Kid , and there shall be no Destroyer in all he Holy Mountain ; and therefore no Imposition upon mens Consciences . 15. Because , to impose upon mens Consciences for differences in Faith , is contrary to the Advice of the Apostle , who directs People to wait upon God to be satisfied , and not to the Magistrate or Others , to be forced ; who saith , VVhereunto we have attained , let us walk ; and wherein any man is otherwise-minded , God shall reveal , even that unto him . 16. Because , To force mens Consciences , and to lay Yoaks upon them , is to make void the Blood-shed and Sufferings of Christ , who sits upon the Throne of the Conscience , and gives libeyty there ; and commands us to stand fast in that Liberty , and not to be entangled through the Impositions of men , or Yoak of Bondage , Gal. 5. 6. 17. Because in all Nations the different Professions and Perswasions of Religion , are either Friends or Enemies to the Governours : If Friends then obliged by that Bond. If Enemies then Christ's Command is to take place , who saith , Love your Enemies ; which if observed , Persecution for Conscience will be avoided . 18. Because , Toleration of different Perswasions in Religion was allowed in the Jewish State , as not Inconsistent with their Safety , and that in things contrary each to other , as the Sadduces , Pharisees , Essaeans , Herodians with Others . 19. Because , the True Religion cannot be Preached up by force of Armes , and the Primitive Christians detested that Form of Proceedings . 20. Because , No man hath such Power over the Souls and Consciences of other men , as to lay a Necessity on them to Believe that which they do not Believe , or not to Believe what they do Believe : True Faith being the Gift of God. 21. Because , If the Magistrate Imposeth upon the Conscience , he must either do it as a Magistrate , or as a Christian. Not as a Magistrate , for then Heathens ( being Magistrates ) have the same Power to Impose ; and so , by Revolutions and Conquests , may come to give Laws to Christians , and Compel them to Idolatry . 2. Not as Christians , for that Contradicts Christ's saying , The Kings of the Gentiles exercise Lordship over them ; but it shall not be so among you , for all ye are , Brethren . 22. Because , By the same Rule and Reason that the Magistrate of one Nation ought to Impose upon , and Persecute for Conscience , the Magistrates in all other Nations ought to do the same ; and so the greatest part of Mankind may come to be Destroyed , there being more that Dissent , than are at Unity in Matters of Faith and Religion . 23. Because , The Strength of Truth , and its Conquest over Falsity and Deceit , is best Discovered by letting both have their Liberty , from out 〈◊〉 and 〈…〉 sion ; For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ou 〈…〉 ard Force been less used , the prevalency of Truth had been more manifest , and that wife saying , truly experienced in the World , Viz. That which i● of God will stand , and that which is not will come to nothing . 24. Because , The Disciples of Christ are rebuked by him for desiring the Destruction of those that were contrary to Him , and would not receive Him : which Zeal is sharply reproved in His saying , They knew not what Spirit they were of . 25. Because , To Impose upon mens Consciences , and to Destroy their Persons for Difference in Religion , is Contrary to the End of Christ's Coming , who saith , He came not to Destroy mens Lives , but to save them . 26. Because , People of divers Religions in one Nation , if not tolerated , must some of them be destroyed , or removed by Banishment . If destroyed , the Constancy and Patience of the Sufferers for their Faith , moving Pitty and Commiseration , makes men more ready to own , than to reject their Faith , and so rather Multiplies , than lessens , the number of its Professors . If Banish'd , this renders the Banished as so many Enemies abroad , ready upon all occasions to disturbe the Peace and Tranquillity of their own native Countrey . There is therefore , in order to the outward welfare of all Nations , a kind of Necessity for a Toleration in them of all Religions . 27. Because , To Impose upon mens Consciences begets a hatred against the Imposers in those who are Imposed upon , and forc'd thereby to violate their Consciences towards God in matters of Worship . 28. Because , Men are Commanded to be subject to the Powers that are , for Conscience sake , and therefore such Powers ought not to Persecute men for Conscience sake , being that is prescribed for the rule of Obedience ; The Scripture saying , Be ye subject not onely for wrath , but for Conscience sake . 29. We find it Asserted by King James in his speech to the Parliament in the Year , 1609. who said , That it is a pure rule in Divinity , That God never loves to plant his Church with Uiolence and Blood ; and furthermore said , It was usually the condition of Christians to be Persecuted , but not to Persecute . 30. And we find the samething in substance asserted again , by his ) Son Charles the first , in his Book known by the Name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , Printed for R. Royston , as followeth . Page 67. In his Prayer to God , he said , Thou seest how much Cruelty amongst Christians is acted , under the colour of Religion ; as if we could not be Christians , unless me Crucifie one another . Pag. ●8 . Make them at length seriously to consider , that nothing Uiolent and Injurious , can be Religious . Pag. 70. Nor is it so proper to ●ew out Religious Reformations by the Sword , as to pollish them by fair and equal Disputations , among those that are most concer●●d in the Differences , whom , not Force , but Reason ought to convince . Sure in matters of Religion , those Truths gain most upon mens Judgements and Consciences , which are least urged with Segular Ui●lence , which weakens Truth with Prejudices . Pag. 115. It being an Office not onely of Humanity , rather to use Reason than Force , but also of Christianity to seek Peace and ensue it . Pag. 91 , 92. In point of true Conscientious tenderness , I have often Declared , how little I desire my Laws and Scepter , should intrench on God's Soveraignty , which is the onely King of mens Consciences . Pag. 123. Nor do I desire any man should be farther subject unto me , than all of us may be subject unto God. Concerning Oaths . P. 76. The Injoyning of Oathes , upon People , must needs in things doubtful be Dangerous , as in things unlawful Damnable . Some words of Advice from CHARLES the First , to the then Prince of Wales , now King of England , &c. Pag. 165. My Counsel and Charge to you is , That you seriously consider the former Real or Objected Miscariages , which might occasion my Troubles , that you may avoid them , &c. Beware of Exasperating any Factions , by the Crosness and Asperity of some mens Passions , Humors , and private Opinions , Imployed by you , grounded ●●●ly upon differences in lesser matters , which are but the Skirts and Suburbs of Religion , wherein a Charitable Connivance , and Christian Toleration , often Dissipates their strength , when rougher Opposition Fortyfies , and puts the despised and oppressed party into such Combinations , as may most enable them to get a full Revenge on those they count their Persecutors . Pag. 166. Take heed that outward Circumstances and Formalities of Religion Devour not all . Pag. 164. Your Prerogative is best shewed and exercised in Remitting , rather than Exacting the Rigor of the Laws , there being nothing worse than Legal Tyranny . Acts 5. 33 , 34 , 35. Gamaliel said unto them , Ye men of Israel , take heed unto your selves , what ye intend to do as touching these men , &c. Acts 18. 12 , 13 , 14 , 15 , 16. Gallio said , If it were a matter of wrong , or wicked lewdness , Reason would that I should bear with you : But if it be a question of words and names , and of your Law , look ye to it : for I will be no Judge of such matters . THE END . 
A44841	----	The Quakers house built upon the rock Christ Wherein neither their doctrines, principles, nor practices can be confounded, not disproved; being neither damnable, nor pernitious. As Samuel Hammond hath falsly affirmed in his book called, The Quakers house built upon the sand: or, a discovery of the damnablenes of their pernitious doctrins, in his answer to G.W. which to prove, he lays down seven grounds of delusion, and five arguments of damnable doctrine. But in this answer his seven grounds is proved false in themselves, ...; and his five arguments is proved to be his own false positions, ... as first, he lays down false positions, and then proves them false; and then boasts, as if he had proved our doctrines or principles false: the truth of which is herein clearly made manifest, and wherein he falsly accuseth us, he is justly guilty himselfe. Also the ten fundamentall principles or doctrines of the hireling priest-hood, ... By a servant to the Church of Christ, ... Richard Hubberthorne. ... Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A44841 of text R221606 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing H3227A). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 99 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 24 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A44841 Wing H3227A ESTC R221606 99832900 99832900 37375 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A44841) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 37375) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 2187:17) The Quakers house built upon the rock Christ Wherein neither their doctrines, principles, nor practices can be confounded, not disproved; being neither damnable, nor pernitious. As Samuel Hammond hath falsly affirmed in his book called, The Quakers house built upon the sand: or, a discovery of the damnablenes of their pernitious doctrins, in his answer to G.W. which to prove, he lays down seven grounds of delusion, and five arguments of damnable doctrine. But in this answer his seven grounds is proved false in themselves, ...; and his five arguments is proved to be his own false positions, ... as first, he lays down false positions, and then proves them false; and then boasts, as if he had proved our doctrines or principles false: the truth of which is herein clearly made manifest, and wherein he falsly accuseth us, he is justly guilty himselfe. Also the ten fundamentall principles or doctrines of the hireling priest-hood, ... By a servant to the Church of Christ, ... Richard Hubberthorne. ... Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. 47, [1] p. s.n., [London? : 1659] Imprint from Wing. In response to Hammond, Samuel. The Quakers house built upon the sand. Reproduction of the original in the Friends' House Library, London. eng Hammond, Samuel, d. 1665. -- Quakers house built upon the sand -- Controversial literature -- Early works to 1800. Whitehead, George, 1636?-1723 -- Early works to 1800. A44841 R221606 (Wing H3227A). civilwar no The Quakers house built upon the rock Christ. Wherein neither their doctrines, principles, nor practices can be confounded, not disproved; b Hubberthorn, Richard 1659 20202 148 0 0 0 0 0 73 D The rate of 73 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the D category of texts with between 35 and 100 defects per 10,000 words. 2004-12 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-02 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-04 Rachel Losh Sampled and proofread 2005-04 Rachel Losh Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion THE QUAKERS HOUSE Built upon the Rock CHRIST . Wherein neither their Doctrines , Principles , nor Practises can be confounded , nor disproved ; being neither damnable , nor pernitious . As Samuel Hammond hath falsly affirmed in his Book called , The Quakers House Built upon the Sand. Or , a Discovery of the damnablenes of their pernitious Doctrins , in his Answer to G. W. which to prove , he lays down seven Grounds of Delusion , and five Arguments of Damnable Doctrine . But in this Answer his seven Grounds is proved false in themselves , if they were ( as they are not ) true against us ; And his five Arguments is proved to be his own false Positions , not according to our Doctrine and Principles : As first , he lays down false Positions , and then proves them false ; and then boasts , as if he had proved our Doctrines or Principles false : The truth of which is herein clearly made manifest , and wherein he falsly accuseth us , he is justly guilty himselfe . Also the ten Fundamentall Principles or Doctrines of the Hireling Priest-hood , here Discovered . This is given forth , that all those that have wilfully , ( and from pride and presumpt on of spirit , ) opposed the living truth , and the breaking-forth of light from the pure everlasting Fountain of life , may put their mouthes in the dust , and keep silence , if so be for them there may be hope . For the lying Tongue will God confound , but the lipp of Truth will he establish for ever . By a Servant to the Church of Christ , which is built of tryed ( and living ) stones , Richard Hubberthorne . In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel , be justified and shall glory , Isay 45. 25. over all the false Prophets which haue deceived the nations : among whom is found the blood of the Saints . The Quakers House Built upon the Rocke CHRIST , &c. THe holy Seed which the living Father doth manifest his Life , Spirit , and Power unto in all Ages , hath been , and is , the reproach of the World , and of all them that be strangers to the life of God , and to Christs life manifest in the mortall bodies ; And though this seed be that which the Father hath blessed , and hath received the truth , and by the truth is set free , ( according to Christs words , John 8. 31. ) yet in the world from slanderous Tongues and false accusations , we expect not to be free , but to beare his reproaches , and in the patience and power of the Lambe to overcome them , for God will bring forth our Righteousnesse , Truth , and Innocency to shine as the light before all people , whereby all hard speeches , and false reproaches will be wiped away out of the Nations : And that shall fulfill and accomplish , that which in words we declare ; and in that are we known to God , and shall be known to the world . And now , seeing that it hath pleased the Father to reveale his Sonne in us , and to open the hidden treasures of his life , and hath given us of his holy Spirit , and the Tongue of the Learned , we shall not cease to improve his gift , in speaking what we know , and testifie what we have seen ; both by holding forth the truth in the World . and by testifying against that in the World which is contrary to it . For now hath the living God opened the Fountain of Life abundantly , and is drying up the Fountain of words , ( where the life is wanting . ) And the Lord by his eternall Spirit is giving an understanding to many , whereby they are able to discern of things that differ , and to know every Tree by its Fruit , and to try all things by that measure of his light and holy spirit which he hath given them . And to that which is of God in all people doe I commit my Testimony , to be read and understood . Now this from the meek spirit of Christ , in Answer to that which from the pride , presumption , and arrogancy of Hammonds spirit , is come forth against the living truth it selfe , and the servants of it ; but every Tongue that riseth up in judgement against us , will God confound . First , S. H. saith , That the Quakers House is built upon the Sand , &c. Answer . How is it then that the Sea hath so long roared , and listed up its Waves , and the Winds hath blown , and it is not yet falne ? Have not you ( of all Professions ) joyned together ? and have not your Voyces been as the Voyce of many Waters against us ? And have you not been as blustring Winds , which if we had regarded , we should not have sowne the seed of the Kingdom ? ( As the Prophet hath said , He that regards the Winde shall not sow , Eccl. 11. 4. ) So , if we had regarded your noyses , uproars , swelling words of Vanity , lyes , acensations , or persecutions , we had not been obedient to the Lord , nor done his worke . But the Lord hath made our persecutors to stumble , according to his promise ; and his enemies are even weary with smiting of his children , ( Ier. 9. 5. ) And he is giving his power , and dominion to his anoynted ones of the whole Earth ; And hath ordained his arrowes against the persecutors , Psal. 7. 13. And in the Lord shall all the Seed of Israel be justified , and shall glory , Isay 45. 25. in this the day of the Lords power , when the life of the holy Child Jesus is appearing in the dark places of the Earth , who is the Rock of Ages , and the Foundation of many Generations , upon which we are built , and stand a witnesse against all the unrighteousnesse of men ; the proofe of which is not because we say so ; but the appearing , and breaking forth of his life , and the fruits of his holy spirit shall make it manifest : And to all these that desire the knowledge of Gods wayes , it will be known perfectly that God is amongst us , and that his spirit , power , and presence is with us . Again Sam. Hammond saith , That his Book is a discovery of the pernitious and damnable Doctrines of the Quakers . And for securing the Saints , &c. Answer . A refuge of lyes will not secure the saints , ( as I shall prove his Book to be : ) neither can he which is in the Doctrine , which is pernitious and damnable , discover them in others , ( nor to others ; ) as I shall prove in that which followeth , in reply to his Book . And first , to begin with his Method , which is as he saith . First , to shew the grounds of the Quakers Delusions . Secondly , to demonstrate the impossibility of salvation , in , and by their Principles . Thirdly , to answer George Whitheads cavills in his Pamphlet , as S. H. falsely calls it . First cause of Delusion . S. H. A spirit of giddinesse hanging loose to the truth , and the love of it , &c. and to prove it , he saith , That there is three sorts of people that turne Quakers . The first , are unlearned , and unstable , and these are they which have been ancient Professors . The second sort , young men and women , which have been under convictions and awakenings of the Law , and are come to terrors and shakings , and brought into a Covenant of Works , &c. The third sort , such , who for covetous ends to save their tythes , have rashly closed with them . Ans. As for a spirit of giddinesse hanging loose to the truth , that thou shalt never find in us , for we are staid and established in the Lord , and in his truth , and shall be faithfull in the truth of God which we have received , untill we see the Land cleansed of all Hirelings , and Deceivers , which make a Prey upon the people for dishonest gaine ; for from you who pretend to be Teachers of others , is prophanesse gone forth into all the Earth ; and your wayes and Doctrines have corrupted it , so that not a pure heart , nor an undefiled mind and conscience can be found in your Congregations , not one that is unreproveable in the sight of God ; and Gods witnesse in you all , shall seale to the truth of my testimony . And as for those three sorts of people which thou saith turn Quakers . First , ancient Professors , these knew as much ( and practised more ) of things which were just and righteous ( then thou dost ) before they knew the life and power of truth , which now they live in , and are both learned and established in the things of God . And why doth thou accuse them for being unlearned and unstable before they turned to us , while they followed thee , and such like ? Here thou proves thy own Doctrine that which doth not learn , not establish people , ( and not ours : ) For if they were anciest Professors under that Ministery , and not learned nor established ; consider where the cause was ! How could they be established , where they found neither life nor power of God amongst you ? But now they have found him of whom Moses and the Prophets did Write that should come , and they doe not look for another : And now are they both learned and established in the wayes of God ; And therefore doe not thou upbraid them with what they were before they received the truth in the love of it , and obedience to it . And as for the young men and women of which thou saith is come to terrous , and shakings , and convictions , then they are come further then ever thou came ; for they that are sensible of convictions , terrours , and shakings , wrought by the Spirit of God , they may be thy Teachers , which hath but the words of them , and art ignorant of the power by which they were wrought , and therefore thou brings forth such words of darknesse as thou hast expressed , as that thoso that follow the light of an awakened Conscience , and sit downe under that , and are under terrours , and shakings ; that these are ●nllod a sleep by Satan . Is not this blindnesse , and ignorance ? is this according to the forme of sound words ? were they nor a sleep before their Consciences were awakened ? But now , when they follow the light which wakens their Consciences , ( which is the light of Christ , ) and when they , through the obedience to his light , doe the works of righteousnesse , is this a ground of delusion ? or when they are thus led , dost thou say , they are then lulled a sleep by Satan ? this is a putting darknesse for light , and light for darknesse ; and in stead of shewing us to be in the ground of delusion , thou shews thy own ignorance and blindnesse to all that are able to discerne any thing of truth . And for the third sort , which thou saith , for covetous ends to save their Tythes , hath joyned with us ; In this will all sober people , and men of understanding beare witnesse against thee , and by the effects , ( even their sufferings ) thou will be condemned , as hundreds of this Nation hath suffered the spoyling of their Goods , and Imprisonment for a testimony against you , and them , which covetous men could not doe ; as some , for the value of five shillings Tythes , have goods taken worth five pounds : and for three pounds worth of Tythe , goods taken worth ten pounds and for Tythes of the value of two shillings , taken ten shillings . And many I could instance which have had taken from them seven times the value , and ten times the value , and some forty times the value . And then , how is this for covetousnesse ? And others here in this County of Bishopriok the Priests send their men to take peoples Lamb● out of the field , and off the Common , and their Corne off the field ( which they have laboured for ) without any Law , or pretence of Law , which according to Law might be proceeded against ; as Sheep-stealers , and Corne-stealers : which if there be Law to give them Tythes , then according to the order of Law they are to receive it , and not to take mens goods by violence ; and thus we suffer the spoyling of our goods with joy , which if we for covetousnesse denyed Tythes , as Hammond accuseth us , we could not suffer men to act so contrary to both Law and Gospel , and spoyle our Goods , and beare it patiently ; and many thousands in this Nation , can in faithfulnesse , beare witnesse against him in this thing , that it is not for covetousnesse , but in obedience to the Lord , and bearing a faithfull witnesse against the Ministery , that make merchandize of soules ( and of their goods also ) which the Lord is bringing downe by the arme of his power , and making their folly manifest unto all men ; And , according to his promise , he will bring a shame , and a perpetuall reproach upon them , which by their iniquity , and their heavy burthens have kept in captivity the Seed of God , which now by his mighty power he is bringing forth , to prayse and glorifie him , and to rejoyce over all the false Prophets and Teachers which hath caused them to suffer in the time of darknesse and ignorance . The second ground of our delusion , as Samuel Hammond saith , is this . Priest . Our not being able to distinguish betwixt the rightsousnesse imputed upon the account of the blood of Christ ; and the righteousnesse , or holinesse wrought in us by the Spirit , &c. Ans. If this were true , this were not a ground of delusion , for God will not give any up to a reprobate sense ; nor condemne them for their not being able to distinguish ; for then he should condemne them for not doing that which they are nor able to doe . Here thou art ignorant of the Scriptures , and of the ground of delusion ; and it being my Duty and Calling to instruct the ignorant , and him that is out of the way : I shall shew thee the grounds of delusion , according as it is written in the Scriptures , as Rom. 1. 21. Because that when they know God , they glorified him not as God , neither were thankefull , but became vaine in their imaginations , and their foolish heart was darkned . Ver. 22. Professing themselves to be wise , they became fooles ; ( as thou hast done : ) And wer . 28. And even as they did not like to retaine God in their Knowledge , God gave them over to a reprohato minde , to doe those things which are not convenient . And this was not , because they were not able to distinguish ; but because they did not like to retaine God in their Knowledge : And because , that when they knew God , they glorified him not as God ; and by the Fruits by which they were manifest to be reprobates , Let all people of understanding judge , whether we , or thy Generation of Priests , be more guilty ; and then they will know the Tree by the Fruit , as ver. 29. And as for thy charging of us , as not being able to distinguish ; this is but thy false accusation ; for the Lord hath given us of his spirit , whereby we are able to distinguish and discerne of things that differ ; And that righteousnesse which is wrought by Jesus Christ in us , is to us a seale of that righteousnesse which was wrought in the Person of Christ , and of that which in his blood is imputed to us for justification . And whereas thou saith , That we confound inherent , and imputed Righteousnesse ; that is but thy reproaching of us . And here thou art erred from the forme of sound words ; for the Scriptures doth not use these words to distinguish of Christs righteousnesse , as inherent and imputed , though by thy meaning , that which is wrought in us by Christ , thou wilt call inherent ; and that which was wrought in his Person without us , imputed : but this I say unto thee , That if thou continue ignorant of Christ , and his righteousnesse within thee , thy imputing of him , and his righteousnesse without , will not save thee : And while thou keeps people from Christ within them , and his righteousnesse within them , thou keep● them from that mistery which the Apostle Preached amongst the Gentiles , which had been hid from ages and generations ; but now is made manifest to the Saints , which is Christ in them the hope of glory , ( Col. 1. 26. 27 ) and this is your work , by your Preaching and Printing , ( all of you in that Ministery ) who are erred from the form of sound words ( into your own imaginations ) in this age , to hide the riches of the glory of this mystery from the people , which is Christ in them the hope of glory ; and you would keep people in the sound of a report of Christ in words , and from his life , by which the saints was saved ; and the life of Christ was made manifest in their mortall bodies , ( 2. Cor. 4. 11. ) But Samuel Hammond affirmes , as his Principle or Doctrine in pag. 10. of his Book , That the Scripture sends us to the right hand of God , to Christ ; not to Christ in us ; Neither doe I know ( saith he ) any word of Scripture that bids us goe to the light in us , though it should mean Christ in us , that is , the work of grace in us ; And to prove it , he brings , Col. 3. 1. Heb. 12. 2. Ans. As I said before , it is my work and calling to instruct the ignorant , and him that is out of the way : Seeing that he saith , that he knows not any word of Scripture , that bids us goe to the light in us , though it should meane Christ in us , that is , the worke of grace in us . If he stand upon these very words , Goe to the light in us ; neither doth the Scripture say , Goe to the right hand of God to Christ ; but as it saith , that Christ is at the right hand of God , and sitteth at the right hand of God ; and that they must seek those things which are above , where Christ sitteth ( Col. 3. 1. ) so the Scripture saith likewise , that Christ is within , ( Col. 1. 27. ) And this was the Mystery the Apostle Preached ; and the Apostle saith , Know you not that Christ is in you , except ye be reprobates ? ( 2 Cor 13. 5. ) and likewise he declares of the light in them , ( 2 Cor. 4. 6. ) For God who commanded the light to shine out of darknesse , hath shined in our hearts , to give the light of the Knowledge of the glory of God , in the face of Jesus Christ : so the light which shined in their hearts , did give them the light of the Knowledge of the glory of God , in the face of Jesus Christ . And David said , that he had hid the Word in his heart ; And that the Word was a lampe to his feet , and a light unto his paths , ( Psal 119. 11. and ver. 105. ) so here was light within , and by this light within he was guided , and by this light within they did not confound inherent and imputed righteousnesse ( as he calls it ) as he falsly accuseth us to doe . And the Apostle Peter directs them to the light within , and saith , We have a more sure word of Prophesie , unto which ye doe well to take heed , as unto a light that shines in a darke place , untill the day dawne , and the day , starre arise in your hearts , ( 2 Pet. 1. 19 ) so the day was to dawne , and the day-starre to arise in their hearts . Obj. But saith the Priests , that sure Word of Prophesie was the Scriptures of the Prophets , and not a light within , because ver. 20. 21. it saith , Knowing this first , that no Prophesie of the Scriptures is of any private interpretation : For the Prophesie came not in old time by the will of man , but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the holy Ghost , &c. Ans. The Scriptures of the Prophets is not more sure , nor more true , then the Scriptures of the Apostles ; neither is the Visions of the Prophets , more sure that the Visions of the Apostles : Now that which the Apostle aludes to , Was the voyce which came from the excellent glory , which Voyce they heard , when they were with him in the holy Mount : so to them to whom he Wrote , the light which shined in their hearts , which brought them to waite for the day-daw●ing and the day fear a●ssing was more neer , and more sure to them ( though not to the Apostle ) then the declaration in words , or writing , of that which others have seen or heard , though that which they have seen and heard be true as any thing that is Written : as thus , For me to be obedient to the measure of light and life that appears , and is manifest to me , is to me more a seale ( or a more sure word ) to take heed unto , then the words or writings that proceed from a greater manifestation in another , though by this , the truth of the greater , ( or surenesse of it ) is not denyed by the lesser light ; but wayted for that the greatest manifestation , or discovery of the Father , may be as sure , and as true to me , as to those that have declared it : He that hath an eare to heare the truth , let him heare ; and he that can receive it , let him . Now because Priest Hammond saith , that he knows not any word of Scripture , that bids us goe to the light in us , though it should mean Christ in us , that is , the worke of grace in us . Now whereas he falsly accuseth George Whithead , that he is not well read in the literall Knowledge of the Scriptures , he justly condemns himselfe : For if he were well read in the literall Knowledge of the Scriptures , he would know , that the Scripture speaks of the light within , of Christ within , and of the worke of gracs within , which he hath declared his ignorance of ; but his end of so speaking , is to keep people from the light within , which gives the Knowledge of the glory of God , and from the Word within , and the Kingdom within , and the grace within , in which their hearts should be established , ( Heb. 13. 9. ) and by grace they were saved , ( Ephes. 2. 5. ) and that being justified by his Grace , we should be made beires according to the hope of eternall life , ( Tit. 3. 7. ) And the Word of Christ was to dwell in them richly in all Wisedome , from which they were to a imonish one another in Psalmes , and Hymnes and spirituall Songs , singing with grace in their hearts to the Lord , ( Col. 3. 16. ) and their speech was to be alwayes with grace , seasoned with salt , that they might know how to answer every man , ( Col. 4. 6. ) and all these is to be known within . And Christs Doctrine to the Pharisees was , to bring their minds to within ; and told them , the Kingdom of God was within them , ( Luke 17. 21. ) and Christ bids them , Beleave in the light , while they have the light , that they may be the children of light , ( John 12. 36. ) And Jesus said unto them , I am the light of the World , he that followeth me shall not walke in darknesse , but shall have the light of life , ( John 8. 12 ) and Iohn ( a man sent from God ) came for a witnesse to beare witnesse of the light , that all men through him might beleeve ; and saith , this was the true light which enlightneth every man which commeth into the world ; and in this light Christ bid them beleeve in , and follow . And Paul said , that he was sent to opes their eyes , and to turne people from the darknesse to the light , from the power of Satan unto God , that they might receive the remission of their sins , and be partakers of the inheritance among them that was sanctified , ( Acts 26. 18. ) and this was the Gospel which the Apostles Preached , and hereby may the ignorant be instructed which hath not read any word in the Scripture of light within , of Christ within , nor the worke of grace within , which I have read of all these to be within , and beleeved it . Harmonds third Ground of our Delution is this , Pr. Their not being able to distinguish betwixt being justified ●coly by Grace , which is the favour of God , upon the account of shrist : satisfaction , and the Grace wrought by the spirit in the senls : or rather , that naturall light , which being improved , they call Grace , ( as he saith . ) Ans This is like the other , proceeding onely from ignorance ; For God will not give us up to delusions that we may be damned for that which we are not able to doe ; for God doth ●e puire according to what a man hath , and not according to what a man hath not ; for if we have not power , nor ability , he will not condemne us for that ; but for ahusing that power , and ability which he hath given us , to be obedient unto him in , for that he is condemned , and because that he doth not retaine God in his Knowledge , therefore he is given up to a reprobate sence , and to strong delusions . And whereas thou saith , That we cannot distinguish between the Grace of God , which is the favour of God , upon the account of Christs satisfaction , and the naturall light , which being improved , ( thou saith ) we call grace . Ans. Yea , We have alwayes distinguished between the justifying Grace , and a naturall light , for the light of the Sunne , and of the Moon , and Starrs , is narorall ; and by their light the naturall man sees the Creation , and the things in it . And we never said , that this ( if improved ) was the Grace , & so thou falsly accuseth us . And that light which we say is within , and which Christ hath enlightened every man withall , is not to be distinguished from the favour of God ; for it is the love and favour of God to man , that his free Grace , which bringeth salvation , hath appeared unto all men , ( Tit. 2. 11. ) and by this Grace , ( and not another ) are they saved , who are saved , though thou , and others , turne this grace into wantennesse , and then speaks despightfully against the spirit of it , and against its being within ; For if people be once brought to the grace of God within , and the light within , then they will see your deceitfull Teachings without ; but while you ear keep them blinde , you may Preach for Hire , and Divine for Money , and they will love to have it so : but so soon as any comes to the grace within , and the light within , then they see your wayes , and Doctrines , and receives the testimony of the Lord against you ; which testimony is now going forth in the mighty power of the Lord ; and God hath raysed up his Sonne , which is the light of the World , and his faithfull witnesse in his Children ; and thousands shall come to the brightnesse of his rising , whereby you shall all be discovered who hath laboured to quench his appearance , and the breaking forth of his light , which will stand over you for ever . Hammonds fourth Ground of Delusion , is this : Pr. Our not distinguishing betwixt the Covenant of Works , and the Covenant of Grace ; and for the proofe of this , instances the Perfect Pharisee ; and because we say , That Christ is the end of the Law for righteousnesse , &c. Aus. Let all people take notice of his proofe ; those lye● and false accusations which he and Coale , Yrideaux , Weld , and Durant did speak against ( us five yeares since ) which was proved false by the Answer to it , those he takes as sufficient proofes for his false accusing of us ; now men of understanding , will be ashamed of his Folly : if because that he standered , and falsly accused us five years agoe , and doth so now again ; Is his first lye made a proofe for his second ? If he would have proved any thing against us , our Doctrine , or Principles , to be a ground of delusion , he should have proved it from our words or writings , and not from his own accusations ( as by the Perfect Pharisee . ) Againe , he brings our words , because that we have said , that Christ is the end of the Law for righteousnesse ; therefore this proves the ground of our delusion ; and that we cannot distinguish betwixt the Covenant of Grace and the Covenant of Works . Then the Apostle is proved to be in the ground of delusion , as well as we , for he said the same words , ( Rom. 10 4. ) and this ( saith he ) is the direct Popish Doctrine , who say , that Christ is the end of the Law for righteousnesse , as in the fifth page of his Book ; but , saith he , they expresse it of inherent righteousnesse , ( and so calls it ) because Christ works it in them . Answer . As to say , that we expresse it , and call it inherent , we have not so exprest it , nor called it so . But if because Christ works his righteousnesse in us , we say , the righteousnesse of the Law is fulfilled in us , who walke not after the flesh , but after the spirit , ( Rom. 8. 4. ) If we say , that Christ is the end of the Law for Righteousnesse , this is not Popish Doctrine , nor ground of delusion ; but both the Apostles , and we , must beare the reproaches of the World , and the conrradiction of sinners , if we beare witnesse for Christ against the World . Hammonds fifth Ground of Delusion is , Pr. Our not distinguishing betwixt saving light given forth by Christ in conversion , and the light of conscience , which every man hath as a rationall Creature : and for proofe , brings the Perfect Pharisee ; and saith , that will confirme it ; as if his first lye would confirme his second . Ans. Sam. Hammond , thou hast been too hasty in thy discourse , to prove the grounds of our delusion ; ( and I cannot say in these things , that thou hast gone about in cunning devised Fables , but in such as is manifest to the least measure of understanding in all : ) Hast thou known such a thing from any example before thee , to prove a thing against us from thy own words , without any ground from us , in thy so often mentioning the Perfect Pharisee ; which is thy former reproach , to prove this latter . And truely , in those things ( which are in plaine , and evident ) I should not answer thee : But least that then should be wise in thy own conceit . And againe then saith , If we could but see a difference betwixt the light given by Christ as the Word , ( John 1. ) and the light given by Christ as Mediator , it might help us out of some pits . Before , thou told of distinguishing between the light of Christ in conversion , and the light of conscience : and now , betwixt the light of Christ , as the word ; and as Mediator . Now all they which know Christ , and his light wherewith he hath enlightened them , as he is the Word , and as he is the Mediator ; they will clearely , and perfectly see , that thou art in the pit ( with thy distinctions ) when as we are not in it ( for want of them . ) Where did the Apostles distinguish Christs light , as he is the Word ? and his light as Mediator ? or , how many lights did they declare that Christ had , that those that know but one light of Christ in its severall measures , and appearances of it , may know more lights ? Was there other , and severall distinct lights of Christ to every severall distinct name which was put upon him , and so as many severall lights , as severall names ? And where doth the Scripture speak of a naturall light , or of the light of a naturall Conscience , if it doth ; declare it ? or else learne to speake in the Forme of sound words , according to the Scriptures : For we knew , that as Christ is one , so is his light , and so is his life , and so is his power , and the way to the Father ; but in the world ( among the Hirelings ) as there is gods many , and lords many , so they make many lights ; but to us there is but one God , even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ , and one Lord Jesus , by whom are all things , and we by him ; and one light of our Lord Jesus Christ , by which all that come unto the Father are led , and guided , and by which , all that deny him to have enlightned every man that commeth into the world , and that set up any other light besides Christ to enlighten them , or leade to the Father , is condemned : And by this light are we able to see all mens foolishnesse , and ignorance , and doe see all these pits and snares into which , through their blindnesse , they are led . Hammonds sixth Ground of our Delusion is this , Pr. Our being scandalized at some loose Professors , and our not finding what we would have been at under the meanes of Grace . &c. and our desiring to live by sence , and not by faith . Ans. This is darknesse without mixture of any light in it ; And as in his Book he tells of pure darknesse , ( sure he meanes , grosse darknesse without any mixture of light ) then his sixth ground against us is it . For let all soberly consider , whether this can be a ground of our delusion , Our being scandalized at some loose Professors ? If he had said , our being scandalized by some loose Professors , the words would have had some sence in them to prove us as , we are ; but herein should we be justified ; and he that scandalizes us rather to be in the ground of delusion . For our being scandalized by loose Professors , as ●dammond and his Church ; this doth not prove us to be in delusion , but rather himselfe . And for his saying , That we not finding what we would have been at under the means of grace , that therefore we are deluded , or given up to be damned , this is to ground neither of delusion ; these thy dark soolish expresssions cannot deceive many . Therefore I shall aske thee this oneffion , that when thou Writes againe , thou may speak thy meaning , and leave those darke words which have no sence in them ; What would we have been under the means of Grace , which we could nor finde for which God hath given us up to delusion ? Or , Whether doth God give any up to delusion , for not attaining that which they cannot finde under the means of grace , when they wait for it ? And as for thy saying , that we desire to live by sence and not by faith ; that is false : for it was never in our hearts to desire it , since we knew the Truth , and means of Grace ; but by that Faith of the Sonne of God we live , which overcomes the World . Hammonds seventh and last ground of delusion against us , is , Pr. Our shaking off all the outward Ordinances of Christ , under pretence of receiving the inward Ministrations . Ans. As thou begins , so thou ends with thy Grounds against us , being all false ; for by that pretence , we never cast off any Ordinance of Christ , but by the inward Ministration of the Spirit , doe we bring sorth and fulfill the outward Ordinances ; and from the inward Ministration of the Spirit , doe we Pray and Preach , which is outward Ordinances , and alwayes give thanks for all things , and beare our Testimonies against all false wayes and worships ; and by the reall ( not pretended ) Ministration of the Spirit , doe we continue in all things whatsoever he hath commanded us , and by which we know his outward Ordinances , and his inward worship which stands in the spirit , and in the truth ; and so continue we in the Apostles Doctrine , in Fasting , in breaking Bread , and Prayer ; being by the word of his power redeemed , and set free from all the grounds of delusion , and doe witnesse the life of righteousnesse , whereby God will condemn every Tongue that riseth up in judgement against us : And now is the Lord making manifest , who it is that is in the pretences , and who is in the things it selfe ; for though such ( through fained words ) boasts of Christs righteousnesse , but deny it , and them that walke in it ; this I say unto all such , they that deny to 〈◊〉 in his righteousnesse in the World , shall never be justified by it before the Father ; therefore as yea look by , is to be justified ; so also look to walk in it , and bring it forth in the World , as your Fruits unto God . Againe Samuel Hammond brings five Arguments to demonstrate our Principles , and Doctrines to be damnable ; and its impossible for us to be saved , living and dying in them . First . Justification by Inherent Righteousnesse , a damnable Doctrine . Second . The not owning the Imputed Righteousnesse of Christ , as the matter , and formall cause of our justification . Third . To make our reconciliation to God to be wrought by our improving the light within , and the renewing of the Image of God in us . Fourth To take men off from going to the fulnes of Christ at the right hand of God for teaching , and send them to look to the light within them . Fifth . The casting off all the known Ordinances of Christ . Ans. As to all those above mentioned , we have not holden any particular of them forth , ( as our Doctrine , or Principles ) in these words , in which he hath charged them against us . But as to the first , this we hold ; that Christ is our Righteousnesse : and that we are justified freely by his Grace , through Faith that is in him , and by it is made Heires , according to the hope of Eternall life , ( Pit. 3. 7 ) and that Christ in us , is the hope of Glory ; which hath been hid from Ages and Generations , but now is made manifest ; and from that manifestation of him in us doe we witnesse him to be our Righteousnesse , Justification , and Life from the Dead . And this is our Principle , and Doctrine which to us is saving , and not damnable ; and we living and dying in this , shall never be condemned . Pr. And as to the second , where he charges us , not to own the imputed Righteousnesse of Christ as the matter and formall cause of our justification . Ans. It is a false charge against us , for we never denyed any righteousnesse of Christ imputed unto us ; neither did we ever hold forth any matter , or cause of our justification , but Christ and his Righteousnesse . But if Sam : Hammond might ( in the devised words of his own wisedome ) set downe Doctrines and Principles for us ; then our Doctrines and Principles would be damnable , and there were no possibility of salvation , living and dying in them ; and so it is easie for him to set down a forme of unsound words , and then confute them , and falsly charge them upon us ; and say , we hold damnable Doctrine ; but as we abide in him in whom we have beleeved , we shall not enter into condemnation : but every Tongue that riseth up against us , will God condemn . Pr. As to the Priests third Argument , which is , To make our reconciliation to God , to be wrought by our improving the light within , and the renewing of the Image of God in us , which ( saith he ) is a damnable Doctrine , and for proofe , instances , the Perfect Pharisee pag. 10. 11. where A. P. hath said , Christ reconciles God and Man by the renewing of the Image of God in Man . Ans. Now as to the first , we never said , that our reconciliation to God was wrought by our improving , or for our improving the light within : And as for Christ to renew the Image of God in us , that is the work that the Father hath given him to doe ; and so far as the Image of God by Christ is renewed in any , so far are they reconciled to God : and this reconciliation of the Creature to God , we never held to be , by , nor for our improving the light ; neither was it by , nor for our works of righteousnesse , but by Christ , according to the Scriptures , and the Apostles testimony , ( 2 Cor. 5 , 17. ) therefore if any man be in Christ , he is a new creature : old things are past away behold , all things are become new : And all things are of God who hath reconciled us to himselfe by Jesus Christ , and hath given to us the ministery of reconciliation . To wit , that God was in Christ , reconciling the world unto himselfe , not imputing their trespasses unto them , and hath committed unto us the Word of reconciliation , &c. now here the Apostle doth not exclude the renewing of the Image of God , nor the new creature , a● 〈◊〉 , ●nd th●se 〈◊〉 in England 〈◊〉 : For ( by their Do●●rin● ) they would have such a 〈…〉 ciliation , that they 〈◊〉 never be changed , nor renewed to God ; but the old man ( wi●h his deeds ) reconciled to God ; and would have Christs righteousnesse to be theirs , and themselves reck●ed to be Saints , while they are the servants of sin . But the Apostle saith , While they were the servants of sin they were fr●e from righteousnesse , ( Rom. 6 20. ) but ( saith he ) being mad free from sin and become servants to God you have your fruits unto hol●nesse , and the end everlasting l●fe : But this Doct●ine and Scripture of the Apostle , by the Priests is denyed , that any can be free from sin : But the Apostle twice in that Chapter tells them , that they are made free from sin ; ( as ver. 18. and ver. 22. ) and as the reconciliation to God , was wrought by the death on the Crosse , the Image of God was renewed in them ; For , saith the Apostle , Having abolish●d in his fl●sh the enmity , even the law of commandements tou●●ined is ordinances , for to make in himselfe of twaine , one new man , so maki●g peace . And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cr●sse having slaine the enmity thereby , ( Ephes. 3 15 16. ) here the renewing of the Image of God , was ●till mentioned in the work of reconciliation ; but of this , the Priests ( of this generation ) cannot endure to heare , that the Image of God should be renewed ; or , that being servants to God they are made free from sin : For where thi● Image is renewed , all their Pride and Covetousnesse , false wa●es , and worships , whereby they keep people in their sins , and from knowing the new Creature ; or , from expecting the renewing of the Image of God in them , is testified against . For the end of their Preaching and Printing , is to keep people from the Knowledge of Christ within , the light within , the word with●n , the renewing of the Image of God within , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 righteousnesse of Christ within . And it is manifest , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 know little of this within , because there is so little 〈◊〉 i● 〈◊〉 ●●●th in the world as F●uits unto God ; And 〈◊〉 God 〈◊〉 revealed th●se things to any , whereby they bring forth the Fruits of righteousnesse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( 〈◊〉 in the sight of men ) for a witnesse against them ; then they Preach , and Print against such , and charges lyes against them , ( as Hammond hath done against us ) in telling us of the works of the Law , and our own righteousnesse , and of reconciliacion , by improving the light within , which we did never make the cause of our justification , nor remission of sins ; but say , that without blood there is no remission ; and likewise , that without Christs life , and light , and the renewing of the Ima●e of God , there is no salvation , Now therefore ▪ ( that all people may be satisfied ) that we doe not hold that by any thing , that we doe ; nor for any thing that we have done are we saved , or rec●nciled to God ; but by him , ( who having made peace through the blood of hi● Crosse ) by him to reconcile all things unto himselfe ; by hi● , I say , whether they be things in Earth or things in Heaven , And we that were sometimes enemies in our minds by 〈◊〉 works yet now hath he reconciled , In the body of his flesh through death , to present us holy and unblama●le in his sight , ( 〈◊〉 1. 20 , 21. 22. ) and this is our test●mony concerning our reconc●li●●ion by Christ alone , not by any thing else , whereby all our accuse●s may be put to silence from their boasting against us , without a ground . Hammonds fourth Argument to prove ou● Doctrine damnable is ; Pr. That we take men off from going to the fulnesse of Christ as the right hand of God for teaching , and send them to looke to the light within them . Ans. Our turning people to the light within them doth not take them off from the fulnesse of Christ , nor his teachings ; for the light within , is a measure of his fulnesse ; by it he teaches , and people must be brought to his light 〈◊〉 in , before ever they witnesse his teachings , or fulnesse ; and by his light within , they see him at the right hand of God ; and never till they he turned to the light within , doe they perceive his fulnesse , nor his glory ; and so , that this is a weak Argument against us , to prove our Doctrine damnable ; but rather that Doctrine is damnable , which keeps people from the light within , and so from the teachings of Christ , and from his fulnesse , and from seeing him at the right hand of the Majesty on high ; and all that know Christ in any measure of his light , or have received of his fulnesse , will be a witnesse against thee in this thy Argument , to say , that turning people to the light within , is to take them off from Christs fulnesse : which is just the contrary ; to bring men to it . Hammonds last Argument to prove our Doctrine damnable , is ; Pr. The casting off of all the known Ordinances of Christ . A●s . This was thy seventh ground of delusion against us ; and now it thy last Argument of our damnable Doctrine ; and if thou will but set thy seven grounds , and five Arguments over again , they will be foure and twenty , and so thou may inlarge thy Volume , by mentioning one thing often over . But in answer to thee , in stead of casting off all , we own all the known Ordinances of Jesus Christ . And again thou sayst , there are other dangerous Principles that thou might mention ; as , that of Perfection , by improving the light within . Ans. We never held perfection neither by , nor for improving the light within ; and if there were any other things thou had against us , we doe not question but thou would bring them forth : But if that was a dangerous Principle , to Preach Perfection , then Christ was a dangerous man to be either beleeved , or followed ; For he said , Be ye perfect , as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect . And be ye holy , as I am holy . And some said , that he was a good man ; but there was some , ( that was of Hammonds spirit in those dayes ) and said , that he deceived the people ; and said , that those that followed him then , was accursed : and they had as good grounds to prove them accursed that followed him then , as Hammond hath to prove us in delusion that follows him now : For in those dayes they might have said against them that followed Christ , that they Preached the light within , and turned people to the light within , and Christ within , ( Col. 1. 27. ) and told of having the righteousnesse of the Law fulfilled in them , and of the word of Faith in their hearts , to obey it , and doe ●it , ( Rom. 10 ) and as Christ suffered the contradiction of sinners then , so must we doe now : And the Apostle Paul ▪ he Preached Wisedom among those that was perfect ; and let as many as be perfect , be thus minded : and John said , He that is borne of God doth not commit sin : neither can he sin , because the seed of God remaines in him , ( 1 John 3. 9. ) and he that commits sin is of the Devill , and hath not seen God , neither known him ; and in this the children of God is manifest , and the children of the Devill ; whosoever doth not righteousnesse , is not of God , neither he that loveth not his brother : but he that doth righteousnesse , is righteous , even as he is righteous . Now by Hammonds spirit , the Apostles Doctrine , and Writings , is dangerous Principles ; and if they were in their righteous lives , and conversations upon the Earth , they would be scorned and reproached , as they were then ; and their Writings would be called Pamphlets ; but in that life which they were in , doe we reigne over all our Enemies , shewing love to them that shew cruelty to us ; and doing good to them , that despighfully use us ; and Pray , that God may forgive them that have falsly accused us , for they know not what they doe . Pr. Againe , Samuel Hammond , ( in the 11. page of thy Book ) thou takes the Lord to witnesse , that thou hast not any desire to passe sentence upon us . Ans. Dost thou think that all people is blind , or that God will be a witnesse to thy lyes ? God is righteous , and true , and so is all that he bears witnesse unto . Hast thou not ( in these twelve particulars before mentioned ) given sentence upon us to be in thē grounds of delusion , and damnable Principles and Doctrines ? And hast thou not given sentence upon us , to be one with the Soc●●ian , and with the Papist , pag. 4. and pag. 〈◊〉 . Oh! what a confusion is here ? what hast thou been doing in thy Book , to prove our House Built upon the Sand ; and saith , 〈◊〉 there is no possibility of salvation for 〈◊〉 , living and dying in these Principles ? And yet takes God to witnesse , that thou hast not any desire to passe senience against us : Hast thou done all this against thy desire ? or dost thou find God a witnesse , against thy passing sentence upon us ? Thou sayes , that it hath been upon thy thoughts severall years , ( in the same page ) that a man living and dying in our Principles , cannot be saved ; and this is passing sentence upon us . Was it so long upon thy thoughts ? and never in thy desires ? Here thou would seem to speak Mysteries to people ; but the ground of thy Mystery is easily seen to be thy lying imaginations , whereby , when thou hast done evill , would excuse thy selfe by pleading ignorance ; but in this , God will witnesse against thee , ( not for thee . ) Now having cleared our Principles and Doctrines from the guilt of all thy grounds of delusion , and Arguments of 〈◊〉 Doctrines against us ; and thy grounds in themselves to be 〈◊〉 . I shall speak something as to thy words , in 〈◊〉 to G. W. of those things of which thou hast accused him falsly art thou guilty , viz. of rayling words and passionate 〈◊〉 ; calling his words of truth to thee a Dung ▪ hill , and full of ●itter rayling and that his Pen and Spirit is dipt in the gall of 〈◊〉 ; and such like words : and yet saith , that it was never 〈◊〉 thy desires to passe sentence upon us : but thy Tongue has proved that the thought of thy heart hath deceived thee as it is made manifest . And as to thy words , That it hath been upon thy thought many years , that the Quakers living and dying in 〈…〉 e Principles , cannot be saved . G. W. A●s ▪ is , That it ap 〈…〉 rs then , that thou hast spoken from thy thoughts , and not from the Lord . Then thou replyes . That many pretious truths hath been on the thoughts of the Saints ; and instances David , 1 Chr. ●9 . 18. and 2 Cor. 9. 5. whereas David desired , that the Mercies and Deliverances , Judgements , Testimonies and Sta●●res , might be kept upon the thoughts of his Heart for ever ; and this was his Prayer . And Paul thought it necessary to exhort the Brothren . But what is these proofes to thee , which hath had ●al●e a 〈…〉 ions upon thy thought severall years and now speaks them forth ; so that his words are true to the● , that it appears thou speaks from thy thoughts , and not from the Lord ; But he doth not say , That never any truth was in the Saints thoughts , as thou would make people beleeve ; and many may witnesse to the truth of his words , that it appears thou speaks not from the Lord , but from thy thoughts and imaginations . And it is manifest further , that thou knows not thy own thoughts , nor the councell of thy own heart ; for if thou did , thou would not have said , that it hath been so many years in thy thoughts , and now speak it forth : And ( yet ) say , It was not in thy desire to passe sentence upon us . But we see , that the deepest of thy thoughts , and thy knowledge , is covered with darknesse . And as for thy saying , That God said that he would call for damnation at the Watch-mans hand , ( Ezek. 33. 6 ) this is a charging of God foolishly ; for he never said it , neither called for it ; and all thy meanings to it hath but led thee into snares , and pits , which thou cannot get out of , as all that walk in the light , sees . Againe , ( in thy 13. and 14. pages ) Thou speaks against the light which Christ hath enlightned every man withall that comes into the world ; and calls it , the reliques of the light of the first Creation ; and no other but the light of a naturall conscience , and that a blurred one too . Oh! what scornfull and despightfull words is here against Christ , and his light , as reliques of the old creation , naturall , and blurred ? Is not these names more proper to be given to darknesse , then to light ? Where didst thou learne those names ? ( not in the Scripture , nor from any Minister of Christ ) How is the Scripture thy Rule which thou hast so long prated upon ? For here it is manifest to all ( that are not wilfully blind ) that thou hast lost the forme of sound words , and ar● devising evill names to give to the light , whereby to keep people ( in their sins ) from Christ . But I pray God to convince thee by the light of his Sonne of all the hard speeches that thou ( ungodly sinner ) hast spoken against him . Pr. Againe , ( thou sayest ) for that saying , that Christ is a light 〈◊〉 enlighten the Gentiles , ( Isay 49. 6. Acts 13. 47. ) it is mean● of a new Gospel light , given forth in conversi●● , Page 13. Ans. Where had thou this expression ? Is there a New , and an Old Gospel , and to either of them a severall light ? The Apostle Preached that Christ which did enlighten the Gentiles ( Acts 13. 47. ) and I know no other Gospel , but that which he Preached ; but if any Preach another , ( either New or Old ) let him be accursed , And againe ( in the same 13. page ) thou sayst , that beleeving in a ●r●ated light , that 's blasphemy . And yet in the same page , saith , that till Christ creat● a second Covenant-light , the light of Faith , upon the account of the Covenant of Grace , they cannot follow Christ . Here is manifest confusion and blindnesse heaped up together , manifest to all men : Is the second Covenant-light , the light of Faith , a created light ? Is not Christ the second Covenant ? And is his light created , as thou hast affirmed ? And is it blasphemy to beleeve in a created light ? then it is blasphemy to beleeve in the light of Christ . Now this of thin● , will appear , and be manifest unto all ( that have any understanding ) to be damnable Doctrine ; and for thee , it is impossible to be saved , living and dying in it : so that which thou hast prepared for another , ( Esther 5. 14. chap. 〈◊〉 . 10. ) comes upon thy selfe . Againe , as to the Scripture , ( Iohn 12. 46. ) where Christ saith , I am come a light into the World , &c. thou sayes , that cannot be meant a created light , for then a man were to follow his own light , &c. and thy words following , saith , Christ must create a second Covenant-light , the light of Faith : and here thou hast so ensuared thy selfe in the pi● of ignorance , and darknesse , that untill Gods righteous judgements come upon thee , and 〈◊〉 that which hath spoken it , thou will never be free , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for great is thy s●ares , and bonds of iniquity , and they are dayly made stronger by thy devising of cor 〈…〉 pt and evill words , to speake against the light : but this 〈◊〉 which thou hast so d●spightfully spoke● against , must thou love , and obey , before ever thou come out of the snares of Satan , and before thou profit the people by thy Teaching ; and these things are now layd plain before thee , that thou mayest see thy owne wayes and words , and that thou art guilty of that thy selfe , whereof thou hast accused another ; and this is written , that thou ma 〈…〉 ●om● to repentance , and the acknowledgement of the Truth , that thou mayest be saved . Againe , thou hast charged a false thing against G. W. which he never spoke , nor wrote , which is this , That doing justice , or our fulfilling of the Law , is 〈◊〉 justification ; and then call● 〈◊〉 ▪ a damnable opinion : If it be a damnable opinion , it is thy own , not his ! For his words are these , For it is the d●ers of the Law , for justice ) that God justifies , pag. 〈◊〉 . according to ▪ ( Rom ▪ 2. 13 ) but in this ( Sam. Hemmond ) th●n hast shamed thy selfe ; for there is many in Newcastle , that had not thought that thou had been so impudently wicked , as wilfully , and knowingly ( for thy own wicked ends ) to charge those words upon others , which they never spoke , ( but i● thy own ) and then call it , a damnable Principle . But the Lord hath made thee manifest , that thou may no more deceive the Nations . Pr. Againe thou saith , That pure darkenesse 〈◊〉 manage justice . Ans. Thou sure means grosse darknesse without any mig 〈…〉 of light : And thou may , from such Doctrines as these , 〈◊〉 of a New Gospel , ( as thou said before ) and new expressions ; for there is no such words mentioned in the Scriptures of the Prophets and Apostles : but to prove this thy expression of pure darkenesse to manage justice ; thou saith , That a Star man enlighten in the night ; but its the Sunn that makes day . Ans. A Starre is not pure darknesse , for there is some light ; and according to the measure of its brightnesse , t is pure light ; so thou must have another proofe then that ; and 〈◊〉 is more properly called darkenesse , when there is not so much as the light of a Starre . Another proofe is , thou sayst , Godly Magistrates have two-lights , and so two eyes ; that is , the light of Conscience ( which is , as thou saith , pure darkenesse ; ) and the light of Faith ( which I say , is pure light . ) Ans. These two Eyes , are one contrary to the other : For light hath no fellowship with darknesse . And how can any Magistrate in this state manage justice ; one of his Eyes ( the evill eye ) must be put out , if ever he manage justice well ; for the one Eye will offend the other . And if thine Eye offend thee , plucke it out , ( as Christ said ) it is better to ( doe justice , and ) enter into the Kingdome with one Eye , then having two , to be cast into Hest fire . And this I am sure that neither Magistrate , nor any other , can enter into the Kingdome , while darknesse is his Eye : For if the Eye be evill , the whole body is full of darknesse , ( as Christ said , Mat. 6. 23. ) But if any judge for God , or doe justice for him , his Eye must be single , that his whole body may be full of light , ( and fulfill Christs words , ) Mat. 6. 22. But we have learned better Doctrine , then to take Hammonds two Eyes for a perfect sight . And it was this Eye in him ( which is grosse darknesse ) with which he hath Read over our Writings , and so could not ( see to ) speak our own words again , because darknesse had blinded his Eye . And so all people may now see , what light this man hath , to Preach , and Print withall , or to prove damnable Doctrines by : But good is the Word of the Lord , which said , That their folly should be made manifest unto all men , as it now is in measure , and will be fulfilled . Pr. Againe , thy spirit is up against the light , and in page 18. thou sayst , what ever a man may call the light within him , if he call it , the life of Christ in him ; yet if he live upon it as his righteousnesse for justification , it is a plaine Covenant of Works . Ans. Here thou sets thy selfe against the light , and truth it selfe , in open and wilfull rebellion ; but it is good for others , ( who have formerly looked upon thee , to be a man indewed with Wisedome , and Knowledge of the Scriptures , ( and now see thee so manifestly ) to declare against what they speake : ) for the Scriptures testifie of Christ ; and saith , that in him is life , and the life is the light of men : and his life is manifest in the mortall bodies ; and his life they live upon , and eat his flesh , and drinke his blood , or else they had no life in them ; and living in his life , we are the righteousnesse of God in him ; and in him are all the seed of Israel justified , and shall glory . And thou that saith , to live upon the life of Christ , is but a plaine Covenant of Works , that 's blasphemy , and error ! and the Lord hath made thee manifest . Pr. Another false Doctrine hath Hammond affirmed , That there are thousands in their state of darknesse , that cannot follow Christ , for want of light , pag. 13. Ans. Then , for what are they condemned ? Whether are they condemned , because they cannot beleeve ? or because they doe not beleeve on him whom the Father hath sent ? And whether are they condemned , because they cannot follow Christ ? or because they doe not follow him ? Or , whether is it for want of light ? or for want of obedience to the light , that men is condemned ? And is it not , because they love the darkenesse , rather then light , when the light is come into the world ? Is this the condemnation , that the light is not come into the world , nor given to men ? or rather , is not this the condemnation , that light is come into the World , and given unto men , that every man in him might beleeve ? Their loving the darknesse , rather then the light , when come , and given ; Is not this the cause of condemnation ? If so ; then Hammonds Doctrine to thousands , is false . Againe , thou objects against G. Whitheads words , because he saith , that the light is greater then the conscience ; which is true . Then thou sayst , How is it that those Saints in New-England never soe the least breaking forth of it in the Indians ? and in Old-England hundreds manifest no other light , but that of a naturall conscience , and not much of that neither . Ans. The Indians in New-England , doe manifest more of the true light of Christ in their Words , and Actions , and Righteous Dealings , then many of those thou calls saints there , and it doth break forth to the sight of these that are among them : and these hundreds i●Old-England , that doe not manifest much of any light ; Is there ●●ne , because they they doe not manifest it ? Doth not the true light of Christ enlighten people , because they doe not manifest it to others ? that is thy ignorance of the light ; For they that manifest to others the true light , by their obedience to it , they shew that they have received Christ the true light ; and they that doe not manifest it to others , they shew that they reject Christ , who is the true light , and is disobedient to the light wherewith he hath enlightned them : and so ( by that which ap 〈…〉 ) it is manifest , whether they love or hate , obey or 〈◊〉 the light which Christ hath enlightened them with 〈…〉 ; and so the truth of what we have declared concer 〈…〉 the light , will stand for a true testimony to the Lord thro 〈…〉 ●ut all generations . Now is the day of Gods power , where●● his light is broken forth , and ●an understanding is begotten in people , whereby they can see when the scorner 〈◊〉 his ignorance . Thou challenges to shew Scripture , that bids you look to ●●e light within you . I have shewed thee many Scriptures 〈◊〉 speaks of the light within , and Christ within ; and it is the light of Christ that thou so much hates , and us , for his sake : 〈◊〉 if we had still continued in darknesse , and ignorance 〈◊〉 thee , then we should have been loved by thee , for the World loves its own ; but because we walk in the light , and bears testimony against the darknesse , and works of unrighteousnesse ; therefore dost thou hate us , and speak all manner of evill against us . Now , whereas in many places of thy Book , thy scorne , and envy , and false accusations of G. W. is ●o manifest , I shall let that passe , and the truth of his words stand over thee for ever ; and when thou art manifestly declared to have spoken false things against us , which thou canst not prove ; as that in page 18. A man improving 〈◊〉 naturall conscience , is his growing up into perfection ; Now when thou art found false in that , and that we never said so ; then thou sayst , we 〈◊〉 so ; and so thou makes thy meaning the judge both of the Scriptures , and of our 〈◊〉 ; but God will judge and condemn thy false meanings . Again , thou being asked , what it was that was imputed unto Abraham for righteousnesse ? thy answer is , It was the promised Seed , which is Christ . Here thou erres , not knowing the Scripture ; as , ( ●amos 2. 23. ) Abraham beleeved God , and it was imputed unto him for righteousnesse ; his Faith was accounted unto him for righteousnesse : but Faith is not called , the promised Seed nor Christ . And for thy saying , If a men were never so godly , and have nothing but his tears to pleade for him , he must goe to Hell . This is foolish ignoranc● the godly never went to Hell ; but it is like ( thou meant , if he seemed to be godly , but was not ; for we must 〈◊〉 have meanings to thy words , which is contrary to thy words , or else the substance of thy whole Volume will prove false : But it is the day of the discovery of thy nakednesse . Again , ( in page 20. ) when thou art confuted about Baptisme and the Lords Supper ; thou sayst , thou meant standing Ordinances , and that thou meant , that which the Pedobaptists , and 〈◊〉 baptists use : and so in every particular thou means , anot●●● thing then thou speaks . And in page 22. when thou 〈◊〉 that trying all things cost Solomon a sad Apostacy ; thou meant he fell into Apostacy , but both thy former words , and letter meaning , is false . Pr. Then thou would bring the Apostle for a cloake 〈◊〉 thy covetousnesse , and saith , thou hast warrant and example of the Apostle for receiving Wages . Ans. Nay , thou hast neither warrant , nor example from him ; For he first Planted a Vineyard , before he Eate of the Fruit ; And he first did sow spirituall things , before he di● eate of the carnall things . And he said , Have we not power to eate , and power to drinke ; But he did not say , Have we no power to take tythes , as thou art pleading for a power to take Tythes ; and so he is no example , nor warrant for thee , 〈◊〉 he said , that the Priest-hood was changed , and that the 〈◊〉 was changed , by which Tythes were lawfull . And 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 no example from Paul , to be so many yeares at New-easi le , and have yearely Wages above 100 livre. a yeare , and yet not profit the people at all , but rather harden their hearts against the truth , and beget envy and wrath in them against the appearance of Christ in any ; so thou hast no warrant nor example from the Apostle for these things ; therefore make them no more a cloake for thy covetousnesse . Pr. Againe ( thou brings Paul ) that for the greatnesse of his Wages , the Primitive Saints layd downe their Estates at the Apostles feet . Ans. But thou , and thy brethren , may long Preach , before the people lay down their Estates at your feet ; for if they did , you would spend it upon your lust , and pride ; for your Gospel doth not open the hearts of people ; neither can they account you worthy to partake of their carnall things , because they receive no spirituall things from you , as the Saints did from the Apostles . For that which he had received of the Lord , did he deliver unto them . But thy brethren , and labourers in the vineyard with thee , Henry Leavers , Richard Franklings , and Iosias Dockerey affirmed ( upon the 21. day of the seventh Moneth ) at Branspith ▪ castle , that they have the Scriptures , and their Gospel , not from God , but from men : And to prove it , said , that Timothy received the Gospel not from God , but from man , ( viz. ) from Paul . Therefore , how can people lay down their Estates at your feet , which doe but deliver unto them a Gospel received from Man ? For they can receive it from man , or have it from the Printer , for lesse money then they give you yearely for Wages : And they need not give every yeare the tenth part of their increase , for the Scripture and Gospel from man ; for they may have it for five shillings , or lesse , which will serve for many yeares . Now the Apostle , he was worthy , and it was the least ( if when he had Ministered unto them spirituall things ) that he did eate and drink of their carnall things ; for the Gospel which he Preached , he received it not of Man , neither was he taught it ; but by the Revelation of Jesus Christ ; and so the people under his Ministery , did not spend their money for that which was not Bread , nor their labour for that which did not satisfie , as they doe under your Ministery ; and therefore you must either make bargaines before-hand for your Wages ; or get a Law to compell them to pay Tythes , as the complaint of many of your Priests is in this Nation , that if it were left to the freedom of people , they might starve , the hearts of people is so hard . What Gospel have you been Preaching all this while , that peoples hearts is hard yet ? and that you dare not trust your Gospel , nor your Church for food and rayment ; you are ashamed to all profession of godlinesse . Did ever the Ministers of the Gospel of Christ starve for want of food and rayment , where they had gathered Churches ? Or for Wages , did they either goe to Law , or take mens goods by violence , as the Priests in England doe ? but while they have received no Gospel from God , but from man ; how should it be otherwise ? so from man you have received the Gospel , and from man you have received a Law to take tythes ; and so its another Gospel then Paul Preached ; For he received it not from man , neither was he taught it by man ; but from God , by the Revelation of Jesus Christ ; but now you can no longer be hid , but are made to consesse , to the glory of God , the truth against your selves , that people may no more receive you , as sent of God , nor to have a Message from God , but from men , according to your consession ; and your Gospel must needs be chargeable , and burthensome to people , contrary to that which the Apostle Preached . Pr. In page 21. thou accuseth G. W. to be ignorant of the literall Knowledge of the Scriptures ; because he asks them , Where the Levites , had Houses , and Lands , and Tythes appointed of God for their service . And thou brings these Scriptures , Lev. 25. 32. and Numb. 35. 3. where it mentions , what Cities they shall have to dwell in , &c. and brings Deut. 27. 21. which speaks nothing of the Priests Tythes , Houses , nor Lands , but of another thing , which is nothing to what thou would prove . Ans. Here thou art Ignorant of the literall Knowledge of the Scriptures ; we never denyed that they had Houses , and Cities to dwell in : And what i● they had five and forty Cities with their Suburbs ? what is this to prove , that they had Houses , and Lands and Tythes for their s●rvice , appointed of God ? Hast thou not read in Numb. 18. 20. where the Lord spoke unto Aaron , saying thou shalt have no Inheritance in their Land , neither shalt thou have any part among them ; I am thy part , and thine Inheri●ance among the Children of Israel ? Ver. 21. And behold I have g●ven of Levy all the tenth in Israel , for an Inheritance , for their service which they serve , even the service of the Tabernacle of the Congregation . And hast thou not read , Deut. 10. 9. Wherefore Levy hath no part nor Inheritance among their brethren ; the Lord is his Inheritance , as the Lord God promised him ? &c. And hast thou not read , Deut. 18. 1. 2. The Priests , the Levites , and all the Tribe of Leui , shall have no p●rt nor Inheritance with Israel : they shall eat the Offerings of the Lord made by fire , and his Inheritance . Therefore shall they have no Inheritance among their Brethren , the Lord is their Inheritance , as the Lord hath said ? &c. And hast thou not read , Joshua 13. 14. Onely unto the Tribe of Levy he gave none Inheritance , the sacrifice of the Lord God of Israel made by fire , was their Inheritance as the Lord hath said ? And hast thou not read , Ezek. 44 28. I am their Inheritance ( saith the Lord ) and ye shall give them no possession in Israel , I am their possession ? Now this was their Inheritance , and Possession ; and that which they had for their service , was the Tythe ; and out of that , all the Widowes , Strangers , and Fatherlesse , was to come to the Priests Gate , and be satisfied , that there should not be a begger in Israel . But though the Priests in England have the Tythes ; yet there are Widowes , Strangers , and Fatherlesse , that wants , and many beggers in England ; and by their covetousnesse is many oppressed , and their goods taken from them , ( whereby they are brought to suffer want ) but the Lord hath opened the bowels of compassion in some , to pitty and supply those , which the Priests ( ●er their cov●tous ends ) make merchandise of . Now this I have declared , that all such may see themselves , if so be that God at any time will give them repentance , that they may be saved . Another snare hath Sam : Hammond runne himselfe into , by perverting the Apostles words , when he bids them , Prove all things , and hold fast that which is good ; these words Sam. Hammond limits to this ; that they must try what is according to the mind of Christ , and hold that . Ans. That is not all things , but one thing ; but they were to try all things what was according to the mind of Christ , and what was not ; and try the spirits , whether they be of God : and when they had tryed what was according to the mind of Christ , and what was not : and what spirit was of God , and what was not : then they were to hold fast that which was good . But S. H saith , must they try sinne ? and must they goe heare the Papists to try their Doctrine ? Ans. Thou art very blind and dark in thy understanding ; Is there no trying of sinne , but by entering into the experimentall practice of it ? Ans. Yes , The Lord ha●h given us of his spirit , by which we are able to try your Ministery , your Wages , your Covetousnesse , and your cruelty and slandering of the Innocent , and yet not enter into any of your practises : and as we try you , so we doe the Papists likewise , not from the Orthodox writers ( as thou calls them ) but by the spirit of the living God . And Paul did not bid the Thessalonians goe to some Orthodox Writers , to try either Spirit , or Doctrines by their Books . But thy end in speaking these words , is . That people should not heare us declare the Truth , lest they should be converted to God , and brought off all false wayes and worships , which they have long been kept under , by thy perverting of the Scripture to thy own end : And if they must goe to thy Books , ( as Orthodox to try us by ) there they may find thee speaking evill of us without a cause , and laying open thy own nakednesse and ignorance of the things of God : But if people once come to know the measure of Gods spirit , and with that try , and prove , they will see tha● they have been alwayes learning , but was never able to know the truth from any of your Teachings . Againe , thou goes to excuse the Magistrates of New-castle in their cruelty , and hayling of the peaceable people of the Lord out of d●res ; and saith , that it is their Zeale and Glory : ( but Persecution was ever blind , and that Zeale which sto●d in it . ) And further thou saith that they know no Law that tolerates their Meetings . Answer . What! wilt thou shame the Magistrates of New-castle before all people ? What! ar● they ignorant of the Law of the Nation , and of the Instru 〈…〉 of Goverment ? and by this account thou would ren●er ●hem uncapable of doing justice in New-castle ; or of executing their place of trust wherein they are put to doe justice , and performe the righteousnesse of the Law ; But when they truely come to see thee , and thy words ; they will have no great incouragement to give thee so great Wages for upbraiding them ( with their ignorance ) of the Laws of the Nation . Pr. Againe , thou empties the Venome of thy heart , by false accusing ( not onely the living , but the dead ) in saying , that William Cotesworth of Shields , hyred a House in New-castle ; but before that he could enjoy it , the Lord stroke him with madnesse . Ans. This is false , for he did enjoy the House he hyred , and others , with him , did meet peaceably in it , and enjoy the Lords presence , and teaching , before the Lords stroke ( as thou calls it ; ) but doe not thou accuse the Lords stroke , neither doe thou charge God with any indignation against him : For when the Lord makes inquisition for the blood of his Saints , thou wilt not be cleare in this , in saying , the Lord did witnesse against him , or us , in that particular . Pr. Againe , thou mentions a Shoomaker in New castle , which , thou saith , was one of us , and came , and rayled against thee , and was presently struke mad . Ans. Here thou would make people beleeve wonders : was he not mad before he rayled against thee ? And that Shoomaker was never any of us , ( nor owned of us ever to be in the truth ; ) and he was mad and distracted before ever be saw us , or we him : But he that is in the gall of bitternesse , must vent it out : But the Lord doth keep us clear from the blood of all men , and that truth which we are witnesses of , shall stand for ever over all our Accusers , who are filling up the measure of their iniquities , by speaking all manner of evill against us : as Christ said they should doe : But in this we rejoyce , When men speake all manner of evill against us falsly for his name sake , for great is our reward in Heaven , for even so persecuted they the prophets that went before us : and this is that reproach which for his sake we must beare , as he hath left us an example ; for the servant is not greater then his Lord . Pr. The last thing in this Book , is a story which thou tells to thy own shame , Of thy hyring a man ( the Keeper of the Mute-hall ) to betray the truth , and to breake his promise , as the Chiefe Priests ●yred Judas to betray Christ ; they gave him thirty pieces of silver , to betray the just ; and thou gave this man thirty pence to break his Word and promise , which he had made to the servants of the Lord , and in love to the truth , And thou saith , thou gave it him to prevent the Quakers temptings , Ans. Oh! foolish man , thou makes it worse and worse ; Is money a means to keep men from temptation ? Didst thou not rather with the thirty pence , tempt him to be unfathfull to the Lord , and to break his promise ? And as without money , Judas would hardly have been tempted to have betrayed Christ ; neither ( as thou supposeth ) would this man to have broke his promise , and to resist the truth ; For thou saith , thou considering that he might murmurre at your hindering of his gaine ; therefore you gave it him : so then , ( it seems ) it was not any convincement from your Doctrine , nor any faith that he had in you , that you were of God , and we not ; but by tempting him with words , and getting him into a ●●avish feare , and then giving him money ; which if once the witnesse of God arise in him , and he see the guilt of his treachery , by your tempting words and money ; he may come to give you your money againe , and tell you , that the cu●se of God was in it , and that by that thirty p●●c● , he did sell the truth , and bought it not : But glory , and everlasting prayses be to the Lord for ever , that dayly brings your hidden things of darknesse , to light , and makes manifest the counsells of your hearts , whereby all your temptings with money and words , is discovered , and that is but carnall weapons to defend your selves withall , and with that you cannot keep the truth ●ut of New-castle ; but God hath a seed which he wild gather from amongst you , which cannot be tempted , neither with your words , nor your money ; for you want the sword of the Spirit , which is the Word of God ; so you must make use of carnall weapons , ( money , and flattering words ) to keep people in the wayes of sinne , and death , telling them , that the Lord is amongst you , and that no evill will come upon them , speaking peace to them that live in iniquiry , as the false Prophets did , ( Mal. 3 15. ) and ye have wearied the Lord with your words , ( which have been without spirit and life ) Mal. 2. 17. This is given forth to stop the ignorance of foolish men , and that none may glory in their shame , as Samuel H●mmond hath done of his Book , in his Letter to A. P. wherein he desires him not to be offended with the seeming harshnesse of the Assertions , and saith , that he hath written nothing but truth , and the mind of Christ , &c. but what is here declared , it is manifest to all that desire to know truth from deceipt , that he hath travelled in iniquity , and brought forth lyes , and wearied himselfe for very vanity , ( Hab. 2. 13. ) and though his Aspersions is come forth in harshnesse against us , yet we shall render him truth for lyes , and love for harshnesse , as Christ hath taught us , and so heap coales of fire upon his Head . NOw there remaines some-thing , that people may take notice of , which is the Fundamentall Principles , or Doctrine of that Priest-hood ; there being severall of their Brethren of that Priest hood met together in a dispute with some of us in Branspith-castle upon the 21. day of the seventh Moneth , affirmed as followeth . Josias Dockerey affirmed , and the rest assented , 1. That they have the Scriptures , and their Gospel not from God , but from Men . 2. That there is no knowledge of the Spirit , without the Scriptures . 3. That immediate Revelation or Inspiration , is not to be expected , nor looked for in these dayes , and that to expect it is Diabolicall , ( or Devilish . ) 4. And that that which is contained ( or Written ) in this very Volume ( laying his Hand upon the Bible ) and that which appears visibly to h●s externall sences , is the Gospel . 5. That the flesh of Christ is not in them . 6. That Christ had , and hath a naturall carnall Body , and is in Heaven with a naturall carnall body ; and hath an humane carnall fleshly Body joyned to his Divinity , and is in Heaven with it . 7. That Timothy received not this Gospel from God , but from man , ( viz. ) from Paul . Rich. Frankling affirmed , 8. That Grace could not be conveyed to any man from the Lord , without the ordinary outward means of Preaching 9. That the light spoken of , in John 1. which enlightens every man , &c. is not sufficient to leade up to Christ . Hen. Leaver . 10 That they knew no such thing as Prophesie by immediate I●spiration , or Revelation , in these dayes . These things are their Principles , and Doctrines , which they Preach to people to beleeve , and is but their own Tradition , contrary to the Principles of the Doctrine of Ch 〈…〉 and the Testimony of Scriptures . Ans. Now as to the first , if not from God , but from man they have received their Gospel , then it is not that which the Apostle Preached , but another ; And , saith the Apostle , though we , or an Angell from Heaven , Preach any other Gospel unto you , then that which we have Preached unto you , let him be accursed , ( Gal. 1. 8. ) For ( saith he , in the 12. verse ) I neither receiued it of man , neither was I taught it , but by the Revelation of Jesus Christ , so no other Gospel received in any other way , is to be received , or beleeved ; for the Gospel is the power of God , as ( Rom. 1. 16. ) I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ , for it is the power of God to salvation , to every one that beleeveth , &c. Now , to say tha● they receive the power of God from man , not from God is ignorance and error ; and to say that the Letter is the Gospel , is as great ignorance and error ; and that Gospel 〈◊〉 accursed ( and he that Preaches it ) which is not received from God . Now as to the second : Pr. That there is no knowledge of the Spirit without the Scriptures : Ans. If they had said , that there had been no knowledge of Scriptures without the Spirit , then they had spoken the truth , whereas now they have spoken the plaine contrary ; for the Spirit gives the Knowledge of the Scriptures ; but the Scriptures gives not the Knowledge of the Spirit : and the Apostle was of another judgement and Principle , for , saith he , the letter killeth , but the spirit giveth life ; and it is the spirit that quickneth , ( John 6. 63. ) And John said , they knew that they dwelt in God , and he in them , because he had given them of his spirit , ( 1 John . 4. 13. ) And Paul was an able Minister of the Testament , not of the letter , but of the spirit , for the letter killeth , but the spirit giveth life , ( 2 Cor. 3. 6. ) now those before mentioned , hath manifested , that they are Ministers of the letter , not of the spirit , and so Preaches , that the letter must give the Knowledge of the spirit , when as the true Ministers said , That it was the spirit that gave the Knowledge of God , and of the Scriptures , as all that know God will confesse . Priests third Principle . That immediate Revelation , or Inspiration is not to be expected , nor looked for in these dayes , and ●hat to expect it is Diabolicall , ( or Divelish . ) Ans. Then there is no Knowledge of the Father to be expected , nor looked for in these dayes , and to expect the Knowledge of God to be revealed is Diabolicall ; but this is contrary to Christs words ; for saith Christ , Mat. 11. ●7 . No man knoweth the Sonne , but the Father ; neither knoweth any man the Father , but the Sonne , and he to whom the Sonne will reveale him ▪ and they that would not have us to expect to have the Father revealed unto us by the Sonne , this i● a damnable Doctrine , and we cannot beleeve them ; For revealed things belong to us , as the Apostle said ; and it pleaseth the Father to reveale his Sonne in us ; and it pleaseth the Sonne to reveale the Father to us ; and by the Sonne we know the Father ; and the Scripture testifies of those things , but doth not reveale those things unto any . And they are they which testifies of me , saith Christ , Iohn . 5. 39. Priests fourth Principle . That that which is contained ( or Written ) in the Bible , which appears visibly to the externall sences , is the Gospel . Ans. Nay ; For Christ , the power of God , who is the riches of the glory of this Mistery , which was hid from Ages and Generations , which was Christ in them the hope of glory ; is the Gospel which the Apostles Preached , ( Col. 1. 26. 27. 28. ) And the Apostle said , If our Gospel be hid , it is hid to those that are lost , whom the god of the world hath blinded their minds , lest the light of the glorious Gospel of Christ , which is the Image of God , should shine in their hearts , ( 2 Cor. 4. 3. 4. ) Now the Gospel which was the Mistery was hid to the unbeleevers ; but the unb●l●●v●rs can see the Bible with their exter●all Eye ; and heare it with their exte●nall Ea●e ; and yet the Gospel hid unto them : so that is not the Gospel which the naturall man , with his naturall , carnall , externall sences 〈◊〉 s●e , or heare , ( and so these Principles is false ) and contrary to the Scriptures which hold such things . Priests fifth Principle . That the Flesh of Christ is not in them . Ans. Then wh●● is that flesh which Christ saith , Except ye eate my flesh , and drinke my blood , ye have no lefe in you ? ( John 6. 53. ) And whosoever eateth my flesh , and drinketh my blood , hath eternall life , and I will rayse him up at the last day . For my flesh is meat indeed , and my blood is drink indeed . He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood , dwelleth in me , and I in him . As the living Father hath sent me , and I live by the Father : so he that eateth me , even he shall live by me , ( John 6. 54. 45. 56. 57. ) Here you have made it manifest , that the flesh of Christ you know not ; you are not flesh of his flesh , and bone of his bone as the Saints was , neither doe you dwell in him , nor he in you ; neither have ye eternall life in you , by eating of his flesh , and drinking of his blood . But we that are in Christ , and he in us ; as he liveth by the Father , so we live by him , and his flesh to us is meat indeed , and his blood is drinke indeed ; and we doe witnesse his flesh to be spirituall , and not carnall , as you say , and it feeds the spirituall man , and so have eternall life abiding in us : But you that know nothing but carnall flesh , which the carnall man feeds upon ; as Christ said to the Pharisees , so say I unto you , that you have not his Word abiding in you , ( John 5. 38 ) and ye have neither heard his voyce , nor seen his shape , ( ver. 37. ) nor known his flesh . Priests sixth Principle . That Christ had , and hath , a naturall carnall Body , and is in Heaven with a naturall carnall Body , and hath an humane carnall fleshly Body joyned to his Divinity , and is in Heaven with it . Ans. This Principle is contrary to the Testimony of Scripture ; for there is no such thing said of Christ in the Scriptures , that he is in Heaven with such a Body ▪ For the Scripture saith , there is a naturall body , and there is a spirituall Body , ( 1 Cor. 15. 44. ) And that there are celestiall bodies , and bodies terrestriall ; and the glory of the celestiall is one , and the glory of the terrestria● is another . And that it is sowne a naturall body , but is raysed a spirituall body . The 〈◊〉 Adam was of the Earth , ●a●thy the second was the ●ord from Heaven ; Howbeit , that was not first which is sp●ritu●ll , but that which is naturall , and afterward that which is spirituall . Now , we say , that Christ was raysed with a spirituall body , and is at the right hand of his Majesty on high in a spirituall glorified body , and not in a carnall fleshly naturall body : For the terrestriall body of the first Adam in the transgression , was naturall , carnall , and fleshly ; and this was the vile body , which was to be changed : And we doe beleeve that the bodies shall be changed ( from naturall , carnall , and fleshly ) and made lik● unto his glorious body , in which he is in Heaven . And this which you have held in this particular is concrary to the Scriptures , and the Apostles Doctrine ; and also contrary to the judgement of many of your own Priests and Brethren ; For they hold , that the bodies shall be made spirituall ; and that the Saints must enter into Heaven with glorified Bodies . And if the Saints must be in Heaven with spirituall glorified bodies , and Christ with a naturall , carnall , fleshly Body ? this is not proportionable , nor according to truth . Priests seventh Principle . That Timothy received not the Gospel from God , but from ●an , ( viz. ) from Paul . Ans. Then it would but have been of little effect to them that heard it from him ; but I shall bring in Paul as a witnesse against you in this ; For Paul saith to Timothy , Neglect not the gift that is in thee , which was given thee by Prophosie , ( 〈◊〉 Tim. 4. 14. ) so that his gift came by Prophesie from the spirit of the Lord and not from Paul though Paul was a Father unto him . And againe , Paul said , Stirre up the gift of God which is in thee ; For God hath not given us the spirit of feare , but of power , of love , and a sound mind , ( 2 Tim. 1. 6. 7. ) so that Timothy received his Gospel from God , by the spirit of his power , and of love ; and from the gift of God in him , he Preached , and not from man , her by man ; And cursed be the deceivers , which would draw people from the Gospel of God , unto mans Traditions , as such Priests seek to doe . Now , if you had onely said , that you have not received any Gospel from God , but from man , many would have beleeved you ; for they know it is so ; but when you charge your own guilt upon the Apostle , and say , that he did not receive the Gospel from God , but from man ; herein many wi●l beare witnesse against you ; for they know , and beleeve to the contrary . Priests eighth Principle . That Gr●ce cannot be conveyed to any man from the Lord , 〈◊〉 it 〈◊〉 the ordinary outward means of Preaching . Ans. This is to limit God from his spirit and power within , and Word in the heart , ( as Rom. 10. ) to outward Preaching , and to ordinary outward means ; this is blasphemy● as to say , that God cannot convey Grace to any man , but ●y outward Preaching . And if you meane by your outward Preaching ; the Grace of God hath appeared to all men , where your outward Preaching never came : But in this , all people may see your darknesse , and that your offence is not onely against us ; but against the Apostles , and against God himselfe , for giving his Grace freely to people , who will not be limited by you : And by such Doctrines as these , the Lord God hath made you to appeare ( as you are ) an ill savour in the Nation , who goes not about onely to keep people from the gift of God in them ; but also to limit God from giving good gifts to his children , who by the free Grace of God received from him ( without your outward Preaching ) shall witnesse against you , and your outward Teaching , by which he never conveyed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Priests ninth Principle . That the light spoken of in John 1. which enlightens every man , &c. is not sufficient to leade up to Christ . Ans. In him was life , and the life was the light of men , ( Iohn 1. 4. ) And this was the true light which lightene●● every man that commeth into the World , ( ver. 9. ) Now let all people consider , whether the life of Christ , ( which is the light of men , ) be not able to leade to Christ , or to the Father . For he was the light of men , that all men through him might beleeve , ( ver. 7. ) And here is Christ , and his light ●ccused ; ( yea , his life accused not to be sufficient ; ) so it is no great matter , if by those men we be accused , when neither the Father , nor the Sonne , nor the holy Apostles of our Lord Iesus Christ , can escape their accusation ; but we are not greater then they , and so with patience we shall beare it ; for it is enough for the servant to be be as his Lord . Priests tenth Principle . That they know no such thing as Prophesie by immediate Inspiration , or Revelation in these dayes . Ans. No . How should you know any Prophesie by Inspiration , that knows not , how God can give any Grace , but by outward Preaching ? so you are farre from the gift of Prophesie , who are yet ignorant of the spirit of Grace , by which God gives Grace unto his children . But though you know no such thing ; yet there is such a thing , and the Lord is faithfull who hath promised , Ieel 2. that he will powre out his Spirit upon Sonnes and Daughters , Servants and Hand maids , and they shall Prophesie . And there is both Sonnes and Daughters , Servants and Hand-maids , that now doe Prophesie . And there is no Prophesie , but by immediate Inspiration . And because that Sonnes and Daughters doe now Prophesie , being Inspired by the holy Ghost , and from the gift of God received ; therefore is your envy and rag● so great against them , because you know no Prophesie , nor no Gospel from God , but from man ; and so you are contrary to the Apostles ; For he would have had Prophesying in the Church ; and bid them , covet to Prophesie . But these Priests forbid to Prophesie , contrary to the Apostles Doctrine and Writing , ( 1 Cor. 14. 39. ) Now when people ●ath tryed you , What can they expect from you , that knowe no Prophesie by Inspiration , nor knows no Gospel from G●d , nor knowes not the flesh of Christ , nor no sufficiency in his light , nor his spirituall Body which is in Heaven , nor the Gospel , which is the power of God , nor no Knowledge of God , by the Revelation of his Sonne : and these being your maine Fundamentall Principles , in which you so blasphemously are erred from the Truth ; it is now high ●nto to turne away from such , for many people have been deceived by you ; for they had thought that you had had the Knowledge of those things , which now ( it is manifest ) you are ignorant of . And now , blessed be the God of the spirits of all flesh , who hath discovered your ignorance , and blindnesse , which for a time was hid , under a pretence of words ; but now he hath rent the Vayle of the Covering , and he is drying up the Fountaine of your Imaginations , from whence your empty Words have proceeded , that his life may have place in the Earth , which is now breaking forth amongst his Children , which are come to the Fathers Teachings , which you have laboured to keep them from : But now hath the Lord loosed their bands , and brought them to his owne Teachings , and into his owne Fould , where they need no more your false meanings , nor cousenings of those words which the Spirit of the Lord inspired in them , which gave them forth . And the Everlasting Day of God is broken forth upon us , though Night be come upon you , that you have no Vision ; and the secrets and Councels of the Lord is shut up from you , that you have not a Word from his Mouth : But truely , the Lord is good to Israel , even to them that be of an upright heart . And the Lord is with us , as a mighty terrible one ; therefore our persecutors shall stumble , and they shall not prevaile , they shall be greatly ashamed , they shall not prosper ; their everlasting confusion shall never be forgotten , ( Ieremiah 20. 21. ) For now is the Lord establishing his Everlasting Covenant with his seed , even his Covenant of life and peace with those in whom the Law of truth is in their Hearts , and iniquity not found in their l●pps ; who walk with God in peace and equity , and doe turne many away from their iniquities , ( Mal. 2. 5. 6. ) And this shall all they witnesse that feare the Lord , and that walke in the way of his Righteousnesse . FINIS . 
A44844	----	A reply to a book set forth by one of the blind guides of England who is a priest at Barwick Hall in Lancashire, who writes his name R. Sherlock, Batcheler of Divinity, but he is proved to be a diviner and deceiver of the people which book is in answer to some queres set forth to him by them whom he calls Quakers ... / Richard Hubberthorne. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A44844 of text R6754 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing H3231). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 74 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 17 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A44844 Wing H3231 ESTC R6754 13506295 ocm 13506295 99808 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A44844) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 99808) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 791:23) A reply to a book set forth by one of the blind guides of England who is a priest at Barwick Hall in Lancashire, who writes his name R. Sherlock, Batcheler of Divinity, but he is proved to be a diviner and deceiver of the people which book is in answer to some queres set forth to him by them whom he calls Quakers ... / Richard Hubberthorne. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. [2], 32 p. Printed for Giles Calvert, London : 1654. Reproduction of original in Huntington Library. eng Sherlock, R. -- (Richard), 1612-1689. -- Quakers wilde questions objected against the ministers of the Gospel. Society of Friends -- Doctrines. A44844 R6754 (Wing H3231). civilwar no A reply to a book set forth by one of the blind guides of England, who is a priest at Barwick Hall in Lancashire, who writes his name R. She Hubberthorn, Richard 1654 14878 99 0 0 0 0 0 67 D The rate of 67 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the D category of texts with between 35 and 100 defects per 10,000 words. 2004-12 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-02 SPi Global Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-04 Olivia Bottum Sampled and proofread 2005-04 Olivia Bottum Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion A REPLY To a Book set forth By one of the blind Guides of England , who is a Priest at Barwick Hall in LANCASHIRE , Who writes his name , R. Sherlock , Batcheler of Divinity , but he is proved to be a Diviner and deceiver of the People : Which Book is in answer to some Queres set forth to him by them whom he calls QUAKERS . And herein are Replies given to his Answers , by those whom the world reproachfully calls QUAKERS : But we do dwell in the power of the living God , which makes all the earth to quake and tremble at his presence , who is terrible to the wicked , and is laying open and discovering the deceipts of all blind Guides , Hirelings and deceivers , and is making his power manifest , and his name known in his people , whom the world calls QUAKERS . Dreadfull , powerfull God! Praises to thee for ever . Amen . Thy Servant , Richard Hubberthorne . O England ! thy Prophets have se●en vain and foolish things for thee , and they have not discovered thine iniquity , to turn away thy captivity , but have seen for thee false burthens and causes of banishment . Lam. 2.14 . And because thou hast hearkened unto them , and not unto me , saith the Lord , therefore woe and misery is coming upon thee and thy Prophets . LONDON , Printed for Giles Calvert . 1654. REader , This is the word of the Lord to thee , take heed unto the light Christ hath inlightened thee wi●hall , to guide thy mind into the fear of God , to the light of Christ in thy conscience I speak , which if thou hearken unto it , it will lead thee out of pride , and lus● , and envie , and will bring condemnation upon that nature thou hast lived and acted in , that is out of the feare of God , and hearkning ●o this light in thy conscience , it will di●ect thy mind to God , and draw thy min● and affections out of earthly things , and the pollutions of the world , by which thou art defiled ; thy mind and conscience is defiled by lust and uncleannesse , lusting after earthly things , and the flesh is defiled by that mind that wallowes in the earth : Now minding this light in thy conscience Christ hath inlightened thee withall , thy understanding will come to be inlightened , to see the deceipts and the blind guides which have led thee from this light in thy conscience which should exercise it , and lead thee to go to fear him , and to be taught of him , and will lead thee from the teachings of man which keeps thee in thy sins , and draw : thee from this light in thy conscience , which convinceth thee of sin , and lets thee see sin and evill , and all ungodlinesse , and will bring thee to deny it , and lead thee to repentance , and so thou wilt come to know Jesus Christ , which gives repe●tance and remission of sins , and then thou wilt deny Priest Sherlock , and all that generation of Priests , who saith in the 32. page of his book , that Christ was a person ●ot capable of faith and repentance . And here I do charge him in the presence of the living God to be a lyer , for he is the author and finisher of faith , and be preached repentance , and gives repentance to his people : And he denies the knowledg and understanding the Apostles had , and yet saith he preaches the same Gospel , pag. 10. and saith that externall Tongues , Arts and Sciences gives them to understand the meaning of the Gospel , pag. 11. and saith that the spirit causeth fleshly fruits , pag. 22. and saith , that to understand the doctrine of God , they must use the light of distinctions , pag. 54. and saith that Religion is the art of arts , pag. 86. and saith , that prayer in all the parts and species thereof is a means to fetch down the holy spirit of God , pag. 144. when as the Saints said the spirit taught them to pray , and that they prayed with the spirit and with understanding . Now to the light in your consciences I speak , which will let you see these lying Priests and blind guides , which have deceived you so long , and kept you blind and ignorant . So all people cease from them , and wait upon the Lord for teaching . A lover of the truth , and a witnesse against the deceit and deceivers ; and a lover of the souls of all people : and that righteousnesse might be established was I moved to write this . Richard Hubberthorne . A reply to a book set forth by the Priest of Barwick , who writes R. Sherlock , which was an answer to some Queries set forth to him , by them whom he calls Quakers ; who writes himself Batcheler of Divinity , and a Diviner he is proved . Quest . 1. WHether your gospel be the same which the Apostles preached , and if it be , why go you to Oxford and Cambridge , when the Apostle saith , the gospel that he preached was not after man , neither was he taught it by man ? Pr. Thy answer is , You preach the same gospel the Apostles preached , but do not attain the knewledge and understanding of this gospel by the same means : Rep. Here let all people see what wooden stuffe this is : How can you preach the same gospel , and have not the same knowledge and understanding ? If it be not by the same knowledge and understanding , it is not the same gospel ; for the spirit of understanding is but one , and from this spirit of understanding thou hast cleared thy self . Pr. And thou sayest , You ought not to depend upon any such immediate revelation from heaven as the Apostles had . Rep. Here again thou h●st cleared thy self from the Spirit that gave forth the scriptures , who denies immediate revelation from heaven ; and here thou hast denyed thy self to b● any Minister of Jesus Christ , for no man knows the Son but the Father , and to whom he is revealed ; and thou that denyest immediate Revelation , thou hast denyed the Son of God , and hast shewed that thou hast not life ; for he that hath not the Son of God , hath not life : And therefore we deny such schools a● Oxford and Cambridge , where the rudiments of the world are invented and abundance of filthy words are in the answer to this Querie , which are not worth mentioning . Que. 2. Whether you can give another meaning to the scripture● then they are ? or whether the Apostles did give the meaning to them when they spoke them forth , yea , or nay ? and if they did , what need learned men give a meaning to them ! Pr. And in thy answer thou sayest , The sense and meaning of the scripture is involved in it . Rep. Here thou wouldest make people believe , Christ were in the letter , who is the substance that gave it forth , and was in them that spoke it forth ; for the scripture doth declare another thing of God and Christ , it doth not declare God and Christ is in the letter , but here it is that fools might appear to be blinde , and such as thou sayest , learned men , must give the meaning to the scripture . Pr. And thou sayest that Christ took a text , and that Philip took a text . Rep. O thou enemy and slanderer of Christ and the Apostle ! Did they take texts to get money with them , and to lye a quarter of a year , or half a year in a text ? Christ came to fulfil the scripture , and the Apostle shewed how Christ fulfilled the scripture , and came to fulfil that , which the prophets spoke : The Scribes and Pharisees were learned men , and they could not open the scriptures ; Peter an unlearned man , he opened the scriptures . Pr. And thou speakest of standing up in a pulpet of wood . R●p . In the time of the Law when they read it , there was a pulpet of wood to a particular people , to whom the Law was given ; but Christ said , Go preach the gospel to every creature : And Christ cryed woe against them that had the chief●st place in the Assemblies : And here thou art one of them that would be under the Law , and would have a pulpet of wood , and pleads for thy learning , that the scribes and Pharisees were in , which is to no purpose ; who saith the ke●nel of the Nut is in the shell : and that comparison thou bringest to make people believe that the life is in the scriptures , and so the poor people is groping in the letter to finde life there , when the life was in them that gave it forth . Pr. Thou speakest of flying to God by prayer . Rep. Yet thou denyest revelation from heaven , which the saints was to wait for , the revelation of Jesus from heaven ; and this makes all you blinde guides to stumble , because you have not the life which gave forth the scriptures , which now is made manifest to the children of God . Que. 3. Shew me by the scriptures who ever was made a Minister of Jesus Christ , that was called of men , Master . In thy answer to this Querie , thou bringest the Prophets and Priests under the Law called Fathers , to oppose Christs doctrine . Thou wouldest compare Oxford and Cambridge to such as the Prophets and Apostles ; yet thou denyest immediate revelation from heaven : And here thou hast cleared thy self , and Oxford , and Cambridge from the life of the Prophets ; for they had immediate revelation , and so thou bringest many names , as Pastors , and Shepherds , and Ministers , and Apostles , and Evangelists , to oppose Christs doctrine , who saith , Be not you called of men Master . So let all see if they be not under the delusion , who saith Master is a civil honour , and so opposeth Christs doctrine . Here thou hast shewed thou dost not believe ; for how can you believe , that seek honour one of another ? and shewest that thou lovest it , as the Scribes and Pharisees did , & would not part with it , and art in thy pride and vain glory , as the Scribes and Pharisees were , who saith that is a civil honor and respect , which Christ cryed woe against . And here thou hast brought thy self & all thy company under the woe , and Oxford , and Cambridge , in the state which Christ pronounced woe against , and thou art judged with the same life that give forth the scriptures . Que. 4. Shew me by the scriptures , where ever the Ministers of Christ took Tithes of the people , or Augmentations . In thy answer thou sayest , The Priests under the Law received Tithes . There was a time that they received Tithes , and they might not neglect them , as denying their Tithes to the first Priesthood . There was a time after Christ when he was sacrificed up , that he was preached the unchangeable Priesthood , Heb. 7. then the priesthood which received tithes was denyed , therfore the woe is come upon thee and all thy generation which receive tithes , according to the changeable Priesthood . Here thou hast shewed thy self without judgment & the love of God , & the woe is come upon thee & all thy generation which receive Tithes , and hold up the changeable priesthood , and so denyes Christ come in the flesh . They ●hat preached the gospel , which lived on the gospel , denyed the changeable Priesthood which received Tithe● ; but for shame you Ministers of Oxford and Cambridge stop your mouths , for they must be stopt : do not you sue men at the Law , and imprison men for Tithes ? and here you shew you do not preach the gospel , for it will not maintain you ; for them that preached the gospel , lived on the gospel ; there thou thief art taken , who hath gotten the Apostles words , who art for judgement . Que. 5. Shew me by the scriptures , and what scripture have you which speaks of the word Sacrament , which you tell the people of , and deceives the simple . Pr. And in thy answer to this Querie , thou art confused : First thou sayest there is no scripture for the word Sacrament ; and yet thou sayest Christ commands it , and yet thou sayest there is not such a word in scripture . Rep. Here thou which adds to it , hast brought thy self under the plagues and wo : And here let all who are in the light see if thou art not a deceiver , who deceives thy soul . I charge thee again that thou knowest not Christ , for thou denyest immediate revelation , so thou knowest not his commands , nor doth not obey them ; for none knows the Son , but to whom he is revealed : and here I charge thee to be a deceiver and a deluder of the soul from the Lord . This is in reply to the answer of the fifth Querie . Que. 6. Shew me what scripture you have which speaks that the Apostles sprinkled infants . Thou bringest the scriptures ( as Christ saith ) Suffer little chilren to come unto me , and forbid them not , for of such is the kingdom of God : and this thou bringest to justifie sprinkling infants ; for circumcision outwardly , was a type of circumcision inwardly : So thou hast not a word in the scripture to maintain it , but thou ramblest up and down , and perverts many scriptures , in which there is not such a word for it : And here I charge thee in the presence of the living God to be a liar ; for Christ never commanded sprinkling infants , neither is it any ordinance of Christ , neither is there any example among the holy men of God , that ever it was practised ; and the plagues of God is added to thee . Let all people see if there be any word for sprinkling infants , and let the scriptures which thou bringest judge thee , Luke 18.15 . Jer. 15.6 . Luk. 1.66 , 80. Acts 10.47 . Here I charge thee with all these Scriptures to be a liar , that all these scriptures shal judg thee , which thou hast brought for sprinkling of Infants , let the reader of thy booke examine the Scriptures , and find the a liar , and all thy dirty stuffe which thou hast gaithered from them , is to be troden under foot , with the children of the light , who wittnesse Baptisme , and circumsition and new birth borne againe , and all who are here do see thee to be blind , deafe , and a foole , and there thou maiest read thy selfe , let all people see thee here , who art without the life of the Srripture , who deniest immediate revelation from Heaven , which the Apostles wittnessed , and the Prophets , for without God thou art eternally , I witnesse it . Que. 7. Shew me what Scripture you have to stand praying in the Sinagogues before Sermon and after , and whether the Apostles did so ? In thy Answer to this querie , thou bringest the Apostles words , ( which said pray allwaies ) to justifie standing praying in the Sinagogues , and having the cheifest place in the Assemblies , which Christ cried woe against , and here I charge thee to be a false Prophet , who puts no difference betwixt the Apostle and the Pharesies , though he said , the temple which Solomon built him , it was a hous● of Prayer , Christ said there should not be one stone of it left upon another when Christ Jesus was witnessed . Stephen for witnessing him was stoned to death ; and here thou hast shewed , thou hast no judgment , and errs not knowing the Scripture ; and as for Christs whipping them out of the temple , read thy selfe , to the light in thy conscience I speake , and so all thy praying before thy Sermon and after , as thou callest it , in the Sinagogues , in the chiefest place of the Assemblies , the woe which Christ pronounced against thy Fathers hath light upon the Son , thou who art found in the same place , let Math. 23. judge thee , the life which gave forth these words , the life of these words is upon thee , and so all thy praiers are abomination to the Lord God , in the state thou art in , and the praying of the Saints which was moved by the Spirits , thou hast cleared thy selfe from , for thou deniest immediate revelation from heaven , and how canst thou pray and not with the Spirit ? and here let all people judge and see what thy praiers are if thou be not in the st●te of the Pharisees , who deny immediate revelation , and to be one that is blind , and the praying with the Spirit is wittnessed among the Saint● . Que. 8. Shew me by the Scripture , when the Apostles went into the world , and gave the people of the world Davids Psalmes to be sung in meeter , the things that you practise , answer them by the Scriptures or the Apostles practise , without consequence or imagination . And in thy answer to this querie , thou perverts the Scripture , as in the Acts , as Paul and Silas sung Psalmes in the prison , with them of the world , they did not go into the world to give them a Psalme to sing , men that were not come to repentance , for saith David , the dead cannot praise God , and there I charge thee to be a lier , and puts no difference betwixt the Saints singing with grace and understanding , and the world which hath gotten the forme where thou art , the Apostle did not speake to such as were in thy condition , to be filled with the Spirit , which is not come to repentance , but he spoke to them which were turned from the world , and such sung praises to God , but for such as thee , to go and give to the world Davids Psalms in a meeter , and say , O Lord I am not puft in mind , I have no scornfull eye : O you profane ones and scornfull ones ! how can you sing th●s but lie , who have scornefull ●yes and to sing all your bones quake , and you tremble , and you water your bed with your teares , and you lie roaring all the night and day , when as you scorne Quakers , and hate them , and speake all manner of evill of them , how can you speake this but lie ? But Davids condition and the Saints is witnessed , among them which the world scornfully calls Qu●kers ; which power makes all to tremble , though you scorne it a while , and have gotten the outside the letter , Davids condition in a forme of words , scorning his life , and the power of God where it is made manifest , take warning all you scoff●rs and scorners , what came to be the end of all your Fathers that passed before you , but destruction ? your lofty ones feare and tremble before the mighty God , for all your songs must be turned into howling , but singing with the Spirit we owne , the grace which hath appeared to all men , teaches us to deny ungodlinesse and worldly lusts : and here I charge thee again to be b●ind , who puts no diffe●ence betwixt the worlds singing and the Saints . Que. 9. Whether a man shall overcome the body of sin while he is upon the earth yea or no ? Pr. And in thy answer to this 9. querie thou saiest , it is not possible to subdue the body of sin altogether , whilest we are in this world , and thy comparison is , a tree while there is life in it , will bring forth fruit . Rep. Here I charge thee in the presence of the living God , to be the corrupt tree , for by thy fruit thou art knowne , for a good tree cannot bring forth evill fruit ; and here thou art proved to be that corrupt tree , which confesses you doe not attaine to the same knowledge and understanding the Apostles did , as thou speakest in thy booke , whose harvest is ripe and now is reaping downe . Pr. And whereas thou saiest , they shall not overcome the body of sin , whilest in this world . Rep. And here I charge thee againe , for say the Saints , as he is so are we in this present world , and thou saiest nor , there is the lying Spirit , and the Apostle said , they had put off the body of sin , and thou saiest it is not possible ; and there thy Spirit is found contrary to the Scripture , and the Apostle saith in the 6. Rom. they were made free from sinne , and thou saiest not , it cannot be possible , and here thy Spirit is tried . Let all the children of the light judge thee and that thou speakest to be contrary to the Apostles words in the Romans , and all you that cannot wittnesse these things , that the body of sin is not put off , wait upon God thorow Christ for it . Que. 10. Whether the curse be not upon him that preacheth another Gospell then Christ and the Apostles preached , yea , or no ? Pr. And in thy answer to this querie thou speakest of receiving the Gospell from Christ , and the Apostles . Rep. In this I charge thee to be a lier , as I said to thee before , who denies immediate revelation from Heaven , how canst thou be a preacher of the Gospell , and deny revelation ? what a grosse darkenesse people are in that believe thee , for under the curse and woe thou art , that the Scripture speakes of , and he that hath received the end of his prophesie , is made free from the curse , but this is without thy understanding and knowledge , thou confessest in thy answer to the fi●st querie , you preach the same Gospell , but doe not attaine the same knowledge and understanding . Let all people see who are in the light , if it be not the same knowledge and understanding , it is not the same Gospell , but another , and there the curse is upon thee . Qu● . 11. Whether any natural man can preach the Gospell yes , or no ? Pr. In thy answer to this 11. querie , thou speakest of understanding and of studying ; and of the Gospel , and of a natural man , and saiest he cannot preach the Gospell , and thou saiest your understanding and knowledge is not the same as the Apostles was . R●p . Here le● all who are in the light see if it be not natural , then and if thou be not him that study a difinition of thy ovvne braine , and instead of the blessing the curse of God comes upon it , for how many is there that was Preists as you are , that now cries against you , which is come out of your generation , and sees the curse of God upon all your practices . Pr. And thou saiest the flesh which is quickened with the spirit of life brings forth some kinde of fleshly f●uits or other . Rep. Here thou hast shewed thy selfe to be death indeed , doth the spirit cause fruits of the flesh , or is the fruits of the spirit the fruits of the flesh ? O thou lier and high blasphemer , which thou saiest is cleare from manifold texts of Scripture , all the Scriptures will wittnesse thee to be a lier , and these Scriptures thou brings to maintaine the spirit of life to bring forth some kinde of fleshly fruits , and the fruits of the spirit to be the fruits of the flesh . Here all who are in the spirit will judge thee , to be a blasphemer of the holy spirit of God , for the spirit brings forth no fruits of the flesh . Pr : And thou saiest in thy Answer to the first querie , you do ●ot go to Oxford and Cambridge to learne the Gospel you preach , but to learne the knowledge of tongues and languages , arts and sciences . Rep. O for shame stop thy mouth , here thou hast shamed thy selfe and all your Schooles with an external meanes to open the Gospell , people are blind indeed that do follow thee , but thy bottle is open and what is within powres out . And the fountaine runs , and thy external stuffe powres out , which hath poisoned many people which thou saiest thou shouldest open the Gospel withall ; All that have the least convincement may see thee to be a seducer , for what is external is natural , and what is natural knowes not the things of God , but the Lord be praised thou hast declaired thy selfe abroad . Que. 12. Whether that any ministers of God were made ministers by the will of man yea or no , shew it me by the Scripture . Pr. And in thy answer to this querie thou saiest , there is no minister of God made by the will of man only , but by man in subordination ; Rep. Here thou crossest the scripture , Paul an Apostle , not of man , nor by man , and here the lying spirit hath shewed it selfe indeed . Pr. And thou saiest there is no such hope of any such calling as was in the time of the Apostles . Rep. And here thou hast c●st thy selfe and thy fellows , and all thy study to be without the Doctrine & life of the Apostles , for thou concludest there is no such calling , yet thou talkest of laying on hands , there thou and you are making likenesses which is forbidden , and to be confounded , and so we conclude , and all the children of light shall judge , that your hope and your calling , and your Ministery made by the will of man , and not only by God , to be without God , and contrary to the Apostles . Que. 13. Shew mee by the scripture , whether a man shall grow up to that condition , that he need no man teach him but the Lord or no ? Pr. We must not looke for any immediate extraordinary miraculous teaching by revelation from the Lord , and yet all men are taught of God too . Rep. What confused stuffe is this , and blasphemy , that comes out of thy bottle ? thou wouldest make God not an immediate , doth not God teach immediate ? here thou shewest that thou dost not know the living God ; for the teaching of God is immediate in the least degree . Pr. None aimes to such a perfection of knowledge in his gifts as not to need teaching . Rep. Here I charge thee to be a lier , who speaks contrary to the scripture , and here I charge thee in the presence of the living God to be a slanderer , who speaks of being taught of the Lord Jesu● Christ outwardly , by the spirit , what confused stuffe is this ? And here againe I charge thee to be a lier ; for the words of our Lord Jesus Christ are spirit and life , but such as thou who lookest upon the outward thing cannot receive his words , though you have the letter of the Gospel , as they had the letter of the law . Que. 14. Whether they be not Antichrist , and disobey Christ , that have the chiefest places in the assemblies , stand praying in the synagouges , which Christ did forbid his disciples to act such things ●nd c●ied woe against those that did act them . In thy answer to this querie , thou ramblest up and downe , with many words to justifie that which Christ cried woe against , to justifie the cheifest place in the Assemblies , and to be called of men Master ; and for standing praying in the Synagouges , which Christ pronounced woe against , and so let all people see if thou and you be not such as are called of men Masters , and stand praying in the Synagouges , w●ich the woe was and is upon , Math. 23. and there is neither shelter nor hole for thee to hide thy selfe , for them that walke in the truth will find thee out , and praised be the Lord God of heaven and earth , who hath given us a spirit of discerning , and we are able to judge you who live in deceit , for the Apostle prophecied with the spirit of the Lord that such should come , and we see with the same spirit you are come , and with the same spirit you are judged . Que. 15. Whether they be not Antichrists and of the Devill , and no Ministers of Christ , which do not abide in the Doctrine of Christ ? Pr. They that swerve from the Doctrine of Christ , are of the spirit of Antichrist . Rep. There thou art , this is thy owne condition , who deniest immediate revelation , and thou that deniest immediate revelation , deniest Christ ( for Paul said , the Son was revealed in him ) and so all that thou speakest is with the lying spirit , in the wicked generation ; and wher●a● thou slanderest and saiest we raile , that i● false ; And againe thou speakest of love , because the letter declares it , but the love of God who dwells in it , to such thou art an enemy , and as touching using plainnesse of speech to people , because we do not flatter nor use enticing words of mens wisedom , which thou dost , so thou hast cleared thy selfe from the children of God , and to be in the generation of them that swerve from the doctrine of Christ , who seekest to justifie that which he cried woe against , as Math. 23. And whereas thou accusest us for railing upon people , thou art a lier , for love useth plainnesse of speech , and love and charity is out of deceit , if we should flatter we should hold it up , and should be pleading for thy generation , who talks of God , and confesses that you have not the same knowledge and understanding that the Apostles had . Therefore how can you know God then ? And whereas thou speakest of trying the spirits , the fruits of it is love , here with the spirit of love is thy generation tried , for when the servants of the Lord have been moved to come into your Synagogues , some hast beene stockt , and wounded and imprisoned and hailed out of your synagogues ; And is this the fruits of your spirit . Que. Whether they be not seducers that draw people from the annointing which is in them , and tell them they must be taught of a man , whereas the anoynting teacheth them , they need no man teach them but as the annointing teacheth them , and the promise is to him that doth abide in it eternally ? Pr. Many false prophets are gone forth . Rep. Here thou hast proved thy self to be a false prophet , who denies immediate revelation ; for whom the Lord sent forth , he spoke to them immediately , which thou deniest , and there thou art one of the false prophets which thou speakest of , and knowes nothing of the annointing , who deceives the simple and ignorant , the world may wonder after such , but who are in the light , and receive any thing immediate , will see thee in the dark , to be a deceiver ; for none in thy generation can witness , that you need no man teach you but the annointing ; for who doth , are come out from your teaching and you both . And as touching Sects , them we deny , as thou speakest in thy answer to the fifteenth querie : therefore do we see thee , with that which is no Sect , to be colouring and deluding people , telling them thy error is truth , who quotes and misapplies the Scripture to maintain thy falshood . Pr. The flesh is quickened with the spirit of life , to bring forth some kind of fleshly fruits , 1 King. 8.46 . Ioh● 14.4 . Prov. 20.9 . 1 Ioh. 1.8 , 10. Eccles. 7.22 . Rep. Here I charge thee ( to be a lier , and a blasphemer ) in the presence of the living God , let all people read these scriptures and see , if there be any such thing in them , and whether thou hast not misapplied these scriptures , when the spirit saith , it crucifieth the deeds of the flesh , and walking in the spirit , the lusts of the flesh is not fulfilled , and here I charge thee to be a lier , and of the Devill , who was a lier from the beginning , and in his generation thou art . Qu. 17. Whether they do not bewitch the people , who withdraw them from the spirit within to observe the ordinances of the world , and tradition● of men without , as the Galatians were bewitched ? Gal. 3.1 . Pr. I must tell you that there is not only a holy and good spirit within , and that in too few , but there 's also an evil and seducing spirit within , and that in too many ; even the spirit that doth bewitch men , and draw them aside from the doctrines and commands of the spirit of truth ; and to strive by all means to draw the people off from giving heed to seducing spirits ; it is not to observe the ordinances of the world , and traditions of men , as you pervert the text , but to obey the command of Gods true spirit , who foretelling of false prophets , and false spirits , often in the word commands , exhorts , and admonishes to beware of such , not to give heed to such , and not to believe every spirit , but to trie them . Rep. Here in this answer ( thy spirit is tried ) which I have given to all people to read with a single eye , that all may see what confusion here is in it . First thou sayest that the seducing spirit drawes from the seducing spirit , and in the seducing spirit thou art , and from the spirit of life , with the spirit of life thou art judged to be out of the doctrine of Christ , nor is not guided by the holy spirit . Que. 18. Whether they be not seducers , which tell people these are the ordinances of God , which God never commanded , as sprinkling infants , telling people of a sacrament , which there is no scripture for , and draw them from the spirit within to follow your imaginations and inventions . Pr. But for sprinkling infants , I have already given you the grounds of it out of scripture . Rep. Here again I charge thee in the presence of the living God to be a lyar , there is not such a word in the scripture to bear it out , nor a word of a sacrament , which there is no scripture for ; let all read the scripture throughout , and see if they can find such a word in the scripture , so let all people judge thee to be a liar , and a s●ducer , and in the devils invention , which calls that an ordinance of God , which is invention and imagination . Pr. We are not blind-folded to follow the dictates of the spirit within . Rep. Here J charge thee in the presence of the Lord to be in the flesh , and to follow the flesh , for who are led by the spirit of God , are the sons of God , and thou that dost not follow the dictates of the spirit , thou dost not follow the commands of God : and what hast thou to do to talk of clearing it by the scripture , when there is no scripture for it , and when the scripture witnesses against the works of the flesh , which thy spirit stirs up . Qu● . Whether you have the same spirit which was in Christ , the Apostles , and Prophets , which gave forth the scripture , seeing you act contrary to the scrip●ures , and follow your own inventions and tradition● , and so erre from them ? Pr. Our ministeriall actions are agreeable to the scripture . Rep. Here J charge thee to be a lyar , for in thy answer to the former Quere thou sayest , you do not follow the dictates of the spirit within , and art holding up sprinkling infants , which there is no scripture for , and so walk contrary to the scripture , and to them that were led by the spirit , which gave them forth . Que. 2● . Whether ever Christ and his Apostles did first baptize , and then preach faith and repentance twenty or thirty years afterwards ? Pr. Christ himself wa● not capable of faith and repentance . Rep. Here J charge thee to be a lier and a slanderer , for he was capable of faith and repentance , and the baptisme which the Apostles baptized withall , what hast thou to do with it , who art holding up sprinkling infants , which there is no example for , in the scriptures , nor in all the Apostles practises ? Therefore silence flesh , for thou knowest nothing of the wisdome of God which the Apostle speaks of , but art in the state of Simon Magus , who art buying and selling the letter , worse then he , for he would have bought the spirit which the Apostles denied , so thou art denied with the same spirit , but the saints baptisme we owne , and the beleevers , and the promises which is to the seed , thou hast cleared thy selfe from , who saith Christ was not capable of faith , how could he be above it , and not capable of it ? and the life that I live , is by faith of the Son of God , saith the Apostle ; which thou hast cleared thy selfe from . Que. 21. Whether ever Christ and his Apostles received 100. or 200. pounds a yeare for preaching the Gospel ? Pr. Many of the Apostles converts sold their estates , and brought it and laid it downe at the Apostles feet . Rep. Here J challenge all the Oxford and Cambridge Teachers in England ; how many of their converts have sold their estates , and laid it downe at your feet , but you teachers and they are so earthly minded , you are fit to sue them at the law , and imprison them , ( as Lancaster , and K●ndal● goals may wittnesse , where many suffer now because they will not pay tithes , ) and so you shew you preach another Gospell , so let Christ and the Apostles judge you all to be without their doctrine , and your convert , as thou callest them , to be without the Apostles and Christ , let their example judge you all , and so you shew that you never sowed spirituall things , but only as a custome and a cloake thou bringest these words , for the Apostle did reape carnal things , where he sowed spirituall things . Que. 22. What scripture is there to limit God to a place , calling it a Church , when as the Church is in God ? 1 Thes. 1.1 . Pr. You cry down all distinctions , as favouring of humane learning , whereby the naked truth might be clearly and distinctly seen , as it is in it self . Rep. Here let all people take notice , whether humane learning can open the naked truth ; Here thou wouldest make people beleeve , that humane learning was before the naked truth ; and againe , let all people take notice , and see , if the meeting in a steeple-house in England be a Church , when so many hath beene moved of the Lord to come into meeting places among them , and something hath been revealed to them , and they have spoken , and he that was the pretended teacher , which was in the cheifest place in the Assemblie , hath cryed out , they disturb mee ; and then they have hailed them out to the stocks , or prison , and knockt them , or bruized them ; and may be some have laine a quarter of a year in prison or more . Now let all people take notice , which have a love to God , whether this be the Church which is the pillar and ground of truth , or the ●age of uncleane birds , which the Scripture speaks of when as the Scripture saith , if any thing be revealed to him that stands by , l●t the first hold his peace : and the Church of God we owne , but all such Churches as are fighters , and which do imprison them , who are moved of the Lord to come speake to them , such Churches we deny . And whereas thou slanderest us , that we cry against the Ministers , all such Ministers are to be cried against , for they are contrary to the scripture . Que. What scripture is there to have a Clark say Amen , and to have groats apeece of the world for his trade ? Pr. And for the groat he receives yearly of some persons in the world , J conceive it is not so much for saying Amen , but he hath other offices . Rep. Here thou goest about to justifie the Clarke and his groat , and the custome of saying Amen , which the Apostles practised no such thing , neither had they any Clarke to say Amen , which had a groat for his labour , and let all the practise of the Apostles judg thee , who saith that the Clarke hath other offices then saying Amen , that is , may be to ring the bell to gather carnall people together , to hear such a blind guide as thou art , and for laying you a cushion , that you may lie soft , or opening the booke , or giving forth the Psalmes , which all this here is no example for , that the Apostles had any such thing , but it is that you false prophets might utter forth your folly , for to the children of light you are discovered , and seen to be without the Doctrine of Christ , and the Apostles , and all the Scripture shall judge you , and in thy answer , thou dost conceive , there thou hast brought thy selfe under that state , which must be scattered , for the Lord will scatter the proud in their vaine ●maginations and conceivings , and let the Prophets words judge thee . Que. 24. What Scripture is there , for taking money for burying the dead or to have ten or twelve Shillings for preaching a Funerall Sermon , or to take money for marrying man or woman ? Pr. For our paines in labouring in the word and doctrine , the Apostle gives that general rule , the labourer is worthy of his hire And what their wages is , is not of our choosing , but partly the liberality of founders , and benefactors , partly custome among all people , in all Christian countries , hath setled it . Rep. Here thou usest the Apostles words , which as I have shewed thee before , thou art cleared from his life : O thou blind guide , whose mind is in the earth , who art in the customes , and art one of them , that doth hold them up , which all the Ministers of Christ are ashamed on thee , and all thy generation , who art without the life that gave ●orth the Scriptures , who art one of them that goes in the way of Balaam , who durst not take the gift though he loved it ; end as for the Apostles condition , I charge thee and command thee to be silent , and let it alone , who denies immediate revelation from heaven ; therefore all that thou speakest is from the earth and below : and the word thou knowest not , which was in the beginning , Joh. 1.1 . when the letter was not , and th●refore in it thou canst not learne , and the Christians that are baptized into Christ , are redeemed put of countries , where yet thou art , with thy customes and wayes of the Nation , as thou dost confesse , which Christ coms to redeem from ; and thou who receivest Balaam● wages , art sp●ing forth thy venome against the righteous seed , where ●t is rising . Que. 27. When did any that was sent of Jesus Christ to preach the Gospel , sue men at the Law ? Pr. Many differences may arise , which cannot well be decided without suit at Law . Rep. In thy answer to this querie thou dost allow of going to Law , which the Apostle did not , as in the Corinthians ; and he was a Minister of Christ : and here thou shewest thou art none ; for thou allowest that he did not , and who are come to the doctrine of Christ , which is yea and nay , there is no difference they need no going to Law , there is no contention : and many differences are in thy generation , which is without Christ and his doctrine , which many of you professed Ministers sue men at the Law , which the Apostle forbad ; and here openly I charge you all in the presence of the living God , to be no Minister of Christ , but are raced from the doctrine of Christ and the Apostles : and thou writest a scripture in Acts 19.38 . as concerning the rude multitude that was stirred up when truth was spoken , these were they which were not brought , into the truth , and there thou art among such a company , let all people see , how Acts 19. will justifie thee for going to Law , who professes thy self to be a Minister of Jesus Christ , which the Ministers of Christ denied : and here J charge thee again to be a perverter of the scripture , and void of the knowledge of Christ , and the life of the Apostles , and out of their doctrine , and do not call this r●iling , which is plainnesse of speech , and love to thy soul . Pr. And you raile very highly in scripture terms too , whereby you take the garments of Gods holy Spirit , and put them upon the Devils shoulders . Rep. Here thou dost accuse us for railing speeches , and as we told thee before , that we deny ; and here thou callest thy self a Devil , for of him thou art , which thy pretences , therefore woe is thy portion : and whereas thou sayest we revile and accuse the brethren , this is another of thy slanders : we bid thee answer the queries , and thou callest them scrupulous , to thee they are so : and again thou sayest we ●isapply the scripture , that is false , and the Lord Jesus Christ thou knowest not , who deniest immediate revelation , and what hast thou to do to talk of him , and as throwing the woes which the Scripture speaks of , which is against the deceits which thou livest in , they are thy portion , thou canst not escape them . If we should not give thee thy due and portion , we should flatter thee , and it would not be love : and why dost thou talk of understanding and bid us weigh and consider ? we have considered thy way , and do know it , and God hath given us an understanding in all things . Pr. Hebrew and Greek we do truly call the Originall . Rep. Here I charge thee that thou hast no more originall then Pilate thy father had , Pilate had Hebrew and Greek , which c●ucified Christ , which was the originall : and here I charge thee in the presence of the living God to be a lyar , for the word was in the beginning before any tongue was , and your Hebrew and Greek is naturall , and the naturall man knows not the things of God , and the world by wisdome knowes not God ; Pilate was a worldly man , and he had this originall , and the wisdome of the world , and there thou art , and and there the curse is upon thee , so here thou preachest another originall then the Apostles did , they preached Christ the fountain , and ●hou preachest Hebrew and Greek , that is thy originall , and thy father Pilate had that originall , which crucified Christ , and set it over him , and the scripture came not by the will of man : Therefore it is not the knowing of it by Hebrew and Greek , but by the spirit that gave it forth ; therefore all people take warning , and cease from such deceivers , and take heed to the light in your conscience , which is the light of Christ , to guide your minds up to God the Father of light , and be not deceived , nor wander not up and down after such , who know not the truth , but put Hebrew and Greek for the originall , which Pilate had , which crucified Christ Jesus , as you may read in Luke 23. All people may see thou art brought no further yet , then thy father Pilate , so all thy prayers we deny , for there is nothing of truth born up in thy understanding , who are led with a seducing spirit into delusions , who saith the spirit of life stirs up the flesh to bring forth fruits & thou that art in the flesh , cannot please God ; and there thy spirit is tried co be the spirit of error , and a great deal of such stuffe thou hast in thy answers to the queries , which is not worth mentioning : and this thou hast written to publish thy self , that them that have a love to Christ , their hearts may be turned from thee to God , to see how thou hast uttered forth thy folly , though with many faire glosses , thou and such as thou art deceives the simple , but all who are is the light do see thee and comprehend thee . Something in Reply to the Epistle thou wrotest to the Lady Bindlosse . TO her thou speakest of the doctrine , and spirit , and the holy Ghost . Here I charge the to be a liar , who knowes nothing of them , who denies immediate revelation , for thou who deniest that , deniest the Father and the Son , as in Math. 11.27 . Wherein goest thou about to exhort others , who art in the condition thy selfe , but art as Matthew , that would be serving ? If she do but take heed to the light which Christ hath enlightened her withall , she will quickly see thy folly , for the light which Christ hath enlightened her withall , shall be her condemn●tion if she hate it , and if she love it , it will guide her into the way of righteousnesse up to Christ , and there O woman is thy teacher , and this condemnation . And the work which is brought forth in the North doth terment thee , R. Sherlock , and such as the Lord doth move to exhort or to speak , such thou slanderest and dost accuse as tempting ; for the slanders and reproaches the woe wil turne upon thee from God , who is the justifier of his children , and with such Preists as thou art , the righteous seed was ever hated , as you may read throughout the Scriptures . If she that thou callest a Lady , be grounded upon thy doctrine , and be a member with thee of thy body , let her read thy answers to the queries , and the replies to them , to the light in her I speak , which is of Christ , which will witnesse mee and let her see thee ; and if her minde be guided by it , it will condemne all her former practises of worship , and let her see thy delusions . And againe thou art flattering the Lady , and tells her of a discourse of the spirit , and these are thy unsavoury words , who art discoursing of the spirit , but denies it , for thou that deniest immediate revelation , denies the spirit ; ●n the Corinthians the Apostle said things were revealed to him by the spirit , and all thy doctrines t● be denied , and all that thou speakest ; and thou art seen to be one of the evill beasts and slow bellies , whose mouth must be stopt ; and what dost thou tell her of growing up in the knowledg of God , and stop the way for her to passe , who deniest immediate revelations , which the Apostle exhorted to ? and they Saints was to have the loines of their minds girded up , as in the 1 Peter . 1.13 . And what hast thou to do to talk of heaven or happinesse , who art a beast in thy colours ? And so this is the intent that I have written this reply to the Ep●stle which thou wrote to her thou calls Lady , that she might with the light of Christ in her , see thy folly , for to that I speake which is the light of Christ , which if she hate it , it will be her eternal condemnation . Somthing in Rebly to thy Introduction . Pr. NO age hath brought forth more pretenders to the spirit of God , then this wherein we live . Rep. Let all people take notice , if thou be not he that pretends the spirit , who hath not the same understanding and knowledg that the Apostles had , and there thou art in the pretence , who art blind , and thy worship as thou calls it , is , thou dost not know what ; worse then it was at Samaria , who art in the pride of heart . And as thou saiest the Devill hath sown his crop , and r●apt his harvest , and there thou art one of his servants , sowing his seed , and among the delusions as thou calls them , fo● that is in thy Generation , which comes one of thy owne bottle , which now showes out , what is within issues forth , this is thy own condition , who seduces the people , the fire is kindling , and the tares are burning ; which makes you wicked ones to cry out ; and so all impostures and blasphemies are in thy generation : and you are ignorantly worshipping , and your grosse idolatry which thou speakest of is your owne , and thou art a murderer , and understandest not what thou speakest of them , and God thou knowest not , who deniest imm●diate revelation from heaven ; but onely what thou knowest , thou knowest naturally as a bruit beast , which Iude speaks of , and a great deal of stuffe thou hast in this Introduction , which is not worth mentioning . If the Reader do but read with a single eye , he may see all thy confused stuffe , which is not worth naming , and a great deale of stuffe tho● hast written in discourse of the Spirit ; and the Holy Ghost , which thou knowest not what thou speakest , and of the Trinity , which there is no Scripture for . A Reply to an Epistle that thou wrotest to him whom thou callest Sir Robert Bindlosse . THe Queries being sent to his house from Rich. Hubberthorne , being his desire that they should be made publike , and we do praise the LORD , that deceipt is brought to light . And thou sayest perhaps some satisfaction might be given to those seduced wavering soules amongst you : truly I do believe they will , and see your folly , that under his name whom thou callest Sir Rob. Bindlosse , under his name and patronage they may appear , as a covert to veil● their imperfections : But they will not vaile your imperfections : Therefore R. B. to three I say be wise , and feare the Lord , and run not on in the broad way , with such a one , who doth confesse in his answer to the first querie , that he doth not attain the same knowledge and understanding of the Gospell as the Apostles attained ; therefore thou R. Sh●rlock thy knowledge is bruitish , and thy understanding sottish , as the Scripture saith , for none knowes the Apostles condition and knowledge , but with the same understanding , and in this thou deniest it , and thou art in another knowledge and understanding , and art in another doctrine , and the true Gospel thou dost not know , and thou art to be held accursed , as the scripture saith , Gal. 1. and so here thou hast given satisfaction to many that stood in doubt , though to all the children of light thou wast known , & all things shal work together for good to them that love God , Rom. 8. therfore R. B. take heed what thou lets forth under thy name , and fathers , for if thou see a thief and consent with him , thou art guilty . And R. Sherlock , the queries that were sent to thee thou callest them scrupulous , and the Letter which was sent to thee as a Libell ; why doest thou slander the innocent , and simplicity , but of thy generation we look for no other , whose mouth is full of slanders . Thou slanderer , in thy Ep●st●e to the Lady thou slanderest privily under a colour , who flatters her , where thou art telling her of love , and stirs her up to envy , as in pag. 46. and incensing her , and would stir her up against them wh●m th●u callest Quake●s , so thou mightst as well have incensed her against Moses , who was a judge over all Israel , and quaked , and David who was a King quaked : so all that are vertuous wil own us , who denieth opinions , for them we deny , and there thou art , who livest in opinions , and as thou speakest of some to strike at the root of many infections and errors , which is overspread amongst you ; the Lord Iesus Christ hath raised up a light in his children , that they are striking at your root , and laying open the deceits , and bringing forth his own work to his own praise : and thou sayest all men do worship God and Christ with one heart , and one mouth , and after one manner , is not only decryed , but also dismist our Congregations . And since the pale of Ecclesiasticall Discipline is pulled down , by whose coercive lawes all men were kept within the limit of the true faith . Here I charge thee to be a lyar was the true faith maintained by an outward Law , and the Church , and the worship of God . Thou Traytor , have they pluckt down the true Faith , and the wo●sh●p of God , or your old Ceremonies ? Thou seducer , how art thou tormented by that which hath pluckt down the traditions : Tremble , for the hand and sword of the Lord is against thee , as it was against them , thou dissembler and envious one , the Law was not made for the Church which is the pillar and ground of truth , which worships God in the spirit ; but for such envious persons as thou art , who hast cleared thy Church and worship here , from the tr●e Church and worship of God , to the view of all honest hearts , and thou art tormented because the freedome i● given for the libertie of tender consciences , to worship God his owne way , even in spirit , and in truth , as in Joh. 4.23.24 . And thou saiest since under the name and priveledge of ●iberty of conscience , licentiousnesse of opinion hath got footi●g , and this thou seemes to Father upon the Magistrats . Wee which are in the light of Christ Jesus , which doth excercise our consciences towards God and man , all opinions and licentiousn●sse we deny . Therefore thy mouth must be stopt , Osl●nderer , which sowet● dissention , for since the Lord hath opened the Magistrates understanding with the light of Christ in them , the same light doth give freedome to the light in others consciences , which worketh into tendernesse of co●science , and teacheth to exercise a good conscience towards God and man ; and such Magistrates do not make a law over the consciences of me● , which , thou seducer and bruitish fellow wouldest have a l●w up●n but the law is against such as thou art , and so thou h●st shewed thy selfe to be in the franticke state , and Heresie which th●u ●alks on , and many such speeches as thou hast in thy Epistle to Sir R●● . Bindl●ss , as thou callest him , and whereas thou speakest of your Church and hope , your hope will perish , and your Church , and all who are in the light will be ashamed of your Church . And thou art he who art of the Devil , who dost promote lies ●nd untruths , which is of thy Fathe● the Devill , Joh. 8. ●4 . But God is coming with his mighty power , to chaine up thee , thy Father the Devill , the old Dragon , who is the Father of lies , and thou art one of his servants who blindeth the understandings of the people , which are in the unbeleife , and seeks to poison their affections , with vanities and lying slanders ; and in thy conclusion thou wouldest not have him to perish with the blind and giddy , but if he follow such as thou art , he doth follow both , and in the ditch both will perish together . And thou speaks to him of walking in the paths of the just and righteous : and such thou privily slanders , and their way hateth thou , who walketh in the steps of the wicked , and with those that forget God : and thou must be cut down with the sword of the almighty God , to that in thy Conscience I speak : when thou art in the terror , remember me , for that in thy conscience condemn thee and witness me . And friend , to the light in thy conscience I speak , under whose name this book goes , there is thy Teacher if thou love it , which is the light of Christ if thou love it , it will teach thee as thou goes up and down ; and shew thee the way of the just , for it is just , it will condemn thee if thou hate . And when the book of conscience is opened , thou shalt witnesse what I speak , that its truth to thy soul . Pr. And whereas thou sayst you do neither pretend to any such sublime and eminent gifts , neither do you , nor ought you to depend upon any such immediate revelation , but do use such ordinary means and helps , which God in his merciful providence hath in all ages afforded his people : viz. by study and industry in the Schools of the Prophets . Schools thou sayest they had at Bethel , 2 King. 2 , 3 , 5. and Elisha's Colledge was so full that they enlarged it . 2 Kings 6 1. 1 Sam. 14.20 . and upon the hill of God , 2 Sam. 10.5.10 . Rep. Here let all these Scriptures witnesse against thee , that thou art no true Prophet , nor Minister of Christ which witnessed the end of the Prophets , and were all taught of God , which thou denies , that denieth immediate revelation from heaven . And here I charge thee in the presence of the living God to be a lyar and false Prophet , and that thou art guided by the father of lyes . Where thou tells of Elisha's Colledge , and saith , that it was so full that it was enlarged , and brings in that place of Scripture to colour over thy lyes , 2 Kings 6.1 . Let that Scripture be a witnesse against thee , that thou art a lyar , and a perverter of the Scriptures , thou full of all subtilties , blush for shame thou lyar , is there any mention of any Colledge there , or is there any mention of the schools of the Prophets where the word of God was studied in those places of Scripture beforementioned , as thou sayest , let them witness thee : All the Prophets where taught of God , and there was no studying for what they spoke at Naioth : see if they did not receive the Spirit of prophecy , and spoke by immediate revelation , which thou denies , and knows not their maner of teaching and learning , 1 Sam. 19.20 to the end of the Chap. and the prophecy came not in the old time by the will of man , but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the holy Ghost , and the Scripture is of no private interpretation , 2 Pet. 1.20 , 21. Here art thou proved a lyar , and a perverter of the Scripture , wresting it to thy own destruction , 2 Pet. 3.16 and the plagues and wrath is due to thee for so doing , Rev. 22 Now call not truth railing thou dissembler and enemy of all righteousness , the Scripture turns edge against thee , and witnesses against thy deceits and filthiness , whereby thou seeks to strangle the truth ; but thou art found out to be among the Dogs , Sorcerers and Lyars spoken of in Scripture , and art shut out of the kingdom of God , & art no Minister of Christ , Rev. 22.15 , 18 , 19. Thou enemy of God , how darest thou say that the Prophets studied the word , when no prophecy came by the will of man , but by the will of God ; and no man knoweth the father but the son , neither knoweth any man the son but the father , and he to whom he is revealed , Matth 11.27 . And here thou deniest both the Father and the Son , and the Prophets and Apostles , that denieth immediate revelation , for they all bear witnesse against thee , and such as thou art : for the Apostle said , Hope to the end , for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ : And all the true Prophets witness that which thou denies . And here I have proved thee a lyar , a false Prophet , and a deceiver , perverting the Scriptures , and they bear witness with me And thou full of all guile and deceit , the word of the Lord shall rise up in judgement against thee , and such as thou art . Something in reply to thy discourse of the Spirit , as thou calls it . FRiend , the Spirit of the living God thou hast not , for thou denies immediate revelation from heaven , who art discoursing of the Spirit , and here thou art made manifest but to be in the pretence of the Spirit , and knows nothing that is revealed with the spirit . For thou that denies immediate revelation from heaven , denies the spirit of the living God : The Apostle said , Eye hath not seen , ear hath not heard , neither hath it entred into the heart of man , the things that God hath prepared for them that love him , but God hath revealed them to us by his spirit , 1 Cor. 2.9 , 10. And here thou that hast denyed immediate revelation from heaven , hast denied the Spirit of God , and manifested thy self to be in the natu●al state : therefore I command thee and charge thee in the presence of the living God to be silent , and to give over deceiving of the people . 2. Thou that denies immediate revelation from heaven , thou denies the grace that was to be brought unto the Saints , whose mindes was to be girded up , which grace was to be brought unto them , at the revelation of Jesus Christ , and this thou hast denied again , as all people may see , 1 Pet. 1.13 . and here thou hast denyed Jesus Christ , and this grace , who denies immediate revelation , and art in the fashion of the world and a blasphemer . 3. Thou that hast denied immediate revelation from heaven , hast denied the Spirit to pray with all , and so all thy prayers is hypocrisie . 4. Thou that hast denied immediate revellation from heaven , hast denied the son of God ; For none knows the father but ths son , and to whom the son reveals him . Mat. 11.27 . 5. And thou that hast denied immediate and miraculous revelation from heaven , hast not denied the son of God only , but the father also : And those that hast not the son of God hath not life . Pr. The power is originally from God , as the fountain , but conveyed through the ministry of man as the conduit . p. 90. Rep. Paul an Apostle not of man , nor by man , but by the will of God ; and here thou art proved to be a seducer , and thy ministry contrary to his ; here thy spirit is tryed . And thou slanders them who hears the voyce of God , and art scorning them , and in a deriding way calls it a deceitful eccho : but we know that God scorns the scornful , and hath them in dirisiin . Pr. For any man to pretend immediate calling from God , without the Ministry of man , is a new Gospel distinct from Christ and his Apostles , and such can be no other then the dictates of seducing spirits and doctrine of Devils . page 91 Rep. Here I take all the children of light to record , to prove ( and try thy spirit ) and Gospel to be of man and whe●her thy Ministry and Gospel , which thou preaches ( which is of man ) be of God : for Paul said , that Gospel which he preached was not of man ; and here again thou art contrary to the Apostle ; and thy spirit is tryed to be a seducing spirit , and thy doctrine to be of the Devil , who denies immediate revelation . Pr. For thou sayest , that which is immediately from God , and without the Ministry of man , is the doctrine of the Devil , and of the seducing spirits . Rep. 〈…〉 Paul , said , the Gospel that he preached received it not of man , but by the revelation of Jesus Christ and here thou art contrary to the Apostle , and thy self in the state thou speaks of . And Paul an Apostle not of man , nor by man , but by God the Father : Thou impudent and enemy of God and blasphemer , wilt thou say his doctrine was of the Devil ? who denyed man , as Gal. 1.1 who said , Paul an Apostle not of man , nor by man . Pr. Therefore there is no need of any such qualifications ; for the best of us dare not stand to such sublime and eminent gifts of the spirit , or to any immediate and extraordinary spiritual gifts . p. 93.94 . Rep. Here thou preachest up that which is not qualified , for we doe believe you , that you dare not stand to such eminent gifts of the spirit , for we have tryed you , and knows your spirits , how can you have the same gifts which denies the son of God , and immediate miraculous revelation , and sayest there is no need of any such qualifications now , therefore doth all your Teachers shew forth your railing and slanders : but these things we wave , for God will give you , you lyars , your portion , who hath not the same knowledge and understanding that the Apostles had , and here thou hast shamed thy mother that is , adulterated from the Apostles life . Pr. Our gifts are from the Spirit of God , though studied for with these means that are outward and moral . Rep. Here I charge thee to be a Lyar in the presence of God ; the gift of God is a free gift , it is not studyed for , nor it is not gotten by Moral , and if it were studied for , and found in outward means , then it were not a free gift : and here thou hast made it manifest , that thou knowst not the gift of God , for it is not him that wills , nor him that runs , but God that shews mercy ; so thou blasphemer , for shame blush . Pr. No man can be wise without the Spirit of wisdom , nor knowing without the Spirit of knowledge , so no man can pray as he ought , without the Spirit of prayer . page 71. Rep. In thy answer to the first quaere thou sayest , you do not attain the same knowledge and understanding of the Gospel , as the Apostles did , then if thou have not the same knowledge and understanding it is all deceit : For in thy own words thou sayest , you cannot pray without the Spirit , and knowledge , a●d understanding ; and thou sayest , you do not attain the same knowledge and understanding the Apostles had , then thou hast not the same Spirit of love to pray withal , and thou sayst you cannot pray without the Spirit : yet thou goes and tells people of a Gospel , and hath not the same knowledge and understanding the Apostles had ; therefore thy knowledge is bruitish , Jer. 10.14 . Psal. 92.6 . Psal. 49.8 . Pr. That we may according to the Catholick faith , worship one God in Trinity . Rep. For these things which thou tells the people of , there is no Scripture as Catholick faith and Trinity , and of three persons . Pr. The second kind of the holy Spirits impressions on humane souls , page 78. Rep. There is no Scripture which speaks of humane souls , for the soul thou knows not , who art a murtherer with thy Deity stuff , who would dit up the way from God , but praises be to the living God , who hath given his sons and daughters eyes to see thee , and all your Deity stuff , which you imitate , who are whoredomed from God , but the Saints of the most high God doth sing ( over it and you ) hallalujah to God , who witnesses their souls redeemed . And there is abundance of stuff in that book which thou calls the discourse of the Spirit , which is not worth mentioning , and abundance of lies and slanders , but them we pass , as knowing the Author of lies from whence they come is for destruction . And in page 95. thou speaks of Timothy studying for his gift . Did he study for his gift , or for the proving of it , and dividing of the word aright ( but he did not study for it ) for the gift of God is a free gift . And in another place thou speaks of the blessing of God being upon your studies : but I say the curse of God is upon your studies , who hath not the same knowledge and understanding that the Apostles had , and so preaches another Gospel· Pr. And most blasphemously to profess and boast of an equality with God , page 66. Rep. Thy boasting is excluded without in thy generation : And thou art excluded from the life and mind of the Apostle , who said , Let the same mind be in you that was also in Christ Jesus , who being in the form of God , thought it no robbery to be equal with God , 2 Phil. 5.6 . And this thou calls blasphemy , and so thou hast shewed what spirit thou art of , contrary to the Apostle . Pr. And for our new Sect of Enthusiasts , had they the Spirit of God as they pretend abiding in them , and speaking in them . Rep. All pretences and sects is denyed where the spirit of God dwells , though with thy generation such was ever called so : And that is thy own who hath made a discourse of the Spirit : and here thou art clearly from them that the Spirit of God spoke in , and did abide in them ; which Spirit of God did ascend into their hearts , which Spirit God hath given to every one to profit withal : and the Spirit of the Father speaketh in you , saith Christ , Math. 10.20 . take no thought : and in many plates thou art speaking of a study , and blessing a study , here thou art contrary to Christ ( who saith take no thought ) and art of the Devil . And here I charge thee to be one of them that Jeremy speaks of , who speaks a vain divination of thine own heart . Pr. As here Angels are Spirits , and the souls of men are Spirits , but God is not a Spirit as they are Spirits . pag. 57. Rep. This is confusion , for Christ saith God is a Spirit , and they that worship him , must worship him in spirit , and there thou art raced out to be without the doctrine of Christ . Pr. 'T is the very ground whereupon this last upstart crew of Quakers , build all their resolutions , and strange fanatick opinions , and heresies , even that which they call the light within us , whereunto we must only give ear . pag. 112. Rep. O thou impudent , God will make thee an example , thou lying spirit , Is the Light which Christ hath enlightned every one withal that comes into the world ( a strange fanatick opinion ) which one he loves it , and the other he hates it , and he that hates it , it is condemnation . Here thou art against Christ and the Apostle , for the Apostle did exhort the Saints to take heed unto the light within them , untill the day dawn and the day-star arise in their hearts . O thou Lyar ! did the Prophet call the true light a deceit of the heart ; or is the light of God a false vision : Christ Jesus which doth enlighten every one that comes into the world , which is witnessed among the Quakers ; and he that walks in the Light shall have the Light of Life , and thou that hates this light speaks a divination of thy own brain , and a lying imagination : and with this light of Christ thou shalt be condemned , thou blasphemer , who calls the light of Christ heresie and fanatick opinions , but here thou doest but fill up the measure of thy Fathers , who calls this light which is Christ in us , Heresie . pag. 113. To all you Readers of his Book , I speak to the Light of of Christ in you , which if you love it , it will bring you to weigh and comprehend his words , and if you walk in it , you shall have the light of life , and you that hate it , it shall be your Condemnation , when the book of Conscience is opened , you shall witness that I speak the truth to every one of your souls . R. Sherlock , thou bids them beware of false Prophets , and saith the tryal of the spirit is the Word of God . Rep. By the Word of God thou art tryed , who art in the conceivings . Again , thou speakest of the High-priests and Pharisees that councelled against Christ to put him to Death . Rep. So do you now , where he is made manifest , shewing your selves to be in the same generation . Pr. It was this spirit also that stirred up Demetrius the Silver-smith , with the rest of the Crafts-men , against St. Paul and his companions , because his profit and gain which he got by making silver shrines for Diana was in danger to be lost . pag. 116. Rep. The same spirit now being made manifest , it cryes against your Trades-men , and Crafts-men , and your Diana , and your two great Schools where you learn your trade , which are puddles of darkness ; and the same spirit being stirred up to crye against your profession , it sets you in an uproar now , as in the Synagogues we do witness . Pr. And the earth opened her mouth and swallowed Corah and all his Company : a fair warning for Lay-persons . pag. 86. Rep. The judgment did not come upon Corah because they was Lay-persons , but it was for gainsaying the truth as thou doest . For many of them that gave forth the Scripture was plain men , Paul a Tent-maker , and most of the Apostles Fishermen , Moses a keeper of She●● , thou mayest call these Lay-men which gave forth the Scripture , who make a trade of their words . And here thou hast shewed that thou hast not the knowledge and understanding which the Apostles had , which thou confessedst thou hadst not , therefore thou art as a bruit beast , and there I leave thee to be condemned with the light which thou callest Heresie . RICHARD HUBBERTHORN . FINIS . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A44844e-320 Acts 33. Rom. 4 11. John 5.3 . Jer. 1.5 , 6 Luk. 1.66.80 . 1 King. 8.46 . Joh. 14.4 . Pro. 20 9. Joh. 18.10 . Eccl. 7.22 . 
A54470	----	Persecvtion inconsistant with Christianity, humane society, and the honor of princes from the testimonies of themselves, and approved authors, and martyrs, herein impartially collected : whereunto is added certain solid reasons why no outward force, nor imposition ought to be used in matters of faith, &c. / by those faithfull witnesses who died under suffering for the testimony of Jesus, viz: Richard Hubberthorn, Samuel Fisher, Francis Howgill. 1670 Approx. 58 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 16 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2003-11 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A54470 Wing P1660 ESTC R4070 12187039 ocm 12187039 55810 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A54470) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 55810) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 872:54) Persecvtion inconsistant with Christianity, humane society, and the honor of princes from the testimonies of themselves, and approved authors, and martyrs, herein impartially collected : whereunto is added certain solid reasons why no outward force, nor imposition ought to be used in matters of faith, &c. / by those faithfull witnesses who died under suffering for the testimony of Jesus, viz: Richard Hubberthorn, Samuel Fisher, Francis Howgill. Crook, John, 1617-1699. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. Fisher, Samuel, 1605-1665. Howgill, Francis, 1618-1669. The third edition. [2], 30, [1] p. s.n.], [London : 1670. Reproduction of original in Huntington Library. Errata: p. [1] at end. Reasons for libery of conscience [p. 22-29] originally published, 1661, with title: Liberty of conscience asserted and several reasons rendred why no outward force nor imposition ought to be used in matters of faith and religion, written by J. Crook, S. Fisher, F. Howgill & R. Huberthorn. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. EEBO-TCP is a partnership between the Universities of Michigan and Oxford and the publisher ProQuest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by ProQuest via their Early English Books Online (EEBO) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). The general aim of EEBO-TCP is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic English-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in EEBO. EEBO-TCP aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the Text Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). The EEBO-TCP project was divided into two phases. The 25,363 texts created during Phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 January 2015. Anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. Users should be aware of the process of creating the TCP texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. Text selection was based on the New Cambridge Bibliography of English Literature (NCBEL). If an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in NCBEL, then their works are eligible for inclusion. Selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. In general, first editions of a works in English were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably Latin and Welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. Image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. Quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in Oxford and Michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet QA standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. After proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. Any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. Understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of TCP data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. Users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a TCP editor. The texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the TEI in Libraries guidelines. Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Liberty of conscience -- Early works to 1800. 2003-06 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2003-06 Aptara Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2003-08 Jonathan Blaney Sampled and proofread 2003-08 Jonathan Blaney Text and markup reviewed and edited 2003-10 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion PERSECVTION Inconsistant With Christianity , Humane Society , and the Honour of PRINCES . FROM The Testimonies of Themselves , and approved Authors , and Martyrs , herein impartially Collected . Whereto is added certain solid Reasons why no outward Force , nor Imposition ought to be used in matters of Faith , &c. By those faithfull Witnesses who died under Suffering for the Testimony of Iesus : viz. Richard Hubberthorn . Sumuel Fisher. Francis Howgill . This being the third Edition of the said Reasons . Now I say unto you , Refrain from these men , and let them alone ; for if this Counsel , or this Work be of men , it will come to nought ; but if it be of God , you cannot overthrow it , lest happily ye be found fighters against God. Acts 5. 38 , 39. Printed in the Year , 1670. The CONTENTS 1. King Charles the Second , his Promises and Declaration for the Liberty of tender Consciences . 2. Some Remarkable Collections out of Doctor Tayer , Chaplain in ordinary to his late Majesty ( so stiled ) his Book , Entituled 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , A Discourse of the Liberty of Prophesying shewing the unreasonableness of prescribing to other Mens Faith ; and the Iniquity of persecuting different Opinions . 3. Instances out of divers Authors , treating on the same subject ; by William Caton deceased . 4. Several Reasons rendred , why no outward Force nor imposition ought to be used in matters of Faith and Religion , by R. H. S. F. and F. H. 5. Several Saying collected from the Speeches and Writings of King James , and King Charles the first . Persecution inconsistant with Christianity , Humane Society , and the Honour of Princes . SECT . I. King Charles the second , his Promises and Declarations for the Liberty of tender Consciences . IN the Kings Letter from Bredah , that was sent to the House of Peers , and read in the House , May the 1st . 1660. and which Letter was ordered by the Lords in Parliament assembled , that it should be forthwith printed and published for the service of the House , and satisfaction of the Kingdoms ; it is said in the Book of Collections of the Kings Speeches , Page 8 , and 9. And because the passion and uncharitableness of the times have produced several Opinions in Religion , by which men are engaged in Parties and Animosities against each other ; which when they shall hereafter unite in a freedom of Conversation , will be composed , or better understood . We do declare a liberty to tender Consciences , and that no man shall be disquieted or called in question for differences in Opinion in matters of Religion , which do not disturb the Peace of the Kingdom ; and that we shall be ready to consent to such an Act of Parliament , as upon Mature deliberation , shall be offered to us for the full granting that Indulgence . And in the Kings Declaration , concering Ecclesiastical Affairs , which was dated October the 25th , 1160. it is said , In a word we do again renew what we have formerly said , in our Declaration from Bredah , for the liberty of tender Consciences , That no man shall be disquieted , or called in question for differences of Opinion in matters of Religion , which do not disturb the Peace of the Kingdom ; and if any have been disturbed in that kind , since our arival here , it hath not proceeded from any direction of ours . And it is said , We do in the first place declare , Our Purpose and Resolution is , and shall be , to promote the Power of Godlines , and to encourage the Exercise of Religion , both in publique and private . And in the same Declaration it is said , our present Consideration and work is , To gratifie the private Consciences of those who are grieved with the use of some Ceremonies , by indulging to , and dispensing with the omitting these Ceremonies . In the Kings Speech to both houses of Parliament , the 8th of July , 1661. It is to put my self in mind , as well as you , That I so often ( I think so often as I come to you ) mention to you my Declaration from Bredah ; And let me put you in mind of another Declaration , published by your selves about the same time , and which I am perswaded made mine the more effectual ; An Honest , Generous , and Christian Declaration , signed by the most eminent Persons , who had been the most eminent Sufferers ; in which you renounced all former Animosities , and memory of former Vnkindnesses . And my Lords and Gentlemen , let it be in no mans power to chargeme , or you , with the breach of our Words or Promises , which can never be a good Ingredient to our future security . And in the Chancellors Speech to both Houses , May the 8th , 1661. It is said , He told you , but now ( meaning the King ) that he vallued himself much , upon keeping his word , upon performing all that he promiseth to his People . And also in the Kings discourse with Richard Hubberthorn , soon after he arrived in England , he said , Well , of this you may be assured , That you shall none of you suffer for your Opinions or Religion , so long as you live peaceably , and you have the Word of a King for it ; and I also have given forth a Declaration to the same purpose , That none shall Wrong you , or Abuse you . And further in the Kings Declaration , dated Decem. 26. 1662. wherein he declares , first , his wonderful Restoration without the least blood-shed by the Military Sword. And he expresseth his Clemency , or the Clemency of his Nature . And he vindicates himself from divers suggestions , of disaffected Persons , particularly from that , of intending to subject Persons and Estates to revenge or spoil , &c. and from intending to introduce a Miliary or Arbitrary way of Government . Also he expresseth these words , as a malicious Scandal ( viz. ) That having made use of such solemn Promises from Bredah , and in several Declarations since , of ease and liberty to tender Consciences , instead of performing any part of them , we have added streighter Fetters then ever . And further adds , viz. We find it as artificially , as maliciously divulged throughout the whole Kingdom , that at the same time we deny a fitting Liberty to those other Sects of our Subjects , whose Consciences will not allow them to conform to the Religion ectablished ; We are highly indulgent to Papists , even to such a degree of countenance as may even endanger the Protestant Religion . These , and such like , in the said Declaration are related as venemous Insinuations , most false and malicious Scandals , wicked and malicious Suggestions , and the Fomenters of them , as the most dangerous Enemies of his Crown and of the Peace and Happiness of the Nation . And these words are further added , ( viz. ) It having been alwayes a constant profession of ours , That we do , and shall ever think our royal dignity and greatness much more happily and securely founded on our own Clemency , and our Subjects Loves , then in their Fears and our Power . To give our People a Testimony of our founding all our security , rather in their affections , then in any Military Power ; the sole strength and security , we shall ever confide in , shall be the hearts and affections of our Subjects indeared and confirmed to us by our Gratious and Steady manner of Government , according to the antient known Laws of the Land , there being not any one of our Subjects , who doth more from his heart abhor ( then we our selves ) all sorts of Military and Arbitrary Rule . As concerning the non performance of our Promises ; we remember well the very words of those from Bredah , ( viz. ) We do declare a liberty to tender Consciences , and that no man shall be disquieted , or called in question for differences of Opinion in matters of Religion , which do not disturb the Peace of the Kingdom ; and that we shall be ready to consent to such an Act of Parliament , as upon Mature deliberation shall be offered to us , for the full granting that Indulgence . We remember well the Confirmations , we have made of them since upon several occasions in Parliament ; and as all these things are still fresh in our memory , so are we still firm in the Resolution of performing them to the full . We do conceive our selves so far engaged , both in honour , and in what we owe to the Peace of our Dominions , which we profess we can never think secure , whilst there shall be a colour left to the disaffected , to inflame the minds of so many Multitudes , upon the scores of Consciences , with dispair of ever obtaining any effect of our Promises for their ease . Such an Act , as in pursuance of our Promises the wisdom of our Parliament shall think fit to offer unto us for the ease of tender Consciences . We profess it would be grievous unto us to consent , to the putting any of our Subjects to death for their Opinions in matter of Religion only . Our expressing according to Christian Charity , Our dislike of Blood-shed for Religion only . Our Parliament is an Assembly so eminent in their Loyalty and their Zeal , for the Peace and Prosperity of our Kingdomes — can no wayes be doubted in the performance of all our Promises , and to the effecting all those gracious intentions , which God knows our heart is full of , for the PLENTY , PROSPERITY , and UNIVERSAL SATISFACTION of the NATION . We think to give them the most important Marks of our care : First , In punishing by severe Laws that Licentiousness and Impiety , which we find to our great grief , hath overspread the Nation . And lastly so to improve the good consequence — to the advancement of trade , that all our Subject finding the advantage — in that prime foundation of plenty , they may all , with minds happily composed by our clemency and indulgence ( instead of taking up thoughts of deserting their professions ) apply themselves comfortably , and with redoubled industry to their several vocations , &c. Also in the Votes and Advice of the House of Commons , Febr. 5. 1662. Upon reading the Kings Declaration and Speech , are these words , ( viz. ) And our hearts are further enlarged in these returns of Thanks-giving when we consider your Majesties most Princely , and Heroick professions of relying upon the affections of your People , AND ABHORING ALL SORTS OF MILITARY AND ARBITRARY RULE , &c. SECT . II. Here follows some remarkable Observations , collected out of a Book , entituled , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , A Discourse of the Liberty of Prophesying ; shewing the unreasonableness of prescribing to other mens Faith , and the Iniquity of persecuting different Opinions ; by Ier. Tayler D. D. ( so stiled ) Chaplin in Ordinary to his late Majesty . IN his Epistle Dedicatory are these words : viz. As contrary as Cruelty is to Mercy , as Tyranny to Charity ; so is War and Bloodshed to the Meekness and Gentleness of Christian Religion . And further speaks , to dispute men into Mercies , Compliances and Tollerations mutual ; and further adds . I designed a Discourse to this purpose , with as much greediness , as if I had thought it possible with my Arguments to have perswaded the rough and hard handed Souldiers to have disbanded presently ; for I had often thought of the Prophesie , that in the Gospel , our Swords should be turned into Plow-shares , and our Spears into Pruning-hooks . I thought it my duty to plead for Peace and Charity , and Forgiveness , and Permissions mutual . Although we must contend earnestly for the Faith , yet this contention must be with Arms fit for the Christian Warfare , the Sword of the Spirit , the Shield of Faith , &c. but not with other Arms ; for a Church-man must not be a Striker , for the Weapons of our Warfare are not Carnal , but Spiritual . I being most of all troubled , that men should be persecuted , and afflicted , for disagreeing in such opinions , which they cannot with sufficient grounds obtrude upon others necessarily , because they cannot propound them infallibly . Considerations ( are to be had ) to the Persons of men , and to the Laws of Charity more then to the trimmphing in any Opinion , &c. If the Persons be Christians in their life , and Christians in their profession ; if they acknowledge the Eternal Son of God for their Master , and the Lord , and live in all relations as becomes Persons making such professions , why then should I hate such Persons whom God loves , and who love God , who are partakers of Christ , and Christ hath a Title to them , who dwell in Christ , and Christ in them , because their understandings have not been brought up like mine , have not had the same Masters , they have not met with the same Books — have not the same Opinions that I have , and do not determine their School Questions to the same sence of my Sect or Interest ? And whatsoever is against the Foundation of Faith or contrary to good Life — or distructive to humane society — is out of the limits of my Question , and doth not pretend to compliance or tolleration . The fault I find and seek to remedy is , That men are so dogmatical and resolute in their Opinions , and impatient of others disagreeing in those things wherein is no sufficient means of Union and Determination , but that men should let Opinions and Problems not be obtruded as Actions , nor Questions in the vast collection of the Systeme of divinity be adopted into the Family of Faith. 3. It s hard to say , that he who would not have men put to death or punished corporally for such things , for which no humane authority is sufficient for Cognizance , or Determination , or competent for infliction ; that he perswades to an indifferency when he refers to another Judicatory , which is competent , sufficient , infallable , just , and highly severe — for God alone must be Judge of these matters , who alone is Master of our Souls , and hath the Dominion over humane understanding — God alone is Judge of erring Persons . I earnestly contend , that another mans Opinion shall be no Rule to mine , and that my Opinion shall be no Snare and Prejudice to my self ; that men use one another so charitably , that no error or violence tempt men to Hypocrisie , this very thing being one of the Arguments I used to perswade Permissions , lest Compulsion introduce Hypocrisie , and make Sincerity troublesom , &c. From the Dictates of holy Scripture , it is observable , that this , with its appendant degrees , I mean , restraint of Prophesying , imposing upon other mens understandings , being Masters of their Consciences , and lording it over their Faith , came in with the retinue and train of Antichrist , as other abuses and corruptions of the Church did , by reason of the iniquity of the times , and the cooling of the first heats of Christianity , and the encrease of interest , and the abatements of Christian simplicity , when the Churches fortune grew better , and her Sons grew worse , and some of her Fathers worst of all : For in the first three hundred Years there was no sign of persecuting any man for his Opinion , though at that time there were very horrid Opinions commenced — and they who used all means — Christian and Spiritual , for their disimprovement and convi●tion , thought not of using corporal force — and therefore I 〈◊〉 not only urge their not doing it , as an Argument of the unlawfulness of such proceeding , but their defying it , and speaking against such practises as unreasonable , and destructive to Christianity , for so Tertullian is express , Humani juris & naturalis potestatis uni cuique quod putaverit colere , sed nec religionis est cogere religionem quae suscipi debet sponte non vi : it s of humane right and natural power for every one to worship what he thinks ; but neither is it the part of Religion to compel Religion , which ought to be undertaken of its own accord . The same is the Doctrine of Cyprian , Lactantius , Hillary , Minutius , Faelix , Sulpitius , Severus , Chrisostom , Hierom , Austin , Damascen , Theophilact , Socrates Scholasticus , and Bernard . All wise Princes till they were over-born with Faction , and solicited by peevish persons , gave Tolleration to differing Sects — But at first there were some heretical persons , that were so impatient , they were the men that first intreated the Emperor to persecute the Catholicks : but till four hundred years after Christ , no Catholick persons , or very few , did provoke the secular Arm , or implore its aid against the Hereticks ; save only that Arrius behaved himself so seditiously and tumultuarily , that the Nicene Fathers procured a temporary Decree for his relegation ; but it was soon taken off , and God left to be his Judge . But as the Ages grew worse , so men grew more cruel and unchristian ; and in the Greek Church Atticus and Nestorius of Constantinople , Theodocius of Synoda , and some few others , who had forgotten the mercies of their great Master , and their own duty , grew implacable , and furious , and impatient of contradiction . It was a bold and arrogant Speech which Nestorius made in his Sermon before Theodotius the younger ; Da mihi , O Emperator , terram ab Haereticis repugnatum & ego tibi vicissim ca●lum dabo ; disperde mecum Haereticos , & ego tecum disperdam Pers●s ; which is in English , O Emperor , give to me the Land purged from Hereticks ; and I , instead thereof , will give thee Heaven : destroy me the Hereticks , and I will destroy with thee the Persians : It was as groundless , as unwarrantable , as it was bloody and inhumane . And we see the contrary events prove truer ; for Theodosius and Valentinian were prosperous Princes , and have the reputation of great piety ; but they were so far from doing what Nestorius had suggested , that they restrained him from his violence and immanity ; and Theodosius did highly commend B. Proclus , for his sweetness of deportment towards erring persons , far above the cruelty of his Predecessor Atticus . And the experience which Christendom hath had in this last age , is Argument enough ▪ That Tolleration of differing Opinions is so far from disturbing the publick peace , or destroying the Interest of Princes , and Common-wealths , that it doth advant●ge the Publick , it secures the Peace , because there is not so much as the Pretence of Religion left to such persons to contend for , it being already indulged to them . When France fought against the Hugonots , the spilling of their own Blood was Argument enough of the imprudence of that way of promoting Religion ; but since she hath given permission to them , &c. The great instance is in the differing Temper , Government , and Success which Margaret of Parma , and the Duke of Alva had ; the clemency of the first had almost distinguished the Flame ; but when she was removed , D. Alva succeeded , and mannaged the matter of Religion with Fire and Sword , he made the Flame so great , that his Religion , and his Prince too , had both been almost turned out of the Countrey ; Pelli●e medio sapientiam quoties vi res agitur , said Ennius , [ Wisdom is driven out , when the matter is acted by force . ] [ And therefore the best of men , and most glorious of Princes , were alwayes ready to give Tolleration . ] Esebeus in his second Book of the life of Constantine , reports these words of the Emperor , Parem cum fidelibus ij qui errant pacis , & quiet is fruitionem gaudentes accipiant : ipsa si quidem communicationis & societatis restitutio ad rectam etiam veritatis viam perducere potest ; nemo cuiquam molestis sit , quisque quod animo destinat hoc etiam faciat ; Let them which err with joy receive the like fruition of Peace and quietness with the faithfull , sith the restoring of communication and society may bring them into the right Way of Truth : Let none give molestation to any ; let every one do as he determines in his mind . And indeed there is great reason for Princes to give Tolleration to disagreeing persons , whose Opinions cannot by fair means be altered ; for if the persons be confident , they will serve God according to their perswasions ; and if they be publickly prohibited , they will privately convene , and then all those inconveniences , and mischiefs , which are Arguments against the permission of Conventicles , are Arguments for the publick permissions of differing Religions , &c. — they being restrained , and made miserable , indears the discontented persons mutuall , and makes more hearty and dangerous confederations . King Iames in his Letters to the States of the Vnited-Provinces , dated Mar. 6. 1613. thus wrot — Ita ut prohibeatis Ministros vestros ne eas disputationes in suggestum aut ad plebem feran●s , ac districte imperetis ut pacem colant se in vicem tolerando in ista opinionum ac sententiarum discrepantia — So that you may sorbid your Ministers , that they bring not those Disputations into the Pulpit , or to the People , and strickly command , that they embrace peace among themselves , by Tollerating in that difference of Opinions , and Iudgments . The Counsel like in the divisions of Germany , at the first Reformation , was thought reasonable by the Emperor Ferdinand , and his excellent Son Maximilian ; for they had observed , That Violence did exasperate , was unblest , unsuccesfull , and unreasonable ; and therefore they made Decrees of Tolleration . And the Duke of Savoy repenting of his War , undertaken for Religion against the Peidmontans , promised them Toleration ; and was as good as his word — As much is done by the nobility of Polonia : so that the best Princes and the best Bishops gave Toleration and Impunities ( but it is known , that the first Persecution of disagreeing Persons was by the Arrians , by Circumcellians , and Donatists , and from them they of the Church took Example , &c. ) And among the Greeks it became a publick and authorized practise , till the question of Images grew hot and high ; for then the Worshippers of Images , having taken their example from the Empress Irene , who put her sons eyes out for making an Edict against Images , began to be as cruel , as they were deceived , especially , being encouraged by the Pope of Rome , who then blew the Coales to some purpose . I may upon this occasion give account of this affair in the Church of Rome . It is remarkable that till the time of Iustinian the Emperor , A. D. 525. the Catholicks and Novatians had Churches indifferently permitted even in Rome it self , but the Bishops of Rome , whose interest was much concerned in it , spoke much against it , and laboured the eradication of the Novatians ; and at last when they got power into their hands they served them accordingly ; but it is observed by Socrates that when the first persecution was made against them at Rome by Pope Innocent the first , at the same instant the Goths invaded Itally , and became Lords of all , it being just in God , &c. And I have heard it observed as a blessing upon S. Austin ( who was so merciful to erring Persons ) as the greatest part of his life — to tolerate them , and never to indure that they should be given over to the secular power to be killed ) that the very night the Vandals set down before his City of Hippo , to besiege it , he died , and went to God ; being taken from the miseries to come . But in the Church of Rome , the Popes were the first Preachers of Force and Violence in matters of Opinion , and that so zealously that Pope Vigilius suffered himself to be imprisoned , and handled roughly by the Emperor Iustinian , rather then he would consent to the restitution and peace of certain disagreeing persons , &c. The first that preached that Doctrine was Dominick , the Founder of the begging Order of Friars : The Friars Preachers , in memory of which the Inquisition is intrusted only to the Fryars of his order ; and if there be any force in Dreams , or truth in Legends , &c. — This very thing might be signified by his mothers Dream , who the night before Dominick was born , dreamed she was brought to bed of a huge Dog , with a Fire-brand in his mouth ; sure enough however his Disciples expound the Dream , it was a better sign that he should prove a Rabid , furious incendiary then any thing else , what ever he might be in the other parts of his life ; in this Doctrine he was not much better , as appears in his deportment towards the Abligences , against whom he so preached — Adeo quidem ut centum hereticorum millia ab octo millibus catholicorum fusa & interfecta fuisse probiantur , saith one of him , and of those who were taken one hundred and eighty were burned to death , because they would not abjure their Doctrine ; this was the the first Example of putting erring Persons to death , that I find in the Romish Church . By this time I hope it will not be thought unreasonable to say , He that teaches mercy to erring Persons teaches indifferency in Religion , unless so many Fathers , and so many Churches , and the best of Emperors , and all the World ( till they were abused by Tyranny , Popery and faction ) did teach indifferency : For I have shewn that Christianity doth not puni●h corporally persons erring Spiritually , but indeed Popery doth . The Donatists , and Circumcelians , and Arrians , and Itaciani , they of old did in the middle Ages ; the Patrons of Images did , and the Papists at this day do , and have done ever since they were taught it by their St Dominick . Let all Errors be as much , and as zealously supprest as may be , but let it be done by such means as are proper instruments of their suppression , by Preaching and Disputation , by Charity and Sweetness , by Holiness of Life , Assiduity of Exhortation , by the Word of God , and Prayer . For these wayes are most natural , most prudent , most peaceable and effectual , only let not men be hasty , in calling every disliked Opinion by the name of Heresie ; and when they have resolved that they will call it so , let them use the erring person like a Brother , not beat him like a Dog , or convince him with a Gibbit , or vex him out of his understanding or perswasion . Thus far Ier. Taylor ; these Passages being truly collected out of his Epistle , where are many more to the same purpose ; to which the Reader is referred for further satisfaction , if he desire it : And further in his Sixteenth Section , for the lawfulness of Princes giving Tolleration to several Religions , he hath these Passages . For it may be safe in diversity of perswasions ; and it is also a part of Christian Religion , that the Liberty of mens Consciences should be preserved in all things , where God hath not set a limit — That the Soul of man should be free , and acknowledge no Master but Jesus Christ. That matters Spiritual should not be restrained by punishments corporal . That the same meekness and Charity should be preserved in the promotion of Christianity , that gave it foundation , and increment , and firmness in its first publication . And that Persons should not more certainly be condemned then their Opinions confuted . And lastly , That the Infirmities of men , and difficulties of things , should be both put in ballance , to make abatement in the diffinitive sentence against mens persons . As Christian Princes must look to the interest of their Government ; so especially must they consider the interests of Christianity , and not call every redargution , or modesty , discovery of an established Error , by the name of the disturbance of the Peace ; For , It is very likely that the peevishness , and impatience of contradiction in the Governors may break the peace . Let them but remember the Gentleness of Christianity ; the Liberty of Consciences which ought to be preserved ; and let them do justice to the persons , whoever they are that are peevish ; provided no mans person be over-born with prejudice : For If it be necessary for all men to subscribe to the present established Religion ; by the same reason , at another time , a man may be bound to subscribe to the contradictory , and so to all Religions in the World. Uncharitableness is much prevented when no person is on either side engaged upon revenge , or troubled with disgrace , or vexed with punishments , by any decretory sentence against him : It was the saying of a wise States-man , ( I mean Thuanus ) Haeretici qui pace data factionibus scinduntur , persecutione uniuntur contra . Remp. If you persecute Hereticks , or Discrepants , they unite themselves as to a common defence if you permit them , they divide themselves upon private interest , and the rather , if this interest was an ingredient of the Opinion . SECT . III. Instances out of divers Authors treating on the same Subject , by William Caton , deceased . CHrisostomus said , It is not the manner of the Children of God to persecute others to death about their Religion ; but it hath been , and is their condition to be put to death themselves for the Testimony of of the Truth . Moreover , ( said he ) the shedding of Blood about Religion , is an evident token of Antichrist , Relig. Vris . pag. 192. Haywardus said , That the best Writers of that time did agree in one opinion , and with Tertulliano , Lactantio , Cassidoro , and Iosephus , &c. That People must inform men to imbrace Religion with Reason , and not compel them by violence . I have for long season determined , said one of the Kings of France , to reform the Church , which without Peace ( said he ) I cannot do , and it is impossible to reform , or convert people by violence . I am King , as a Shepherd , ( said he ) and will not shed the Blood of my Sheep ; but will gather them through the mildness and goodness of a King , and not through the power of Tyranny : And I will give them that are of the reformed Religion right Liberty to live and dwell free , without being examined , perplexed , molested , or compelled to any thing contrary to their Consciences ; for they shall have the free exercise of their Religion , &c. vide Chron. Vande Vnderg 2. deel . pag. 1514. Luther said , That the Hypocrites Church was to be known by its Manners , whose Image and Sign was Esau , yet she boasted of God , and would be accounted his Church , but lived wholly according to the World. Further , ( said he ) the true Church is not defended by a Fleshly Arm , which wicked Bishops especially use , and cry unto . Thesau . pag. 622. Calvin said , That the Apostle gave to understand , That to exercise authority over ones Faith , was in no wise just , nor tollerable : ( yea said he ) It is Tyanny in the Church ; for FAITH ought to be free from all Subjection of men . When several of the Priests in the low Countries requested of the Prince and States , that they would introduce Ordinances and Discipline , according to their Opinions ; but the Prince , and the States , rejected their requests , esteeming them prejudicial both to Religion and Pollicy ; when they observed the diverse Opinions that were among the People , concluding , It was the best way to preserve unity among the People , to give Liberty to all , and to Compel none , Anno 1608. Edict . Fol. 27. Areneus affirmed , That all forcing of Conscience , though it was but a forbiding of the Exercise , which is esteemed by one or another , to be necessary to Salvation , is in no wise right nor fitting : He also affirmed , That through diversities of Religions the Kingdom should not be brought into any disturbance . The Antient Reformed Protestants termed that forcing of Conscience , when they were constrained to leave off the exercise of their Religion , saying , Car nous privant de nostre Religion on nous tiendroit en une continuele mors corporelle & spirituelle ( that is ) For to deprive us of our Religion , is to keep us in a perpetual corporal and spiritual death ; adding thereunto , How that they would rather be put to death then be bereaved of the exercise of their Religion , &c. And also they testified , how that the Religion which was defended with Cruelty , was not grounded upon the Word of God. Lactantius said , If you will with blood , with evil , and with torments , defend the Worship , it shall not thereby be defended but polluted , Lib. 5. Chap. 20. Constantius the Emperor said , That it was enough that he preserved the unity of the FAITH , that he might be excusable before the Judgment Seat of God ; and that he would leave every one to his own understanding , according to the account he will give before the Judgment Seat of Christ : Hereto may we stir up People ( said he ) not compel them , beseech them to come into the unity of the Christians ; but to do VIOLENCE to them , we will not in no wise . Sabast. Frank. Cron. Fol. 127. Augustinus Said , Some disturbed the Peace of the Church while they went about to root out the TARES before the time ; and through this Error of Blindness ( said he ) are they themselves separated , so much the more from being united unto Christ. Retnaldus testified , That he who with Imprisoning and Persecuting seeketh to spread the Gospel , and greaseth his Hands with Blood , shall much rather be looked upon for a wild Hunter , then a Preacher , or a Defender of the Christian Religion . The State of Holland testified , Dat waer vervolginghen Zijn datter daer al in roere is , maer waer geen en sijn al sijdor verscheijden Religion dat dare alle saelren stilder sijn so oelr in onse ijden is bevon den : that is , Where there was Persecution , there was all in disstraction , but where there was none ( though there were several Religions ) there all things were the quieter , as hath been evident in our dayes , said they , Vide Vrede Handel Van. Col. Fol. 53. Calvin Said , That those that are set over us must be obeyed , if that the Command of God be not thereby disobeyed ; but if they lead us from obedience to God , and presumptiously strive against the Lord , then must they not be regarded , said he , to the end that God with his Authority may retain the preheminence . A Book written in French , by N. M. Anno 1576. hath this Sentence in it Those Princes that have ruled by Gentleness and Clemency , added to justice ; and have exercised Moderation and Meekness towards their Subjects , alwayes greatly Prospered , and Reigned long . But on the contrary , those Princes that have been Cruel , Vnjust , Perfidious , and Oppressors of their Subjects , have soon fallen , they and their Estate into danger , or total ruin . Veritus said , Seeing Christ is a LAMB , whom you profess to be your Head and Captain , then it behoveth you to be Sheep , and to use the same WEAPONS , which he made use of ; for he will not be a Shepherd of Wolves , and wild Beasts , but onely of SHEEP ; wherefore if you lose the Nature of Sheep ( said he ) and be changed into Wolves , and wild Beasts , and use fleshly Weapons , then will you exclude your selves out of his Calling ; and forsake his Banner , and then will he not be your Captain . Stephanus King of Poland said , It belongeth not to me to reform the Conscience , I have alwayes gladly given that over to God , which belongeth to him , and so shall I do now ; and also for the future , I will suffer the WEEDS to grow until the time of Harvest ; for I know that the number of Believers are but small , therefore , said he , when some were proceeding in persecution , Ego sum Rex Populorum non Conscientiarum , that is , I am the King of the People , not of their Consciences : he also affirmed , That Religion was not to be planted with FIRE and SWORD , Chron. Van. de Rel. Vrijh . 2. deel . Tindal said , The New Testament of Christ suffered no Law of Compelling , but alone of Perswading , and Exhorting , Fox . Acts and Mon. page 1338. The Prince of Orange testified , Anno 1579. That it was impossible that the Land should be kept in Peace except there was a free Tolleration in the Exercise of Religion . Where hast thou ever read in thy dayes ( said Menno ) in the Writing of the Apostles , that Christ or the Apostles ever cryed out to the Magistrates , for their Power , against them that would not hear their Doctrine , nor obey their Words ? I know certainly , said he , that where the Magistrate shall Banish with the SWORD , there is not the right Knowledge , spiritual Word , nor Church of Christ , it is Invocare Brachium Seculare . It is not Christian like , but Tyrannical , said D. Philipson , to Banish and Persecute People about FAITH and Religion , and they that so do are certainly of the Pharisaical Generation , who resisted the Holy Ghost . Er●smus sad , That though they take our Moneys and Goods , they cannot therefore hurt our Salvation ; they afflict us much with Prisons , but they do not thereby separate us from God , In de Krijdges wrede , Fol. 63. Lucernus said , He that comandeth any thing , wherewith he bindeth the Conscience , this is an Antichrist , Inde Benuse disp . Fol. 71. It was Luther's Opinion , That those that stirred up the Princes to persecute abut Religion , they raised the Uproar , Thesaur . pag. 679. REASONS FOR Liberty of Conscience . SECT . IV. Several Reasons rendred , why no outward Force , nor Imposition , ought to be used in Matters of Faith and Religion , by R. H. S. F. and F. H. LIBERTY of CONSCIENCE ought to be allowed in the dayes of the Gospel , in the free Exercise of it to God-ward ( without Compulsion ) in all things relating to His Worship , for these REASONS following . 1. Because the General and Universal Royal-Law of Christ commands it , Matth. 7. 12. All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you , do ye even so to them : for this is the Law and Prophets — That which every man would have , and receive from another , he ought by Christs RVLE to give and allow it to another . But every man is willing to have the LIBERTY of his OWN CONSCIENCE , therefore ought to ALLOW it to another . 2. Because no man can perswade the Conscience of another , either what God is , or how he should be worshipped , but by the Spirit , which God hath given to instruct man in the Ways of Truth . 3. Because , all Obedience or Service that is obtained by force , is for fear of Wrath , and not from Love , nor for Conscience sake ; and therefore will but continue so long as that fear or force abides upon them . 4. Because , that by forcing , no man can make a Hypocrite to be a true Believer ; but on the contrary , many may be made Hypocrites . 5. Because , that in all forced Impositions upon mens Consciences , there is something of the wrath of man exercised , which works not the Righteousness of God , but rather begets enmity in the heart one towards another . 6. Because , that by forcing any thing upon mens Consciences , as to matters of Faith and Worship , many are hardened in their hearts against the things imposed ; when as otherwise , through Love and gentle Instructions their hearts might be perswaded to willing obedience . 7. Because , that Persecution for Conscience contradicteth Christs Charge , Matth. 13. who bids that the Tares ( or false Worshippers ) be suffered to grow together in the Field ( or World ) till the Harvest ( or End of the World. ) 8. Because , Force is contrary to the end for which it is pretended to be used ( viz. ) The preservation and safety of the Wheat , which End is not answered by Persecution , because the Wheat is in danger to be plucked up thereby , as Christ saith . 9. Because to Force is inconsistant with the belief of the Jews Conversion ( and other false Worshippers ) which is prayed for by the publick Teachers , and cannot be attained , if Persecution for Conscience be prosecuted . 10. Because they that impose upon mens Consciences , exercise Dominion over mens Faith , which the Apostles denied , saying , They had not Dominion over any mans Faith. 11. Because , Imposition upon mens Consciences necessitates them to sin , in yielding a Conformity contrary to their own Faith ; for whatsoever is not of a mans own Faith , is sin . 12. Because , that Imposition and Force wrestles with flesh and blood , and carnal Weapons , which are contrary to the Apostles Doctrine , who said , Our Weapons are not Carnal , but Spiritual , and Mighty through God ; and we wrestle not with Flesh , and Blood. 13. Because , there is but One Iudge , Law-giver , and King in and over the Conscience , as the Saints have testified in the Scriptures of Truth ; and whosoever would intrude , so as to be Judge and Law-giver over the Conscience , intrencheth upon the Perogative of Christ , Isa. 33. 22. Iames 4. 12. 14. Because , it is prophesied in Isa. 11 , The Woolf shall dwell with the Lamb , and the Leopard shall lie down with the Kid , and there shall be no Destroyer in all the Holy Mountain : And therefore no Imposition upon mens Consciences . 15. Because , to impose upon mens Consciences for differences in Faith , is contrary to the Advice of the Apostle , who directs People to wait upon God to be satisfied , and not to the Magistrates , or others , to be forced ; who saith , Whereunto we have attained , let us walk ; and wherein any man is otherwise minded , God shall reveal , even that unto him . 16. Because , to force mens Consciences , and to lay Yoaks upon them , is to make void the Blood-shed and Sufferings of Christ , who sits upon the Throne of the Conscience , and gives liberty there ; and commands us to stand fast in that liberty , and not to be entangled through the Impositions of men , or Yoak of bondage , Gal. 5. 6. 17. Because , in all Nations the different Professions and Perswasions of Religion , are either Friends or Enemies to the Governors ; if Friends then obliged by that bond ; if Enemies then Christ's Command is to take place , who saith , Love your Enemies , which if observed , Persecution for Conscience will be avoided . 18. Because Toleration of different Perswasions in Religion was allowed in the Iewish State , as not inconsistant with their Safety , and that in things contrary each to other , as the Sadduces , Pharisees , Esaeans , Herodians , with others . 19. Because , the true Religion cannot be preached up by force of ARMES , and the primitive Christians detested that Form of Proceedings . 20. Because , no man hath such power ( by outward compulsion ) over the Souls and Consciences of other men , as to lay a necessity on them to believe that which they do not believe , or not to believe what they do believe ; true Faith being the Gift of God. 21. Because , If the Magistrate imposeth upon the Conscience , he must either do it as a Magistrate , or as a Christian . Not as a Magistrate , for then Heathens ( being Magistrates ) have the same power to impose ; and so , by Revolutions , and Conquests , may come to give Laws to Christians , and compel them to Idolatry . 2. Not as Christians , for that contradicts Christ's saying , The Kings of the Gentiles exercise Lordship over them , but it shall not be so among you , for all ye are Brethren . 22. Because ▪ by the same Rule and Reason that the Magistrates of one Nation ought to impose upon , and persecute for Conscience , the Magistrates in all other Nations ought to do the same , and so the greatest part of Mankind may come to be destroyed , there being more that Dissent , than are at Unity in Matters of Faith and Religion . 23. Because the strength of Truth , and its Conquest over Falsity and Deceit is best discovered by letting both have their Liberty , from outward Compulsion ; For no doubt , had outward Force been less used , the prevalency of Truth had been more manifest , and that wise Saying , truly experienced in the World , viz. That which is of God will stand , and that which is not , will come to nothing . 24. Because , the Disciples of Christ are rebuked by him for desiring the Destruction of those that were contrary to him , and would not receive Him ; which zeal is sharply reproved in his Saying , They knew not what Spirit they were of . 25. Because , to impose upon mens Consciences , and to destroy their Persons for difference in Religion , is contrary to the end of Christ's coming , who saith , He came not to Destroy mens Lives but to save them . 26. Because ▪ People of divers Religions in one Nation , if not tollerated , must some of them be destroyed or removed , by banishment ? If destroyed , the Constancy and Patience of the Sufferers for their Faith , moving Pitty and Commiseration , makes men more ready to own , then to reject their Faith ; and so rather multiplies , than lessens the number of its Professors ; if banished , this renders the Banished as so many Enemies abroad , ready upon all occasions to disturb the Peace and Tranquillity of their own native Country . There is therefore in order to the outward welfare of all Nations , a kind of necessity for a Tolleration in them of all Religions . 27. Because , to impose upon mens Consciences begets a hatred against the Imposers in those who are imposed upon , and forced thereby to violate their Consciences towards God , in matters of Worship . 28. Because , men are commanded to be subject to the Powers that are , for Conscience sake , and therefore such Powers ought not to persecute men for Conscience sake , being that is prescribed for the Rule of Obedience , the Scriptures saying , Be ye subject not only for Wrath , but for Conscience sake . SECT . 5. Several Sayings collected from the Speeches , and Writings of King Iames , and King Charles the First . WE find it asserted by King Iames in his Speech to the Parliament , in the year 1609. who said , That it is a pure Rule in Divinity , That God never loves to plant his Church with VIOLENCE and BLOOD ; and furthermore said , It was usually the condition of Christians to be PERSECUTED , but not to PERSECUTE . And we find the same things in substance asserted again , by his Son Charles the First , in his Book known by the Name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , Printed for R. Ro●ston , as followeth . Pag. 67. In his Prayer to God , he said , Thou seest how much Cruelty among Christians is acted , under the colour of Religion ; as if we could not be Christians , unless we crucifie one another . Pag. 28. Make them at length seriously to consider , that nothing violent and injurious can be religious . Pag. 70. Nor is it so proper to hew out religious Reformations by the Sword , as to pollish them by fair and equal Disputations , among those that are most concerned in the Differences , whom , not Force , but Reason ought to convince . Sure in Matters of Religion , those Truths gain most upon mens Judgements and Consciences , which are least urged with Secular Violence , which weakens Truth with Prejudices . Pag. 115. It being an Office , not only of Humanity , rather to use Reason then Force , but also of Christianity to seek Peace , and ensue it . Pag. 91 , 92. In point of true conscientious tenderness , I have often declared , how little I desire my Laws and Scepter should intrench on Gods Soveraignty , which is the only King of mens Consciences . Pag. 123. Nor do I desire any man should be further subjuect unto me , then all of us may be subject unto God. Concerning Oaths . Pag. 76. The injoyning of Oaths , upon People , must needs in things doubtfull be Dangerous , as in things unlawfull Damnable . Some words of Advice from CHARLES the First , to the then Prince of Wales , now King of England , &c. Page 165. My Counsel and Charge to you is , That you seriously consider the former real or objected Miscariages , which might occasion my Troubles , that you may avoid them , &c. Beware of Exasperating any Factions , by the Crosness and Asperity of some mens Passions , Humors , and private Opinions , imployed by you , grounded only upon differences in lesser matters , which are but the Skirts and Suburbs of Religion , wherein a Charitable Connivance , and Christian Tolleration , often Dissipates their strength , when rougher Opposition Fortifies , and puts the despised and oppressed party into such Combinations , as may most enable them to get a full revenge on those they count their Persecutors , who are commonly assisted by that vulgar commisseration , which attends all that are said to suffer under the notion of Religion . Pag. 166. Take heed that outward Circumstances and Formalities of Religion devour not all . Pag. 164. Your Prerogative is best shewed and exercised in remitting , rather then exacting the rigor of the Laws , there being nothing worse then Legal Tyranny . To these Sayings we add more , as Collected out of the same Book in duodecimo . IN his Prayer , page 1. O never suffer me for any reason of State to go against the Reason of Conscience , which is highly to fight against thee , the God of Reason , and Judge of our Consciences . P. 121. Break in sunder , Oh Lord , all violent Confederations to do wickedly and injuriously . Page 136. Thou , Oh Lord , shalt destroy them that speak Lyes ; the Lord will abhor both the Blood-thirsty and Deceitful men . Page 164. Church Affairs should be mannaged neither with Tyranny , Parity , nor Popularity — neither people oppressed . Page 168. He declares his willingness for fair satisfaction unto all , and against Covetousness , and Superstition . Page 171. Oh thou that art the God of Reason and Peace , soften our hearts — and perswade us to accept of Peace with thy self , and both to secure and preserve Peace among our selves , as men and Christians — Condemn us not to our passions , which are destructive both of our selves and others ; Clear up our Understandings to see thy Truth , both in Reason as men , and in Religion as Christians . Page 180. Stir up all Parties Pious Ambitions to overcome each other with Reason , Moderation , and such Self-denial as becomes , &c. Page 200. O thou Soveraign of our Souls , the only Commander of our Consciences . And further , in his Advice to the Prince of Wales now KING , &c. Page 234. The best Government and highest Soveraignity you can attain unto , is , To be subject to God , that the Scepter of his Word , and Spirit may rule in your heart . Page 239. He pleads for better Arguments for Convincement , then Tumults , Armies , and Prisons . Pag. 241. Alwayes keep up sollid Piety , and those Fundamental Truths , which mend both hearts and lives of men with impartial Favour and Justice . Pag. 242. My Charge and Counsel to you is , that as you need no palliations for any design , so that you studdy really to exceed in true and constant Demonstrations of Goodness , Piety and Vertue ( towards the people ) even all these men that make the greatest noise and ostentations of Religion , so you shall neither fear any detection , ( as they do who have but the Mask of Goodness ) nor shall you frustrate the just Expectations of your people . Pag. 243. Use all Princely Arts and Clemency to heal the Wounds , that the Smart of the Cure may not equal the Anguish of the hurt . Pag. 244 ▪ As your quality sets you beyond any Duel with any Subject , so the nobleness of your mind must raise you above the meditating any revenge , or executing your Anger upon the many . Pag. 248. Keep you to true Principles of Piety , Vertue , and Honour ; you shall never want a Kingdom . In his Meditations on Death ; pag. 346 It is indeed a sad fate for any man to have his Enemies to be Accuser , Parties and Judge . Some few Errors and Defects having escaped the Press , the Reader may Correct . Page 9. Line 26. for Actions , read Axioms . p. 11. l. 19. for repugnatum , read repurgatam . l. 20. for Persus , read Persas . p. 12. l. 9. for distinguished , read extinguished . p. 13. l. 12. for counsel like , read like counsel . THE END . 
A86669	----	Something against swearing and concerning the oath of allegiance and supremacy This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A86669 of text R212476 in the English Short Title Catalog (Thomason 669.f.25[56]). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 5 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 1 1-bit group-IV TIFF page image. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A86669 Wing H3233 Thomason 669.f.25[56] ESTC R212476 99871084 99871084 163861 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A86669) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 163861) Images scanned from microfilm: (Thomason Tracts ; 247:669f25[56]) Something against swearing and concerning the oath of allegiance and supremacy Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. Fox, George, d. 1661. 1 sheet ([1] p.) Printed for G.C. at the Black-Spread-Eagle at the west end of Pauls, London : 1660. Signed at end: Richard Hubberthorne. George Fox, the younger. Annotation on Thomason copy: "July. 3." Reproduction of the original in the British Library. eng Oaths -- Biblical teaching -- Early works to 1800. Loyalty oaths -- England -- Early works to 1800. A86669 R212476 (Thomason 669.f.25[56]). civilwar no Something against swearing and concerning the oath of allegiance and supremacy. Hubberthorn, Richard 1660 994 2 0 0 0 0 0 20 C The rate of 20 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the C category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2007-05 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2007-06 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2007-09 Elspeth Healey Sampled and proofread 2007-09 Elspeth Healey Text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion Something against SWEARING And concerning the Oath of ALLEGIANCE And SVPREMACY . AS it was the Disciples Religion principle and practice to obey Christs command as in Matth. 5. 34. But I say unto you swear not at all neither by Heaven for it is Gods throne nor by the Earth for it is his footstool , neither by Jerusalem for it is the City of the great king , neither shalt thou swear by thy head , for thou canst not make one hair white or black but let your yea be yea , and your nay , nay , for whatsoever is more then these cometh of evil , and this being the Apostles Religion and practise , they preached this doctrine unto others as it is written , James 5. 12. But above all things my brethren swear not neither by heaven neither by the earth , neither by any other oath , but let your yea be yea , and your nay , nay , least you fall into condemnation , so this is our doctrine , principle and practise that we cannot swear at all ; by any oath least we fall into condemnation , and so sin against Christ , and if we do suffer or be persecuted , and imprisoned , because we cannot swear . then it is for our Religion , and exercise of our Consciences , and obedience of Truth unto our God in which suffering we shall rather dye then sin against him . And whereas it is required of us to testifie our obedience as subjects unto CHARLES the second , as our lawful King and own his Supremacy and Government in all just and lawful commands , whereupon an oath of Allegiance and Supremacy is tendred . As it is our principle and hath ever been our practise to be obedient subjects under every Power ordained of God , and to every ordinance of man ( set up by him ) for the Lords sake whether unto King as supream , or unto Governors or any set up in Authoritie by him who are for the punishment of evil doers , and for the praise of them that do well , 1 Pet. 2. 13. 14. and unto such we do freely promise obedience unto all just and lawful Commands : And we do own and believe that it is not without but according to the purpose of the Lord , that he hath this Day and Power given him as King head and chief Magistrate over this Nation , that while he hath his Day and Power he may rule for God in civil and outward affairs , and matters relating unto the outward man and estate , in which all his just , and lawful commands we can willingly be subject unto not for wrath but even for conscience sake , and all commands which are otherwise , whether from him , or any other , we shall willingly and patiently suffer under them what men shall be permitted to impose upon us , and thus we do accept and own the King and his Government , as he and it is according to God , and answerable unto him , we are willingly obedient , and in Conscience bound to accept it , and shall yeeld subjection thereunto , but if otherwise contrary to God , he rule in Tyranny , oppression injustce or the like that we must bear witness aginst by the spirit of Truth , but not by outward opposition as rebellion by insurrections plots , or carnal weapons to destroy or overthrow , either him or the Government thereby ; for that is contrary to our life . But as for swearing it being contrary both to Christs Command , and our Consciences as we never have , so we never shall swear , neither for nor against any Man Power or Government but shall be true and faithful , to what we promise and profess . And as concerning the Church of God , and spiritual things relating unto Gods Kingdom , we own onely Jesus Christ as supreme Head , Ruler and Lawgiver there according to James 4. 12. There is one Lawgiver which is able to save and to destroy , and as it is written , Ephes. 1. 22. that God hath given him to be the h●ad over all things to the Church which is his body the fulness of him which filleth all in all , and as the Apostles did hold forth him to be the head of the body the Church , who is the beginning the first born from the dead , that in all things he might have the preemenence Col. 1. 18. And him we do own as Head Ruler and Commander in all matters of Faith obedience and worship in things appertaining unto his king come , and he onely is to rule ( give laws and order ) in the Consciences of men , by his spirit light and power , and as he is the Author of his peoples Faith , so he is the defender of it ; and them in it , and so to him we give the Dominion Rule and Government , as head and supreme over his Church , and not unto man : so in him who is our Life King and Lawgiver we honour all men , and do seek the peace of all men and not the destruction , and unto this we do acknowledge , and bear witness to , who are members of his body which is his Church . London , 23 day 4 mone●h . 1660. Richard Hubberthorne . George Fox , the younger . London , Printed for G. C. at the Black-Spread-Eagle at the west end of Pauls . 1660. 
A75767	----	Davids enemies discovered. VVho of him make songs, but without the Spirit and without understanding, as the drunkard did which he declares of in Psal. 69.12. Or, a true discovery of that custome and forme which the priests of this generation would make an ordinance of, to blind the eyes of the simple, as this priest Clapham: in his 6 arguments, which is here answered, / by us who suffer for the truth, whose names according to the flesh are [brace] Christopher Atkinson. George Whitehead. Also a brief reply unto Frederick Woodall's three principles and resolves; and with replies to his answers, to several queries propounded to him, that to the simple the truth may be cleared, from one who for the captivated seeds sake suffers now in outward bonds in Norwitch Castle, whose name in the flesh is Richard Hubberthorne. Atkinson, Christopher. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A75767 of text R202144 in the English Short Title Catalog (Thomason E830_10). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 52 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 12 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A75767 Wing A4126 Thomason E830_10 ESTC R202144 99862540 99862540 168080 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A75767) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 168080) Images scanned from microfilm: (Thomason Tracts ; 126:E830[10]) Davids enemies discovered. VVho of him make songs, but without the Spirit and without understanding, as the drunkard did which he declares of in Psal. 69.12. Or, a true discovery of that custome and forme which the priests of this generation would make an ordinance of, to blind the eyes of the simple, as this priest Clapham: in his 6 arguments, which is here answered, / by us who suffer for the truth, whose names according to the flesh are [brace] Christopher Atkinson. George Whitehead. Also a brief reply unto Frederick Woodall's three principles and resolves; and with replies to his answers, to several queries propounded to him, that to the simple the truth may be cleared, from one who for the captivated seeds sake suffers now in outward bonds in Norwitch Castle, whose name in the flesh is Richard Hubberthorne. Atkinson, Christopher. Whitehead, George, 1636?-1723. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. [2], 21, [1] p. Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black spread-Eagle at the west end of Pauls., London. : 1655. The words "Christopher Atkinson. George Whitehead." are bracketed together on title page. A reply to: Clapham, Jonathan. A short and full vindication of that sweet and comfortable ordinance, of singing of Psalmes and an unpublished work by Frederick Woodall. Annotation on Thomason copy: "March 15", "1654"; 5 in imprint date crossed out. Reproduction of the original in the British Library. eng Clapham, Jonathan. -- Short and full vindication of that sweet and comfortable ordinance, of singing of Psalmes -- Early works to 1800. Woodall, Frederick, b. 1614. Society of Friends -- Doctrines -- Early works to 1800. Music and morals -- Early works to 1800. A75767 R202144 (Thomason E830_10). civilwar no Davids enemies discovered.: VVho of him make songs, but without the Spirit and without understanding, as the drunkard did which he declares Atkinson, Christopher. 1655 9353 27 0 0 0 0 0 29 C The rate of 29 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the C category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2007-05 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2007-06 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2008-05 John Latta Sampled and proofread 2008-05 John Latta Text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-09 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion DAVIDS Enemies discovered . Who of him make SONGS , but without the Spirit and without understanding , as the Drunkard did which he declares of in Psal. 69. 12. OR , A TRUE DISCOVERY of that Custome and Forme which the PRIESTS of this Generation would make an Ordinance of , to blind the eyes of the simple , as this priest Clapham : in his 6 Arguments , which is here answered , by us who suffer for the Truth , whose names according to the flesh are Christopher Atkinson . George Whitehead . Also a brief REPLY unto Frederick Woodall's three Principles and Resolves ; and with Replies to his Answers , to severall Queries propounded to him , that to the simple the truth may be cleared , from one who for the Captivated seeds sake suffers now in outward bonds in Norwitch Castle , whose name in the flesh is Richard Hubberthorne . LONDON : Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black spread - 〈…〉 West end of Pauls . 1655. A Paper being brought into our hands which was given forth by one of the Priests whose name is Jonathan Clapham , who to uphold his deceit and Imaginations , and carnall observatirns , In imitation from that which the true worshippers which worshipped in spirit and truth without for me or letter witnessed , and spoke forth when redemption they did see , and so were they hid , from such as would make a Custome and a trade upon what they spoke forth , who lived the life of what they sung and spoke , ( in the spirit , ) who lived not in Custome nor in Imitation of others , neither did they boast themselves in another mans Line made ready to their hands , but as they received the spirit so walked they in the spirit , and with it they sang , and by it they spoke , and by the spirit they knew what time it did signifie , and such as was sensuall who had not the spirit but the forme , they denied and witnessed against them , and such now with the same spirit do we witness against , and to clear the truth and lay open the deceit of this generation of Priests , who make a Custome and a trade of Scriptures , who take peoples money for that which is no bread , but for dishonest gain destroyes souls , and keeps poor people in blindness and darkness , by their Inventions and vain Imaginations , that under their Dark Ministry poor people are ever learning , never able to come to the knowledge of the truth , and for their sakes who by these blind guides are led in blindness , Are we moved to answer something to this Priest Clapham's Arguments , as he calles them , that they that never saw , might see his nakedness uncovered , by which Arguments he is going about to maintain , singing of David's conditions a Custome , which are Answered as followeth , &c. SInging of Psalmes was once an Ordinance of God in the Church and a part of divine worship , and ( 1 ) was never repealed under the Gospell , ( 2 ) nor was of a Tipicall nature and use as was the ceremonies , and to cease with them , ( 3 ) but ever reckoned among morrall and perpetuall duties , as prayer , and learning the word , see Psal. 59. 1 , 2 , 6 , 7. ( 4 ) such a duty as the very light in all men taught them to practice , witness the custome of all nations , See Godwin , Rom. Antiqu. and read Homer's himnes , Horaces odes , &c. which sheweth it to be of an universall and perpetuall obligation , therefore it continues an ordinance of God still , as well as prayer and learning the word , and should not be abolished under the Gospel . They who witnesse the Gospell are come , to the ministration of the spirit which is the end of all shadowes , which shadowed forth the life , who came to witness the Church in God , 1 Thes. 1 ▪ and of this church the saints were ordained members , and this church was not a temple made with hands , where once singing was , which was to cease with its worship , and the songs of that temple was to be turned into Howling , Amos 8. 3. but they who are members of the church which is in God they sing with one spirit , being thereunto called by the Lord , which was not morall but spirituall , and they did not bring old Authors to prove their Actions by , as thou doest , but in that they worshipped which was before Authours was , and before Oxford and Cambridge was , which thou and thy generation have your Ministry f●om , and their word and Gospell was not the letter , which thou and thy generation makes a trade upon , and by the same spirit they sang by which the Gospell was preached , and there was no division , and they made not a Custome of other mens conditions , as to get them into rime and meeter and give them forth unto a company of blind people as thou and thy generation do , and their singing was with the spirit , and with understanding , which we owne , but thee we do deny and all thy generation , wo give people Davids conditions to sing in a meeter , where David did mourn and where he was afflicted ye sing , and where he quaked ▪ and trembled , and prayed , and prophesied , these ye sing , & tell God you do so , and here you make a custome like a stage play upon Davids conditions , and scoffs and scornes at them now who witnesse Quaking and trembling , and this we deny for this is both without the spirit and without understanding . The prophesies in Scripture that foretell the state of the Church in the new Testament , do speak of Psalmes to be used , there as a part of Gods worship Psal. 98. 1 , 2. Psal. 100. 1 , 2. Psal. 100. 1 , 2 , 3. where mention is made of the Gentiles , when converted , singng Psalmes to God , Rom. 15. 9. see Isa. 26. 1. and 35. 10. Rev. 14. 5. and 15. 3. The prophesies in scripture that foretell the state of the church , do not prophesie as psalmes to be used as a part of Gods worship , nor such a word there is spoken in them ▪ for the prophesies were fulfilled when the end came , and the church was the life , of that which the prophets prophesied of , which was without spot or wrinckle , and the songs of this church are everlasting , and they who are come thither can sing a new song , for the salvation , which they are witnesses of , Psal. 98. 1 , 2. and they can sing the song of redemption , and the song of Moses , and of the Lamb , which no man can learn , but they that are redeemed from the earth , and they that have the new name , Rev. 14. 3 , 4. and this song can neither thou sing , who art in the earth , and in thy earthly nature , and ministers for the earth and to the earth , in Balaams way , for gifts and rewards , nor them to whom thou gives Davids conditions , who are not brought to see the day of bitterness and lamentation which the saints did witness before they came to see salvation and redemption , for which they praysed God , which salvation and testament , to the end that generation is hid , who live in the wild , prophane , and heady nature , without the fear of God , who are in the time of wantonness and laughter , which wo is unto , Luke 6. 25. and not brought to the time of mourning , and therefore farre from the day of salvation and the saints joy , and there your singing is carnal and for condemnation and out of the true worship . It hath been a duty practised not onely in the times of the law but by the people of God under the Gospell , under the law we have the songs of Moses , Deborah , and Barack , of David the sweet singer of Israel , of Solomon , who composed to the number of 1005 songs , of Asaph , and Heman , and Habakuk , &c. Under the Gospell we read of the songs of many , Simon , Zachary : of Christ and his Apostles singing an Himne , after the Lords supper , Mat. 26. 30. according as was the custome among the Jews , who used to sing some of Davids Psalms the night wherein the passover was eaten , as those who are skilld in their Customes write : we read of Paul and Silas Acts 16. singing in prison , also of the practice of the church of Corinth , 1 Cor. 14. singing Psalms , and in primitive , before Antichristian Appostacy , which was commonly practised , as Phil. Tert. Just . Martin . Chrysost. testifie : yea the very Heathens took notice of this practice and did write of it , Pliny in his letter to Trojan the Emperour writes of the Christian Himnes , Antelucanos , morning psalms , & songs early in the morning , will I praise thee , &c. Neither Moses nor Habbakuk who was servants of God , nor any of the people of God , did ever call singing a custome or practice , neither did they ever give a company of silly blind people other mens conditions , in time and meeter to sing , but though Moses sang , yet he knew the work of the Lord in his deliverance out of Egypt , for which he praysed God , but the work of the Lord is not known to thee , and thy generation , who draw people from the Light of Christ within , and calls it naturall , which doth enlighten every one that comes into the world , and this is that which brings to witness their conditions who spoke forth Scripture ; and this is it which brings to witness salvation and redemption wherein the saints rejoyce , and thou that calls this naturall , doest not know the work of the Lord , nor his redemption , and there thy singing is without understanding , and thou knowes for not what thou sings , nor they that spook the scriptures did never compell a company of poor people who are dead in trespasses and sins to observe duties or outward observations , as thou doest , but saith Christ , my kingdome comes not by observations , but my kingdome is within , Luke 17. 21. neither did ever any of the holy men of God go and hire with a people at such a place and toke such a sum of money of them , for preaching , neither did they go to a company of blind people , and give them Davids conditions to sing in meeter as thou and thy generation do , who say , Let us sing to the praise and glory of God , O Lord I am not pufft in mind , I have no scornfull eye , when thy are pufft in mind and scorns them that are brought to witness Davids and Habbakuks condition , as quaking and trembling , Hab. 3. 16. Psal. 2. 11. Jer. 5. 22. and in scorn calls them Quakers ; and they that sang after the Lords suppers , did not call a little bread and wine the Lords supper or a Sacrament as thou doest , which thou hast no scripture for , and the Lords supper thou art not come to , who act such things , nor the bread of life didst thou ever tast of , but thy singing and prayers and prayses is in the death ; and them thou bids sing to the prayse and glory of God , who are dead in trespasses and sins , when the dead cannot prayse God , but the living , neither can they that go down into the pit prayse him , for praises are not comely in the mouth of the wicked , and there thou art . and Egypt is thy figure , a Land of darknesse where Pharaoh rules , and Moses thou art not come to , and how can thou sing Moses song who art yet in Egypt ? but death rules in thee , which hath passed over all men , from Adam untill Moses : and to maintain thy singing thou brings dead men as Pliny , and other heathens like thy self , who knowes not God nor his worship , but would rest and pervert the scriptures to maintain thee in thy Customs and outward observations , which thou hast no scripture for , and makes a custome and trade of other mens conditions which thou hast nothing to do with , as to cause people to sing lyes , as when David roared they sing , and where he trembled they sing , and where he saith , he watered his couch with tears they sing , and say they do so , and there thou art a leader that causes people to erre . If this suffice not , know there is expresse scripture command as well as examples and prophesies , for this duty of singing of Psalms , and that not only in the old , but also in the new Testament , Ephes. 5. 18 , 19. where the Apostle alluding to the Custome that drunkards have when they are filled with wine , they have their songs , so when Christians are filled with the wine of the spirit they should have their Psalmes Himnes and spirituall songs : the Hebrews had 3 words whereby they divided Davids Psalms , shurim , tehillim , mismorem , to which three words here used by the Apostle , Psalmes , himnes , and spirituall songs , as we see Col. 3. 16. admonishing one another in Psalms , and so James 5. 13. If any be afflicted , let him pray , if any be merry let him sing Psalmes ; it s spoken generally , if any , or whosoever is merry let him sing , not that it is unlawfull to sing at other times , for then it might be inferred it s not lawfull to pray , but when one is sad , mirth is the most prayer season , in other places we read of singing when sad , as David often , and Christ a little before his suffering , when his heart was sorrowfull , and and Silas in prison Paul : Thus you have express command for this duty . The Apostle , nor any of the holy men of God did ever command the world , as thou doest , to sing Psalmes , neither did he ever give the world an example to make rimes of other mens conditions , and sing them in meeter , and though the Apostle saith to the Ephesians , speaking to your selves in Psalmes and Himnes and spirituall songs , singing and making mellody in your hearts to the Lord , and such like to the Colossians , yet this was not to the world , but to the saints and faithfull Brethren , Coll. 1. 2. neither did the Apostle bid the saints sing other mens prayers , and cryes , and complaints , and lamentations , as thou and thy generation do , who bid people sing to the prayse and glory of God , where David said , thine arrows stick fast in me , neither is there any rest in my bones , my wounds stink and are corrupt , I am troubled , I am bowed down greatly , I go mourning all the day long , Psal. 38. and this you have gotten into a rime and meeter , and bids people sing : and there you make a sport of Davids conditions , and makes people say they are so , in which conditions David never sang , but as he found deliverance from under the wrath of God , and when ever did thou or any of thy generation witness these conditions which David passed through , before the seed was brought forth : here thou Priest Clapham hast shut thy self both out of the Scriptures , and them that spoke them forth . And whereas thou saist , that the Apostle alluding to the custome of drunkards ; here again we charge thee Priest ( Clapham ) to be a lyar , ond a wrester of Scriptures , for the Apostle never spoke such a wo●d , as alluding to the Custome of drunkards ; here this thy Comparison is unequall , to compare the saints singing to the Custome of Drunkards , neither did ever the Saints cal● singing a Custome , or make a custome of it , as thou art going about to maintain , and whereas thou art going about to devide the Psalmes , as thou calls them , by these three Hebrew words , into Psalmes , Himnes , and spirituall songs , Here , thou art ignorant both of Psalmes , Himnes , and spirituall Songs , who art going about to divide Psalmes by thy confusion oftongues , and here thou art in Babell which God confounded into many languages , and there is thy ministry in thy confusion and Languages , which a natural man may learn , and there thy singing is in the Custome without the spirit . But they that knew ▪ how to sing with understanding , did sing with that which was before Babell was , and before thy confusion was , and before Sternhold , and Hopkins rimes , which they made of David , which thou practises ; and they that would sing a new song , was redeemed out of kindreds tongues and people , Rev. 5. 9. and this redemnption thou that livest in thy tongues and naturall languages , art not come to ; and the new Song and Himnes thou art ignorant of ; and whereas thou sayest that which James spoke was generally , there thou art a lyar and a wrester of scripture , for the Scriptu●e saith , is any among you affl●cted , let him pray , is any among you merry , let him sing ; but this was to the 12 Tribes , James 1. which he calls his Brethren , and that was among them , and not among thy generation , who live in Formes and Customes , who are strangers to the life of God : and again , thou art going to make the Apostle James a Lyar like thy self , who sayest , that mirth is the most prayer season , when as that Scripture saith , is any among you merry , let him sing ; is any afflicted , let him pray ; which is quite contrary to thy words . As for Paul and Silas singing in prison , their sufferings and imprisonments thou never yet was made partaker of , nor their joy thou never knew wherein it was , who art going about to maintain thy customes in the world , which thou hast no scripture for , but with it art disapproved , and with the the light thou art seen , to be a stranger both to the Saints joy and that wherein they rejoyced . There are severall rules given in the New Testament , directing how to sing aright , as 1 Cor. 14. with the spirit and with understanding , with grace in our hearts Col. 3. which directions were needless if it were no Gospell duty . They that are brought to sing with the Spirit and understanding , they witness that life which spoke forth Scripture , and need not go and get other mens conditions made like ballades or songs , and sing them , or cause any in a custome to sing them , as thou dost in a steeple-house , and these do not call the letter the rule , and the 4 books Mathew , Mark , Luke , and John the New Testament , and Gospell as thou and thy generation do , for Paul said he was a minister of the Gospel , and of the New Testament , and not of the letter , which thou calls the Gospell and New Testament , 2 Cor. 3. 6. and there both out of the Gospell and new Testament thou art shut , and thy Ministery is in the Letter which killeth , and thy Inventions and reasons and consequencies adds to it , and that thou makes a trade upon , and for it thou takes peoples money , and there with the light we read thee in the Scriptures , to be among them the true prophets Christ and his Apostles cryed wo against , such as seek for their gain from their quarter , Isa. 56. and such as are hirelings , Micah 3. and such as are called of men Masters , stands praying in the synagogues , having the chiefest places in the assemblies , and the uppermost rooms at feasts , and the greetings in Markets , which Christ cryed wo against , Mat. 23. and such as go in the way of Cain to envy , and after the errour of Balaam , for gifts and rewards which Peter and Jude cryed wo against , 2 Pet. 2. Jude 11. and there thou art , and thee , thy Ministry , and thy singing we utterly deny , who art both shut out of the Scripture among the greedy doggs , and that life which spoke them forth , and thou seen to be among them , the Scripture witnesses against . And whereas in thy 6th . Argument thou sayest , that Christians may reap much profit or benefit by the right using of this ordinance , there 's an efficacy in it , to lift up the heart more and elevate it in Gods praises , and holy delight it brings to the soul therein , and art telling of mutuall edification and provocation to rejoyce in God , as drunkards by their songs stirre up carnall and sinfull mirth , so these help spirituall joy . They that are Christians do see thy blindness and ignorance both of scriptures and that which spoke it forth , and Christians have not their joy to fetch out of other mens conditions , neither do they go to without , and yet Davids prayers , prayses , prophesies , cryings , tears , wastings , afflictions ; in meeter to sing , to bring delight unto their soul , as thou art going about to maintain , there thou blind guide thou dost not know what it is that rejoyces in God , nor what it is that prayses him , for to thee it is hid , who makes a trade and Custome of a dead Forme , and causes the dead to sing which cannot prayse God , and there in the mutuall and changeable state thou art in thy carnall inventions with Tubal-Cain the Inventor , and outward observations , and edification thou art not come to , who to uphold thy carnall singing and rejoycing doest bring a Comparison of the songs of drunkards , which the saints never did , here thee , thy singing ; thy Joy and thy Ministry are shut out among the drunkards , and seed of evill doers and there is the fruits of thy Ministry , and of that sort are they that uphold thee , and speaks well of thee , as they did thy fathers the false prophets , and among the false prophets and deceivers thou art with the Light seen and Judged , and the same wo which was to them is to thee now , who art found in their stepps . Here ( Priest Clapham ) thy Arguments are answered , and the rest of thy rotten stuff which is not worth mentioning , with them comprehended , and seen with the light to be all acted , in thy filthy reason and Inventions , which are stuffed up with so many lies and wresting Scriptures as thou art here disproved in . So let shame cover thy face , and deceive people no longer with thy dreames and lying divinations , and customes , and outward observations which thou hast no scripture for , which here is plainly laid open to them who are not altogether blind , therefore make no more Merchandise of peole through thy covetousnesse , nor take peoples mony any more to maintain thee in thy deceits and filthiness , but make restitution to them whom thou hast deceived , and led in blindness , and give them their money again , which dishonestly thou hast taken upon them , of whom thou hast made Merchandize : for the sword of the Lord is drawn against thee , and that generation thou art in , and wo and misery is the end of your songs , and your joy , and your profession of God and Christ , who are found acting those things , he and all the holy men of God witnessed against : The day of your trouble and torment and misery is coming upon you , Wo , wo to you pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture , saith the Lord : wo to you hippocrites and dissemblers who are acting in their stepps , the prophets , Christ and his appostles witnessed against , and are filling up the measure of your fathers Iniquities ; ye false prophets , and scribes , and pharisees , therefore stop your mouthes in the dust , and never say you are Ministers of Christ , and his Embassadours , for your bottome and foundation is seen and tryed , and your Customes , traditions , and practises are with the light condemned , and humane is all your worship there , who draw near unto God with your mouthes and lipps , and your hearts farre from him , every ones heart after his own gain and filthy lucre , who teach for doctrines the traditions of men , and there you keep poor people in blindnesse , and makes a prey upon them , and tell them of outward ordinances , and duties , and customes , as this Priest Clapham , wherein he is disapproved in his Arguments , and his folly made manifest , and so shall all yours who are of his generation , who live in pride and covetousness , and act those things ye have no scripture for , who lead captive silly women laden with sins and iniquities , led away with divers lusts , everlearning , never able to come to the knowledge of the truth ; but you shall proceed no further , for your folly shall be made manifest to all men . From us who are sufferers for the testimony of Jesus , whose names according to the flesh is Christopher Atkinson . George Whitehead . Something in answer to the High Priest's Paper , wherein he layes down 3 Principles , and severall Resolves , as he calls them , wherein he goes about to resolve people that the light of Christ in the conscience , and that which doth enlighten every one that comes into the world , which light is Christ , is natural ; and so to resolve them , that Johns testimony of Christ is not true , as it is written in John 1. 9. and doth deny Christs words to be true , who saith , he is the Light of the world , John 8. 12. John 3. 19 , 20 , 21. and in John 12. 46. But in the light of Christ he is seen and comprehended , yea the depth of his subtlety , and confusion , is here unfolded , and his Paper answered from the light of Christ , which he calls naturall ; but by it he is proved to be naturall , and not to discern the things of God , though he pronfesse himself to be a Minister : but here his works are brought to the light , and he by it is proved to be no Minister of Ghrist , but a hater of the light , as John 3. 19 , 20 , 21. The Priests 1 Principle . THere are two Adams from whom all men are , out of whose Loynes all men do come : the 1 Adam is a Fountain of all Naturall good ; the 2 of that which is Spirituall ; and thou brings Scripture to prove it , 1 Cor. 15. 2 , 22. Ephes. 5. 30. Gen. 2. 33. 1 Cor. 15. 45 , 46. Answer . Art thou a teacher in England , and is this the principles of thy doctrine , to teach people that all men come out of the Loynes of the 2 Adams , without distinction , and that the first Adam is the fountain of all naturall good ? here in the presence of the Living God I declare thee and thy principle to be false , for the first man is of the earth earthly ; the second is the Lord from heaven , from whom is the fountain of all good : out of the loyns of the first thou proceeds , but not from the second ; and thy principle proceeds from thy ear●hly wisdome , which is in the fall , and cursed ; and here again thou may read thy principle with shame and confusion of face , and repent before the Lord cut thee off , as a deceiver , who teaches for doctrine thy one conditions . The Priests 2 Principall . In thy second Principall thou speaks of two seeds , and that the first Adam was not the looser of mankind but his seed ; and the 2 Adam was not the restorer of mankind , as so , but as his seed . Answer . I answer , here thou art twining like the serpent , to blind the eyes of people with thy lyes , and doth cross the Scripture , which thou thy selfe brings in the former principle , 1 Cor. 15. 22. which saith , as in Adam all dy , so in Christ shall all be made alive ; and here thou denies Christ to be the restorer of mankind , and here thou art dark and blind , and preaches and writes against the end for which Christ came into the world ; but restauration by Christ we do witnesse and life from the dead , and the seed of the promise we witness , brought out of captivity by Christ , and all who come to witness the same shall deny thee who denies Christ to be the restorer of mankinde . The Priests 3 Principall . In thy third Principall thou sayest , the grace of life none is partaker of but the seed . Answer . Here thou crossest the Scriptures , which saith , the grace of God which brings salvation hath appeared unto all men , and some turn his grace into wantonness , and walke despitefully against the spirit of grace , Titus 2 12. and that is not the seed which turns it into wantonness , and walkes deceitfully against it , for that is the seed which by grace is taught to deny all ungodliness and worldly lusts , but it hath appeared to those who abuse it , as thou dost who put forth these principles , and here thy principles is found lies , as thy Resolves are , which follow thy Principles : The Priests Resolves . Now to resolve people that the light of Christ in the conscience is a naturall light , thou sayest , that the writing upon the heart of Gentiles is not new Covenant written , but old ; so not of grace and Life but nature . Answer . I answer , here thou resolves them falsely , for the workes of the Law being written in their hearts , this is not naturall , which doth bear witness in the conscience , and either accuse or excuse , but is one in the covenant , spoken of in Jer. 31. 33. Heb. 8. 2. and here thou puts in Light for darknesse , and darkness for light . Priest . Again thou speaks of two Images , the Image of God , and Image of Christ , and saith something of the Image of God remains after the fall , and brings Cer. 6. 9. to witness it , when as there is no such thing spoken of there , and thou sayest nothing of the Image of Christ , is found before calling . Answer . Here thou would make God and Christ two images , and so utters forth one lye after another , and denies the Scripture , which saith he , is the express Image of the Father , and thou sayest the first Image is naturall , the second is spirituall , and here let all behold thy blasphemy who would make the Image of God naturall , and the Image of Christ spirituall , and calls them two Images : stop thy mouth , and be ashamed for ever , for being a Teacher , who seeks to resolve people of such things as to deny God and Christ , and make them two Images , the one naturall , and the other spirituall , and saith , something of the image of God is found in man after the fall ▪ but nothing of the Image of Christ ▪ O blinde guide , that ever England should be deceived by such , but the Lord is now making you manifest , and in the light thou art comprehended , and thy subtlety is seen ▪ and thou art now met withall , who hath long blinded the eyes of poor people with thy fained words and subtle pretences , but here thou art discovered to be an enemy to that which in word thou professes , and so thy words will cover thee no longer , for the life hath found thee out ▪ and by it thy spirit is tryed to be the spirit of errour , and voice to be the voice a stranger . Priest . Again thou speaks of a naturall light , and sayes , naturall Light puffs up , and quotes 1 Cor. 8. 1●2 . Answer . Here out of thy own mouth thou art proved to be a perverter of the scriptures , for that scripture saith , knowledge puffs up : but the Scripture speaks of no naturall light . Priest . Again thou sayst , naturall light discovers the blessing of the first Covenant . Answer . This is false , for all the blessings is to the seed which is in the Covenant , and is the Covenant , but nature is out of the Covenant , and out of the blessing of all thy resolves , and light is contrary to nature , for light is spirituall , but thou art naturall , who saith , the light is naturall . Priest . Again thou sayest , naturall light may convince of evill . Answer . This is false , and here thou art a Blasphemer to call Christ naturall , for it is Christ that convinceth the world of sin , and the light which Christ Jesus hath enlighted every one , with all which convinceth them of evill , and thou that sayest this is naturall , did never yet owne that which doth convince of sin , the Light , which will condemn thee who hates it , and calls it naturall ▪ A Reply to the Priests Answers , to the Queries propounded to him . The 1 Querie . How is Christ the light of the world , and how doth he enlighten every one that comes into the world , if it be not in the Conscience ? John 1. 9. Priests Answer . Jesus Christ enlighteneth every man , with the light he hath , he is indeed the enlightening light , and not John : but it will not prove , because Christ quickeneth , that therefore with the same life , or there is no naturall life for Christ : Saints light is the light of life , sinners , not so , not their life . Reply . In the light of Christ thou art seen and comprehended , for thy dark words cannot hide thy confusion , who in thy answer saith , Christ doth enlighten every man that comes into the world , and then would make the light of Christ which enlightens the sinner , not to be the same light which is in the saints , and here all who ownes light in any measure , may see thy confusion , for the light of Christ is but one , and it is through the obedience to the light , in which they come to witness sanctification from sin , which now many do witness to the praise and glory of God , who is their teacher , what hast thou ( Frederick Woodall ) taught the people , all this while ? who art a blind guide , for he that knowes not the light of Christ is blind , for darkness hath blinded his eyes . The 2 Querie . How doth the spirit of Christ guide unto all truth , and shew things to come , if it be not within the conscience . Priests Answer . This endeavours the removall of the Ancient Bonds , making common the priviledges of the Saints , and brings that Scripture , Jer. 24. 7. Reply . This Scripture Jer. 24. 7. shall stand to bear witness against thy self where the Lord saith , I will give them an heart to know me , that I am the Lord , and they shall be my people , and I will be their God ; and the promise of Christ wherein he hath promised the spirit to guide them into all truth , and to shew them things to come , and this thou sayest endeavours the removing of the Ancient bonds ; I answer , It is to remove all such doctrine and such teaching as thine , and the priests of the world under which the seed of God is kept in bondage , and under the chains of darknesse , and these thy bonds which thou layest upon the seed is as Ancient as since the fall , and hath kept people ever learning and never brought them to the knowledge of God , and now when God hath promised to give them an heart to know him without such teachers as thou art , and this is thy torment , but let this tormen thee for ever till thy mouth be stopped , for it is so , we witnesse it . The 3 Query . How doth the spirit of Christ reprove the world of sin , of righteousness , and of judgement , if it be not in thy conscience . Priests Answer . It is not the spirit in the world that reproves the world of sin , John 14. 17. but the spirit in the saints who are to Judge the world , 1 Corinth . 6. 2. the spirit in the saints by the light of truth . Reply . This thy answer , and these Scriptures do witness against thy self , and here thou art made to confess the truth , out of thy own mouth thou may be judged , as all who hate the light are , and here by the spirit of God in the saints and the light of truth art thou judged , and here if thou wilt owne thy own words , owne thy Judgement , for the saints do now judge the world , under which judgement thou art . The 4 Querie . How are the children of God taught of God , if it be not by the light of God in the conscience ? Priests Answer . This is absurd , as the second , this is the strength , you shall be all taught of God . Reply . It is thou that art dark , and blind , and obsurd , who would keep the people from the teachings of God , calling that absurd , that thy own teaching might be continued , and people be kept still in ignorance , and give thee money for such teaching , but the free teachings of God is now appearing , and thine must be denied which is not free . The 5 Querie . How can that be said to be a naturall light which witnesses unto God in that which is holy , and against the naturall Inclinations of fallen man , seing the scripture saith , the naturall man receives not the things of the spirit of God , 1 Cor. 2. 14. Priests Answer . How can it be any other then a naturall light which witnesses unto God in that which is holly ? and against the things of the spirit of God , naturall things it can discern , not spirituall , for as the man so is the light . Reply . Where did thou ever read of a naturall light which did witnesse unto God in that which is holy , and that which did witness unto God , where dost thou prove that ever the same witness which did witness God in holiness did ever witness against the spirit of God , read thy confesion , and let thy mouth be stopped , who speakes of a naturall light , and of a naturall holiness , which neither of them is mentioned in the scripture , nor from any of the ministers of Christ , therefore from them all art thou shut out , who art in a naturall darkness . The 6 Querie . In this Query thou being required to prove how thou dost distinguish of a naturall light , which thou so much speaks of ▪ by their severall operations . Priests Answer . The diversity of operations are answered above . Reply . Here I witness against thee , for thou hast not proved in all that which is above written that there is two lights , naturall , and spirituall , for the light is but one , in which thy confusion is seen and judged . The 7 Querie . How is Christ given a light to the Gentiles who had not the letter , and whether that was not the Light of Christ which shewed the Gentiles the law of God written in their hearts , who had not the law without , and in which they did the things contained in the law , Rom. 2. 14 , 15. Priests Answer . Thou saist this proves not Christ to enlighten the Gentiles . Reply . Thy answer is false , for herein is proved that the obedience of the Gentiles to that which was written in their hearts , in answering the law of God , and his commands , was from that which is invisible , which is the light of Christ ; for that which is naturall is visible , and there thou art in the visible , and in the naturall , where the things of God is not received but stumbled at . The 8 Querie . If it be a naturall light which checks and beares rule in the Conscience , then is not Christ alone Judge in the Conscience , but another ruler is set up before Christ come , 1 John 5. 22. Ephes. 2. 14. Priests Answer . In thy answer thou queries whether the checks was in Adam , from the light , before Christ was revealed , and then again thou sayest in the next words following , that the checks of light from Christ the old Adam had . Reply . Here thou askest a question , and gives the answer thy self , to thy own confusion , and again thou sayest , that the old Adam had a conscience before the new was promised , and that his seed hath so : I answer , Christ which is the light , which checks for sin in the conscience was before Adam was , or the seed of Adam , which was Cain ; of which generation thou and thy ministry is , and the light which is from the second Adam is now appeared to make all such as thou art manifest who are of the seed of the first Adam . The 9 Question . If that which excuseth or accuseth , and so is Judge of the Conscience , be a naturall light , then all Judgement is not given to the Son : but you set up a Jugde in the Conscience before Christ . Priests Answer . This Querie is but the eighth repeated , adding to the number , not to the weight . Reply . This light of Christ being to thee a stumbling block , and thou being ignorant of its checks in the conscience , art able to give no answer to it ; but such as are serviceable to lay open thy weakness and nakedness to all , who shall read thy Answers , or the Replyes unto them . The 10 Querie . If that be a naturall light which excuseth , and so gives peace in the conscience , then you set up a peace before Christ come , and here you deny him to be the Prince of peace , Matthew 2 ▪ 6. Priests Answer . It s intollerable that Christ should be the Prince of peace . Reply . Here let all take notice that thou plainly denies Christ to be the Prince of peace , but it is well that thou hast uttered forth thy folly which hath so long been hid , and here thou speaks plainly thy own condition , for no peace hath ever Christ spoken unto thee , and therefore thou deniest him to be the prince of peace , but him we do witness , to be so , and thee to be among the wicked , whom my God faith there is no peace unto . The 11 Querie . If that be a naturall light which shews the way towards God in the Conscience , and reproves , the untoward wayes , then is not Christ the way to the Father , but you set up another way before him , John 14 ▪ 6. Priests Answer . The sence of this Querie is hidden from me . Reply . Here in the Light thou art comprehended , and thy wisdome shout out , and thy sences darkened , and thou art one of them whom God hath hid these things from , and now stumbles , because thou hates the light which doth discover the way unto God , which light is Christ , who is the way , but is hid from those whose eyes are blinded by the God of the world : if thou hadst confessed this in the beginning of thy Paper , that the sense of all these things which here from the light is spoken is bidden from thee , and so have beed silent , then thy confusion in thy Principles , and in thy Resolves , and in thy Answers had not been so publickly made manifest as they now are , from the light which hath comprehended thee : and hidden the sence of these things from thee . The 12 Querie . If that by which men shall be judged and condemned by any outward teaching from the Letter , or by man , then by what was the Gentiles condemned who had not the Letter , outward teaching , and yet was to perish , nor doing the things contained in the Law , Rom. 2. 13 , 14. Priests answer . In this thy answer thou confessest the Gentiles shall be judged by the Law written in their hearts without the written Law , and before in all which thou hast writ thon hast writ that this was a naturall light which Judges and condemns the disobedient to the righteous law of God , and thou saiest thus saith the Lord by my heart , Scrpture may try every voice . Reply . Thou art the false prophet , which saith , the Lord saith , when as he hath never spoken this unto thy heart , but by the Spirit of the Lord in those whom he hath spoken unto , is thy voice and thy spirit tryed , and as thou sayest would make the Scriptures unnecessary , this is false , for they are of use and necessary to reprove thy deceit , and them we do witness , in the life of the spirit which gave them forth . The 13 Querie . If there be something in the creature naturally which is light , then how is it that the Scripture concludes all to be children of darkness , who are in their naturall estate , and how is Christ said to be light to them that sit in darknesse ? Priests Answer . Light and darkness , naturall light , full of the wisdome of this world , but spirituall darknesse . Reply . How darest thou profess thy self to be a Minister of Christ , and calls the light of Christ naturall , and darkness spirituall , and here let all read thee , to be he which puts darkness for Light , and Light for darkness ▪ The 14 Querie . Whether there be any other thing that convinceth of unbelief , but that which convinceth of sin in the conscience ▪ seing Christ saith , he shall convince the world of sin , because they believe not in him ? John 16. 8 , 9. Ephes. 5. 13 , 14. Priests Answer . The 14th . is the same with the 13th . answered there . Reply . Here let all see whether these 2 Queries be one , and let them read thy answer to them both , which is saying that the light in the conscience is naturall and darkness spirituall . The 15 Querie . Whether do you find any Scripture that speaks of any Light that convinceth the conscience , but the light of Christ with the Law of God written in the heart . Priests Answer . I say , all are not convinced , nor will not , till Christ come , Jud ▪ 15. Reply . Here thou art the Antichrist which denies Christ come in the flesh , and would make people believe that Enocks Prophesie is not yet fulfilled , which Jude did witness to be fulfilled , as Jude 15. and did witness Christ Jesus to be come , who fulfilled the Law and the Prophets ; and John did witness that Christ was come to convince the world of sin , of righteousness , and judgement , and John in his Epistle did write , that he which did not confess Jesus Christ come in the flesh was an Antichrist , and we do witness the same , and there thou may read thy self , 1 John 4. 3. The 16 Querie . Whether it be not the Light of Christ which bears witness in thy conscience against all evil , and if it be not the Light of Christ , then man is not wholly fallen , but there is something in man Good before Christ come . Priests Answer . I say double there was something good in man remaining after the fall . Reply . If so , that something good in man after the fall ; whether is that good naturall , or spirituall , and whether is not that estate of man which is in the fall naturall , and so prove this from the Scripture , what it is that was not lost in mans fall which need no Christ to save : for Christ came to seek and to save that which was lost . And now to thee Frederick Woodall ; Here thy confused Paper is answered in plainness , and art not flattered , for I love not to give flattering Titles to any , neither can I have any mans person in admiration for advantage . From a servant of the Lord , though counted a Deceiver by the generation of Priests , yet true ; whose Name according to the shesh , is RICHARD HUBBERTHORNE , Prisoner of the Lord in Norwich Castle : The 20 day of the 12 Moneth . THE END . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A75767e-200 2 Cor. 10. 13 , 14 , 15 , 16. 2 Tim. 3. ● . Jude 19. Priest . Argument 1. Answer . Priest . Arg. 2. Answer . Priest . Arg. 3. Answer . John 1. 9. Acts 4. 12. 1 Cor. 2. 14. and chap. 1. ●● . Isa. 42. 6. Ephes. 2. 1. 1 Cor. 4. 20. Heb. 11. 36. to the end . Col. 2 14 , 16 , 20 , 21 , 22. Ps●l . 119. 175. Isa. 38. 19. Priest . Arg. 4. Answer . Priest . Arg. 5. Answer . Priest . Argument 6. Answer to the 6th . and last Argument . Luke 6. 26. 1 John 4 , 5. See Isa. 56. 10 , 11. Jer. 5. 31. Micah . 3. 11. Matth. 23. Jude 11. Isa. 29. 13. Col. 2. 14 , 16 , 20 , 21 , 22. 2 Tim. 3. 2● 7 , 9. 
A70289	----	A short answer to a book called The fanatick history published with the approbation of divers orthodox divines (so called) and dedicated to the king by Richard Blome (against the Quakers) : which being examined and tried, is found to be a packet of old lies, many of which was seven years since presented to the Little Parliament, and since to other parliaments and protectors, which by us was answered and confuted in the year 1653 many other lies and false reports is gathered up since by them, which herein is answered and disproved : and herein also is a short relation of the twelve changes of governments which have bin in this nation in those eight years, under all of which we have suffered and been persecuted for that truth, which we yet stand witnesses for, against all its opposers / Richard Hubberthorne ; James Nayler. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A70289 of text R6755 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing H3232). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 64 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 16 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A70289 Wing H3232 ESTC R6755 12623860 ocm 12623860 64605 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A70289) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 64605) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 791:24 or 1532:9) A short answer to a book called The fanatick history published with the approbation of divers orthodox divines (so called) and dedicated to the king by Richard Blome (against the Quakers) : which being examined and tried, is found to be a packet of old lies, many of which was seven years since presented to the Little Parliament, and since to other parliaments and protectors, which by us was answered and confuted in the year 1653 many other lies and false reports is gathered up since by them, which herein is answered and disproved : and herein also is a short relation of the twelve changes of governments which have bin in this nation in those eight years, under all of which we have suffered and been persecuted for that truth, which we yet stand witnesses for, against all its opposers / Richard Hubberthorne ; James Nayler. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. Naylor, James, 1617?-1660. [8], 23 p. Printed for Giles Galvert ..., London : 1660. Date of publication suggested by Wing. Item at reel 1532:9 identified as Wing N317 (number cancelled in Wing 2nd ed.). Reproduction of originals in the Union Theological Seminary Library and Huntington Library. eng Blome, Richard, d. 1705. -- Fanatick history. Society of Friends -- Apologetic works -- Early works to 1800. Great Britain -- History -- Puritan Revolution, 1642-1660 -- Early works to 1800. A70289 R6755 (Wing H3232). civilwar no A short ansvver to a book called the Fanatick history: published with the approbation of divers orthodox divines (so called) and dedicated t Hubberthorn, Richard 1660 12961 109 0 0 0 0 0 84 D The rate of 84 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the D category of texts with between 35 and 100 defects per 10,000 words. 2004-12 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-02 SPi Global Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-03 Mona Logarbo Sampled and proofread 2005-03 Mona Logarbo Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion ANSWER To a Book called the Fanatick History : Published with the Approbation of divers Orthodox Divines ( so called ) and Dedicated to the King by RICHARD BLOME . ( Against the QUAKERS· ) WHICH Being Examined and Tried , is found to be a Packet of Old Lies , many of which was seven years since presented to the Little Parliament : and since to other Parliaments and Protectors : which by us was Answered and Confuted in the Year 1653. many other Lies and false Reports is gathered up since by them : which herein is Answered and Disproved . And herein also is a short Relation of the twelve changes of Governments which have bin in this Nation in those eight yeares , under all of which we have suffered and been persecuted for that Truth , which we yet stand Witnesses for , against all its Opposers . Richard Hubberthorne . James Nayler . Oh England ! In thee are men that carry tales to shed blood , and in the midst of thee have they dealt by oppression with the stranger . In thee have they vexed the fatherlesse and the W●dow , In thee have they taken gi●●● t● shed blood , Ezek. 22. London , Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black-Spread-Eagle at the West-end of Pauls . 1660. In Answer to the Epistle directed to KING CHARLES . FRIEND , THou seems to dedicate thy book of false accusations to King Charles , and would put it upon him ( as matter of his duty ) to be patron thereof , but it is a wisdom in all men , but especially in Rulers , to know what they Father , or take upon them to defend ; in this day when the old lier and murderer is at work in the earth , seeking , and creeping into every severall government to stir them up that are in present power , by false accusations to persecute Gods innocent people , yea , what power hath risen in this age of men , which have not been by flattering titles tempted hereunto , and also overcome , by a sort of teachers and people , which are not children of peace , nor have wrought peace in these nations , or the rulers thereof , but bloud falls , and overturnings , and if King Charles look to be established in peace , and truth , and Righteousness ; which is the anointing of God , then he must not patronize lyes , Prov. 20.12 . Not countenance wickedness and envy , which is the substance of thy book which thou wouldst have defended , and against a harmless people , whom thou wouldst have him suddainly to restrain , and that under pretence of defending Christs faith ; But friend : to restrain people from following the light of Christ in their consciences , and his truth in their inward parts , is not to defend his faith , which faith is a mistery and held in a pure conscience , And they that follow the Lamb are led by his spirit and truth in their inward parts , and this the eternall God of Heaven and Earth requires , and seeks such to worship him , and this to restrain is not the Kings safety , nor the work of his sword , nor are you the friends of his establishment in Gods peace , who would put him upon it , to please your bloudy spirits . But to restrain open ●rofainness , and to be a terrour to evill doers , and to preserve people from the fist of wickedness , and to d●liver the poor and helpless from him that is too strong for him , and to bring judgement into the gates , and make it free for all sorts of people , without respect of persons , or opinions , that the ●vil doer may be punished , and the well doer encouraged , in every corner of the nations , that when God c●me to enquire for innocent blood or oppression , it may not be found , nor violence in the land , This is that which God looks for at the hands of Kings and Rulers , that they bear not the sword in vain , and this you cry not for , by which his authority maybe owned of God , & subjected for conscience sake , but you would have that in the conscience strifled and restrained , and then what is all obedi●nce worth towards God , or men , or Rulers , but to follow any thing that is set up , and be true in heart to nought , and many such spirits will be found in this nation , if ever King Charl●s stand in need to prove them , further then by flattery , and self e●as , as those have f●und that was before him , And whether it will be his wisdom to fall upon the tender Lambs of Christ , and seek to restr●in th●m from following their leader , and so procure his wrath , for pleasing these spirits ; let the wise in heart judge , who have duly observed Gods appearance towards such a work , all along in this age . And whereas thy complaint is , that if his Majesty put not forth his Royall hand and power to restrain us , we are so seducing , that ( in a little time ) we wil defuse our poyson over the better part of his kingd●m , for nought but a Royal Authority can stifle it . I say then , what is become of your spiritual weapons , have not your teachers told people , of the str●ngth of truth , and the power of godlin●ss , have you lost both ( may wisd●m say ) and run you now to the arm of flesh to get errors stifled ( as you call them ) or else your hope is lost , and your faith fails you , did ever any of Christs ministers leave their spirituall weapons , to run to the arm of flesh , or a carnall weapon to stop seducers , I say no , this they never did , but with spiritual weapons , they wrestled and overcame spiritual wickedness , and with that cut down heresies , blasphemi●s , and false worships , and cl●ared the Churches of Christ of them , and drove them down before them in the world , for none could resist the spirit by which they spoke of all the false priests ▪ and false worshipers , but being put to worse , they cryed ( as you say ) to rulers and people , help us or all will be over run for they that turn the world upside down are come hither , ( mind your cry ) and then the rude multitude run as heaps upon them , and made tumults often , and fell upon them with staves , and fists , assaulted the houses , that entertained them as yours do ; and so haled them before rulers , who take their part herein , and put them in prisons , and often whipt them , unless it were some that were so noble as not to heed the cry of their multitudes , but would hear their cause and give leave to speak before they would sentence them that was accused , and this was the nobility of heathen Kings and rulers , and do not you seek to make Englands Rulers worse , least heathens rise up in the day of judgement against them who are called christians and condemn them . And in this your cry for help , against so contemptible a people you ( like silly women ) do but discover your weakness and worthlesness , and if God open the eye of King Charles , he will see it , what have you pr●●ched and wrestled your selves out of all hope and saith , that either suddain help from him , or all is lost and overrun ? Surely it may be said you have been bad watchmen , and idle shepheards , who have lost all if suddain help come not from another hand , now if some had come against you with carnal weapons , then had you had some excuse in crying to the earthly ▪ powers , but in ●hat nothing but spirit comes , against spirit , and yet hath lost the day , this doth clearly manif●st the power of God you have not in you , but have lost the kingdom of the most high , and so are become unreasonable men , who would have two weapons against one , and another to do your work , and yet are unwilling to forego your wages ; yea ; this advantage you have had divers years , but have not prevailed therewith . And whereas then sayst , thy book is of great consequ●nce , an●●o then presum●s to make King Charles the patron of it , and th●n ask●s pardon for thy presumption , when thou hast don● . I say so thou hast n●ed , the substance of thy bo●k , being made up of false acc●●ations , gathered up out of books formerly written against us , which have been disproved by answers several times over , and to these thou hast added som few accusations as false as the old , and spied out the failings of som few , who have mourned before God , that ever they should give occasion to the enemy of God so to blaspheme , And many things which was done and spoken by others who are not of us , nor ever was , and of this is thy book made up , as any may see who reads it , and our severall Answers to the charges therein , many of them of severall years standing , against these false accusations , which have most of them been printed over and over , and presented to the former powers that have risen , and as oft Answered ; so there needed no more to be said then hath been , were it not for the sakes of some who may yet be strangers to your way of dealing towards us , under every power that hath been , now discretion will say , that to make another man the father of such a work to which he is a stranger , ( but especially a King ) is presumption indeed , rashness and folly , and needs a pardon . And whereas you now say , that none but a Royall Authority can stifle ; It s true , you have tryed Parliaments , and Protectors , ( as you called them ) and Parliaments again , and to make them then work for you , your Priests used these arguments to them , ( to wit ) that in the late wars they had exposed lives , liberties , estates and relations , with all personall advantages , in maintaining the just proceedings of Parliament , and from them you then claimed our stiflings , as the price of your p●ayers , purses , hazards , losses , banishment , and blood , as may be read in thy Westmoreland petition against us , which thou hast printed , in Page . 197. and 198. And was not this power , that , which you then called the common enemy in the same petition , Page 200. Which you now cry too , and would put him upon that work against us now , as defender of your faith , &c. Ah! faithless generation you have been , to God and man , may you not shame with this work , to print it and send it to King Charles , and call him to defend it , and patronize it , how hath envy bereaved you of your reasonable senses , shall he who defends this , defend either faith or truth , but this is that you may cover your selves with your shame and envy , that both King , and people , and Parliaments may see what a generation you are , that will run under any power to get your bloody ends , but indeed true to none , for if it was true , that you was so faithful to that Parliament , with your prayers , purses , and blood , as there you plead , then is your faith but new which now you would have defended , but if not true , then how great deceivers , and how little to be trusted , or defended in your crueldesignes . The King that faithfully judges the poor , his throne shall be established for ever . But if a ruler hearken to lyes , all his servants are wicked , Prov. 29.12.14 . And to thee who hath set forth this book of mischief , I say with the Soripture , Lay not wait ( O wicked man ) against the dwelling of the Righteous , spoil not his resting place , f●r a just man falleth seven times , and riseth up again , but the wicked falls into mischief , Prov. 24.15 , 16. J. N. THe day is come that the Scripture is fullfilled which the Lord spake by his Prophet Isaiah●4 . 25 . That he will make the Diviners mad , and that they shall every one be ashamed of his Vision , Zack . 13.4 . Micah 6.7 . the which doth now evidently appear , and their Folly is made manifest unto all that will see and behold it , according to 2 Tim. 3.9 . And is not this manifest Madnesse and Folly in them called Orthodox and Divines , to present unto the King their Packet of lyes , which have been seven years told over , and so long since disproved and confuted , as may be seen in a Book called Sauls Errand , &c. Printed in the year ( 1654. ) and in several other Books since ? It already hath been and i● now manifest unto all men of sober understandings , that these men falsly called Orthodox and Divines , have had no defence , either to vindicate themselves , or disprove the people called Quakers , but this refuge of lyes , which they first presented to the Parliament sitting in ( 52. ) likewise to all other Parliaments which have been since that time , and to the two Protectors , and now to this present King i● directed , and you presumptuously charge him to be the Patron to it , requiring him to defend those lyes which you falsly call the Faith . But this we know , according as it is written , Prov. 29.12 , 19. that If a Ruler hearken to lies , all his Servants are wicked , but a wise King scattereth the wicked and bringeth the Wheel over them . These pretended Divines are such as have bowed and crowched under every appearance of a power , & by Flatteries seem to cleave unto them , that they might uphold , maintain and satisfie their God , which is their Bellies ; these were of them which said that Oliver Cromwell was the light of their Eyes , and the breath of their Nostrils , so that now with shame they might rather confesse that they are blind and dead ( from the light and life of God ) than to multiply lyes in their accustomed manner as formerly . These also were of them that said Oliver Cromwell was Moses , who had led them into a fight of the good Land , and that Richard his Son , was Joshua , which should lead them into the Possession ; but we with many more do see that their Ho●e is false , and their Faith also proved vai● , and that they are not yet in the Land of Promise , for there no lyars comes . And those former Rulers hearkening to their lyes was decei●●d by them , which was the cause of Gods Judgements , and an utter destruction coming upon them , which while they put into the Priests Mouths , they cryed peace unto them , calling them Moses , Aaron , and Joshua , but when they ceased and could not put into their Mouths then cryed out that Moses and Josh●a was Tyrants , and Oppressors , and so will they do unto the King now , who are seeking to cleave unto him by Flattery and Deceipt , which if he denie to be the Patron and Defender of their lies , will crie as much against him , so that he or they are blessed , whose Ears are not open unto their Clamors , but whose Hearts are joyned to the Truth , and who is led by the Spirit of God as their Instructor , for such shall discern Hypocrites and False-hearted men under every pretence of Flattery or Dissimulation , for the Folly of these begins to be manifest unto all men , 2 Tim. 3.9 . Now as in Answer unto the History concerning John Tolderrey , asserted by a company of Priests , as Brooks , Cocking , Goodwin , Jenking , J●comb , Alderrey , Tombs , and Pool , whom themselves say that they have but perused a part , as pag. 99. and yet pretend to witnesse the whole , whose witnesse is disproved and denied by the same John Tolderrey , both by his own Book given forth from him , and by his Life and Conversation , being now a living witnesse , not against , but for the Way , Doctrine , Principle and Practice , which the Quakers do live in , against those lies published abroad concerning him . And as for thy Charge thou hast against J. N. through the everlasting mercy of my God , I have yet a being amongst the living , and breath to answer for my self , though against the intents of many bloody cruel Spirits , who pursued my Soul unto death ( as much as in them lay ) in that day of my calamity , when my Adversarie was above ; And wherein I was made a sign to a back sliding Generatio● , who then would not see nor hear what now is comming upon them , but rejoyced against this piece of Dust , and had little pity towards him that was fallen into their hands , wherein God was just in giving me up for my Disobedience , for a little moment , as a Father to correct , yet should not they have sought to aggravate things against me as thou dost , for it was a day of deep distress , and lay sore upon my Soul , and the pitifull God s●w it , who though he was a little displeased , ye his thoughts was not to cast off for ever , as it is at this day , glory be to his name from my delivered Soul eternally . And in that day there was many Spirits flock'd about me , and some whom while my Candle shone upon my Head , I ever judged , and kept out from me , who then got up and acted , and spoke several things not in the light and truth of God , by which they who sought occasion against me then was strengthned to afflict this Body ; & he that watches for evil in thee and some others , makes use on still against Gods truth and innocent people , whose Mouths the God of my mercy stop , and so finish the trouble of my heart as to that thing , for my Soul hath long dwelt among Lyons , even among them that are set on Fire , whose Teeth are spears and ar●ows , and their Tongues a sharp sword , speaking mischievous things to shed blood . But oh man , or men , what ever you be whose work it is to gather together the failings of Gods people in the time of temptation , or nigh● of their tryal , and aggravate them , and adde thereto the wickedness and mi●chi●vous lyes of your own hearts , as thou hast done in thy Book , and then come out with those against Gods everlasting holy truth it to reproach , I say you are set on work by an evil Spirit , and you do but shew your selves to be enemies to God and his Children : And it is our sorrow that any of us should give such Spirit● occasion to Blaspheme , and it hath been trouble of Soul to all the people of God , that have ever loved righteousness , when they thus have occasioned the Joy of the wicked , or to feed that man that watches for iniquity , and feeds on mischief ; yet know this , you that art of that brood , God will not cast off his people , though he be sometimes provoked to correct them , even before their Adversaries ( which is a sign to them ) yet is his anger but for a moment , and his favour shall return as streams of life , Then shall the food be taken out of the mouth of the Viper , and the prey from between the Teeth of the Devourers , and God shall feed them with their own vomit , & the poyson that hath long lain under their Tongues , shall be bitter in their own Bowels , thus will God certainlie plead with Zions Enemies , as he bends her Sons for himself , and God will make up her breaches ; And this hath my Soul seen , Jacobs Captivitie restored , and the Diggers of the Pit are fallen therein , neither hath he smitten him as he smote them that smote him , Or is he slain according to the slaughter of them that are slain by him , but this is all his fruit to purge away his sin . So he that had long watched for my faltering then got advantage against me , yet had I then power to bear his utmost envie , through Christ Jesus whom I then confessed before men , who then was my support in all and under all , and who is over all , blessed for ever of all who have proved him in the depth . But that which was and is the sorrow of my heart , is the advantage the Enemy then took against the name of Christ , his Truth , and his despised People , in that time of Temptation , which is that which thou art now persuing with hatred and lies , as that I had a Woman in bed with me the night before I suffered at Bristol , when there was six or seven Persons in the Room that night , and a man ( to wit ) Robert Rich in bed with me ; But this and several other false things thou hast written in thy Bo●k , of which I am clear before the Lord , so they touch me not at all , nor shall I here mention them against thee in particular , but to God alone I look , in his time to be cleared fr●m all offences , in his sight , who only knows my heart in this thing , in whose presence I can say , that nothing is more odious and burthensome to my soul , than that any of that glory or wo●ship which belongs to God , or to Christ , should be given to fl●sh and blood , in my self or others ; and how it was with me at that day , many talk of but few knows , so the Judgement of such I bear , desiring that none in Judging me , might have condemned themselves in Gods sight , whose Counsels are a great deep , and the end of his works past finding out , till he himself reveal them , but in the end he will be Justified of all , and in all he doth , that all flesh may be silent before him . And however my self or many others may be left to themselves to be tryed in the night , yea should any utterly fall , or whatever may be act●d by any man or woman that is not Justifiable in Gods sight , yet in vain dost thou , or you , gather up sin , or watch for iniquity , to cast upon the light which condemns it in every enlightened Conscience , and there will clear himself to be no Author nor Actor therein , and I know by the Spirit of Jesus , which I have received , and which worketh in me , that this is not his work , nor his seed , nor in him that loves thy Enemies , thou art not , but the old accuser of the Brethren it is that worketh , strongly in thee , and in the light which thou reproaches , art thou seen to be the man that makes lies , and carries tales to shed blood , Ezek. 22 9.12 . Again concerning the false charge in Chapter the 5. pag. 108. concerning the Quakers in North-wales . That some Quakers had such swellings in their Bodies , shreekings and howlings , that not only frighted the beholders , but caused Dogs to bark , Swine to cry , and the Cattel to run about . Answer , this Charge is altogether false , and not a word of Truth in it , as we who live in North-wales , and have been constant at them meetings do testifie , John ap Iohn , Roger ap Iohn ; and as for William Spencer , that is false also , that any humming or hissing was heard by him , or that any Quaker did lay his H●ad on his Shoulders , or Blow towards his Mouth , as the F●ther of Lyes hath said in the Phanatick History ▪ Page 109. Again also in t●e ●ame Page is another Slander cast upon the Quaker● saying , that in October the 9th 1654. in Durham , a Minister prayed amongst them , his Legs trembling , and that they roared in a strange and hideous manner ; which is false ; for there was no such thing , as many can witness , who was present at the meeting . And in Page 110. several Lies is repeated , without any proof , as that one Bu●nt the Bible : and another appeared in Essex in such a sh●pe , a● c●used them to break up their meetings ; Another concerning James Purnell in Colchester , that when he would have eaten could not ; which is all false , and there is no proof for any of those things , but the false Accusations of our Opposers , as for instance R. B. his Quaeres is brought , ( for a proof to the first , ) as Quaery the 10th . Do not some of you say the Bible ought to be burnt , & c. ? Our Answer is , No , for it ought to be read , believed and fulfilled ; and yet the impudency of those t●at put forth the Phanatique History is not ●shamed to say that we b●rn the Bible , or disswade men from reading it , but all People who are not given up to b●lieve Lies may know to the contrary , and may know that there is no People in the Nation that doth more honour the Scriptures , by living the life of them , and fulfilling that which they speak , than we do , and that shall be our chief Witness against all our Oppose●s and Accusers , whereby they shall be ashamed . Again , whereas several is accused ●s for going naked ; Nakedness is a sit sign for you who are covered with Lie● and Unright●ousness , and as the Prophet Isai●h was called of the Lord to be a● a sign to the Aegyptians and Ethiopians , first in Sackcloath , and then naked and bare foot , and to walk so for three years as a sign and wonder amongst them , Isaiah 20.2 , 3. which things would have been a Subject for those pretended Orthodox Divines to have published Books from , and so to have accused him to be mad , or a Phanatick , or bewitched , as they do accuse some now , which do it in obedience to the Lord , and as signs unto them ; And those that do thus accuse from the ground of enmity , they must be as much uncovered from that Veil of Darkness that is over their , Hearts , before ever they see God , as ever any Quaker wa● naked or uncovered outwardly ; and when that comes to passe , the Scorner will leave his scorning , and the wicked man his way , and turn to the Lord , and will leave reproaching of the Quakers . Again , others are accused for comming into the Church , so called , and for working of Needle-work ; Answer , whether is it better to do the thing which is usefull and lawfull , than for a man to preach for hire in that place , which is a thing which God hath alwaies declared against since that sinfull practise came up , for it is that which in all Ages hath grieved his holy Spirit , and hath b●en testified against by his Prophets , his Son , and his Apostles , as you may read , Isaiah 56.10 , 11. Jer. 5.30 , 31. Mica . 3.11 . Ezek. 34.1 , 2 , 3. John 10.12 . Titus 1.10 , 11. And God is yet bearing his Testimony against all such , both by words and actions , for they that preach for filthy lucre do not serve the Lord Jesus Christ , but their own Bellyes , as the Lord is now plainly making manifest unto many thousands , and will also manifest it more and more , Titus 1.10 , 11. Many other Lyes and false Accusations is gathered up in this Phanatick History , Page 114 , & 115. and no proof for any of them , but that lying Book called Hell broke loose , put forth by Tho. Vnderhill , whom God did manifest his indignation against , for while he was gathering up those Lyes now published in the Phanatick History , before he could perfect his work , God cut him off in his wickedness , and so that Scripture was fulfilled upon him , The wicked shall not live out half his daies , and all those that do succeed him in the same work shall receive the same reward , for God is just , and will reward every man according to his work . Which Lies and Accusations in that Book related is answer●d by Francis Howgill in his Book called , The pits mouth stopped , &c. Another false Slander is charged upon the Quakers , that in September 1659. there was a discoverie of divers Witches in and near Shirebourn in Dorset shire , there being near two hundred of them at one meeting , most of them Quakers and Anabaptists , and that five of them was committed to Dorset shire Gaol , and have confessed , &c. and saith likewise that they did torment , bewitch and destroy Mr. Leyford Minister of Shirebourn , tormenting him with a sharp painfull Disease that he dyed , and that Mr. Bamfield his Successor they forced by their Witchcraft to desert the Town . Answer here thou hast proved the Ministers to be under the power of Witchcraft , and not in the power of God , and so no Ministers of Christ ; for they could not be bewitched but had power over that unclean Spirit , A● they would have , if they were in the power of God . But there was no discoverie of any Witches amongst the Quakers , neither was there ever any of the Quakers that ever did confess or wa● proved to be Witches , for the Quakers is in that life and spirit , which the Devil and Witches have no power over , and therefore it is that the Devil , Witches , False Prophets , Hirelings , and Deceivers is so inraged against us , and so these being but all forged lies , which may be manifestly known to all people which desire to know the Truth , doth prove nothing against us , but doth fulfill the Scripture , which saith , that all manner of evil shall be spoken against us falsly for his names sake , who suffered the like contradiction of Sinners , as we do now , for they said , that he had a devil and did deceive the people ; and unto us the bearing of his reproches is as great Riches , although it be so be called Devils , Witches and Deceivers for his sake : for we have his witness in our selves that we are of God , and that of God in all mens consciences shall bear witnesse unto us . And as for thy saying , That some Quakers killed their mother , following the light within them . It is Answered , That there was such a thing done in Yorkeshire , but that they ever bore the name of Q●akers , is utterly false , as thousands can witnesse but was of your own Generation : Neither doth following the light of Christ within , teach to do any such thing , as thou blasphemously wou●dst reproach it , whose coming is to save life , and not to destroy it : And though he come to make an end of sin , both original and actual , yet it is through his own blood , and not with the blood of others : So thy charge herein is blasphemous and false in this thing , and in divers other particulars which thou mentionest against the Truth and its followers . As concerning the Physician in Lincoln which thou tellest of , and the Maid in London which thou tellest of , and divers other particulars , which are falshoods , grounded upon the enmity of him , who was a Lyer from the beginning , and are not worth the mentioning after thee , neither can any moderate spirit who have any taste of Truth in their own hearts , be easily drawn to believe such things , which have so little face of truth with them , but is apparent fruit of enmitie : And as thou tells of some Quakers dancing , some cursing and swearing , some killing and murthering , and immoderate familiarity with women , and many such things , against which our God hath set us living witnesses both in life and doctrine , as all that knowes us can testifie , so , much need not to be said in our defence as to those accusations , being that our lives preaches the contrary where we come in all parts of the Nation , as it is well known , none dwells with us in the light of Jesus , who act any of these thing , and live in them and repent not , but with you and your hearers these things are found ( who are our Enemies , accusers , and persecuters ) lived in , and justified , by Teachers and people is divers of these things unto this day , against which we are witnesses . An● as for thy saying a Quaker at Dover when he came to die , said he expected Salvation by his own works , and not by Christ ; and thy bringof John Davis a Priest for a witnesse hereto ] To which we say , that John Davis having been asked hereof , seems to deny it : however this we testifie to be our Faith in Christ Jesus , that by him only and through obedience to his works we are justified , and not in our own . And whereas thou accusest some of us for saying to a Priest , Now is our day , and we will have you down . ] To this we say , the day is come in which you are seen , and the fall of Antichrist , but for any such words or intention in us of violence towards you , our hearts are cleer before God , and he that shall either threaten or act so towards you , we deny . And whereas thou accusest E. B. for saying , Give the Priests blood to drink , for they are worthy . It s well known to many , that through the Priests , yea , by their own hands , have several of our bloods been shed , yet did never we attempt to shed any of yours or theirs , nor ever shall do , for it is the whore , and her worship that hath in her the blood of the Saints and Prophets , and all that are slain upon the Earth for the Testimony of Jesus , of whom the Spirit of God hath said , Give her blood to drink , for she is worthy . And we have this testimony in our Conscience towards the most blood-thirsty of you , That we had rather see your repentance , than that Scripture fulfilled upon you ; though these words E. B. might use in obedience to the same Spirit , to those who continue in that spiritual Babylon . ] And for any Quaker , way-laying the Minister of Cowwould ( as thou calls him ) justling him by the way , and drawing his sword half way . We say , This is as false as the rest , and the Minister himself thou mentionest , denies it , and said , If it was spoken concerning him , he would give his hand against it , before Humph : Killingbeck , and Rob. Thornden , who went to him properly about that businesse to enquire it out : And thus thy false accusations returns upon thy own head , to thy shame . As that open falshood concerning William Naylor , brother to James , coming into Savoy Church ( as thou calls it ) and there bellowing and affrighting the people that they ran away , &c. When as Iames Naylor had never a brother , that ever came in London , nor within above fifty miles of it . Oh shamelesse Man ! it is time for thee to conceal thy name , when thou undertakes such a work as is all along in this thy book , wherin is a loathsomnesse to any sober Spi●it to follow thee in thy lies , or read them after thee , so we leave many of them unmentioned in particular , as knowing they need no further answer , but the savor they carry in themselves towards every sober mind that reads them . As for Mary Todd comming into the B●ll and Mouth pulling up her coats , and walking up and down the room , and using base expressions , whilst some of the Quakers were speaking . To this we say , she neither was nor is any Quaker , but a Ranter , who came thither to oppose the Quakers , as many unclean spirits have done , nor was this action done in our Meeting , our Meeting not being that day in that place . So this is like the rest . Again , thou mentionest things which thou callest our Opinions , and thy charge in general is , That let our tenents be never so diametrically opposite to the written verity , yet we will father it upon the Spirit of truth , and will make him the Inspirer of these falsities : and that we make Christ the light within us , to hold out palpable darkness . To which we say , As thy charge is general and signifies little , so it is false , for by the Spirit of Truth and Christ the light within us , do we witnesse the verity fulfilled , and not contradicted , and by the same are we made opposite to the Spirit of darknesse , and all its false worships . And though we may say that the Spirit of Christ is the same that it was , and so not unequal to it self , in whom , or at what time soever it appears , according to the Measure of his appearance , yet is he ever the Spirit of Truth , and not against verity , whether written or spoken , but is the same that leads into a●l Truth , as of himself he bears testimony ; and we must say , that his speaking in his living Temples , is of greater Authority with us and all the living , whom he hath quicked with his appearance , than the reading of the letter was , or is , to them who are without him , being dead in their sinnes , and reprobate in their understandings , through the darkness of their hearts , reading the Scriptures without the Spirit that gave them forth ; and this may answer thy accusation of George Whitehead , and the question that was asked him . And for thy seeking to make us as the Papists ; First , in that the Pope to them is an Infallible Judge ; Secondly , Written traditions equal to the written word . We answer , What is that to us , who deny both the Pope , his infallibility and his traditions , they are none of them binding unto us , look you to that , who have the remainder of that Idolatry yet upon you in several things , which might be instanced : But , blind man , what a Comparison is this of thine ? Is it become an offence to say the Spirit of Christ is infallible , and to confesse him come , who leads into all truth ? Are we Papists in thy account for this ? You have too long made people follow you , while you have been without that Spirit , and little else have you to teach people but traditions , who have not the Infallible Spirit to lead you in your worships and doctrine . And so thy accusation I return upon thy own head . And we can say no lesse of the Spirit of Truth and his word at this day , than the holy Men of God have ever done in whom he hath appeared : to wit , that he is the same , and his power the same , and his word the same , which liveth for ever , and by which we now are armed and strengthned to withstand as great wickednesse , and enlightened to see as great deceit in Teachers and people at this day ( we have cause to believe ) as ever appeared in the World , from which we could not be delivered by our own wisdom , reading or hearing of the letter , till God sent the Spirit of Truth in the name of Jesus into us , to enlighten our understanding in the Scriptures , and against all spiritual wickednesse , and deceitfull worships , to quicken us with his power : so to us he is the power , and to him is the glory and the confession , who liveth for ever , and his dayes waxeth not old , nor his voice feeble , nor his arm short , because many generations passe away before him , and this is he that was before the letter , who can work without the letter , or with it , and this is he whom men that know not have often opposed at his coming , and have been broken for it , though they professed the letter ; and this may answer thy accusation of George Fox , or any other who have spoken any thing in the honor of his Appearance , the power of his world , or the danger of them that oppose it , in this his day , as well as formerly , though we boast not of the fullnesse of our measure herein , that is but thy accusation , And for thy accusation , that we deny the Personal body of Christ , His coming in the Clouds to Judgement , The visible Church , And thy saying we are against Scriptures , and against Ordinances , against Sabbaths , taking no notice of the moralitie of the fourth Commandement , That we say the Doctrine of Original Corruption is a Soul-destroying , God-blaspheming Doctrine , That we are against Justification , and Religiou● Education , &c. These are but thy false accusations , not our Judgement , nor our words , but thou hast gathered the false accusations of the Priest● of New-Castle , and other slanderous Spirits , and this is the ground , proof and foundation of thy Charge , which hath been several times answered , over-turned in the first rising of them , as may be seen in the Answers to The perfect Pharisee , and Sauls Errand , and in a Book called The Pits mouth stopt , by Fran. Howgill , and several other Books to be seen , in which your Folly is made manifest , and what we own , which is according to Scripture , and what we deny , which is your traditions and false worships , never set up by God , nor practised by his people , to which Books we refer the Reader for full satisfaction herein , And also in a book called Love to the Last , by J. N. wherein these things are plainly spoken of , And thou stumbles at the light , as all the children of darkness must do , And thou sayes we are strangely confused , and know not well how to distinguish , &c. We say the confusion is in thy self , and thy dark minde , and not in us , we stumble not who walk in light , but all that walk in darknesse and hates the light must needs stumble as thou dost , but to us is the light known , and him that dwells in it , to whom no mortal eye can approach , blessed for ever , and this is our all , and the Nations of them that are saved must walk in it , & the power that we have in it we know , & the want we have had without it we know , so we speak glorious things of the light , and preach it before all its enemies without amazement , for therein is the arm of God revealed , mighty to save , though many cannot receive our report , but hates it , because their deeds are evil , as thou dost , who calls it a natural Conscience , and then saies , we find Christ called the light , and of him said , that he lighteth every one that cometh into the world ; Is not here the Confusion and Jumble thou tells on , in thy own dark old Bottle , who cannot retain his Testimony , but calls the light of Christ natural , who thy self art the natural man , that receives not the things of the spirit of God , now the testimony that the Scriptures gives of him , who is the light of the world , whom we make our all , as thou saiest ; And for that of perfection . Thou charges us for saying that those that have received Christ and God , are come to perfection , and that all such as are in Christ are without sin . To which we say , yea he that comes to God and Christ , comes to perfection , and to him that is able to save from sin to the uttermost , and he that abides in Christ sins not , as saith the Scritures , Heb. 7.25 . 1 John 3.6 . and this perfection is in Christ , and not of our selves , and so is this freedom also and to him it is given , and confessed , and not to flesh and blood , nor any carnal appearance , But what seed art thou of to whom perfection and sanctification is so offensiv● , which Christ and his Ministers commanded and preached . And as to discerning . Thou accuseth us for saying , That the Saints by the Spirit that is in them can judge mens hearts , and that such judging is Christs judging of them ; and that Christ shall judge no where but in the Saints , and for this accusation thou quotes Naylors Answer to Pendarvis . Wherein thou wrongs Naylor , for he doth not say , that Christ shall judge no where but in the Saints , nor that People may judge mens hearts by every Spirit that is in them : but this we say , that the Spirit of Christ hath given to some discerning of Spirits , and the Spiritual man judgeth all things , as saith the Scripture , 1 Cor. 2.15 . 1 Cor. 12.10 . and this Privilege the Saints had by the Spirit of Christ in them , and the same we witness , every one according to our measure as we have received the same Spirit , 1 Cor. 11 , 12. And thou chargest one Nicholas Kate , to have said , 1. That Mariage was made by man , 2. that Christians were worse than Beasts , 3. that any woman was as free to him as his Wife , 4. that his Wife was no Wife of his , she was a Limb of the Devil , 5. that he was holy , and all things that he touched were holy , 6. that when the fullness of time was come he should work Miracles . To which we say , the man we know not , neither the truth of thy Accusations , for they may be as false of him in these things as thou art found in many other things concerning others ; yet to the first of these we say , that though true Mariage be of God , and that which hath his blessing , yet there be too many Mariages at this day made without God , in the lust ; To the 2d . we say , that there be many who are called Christians , that by nature are worse than Beasts , and b● practise also , though none deserve the name of Christians truly but such as are in Christ Jesus , and being sanctified by his Spirit , such are holie , as saith the Scripture : ●or the rest we leave it , as that which is none of ours . Thou further accuses us for saying , that the Redeemer of man is not that Person , the Son of man that dyed at Jerusalem , but the light which is in everie particular man , &c. To which we say , thy Accusation is false , for we own no other Redeemer but that Person the Son of God , that dyed at Jerusalem , who is the light within us , and the light of the world , as he said of himself , Iohn 8.12 . though this be a mystery to thee , and tha● which has been hid from Ages , even Christ in us the hope of glory , Col. 1. Again , thou accusest us for saying , The Scripture is not the way to find out the knowledge of Christ , but a turning the mind within , &c. To which we say , Christ is the way , the light , and the life , and no man comes to the knowledge of him , but by the Father , Mat. 11.27 . nor to the knowledge of the Father but by him , though men without both may read the Letter , as the Jews did , whom thou tells on , and their searching of the Scripture who for all that , never came to the knowledge of Christ , nor would they come to him that they might have life . So ignorant is flesh and blood of his way , and knowledge , from the Letter ; and therefore we do say , that without first turning to the light and Spirit of Christ , there is no comming to him , nor his knowledge , Luke 10.22 . And for the Blasphemies thou chargest against us ; as first , that we say we are equal with God , as holy , just , and good as God himself ; and this thou sayes was affirmed by George Fox and James Naylor before Witnesses . To which J. N. sayes , thy Charge is utterly false concerning me , who in the presence of God can say , that I never spoke these words secr●t nor open , nor did it ever enter into my heart so to think of my self . It is true George Fox was accused at Lancaster of saying , that he was equal with God ; and to his Answer we refer you for satisfaction , as it is in Sauls errand , Page . 10 , 11. Which answer is in these words , Answ. That was not so spoken , but that he that sanctifieth , and they that are sanctified are of one , and the Saints are all one in the Father and the Son of his Flesh , and of his Bone ; this the Scripture doth witnesse , and ye are the Sons of God , and the Father and the Son are one , and they that are joyned to the Lord are one Spirit , 1 Cor. 6.17 . they that are joyned to an Harlot a●e one fl●sh : But as for saying he was as holy , just and good as God himself , this was never charged upon him . And many other such false charges are laid upon us , which we are not guilty of , and which there is no proof for , from our words or writings , as that we should say , that we are more perfect than Christ , and that Christ is a sinner , and that we should call the Apostles carnal men , with other things of that nature , which wee neither thought , spoke , nor writ , and so these things being disowned and disproved by us , is returned back again to be condemned with the accuser of the brethren from whence they did arise . Again , as concerning the dispute at Cambridge ( which thou mentions in the Fanatick History ) put forth by T. S. that is answered , and his false accusations disproved , by George Whitehead , in a book called , The Key of Knowledge not found in the Vniversity of Cambridge ; which is to be sold at the Black spread-Eagle in Martyns ; And also the false Relation of the disputation at Sandwich is answered , and the truth of it clearly declared . Again , concerning thy relation in the 11. Chapter of the Phanatique History , of the Petition of divers Ministers in Westmerland , &c. the substance of clamors therein expressed , and the charges against G●o . Fox , and Ja. Nailor is fully answered to satisfaction of those that desire to understand the Truth , in a book called Sauls Errand , which is to be sold at the B●ack spread Eagle at the West end of Pauls . And as for thy Narrative of publick proceedings against the Quakers in divers Counties and Cities , and how they were imprisoned without the breach of any Law , and for speaking the word of the Lord as they were moved ; and because they could not swear , and because they were signs against pride ; these things doth all testifie for us , how innocently we have suffered , and how unchristianlike they have been , that have so persecuted us for doing the will of God , in love to their souls who have thus hated us . And our being so hated , persecuted and imprisoned by the Powers that have ruled in this Nation , do plainly shew unto those of understanding , that they have wanted the Spirit of Christ , Love , Meeknesse , Mercyfulness ; and have shewed Cruelty without Mercy , therefore the same measure which they have given unto others , is justly come upon themselves ; and he that would provoke the Magistrates now to persecution , as others that have gone before them , they would bring them into the same Cause of Condemnation , for which the Lord God might justly cut them off , as he hath done others which would not be warned in their day untill their time was no more . A short Relation of the twelve Changes of Government that hath been in England within these 8. years , under all of which we have suffered Persecution . SInce by the Lord we were called , chosen , and separated to be his People , and had unto us committed the word of Reconciliation , and since his eternal Power broke forth and was manifest amongst us , hath he done great things in the Earth ; for he hath prepared his way , and made it plain before the face of all people , by the appearance and testimony of his eternal light in their hearts : which hath not only the●e shined , but is broken forth into a life of Righteousness in many whom the Lord hath accounted worthy to be his Servants in his work , to raise up a seed unto Jacob , and to gather the dispersed of Israel and Juda , ( both Jews and Gentiles ) into the Covenant of Light and Life with the Father , from whence the● are erred by transgression : and for the accomplishing of this Work and Service hath the Lord furnished us with Spiritual Weapons , to war even against Spiritual wickednesse in high places , 2 Cor. 10.4 , 5. And against the Rulers of the Darknesse of ●his world ; Ephes. 6.12 . which hath appeared under many Forms and Governments since the breakings forth of truth in this Nation . Yea many Heads or Governments hath been raised up and cast down again by one Hand and Power : and have all from the Lord ( through his Servants ) had a word of Wisedom and Councel ministred unto them , what they should do that they might be established : which if they did not , the Lord would break them to pieces : which word of the Lord was fulfilled upon them all . And every divers Head had a Horn in it , to push at the Lambs of Christ withall , and at every appearance of his Spirit and Power in his People , but for his Elect sake was their daies shortned , and his breakings and destruction came upon them according to his word spoken to them by his Servants at divers times . And it is to be observed as the Lords doing and ordering by his mighty Power , that with in these eight years , since we have been persecuted and cruelly used for the name and Testimony of Jesus , and the Answer of a pure Conscience , there hath been twelve Changes of Government in this Nation which have all of them more or lesse been guiltie of our Sufferings , either in acting against us , or in suffering others to act cruelly , and not endeavouring to restrain them , when they had power in their hands to do it , and the sufferings laid before them , who suffered for Righteousnesse sake ; so that they could not plead Ignorance , but was left without excuse , which now in the day of their misery and tribulation some of them do consider it when their time is no more . 1. As first in the time of the Long-Parliament , in the year ( 1652. ) although many pretended , some prayed , and some fought for Liberty of Conscience in matters of Religion , and yet at that time were we imprisoned , beat , and persecuted for obeying and worshipping our God in Spirit and Truth , according to his teaching ; and at that time the Priests Rage begun to burn like fire : and they run one unto another , and kindled the wrath in one another against the Truth , even to petition against the spreading of it ( and those that walked in it ) as a dangerous thing ; and they generally with one consent called the Truth , Heresie , Delusion and Blasphemy : and those that ministered it abroad they called Ring-leaders of Sects , as in the Apostles daies there was the like example . But these was warned in their day , not to persecute the Innocent , nor to uphold those that preached for filthy lucre , who served not the Lord Jesus Christ but their own Bellies ; But they hearkned not to the Council of the Lord , but shut their ears against his Instructions : therefore was their day taken from them , and their Power given to another , that they also might be tryed . 2. In the year ( 1653. ) a Council of State was called , by ( O.C. ) but they did nothing to take off the weight of oppression in the Nation , neither in Spiritual nor Civil things , for Pride and the deceiptfulnesse of Riches entred into their hearts , that they did not regard nor set themselves wholly to do that which the Lord did require of them , although they were warned of God in their time , yet the Yoke of the oppressor was not taken away , but under it the Nation groaned , and they wrought no deliverance in the earth . 3. Then the Little Parliament sat in the same year , and there was a plant of Righteousnesse ( tending towards some equity and freedom ) springing up in them , but the strength of deceipt and subtilty in others , did Quench it before it brought forth any thing to perfection , and in that time the Priests fierce persecuting Zeal , was so inflamed , that many Petitions from several parts of the Nation was presented ( against the Quakers ) to the Parliament , and their continual clamor , Petitions and Addresses ( and they being regarded and harkned unto ) was one cause of the continuance of the Nations bondage and oppression , and God never prospered such as received them into their Councils : or gave heed to their reports , but a Curse and Destruction alwaies followed them in their undertakings , whose ear was open unto such things . And in the time of this Power and Government , was persecution continued about Religion , though much was pretended to the contrary ; they also were warned , and wisely counselled in their day , and so was left without excuse . 4. Again in the same year was ( O.C. ) made Protector who had his day , and power in his hand to have done good , and to have done that which he and others pretended , but he joyning with the covetous Priests and their Interests , to make his arm strong , thereby betrayed the Lord and his People , into the hands of sinners . And insteed of removing Persecution , he caused new Acts to be made to Persecute by , and so brought a Curse upon himself , and Family , and Tribulation upon those that trusted in him : And the Lord did often visit him with reproofs and instructions , untill he hardened his heart against all reproof , and then was he given up of the Lord , and of his People , to his appointed end , as an Example to all Hypoc●ites and Treacherous ones . 5. Again his second Parliament was called , and sat in the year 1654. in their daies was not the Land eased , nor freed from its bondage , and when they had let in the Priests Spirit , and was insensed against the Truth , and intending to make Laws to Persecute , then were they broken , and their power taken from them , who in their day was warned , but did not the thing which the Lord required of them . 6. Oliver's 3d. Parliament , which consisted of two Houses , sat in the year 1657. they more than any of the rest , did draw back into that which they had declared against , and they let in the P●iests Persecuting Spirit , and made Laws for Persecution , and many were Imprisoned in the time of their Government , because for Conscience sake they could not pay Tithes to the Hireling Priests , and because they could not Swear , contrary to Christs command , Mat. 5. And they had many warnings and admonitions from the Lord , which they rejected , and so the Lord rejected them , as from doing his work . 7. Then Richard Cromwell in the year 1658. was made Protector , whom the Priests flockt to , as their Rock of defence , that he as their Joshua might lead them into their promised Land , which was but a Benefice of Tithes or Augmentations , their prayed for Inheritance ; and they told him that the Gospel was bound up in him , and so did cleave unto him by Flatteries , as they did unto all the rest before him for their own ends , but the suffering seed of God , which could not Flatter him was not set free : who freely declared unto him the word of the Lord , and instructions from the Almighty before his day was over . 8. And again his Parliament sate in the year ( 1659. ) they continued and did not free the Sufferers , and imprisoned ones , who suffered only for the worship of their God , and for the exercise of a good Conscience ; but they went on swiftly in the way of their destruction , to impose Worships upon People , and to decree unrighteous Decrees : and upon that Rock of Religion , they were broken as others had been before them , though they were exhorted to righteousness , and told of the evil that did come upon them . 9. The 9th . Government was again the Long-Parliament , who came in with great Pretences , and Resolutions , and Protestations to make this Nation a Free-Commonwealth , not only in name but in nature ; And they begun well , and to call the Prisoners up to London who suffered for Conscience sake , and freed some of them : and many of them intended to take away that great Oppression of Tithes , whereby much deceipt , and many Deceivers are held up in the Nation : and then the Priests rage was kindled against them , and they cursed them in their Pulpits , and preached up war against them , and themselves get Horses , Pistols and Swords to fight for their Tithes and Maintenance : and when they were routed , then they again petitioned the Parliament , some begging pardon , and some pleading not guilty : and the Parliament was so blind , that upon their Dissimulation they let in the Priests again ; and begun to gratifie the Priests , and establish Tithes ; and then the wrath of God broke forth against them , and their Destruction was prophecyed of , and told them that it should shortly come upon them , as it came to passe : because they would not receive the Lords Counsel in their day . 10. Then the Armie and Committee of Safety ( so called ) had the Power and Government in their hands , which they did not improve as they might have done for the liberty of the Subjects : neither did they receive that counsel from the Lord which would have opened their understandings how to have ruled for him , but with corrupt reasonings among themselves perverted one another , and confounded their own work , reasoning out the good and honest intentions of some that was amongst them , untill they all became as a heap of Confusion , and their work broken to pieces . A just reward of their own devices , and following the counsels of their own hearts ; neglecting the Advice of that Spirit of righteousnesse which should have led and also established them in the work of the Lord in the Nation : so as unworthy and disobedient were they cast out . 11. Then again the Long-Parliament had another day of Tryal given them into their hands , but a mad Zeal and Fury attended them , against the honest and upright-hearted people ; and the Fury of the Oppressor was highly exalted amongst them , bu●ning like Fire , in which they could not contain themselves , nor possess their own Spirits in quietness ; in which Fury was Folly : the effects of which did betray and destroy both themselves and others . They being diverted from their first intentions , and desire after righteousness : a just recompence of reward for their Disobedience came upon them , according to many true Testimonies from the Lords Servants unto them ; which if in time their Ears had been open to the Lords instructions , and their Hearts inclined to righteousness , that swift and sudden destruction had not so soon come upon them : but they being blinded with Fury in their anger , would neither hear nor see , that which was the effect of their own work , nor the Lords hand of Justice near come upon them ; as now they may consider it . 12. The Secluded Members then came in as a rod of Gods anger , and of Justice , or a prey upon them ; and it was manifest to the seeing Eye that God had tu●ned his hand against all those which had abused his Power , and neglected his work , who had sought and set up themselves , instead of the Lord and his righteousness : and now when the Lords hand is justly stretched for to wound those that by him would not be healed , who shall forbid it , untill the Cause be removed , and t●ey purged through judgement and suffering ? And now unto you the present Power , King and Parliament : be not high minded , but fear ; be not lifted up , as though by your Arm , Power , and Policie you had got a Victory ; For it is Righteousness yet which the Lord doth require , and if by his immediate Power , ( without your Sword ) he have cut off all those that you might be grafted in Consider therefore Gods end in so doing , for it is by that immediate Power of God ( which hath broken them ) that you must stand , ( if you do stand ) for God is the same ; and will be to you , as he hath been to others , as you answer or not answer his requirings : For it is not Persons that God accepts , but he that fears God and works righteousness is accepted of him : therefore as you look to be established by the Lord , do Righteousness , Equity and Justice to every man , without respect of persons : and those that according to the Equal and Royal Law of God walk , doing unto others , as they would that others should do unto them : Take heed of imposing any thing relating to the matter of Worship upon the Consciences , least you kindle Gods wrath against you , ( as others have done ) which will not easily be quenched ; for upon this Rock have many been broken , and others wounded so , that they could not again be healed . And two things we would mind you of especially , First , That you are not come in by your own Sword or Power , but by a remarkable hand of God in such a way as neither your selves , nor many other could have expected . 2ly . Consider what a flood of unrighteousness , licentiousness , and fleshly liberty hath of a sudden overspread the Nation upon your comming in ; which although it received some little seasonable curb by a Proclamation from King Charles ( till which scarce a man fearing God , and that could not joyn with them in their riotings and drunken healths , could pass the Streets in most places of the Nation ) yet the Body of that Iniquity still stands in many places , as in May games , Fidlings , Danceings , Stage-playes , and divers other ungodly vain Sports , by which Gods righteous Soul is still grieved , the Spirits of all people that truely fears God sadned , the weight of that wickedness which already lay upon the Nations mightily encreased ; quite contrary to what such a work as your comming in after such a manner required ; All which speaks dreadfull things against these Nations in the sight of many , who are most acquainted with Gods fear , and have that Eye in them which foresee Evil to come , in whose Hearts and Mouths it is now to warn you , in love to your own Souls , ( who are in Power to scatter such Wickednesse ) and the Nation● peace and well-being , That the Wrath that is already threatned might be prevented from comming in your day ; And we desire , That you may take more notice of the Lords warnings to you , than others have done that have gone before you , that Gods hand and power be not turned against you , as it was again●t them . Richard Hubberthorn . THE END . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A70289e-180 Pro. 4.16 . Pro. 20.8 . and 26. Pro. 39.14 Eccles. 5.8 1 Tim. 3.9 Iohn 16.13 . John 4.24 . Psal. 82. Rom. 13.3 Amos 5.15 . Isa. 5.7 . Isa. 32.7 . 2 Cor. 10.4.5 . Ephes. 6.12 ▪ &c. Acts 6.10 Act● 21.28 Acts 17.5.6 . Acts 25.15 , 16. 2 Thes. 3.2 . Mica 7.8 . Notes for div A70289e-890 Joh. 11.9 , 10. 1 Tim. 6.16 . R●v. 21.24 . Isa. 53.1 . Joh. 3.80 . Mat. 5.48 . Heb. 6.1 . Heb. 2.11 . Ephes. 5.30 . 
A86670	----	The testimony of the everlasting gospel witnessed through sufferings. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A86670 of text R207402 in the English Short Title Catalog (Thomason E818_23). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 18 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 5 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A86670 Wing H3237 Thomason E818_23 ESTC R207402 99866456 99866456 168007 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A86670) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 168007) Images scanned from microfilm: (Thomason Tracts ; 124:E818[23]) The testimony of the everlasting gospel witnessed through sufferings. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. Atkinson, Christopher. Lancaster, James, d. 1699. Tofte, Thomas. 7, [1] p. s.n., [Norwich? : 1654] Caption title. Signed on p.3: A servant and a witnesse of Jesus in the bonds of the Gospel of Christ, and a prisoner in Norwich Castle, Richard Hubberthorn. Includes charges by the mayor of Norwich, Thomas Tofte, against James Lancaster and Christopher Atkinson, Quakers imprisoned in Norwich, and their responses. Imprint from Wing. Annotation on Thomason copy: "Decemb: 13". Reproduction of the original in the British Library. eng Prisoners' writings, English -- Early works to 1800. Suffering -- Early works to 1800. A86670 R207402 (Thomason E818_23). civilwar no The testimony of the everlasting gospel witnessed through sufferings.: Hubberthorn, Richard 1654 3569 1 0 0 0 0 0 3 B The rate of 3 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the B category of texts with fewer than 10 defects per 10,000 words. 2007-05 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2007-06 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2007-10 Emma (Leeson) Huber Sampled and proofread 2007-10 Emma (Leeson) Huber Text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion THE TESTIMONY Of the Everlasting GOSPEL Witnessed through Sufferings . WE the Prisoners of the Lord who are called and chosen to this Work of the Ministery of the Gospel of Ghrist , and to bear Testimony to the Truth , which freely we have received , and do freely declare ; and do covet no mans gold nor silver , nor meat , nor drink , nor apparell , God is our witnesse , whose honour and glory we seek , and not our own , but do labour in the Lords work , being chargeable to no man , but this doth the Spirit of God testifie to us dayly , that in them that receive our Testimony , and in them that persecute us are we a good savour unto God , both in them that believe , and in them that perish , and that we may finish our Testimony and Work of the Ministry committed unto us , we love not our lives unto death , but are reviled persecuted , and shamefully intreated by this perverse Generation , who have no Law to act any thing against us by , but their own wils , for the Law of God doth witnesse us and our Ministery to be of God , and for setting up righteousnesse in the earth our Ministery is ; and they who do act against the servants of the living God , do act against God , for the Law of God which is perfect , we witnesse to be fulfilled in us , who are come to the Ministration of the Spirit , and through the Law are become dead to the Law , and by the Spirit we come to know sin , which raigned till the Law came which is perfect , which taxes hold upon every transgression ; and Christ we witnesse the end of the Law , who came to finish transgression , and make an end of sins , and where there is no transgression proved , there can be no Law added , and we who suffer here in Norwich , there is nothing proved against us that comes under the breach of the Law : For as I was moved of the Lord , I came to Wymondham , and in the Meeting house , when the Priest had ended , and all the people silent , I spoke the Word of the Lord to them , in love to their souls , and for the deliverance of the seed of God out of captivity , and for this I was sent to Bridwell , and the next day being called before the Magistrate , but nothing was proved against me , though he accused me of something which I spoke not , nor none did prove it against me , and he himself confessed that he did not hear me speak that he accused me of , though he himself was in the multitude , and heard as the rest did . Then he asked me if I would promise him not to come in the publick Meeting house again in the like manner , and I should have my Liberty to meet in Town , or where I would : I Answered , if I was moved of the Lord to come thither again , I should come , and when I did transgresse or do any wrong , let him add the Law upon me , for there is no Law in the Nation that doth binde any from coming to the Publick meeting house , who come in the same manner as I did , to declare the Word of the Lord freely to the people , then in his will he made a mittimus , and sent me to prison , and the next day by his own warrant discharged me of all that was laid to my charge in the Mittimus , and yet I am kept in prison nothing justly being charged against me , having suffered imprisonment above ten weeks , and since I was committed was called before the Magistrates , and the Maior , and before the Committees who sit as Ministers of the Law , and nothing they could finde worthy of bonds , nor that I had broken the Law , yet did not set me at liberty , but keeps me still in prison , and I being shut up in a hole amongst thieves , and not suffered to have my Liberty Publickly ; I am moved of the Lord to declare it publickly , that all Rulers , Magistrates and people in the Nation may see that in stead of the Law , persecution is acted , where three of the servants of the Lord is now imprisoned in Norwich , one because he would not Promise to come in the Steeple-house again to declare the Word of the Lord ; and another is committed by a Mittimus , and the substance of that charged against him in it , is , That he said , he came to declare the Truth , and another because he declared against him and ungodlinesse openly in the streets : Oh , be ashamed all the powers of the earth , who have set your selves against the mighty power of God , who is now coming to discover you , and lay you naked , who by the Light of God are seen , and to the children of Light are made manifest , though your deceits hath laid hid and covered long , both Priests and Magistrates : but now are ye discovered by the Light , and the Life is come to try you , and now you are found to persecute the Saints , which you professed your selves to be , till you were proved and tryed by the Light , as now you are ; Praises eternall be to the Lord God for evermore . Now these things being acted in the name of the Law , and the present government , and Lord Protector , and Rulers and heads of the Nation , being ignorant of what tyranny and persecution is acted privately in their Names ; Therefore I am moved of the Lord to declare it Publictly , that the heads and Rulers of the nation may see and consider whether any such tyranny be Protected to be set up in the Nation instead of the Law of justice ; for the innocent doth cry for equity and justice in their Courts and Sessions , but in stead thereof tyranny , persecution , and cruelty , so having discharged my duty in clearing my conscience to you before the Lord : The sin lyes at your doores , who hath a power put into your hands , if you do not improve it in breaking the bondes of wickednesse , and setting the oppressed free : for the Law of justice and equity we own , and have desired to be tryed by , but are denyed it by those called Justices of Peace : and here to you and all the world we declare the Truth , and are not afraid of the faces of men , who would devour us , for we have no mans person in admiration for advantage nor self ends , but in plainnesse and singlenesse of heart declare the truth , respecting no mans person , but do honour all men in the Lord , but not with eye service as men pleasers , but in singlenesse of heart do we all things as unto the Lord . A servant and a witnesse of Jesus in the bonds of the Gospel of Christ , and a prisoner in Norwich Castle , RICHARD HUBBERTHORN . Norwich , THese are to require you to to take into your custody James Lancaster herewith sent , who lately came to this City from Northseal , in the ●land of Walner in Lancashire , and can shew no lawfull cause for his coming hither , but onely to declare the Truth ( as he cals it ) and did in the publick market place in this City , gather together a great company of rude and idle people , to the disturbance of the peace of this City , and him safe keep untill he shall be delivered from thence according to the Law , and hereof fail not : This 9th of December , to Mr Edward Hunt keeper of the common prison in the said City . Thomas Tofte Maior . ANSVVER . The cause of my coming I did declare before one of your Justices called , and was examined before him ; I told him it was to see a friend in the Castle , who was Prisoner there , and after I had been there with him was moved to go where their Minister of the Law , called , was sitting in a house neer the Castle , who said little unto me , because it was undenyable that a spoke , who own Justice , and reasoned with the people in the same room of the things of God , and so came and was passing out of the City a quarter of a mile , the Word of the Lord came to me , Thou must go back again , and witnesse forth my Name in their Market among the people , and at his command I was obedient , and went and declared forth that was given me to speak amongst them , which made the people astonished , and many did follow me as you call them , rude , in running to hear the Truth declared forth in the Market , as the Apostle of Christ , who reasoned in the Markets dayly , and went from City to City , preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom , and were persecuted from city to city , this is called disturbance now as it was then , and what peace did I break , going on declaring forth the Truth , which none could object against that heard it , and by your Officers called , as he said , he might know the ground why I spoke so , and shewed him I was commanded of the Lord , and being brought by him before one justice called , was examined , and could not find me by his Law a transgressor , and bade him carry me to the Maior , and he did so , and he did examine me upon the grounds of my faith , and of my outward means , where it was , and what quantity it was , and being not ashamed , declared my self at full to him of both , as it will further appear by an examination before the Rulers of this City , and so by the Maior , as aforesaid , am here in their bonds and imprisonments doth abide me in obedience to the commands of the same that Paul was guided , and so by the same generation of Rulers as was in those dayes am I here a sufferer , and to die , if I be called to it , for a testimony of a good conscience , and in the Market I cleared my conscience in witnessing forth the Truth , Christ Jesus the Light of the world , who hath enlightened every one that comes into the world , and cald people to repentance , and said the mighty day of the Lord was coming , let all flesh dread and fear before him , and bade them take heed to the Light of Christ in them , which shewed sin and evill in them , loving it theere was their teacher ; hating it there was their condemnation ; this was the Word of the Lord sent by me , which was no peace to earthly hearts and minds , but a sword , as Christ saith , and this was disturbance of the peace of the City of Norwich called , by the Rulers , who now am in their bonds for this declaring , let all judge what peace it is they live in , when the Word of the Lord disturbs them : But to that of God in all consciences am I sent to speak , which is his own witnesse against transgression in man , and by it man sees his transgression , and acting contrary to that , there is mans condemnation ; but who as loves it , the Light of Christ in the conscience , their deeds are brought to it to be tryed , that they may be made manifest , and here is the wicked nature disturbed , and judged in the particular , and they are called disturbers , in whom the Light of Christ doth guide in the Generall , and to that which doth disturb the wicked nature do we speak , that sin and unjust dealing may be confounded , and the soul brought from under it , that God alone may be glorified , to whom honour and glory belongs . A Servant of the Lord to exhort people to the light of Christ in them , that they may be turned from their dark wayes they lived in , to serve the living God in Spirit and in truth . JAMES LANCASTER . From Norwich the 13. of the 10. month . 1654 An Episte written in the bonds of the Gospel , to be published abroad amongst the Inhatants of ENGLAND , Rulers , Magistrates and People . I A Prisoner of the Lord Jesus Christ , doe unto all the world clear my conscience in the presence of the Lord , and am free from the bloud of all men , who seek the bloud of the innocent , and by the wickednesse of the deceitful hearts , would insnare the simple , and number them amongst transgressors , who are not found in any transgression , but are set free by the Son , and are heirs of the promise , according to the will of God , who hath called me out of the world to testifie against the world , that their deeds are evill ; and for the same am I hailed before the Judgement seats , against whom there is no Law , for in the Law of God , which is according to that in every mans conscience , doe I abide , and am free from all bondages , and Lawes without , that are acted in the will of man , and by such a Law is the innocent persecuted , and cast into prison , to suffer amongst the transgressors , that the Scripture might be fulfilled upon them as Christ said , as they have done unto me , so shall they doe unto you , the Servant is not greater than the Lord , John 15. 18 , 19 , 20 , 21. and this we are witnesses of , and are brought to suffer for his name sake , and am not onely willing to suffer , but to die for the testimony of Jesus : Though all the chief Priests and Rulers . which are not called by the Law of God , as the Ministers of God , and of God , were , but doe seek to insnare and bring into bondage that which God hath set at liberty , for it is the same nature that doth imprison the seed within , which doth imprison and persecute the Servants of the Lord , in whom the seed is raised up without in the Saints : And whereas I am sent to the Goale of Norwich by a Mittimus by the hands of the Rulers , I am moved of the Lord to clear my conscience unto all the world , that I am free and not guilty of what they lay to my charge , though by it they seek to persecute . The Mittimus : NORVVICH . These are to require you to take into your custody the body of Christopher Atkinson herewith sent , who lately came into this city from Kendall in Westmerland , and can give no account of his livelihood , nor shew any lawfull cause of his coming hither , but onely to declare the Truth , as he calls it . THO. TOFTE Mayor . ANSVVER . To these things , for which I am accused , and am imprisoned by the Rulers of this City , I am bold to declare the truth , that out of Countries and kinreds hath the Lord redeemed me , and called me forth to declare his name abroad , for which cause I am apprehended as a Vagrant , though my habitation and being is known in the earth , and for declaring his name abroad who hath thus called me , am I brought before Rulers , and cast into prison for testifying the life and power of that which they themselves professe in words , who thus imprisoneth and persecuteth the righteous seed of God where it is brought forth . And here let the Rulers of Norwich be witnesses against themselves , that they are of that generation that put our Lord Jesus Christ to death , by a law in their own wills , contrary to the will of God : and what would they have said of Christ , who had no habitation in the earth , no not so much as to lay his head , if they had been in his dayes ; by this Law he might have been persecuted and imprisoned , and him they doe persecute and imprison , in so much as they doe it unto the least of his , they doe it unto him , as it is made manifest ; and if they had been in the times of the Apostles , whose words they doe professe , would they not have persecuted them by this law , who said they had no certain dwelling place , 1 Cor. 4. 11. and the world was not worthy of them , and such doe they persecute now as are redeemed from the world , and by it suffer continually . Cain was a Vagabond , who slew his brother , and such as live in anger and envy , such hath no habitation in God , but such actions and beastly nature we deny , and are redeemed from such things , and our habitation is in God ; and here let the Rulers of Norwich stop their mouthes and be ashamed , who are found persecutors of the Saints of the most high God , without the breach or colour of any law , or any transgression said justly to our charge , who are free born English men , whose Country and habitation we declared , and yet in their Mittimus doth deny it . And whereas I am accused of gathering multitudes of rude people together , it is false , as the City of Norwich shall testifie , for I was quietly in a house with them that were my friends , and I did not goe forth into their streets , but the rude multitude came in , which they and the Priests call Christians , and broke the peace , and this the Mayor of the Town came in and saw , who said , there was no revelation now , but of the Devill , and so denyeth both Christ and the Scriptures , which saith , No man knoweth the Father but the Son , and he to whom the Son will reveal him ; Now let all judge whether he be fit to rule for God , who denyes the Covenant of God , who gave him for a Covenant and a Leader to the People , and the Maior coming in to our Meeting , where the rude multitude was , as he cals it , had nothing where of to accuse us , but desired me in love to come to him the next day , which I did , and by a warrant without any examination , I was sent to prison for a time , till I was called to examination again , being free from the breach of any Law am I here retained in prison for witnessing forth a good conscience before God and man , thus to all the world have I cleared my conscience in the presence of the Lord , that what I suffer is for righteousnesses sake , without the breach of any Law , and so I remain a sufferer this day for the Testimony of Jesus who am a servant to the Truth , and a Friend of Israels Commonwealth . Whose name in the flesh is Christopher Atkinson , a Prisoner of the Lord in Norwich . From the Gaol of Norwich 13. 10. FINIS . 
A52677	----	An account from the children of light (to them that askes) in several particulars why we have been kept from joyning to, or worshipping in those formes at law, and formes of worships, that have been imposed upon us against our consciences, in these late years, for denying whereof, we have so deeply suffered, with our lives, liberties, and estates. : Also what we owne as to those things, and can be obedient to for conscience sake, according to truth, and the practise of the church of Christ, and the Scriptures. Naylor, James, 1617?-1660. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A52677 of text R27517 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing N256). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 88 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 29 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A52677 Wing N256 ESTC R27517 09924814 ocm 09924814 44347 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A52677) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 44347) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English Books, 1641-1700 ; 1364:9 or 2643:14) An account from the children of light (to them that askes) in several particulars why we have been kept from joyning to, or worshipping in those formes at law, and formes of worships, that have been imposed upon us against our consciences, in these late years, for denying whereof, we have so deeply suffered, with our lives, liberties, and estates. : Also what we owne as to those things, and can be obedient to for conscience sake, according to truth, and the practise of the church of Christ, and the Scriptures. Naylor, James, 1617?-1660. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. 55 p. Printed for Thomas Simmons ..., London : 1660. Signed: J.N. [and] R.H. Reproduction of originals in the British Library and the Friends' Library. Item at reel 2643:14 incorrectly identified as Wing H3216A. Imperfect: copy at 2643:14 tightly bound with loss of text. eng Society of Friends -- Apologetic works. A52677 R27517 (Wing N256). civilwar no An account from the children of light, (to them that askes) in several particulars, why we have been kept from joyning to, or worshipping in Naylor, James 1660 17708 138 0 0 0 0 0 78 D The rate of 78 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the D category of texts with between 35 and 100 defects per 10,000 words. 2004-12 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-02 SPi Global Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-04 Olivia Bottum Sampled and proofread 2005-04 Olivia Bottum Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion AN ACCOUNT From the Children of light , ( to them that askes ) in several particulars , why we have been kept from joyning to , or worshipping in , those formes at Law , and formes of worships , that have been imposed upon us against our consciences , in these late years , for denying whereof , we have so deeply suffered , with our lives , Liberties , and Estates . Also what we owne , as to those things , and can be obedient to for Conscience sake , according to truth , and the practise of the Church of Christ , and the Scriptures . For our rejoycing is this , the testimony of our Conscience ; That in simplicity and godly sincerity , not with fleshly wisdome , but by the grace of God , we have had our conversation in the world , 2 Cor. 1.12 . LONDON ; Printed for Thomas Simmons , at the Bull and Mouth neare Aldersgate . 1660. For as much as many have desired to know the ground in particulars , of our differences in faith and worship towards God , And in some things as to the outward formes at Law , which men have sought to impose upon us in these late yeares ; and also what we would desire therein ; therefore is this written following , towards the satisfying of every honest desire , who loves the kingdome of Christ . THere is no kingdome nor people can truely be said to be the Lords and his Christs , but as they come to be guided and governed by the Law of his Spirit in their Consciences , which Spirit and anoynting all must wait for , even from the King that sits on high , to the least place of government in any people , That with it all may know Judgement , and to doe Justice , which is of God , and not of men , That he may be known , to be the anoynting of Kings , and to Judge among the Judges , whose right it is of old , and God hath given it to him by an everlasting generation , even after the power and order of an endlesse life , That in him and in his seed may nations and kingdoms be blessed with peace , even through and in his Righteous government ; for God the Father accepts neither persons , lawes , nor governments , how prudently soever they be made , if they be not in him , and from him , and for him ; because for him , was made all soules that move , not onely in earth , but in heaven also ; All signes , and seasons , types and shadows , worship and sabbath was made for him the son of man , And no flesh breathing , nor Spirits neither , men or Angels hath any true power or right , but as they receive it in him , and so use it to him , and for him , over any of these things visible or invisible , to rule , force , or order , no not over his own body , but by usurpation ; and for the time that he , or they , shall hold that power , and not in him , as aforesaid , they shall be under the curse of God , not established in peace and righteousnesse , but in tyranny and oppression ; with force , or with flattery , must such rule in their day , untill their measure of time , and sin , be fulfilled , In which the vengeance of the Almighty shall remove them far away , onely their names shall remain as a curse to those that come after . Thus God will plead the Cause of his own seed , and overturne , and shake nations and kingdoms , untill the earth know that the heavens must Reigne , and the stout of heart confess that the head of every man is Christ , And that God hath made this same Jesus ( which men hath rejected ) both Lord & Christ , which in his time he shall shew to be the onely Potentate , King of Kings , and Lord of Lords , who onely hath immortality dwelling in the light , where he sits at the right hand of power till God shall make all his foes his footstoole . Now this is that we wait for in every appearance and face of authoritie that comes up , to wit , the face of Jesus our righteous King and Saviour , in whom is no violence , nor oppression , who when he comes to rule , we know will be tender of the tender in Conscience , and meeke towards the poore in Spirit , and with righteousnesse will he judge , and rule on the earth , to deliver the helplesse from him that is too hard for him , who will drive wickednesse from his throne , and the workers thereof into a Corner , but will gently deale towards all that travails with righteousnesse , and put the Lambs of truth in his bosome , for he loves righteousnesse , and hates iniquity , therefore hath God called him his anoynted , and will give him the heathen for his possession , and a Priest to God he is to all generations , in his dayes shall the upright rejoyce , for he shall walke safely in his uprightnesse ; no nett shall then be spread on the mountaines , neither shall he that turnes from iniquitie be made a prey , for under him shall every one serve his God without feare , in holinesse of life , and godlinesse of conversation . Now this is he we wait for , even the beloved of our soules , and we know his birth is come to the nations , and his morning towards the people , yea to the wise in heart , who are yet afar off , hath his starre appeared ; And we know his breaking forth to these Ilands as the bright Sun after the stormy raine , even so shall he be after the shakeings , he shall be a Covert from the tempest , as rivers of waters in a dry place , and as the shadow of a great rock in a weary land , even so shall he be , who shall raigne in righteousnesse , and by whom Princes shall rule in Judgement ; This is the Royall seed , and he that is of him is the son of Nobles , his Princes eate in due season , for strength , and not for drunkennesse ; thus shall the Land be blessed , who is found worthy to receive the anoynted of God to rule in its borders . And this is he whom we have preached to all the severall governments that hath risen ever since God revealed him in us , and the glory and peace of his kingdome ; and we have patiently waited , and in great sufferings hath our soules travelled , to see if by any meanes , we might see , any worthy to receive his anoynting , and to be borne of his Spirit , to governe by his power , and with his Counsell to order , and be ordered , that through him they might be established of God , and we have looked through the vail of flesh in all sorts of people , and could not bow thereto , and by many contrary Spirits have we been evill entreated , because we could not owne ●hem , for him , whose kingdome we seeke , in rulers , teachers and people . And thus have we gone seeking the righteous one , through Parliaments and Protectors ( so called ) Priests and Rulers , of all sorts , but his government we have not found , nor with his righteous Judgements have we been judged among them , but we have been shamefully entreated for his sake , and have borne his reproach , because of his Spirit in us , and his kingdome in our Consciences ; And many times have been tryed to the losse of estates , and lives , to see if they could provoke or drive us from his faith in our Consciences , or tempt us any way to deny him , and owne them in their wills ; And though we have dayly suffered thus under every severall power , and people , yet have we not ceased to warne them in love , with much feare and plainnesse , that if by any meanes they might have received his testimony , and not have perished in their gain saying ; for our God in whom we trusted shewed it to us , that they should not prosper , nor be established without him , his Spirit , and anoynting , to whom he hath given the government of all people , that shall be blessed by him , yea , all the nations , of them that are saved must walke in his light , and receive his counsel , for their stability , and his resurrection for their glory , and his anoynting for the strength of their kingdomes . And this is the Cause why we have chused rather to suffer under every power that yet hath risen , then to joyne in with them , because we have not heard the voyce of the holy one in the midst of them , neither hath his Spirit in them been the strength of their Counsells , but they have sought to make flesh their arme , and to strengthen their kingdome with flattery and deceit , and not with truth , and they have sought to make themselves dreadfull by violence , and to rule with cruelty , and not with the sword of God , which is Judgement and Justice ; and have sought honour from men , and not from the Lord , and their Covering hath been vaine glory , and not the Spirit of God ; So with the light of Christ we saw their foundation , and their building , and that they could not stand long in Gods sight , and that all that joyned to them must fall with them , and that the woes that are written of such must certainly overtake them And this is the Cause , and no other thing why we have hitherto borne our testimony against them all , even because they would not joyne to the Lord , nor heare his voyce in their day , but the more he called after them by the mouth of his servants , the more they were ●ardned , and the more provoked him to their own confusion ; so it hath not been prejudice to any mans person that hath kept us at a distance from them or their commands , for we can truely say we have waited without prejudice , if by any meanes we could but have seene any of them seeking the kingdome of God , that therein they might have been established , yea we have the witnesse of truth in us to this day , how glad our soules have been before the Lord , when we have but felt the least tendernesse in any of them , arising ●rom the Spirit of Jesus , or the least confession from his light in them . And sometimes we have felt some tendernesse in some of them when they have been low , little , and in feare , in which we have had some hope and gladnesse to heare the voyce of simplicity and truth , ( though but brokenly ) so that we could then have said they was not f●r from the kingdome of God ; But turning away the eare from the Spirit of truth in them , and consulting with fleshly wisdome and carnall reason likely to make wise , and to accomplish their selfe ends , how soone hath truth sallen in them , and blindnesse , and hardnesse of heart come over them againe worse then before , which being shewed us of God , we could not but deny them also to be of God . Thus in generall , an account is given to you that askes a reason , why we have not yet owned any power that yet hath risen , so as to joyne to them in all things . Now to you who desire to know in what particulars we have differed from these governments that yet hath risen since we was a people ; we might say our lives , practises , and sufferings hath openly declared it , through the most parts of these nations , and in most , and greatest of our differences ; Yet for the better satisfying of some that knows not so much as others , and to take away all occasion of offence , from all that would not oppose the way of truth if they knew it , and to leave without excuse the wilfully ignorant , and persecuters of the good old way of Christ ; I shall instance in some things , and also shew our warrant for so doing , both by Scripture , and the practise of the holy men of God , in their generation ; It being that so many are yet ignorant and unbeleeving , concerning the present leadings of the Spirit of truth in them , which is chiefe leader , and corner stone in us , by which we walke towards God , and towards men , in all these things . And as to that first . Though God hath laid it upon us as matter of Conscience , to be subject to what outward government or governers soever he shall set up over us , in outward things ; and also that with all willingnesse of mind a ready subjection be rendered , at every just command , not for fear onely , but even for Conscience sake ; and that in all things , we should seek the safety , and honour , and well-being of such governers , to the utmost of our power , even as we looke to account to God for it , of whom the powers that be , are ordained ; yet hath he begotten us unto himselfe alone , and to the leadings of his own Spirit in all things concerning faith and worship , as to matter , manner , time and place ; This is to be done and performed singly as to him , in the leadings of Jesus , and in the power of his Spirit alone , else will he have no regard thereto ; And for this purpose hath he given the Spirit of his Son into our hearts , to be our light and understanding and leader in all these things ; to which leadings and movings the father requires obedience in all things , upon eternall condemnation in matters pertaining to our consciences ; That must be the throne of Christ alone , and there will he sway the Scepter of eternall life , and answer his people in all things , and be their Saviour , guide , and lawgiver , in all things that are just and holy . So that is at any time their teachers have left the way of life , and would l●ad people after them , yet hath he through faith and a tender Conscience , preserved a seed out of error to himselfe in such a day , by which he hath reproved and made manifest the folly of such t●achers ; And to this the Scriptures doe fully testifie , as in the dayes of the Prophets , when they erred in vision , and had not the word in them , and so caused the people to erre through their lyes , and through their lightnesse , then had he men of enlightned Consciences , to send to reprove their brutishnesse , though otherwise they themselves was neither Prophets nor sons of Prophets , but may be , a heardman , or a gatherer of siccomore fruite , a plowman , or a shepheard , or some such , which Englands pride would call mecannick fellows , yet in these was the seed preserved , else the Land might have become as Sodom , and not one have known the Lord nor his word . And as it was in the dayes of the false Prophets , so hath it been since the dayes of the false ministry , for which many have suffered since the dayes of the Apostles , for testifying against such as have erred in Spirit , forme , and doctrine , from Christ Jesus and his Apostles ; And this hath been from the indwelling power of Christ in them , and his precious light shining in their hearts and consciences , that they have thus been preserved , and enabled , to beare the testimony of Christ against false worships , and worshippers ; and so it is at this day , in all who keepe a pure Conscience towards God in all his word and worship , that his true , and spirituall worship might not be wholly lost out of the world . Also if at any time their Kings or Rulers forgot God , or Kings arose who knew not God , and then would lay upon them Laws and Commands , which was not just an● lawfull for them to doe , then by the light of Christ in a pure Conscience they was enabled to withstand it even unto death ; As that of Mordecai and the Jews , who would rather all be destroyed then bow to Hammons pride at the Kings command , though Englands people would have said this is but a civill thing , and duty , and good manners , and the like , yet Gods Law in their Conscience they preferred above all that the King commanded contrary thereto , yea life and all would they lose rather then defile their Conscience towards God , or deny his Law there , though no Law without had forbidden such a thing ; Yet in other cases did they appeare true and subject to the King , for Mordecai's truth saved the Kings life , not long before , though from man he had little reward for it . Likewise might be Instanced , that of Daniels praying contrary to the decrees of the King , his Counsell of Presidents and Princes , and that of the three children against the fierce Command of Nebuchadnezzar , in denying to worship at his will and pleasure ; likewise that of the Apostles , when their Rulers and Priests also , charged them straitly not to preach any more , their answer before authoritie was , we ought to obey God rather then men ; yea it would be too long to tell how many godly men and women , upon the account of a pure Conscience , not onely hazarded their lives , but lost life and all , for the testimony of a tender Conscience , as might be instanced . But this may be said for all ; That if they would but have denyed the law of God in their conscience , and conformed to the wills of men , and their laws , not o●e of all the Prophets , Apostles , or all the holy men of God need to have suffered death or spoyle . So now in that any of us by the same spirit of Christ , and from his light and law in our Consciences , are moved to goe testifie against false Prophets , false worships , and declare the way of truth to all people against them to their face ; And if Rulers have been so opposite to this as to make laws against it , and to command us to bow and worship at their wills , which for Conscience sake towards God we could not , for which we have suffered the spoyling of goods , long and heavie imprisonments , shamefull usings , and losse of lives also ; I say in this we have a cloud of witnesses , even the Lord Jesus our Captaine , and the whole body of Martyrs , who have all gone before us in the selfe same obedience of faith and Spirit , and have suffered the same or such like things from Rulers that knew not God , and teachers that knew not God , in their dayes ; and all of them in their dayes was counted offenders , hereticks ▪ or dispisers of Authority or some such reproach was cast upon them by their accusers and persecuters , for obeying the law of their God in their Consciences , whom the Rulers of the darknesse of this world have not known , nor can know , till they beleeve his light in their own Consciences . So it is not for new things , nor strange opinions , which was never in the world before , for which we suffer , ( though to the world they seeme new and strange , but for the very same workes , of the same Spirit of light and truth , which hath often appeared in a poore contemptible people , and hath as often received the same measure , from them who professe him in words ▪ but in workes deny him ; by such have we suffered , who read and preach the same in words , which this eternall Spirit in us now worketh ; And with such who with words garnish the sepulchres of those whom their fathers slew , are we counted great offenders , for being found in the same way and practise , and in obedience to the same Spirit , in that measure as we have received it ; So we have this added to the testimony of a good Conscience towards God , and towards men , that we suffer not for evill doing , though as evill doers ( to wit ) the practise of holy men , and the Scriptures of truth which will owne us herein , and stand on our parts against all our adversaries and accusers . And t●is will be proved so when we come to particulars , wherein we differ from the wayes and worships of these present times , and for which we are so much hated and persecuted . And we know that it will not be found harmfull to the bodyes , estates , or well-being of any Christian neighbourhood , nor of any other people in the nations , to practise those things wherein we differ , in civill and temporall things , nor hurtful to the soules of any . In the things wherein we differ in religious or spirituall matters , from the severall opinions and formes of worships that are or have been set up in these nations ; As we shall make it plainly appeare if either Spirit of truth ▪ or Scripture of truth or things equall may but be received on our part . Now we shall mention some particulars in which we differ for Conscience sake from some of the formes traditions , and commands of the men of this present age , and the powers that have ruled therein ▪ under whom we have therefore suffered , as evill doers . And first as to those things which some calls civill . ANd indeed it may be wondered at , by any moderate people , that in a nation called Christians , any man should suffer , so much as to be called an offender for some of the things which I must mention upon this account , especially they being layd upon us by the spirit of Christ as matter of conscience , and by a people so highly pretending for liberty of Conscience . As it hath been layd upon us by the Spirit of Christ , to use the same single language to all sorts of people , which the Scriptures uses , and all the holy men of God therein have ever used , that is to say , thou to any one person , and you to more then one ; A language , sound , and true , to God , and man , which the Spirit of God first spoke , and gave to man , and of man received it againe without offence , and never since gave to man any other forme of speech , as we may read in the Scriptures of truth ; And in this we differ from some sorts of people , and for it have ●uffered as great offenders , and have undergone very grievous censures , and long imprisonments , divers of us , though it hath been layd on our Consciences from the Lord , yea the Scriptures also , commands the forme of sound words , to be holden fast ; now why those who professe the Scriptures for their rule , should persecute us for using the language of it , may be thought strange to the hearers thereof ; yet for this we suffer for a testimony against them . Also it hath been layd upon us by the Lord to call men and women by their own names , which their fathers have given to them , to be knowne by amongst men ; And though in this we differ from some sorts of people , who can give flattering titles to some people in stead of their names , and reproachfully miscall others in stead of their names , yet herein we are owned by the Scriptures of truth , and the practise of all the holy men therein , who never refused their own names to take a proud title , but owned their names that God had given them , And saith the Scriptures , let me not give flattering titles to man , for in so doing my maker would soone take me away . And if you respect persons , you commit sin , and are convinced of the law as evill doers ; yet for this we have suffered also by this generation , as evill doers , and contemners of authoritie , though we know that to call a man by his name , contemnes not his authoritie , nor doe we it for that end , but in obedience to truth , and for Conscience towards God . Also that about our hats putting off , which hath been so great an offence to many ; This also hath been layd upon our Consciences by the Lord and we dare not disobey him therein to please men , though sometimes it hath been said to us that if we would but put off our hats , we should not goe to prison ; others have said , when we came before them for Judgement and Justice , you shall have no Justice , unlesse you put off your hats ; yea some have hazarded their lives hereon , yet durst not disobey God herein , though they have suffered long therefore ; and lost their rights for want of justice : yet we have not dared to disobey our God herein , but have valued our peace with him and a pure Conscience above all sufferings and profits herein . Now , this is beyond all the persecuters of old , that men should suffer for their hats , yea , even Nebuchadnezzar in his greatest heate of persecution ▪ he made not that an offence , to keepe on their hats , more then their other garments ▪ but with their hats on as well as hose and shooes , they was bound and cast into the fire ; nor doe we finde in all the Scriptures precept or practise of that thing yet for this we have deeply suffered ▪ in divers parts of this nation . Thus would people and powers , drive us from the obedience of our God , in a pure Conscience ▪ and instead thereof cause us to worship a vaine Custome , for which we have no warrant , neither in Scripture ▪ nor good example , but saith the Lord , Ye shall keepe mine ordinances , but the Customes of the people are vaine , and abominable , you shall not defile your selves therewith . So , we obey God rather then men ▪ and by men who professes God , suffer for so doing . This also hath been commanded us of the Lord , and layd upon our Consciences , not to sweare at ●ll , upon any occasion whatsoever , and because of this we have forborne to sweare , when men have called us thereto , whether to sweare at any change of government , or what ever it hath been , we may not sweare at all ; And for this we have deeply suffered also , as cōtemners of the law , though we have not despised government , but have consented to what just thing was required of us , in truth of heart , without swearing ; And for this we have the expresse command of Christ Jesus who hath said , Sweare not at all ; And his Apostles said , Above all things my brethren , sweare not , least you fall into condemnation . And we have also the practise of all the followers of Christ who was never knowne to use an oath since ; for to such as receive Christ there is the end of swearing ; and divers other things which before Christ came to end them , was ordinances of God , but Christ the Covenant everlasting hath ended all swearings of men whatsoever , and forbidden they are in his name , upon paine of condemnation . Further , in the time of Moses , when swearing was in the Iews Church , it was not to be forced upon them by any penalty , but they might sweare or not sweare , without any carnall punishment , nor was it required of witnesses to sweare at all , betwixt a man and his neighbour , two witnesses was to establish the matter before the Iudge , but I never read of those two required to sweare , that was as to a mans owne particular , onely in this case , when a man had taken a pledge , and it was stolen from him , then an oath was to be taken of that man in his owne behalfe , that he put not his hand to the stealeing of it , and then he was not to repay it againe , but if he would repay it he needed not sweare , so he was not forced . And except in this case onely , I finde not an oath required by any Iudge in Moses law . So , these who make us offenders , ●or denying to sweare , are out of all the way of God in Moses time . And in Christs time , swearing is expressly forbidden at all , even this in Moses time ; for faith Christ It hath been said by them of old time , thou shalt not forsweare thy selfe , but shalt performe unto the Lord thy oaths . So here was Moses time , and swearing to the Lord , commanded in truth ; and this said Moses . But ( saith Christ ) I say ▪ Sweare not at all , and this is greater then Moses , whose time is without end . Further , as to the administration of the Laws of these nations in these late yeares , there we have seene many things , which in our Conscience we cannot joyne to , being shewed to us to be out of truth , and equity , and not helps , but burthens to the nations ; Now as to our selves , so many as walke in Christ Iesus , we have one Judge , and Law-giver appointed to us for that end by the father ; And we may not goe to Law one with another , as men being come to Christ Iesus , the end of lust , pride , and strife , which we have found to be the Cause of fightings , and sutes at Law , and if any thing of that nature would arise in any of us , by our Iudge and Law-giver it is judged , and we are saved ; And it is layd upon us by the same Spirit of Christ , not to sue any man at the Law , nor to seeke to avenge our selves of such as seeke to wrong us , but to love our enemies , and pray for them that dispitefully use us , and hate us ; And so from all men to suffer for peace sake , for to peace we are called , towards all men , and under the Prince of peace is our government , so that we need not men to end Controversies amongst us , who are all in unity of spirit , and life , in Christ Iesus . But when men haile us before Iudgement-Seats , or cause us to appeare at their Courts of Law , then we meet with many things among them there , which for Conscience sake we cannot bow to , nor uphold , finding them , not onely against the rule of Christians , but , out of the way of common honesty as men , yea many things against truth it selfe , and this we cannot serve , as Law , which is against truth . As when they send a Writ to appeare at their Courts , in a mans owne proper person , and in obedience thereto we have come , ( may be ) two hundred miles or above , and tendred our appearance accordingly , at the very day appointed , then they have with violence and reproach thrust us out of their Court● ▪ because we did appeare in our owne person● , and not ●n another mans person , whom we have not known , and for this have we suffered much damage , & long imprisonment , as contemners of authority and Law Now , this we cannot joyne to in our hearts , nor owne as honesty , and truth , and plain dealing as men , to let goe , all talke of Christian● , the heathen would not doe this to us Also , when our adversary puts up a Bill o● Charge against us , drawn up in a forme without truth , fill'd with false accusations , a●though our offence amounted to hundreds or thousands of pounds wrong , or damage , when with the truth of Christ in our Conscience we know , that we have never wronged that man one penny in our lives , but that it is the enemy of truth , and peace , even that Old accuser of the brethren , which now workes in that Creature to spoyle our goods or take our lives , or liberties from us ; Then , we are not suffered to returne an answer in the feare of our God , and in plainnesse and truth of expressions , as the Spirit of truth shall move in the simplicity of our hearts ; And so , with the Spirit of truth to deny the lyes and false accusations , of the adversary ; But we must be forced to give unreasonable sums of money , to another man , whom we know not , nor knows he our state and case in this matter , to answer in our stead , who for ought we know , may in stead of sharply reproving those abominable lyes , justifie them , at least as a legall thing , or forme at Law , fit to be used . And thus our testimony against falshood is taken from us , which the Spirit of truth requires of us , and we pay money to have it justified , as a forme at Law , when we know it to be a forme of lyes ; And we cannot leave the truth , to serve this deceipt ; beside , were the truth no dearer to us , but that we could thus give it up to be betrayed knowingly , yet it seems to us unreasonable , as men , to give our cause into the hands of him that knows it not , further then we must informe him , nor when we have informed him , have no assurance whether he will speak our words or his owne , or our adversaries , and so bring us under the guilt of the whole body of falshood . This appeares to us very unreasonable , and dangerous , and below the priviledge of a man , as a man , much more as a Christian , so we rather chuse to suffer innocently under falshood , keeping our consciences cleare , then consent thereto , and so establish mischiefe under pretence of a Law , Psal. 94.20 . and deny our testimony for the truth , to which we are called , and for which we suffer in all these things . Also , if any of us be sued at the Exchequer or Chancery , and appeare and take a Coppie of the Bill , and goe to the Iudges with a true answer thereto , they will refuse it , because we cannot sweare , though they will shew us no written law for so doing , but tell us its a Custome , and this custome is preferred above his Law who saith , sweare not at all ; and for this have many been imprisoned , it being put upon us either to deny their Custome , or Christs Command , so we chuse to suffer by men , for a season , rather then defile our Consciences . If we be summon'd to doe service for the Country , on a Iury , and be willing to do the service faithfully as to God and man , yet because we cannot sweare , many are fined , imprisoned , and their goods spoyled , and reputed unserviceable in the nation , when we would freely serve the Country , so as we might not therein deny Christ , our Saviour . If one of us be summon'd to appeare at a Court for a witnesse , that would testifie the truth before God from a good Conscience , and in the feare of God , and according to his Law , viz. in all things , that if we should wrong any man whatsoever through our false testimony , that its just the same should be done to us , yet because we cannot sweare , ( be the action never so great , ) our true testimony is refused , and we thrust away without Iudgement , & threaten'd to cause us to pay , what they say the party is damnified for our not swearing , and all this we must suffer for obeying Christs Commands . If one of us should buy a piece of land , or have some fallen to him by inheritance , and come to the Court Baron to take it up , they will not let him take it , except he sweare , and so breake Christs sayings ; or if a man purchase , or have an inheritance within a Customary Court , it s the same , and they will turne us without it , if we will not sweare contrary to Christs Commands . And thus is the evill Custome of a Cour● preferred before Christs Commands , a good Conscience , and a familyes whole estate and livelihood . If a man bind an apprentice in this Citie of London , and give a great summe of money with him , and the prentice serves his time honestly and truely , and have his Masters testimony thereto , yet is he denyed his freedome , if he cannot sweare for Conscience sake , and so must lose money and service , if he be faithfull to Christ . If one of us should dye intestate , they will not suffer our owne wife or Children to administer on our owne goods , unlesse they will sweare against their Conscience , and the Law of Christ ; or if we make a will , and make wife or Children Executer , they are denyed to prove the will , whereby they are to enjoy their estates , but by breaking that Command of Christ in swearing . Likewise , when some of us have been arrested to appeare at such a Court such a day , and have simply given bond to appeare ; And when the ap●earance hath been made at the day expressed by the party so bound , neither the appearance would be taken , nor the bond delivered , but a further snare , because another man appeares not for us whom we never knew , nor had ought to doe withall . Also about marriage , which we know to be an ordinance of God from the beginning , and being ordered in the Counsell of God , and the bed not defiled is honourable , but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge . So as any are moved of the Lord into that state , we say the Counsell of the Lord is first and chiesely to be minded , and the thing weighed in his seare , that it be done onely in the Lord , that it be not taken on lightly , rashly , nor by any fleshly motion , nor for any earthly ends , but in the moving & ordering of the Almighty Creator of man and woman , who onely knows their spirits . So to joyne them , as they may be one in flesh and spirit , that he may seeke a godly seed to himselfe , and they may lead a godly and peaceable life ; & onely thus is it Gods ordinance , as God puts together , and saith Christ , let not man put such asunder ; and this we say is the chiefe thing to be observed , viz. that God joyne them ; And next that notice be given to the parents , or such as have the oversight of each party , that ( as much as may be ) all may be done in love and unity in the will of God openly . And this we have from God in Spirit , and this we find in Scripture , to be the ordinance of God to his Saints of old , and their libertie in the Lord ; which God never altered , which we keepe for conscience sake , and may not breake . And least any licentious persons should abuse this liberty , to satisfie their lusts , and then not live as man and wise during their lives , and the Magistrates not know of them , and so they escape the sword of justice ; we have freedome in our Spirits , to acquaint some of the next Majestrates with our intents , and hereby confesse our selves lyable to the just censure of the Magistrate , with others , in case of misdemeanour , and all this we have done ere coming together as man and wife , which is as much as the ordinance of God , or any reas●n can justly require , yet have some of us suffered in this case , by the changable Laws of men , who some of them have sought to impose one sort of Priests on us as an ordinance , others Justices as an ordinance , and others another sort of Priests againe : so for denying these uncertain rules of men , and keeping the ordinance of God that was in the beginning , we suffer by all of them as evill doers , yet have they not one charge against any of us , who have been joyned according to this ordinance of God , as to breach of marriage , or misdemeanour therein : for we ha●e putting away , and come to that which was in the begginning . These with many other things there be , as touching the outward Laws , whereby both our lives , l●berties , and estates , become a daily prey to mercilesse men , from which hath been manifest such imprisoning til death , such persecution and spoyle of goods , as many generations to come may admire to read of , though in this generation its little regarded or minded , unless it be by some few , whose hearts God hath tendred , that have not been so cruell in their places as others . Now let none say , that because we cannot bow to such unrighteous dealings of corrupt men , or their corrupt Customes , or corrupt Lawes , That therefore we are a people that would have no Law , nor Magistracy at all , as some have falsely accused us : for of this we are cleare before the Lord our God , what ever men may accuse us ●erein , for the Law of God we own in our Conscience , even the Law of the Spirit of Life , which is in Christ Jesus our Lord and Law-giver , by which we are taught , to keepe our Consciences voyde of offence towards God and towards men , by which we are freed from under the power of the Law of sin and death . And by this Law of God in our consciences , are we also taught to be subject to every power our God shall set up over us , by which teaching we know that the powers that be , are ordained of God . And by the same Law of God in our hearts and Consciences , by which we are made to suffer , rather then to obey that which is unjust , by the same Law , and upon the same penalty are we made to be subject and obey every just and wh●lesome Law of man , for Conscience sake ; Therefore , as the ordinance of God , we obey , and owne authoritie in the Nation ; And the Ruler of the people as the Minister of God , for good to such as doe well , but a terror to every evill doer without respect of persons ; so we being guided by the pure Law of God in our consciences , are subject not for wrath , but for Conscience sake ; for he is not a terror to them that do well , and obey God in their Consciences : But if any doe evill , let such feare , for he is the Minister of God , and beares not the sword in vaine . And for this cause we pay tribute , to whom it belongs , and feare to whom feare , honour to whom honour ; And from this we exempt not our selves , more then other people in the same Nation , but desire rather to be examples to others , with all diligence , not speakinq evill of governments as many doe , which will flatter to their faces , but seeking to our God for what authoritie he shall ordaine , that under them we may be godly and quietly governed , without respect of persons . Therefore we might say , as to all the s●verall Rulers that hath arisen in these yeares since we were a people in Gods light , which of them have we reviled or sought to supplant , or what just law , old or new ? ( which hath been just , and according to Scriptures , or a good Conscience ) have we denyed or transgressed ? though from the evill and abuse of all , God hath by his eternall light , and the power of his Spirit , preserved us to this day , glory to our God for evermore ; So our Consciences are cleare towards them that are fallen as to that thing , by whom we so much suffered in their day . And now in Gods dread and feare we are , and in his pure Counsell alone , we desire to be found towards you that are now come up into the seat of government , That if by any meanes , we might not be any occasion of offence , or hardening of your hearts , by our disobedience or denying any of your Laws , which are just , wholesome and good , and according to Gods truth in Scriptures ; Nor , that on the contrary we might provoke our pure eyed , and zealous God and Father , to displeasure against us , by yeelding to any thing whatsoever , or obeying what is any way against his Spirit in our hearts , or the light of Christ in our Consciences . And this at present is our straite way , set before us to walke in towards God , and towards man , and therefore the desire and travaile of our soules is great at this day , that you might be one with God in your Laws and Commands , That so , under you we might be godly and quietly governed , within and without . But if yet , it must be so , that your distance be so great , that with one heart we cannot obey you both , then whether it is better to obey God or men , ( with the light of God in your own consciences ) judge you , therefore if we can but keepe peace with the one of you , we chuse to keepe our everlasting peace with God , and that saving saith that 's held in a pure Conscience ; And our prayers to the father of lights is , for our whole body of Christs Church , and every member thereof , that our hearts may be kept single to him alone , what ever we suffer from men for so doing . Now to those things which some call religious . THough in our selves we make no such distinction , it being that our Consciences are to be exercised in the light and Spirit of Christ , in all we doe towards God , and towards man , and every particular action towards men , God requires that it be done as to him , and to his glory , and not in our own wills , nor in mens wills , nor after their wills , manners , and customes , and commands , but in the will of God alone , revealed in Christ Jesus in Spirit , and in his motion and leadings , which if we misse in , and serve eyther men or our selves therein , and not God , we are accountable to him , as though we had erred in that which the world calls Religion ; therefore , what ever we do to God in Christ , to us is his service and pure religion , and undefiled before God , if we keepe but our conscience unspotted from the world ; though it be but in visiting a fatherless childe , or a widdow , in their affliction , or any other thing which the Spirit of truth , justice and mercy leads us to , and requires of us . But , as the worship of God it selfe , hath relation to him alone , who is a Spirit , and will be worshipped in spirit , and in truth , betwixt him and every particular creature onely known , in matter , measure and manner , time and place . And knowing that the onely wise God , who gives the kingdoms of the earth to whom he will , yea , and may set over them the basest of men , as well as the most vertuous , without controule , if he please so to deale in judgement towards any Nation , yet this hath he reserved as an eternall Scepter in the hand of Jesus our Lord , and by an everlasting Covenant hath he sworne once for all , concerning him , Thou art a King for ever , over the holy people , and his throne is established in their consciences by a perpetuall decree , to all generations , therefore was it never known , that ever he trusted or titled any earthly Prince , with Lord over the faith and consciences of his owne people ; This was ever the S●ns prerogative above the Kings of the earth , and he alone is to be Judge and Law-giver , and correcter , and leader , in that invisible spirituall work of worship , towards God , for he onely knowes the way , and none comes to the Father but by him . It s true , the Pope hath taken upon himselfe , such authority under pretence of the Apostles , even over the faith and consciences of people , and with it hath shed much innocent bloud , which lyes upon his seat , and his line , till God come to enquire for it , and for that end hath set up inquisitions &c. And others after and from that , have erected Courts , and Synods with their fines , and prisons , and tortures , to force the faith and Consciences of people , and they pretend the Apostles also , for this worke . But , this we know that the Apostles was no such men , nor used any such weapons , but deny them therein both the Pope , and they that are risen since ; And expressely deny to be Lords over Gods heritage or over their faith , neither did they preach themselves Lords , and Masters , but Christ Jesus alone the Lord , and themselves servants for Iesus sake , as both their owne words & practise doth testifie ; for saith Paul , Not for that we have dominion over your faith ; And saith Peter , Not for filthy lucre , neither as being Lords over Gods heritage , but as examples to the flock . So we know that from Peter they had it not , nor from Paul , nor from any of the true Ministers of Christ , for their weapons was not carnall but spirituall , nor did they wrestle with flesh , but with spirit ; so all they can get from the Apostles , either in word or practise , is this , That if they be troubled with errors , or profanenesse in their Churches ; Then , if they have the Spirit and power of the Lord Iesus , then to deliver such a one up to Satan , for the destruction of the flesh , that the soule may be saved , and body also in the day of the Lord . And this is not to goales , or gallowes , or inquisitions , or tortures , or fires ; now , had they this spirit and power , they would know that which would convert in deed and truth , and not make hypocrites , or else kill them , but the false Church having not these weapons , nor this spirit and power , is builded with oppression , and upholden with bloud . And in her are found the bloud of all the holy Martyrs of Jesus , as saith the Scriptures , yea , even now is she drunke with bloud , Revel. 18.24 . & 17.6 . So now , this is the thing we say as to the worship of our God , and to the order of it ; In all things it belongs to Christ Iesus our Lord , and to him as sole King & Lord thereof , we cōmit our selves , even the whole man , soule and body , as to all things of that nature . And though there may ari●e power after power , and seeke t● stop us of this liberty and freedome , by acting force and violence upon our outward man , yet are we free , by birth in Christ Iesus , and our inw●rd man they cannot bind , nor can we ever while we abide in that see●e , give up the right of Christ unto any of them ; but this we testifie in all we doe or suffer , that the right is Christs , over our Consciences , and over our worships , and to him alone we confesse before men ; and he hath the name in us ; And though for a time , or times , we yet suffer , yet we know the end must come ; And the Lambe must take the kingdome , and we know him that is true and faithfull , whom the Father hath sealed , and anoynted to be head of the ●hurch which is his body , and to him must the Nations account ; And therefore we say to all the severall powers that comes upon us , we may not deny the Lord in our Consciences , to bow to , or worship in what men shall set up or command ; but he that saves us dayly from our sins . he shall leade us in our worship , and to him we must give the obedience of faith , who gives us faith and power by his Spirit to obey , and who hath wrought all our workes in us and for us , and by whose vertue it is we live , and bring forth to the praise of God , and we are not our owne , nor servants of men but we are bought with a price , that we may serve him for ever ▪ by whom we are redeemed and by whom all men without respect of persons , must eternally be judged , or justified . Therefore we say , this is a priviledge , that no man should be hindered of , ( to wit ) the liberty of his Conscien●e towards his God , but that an universall lib●●ty for all sorts of people , to worship God , according as Christ shall open mens eyes to see the truth ▪ and as he shall perswade their hearts , by his Spirit , seeing no man without Christ can doe any thing in this case acceptable to God , neither can one man worship in the measure of another , but in his owne measure , as he receives of God in Christ Jesus faith and strength , and Spirit , for it must be in Spirit , and of faith , else it is sin , in Gods sight , what ever men thinke thereof . And this is just and equall in the sight of God , and all reasonable men , and that which I know no understanding man or woman would be limitted in , seeing all have immortall soules from God , and to him alone must account for them ▪ and not to men ; That so every soule may stand and fall , to his owne Master in this case ▪ seeing none can save his brother , when he hath misled him , nor account to God for him ; therefore he is no wise man ( in our eyes ) who will leave the light of Christ that once knows it , to follow another mans opinion ; And seeing every man would have this libertie for himselfe , why should he goe about to deny it to his brother , how is that just or equall , amongst men ? And how doth it answer the Law of Christ as Christians , who hath commanded , That all things whatsoever you would that men should doe unto you , doe ye even so to them , for this is the Law and the Prophets ; Now if you be not come so far in equitie , as to answer the Law and the Prophets , how will you answer Christ , you that professe him in words . And were it not that Nations , and men were drunke , and bewitched with the fornication of that Scarlet coloured whore , they would foresee the danger of taking that upon them which belongs to Christ alone , it being so many have been broken on the same Rock , and reason it selfe might shew them how safe it is , not to be too forward in things of that nature , which God hath not called them to ; And also it being so much contrary to that just principle in man which would lead every man to do to another as he would be done unto ; And would teach every man that he ought to give up himselfe to his God , in all spirituall matters ; And that so he should suffer every other creature also ; And seeing that there is no infallibilitie amongst ●en , without the immediate manifestation of Christ Jesus his light and Spirit in them , but that since men tooke that upon them , even to sit as Lords and Judges over faith and conscience ; The Lord hath scattered them in this thing , and confounded them into so many minds and judgements , that he that is subject to follow every change in these latter dayes , shall scarcely abide in one opinion a yeare to an end ; which things duely weighed , might stay the hast of every reasonable man from forceing that upon the Conscience of another , which himselfe is not infallible in , and for which he must account to God for all soules that erre through him , and so perish , in gainsaying Gods witnesse . And this would be wisdome , with God , first to search in themselves whether they have tha● Call from God himselfe , to force any , or they doe it to answer the desires of others , or to hold up a tradition , and so might they come to see , what they serves , and whether it will beare persecution or bloud-shedding at t●e day of Judgement ; And prove whether you have that which is infallible to force them to , or it be but thought , and opinion of your selves , or others , seeing its so common a thing for Rulers and Teachers to joyne in forceing people that are under them to erre , and for which so many have been confounded and cast out , and so that all might come to prove their worke , and bring it to the light , to see whether it be wrought in God , and if he will owne it with his light , which is pure in their Conscience , which is an equall rule , and try what power and Spirit it is that God hath made Lord & King , and Law-giver and Leader in all his worship ; and if they have not this , then it is the old persecuter , and murtherer , which uses to set people on fire that know not God in Spirit ; And if you have that Spirit which God hath given the power to in his Church , then its gentle , drawing and powerfull , without forceable imposing , or killing , nor doth he ever compell against faith and Conscience . Now there be many particular things as to Gods worship and things thereto pertaining , which the men of this age would impose upon us , yea , and force them upon great penalties , which the Spirit of Christ doth not lay upon us as matters of faith or practise , nor ever did o●daine them in any age , nor command them to b● observed in his Church , as men now impos●●hem , but the contrary we find from the Spirit of Christ , both in the oldness of letter , and i● newness of life ; So these things we canno● bow ●o , nor worship in , for conscience sake , ●onscience towards God conscience towards the holy men of God in the holy life , and conscience towards the Scripture of truth ; for of all these we make conscience , in their time and place , in which God the Father of all hath brought them forth to serve him . As men would impose upon our Consciences to come once a weeke , to such a great house in their Parish , which they call a parish Church , and there we must observe what one man shall reade , preach or pray , for two or three houres that day , by an usuall forme , and this man will have a Clarke , and he shall say Amen at the end of such a sentence , or part of his prayer or speech , and to this Church , and to this worship must we be bound while we dwell in that parish ; And either the tythes of all we have , or so much a yeare set maintenance , must be payd to the man calling himselfe a Minister of Christ ; And so much a yeare to his Clarke for saying Amen after him , in money and egges , and the like ; And if this we doe constantly , we may live peaceably by them , and goe under the name of a good Christian , and a religious man , but if we faile in any of this , but especially in that of tythes or wages ; then they call us heretickes , and complaine of us to the Magistrate , or sue us at Law , till they have cast our bodyes into prisons , and taken the spoyle of our goods . Now God having revealed his true worship to u● i● the light of Christ , which is is in spi●it and truth , and called us out of carnall things ●or which there is no Scripture , we ●●nn● for Conscience sake , worship any more therein . Now , neyther by the Spirit of Christ in us , nor by letter of Scriptures without us , nor by the example of all the holy men of God that hav● walked before us , can we for Conscience sake owne , nor uphold that for the true and spirituall worship of God in spirit and truth , neither to repaire their house , maintaine their Priest , nor his Clarke , as they would impose upon us . Now some have said , What would you have no Church , Minister , preaching , praying , nor none of this worship , nor maintenance , &c. What would you have ? We say yes , we own a Church , ministring , preaching , praying , and the maintenance that thereto belongs , but we would have them to be of God , and after his will in Christ Jesus , and not after the will and traditions of men , contrary both to God , good men and the Scriptures of truth ; For we reade of a Church of Christ in Scriptures , but it was in God the Father , and our Lord Jesus Christ . And we read of a ministry of Christ in Scripture , made not of man , neither by man , but by the revelation of the Son of God in them ; And the Gospel or Ministry that they preached , was not after man , nor received of man , neither was they taught it , but by revelation of Jesus Chist . And we read of a Maintenance they had , which was to live of the Gospel ; And the spiritualls which they sowed freely without money or money-worth , brought them forth fruits freely , both in spirituall things , and worship towards God , and in carnall things towards their outward wants , and as they planted , so they eate ; And where the plant grew , and the soule prospered , till it could bring forth fruit freely , there they need not to sue them and to take it by spoyle , but of the world they looked for nought but persecution , nor ever coveted or compelled any such thing from any creature , no not where they had sowne and planted , unlesse it grew in spirit and life to God , they looked not to reape any thing but losse , if that which they had sowne withered in the way , therefore did they watch for the soule , and not for tythes , piggs , and eggs and geese , and sheaves , &c. but that the soule prospered towards God , that was their prize ; And to make the Gospel without charge , that was their reward , if they did it freely and willingly , but if not willingly , then a necessitie was layd upon them , and woe was their portion . And these went on and prospered , gathering Churches out of the world into God , from place to place , even where they was not sent for ; they went freely as they was moved of the holy Spirit : And if anywhere they came was found worthy to receive them , with them they might eate freely what was set before them , where the Spirit was free , but they did not seat themselves in a Towne , or say , this is my Parish , and this is my hire , so much a yeare , but wandred to and fro having no certaine dwelling place , nor was their bellyes any part of the bargain , as to coming , preaching , staying ▪ or going , as to any place . And when they had gathered a Church into the Spirit and life of Christ Iesus , which brought them to meete together , then they did not Lord it over them in faith or conscience , neither was they called their Masters , but still servants for Christ sake ; nor did they get a glasse and set up , and if any spoke in their time , while they was speaking , say they broke their peace , and send them to prison , but said , all might prophesie , that all might be edified ; and it was joy to them to heare any to speake by the Spirit , either son or daughter . and some might speake , and some might judge , of what was spoken ; And if any thing was revealed to him that stood by , the first was to hold his peace ; and the Spirit of the Prophets is subject to the Prophets . Now this Church and its order we owne , where ever we find it to be after God , and in him ; but when we meete with a company of people that denyes all this ; And if any be moved in the Spirit ▪ eyther to speake while they are speaking , or judge what they have spoken ; Then the teacher cryes away to prison with him , and the people runs upon us all a heapes , ready to pull us to pieces ; this we owne not , nor doth Christ , nor the Scriptures owne it to be his Church , t●is is not the Spirit of the Prophets , nor subject to the Prophets , but the rude Spirit which tumul●ed upon the Apostles and Prophets of old . So here is somewhat declared of the ministry we owne , and his maintenance , but of such a thing as a Clarke we read not in Scriptures , neither name nor office . And now let none thinke it strang● or an error in us , to compare & weigh and ●ry and prove things , for we are christians , & have received the spirit that is of God , that we may know the things that are given to us of God , from things that are of the world ; And we may not receive every one for a Minister of Christ , who tells us he is , nor that for a Church that every one calls a Church , nor that for worship which every one would impose upon us ; for things had need of trying , and Spirits also , and we hold fast that which is good Its true in the world there be many Churches , and many heads , Gods many , and Lords many , many faiths ▪ and many opinions , but in Christ Iesus 〈◊〉 called to unity in all these things , so 〈◊〉 we say with the Churches of Christ in ●cripture , to us there is on● body , one Spirit , one 〈◊〉 , one faith , one baptisme , one God and fathe● of all , who is above all , and through all , and in us all . And this one God in us is a Spirit , and will be worshipped in spirit , & in truth , so of us he requires truth , and that we worship no other things , nor bow to them ; though all men have not this faith but can follow any thing in their worship , which is the fashion of the Nation where they live , but this we are called out of ; And into that one worship we are come which is in spirit and truth , for in that is the father worshipped , and God hath sought us out of the many worships that are in the world , in Spirit to worship him ; and Christ saith , these are the true worshippers that so worship , and ●nto this hath Christ led us , and in it he ownes us in his Spirit , and the Father ownes us , and testifies to us in every enlightned conscience , and in this we are come to the Spirits of just men , and they owne us ; And the letter of Scriptures it ownes us also , and in this we have peace , though persecuted . But in all these , we read not in all the Gospel worship , of any Temple made with hands , to bind men to , nor Parish Churches , nor preaching by the houre , nor for so much a yeare , nor that ever Minister of Christ tooke tyths , nor their hearers gave them , but confessed Christ come , and a free Gospel , and said ●oth the Priesthood that tooke tyths , and the Law by which they received them was disanulled by the sufferings of Christ ; nor doe we read of sprinkling Infants , and calling that baptizing them into the Church , nor doe we read of their singing Davids words in a meeter , nor praying in a forme , nor a Clarke to lead the Psalme , and say Amen ; And much more we might mention , which was never used so in the true Church but is come to a forme since Popery came up , & the Scripture beares no testimony thereto , as now these things are used , and all that can be truely said for them is long custom , but from plain Scriptures they cannot prove them . Indeed we read in the Scriptures of truth , of the Gospel preaching , but it was not limitted to one house , nor by a glasse , but from house to house , and Citie to Citie , and that by the Spirit , and their worship was in Spirit , they prayed with the Spirit , and they sung with the Spirit , and h● that had a Psalme sung it with the Spirit , and with understanding also ; And they worshipped , and preached in fields and mountains , and streets , & schooles , and markets , and they prayed by Sea-shores , or in any place where God moved and led them by the Spirit of Iesus ; And all this we owne which the Scriptures testifies to , in our measure ; And this is that we would have all brought to tryall , and that worship owned , which Christ and the Scriptures ownes , and none forced against it , by any meanes whatsoever , which is come up since the Scriptures was written , and the Apostles times . And this motion , is not unreasonable , hurtfull or dangerous to any , especially ( we may say ) in this Nation , how can it be denyed , wherein all other formes in words professe the Scriptures to be a rule for all to walk by ? And to you all ●his is our motion , that the Scriptures may be heard what it saith without wresting , and what sort of worship it testifies of , let that have the name to be of God , and then let none be forced from it ; and if you deny to be tryed in your faith and profession , by that you have so long called your rule and touchstone , and then reproach and persecute them that walke in it , will not your own words judge you , before men , and shall not you walke under condemnation from God in your owne Consciences . And thus in short have we shewed our desires , and what we would have in this thing , which might free every tender Conscience from oppression , and the Magistrates of the Nations from the guilt thereof before God . Will you call your selves Christian Magistrates , and Christian Ministers , and set your selves against what Christ hath wrought by the power of his Spirit ▪ and is now working , and thinke you ●re doing him service , when you are grieving his Spirit , and persecuting him in his members , for doing that to which he immediately leads them now , as in the dayes of old ; Is not this in effect to say , depart from our Nations , we will have none of thy wayes , nor shall any under our government , or that will follow our teachings obey thy Spirit if we can stop them by our power , is not this to withstand his appearance , and resist the power that you professe to rule for . Doe you not read in the Acts of the Apostles , what labour and suffering they underwent to bring people out of carnall rudiments and ordinances of men , and to bring them to the worship in spirit and truth alone , both as to time , place , and order ; how did they run in hazard of their lives , into Temples , Synagogues , and set places of worship , to bring them out of Temples made with hands , to worship where the Spirit should lead them , without respect of places ; that so the words of the Lord Iesus might be fulfilled , who had said , Not in the Temple , nor in the mountaine , but in spirit and in truth should the Father be worshipped ; and did not Stephen lose his life for telling them that God that made the world dwelt not in Temples made with hands ; and Paul suffered fo● the same testimony , and they told them the most high God , could not be worshipped with mens hands , nor carnall things , but in s●irit . ●nd in ●ruth ; And how often was they tumul●ed and beaten , and their bloud shed for this test●mony , against the beggerly rudiments , & 〈◊〉 ordinances of men , both of Iewes , who had their ordinances from the letter ▪ and ●●so the Gentiles who followed their customers , That out of all carnall things they might bring them , to follow God in spirit , and therein alone to serve him . And while you professe all this in words , will you be the men that will deny the very same in workes , and shall you be guiltlesse , shall not both Iewes and Gentiles rise in Iudgement against you , and condemne you , who acts against knowledge , Scriptures , and your owne profession ? And is it not so with you Rulers and Teachers of this generation ? what force and cruelty hath been used to bring people back to your Idol temples made with hands , there to worship and no where else , and to repaire them , and to bow to the customes of men there set up , for which there is neither Scriptures nor example ; even too many to mention , what imprisoning and ●ormenting of the spirituall worshippers of the living God , hath there been in these last dayes for these things ? what sufferings have some gone through , but for testifying against these traditious carnal , & saying the Church must be in God , and that every one must come to be led by the spirit alone in all their whole worships , and so give the kingdome & leading of his people to the leading of Christ that spirit againe , in all things pertaining to worship , life and godlinesse ▪ hath not this been a dangerous thing in thi● age to beare this record of God in Christ , 〈◊〉 to become his witnesse ? how ma●y 〈◊〉 lost their liberties , their estates , and 〈…〉 lives for this testimony in word 〈◊〉 ●●●c●ise , which reconciles to God in all 〈◊〉 whole worship ? and yet the same is read and preached , every first day among them that doe this to such as live the life thereof for Iesus sake ; these are not the workes of Christians indeed , in the Apostles sence , but of such as know not God , nor the word of reconciliation , have not . How many have suffered in this age , but for reproving sin in the gate , cursing , pride , lying , and swearing ; how have some been beaten , puld and hailed , and dragg'd through streets and channells , and before Iudgement seats , and to prisons , for no other things ; how many have wofully suffered , but for preaching repētance through streets , towns , and markets , in the name of the Lord , and by the Call of his holy Spirit ; How many hundreds have been imprisoned for preaching the everlasting Gospel of Jesus freely , in Townes , Temples , streets , and markets , and from house to house , which was the manner of Gods messengers in the name of his Son ever to doe , and for which they suffered ; How many have had their cloaths rent off their backs , and been shamefully beaten till they have been left for dead , and afterward carried to prison , for but asking a question , or speaking a word in a Steplehouse , while a man hath been speaking things doubtfull , or not true , though this was the way of old , in which the servants of Christ walked , and by which he gathered the Churches into God in Spirit , and out of false worships ; And it was the manner of the Apostles to enter into Synagogues and places of worships both of Jewes and Gentiles on their Sabbath dayes , and openly dispute there with them before their hearers , and then whose hearts God touched , lest their carnall worships and clave to Christ in spirit , which is now become a greater offence to this generation , then ever it was eyther to Jewes or Gentiles ; for I never read that simply for so disputing , they either beat them or haled them to prison , though they went sometimes three Sabbath dayes together into one Synagogue , yea , the fiery Jews , who was set on mischiefe against that way , yet this they could suffer in their Synagogue , as is testified Acts 17.2 . and saith the Scrip●ures , this was his manner . And in Acts●8 . 4 . it is said , he reasoned in the Synagogue every Sabbath day at Corinth , where he continued a yeare and six months teaching the word of God among them , vers. 11. Now hath not this been the great offence of these dayes , yea , I may say the chiefest crime which the servants of Jesus Christ hath suffered for , in this age , and none scarce eyther ruler or teacher is able to beare it once , which they could beare a yeare and above , among Iewes and heathens ; so that this way of Christ by which the Churches was gathered & called in the Apostles time , is become more abominable in the sight of those that cals themselves Christians , then it was eyther to Iewes or heathens ; And when neither laws of Iewes , Gentiles , nor heathens , that was made in times of popery , would answer their wills against this , then ha●e they made new Lawes of their owne against this practise , which themselves read , believe and preach ; and this we cannot owne , that men should withstand that in workes which they professe in words , and seeke to impose it upon others who serve God therein by the Spirit of Iesus , and then call themselves Christians , and say the Scriptures is their rule , who cannot beare it in them that practise it in obedience to Christ Iesus . And this is that we contend for in all our sufferings and actings , in the simplicity of our hearts , that our Lord and Master Iesus Christ , may have his Prerogative Royall restored to him , over his body , the Church , and every particular member thereof , his Lordship , and Mastership , given to him alone of all his children , from least to the greatest , and that none else force it , or require it from him , but that his headship alone over his Church , his leadings , and the seate of his Iudgements , in every redeemed soule and conscience , ma● be restored to him , and that he m●y have 〈◊〉 name and authority therein , and that none may presume to take his authority to themselves , while they give him faire words , & call him , Lord , Lord , but neither doe his will in their own consciences , nor suffer them that would ; This I say , is that we seeke now at the hands of men that are called Christians , which by his own bloud , and by the precious suff●rings in many of his obedient servants of old , he once purchased out of the hands of the old persecuters ▪ and gave it as inheritance to his seed after him to all generations , to call him head and Lor● in the● and over them , in all things pertaining to worship and conscience , as the Scripture of truth is evident . And this we say in his behalfe , and in the power of his name , where ever he sends us , that though his adversary of old , hath taken this his purchased possession from him , and now sits where he ought not , commandding in conscience , over his subjects and creatures , compelling and forceing , to obey his traditions and law from a carnall precept , or tradition of men , yet we say the right is Christs alone , and the whole kingdome of God in every conscience he hath purchased with his bloud and great sufferings of old ; therefore we say to all sorts of people , looke to him and walke in his light , all that looke to be saved ; for we say he is a great and mighty one , who though he have been as one gone a far jorney for a time , yet he is returned , and hath seene how his deare servants have been entreated , and his little children spoyled of their birth-right , and cast out of their purchased possession , and heavenly kingdome , and now strangers rule over their tender consciences , and s●●ke to defile them , with adultery and Idolatry , which is against their spirituall birth , and breathing , and himselfe robbed of his authoritie , and Scepter of his everlasting Dominion , for which he will tread nations in his wrath , and people in his hot displeasure , even for Z●on● sake the Citie of his glory , and he will spoyle the spoyler , and lead Captivity captive , and so will he make way for his inheritance , to come into their habitation of ●est ▪ And this we say to ●ll people , GIVE VP , feare God , and gi●e glory to his Name , for the houre of hi● Judgements is come , and he will have dominion as of old , and his purchased possession as in anc●ent dayes ; But especially to you who are called Christians , and mention his name , and call him Lord , and profess the Scriptures , in words , which testifies of him , his sufferings , and his purchase through bloud , and the eternall anoynting of the Father , sworne unto him , by an everlasting Covenant , that he alone shall sit on the spirituall throne , over the house of David for ever ▪ that he may with his spirituall leadings gather the out-casts of Israel , and present to God all the precious among the people ; have you not read you professing Priests and Rulers , that it is he alone that is the light of the world , and that God hath given him for a witnesse to the people , a leader and commander ; that its he that 's appointed for a light to them that sit in dakness , and in the shadow of death , to guide their feete in the way of peace ; did God ever set any at the right hand of power but he alone , that he might make his foes his footstoole ; of whom he saith when he brings him into the world , Let all the Angels of God worship him ; have you not read that it s he alone that purgeth the Conscience from dead works , And will you not suffer him to reigne and governe therein ; hath not he quickned every living soule , and created anew , every free Spirit , and would you take and keepe the kingdome therein , out of his hand , and rule there for another , or your selves , with force and cruelty ; Is not this he for whom the Sabbath was made , and all the ordinances under heaven speakes his dominion ▪ And will you now read this and professe , and withstand him in the Consciences of his tender people , and deny him to rule in his Church alone ? have you not read what God hath said of him , and his enemies in the second Psalme ; nay , are not all the Scriptures his , and testifie to him alone , as head over all , and ruler in all his Saints ? And as you have heard ▪ read , and professed , his dominion more then heathens , and yet goe on to keepe it from him ; so to you is his first appear●nce , to seeke his owne of you ; And if you persist to deny him , it s you must drinke the Cup first , that the heathens may heare and feare his name fr●m farre , and his rising appeare to all the ends of the world , that its he alone who is from everlasting ▪ at whose name every knee must bow , and tongue confesse , to the right of his inheritance . And this further I lay before you people of this Nation , who have long been crying for peace and settlement in the Nations , and in your Religion , and you cry out of so many divisions , and so many religions ; I say to you all , how should you be otherwise , when you will not come to the one religion that is of God , and was in the beginning with God , and brought forth in time by Iesus Christ , for the bringing all into God againe , and reconciling all sorts of scattered people , who are scattered in the imaginations and customes of carnall spirited men , from God the one good thing , into many things , rudiments , and traditions , wherein you can neither be reconciled to God , nor one to another ; for how is it like that ever that religion can reconcile to God , which sets you a killing one another to uphold it ? are you like to obtaine peace in that Spirit which in your hearts is the cause of enmity and warre or obtaine unitie from that roote , which hath thus scattered you in its fruits and off spring ; This is like the false Prophets of old , who would bite with their teeth , and cry peace ▪ Nay this is not the way of settlement or lasting peace , THAT , you must have in returning ; and making peace with the Spirit of Jesus , you must kisse the Son and so make peace , for this hath been seene concerning you of these Nations , that if you owne not the light of Christ in spirit and truth , that he may lead you out of these many things which are not of ●od , and reconcile you to God in spirit and truth , there to worship him alone who is a Spirit , you will ere long be in bloud , eyther amongst your selves , one against another , or else i● the bloud of the innocent Lambs of Chri●t , which will not be for your peace with God , for he that hath letted your peace and settlement , is not yet taken away , nor his power , who is that old bloud-sucker , and divider of Nations , people , and tongues , abou● faith and religions , and with which a fire hath often been kindled ; nor can his power be stopped , but by the Spirit of the Lambe of God , which takes away sin , and breakes downe the wall of separation , which is made about ordinances , litterall , ceremoniall , and traditionall , which can never cease , but as men turne to the Spirit of the Lord Iesus , That with the light of peace and truth you may be led into peace , truth , and unity , that wrath may be done away , and the ground thereof , and you and your religion may be setled on the foundation of truth , Christ Jesus the chiefe corner stone , and not upon , dayes , times , meats , drinks , and apparell , and other things which will perish with the using , and so will they that worship and not in the leadings of Christ alone ▪ and God will shake the Idolls of peoples minds , and all the glory of flesh , that he alone may be exalted in the earth , as he is in heaven . So if you will have peace you must come to the Son of peace ▪ and if you will have establishment , you must come to the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles of God ; for I say , many have been about to build a house for God to dwell in , with carnall things , and rudiments , and this they would bind him to , ( & his people , ) who is a Spirit , and his house must be built of spirituall men and women , who like living stones must grow up in his owne light and vertue into a holy temple in the Lord ; In which you must be builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit , Eph. 2.20 , 21 , 22. And this is Gods house built by Christ alone , with that which is elect and precious , not with gold and garments , or observations of perishing things , but with redeemed soules by the bloud of Iesus out of their vaine conversation , and gathered into the Spirit of truth and life , and power , to worship God who is a Spirit , in spirit & truth ; and this is Gods house at this day , which was his house in the Apostles dayes , who dwells not in Temples made with hands , as saith the Apostles , nor with mens hands is worshipped , but with him that 's poore in spirit , and of a broken and contrite heart , to him will I looke ▪ saith the Lord , and there will I dwell ; And the bodyes of his holy people are the Temples of the living God , as he hath said , I will dwell in them , and walke in them , and I will be their God , and they shall be my people , 2 Cor. 6.16 . And untill you come to this building of God in your selves , God will not dwell with you in peace , but all your buildings will he cōfound , and not accept your sacrifice , and then the Devill will enrage you against Gods house and spirituall building , even his poore despised people them to destroy ; like Cain when his sacrifice was not accepted in his owne will . But if you turne to the Lord who is that Spirit , then will he cause his light to shine in your hearts , to give you an heavenly understanding , and he will put his Spirit in your inward parts , and fill you with heavenly power , and will let you see the lively Image of truth and peace ; and he will take away the vaile of the Covering that is spead over all Nations , from which arises all their carnall comprehensions , and carnall worships of the invisible spirituall God , and he will also swallow up death in victory , which now worketh in the Nations , to kill one another about religion and worship , without spirit and life , so will you come to be taught his true worship , who is a Spirit , and become true worshippers in Spirit , and so grow up in his knowledge , and he will owne your worship , whom as yet you have neither heard hi● voyce at any time , nor seene his shape . And Christ saith of such worshippers , You worship you know not what ; but the true worshippers worship in faith , and know what they worship , and such the Father ● now seeking to worship him , saith Christ Iesus , John 4.22 , 23 , 24. And this is the thing oh England , tha● concernes thy peace with thy God in thi● thy day , who art Combred with many things , about Christ and worship , but neglects the one thing needfull , for thy everlasting peace and establishment , and to bring thee into that worship of Spirit , withou● which God cannot accept thee , and that religion which is pure , and undefiled in the sight of God , which will keepe thee unspotted in the world , which till thou turn● to , thou wilt be working against the Spirit of God , through the darknesse of enmity , that is in thee , and he will certainly worke against thee , except thou repent . THE END . J. N. R. H. Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A52677e-150 1 John 3.27 . Isa. 5.6 . 2 Chro. 19.6 Isa. 6.9 . Mat. 12.8 . Heb. 2.10 . Dan. 4.25 . Acts 2.36 . 1 Tim. 6.15 . Isa. 11.4 . Isa. 40.11 . Psal. 45.7 . Jer. 23.5 , 6. Luk. 1.24 . Isa. 6.3 . 2 Sam. 23.4 Isa. 32.1 , 2. Eccles. 10.16 , 17. Psal. 69.9 . Lam. 3.14 . Rev. 21.24 Isa. 5.21 . Jer. 17.5 . John 5.44 . Isa. 30.1 . Rom. 8.14 . Gal. 5.18 . Mat. 17.5 2 Cor. 10.6 . Isa. 28.7 . Jere. 23. Amos 2.4 . Amos 7.14 . Jerem. 23. Isa. 1.9 Hester 3. Dan. 6. Dan. 3. Acts 5.28 , 29. John 16.2.3 . 2 Tim. 1.13 . Job 32.21 , 22. James 2. Dan. 3.21 . Lev. 18.30 . Ier. 23.10 . Mat. 5.34 Iames 5.12 . Lev. 19.12 . Mat. 5.34 . Mat. 5. Isa. 59.4 . Isa. 28.15 . Jer. 9.3 , 4 5 Pro. 12.19.22 . Pro. 29.12 . Psal. 40.4 . Deut. 19.16 17 , 18 , 19 , 20 1 Cor. 7.39 . M●la . 2.15 . Ma●h. 19.6 . M●th. 19.8 . Mah. 19.4 , 5. Rom. 8.2 . Nom. 13. Acts 4.19 . 2 C●r . 1.12 . 1 Tim. 3.9 . James 1.27 . John 4.23 , 24. Dan. 4.17 . Heb. 1.8 , 9. Isa. 11.1 , 2. 2 Cor. 4.5 . 2 Cor. 1.24 . 1 Pet. 5.3 . 2 Cor. 10.4 . Eph. 6.12 . 1 Cor. 4.5 . Mic. 3.10 . Col. 1.18 . Phil. 2.10 . Rev. 17.14 . John 6.27 . Col. 1.18 . Mat. 1.21 . Phil. 2.13 . 1 Cor. 6.10 . Rom. 14.23 Rom. 14.4 . Mat. 7.12 . 1 Cor. 2.10 , 11. John 3.20 , 21. Rom. 7.6 . 1 Thes. 1.1 . Gala. 1.16 . Gal. 1.11.12 . 1 Cor. 9.14 . 1 Cor. ● . 17 , 18. 2 Cor. 4.5 . 1 Cor. 14 29 30 , 31. 1 Cor. 2.12 . 1 John 4.1 . 1 Thes. 5.21 . 1 Cor. 8.5 , 6. 〈◊〉 4 , 5 , 6. Heb. 7. John 4.21 , 24. Acts 7.48 . Acts 17.24 . Jer. 10.2 , 3. Isa. 55.4 . Luke 1.79 . Heb. 1.6 . Mica . 3. Col. 2.14 , 15 16 , 17 , 20 , 21 , 22. Heb. 10.11 . Isa. 66.2 . Isa. 25.7 , 8. 2 Cor. 3.16 , 17 , 18. John 5 37. Luke 19 . 42· Luke 10.41 , 42. James 1.27 . 
A86665	----	The immediate call to the ministry of the Gospel, witnessed by the spirit: vvith a true declaration of the persecution and suffering of Richard Hubberthorne, James Parnell, Ann Blayling, by Will. Pickering, who is Mayor of Cambridge. Also an answer to divers letters and mittimusses, against the said prisoners, answered; by them who are sufferers for the truth, and for the testimony of Jesus, Richard Hubberthorn, James Parnell. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A86665 of text R207636 in the English Short Title Catalog (Thomason E812_13). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 47 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 8 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A86665 Wing H3225 Thomason E812_13 ESTC R207636 99866675 99866675 167936 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A86665) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 167936) Images scanned from microfilm: (Thomason Tracts ; 123:E812[13]) The immediate call to the ministry of the Gospel, witnessed by the spirit: vvith a true declaration of the persecution and suffering of Richard Hubberthorne, James Parnell, Ann Blayling, by Will. Pickering, who is Mayor of Cambridge. Also an answer to divers letters and mittimusses, against the said prisoners, answered; by them who are sufferers for the truth, and for the testimony of Jesus, Richard Hubberthorn, James Parnell. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. Parnell, James, 1637?-1656. [2], 13, [1] p. Printed for Giles Calvert, at the Black-Spread-Eagle at the west end of Pauls, London, : 1654. Annotation on Thomason copy: "Septemb: 26". Reproduction of the original in the British Library. eng Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662 -- Early works to 1800. Parnell, James, 1637?-1656 -- Early works to 1800. Persecution -- Early works to 1800. A86665 R207636 (Thomason E812_13). civilwar no The immediate call to the ministry of the Gospel, witnessed by the spirit:: vvith a true declaration of the persecution and suffering of Ri Hubberthorn, Richard 1654 9443 6 0 0 0 0 0 6 B The rate of 6 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the B category of texts with fewer than 10 defects per 10,000 words. 2007-05 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2007-06 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2008-05 John Latta Sampled and proofread 2008-05 John Latta Text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-09 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion THE IMMEDIATE CALL To the Ministery of the GOSPEL , witnessed by the SPIRIT : VVith a true Declaration of the persecution and suffering of Richard Hubberthorne James Parnell , Ann Blaying , by Will Pickering , who is Mayor of CAMBRIDGE . Also an Answer to divers Letters and Mittimusses , against the said Prisoners , answered ; By them , who are sufferers for the truth , and for the testimony of JESUS , RICHARD HUBBERTHORN , JAMES PARNELL . LONDON , Printed for Giles Calvert , at the Black-Spread-Eagle at the West end of Pauls , 1654. The immediate Call to the Ministery of the Gospel , witnessed by the Spirit . WIth a true Declaration of the persecution and suffering for the Gospel , under the tyranny of the Mayor of Cambridge ; which Gospel of Jesus Christ , whereever it was made manifest , the testimony of it was ever sealed with bloud , persecution and sufferings , and it is the same now , working the same effect , and bearing the same seal , as is witnessed . And also an answer to several false reproaches given forth in writing , in three Letters under the hand of Will Pickering Mayor of Cambridge : which herein is discovered and laid open , that so the truth may be cleared , and all Magistrates , Priests and People may discern truth from scandals , and that all simple hearts and minds may be informed to receive the truth freely , without stumbling at reproaches , through which the Prophets , and Apostles , and Servants of Jesus Christ did bear witnesse to the truth , Isai. 51. 7. Heb. 11. 26. esteeming the reproaches of Christ greater riches than the pleasures of the world , and the Apostles were to goe forth to him without the Camp , bearing his reproach , Heb. 13. 13. If ye be reproached for the Name of Christ , happy are ye , for the Spirit of God , and of glory , resteth upon you , 1 Pet. 4. 14. From one whom the Lord , by his eternal Spirit , hath called to bear witnesse to his Truth , and to his Word , and Gospel , made manifest in me by the revelation of Jesus Christ , whose life and conversation hath been blamelesse in the world , whom no outward Law did ever take hold upon for evill doing , but was strict and zealous in an outward profession of God and Christ , exceeding many in wisdome and knowledge in the letter of the Scripture , and had a form of godlinesse , but the power of it I was ignorant of , and was a stranger to the life of God , which the Saints lived in , which spoke forth the Scripture according to their measure , and the Word of God , which the Saints spoke from , I was ignorant of , though I knew the letter , and was a Minister of the letter before I knew the power of the Word of God ; but when the living powerful Word of God was made manifest in me by his mighty power , then I was made silent from speaking any thing of God from that knowledge and wisdom , which was natural , and did arise out of the earth , in which stood my zeal , and profession , and form of godlinesse , which was all without , in words , and outward appearance , and outward righteousnesse , and outward holinesse , & the earthly nature standing , which all outward profession and forms lodge in : but when the Word of God by his mighty power was made manifest within me , spoken from his own mouth , which word was in my heart as a fire which did burn up corruption and uncleannesse , and work out the defiled nature , and by it was all the powers of the earth brought down , and the earth it self shaken , by it the deviss were made to tremble , and were cast out , and in that day did the keepers of the house tremble , and the strong man cry bitterly , and the just Judgements of God did fall upon that nature I lived in , and the terrors and wrath of the Lord took hold upon me , till the flesh was wasted off the bones , that I could number my bones day and night , the terrors of the Lord was upon me , revealed from heaven against all unrighteousnesse , against all my own rightcousnesse , and all my familiars and acquaintaince stood afarre off me , for I was a wonder to all them who lived in that nature that I had lived in , for they knew not the judgements of God against sin , which then was upon me , because of disobedience to the light which did make manifest sin and evill ; but hearing the Word of the Lord in power spoken within me , did confound all my wisdome and knowledge , and made me to be a fool to the wisdome of the world , and to deny the wisdome , and to deny my self , and my own will , and by this Word was I called to come out of my own country , kindred , and fathers house , to doe the Lords work , in obedience to his command , and to stand in his will out of my own will , for I knew the voice of God which called me ; and for this cause did I leave father and mother , lands and living , earthly honour , and earthly riches , which I had , and might have lived in , if I had been disobedient to the command of God , but the Lord called me forth by his mighty power to bear witnesse to him in the world , and to declare and preach forth the Gospel of the Son of God , according to my measure , as it was made manifest within me , and by his Word to declare against all sin , and iniquity , and unrighteousness of men , and in obedience to him who called me did I goe , as I was moved by his eternal Spirit , into severall parts of this Nation , Townes , and Cities , and Countries , in the North and West part of England and Wales , bearing testimony to the truth , and in some parts sealing the testimony with my bloud , and by imprisonments , in persecution , in perils , often under tryals of cruel mockings , scourgings , and revilings , enduring the contradiction of sinners , and doe not account my life dear unto my self , that I may render to the Lord a good accompt of my faithfulnesse , in obedience to him who hath called me into his work , and vineyard , and this is all the wages that the Ministers of the Gospel receive from the world , being accounted as deceivers , yet true , as having nothing , yet possessing all things , as poor , yet making many rich , The servant is not greater than his Lord , John 15. 20. who hath suffered the same things , and hath left a good example , and if it be the will of God that we suffer with him in the obedience to him , are we made willing , not onely unto bonds , but unto death , who doe now bear his reproach ; and by the Spirit of the Lord was I moved , in obedience to him , to come to this Town , where some did receive the testimony of the truth , where I stayed certain dayes , and we had certain meetings publickly from house to house , and the hands of the persecutors was then bound by the mighty power of God , and they limited from acting the persecution which was in their hearts , which now they have acted so farre as their power doth reach , but the Sea must keep its bounds , and cannot break them . Then I passed forth of the Town , as I was moved of the Lord , to another people , till again I was moved to come into the Town , not knowing when I came in whether I should stay two dayes in the Town , but waiting in the will of God , out of my own will , I came , as I was moved , and laboured in travel night and day in the Lords work and service , to make the Gospel of Christ without charge : And coming into the Town upon the 21 day of the six moneth at night , and lay at a friends house in the Town , and in the morning , as I went into the street in the market place , two men followed me , and commanded me to goe with them two before the Mayor , who when I came before him , came unto me , & violently took off my hat & threw it upon the ground and asked me whence I came , and where I had lived , and of what calling I was , and what I came thither for ? unto which I gave an accompt , and said , that if I had broken any Law , or if any man can lay any thing to my charge , let them prove it , and act the Law upon me according to the offence , but none could prove any thing . Then the Mayor asked me , if I would goe out of the Town , else I should be whipped out . Then I answered , when the Lord calls me out I shall goe , for I stand in obedience to the will of God , not to the will of man , and if thou canst prove any thing against me worthy of stripes , prove it , and act it upon me , but I have wronged no man , nor am I guilty of the breach of any Law . Then the Mayor said , I have a Law against thee , I will make thee a wandering person , and a rogue ; which I denied . Then the Mayor wrote a paper to send me to prison , and then read it unto me , which was full of lies ; which I denied . Then he wrote another , which I denied like wise : Then I said unto him , make not lies thy Law , but write that which is true ; and then he threw by that , and wrote another . Then I was moved of the Lord to say these words unto him , Thou that makes lawes in thy own will , contrary to the Law of God , the plagues of God is thy portion . Then the Mayor answered , now I have a Law against thee , thou curses me , and said to them that stood by , if any of you will but take your oath that he hath cursed , we have a Law to punish him ; but none took their oath . Then I answered and said , look in the Law what cursing is , if thou canst prove it to be a curse by the Law , is the Scripture language a curse ? Then he bid me hold my tongue , for he could not endure to hear me , and said , that I should either pay 3 s. 4 d or sit three houres in the stocks : I answered , first prove the Law broken ; but he being in a rage , sent me to the stocks for three houres , and then sent me to the dungeon : And upon the next day , being the third day of the week , one friend coming out of the North , who came to see me , and had travelled 300 miles before he came to me , lying but one night in the Town at that time , as he was coming in the morning to the prison to see me , one Constable took him in the street , and had him before the Mayor , he giving no offence at all , the Mayor fell a beating of him , calling him a wandering rogue , and presently made a Mittimus and sent him to the dungeon , commanding that none should come at him , though no offence was proved against him , and there continued till the seventh day of the week ; then being set free by a Warrant , according to law , we came into the Town , and upon the first day of the week , being met together to wait upon the Lord , the Mayor sent two Constables with a Warrant to bring us two before him , that we might be sent out of the Town , as was expressed in the Warrant ; the Constables having served the Warrant , Justice Blackley coming in at the same time , did show them an Act which they had broken , and so had broken the Law ; and the Constables then went away , and did prosecute the Warrant no further at that time : the next day in the morning one Constable and the Jayler came to the house where I lay , and commanded me to goe with them to the Mayor ; and when I came before him , having nothing against me , asked me , if I would goe out of the Town ? I answered , when the Lord calls me out I shall go , for I stand in the will of God , not in the will of man . The Mayor said , thou dost not follow the examples of the Apostles , for when they were persecuted in one City they fled into another , but we cannot get thee out by no meanes ; and so owned himself to be of the same generation that persecuted the Apostles . I answer , I have done no wrong , no guile , nor violence to any man , nor broken any Law , if thou hast any Law against me , read the Law unto me , and if I have wronged any man , I shall make restitution four fold , according to the Law of God , but proving none . The Mayor said , this is the Law , thou shalt chuse three things : First , whether thou wilt quietly depart out of the Town : Or secondly , go to prison , and be kept close , that none shall come at thee , nor have any thing but what thou earnes to lie upon : Or thirdly , to be whipped and sent out of the Town . And here let all people consider how contrary he acts to the Law of the Nation , for if by the Law he could prove me to be a rogue , or guilty of any other breach of the Law , then here he breaks the Law himself , in giving me liberty to goe away without any punishment according to the offence : and again , here he hath broken the Law , & acts contrary to it , in imprisoning me , & putting me in the dungeon , having no Law against me , but because I will not goe away out of the Town when he doth command me to goe ; and here all people may see , that he who pretends to be a Minister of the Law , hath imprisoned me contrary to the Law . And again , there is no Law in the Nation that offereth these three conditions unto rogues ; as either to depart quietly out of the Town , or be imprisoned , or whipped ; let all who know the Law judge : And so contrary to the Law of God , and the Law of the Nation , doe I , and others of the Servants of the Lord , suffer , under a law made in the will of man ; as one Ann Blacklain hath been kept in prison above three months for declaring against the deceipts of a Priest publickly in the Steeple-house : And James Parnell hath been kept in prison almost three months , and is now put into the dungeon , for setting up of a paper publickly in the market place , that thereby both Priest and people might see the truth cleared , and their deceipts discovered , that so coming to own the truth of God , they might keep the peace , which all the world hath broken by disobedience to the light of Christ , in the conscience , and so for declaring the truth , and publishing it forth in writing publickly , is imprisoned , and no breach of the Law proved against him ; and so they both remain in prison under this pretence , of bringing in sureties for good behaviour , when as they are not guilty , nor no mis-behaviour proved against them , but all who suffer as Christians , in the obedience to the will of God , need not be ashamed . And under the same tyranny and law , made in the will of man , doe I now suffer , onely because that at the command of Will . Pickering Mayor of Cambridge I did not goe out of the Town to fulfill his will , and so have disobeyed the command of the Lord , did he send me to the dungeon , and commanded the Jaylor that none should be suffered to come to me , nor bring any thing unto me , nor that I should have any thing but what I earned : and since I was first cast into this hole , there is severall reproaches , and 〈◊〉 , and false accusations cast upon me and the rest of my brethren ; and I am not suffered to have my accusors face to face , that the law may take hold upon the guilty , and that the truth might be cleared , and my accusors known , for since I was first put into this place , there are three several papers of lies and slanders published forth by Will . Pickering Mayor , under his own hand , the first dated August 23. the second Aug. 28. the third Aug. 29. 1. Accusation . That we are idle wandering persons , and rogues , living upon poor silly people , which some of them are now kept by the parish themselves . I answer , this Accusation is false , for from the Lord are we sent , to declare against all deceipt and unrighteousnesse of men , and against all those who lay heavie burthens upon the poor by deceipt and oppression , and against all who live in pride , and idlenesse and fulnesse of bread , by whom the creation is devoured , and many made poor by your meanes , and you who are rich , who live at ease , and in pleasure , you live upon the labours of the poor , and lay heavie burthens upon them , grievous to be born , and you may the poor complain of , but they who doe receive our testimony there is the heavie burthens taken off , and the poor is cased , and whosoever do receive the truth in the love of it , which we freely declare from the Lord , and hath this worlds good , he cannot see the poor in need , nor want , nor beg their bread , but the truth where it is received opens the bowels of compassion , and takes off oppression and the heavie burthen which the poor groans under , but we are not chargeable , nor our Gospel , not to the rich , nor to the poor , neither doth any who have received us complain , nor is chargeable to the parish , is neither kept nor maintained by it . Therefore in the presence of the living God I doe charge thee to cease from falsly accusing the innocent , who can neither prove us to be rogues nor deceivers , as the fruit of our ministery shall bear witnesse in them who have received it , who can witnesse , that they are led out of much deceipt and ungodlinesse which before they lived in , and we have not been burthensome nor chargeable unto them through idlenesse , God is our witnesse , we have coveted no mans gold , nor silver , nor meat , nor drink , nor apparell ; and here we are falsly accused for the Name of Christ , and for the Gospel sake , which we freely doe declare as we have freely received it . 2. Accusation . The Mayor saith , that the Law makes idle wandering persons to be rogues , those that will not work if they have not any thing of their own to live upon , those that use deceipt full wayes to get maintenance by , these by the Laws of the Land are all rogues , and such are these in my judgement , and in my soul and conscience I am troubled that I have done no more to them then I have done , to rid the Town of them . I answer , here thou hast shewed thy judgement , and made it manifest , that this persecuting will is thy law , and hast acted contrary , which thou hast here declared to be the Law of the Land concerning rogues , who doth keep us here in prison , in the dungeon , under the pretence of rogues , and hath not proved any of these things against us , which thou sayest makes rogues , not to be idle wandering persons , nor hast not proved us to have nothing of our own to live upon , nor hast not proved that we have used any deceiptful wayes to get maintenance by , and here by the Lawes of the Land we are cleared , who are not guilty of any of those things , ●…d so the Lawes of the Land will take hold upon thee and all our accusers , who hath imprisoned us for rogues , when there is no witnesse against us to prove the breach of any Law of the Land , for by the Law of justice and equity we desire to be judged . And thou who sayest , in thy soul and conscience thou art troubled that thou hast done no more to us then thou hast done , that in thy conscience shall witnesse against thee for what thou hast already done , and will let thee see , that thou hast acted contrary to that in the conscience , the light of Christ , and that in thy conscience will condemn thee , and hast acted contrary to the Law of the Land , as by that in thy conscience thou shalt be judged , which will let thee see , that thou art not a doer of the Law of God , nor a Minister of the Law of the Nation , but a maker of lawes according to thy judgements , and acting them upon the righteous , whom the Law was not made for , that thou mayest rid the Town of those who come to witnesse the Law of God to be fulfilled in them , and to establish righteousnesse in the earth , and to bring people from under the transgression of all Lawes , to witnesse one Law giver , Jesus Christ who is our Law giver . 3 Accusation . The Mayor saith , that one of us told him when he desired him to goe out of the Town , that he would not , for he was sent to destroy the Town . I answer , this Accusation is false , for there was not such a word spoken , neither can any such thing be proved , for we came not to destroy men lives , but to saye them , and to preach Jesus Christ the Saviour of the world , and doe speak from the Lord to that in the conscience of every one , the light of Christ , which will let every one in particular see , that his destruction is of himself , and by the light of Christ , unto which we are made manifest in every mans conscience , are we cleared from all such slanders and reproaches , which are falsly cast upon us for the Name of Christ , who was reproached as we are , and his reproaches we bear daily , and are not ashamed of , as the Scripture saith , which by us is witnessed daily ; and the Laws of the Land , being executed in justice and equity , will take hold upon our accusers , and clear us . 4. Accusation . That we have left our honest Callings , one being a Husbandmanservant , and another a Shooemaker , and now living upon the labours of other men . I answer , we are in our Callings whereunto the Lord hath called us , and doe abide in our Calling , and he that doth abide in his Calling abides with God , and this I witnesse , who am called from father and mother , lands and livings , and from the cutward imployment which I lived honestly in , but was never servant to any man in that Calling , that accusation is false ; and my call is to the work of the Lord , to labour in his vineyard , who once had a vineyard without to labour in , as you have , who live in your earthly possessions and habitations , and that calling was lawfull in its place , and I did abide in it till the Word of the Lord came and called me from it into his work , who now cares for me , and provides for me , without taking thought or care what to eat , or what to drink , or wherewith to be clothed , for after all these things doe the heathens seek , who knowes not God , and my call is from God immediately , not from man , and in the Scripture I have a cloud of witnesses : who were all called by God , and left their callings : Elisha was called from the plough as he was following the plough , 1 Kings 9. 10. and David was called from keeping the sheep , who was a Shepherd , 1 Sam. 16. 11 , 12. and by the Word of the Lord was Jeremiah called to be a Prophet , who said , he was a child , and could not speak , but the Lord said , that he would put his Word in his mouth , and that he should goe whithersoever the Lord commanded him , and that he should not fear the faces of men , for he would deliver him , and that he should speak whatsoever he commanded him , Jer. 1. 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10. And by the same Word was Amos called , as he was following the flock , who was a herdsmand , and a gatherer of Sicamore fruit , Amos 7. 14 , 15 , 16 And the Apostles were fisher-men , and trades-men , and Paul a Tentmaker , & ●hose all left their honest callings to do whatsoever the Lord commanded them , some to prophesie , and some to preach the Gospel , and the same Word of God , and the same Call , and the same Spiri● I doe witnesse , by which I am called from my outward calling ; and by the same Law , by which I am accused for leaving my honest calling , and commanded to it again , by the same would Elisha be accused , and commanded to goe to the plough again ; and Amos for leaving the flock and vineyard , to goe to prophesie in the Kings Chappel at Bethell ; but Amasiah the Priest was offended at Amos , for leaving his calling , and for prophesying at Bethell , and commanded him to goe away , that he should neither prophesie , nor eat bread there , though he was commanded of the Lord : And the same Spirit doth appear in you , both Priests and Magistrates , in Cambridge , with them who are sent of the Lord , and commanded as Amos was : And you say this is the Unversity , and you have Teachers enough of your own , but none of them can witnesse , that the Lord ever called them , or commanded them : but they who are called and commanded by the Lord , and in obedience to him do come , them you command to goe cut of the Town to follow their callings again , and so by the same Law command the Prophets to their callings again , and the Apostles to their netts again , and Paul to make Tents again , and Mathew to the receipt of Customes again , which they were all called from ; but Amos did not goe to Bethell to be a herdsman , but to declare the Word of the Lord ; nor the Apostles did not goe to fish , and to their netts again to get their living , but they were made fishers of men : And were persecuted from City to City , and threatned , and straitly charged to speak no more in that Name , and to depart their Coasts , as I am commanded to depart from Cambridge to teach in my own Country ; but they obeyed God rather than man , and were not idle wandering rogues , though they had left their lawfull callings , and had no certain dwelling place , but did goe whithersoever the Lord commanded them , to preach the Gospel to every creature , and to all nations , and took no thought what to eat , or what to drink , nor wherewith to be cloathed , and did eat no mans bread for nought ; and the same I witnesse ; and the Prophets , nor the Apostles , when they were put into prisons and dungeons , you doe not read , that they were forced to work to fulfill the will of their persecutors , nor that ever Paul , nor the rest of the Apostles , nor Servants of Jesus Christ , when they were cast into prison , or dungeons , that for the testimony of Jesus , that ever they were charged or commanded to beat hemp , or else not eat , as the Task-master of Cambridge doth command , but their labour and work was to beget into the truth , and some were begotten in their bonds , as Paul witnessed in the Epistle to Philemon , 10. vers. and the Apostle Paul suffered trouble , as an evill doer , even unto bonds , but the Word of God was not bound , 2 Tim. 2. 9. This is a faithful saying , If we suffer with him we shall also raign with him , if we deny him , he also will deny us : And for his sake , who hath called me , doe I suffer all things , and endure all things , and am not ashamed of his sufferings , but in obedience to the will of God , doe I deny the will of man , and suffer by the will of man , God is my witnesse , and my conscience also bearing me witnesse in the presence of God . And this of the Lord I was moved to publish forth , that the truth may be cleared from scandals , and the persecution and tyranny of unreasonable men made manifest to all sorts of people , who come to see , and to read with understanding ▪ and here have cleared my conscience , being free from the guilt of the bloud of all men , and have laid thesin to the charge , and to the door of those who are guilty . From a Servant and a Prisoner of Jesus Christ in Cambridge , RICHARD HUBBERTHORNE . A Coppy of a Mittimus made in the will of the Mayor of Cambridge . To the Keepers of the Touleboth in Cambridge . VVHereas James Parnell hath been brought before me , and hath been examined , and hath confessed , that he was sent to this Town to set dissention in this Town , in many particulars , as by his examination may fully appear , and further , hath confessed that he set up a paper in the Market , the last market day , in this Town , which is a Libell against the Ministers and Magistrates of the said Town , and further misdemeanours is proved against him : these are therefore in the name of the Lord Protector of England , that you receive him into your custody , and him safely keep , that he may be forth coming to answer the premises the next Sessions : fail not at your perill . Given under my hand , 3d July , 1654. Will. Pickering Mayor . A Reply to the foresaid Mittimus . AS for my coming before thee , it was by thy Authority , for I was in a friends house , called Justice Blackley , and there was a man , called a Constable , in a shop over against the house , waiting for my coming forth , and as I was going over the way , with some writings in my hand which concerned the truth of God , the Constable , so called , came and met me , and told me I must goe with him , and I said , if he had authority I should goe with him , and he said he had ; and so in obedience to the Authority I went along , and he brought me before thee , and thou came violently and took off my hat , and cast it upon the earth , calling me rogue , and other such like termes , which was in thy will , and not in thy law , and therefore thou art not fit to be a Magistrate , for he that is guided by his own will is not fit to be a Magistrate , for he makes his will a law , and the law is not to be made by the will of man ; and then thou came and caused my pockets to be searched , and thou took my writings from me , and said , there might be some treason in them , and I said , if there was any thing under the Law , let me suffer by the Law ; and thou came violently once or twice as if thou wouldest have smote me , calling me rogue , and witch , and the like ; and I said , if thou couldest prove me either a rogue , or a witch , let me suffer as a rogue or a witch ; but whether this be in thy law or no , I know not , so I shall leave it to those who knowes the Law to judge of it ; but I am sure it is contrary to the Law of God , and so to that thou art a transgressour , and by him thou must be judged : And then thou asked me , why I came to the Town to make division : And I said , Christ came for the same , to set at variance father against son , and son against father , as the Scripture makes it appear , Mat. 10. 35. and I witnessethe same fulfilled , and this thou sets as an article against me . Now let any one consider , if thou wouldest not imprisoned Christ if he was personally here , but in as much as thou doest it to one of his , thou doest it to him , Mat. 25 , 45. and here thou hast manifested thy self to be a Tyrant , who imprisons the Servants of Jesus Christ for confessing him , who begins the warre wheresoever he comes , his first appearance is with the sword to that which is for the sword , and bring peace and deliverance to the captives , and to lead captivity captive , Luke 4. 8. and this we witnesse fulfilled , and for this end are we come to the Town of Cambridge , which is one of the devils strongest holds , from whence he sends forth his messengers into the world to deceive the Nations , but the Lord is come to beat up his quarters , and now the warre is begun , and the devil hath cast some of us into prison , but still the warre goeth on , and the Lamb will get the victory , and the Beast , and the false Prophet , and all that have the mark of the Beast , must be cast into the lake that burneth , &c. Rev. 20. 10 , to the end . Rev. 19. 20. And then thou examined me if I owned a paper , which thou shewed me , and I said I did , and thou set that down as an article against me , for putting up a paper , which thou sayest is against the Ministers and Magistrates of Cambridge , and here thou accuseth the Ministers and Magistrates of Cambridge , to be corrupt and heathenish , for the paper onely declared against corrupt Magistrates , and heathenish Priests , wheresoever they are , and so if there be any Law transgressed here , it is thou that hast transgressed it ; and so for these things thou sent me to prison , and thou sayest , for other misdemeanours , and not one of the Town of Cambridge can tax me for any misdemeanour , for I am redeemed out of the generation of misdemeanours , and was bound to good behaviour , by a stronger bond than man can make , before I came at the Town of Cambridge ; but let any who hath understanding judge , whether thy behaviour or mine was the more like misdemeanour ; but for this cause thou sent me to prison , but I know not by what Law , but thou sayest in the name of the Lord Protector of England , but I believe him , whom thou callest Lord Protector , would deny to own it , for if he should own it , he would own tyranny and oppression , and would shew himself to be an oppressour of the truth of God , and a Protector of tyranny and oppression , and the Lord Protector of heaven and earth would cut him off , and if he wink at such Tyrants as thou art , the Lord will smite him with his sword , and will cut him off from off the face of the earth , and set another in his room , as he hath had examples before him : And thou bragged to me of a tyranny done by thee , and said , thou caused two of my sisters to be whipped the third day , 1653. but I tell thee , the Lord God of all power will whip thee with a rod of vengeance , and him too , whom thou callest Lord Protector of England , who hath the power of England in his hand , if he uphold or suffer such tyranny , or any punishment to be acted against or upon any tender consciences , contrary to the Law of God ; and so I leave him without excuse in the presence of the Lord , and judgement at thy door , who callest thy self WILL . PICKERING . A Reply to some Speeches objected against Ann Blacklane , called Quaker , in Touleboth , by one Phillip Johnson , calling himself a Minister of the World , and calls these sayings dangers , and damnable doctrines , errors and heresies . Object . 1. THat she said , the Scriptures written by the Prophets and Apostles are not the Word of God , but Christ , and that the Scriptures are not sufficient light and meanes to find Christ , and for us to rely upon , contrary to these places of Scripture , Mat. 1 24. 2 Pet , 1. 17. Thou enemy of all righteousnesse , how darest thou call thy self a Minister of the Word , and art ignorant of the letter which witnesseth with the Word , and saith , the Word became flesh , which is Christ , and in the beginning was the Word , and the Word was God , John 1. 1 , 14. and this the Prophets and Apostles witnessed ; and thou , who sets thy self to witnesse the contrary , art no Minister of the Word , nor of the letter , which witnesseth with the Word ; but art shut out from both , and art for condemnation , by the Word : And thou that callest this damnable doctrine , callest the doctrine of the Apostles damnable , who preached Christ the Word ; and here I openly declare against thee to be a blasphemer of the Truth of God , and the Scripture , which thou talkes of relying upon , will witnesse against thee to thy condemnation , and all that takes thy part : and he who hath all the Scripture in notion , and wants the life , is without , feeding upon the husk , with thee , who puts the shaddow for the substance , who hath the form , but denies the power ; but the Scripture is serviceable in its place , and is a true witnesse for the truth of God against such liers and blasphemers as thou art , who takes the letter to talke of , and would destroy the Life ; and so these Scriptures which thou hast set down , may stand and witnesse against thee , who art a sayer but not a doer . Object . 2. That she said , she hath attained to the Light of Christ , without the help of Scripture , by an immediate call from God , and thou sayest , contrary to these Scriptures , Rom. 10. 14. Iohn 5. 39. Reply . Those Scriptures which thou bringest to witnesse against the Light , which was spoken from the Light , shall stand and witnesse with the Light , against thee , who art an enemy to the Light , and who witnesse the Light of Christ doth witnesse it by Christ , without the help of Scripture , and the Scripture doth witnesse the same , that Christ is the Light of the world , and doth enlighten every one that cometh into the world , John 1. 9. without the help of Scripture ; but thou that hates the Light art for condemnation by the Light , which is the life of the Scripture , but the Scripture is serviceable in its place , but thou who lives in darknesse takes it out of its place , and so wrests to thy own destruction . Object . 3. That she said she is without sin , and that she cannot sin , nor break the Commandments , but keep them all , and all other are in condemnation , that are not like her . Reply . Here thou art a false accuser , and a lier , for this she did not say , but thou that pleadest for sin livest in sin , and art in the fall under the curse , upholding the devils kingdome , which is sin , and so art no Minister of Christ , who comes to destroy sin , but a Minister of the devil , who comes to uphold sin , and he , who was a Minister of Christ witnessed , that he that is born of God sinnes not , neither can be sin , because his seed remaineth in him , 1 John 3. 9 and all the Ministers of Christ witnesse the same ; and thou , who art a Minister of the devill , pleads against the Ministers of Christ , because thou art a drunkard , and live in sin , and so must have the wages of sin , which is destruction , and all who lives in this generation , pleading for sin , for he that cannot witnesse cleansing here , shall never be cleansed , for as the tree falls so it lies ; and thou that calls this damnable doctrine , art in the damnable estate of the devill , blaspheming the truth of God , and denies Christ come in the flesh , and so art Antichrist , and who have the image of God are like one another , and who are not like , they have the image of the devill , and so are in the state of condemnation . Object 4. That men ought not to acknowledge Superiors , nor to give reverence . Reply . Before the fall there was no Superiors , onely man Lord over all Creatures , Gen. 7 , 28. but not man to be Lord over man : and amongst those who were redeemed there was no Superiors , onely Christ the head , and the rest fellow Servants , and here who would be the greatest should be the least , and he that respects persons commits sin , Jam. 2. 9. and here thou and thy Superiors are in the fall , lording over one another by your corrupt wills , and as for reverence , I say , reverence to whom reverence belongs , he that can receive it let him . Object . 5. That she said she is perfect in this life . Reply That is false , but thou that pleadest against perfection in this life , wast never in this life which is perfect , nor art no Minister of Christ , but of the devill , who pleads for imperfection ; whereas Christ said , Be ye perfect , even as your heavenly Father is perfect , Luke 5. 48. and the Minister of Christ witnessed and said , as he is so are we in this present evill world , and he that hath this hope purifieth himself , even as he is pure , 1 John 2. 3. and here thou art found in the kingdom of the devill , which stands in imperfection , and all who witnesse with thee ; for the Kingdome of God is pure , and nothing that is impure can come therein . Object . 6. That she knoweth and can judge of mens hearts , and that Christ in her judgeth others , and all others , that are not such as she , are carnall , heathens , vagabonds , children of the devil , enemies of God , and murderers , and in the gall of bitternesse . Reply Here with thy serpentine wisdom thou hast mingled truth and falshood together , that all might goe current for truth , but the day hath made thee manifest , and thy heart is known to be Judas heart , who professeth Christ in words , and in thy heart murders him ; and thou art discerned and judged by the Spirit of the Lord in Ann Blacklane , I being of one Spirit with her witnesse it , and this thou shalt witnesse to thy woe and misery , and here thou hast razed thy self out from being a Minister of Christ who art a naturall carnall man , and knowes not the Spirit of God , which searcheth the heart and trieth the reines , Heb. 4. 12 , which the Ministers of Jesus Christ witnessed , and said , the spirituall man discerneth and judgeth all things , 1 Cor. 2. 15. and witnessed and said , it is no more I but Christ in me , and without are dogs , whoremongers , adulterers , carnall , h●athens , vagabonds , children of the devill , enemies of God , and in the gall of bitternesse , and drunkards , and here art thou , and all that joynes with thee to persecute the truth of God , and must be cast into the lake that burneth , for the new Covenant is but one , and the way is but one , and the truth is but one , and they that are not with us are against us , and here art thou in the damnable estate of the devil , who calls this damnable doctrine . Object . 7. That she and such as she are onely enlightened , and sent of God to reprove the world of sin . Reply If thou wast a Minister of Christ thou wouldest witnesse the same , for all who are sent from him are sent from one , and are guided by one , as they abide in one , and are all of one heart and one mind , Act. 4. 32. Epistles written in one anothers hearts ; and thou that callest this damnable doctrine art of one mind with the devill . Object . 8. That she said there is no outward Christ according to his manhood , but that Christ is onely within us . Reply . This is false , and here thou art a lier of thy father the devill , but we witnesse Christ come in the flesh , but this thou canst not witnesse but art in the state of reprobation , who knows not Christ within ; and those who knowes Christ no nearer than the heavens above the skies , hath no profit by him , but is in the state of reprobation , as the Scripture witnesseth , 2 Cor 12. 5 Object . 9. That she said , they that have the Spirit cannot fall into sicknesse , diseases , distempers of the body . Reply Here again thou art taken with a lie in thy mouth , for what she said as concerning this , was concerning her own condition , since she witnessed the Spirit of the Lord . Object . 10. That she doth not seek to lead men to the Scripture but from them , Reply This is false , for they who witnesse the life of the Scripture cannot deny the Scripture , for it is their own ; but thou , and such swinish natures as thou , must be shut out of the Scripture , who takes to talk of , or to make a trade of , and are ignorant of the life , and would destroy the life , who have the form , but deny the power , 2 Tim. 3. 5. such must be shut out of the Scripture , for what should swine doe with pearles , Mat. 7. 6. whose life is in husks , and there thou feeds , and all who have the letter and wants the life . Object . 11. That she said , no man ought to swear before a Magistrate , and that no Magistrate ordained of God will cause men to swear ; and thou brings the old Covenant to maintain swearing , Gen. 24. 3. Reply Hear every way thou Serpent pleads for thy life , which is sin , but Christ the new Covenant , who is the end of the old Covenant , said , that it had been said in the old time , thoushalt not forswear thy self , but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oath , Mat. 5 ▪ 33 , 34. but I say , swear not at all ; yet the devill in thee runs into the old Covenant to maintain swearing , and so would have Scripture to maintain his Kingdome ; but the day hath made him manifest , and those who puts any to swear , are still in the old Covenant , for in the new Covenant no swearer can come . Object . 12. That she said , men ought not to pray , and that I my self ought not to pray . Reply . Even now thou wast pleading for swearing , and now thou art pleading for praying but the prayer of the wicked are abominable , Prov. 15. 8. and thou who art a drunkard art wicked , and hath nothing to pray , but Cains generation , murdering the righteous , whose Sacrifices the Lord will not accept ; but he that can witness Christ risen can pray . Object . 13. That the Scripture doth not trie the Spirit . Reply . The Spirit was before the letter was , and thou hast the letter , but canst not trie the Spirit , but those who have the Spirit of the Lord , have tried thy spirit without the letter , and hath found it to be the Spirit of the devill , who hath ever reviled and persecuted the truth of God , which calleth the doctrine of Christ damnable doctrine . And thou sayest thou wilt justifie , that all these her sayings are false , and will be ready to maintain them by this power . Reply I doe testifie and witnesse by the Spirit of the Lord , that thou art a naturall carnall man , and knowes not the things of God , 1 Cor. 2 : 14. therefore thou Serpent be silent , and talk nor meddle not with the things , least he come with a bigger power then thine , and cut the asunder , and cast thee into the lake that burneth , then shalt thou know what thou hast done , and all who plot and lay their heads together , devising how to shed the innocent bloud , it were better for them they had never been born , Mat. 23 : 35 , for upon that generation shall come all the righteous Abel , even untill now , and this I witnesse by the Spirit of the Lord , who am chosen out of the world , to be a faithfull witnesse for the truth of God against all who doe oppose it . JAMES PARNELL A Prisoner for the testimony of JESUS at Cambridge . 
A44843	----	The record of sufferings for tythes in England the sufferers are, The seed of God, or, The assembly of his first-born, or, The first fruits unto God in England, in this age, who are called to be faithful, and have been found faithful, therefore have we suffered willingly the spoiling of our goods, for to us the truth is more precious then our estates, lives, or outward liberties, and thererfore hath the Lord accounted us first worthy to suffer for his name sake, and to be as lights in this deceitful generation : those which our suffering is a testimony against, is that priesthood which is light and treacherous, which in all ages the Lord raised up faithful witnesses against : ... : and in these dayes we may say, that they are worse then any troop of robbers, or any that preached for hire that ever went before them, as will appear in this book following, by their devouring vvidovvs houses spoiling mens goods, and destroying mens persons / given forth from those whom the Lord regards, who do tremble at his word, for which cause we are in scorn called Quakers ... Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A44843 of text R19160 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing H3230). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 167 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 28 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A44843 Wing H3230 ESTC R19160 12171856 ocm 12171856 55429 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A44843) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 55429) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 603:16) The record of sufferings for tythes in England the sufferers are, The seed of God, or, The assembly of his first-born, or, The first fruits unto God in England, in this age, who are called to be faithful, and have been found faithful, therefore have we suffered willingly the spoiling of our goods, for to us the truth is more precious then our estates, lives, or outward liberties, and thererfore hath the Lord accounted us first worthy to suffer for his name sake, and to be as lights in this deceitful generation : those which our suffering is a testimony against, is that priesthood which is light and treacherous, which in all ages the Lord raised up faithful witnesses against : ... : and in these dayes we may say, that they are worse then any troop of robbers, or any that preached for hire that ever went before them, as will appear in this book following, by their devouring vvidovvs houses spoiling mens goods, and destroying mens persons / given forth from those whom the Lord regards, who do tremble at his word, for which cause we are in scorn called Quakers ... Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. [6], 49 p. Printed for Tho. Simmons ..., London : 1658. "To the reader" signed: Richard Hubberthorne. Reproduction of original in Huntington Library. eng Tithes -- England. A44843 R19160 (Wing H3230). civilwar no The record of sufferings for tythes in England. The sufferers are, the seed of God, or, the assembly of his first-born, or, the first fruits [no entry] 1658 21892 15 0 0 0 0 0 7 B The rate of 7 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the B category of texts with fewer than 10 defects per 10,000 words. 2004-12 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-02 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-04 John Latta Sampled and proofread 2005-04 John Latta Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion THE RECORD OF SUFFERINGS FOR TYTHES IN ENGLAND . The Sufferers are , The Seed of God , or , The assembly of his First-born , or , The First Fruits unto God in England , in this Age , who are called to be faithful , and have been found faithful ; therefore have we suffered willingly the spoiling of our Goods , for to us the Truth is more precious then our Estates , Lives , or outward Liberties , and therefore hath the Lord accounted us first worthy to suffer for his Name sake , and to be as Lights in this deceitful Generation . Those which our sufferings is a testimony against , is that Priesthood which is light and treacherous , which in all Ages the Lord raised up faithful witnesses against ; for Isaiah said , That they were all blind and ignorant , and dumb dogs , and never had enough , Isa. 56. 10 , 11. And Ieremiah said , That the Prophets prophesied falsly , and the Priests did bear rule by their means , Jer. 5. And Ezekiel said , They fed themselves , and not the flock , Ezek. 34. Mica said , They preached for hire , and divined for money , Mic. 2. 11. and Hosea said , That they were as a Troop of Robbers that did wait for a man , so the company of Priests did murther in the way by consent , Hos. 6. 9. And in these dayes we may say , that they are worse then any troop of Robbers , or any that preached for hire , that ever went before them , as wil appear in this Book following , by their devouring VVidows Houses , spoiling mens goods , and destroying mens persons . Given forth from those whom the Lord regards , who do tremble at his word , for which cause we are in scorn called Quakers , whom the Lord hath raised up as his army , before whom the Nations shall tremble , Ioel 2. and bow down their backs always before the truth . London , Printed for Tho. Simmons , at the Bull and Mouth neer Aldersgate , 1658 To the READER GOD hath a great work to do in this generation , to pull down the abominations which hath long reigned , and many are straitned till it be accomplished ; and onely such must be exercised in this work , who are called , chosen , and faithful ; many have been called , but have not been faithful , but have destroyed in their works , that which they seemed to have established by words , and was not faithful to witness the life of their words by their works ; so that by a true search we have found the words of righteousness in many , but we have found the works of righteousness but in few ; and though God hath shined into the hearts of many by his light , yet there are but few children of it , in comparison of the disobedient : The eye of God hath looked into the world , and he sees men differ more in words then in life and conversation ; and some in words do witnesse for God , but in their works deny him : As for example , How many of late yeers had a zeal stirred up in them by the spirit of the Lord against the abominations of the Priests , and the oppression of tythes , preaching both down , even as that which denyed Christ to be come in the flesh : So that if words had ben that which would have finished the work , the Land had been clensed before this time of that abomination ; but the Lord hath brought a tryal upon such spirits , whether they will own their testimony through the spoiling of their Goods , and imprisonment of their bodies and therefore hath God suffered an earthly power , and a Law to try them , and now they do rather deny their Testimony , then suffer by that Law which gives the Priests tythes ; as for Witnesses , most of the baptized people in England have betrayed their testimony and profession in that thing : And how are you worthy to be called Saints which bear such a testimony ? can this equally be compared with the testimony of the Saints of old ? Did they cry down false worships and false teachers in words ? and did they uphold them by giving them wages ? Have you not herein sinned against light ? Did you not once see that they were never sent of God ? And will you now uphold them because you cannot suffer for your testimony ? Is not your paying them wages , and giving them tythes , a greater witness for them then your preaching them down in words is against them , and may they not herein rejoice over you ? Christ is not herein your example , which for this end was born , and for this end came into the world , to bear witness to the truth , and did finish the work which the Father had given him to do , and was made perfect through sufferings ; but such never need suffer who preach down deceit in words , and hold it up in works . And the Apostles is not your example , for they were in works that which they declared in words : therefore hath God cast you by , as not fit to be Labourers in his Vineyard : But a people is the Lord raising up , whom he is giving his holy spirit unto , whose witness to him must stand as well in works , as in words , who love the truth more then their lives or liberties , goods or estates , and are valiant for it upon the earth , which cannot be subject to the powers of darkness , nor the Rulers of the darkness of this world , but believeth that whatsoever they deny for Christ in this life , they shall receive a hundred sold , & in the world to come life everlasting . And these are they whom the Father will exercise with his holy spirit , in the gathering his seed from the ends of the earth , and for the turning of many to righteousness ; and such shall shine as the stars in the firmament of Heaven , when as the false and deceitful witnesses shall be turned into darkness , because their testimony is not able to endure the tryal ; for the Lords House must be built with tryed stones , that the winds of persecutions cannot blow it down : and upon such wil his light arise , who when they are tryed , are found faithful , and who are counted worthy to bear a testimony in this work , though it be through sufferings , in this day , when the powers of the Earth have set themselves to wear out the Saints of the most High God , by changing times and Laws , whereby to restrain the liberty of the Lords people , whose worship stands in the spirit , and in the truth . Times they have changed by a Law , in making the first day of the week to be their Sabbath , but that day is more profaned then any of the seven . And Laws they have changed , to get a ground to stop the word of the Lord from having free course and free utterance among the people . These seek to scatter the power of the holy people , and to cast the truth to the ground by their acts of cruelty , and decrees of unrighteousnesse , and by a tollerating cruelty and oppression among a company of Priests , which are worse then those in Hosea's dayes , who then were , As a Troop of Robbers that wait for a man , even so the company of Priests murther in the way by consent , Hos. 6. 9. and saith the Prophet , I have seen a horrible thing in the House of Israel ; but now may we say , VVe have seen a more horrible thing in the Land of England , even a company of Priests taking mens Horses from their work , their Corn off their field , driving away their Oxen and Kine out of their pasture , taking their wool out of their Barns , taking away their Brasse and Pewter out of their Houses , taking away their Bedding off their Beds , even off the childrens Beds : Such a horrible thing was never seen in Israel , for the Priests Robbery was not so great then , as now ; for they did never so spoile mens goods , nor destroy mens Estates , nor imprison mens bodies , as now in England the priests have done ; so that they do not onely exceed the false prophets of Israel , but also all the Robbers both in Israel and in England , hath not spoiled so much Goods and Cattel as they have done within these five yeers , some without any Law , or pretence of Laws and others by false oaths and false witnesses , and the Law not permitting a man to give in a true witnesse except he will swear , contrary to Christs command , who saith , Swear not at all : which swearing is as great a sin as bearing of a false witness . And by these things do they seek to wear out the Saints of the Most High God , first takeing away a mans Goods , and then casting him into prison ; as Christ said to the Saints , so is it come to pass in these dayes also amongst us , The Devil shall cast some of you into prison , and you shall have tribulation ten dayes : If the Devil now , or his Ministers or Messengers of Satan , be permitted to cast some into prison , or bring tribulation upon others , do they therefore think that we will yeild to the devil , or to his Messengers , that we may be free from tribulation and imprisonment ? Nay , that is not the price of our redemption ; nor way of deliverance ; for that which was written before-time , was written for our learning , which through suffering , and patient continuing in wel doing , we have learned ; without which we could never have learned nor known Christs words fulfilled as they are ; therefore happy is that day wherein the everlasting love of God is broken forth unto us , in bringing us his children , prophets , & holy apostles , to rejoice over the false prophets , and false teachers , though they spoil our Goods , and imprison our bodyes , yet we can rejoice over them , and suffer the spoiling of our Goods with joy , knowing that this is for a testimony against them , by which the reproach which the Lord will bring upon them , will appear to all men . And this is so far from silencing our testimony against them , that it doth daylie renew it ; so that if all that which is past were forgotten , their daylie abominations doth so increase , that a testimony must be continued against them ; for of them the Scripture is true , which saith , Evil men and deceivers wax worse and worse ; for the deceivers in former ages was never so bad , as by force to take away the goods of those that would not heare them , and take away their lives by imprisonment , as some have done , because they could not pay them tythes , as this Record of the unjust sufferings will make manifest . Our Brethren the prophets have given their testimony concerning such prophets and priests which was profane , and that the Lord found folly amongst them , as Ieremiah saith , Ier. 23. he had seen a horrible thing amongst them , they strengthened the hand of evil-doers , that none did return from their inquity ; and it is so now for these reasons . How can a drunkard return from his drunkenness when he sees his priest drunk ? and how can a swearer return from his swearing when he sees his priest swear , and hire men to swear falsly , as many have done in this Nation ? And how can a covetous man return from his covetousness when he sees his priest so covetous that he taketh away mens goods by violence , which he hath no right unto , but onely through covetousness makes merchandize of people ? So how should any return from such things who are taught by them ? and how can a proud man return from his pride , when he sees his teacher lead him into it by example ? How can an envious man turn from his envie , seeing his teacher envious , and provoking others to wrath and envy ? So these Reasons proves that the prophet's words are true , that none can return from their iniquity by following the practise of their Priest ; and Christ's words are fulfilled also , Matth 23. which saith , they lay heavy burthens upon people , grievous to be born , and devoures Widowes Houses , as many in this Nation can witnesse , who have their Goods spoiled and taken from them , as this following Record doth make mention , abounding all the cruelty and wickedness which ever was heard of , or read of ; exceeding all the false prophets in Israel ; although they had a price , and preached for hire , yet they never did use such cruelty for their Hire , as these have done ; and exceeding all the false teachers among the Gentiles , which never was known to sue any at the Law that would not hear them , muchlesse to take from them seven times the value of what they demanded ; but the Lord doth for a time let his children deeply suffer , to fulfil the testimony of truth in this thing , that it may be recorded for ages to come , the faithfulness of their testimony , and the cruelty of their oppressors ; and then will the Lord finish the testimony of their sufferings , and will give them an Inheritance among the Seed which he hath blessed ; and all their persecutors shall be ashamed , for God will bring an everlasting reproach upon them , and a perpetual shame , which shall not be forgotten , Jer. 23. Richard Hubberthorne . THE RECORD OF SUFFERINGS FOR TYTHES IN ENGLAND . Westmorland . William Hebson for Tythe-Corn of the value of two pound eleven shillings , had goods taken from him to the value of eight pounds , six shillings , and eight pence . William Holme for Tythe-Corn of the value of one pound , fourteen shillings , and eight pence , had goods taken from him to the va-lue of four pounds fifteen shillings . Rowland Smith for Tythe-corn of the value of six shillings , had goods taken from him to the value of one pound , six shillings and eight pence . Richard Holme for Tythe-corn of the value of one pound seven shillings , had goods taken from him to the value of three pounds , four shillings . Agnes Teasdell for Tythe-corn of the value of one pound , eleven shillings , had goods taken from her worth five pounds . Edward Robinson for tythe corn of the value of sixteen shillings and nine pence , had goods taken from him worth four pounds six shillings and eight pence . Richard Smith for Tythe-Corn of the value of eight shillings and six pence , had goods taken from him worth one pound . These Goods were taken from them upon Warrants from Robert Branthwait and Francis Sisson Iustices , for the use of Peter Mawson of Peureth . Iohn Sutton for tythe of the value of one pound four shillings , had goods taken from him worth three pounds , ten shillings . John Camme for tythe of the value of one pound , eight shillings and six pence , had goods taken from him worth three pounds . The same for tythes of the value of about one pound nine shillings , had goods taken from him worth four pounds . Margret Camme for tythe worth eight pence , had goods taken worth eight shillings . Cumberland . Richard Robinson of Blencoge , for one pound eight shillings demanded by William Grainger Priest of Brumfield , had two Oxen taken from him worth four pounds ten shillings . Widow Ayket , a poor woman , left in much Debt when her Husband dyed , more then all his Goods would pay , so that the Creditors both gave time , and abated , had taken from her for the said mercilesse priest , ( who no way considered her need ) one Milch-Cow , and one Oxe , she having no more but one other Cow , and one Oxe , for tythe-corn valued but to one pound eight shillings . So here you may see that the Widowes and Fatherlesse that were to be maintanied by tythes , are now robbed of their goods to pay tythes . Iohn Wilkinson for tythe-corn which his neighbors did prise at two shillings six pence , had taken from his children upon a Warrant from Thomas Craister and Cuthbert Studdam , a Mare worth three pounds , for the use of Iohn Forward Priest of Boulton . Thomas Porter for tythe prised at two pounds , had taken from him upon the said Justices VVarrant for the use of the said priest , three Stots worth six pounds . Iohn Pattison for three shillings , had five pecks of Barley and a Sack , taken from him for the said priest , worth eight shillings and nine pence . Tho. Wilson , alias Stumper , for twelve shillings demanded for tythes , had a Horse taken from him for the use of the said priest , worth two pounds . Hugh Tickell for six shillings four pence claimed by Percivel Radcliff priest of Crosthwaite , had goods taken from him by a warrant from Lancelot Fletcher and Iohn Barwes , worth one pound , one shilling and seven pence . Iohn Wilson for seven shillings claimed by the said priest , had taken from him upon the said Justices warrant , goods worth one pound ten shillings . Christopher Scot for nineteen shillings claimed by the said priest , had goods taken from him upon the said Justices warrant , worth two pounds . Anthony Tickell for four shillings demanded by the said priest , had goods taken from him upon the said Justices warrant , worth fourteen shillings . Iohn Ardel of Areleby , was sued by Guwen Eglesfield , priest of Plumland , for tythe , which his servant swore was worth fifteen shillings , and had taken from him by the Sheriffs Bailiff , one Steer worth one pound seven shillings . These had their Goods taken from them because they could not pay towards the repair of the popish Steeplehouses . John Bouckell in Graystock-parish , for two shillings and eight pence , had goods taken worth seven shillings . William Bowman of Lamplough parish , for nine shillings , had goods taken worth sixteen shillings . Elinor Dicson for seven shillings and six pence , had goods taken worth nine shillings . Iohn Hodgson for two shillings , had goods taken worth four shillings and seven pence . Lancelot Fearon for sixteen shillings and three pence , had goods taken worth eighteen shillings . VVidow Ayket for ten pence demanded for tythe , had a pot and a pewter dish taken from her , worth above four shillings . Henry Lowthet for three shillings four pence for tythe , had taken from him one Sack and Barley worth six shillings and eight pence . These had their goods taken away because they could not swear . At John Dalstons Court at Vldel . John Fell was fined , and had goods taken worth eight shillings . Thomas Fell was fined , and had goods taken worth eight shillings and four pence . John Caipe was fined , and had goods taken worth nine shillings and six pence . At the Earle of Northumberlands Court , so called . John Senhouse was fined , and had a horse taken worth one pound ten shillings . Henry Lowthet was fined three shillings and four pence , and bad goods taken worth sixteen shillings . Iohn Richardson was fined at the Sheriffs County-Court , because he could not swear , and had goods taken from him worth eleven shillings . Edmund Hunter of Gisbrough in Yorkshire , because he could not swear as a Jury-man , was fined twenty shillings , for which he had a Cow taken away worth four pounds . BEDFORD . James Taylor of Asply Guyse , about the nineth month , 1656. was arrested upon an Attachment , prosecuted by Thomas Arkesden priest , for not swearing to his answer unto a Bill exhibited into the Exchequer by the same priest , against him for tythes , and thereupon imprisoned in Bedford Goal : VVhere did ever any of the Ministers of Christ do so ? CAMBRIDGE . John Feast , and Edward Wright , of the Isle of Ely , about the third month , 1656. were arrested upon an Attachment prosecuted by William Hunt , priest of Sutton , for not swearing to their Answers which they tendered to the Barons of the Exchequer , unto a bill exhibited into the same Court by the said priest , against them for tythes , and thereupon imprisoned , and Irons put on their legs in Cambridge Gaol . William Grounds of Sutton , in the Isle of Ely , being summoned to appear at a Court held there , upon his appearing was fined forty shillings because he could not sweare , and afterwards had a Mare worth about five pounds , taken and distrained , and disposed of for the said fine , to the use of one Haman Ward . The same William had one Kettle worth ten shillings , taken from him for two shillings and a peny , which he was taxed to pay towards the reparation of the Steeplehouse . Robert Letchworth of Soham , had taken from him two Cowes worth five pounds , for tythes of the value of twenty shillings , pretended to be due to John Gyles , priest there ; and now is in prison at Ely , for tythes by the same priest . Stephen Wilson of the same , had taken from him one Cowe for tythes of the value of twelve shillings , for the same priest . William Crayne of the same , had three stone of Hemp worth eleven shillings and six pence , taken from him for tythes valued at six shillings , for the same priest . Daniel Peachy of the same , had two dozen of Yarn taken from him for tythes , of the value of two shillings , for the same priest . Robert Crabb of Littleport in the Isle of Ely , for tythes , or other pretended dues to Martine Dallamore , priest there , of the value of one shilling and a peny , had taken from him one Kettle worth seven shillings . Clement Crabb of the same , for the like pretended dues to the same priest , valued at seven shillings six pence , had a vessel of Butter taken from him , worth twenty shillings . James Vipen sued to the Exchequer by William Hunt , priest o●Sutton in Ely . Henry Place of the same , for the like pretended dues to the same priest , to the value of one shilling and six pence , had taken from him goods to the value of three shillings . James Peachy of the same , for the like pretended dues to the same priest , to the value of twelve shillings , had one Cow taken from him worth forty shillings . John Love of the same , for the like pretended dues to the same priest , to the value of fifteen shillings , had one Cow taken from him worth forty shillings . Samuel Caser of the same , for the like pretended dues to the same priest , to the value of ten pence , had taken from him one Kettle worth five shillings . Robert Asplan for the like pretended dues to the same priest , to the value of eleven shillings six pence , had taken from him one Cow worth thirty shillings . Thomas Dorman of the same , for the like pretended dues to the same priest , to the value of one shilling eight pence , had taken from him one brass pot worth six shillings eight pence . William Johnson for the like pretended dues to the same priest , to the value of nine shillings ten pence , had taken from him one vessel of butter worth three and twenty shillings , and one Kettle worth ten shillings . The aforenamed Robert Asplan for tythes pretended to be due to the Impropriator , to the value of three pounds fifteen shillings , had taken from him five Cows and three Steers , worth fourteen pounds . The afore-named Robert Crabb for two Rates of one shilling ten pence towards the reparation of the Steeple-house , had taken from him goods to the value of four shillings and ten pence . The afore-named Henry Place for one Rate of five pence towards repairation of the Steeple-house , had goods taken from him to the value of ten pence . Thomas Haukes of the same , for a Rate of four pence towards repairation of the Steeplehouse , had taken from him one platter worth four shillings . The afore-named John Love for two Rates towards repairation of the Steeple-house , and for the parish-Clark , in all amounting to one shilling eight pence , had taken from him one Warming-pan worth six shillings eight pence , and two platters worth four shillings . The afore-named Robert Asplan for one Rate of one shilling four pence towards the repairation of the Steeple-house , had taken from him goods to the value of five shillings . Thomas Jobson , and William Holmes , both of Swasy in the County of Cambridge , were indicted , fined and imprisoned upon pretence of entertaining Ranters , and idle wandering persons , at their Houses , but there was not any such thing proved ; but it was onely for entertaining Friends , called forth from their own Countries , as Abraham was from his ; and as the Apostles were , to forsake all , and follow Christ , and preach his Gospel , the glad tydings of peace and reconciliation . And after about six moneths imprisonment , were set at liberty ; and for their Fines ( being then abated to six pounds , six shillings and eight pence a piece ) tooke away from them four Horses , Beasts worth eighteen pounds . Jeremiah Rose , imprisoned in Ely for tythes by Peter Franklin priest of Marry , after he had taken away more of his goods then the value of the tythe came to . ESSEX . Thomas Mumford at the suit of John Cooper of great Sailing , for tythes , which when he was summoned up to London by Writ , would not suffer him to make his appearance , but committed him to prison contrary to the Writ . Anthony Page , junior , at the suite of the said Cooper for tythes , was in like manner not suffered to make his appearance according to the Writ , but was sent to prison , and there remains in sufferings , and his Wife and three children left to suffering , they having been maintained onely by his labour . Francis Marrige at the suit of John Sorell Impropriator , for tythes , was not suffered to make his appearance according to the Writ , but sent to prison onely because he refused to set an Attorneys Name upon the back of the writ , and so remains in prison . Robert Nicholl of Colne-Engaine , for tythes pretended to be due to John Clerk , priest of the parish , to the value of about nineteen or twenty pounds , for four years tythe , as was pretended , had judgement given him by Dionicius Wakering , and William Harleakenden , Justices , for fifty five pounds , nine shillings and six pence , and upon their warrant had taken from him nine Cows , one Horse , and two Colts , worth near fifty pounds ; and for the rest , when he had taken away all his goods , threatned to send him to prison , and got a warrant for it . John Pollard after he had appeared in the Exchequer , was arrested upon an Attachment at the Suit of Priest Robinson , and now remains a prisoner in Colchester-Castle . Robert Adams of Fearing , for some pretended dues to one Purchase a Priest there ; and for damages , and costs allotted : him by some called Justices , all amounting to sixteen shillings , had taken from him one Horse worth five pounds ten shillings . GLOCESTER . William Atward sued in the Exchequer for tythes , after he had had a bible and several other goods taken from him ; and after one Philip Langley an Impropriator had greatly abused him , calling him our of his House , and threw a great stone at his head , which if he had not kept off , might have slain him . William Wooley because he could not pay tythes , had a Horse taken from him ( worth about five pounds ) by Souldiers . Samuel Bampton sued in the Exchequer by Robert Dowle Impropriator , for about two shillings six pence . John Kathaby had goods taken away by Souldiers to the value of thirty shillings for an Impropriator , for tythe of a small value , and is also sued into the Exchequer . NORFOLK . William Barker of Gissing , for tythes pretended to be due to Robert Proctor , priest there , for which the Priest demanded but twenty six shillings , had taken from him on Horse worth six pounds . Richard Cosen of Baningham , for tythes demanded by one Thomas Knevet , and for costs assessed to him by two Justices , Robert Wood , and Henry King , all amounting to two pounds , seven shillings and six pence , had taken from him a Mare , and a Colt of two yeers old , worth three pounds ten shillings . Benjamin Lynes of Bramplingham ; for tythes pretended to be due by Jonathan Clapham priest there , and costs assessed to him , all amounting to two pounds , three shillings and four pence , had taken from him two Cows worth four pounds . Robert Jacob , late of Wymondham , aged about eighty yeers , about the sixth Month , 1656. being summoned thereunto , to appeare before Rob. Ward , Rob. Wilton , and Thomas VVeeld , called Justices , who informed him he was chosen to be a Constable , & required him to be sworn to execute the same Office ; he acquainted them of his age and inability to execute the said Office , and said he was willing to do what service he could ; but much could not be expected from him in respect of his age , and the inability of his body ; but he could not swear at all , it being contrary to the command of Christ ; whereupon they committed him to prison in Norwich Castle , where he continued [ not able to put off and on his own clothes ] for about eight weeks , and then was released . About the third Month , called May , next before his aforementioned imprisonment ; the same Jacob was summoned to appear before the Barons of the Exchequer at Westminster , being about eighty miles from his outward abode , for not paying tythes ; whereupon he travelled to VVestminster , and upon an Attachment , as for want of an Answer , which would not be accepted without an Oath , and thereupon was sent to the prison aforementioned , where he continued until he dyed , bearing a faithful testimony for the Lord against tythes and swearing . Thomas Berrier of Vpwell , being summoned by a Warrant from the Steward Outwell , had a Horse taken from him for tythes of a small value , worth seven pounds , when he had but one more in his plough , without either appearance or Judgement . Peter Gill had taken from him a pewter platter for Clarkes wages . SVFFOLK . John Smith of Kniten , being summoned to appear before the Barons of the Exchequer at VVestminster for not paying tythes , appeared accordingly , and tendered his Answer to the Barons , who could not accept thereof unless he would be sworn thereunto , which for conscience-sake he could not do , the Son of God having commanded his Disciples not to swear at all ; whereupon he was arrested , and imprisoned at Melton Goal , as for not swearing . Nicholas VVhite of VVestmstie , for tythes pretended to be due to one Austine Gobbel Priest , and costs and damages assessed him in all , to the value of about three pounds , had taken from him three Cows worth about twelve pounds . George Sherwine of K●iten , being twice summoned to appeare in the Exchequer at VVestminster , once at the Suit of one Edmund Moure priest another time at the Suit of one cal'd Lady Gandy for not paying tythes , appeared accordingly , and tendered his Answers there in several Bills unto the Barons , who refused to receive them unlesse he would be sworn thereunto ; and thereupon was presented as for not answering , and afterwards arrested and imprisoned at Melton upon an attachment presented by the said Lady , and remains prisoner . Anthony Kittel of Edwardston , for a Rate of ten shillings towards repairation of the Steeplehouse , had several goods taken from him , to the value of about two pounds , and was also sent to prison . Tho. Iudge for the tythe of one Close of Pasture-ground , was arrested by two Warrants ( at the suit of two Priests of Stainton , John Burrowes , and Gamaliel Capell ) out of the Exhequer , and carryed to the prison , where he remains a close prisoner ; and the tythe is claimed for the yeeres 1647. 1648. the Rent of the Close being yeerly nine pounds . Anthony Kittell was summoned before two Justices , Joseph Brand , and Robert Gardon , for tythes at the Suit of one priest Pretty ; and after they had given judgement against him for his tythes , they sent him to prison for saying the Priest was a lyar , and told him they had now a Law by which they hoped to curb the Quakers . SVSSEX . Robert Adams being sued in the Exchequer for tythes by John Worthing Priest , was cast into prison upon an Attachment , because he could not put in Answer upon Oath , and hath remained in Horsam Goal since the first day of the third Month , 1657. Richard Adams being sued in the Exchequer for tythes by John Fage , he appeared , and tendred his Answer , which they would not accept without Oath ; but he was taken by an Attachment and cast into the Goal at Horsam , where he remains since the twentieth day of the fifth Month , 1657. Minion Brocket because he could not swear to selve the office of a Constable , was put in the Common-Goal at Horsam above a yeer since , where he now remains a prisoner . Margery Coulstock was sent to prison upon the first day of the fift Month , 1657. by one William Freeman Justice , for saying the priests were Hirelings ; and being brought to the Sessions , and there falsly accused by some priests , she reproved them for it , and that was called a Breach of the Peace , and the Bench sent her back to the Goal . KENT . Edward Noake is imprisoned at the Kings Bench in Southwark London , because he cannot pay tythes to the priest . William Beane of Brayburne , near Ashford , had one Hog taken away prised at thirteen shillings four pence , for the repairing of a Steeplehouse and Bells , which they sold for ten shillings , and returned nothing again . Thomas Housigar for ten shillings for repairing the Steeplehouse , they took from him a Cow worth three pounds . VVARWICK . George VVyat lyes there imprisoned because he cannot pay tythes . VVILTS. John Jay of Castlecombe , had taken from him for Roger Flower , Priest of that parish , by order of two Justices , fourteen Sheep , for the tythe of two Loads of Hey , and the Wool and Lamb of seventy sheep . The same John Jay for tythe-corn valued at three pounds four shillings , had taken from him by the said priest , two Oxen worth twelve pounds . Roger Haukins for tythes of the value of ten shillings , had a Mare taken from him for Thomas Pichard , priest of the parish of Ginslington , which was sold for fifty shillings . Roger Smart for tythe of the value of eighteen shillings and odde money , had taken from him for the said priest , two Cows sold for three pounds . VVilliam Player for tythes of the value of nine shillings , had taken from him for the said priest , eight sheep , and six or seven lambs , worth fifty shillings . Another man of the said County , and his Tenant , for tythes of the value of twelve shillings , for VVilliam Stump priest of Yeaton-Cavell , had taken from them eleven sheep worth five shillings a piece , and seventeen shillings from the Tenant ; and the same man lyes now in prison at Fisherton , because he cannot give his Answer to a priests Bill upon Oath . YORKSHIRE . Liverton . Robert Parret for tythes valued at forty shillings , had goods taken from him for Richard Smelt priest of Easington , worth five pounds ten shillings . The same man for refusing to contribute towards the repair of the popish Steeplehouse , had goods taken from him worth sixteen shillings . The same man for not paying five pence , claimed by the parish-Clark for wages , had goods taken from him worth two shillings . The same man for refusing to swear , had goods taken from him worth one pound eight shillings . VVilliam Tiplady for tythes valued at two pounds , two shillings and eight pence , had taken from him for the aforesaid priest S●ets , Goods worth four pounds ten shillings . The same man for refusing to repair the popish Steeplehouse , had goods taken from him worth twelve shillings . More for not paying five pence to the parish-Clark , had taken from him Goods worth two shillings and four pence . The same man for tythe of the value of two pounds , six shillings and eight pence , had Goods taken from him for the said priest Smelt , worth eight pounds . Robert Tiplady for tythes of the value of four pounds , had taken from him for the said priest Smelt , goods worth fifteen pounds , thirteen shillings and eight pence . More for the popish Steeplehouse , goods worth thirteen shillings four pence . More for ten pence Clarks wages , goods worth twelve shillings ten pence . Nicholas Tiplady for tythes valued at one pound ten shillings , had goods taken from him for the said priest Smelt , worth two pounds , thirteen shillings four pence . More for the popish Steeplehouse , goods worth twelve shillings . Robert Stonehouse for tythes valued at three pounds , had goods taken from him for the said priest Smelt , worth fourteen pounds , four shillings and six pence . More for the Steeplehouse , goods worth five shillings . More for not paying five pence Clarks wages , goods worth two shillings and six pence . More for refusing to swear , goods worth ten shillings . James Stonehouse for not paying five pence to the Clark , had goods taken worth three shillings . Rowland Thorp for refusing to repair the popish Steeplehouse , had goods taken from him worth five shillings More for refusing to sweat , goods worth five shillings . Elizabeth Carcrost for not paying two pence for Clarks Wages , had goods taken worth eight pence . More for the popish Steeplehouse , goods worth one shilling . This was done by Warrants from Leonard Smelt , Benjamin Norcliffe , George Marwood , and Matt. Beckwith , orsome of them . E. ASTRIDING . Thomas Leemeing of Wighton , was sued in the Weapontack-court by Robert Musgrave , for tythes of the value of nine shillings , and had taken from him a Cow worth one pound , thirteen shillings four pence . Thomas Leemeing for two pounds two shillings demanded for tithes , was sued by Farmers of the tythe-Corn , and had taken from him by Execution out of the said Court , two Mares worth seven pounds . Thomas Leemeing for tythes of the value of fourteen shillings , demanded by VVill . Kidder priest of VVighton , by Execution out of the said Court , had a Horse taken worth three pounds . Marmaduke Stephenson for two shillings which the said priest Kidder demanded for tythes , had taken from him by the bailiff of the said Court , a brasse pot , and other vessels , worth one pound . Jo. VVilson for six shillings ten pence pretended to be due by Iohn Peables , priest of Barmeby , for Easter-Reckonings , procured a Warrant from Rich. Robinson and Rich. Darley , Justices , for eleven shillings ten pence , and sent two Bailiffs , that took a Cow worth one pound ten shillings . John VVilson for two pounds four shillings and eleven pence , pretended to be due for tythes to Jo. Silburne Impropriator , procured a Warrant from the said two Justices for two pounds , nineteen shillings and eleven pence , and took two Oxen and one Cow , worth about six pounds ten shillings . The said Jo. VVilson was fined six shillings eight pence at the Sheriffs Turn , by Jo. Hewley a Lawyer , because he could not swear ; and the bailiffs took from him for it two Kettles . Walter Hall for two pounds eleven shillings claimed by Jo. Peables priest , and Jo. Silburne Impropriator , for tythes and Easter-Reckonings , by Warrant from the said two Justices , three Cows , one Mare , and two Colts ; of which goods they said they spared one Cow , but never brought her again . Io. Cook for fifteen shillings claimed by Ioseph Picket Impropriator for tythes , had taken from him upon a Warrant from the said two Iustices , two Oxen worth about four pounds ten shillings . Christopher Hurdsman for one shilling three pence claimed by priest Cooper of Fridaythorp , had taken from him a Cow worth two pounds . Christopher Hutton for one shilling eight pence claimed for repairing the Steeplehouse , had two pewter Dishes taken from him worth four shillings . Iames Turner for five shillings ten pence demanded for repairing the Steeplehouse , had a Kettle and two pewter dishes taken from him , worth two pounds fifteen shillings , by Order from the said two Iustices . Christopher Wilson for three shillings four pence demanded for repairing the Steeplehouse , had a Kettle taken from him worth about ten shillings by the said Order . Henry Wilson for ten pence demanded by the Clark , had a brasse Pot taken from him worth four shillings six pence . Io. Smith for two pounds two shillings demanded for tythes by the Impropriator , had two Cows and a Sweath-Rake worth three pounds , thirteen shillings four pence . Also for four pence demadned of him for repairing the Steeple-house , had taken from him three Dublers worth four shillings . Also for ten pence demanded for Clarks wages , they took away from him a brasse pot worth seventeen shillings . Alexander Harland for three shillings demanded by Priest Stather , had a Mare taken away worth two pounds ten shillings . And four bushels of Barley more , worth twelve shillings , for repairing the Steeplehouse . Richard Bayly of Wilton for Tythe-wool and Lamb , pretended due to Richard Darley for about thirty sheep , had taken from him by warrant from the said Richard Darley and Richard Robinson , six sheepe , which they sold . Christopher Walkinton for six pence demanded for repairing of the Steeplehouse , had goods taken from him worth one shilling and six pence . William Losthouse of Hampton for twelve shillings demanded by Iohn Dawson , had taken from him upon a Warrant from George Smithson , and Io. Waistell , goods prised to five pounds . The same William Losthouse for eighteen shillings seven pence , demanded by Robert Wivall , Impropriator of the parish of Downholm , was sued in the Court at Midlam , and there judgement was given against him , though they had no Authority to hold plea of any such matter ; and they took a Horse from him worth three pounds , and since they have taken from him two Dublers for a Tythe-Calse . YORKSHIRE . George Robinson because he could not pay tythe to the priest , was turned out of his House and Land , of which he and his Ancestors had been possessed above one hundred years , by Charls Cornwallis Landlord . The said George Robinson for riding to a Meeting four miles off upon a first day , had a Mare taken from him worth six pounds , and nothing restored back . William Iackson for tythes of ten shillings value , had sixteen shillings taken by a judgment in the Weapontage-Court for a scandalous Priest . Millison Legg , a poor Widow , having five or or six children , was sued in the said Weapontage-Court by William Baxter a scandalous Priest , fortythes valued to five shillings , for which the bailiff took eight shillings besides charges of Court : As soon as the Priest had got it , he went to an Ale-house , and made himself drunk , staying there above twenty four hours . Eliz. Whitehead for not paying eighteen pence towards repair of a Steeplehouse , had a new covering taken from her which cost eight shillings six pence ; a pewter platter worth three shillings ; and a Candlestick worth two shillings six pence ; here is for one shilling six pence , taken away fourteen shillings . Tho. Tanfeild for not paying one shilling towards repairing of a Steeplehouse , had taken from him one Ewe and a Lamb worth seven shillings . Iohn Nickolson for eight shillings demanded for tythes , was sued by Francis Cobb , and ran to an Outlawry , and had three cowes taken from him worth nine pounds . Richard Hancock for two pounds five shillings demanded for tythes , was run to an Outlawry by the said Fran. Cobb , and had taken from him two Oxen and two Horses worth fourteen pounds . Iohn Bird for one shilling demanded by a priests clark , was sued by the clark , and had a Horse taken from him worth three pounds . Marmaduke Storr for three shillings nine pence demanded for repair of a Steeplehouse , had taken from him two Bacon-flitches worth thirty shillings , and a Weather sheep worth ten shillings . Michael Simpson of Boythrop , a Farmer in the county of York , sued for tythes by Charles Reane priest of Foxholes , in the said county ; the tythes demanded , twelve pounds , nineteen shillings and four pence ; an Execution was given out against him for trebble damage , which came to thirty eight pounds , eighteen shillings , which indeed is trebble principle . One Richard Whitehead came to the said Michael Simpson's House on the priests behalfe , and the said Richard opened the Stable-doors , and brought forth five Horses ; likewise he tooke twenty three beasts , six score and eleven old sheepe , and forty three young sheep , and the next morning prised the said goods ; Five Horses at ten pounds ; twenty three beasts at a mark a beast ; six score and eleven old sheep , at three shillings a sheep ; and the yong ones at one shilling a sheep ; in all they came to forty seven pounds , two shillings and eight pence ; but they sold them at Molton for fifty six pounds , twelve shillings and four pence , but were worth ninety one pounds , seven shillings . Thus in brief , For twelve pounds nineten shillings four pence , goods was taken away worth ninety one pounds , seven shillings . Iohn Hutton in the couny of York , nine pence being demanded of the said Iohn Hutton for repair of the Steeplehouse , goods taken from him to the value of two shillings and six pence , and nothing returned . The said Iohn Hutton for Clarks Wages , one shilling eight pence which they demanded , had took away a Cow worth two pounds eight shillings Likewise Iohn Hopper in the foresaid Town and County , for Clarks Wages , demanded the sum of four pence , had took away a Cow which was worth two pounds . Tho. Thompson of Maulton , Draper , had taken from him a piece of Cloth , near four yeards : the sum demanded was two shillings for the repair of the Steeplehouse , they took away goods worth eight shillings eight pence . Thomas Aldam of Warmsworth , in the County of York , by the means of Thomas Rooksby Priest , and Thomas Vincant of the same , Farmer to an Impropriator ; the same Tho. Aldam was cast in prison by their means in York Goal , and there kept two years & six months , in which time both the said parties sued him at the Law for not setting forth his tythes , which the Priests party swore to be worth five pounds ten shillings ; and Richard Nudigate Judge gave an Order to the Priest to take sixteen pounds ten shillings . By this you may know he is a Deceiver and a false Prophet . Again in the same year Tho. Vincant Tythemonger , procured his servants , Tho. Marshal , and Timothy Brigham , to swear the value o Tho. Aldams tythes , to be worth six pounds two shillings , for which Tho. Vincant had a Judgment from the said Nudigate , Judge , for eighteen pounds six shillings ; and for the said eighteen pounds six shillings , was taken four Oxen , seven Kine , one Steer , one Heifer , one Horse , one Mare , valued by Neighbors to be worthsorty two pounds ; distrained by Henry Worrell , bailiff , and sold by the said bailiff , and nothing returned again to Tho. Aldam , nor by him received . Again the said Tho. Rooksby Priest of Warmsworth , did sue Tho. Aldam for tythes , which he pretended to be due unto him in the year 1653. & 1654. and did get a Judgement from 10. Parker Judge , for twelve pounds out of the Lands and Goods of Tho. Aldam ; upon whose Goods Distresse was made by Godfrey Burton , bailiff , which took fifteen Loads of white Wheat out of Tho. Aldams Chamber , ready dressed , valued to be worth sixteen shillings six pence a Load , which in all is thirteen pounds , and nothing was returned again ; the spoil of these goods was taken in the year 1656. If this be not a heavy burden , grievous to be born , let all of understanding judge , to take from one man seventy one pounds for that which themselves swore to be but fourteen pounds twelve shillings , which is above fivefold the value . Iohn Kilam of Balby had taken from him for the repairing of the Steeplehouse , by the Order of Richard Bradforth then Mayor , a fat Bullock worth two pounds , six shillings and eight pence , in the year 1654. Again taken from Tho. Kilam for repairing of the same Steeplehouse at Doncaster , a Bullock worth one pound ten shillings by Order from the aforesaid Mayor ; the sum demanded was but seventeen shillings , in the year 1654. Again , taken from Tho. Kilam of the aforesaid place , half a quarter of Barley worth thirteen shillings , for the repairing of the aforesaid Steeplehouse , by Iohn Ward , Will . Patison , Iohn Creakehill , Collectors for the House of their god , in the year 1656. SVMMERSET . Vpon the 23. day of the first Month , 1657. late in the Evening , William Amoss , and Iohn Mead , ( called Churchwardens in the parish of Streat ) with two men more , ( called Bailiffs ) came to the Houses of the persons hereafter mentioned , and tooke away their goods ( as they said ) for the House which they called the Church ; and because for conscience-sake we could not repair their Bells , or uphold their Church , we suffer the spoiling of our goods , as appears by the Relation following . From Henry Gundry for ten shillings eleven pence demanded , they took away thirty one pounds of Bacon , worth six pence the pound ; and since the said Henry Gundry was arrested for non-payment of tythes , and taken by Iohn Midlehem as he was going with a draught of Oxen the first day of the fourth month , and carried away forthwith to the Goal at Ivelchester , where he remains prisoner to this day . From Iasper Bat they demanded eight shillings nine pence , and they took away a brasse pan , one pewter Flaggon , and two brasse . Candlesticks , to the value of about twenty shillings ; and she said Iasper Bat was the 24th . day of the 6th . moneth , 1657. arrested by the foresaid bailiff , and carryed him four miles towards the Goal ; but the bailiff being very civil towards him , then freed him on his giving a Note under his hand to appear at the upper-bench at Westminster , on the day called Saturday next after the morrow of All-souls , ( so called ) where he did accordingly appear , and offered a Note to one Judge Waberton , signifying the cause of his being there ; but the Iudge said he would receive nothing from him unlesse he would put off his Hat ; so the said Iasper Bat went to the upper-Bench-Office in the Inner-Temple , & desired to have his appearance recorded , and he would pay for it , but the men there present refused to record his Appearance without an Attorney , which he refused to have , and so left them . He was arrested for non payment of tythes . From Iohn Pittman they demanded six shillings three pence , and took away four Dishes worth about twelve shillings ; and since the said Iohn Pittman was summoned to appear at the Exchequer at Westminster in eight dayes after the day called St. Martine , in the yeere 1657. where he did appear accordingly ; but they refused to record his appearance unlesse he would see an Attorney . His summons was for non-payment of tythes From Edward Tayler they demanded one shilling six pence , and took away three pewter Dishes worth about six shillings and eight pence . From Agnes Barrat a poor widow , who for her meannesse was never rated to the poore , although the charge in that parish for the poore is great , yet they demanded one shilling and six pence of her , and took away a pewter Dish of her Grandchilds , worth about three shillings four pence : So that they neither spare poor VVidows , nor fatherlesse children , but devours their Houses , spoiles their Goods , and makes their prey upon them . Also William Shephard of Walton , in the same County , was summoned to appear that sixth day of the third month , 1657. at the Exchequer , where he appeared , and there was nothing charged against him , although he waited several dayes . From Iohn Dundo of Hollowtrow in the same County , for seventeen shillings ten pence demanded for tythes , was taken from him one pound seventeen shillings ten pence , by Order of Iohn Hippesley and Richard Ioanes , two of those in Commission to do justice in the same County . From Iohn Cole of Farrington , for one shilling six pence demanded for mending of the Steeplehouse , had taken a brasse Kettle worth six shillings , in the year 1656. Likewise Thomas Loscombe for two shillings eight pence demanded of him for the redairing of the Steeplehouse at Queene Camell , the Church wardens [ so called ] took away one brasse pan to the value of thirty shillings ; and since the said Thomas Loscombe was committed to prison , because for conscience sake he could not take an oath when appointed as a Surveyor for the high-wayes in the foresaid parish of Queen Camel , and hath continued a Prisoner neere eight Moneths , where he remains to this day . And all these sufferings are sustained by us who cannot be conforformable to the heathenish customes , and traditional worships of the world , neither can we give them our gold or silver to repair or uphold the Idols temple , where the unknown God is ignorantly worshipped by them whose idolatry and superstition is made manifest to , and denyed by the children of Light , whose souls are subject [ for conscience sake ] to the higher power . At Striate in the county of Sommerset , at a court held for Iohn Whitington , in the yeer 1657. there were present Iohn Pittman , and Iasper Batt , who are called Quakers , who for conscience sake could not swear , and also one VVill . Amoss , who is no Quaker , likewise refused to swear ; and the said Pittman and Batt were by the Steward fined twenty shillings a piece , but Will . Amoss was not fined at all . Christopher Pittard and George Taylor , riding through Ilchester to a Meeting to worship the Lord , ( about six miles from their dwellings ) had their Horses taken from them . On the first day of the Week likewise , Thomas Buds wife riding to the aforesaid Meeting four miles from her dwelling , Rob. Hunt , and John Cary , called Justices , directed a Warrant for the levying ten shillings by distresse on Tho. Buds goods for riding four miles to the VVorship of God . Hillary Term [ so called ] the 11th . Month , 1655. I made my personal appearance at Westminster before the Barons of the Exchequer , to answer a Bill exhibited against me for non-payment of tythes , at the Complaint of Thomas Ladd , Priest of Salford , in the County of Sommerset . To which Bill I answered ; but because I could not for conscience sake swear , and so return my Answer upon Oath , a VVrit or Warrant was issued forth against me , signed by Robert Hunt , being then high Sheriff of the County aforesaid ; by vertue whereof I was apprehended in a Meating at Kainsham the 26. day of the first Month , 1656. and so carryed to Ivelchester prison , where I have been kept , and remains a prisoner to this day . John Doget . Vpon the first day of the fourth Month , 1657. Henry Gundry was committed to the Goal at Ivelchester , where he now remains a prisoner for non-payment of tythes at the Complaint of one Josiah Primet , or in the behalf of the priest of Streate , neer Glastonbury in the County of Sommersec : and although the VVarrant to the keeper [ signed by William Helliard Sheriff of the County ] expressed that he the said William Helliard was to have his body before the Protector the Tuesday three weeks of the Holy Trinity , [ so called ] yet he remains a Prisoner in the Common-Goal at Ivelchester . Likewise Edmund Beackes was committed to the Goal at Ivelchester upon the first day of the seventh Moneth , 1657. where he is to remain in safe custody , as saith the VVarrant to the Keeper signed by William Helliard high Sheriff of the County of Sommerset ) so that he may have his body before the Protector eight dayes after the time called St. Martines , to answer one Thomas Edwards Priest of Kingson-Samor , in a common plea of Trespasse , which the said priest have declared to be for non-payment of tythes ; and although the VVarrant to the Keeper expressed that he the said William Helliard was to have his body before the Protector eight dayes after St. Martins , yet he remains a prisoner to this day . Also William Serjant of Bathford was taken prisoner at Bath the third day of the eight Moneth , 1657. and kept prisoner in Bath twelve dayes , contrary to the expresse words of the VVarrant , and afterwards sent to the Goal at Ivelchester at the Complaint of one Philip Elice of Bathford , for non payment of tythes ; and although the VVarrant expressed that he was to be at London within eight days of St. Martine , [ so called ] to answer the said Philip Elice in a plea of Trespass ; yet he is kept a prisoner at Ivelchester with the persons above-mentioned unto this day , being the nineth day of the tenth Month , 1657 NORFOLK . In the yeer 1656. Jonathan Clapham priest of Wramplingham in Norfolk , summoned one Benjamin Lynes to appear before several Justices in the said County , to thew the cause why he the said Benjamin did refuse to pay tythes to the said priest ; so he did appear : And the priest brought one John Benton of Wramplingham , and Thomas Park of Melton , to be his witnesses ; and both of them were so apparently forsworn , that the Justices did not accept of their testimony ; so another witnesse was examined , and he did testifie the tythes of the said Benjamin for one Meadow , to the value of twelve shillings , and no other tythes that he knew due from the said Benjamin : And for that twelve shillings which this one witnesse did testifie to be due to the said priest , Ralph VVooliner and one Richard Brown , ( two appointed to do Justice in the County ) signed a Judgement for above forty shillings ; and the said priest Clapham went himself with a man or two with him , & fetched out of the said Benjamin Lynes's ground , two Cows better worth then four pounds ; since which the said John Benton did get into the Steeplehouse at VVramplingham , and there hanged himself in a Bell-Rope ; and after he had so done , the said prieft Clapham [ as divers that were present have affirmed ] did to the Coroner and the Jury testifie upon his Oath , that the said John Benton had been a distracted man , or not composmentes , for three or four years before , yet the said priest brought him for his witnesse , and caused him to be forsworn ; so that this priest Clapbam is not onely a false teacher , but a false swearer ; for the man John Benton , was never known to be distracted , but was of a good reputation amongst his Neighbors , until the priest caused him to forswear himself for his dishonest gain . VVitnesse , John Lawrence , and Ben. Lynes . The said priest Clapham summoned John Lawrance to appear before several Justices , to shew the cause why he would not pay tithes : the said Lawrance did appear according to the summons , and the priest also with two false witnesses , Matthew Hawke , and Iohn Cornhil , who swore that John Lawrance had more acres of Corn then he had , as Iohn Lawrance did make appear before the Iustices ; neverthelesse the Iustices , Will . Steward , Iohn Bowrman , Ralph VVolmer , signed a Iudgement against the said Lawrance for five pounds sixteen shillings , which was eighteen shillings more then the witnesses swore , although they did swear falsly ; and the priest took for the five pounds sixteen shillings , three cowes , which was better worth then nine pounds . This priest Clapham hath caused four men to forswear themselves , one of which hath since hanged himselfin the priests Steeplehouse in a Bell-Rope , which is for an example for all false teachers , hirelings , and false swearers . VVitnessed by Iohn Lawrance , and Benjamin Lynes . NORFOLK . The Farmers of the Impropriation at Shottesham , Iohn Mingay , and Thomas Bransby , having gotten a warrant from them called Iustices , to take of Henry Halls forty five shillings for tythes , and fifteen shillings for costs , went the eighth month last to the Family of Henry at Shottesham , and took from them two cows worth about seven pounds . SVFFOLK . Ioseph Lawrence at the suit of Sam. Habbargham priest of Silham , for tythes for the value of two pounds fourteen shillings , did take from him two Kine worth ten pounds . Iames Norton for the value of one pound five shillings demanded as due , had taken from him three Firkins of Butter worth three pounds eighteen shillings . Iohn Frier for thirteen shillings four pence demanded as due , had taken away a cow worth three pounds six shillings . Again two called Iustices of peace , Rob. Knowles , and Iustice Elington , granted out a Iudgement against Ia. Norton for seven pounds ten shillings , besides what charges should be required ; whereas the yearly Rent is but seventeen pounds , six shillings six pence : So for the tythe he hath almost half the prise of the Rent . Again another Iudgement is given out by the same Iustices against Iohn Frier for six pounds ten shillings , besides what charges should be required , and the yeerly Rent of the Farm is but eighteen pounds eight shillings . Thomas Iudy is imprisoned because he could not swear to the giving in his Answer at the Exchequer , and so remains a prisoner in Edmundsbury . Richard White sued by Augustine Gobbit priest , for the value of two pounds ten shillings for tythes , for which they took away three cows worth twelve pounds . Tho. Bond being a Souldier in the Garrison at Langardforld-fort , had his corn taken away off his ground by a Souldier which the priest hired to do so , contrary to the Law . Geo. Sherwine is prisoner at Melton in Suffolk , and hath been long , because he could not pay tythes . Arthur Gorroud was not suffered to make his appearance according to the writ , but was cast into prison at Ipswich , and there remains , not onely without the transgression of a Law , but also contrary to the Law . And other two is in prison at Ipswich for denying tythes . NORFOLK . Richard Cousius for tythes at the suit of Tho. VVorts priest of Beningham , for the value of one pound eight shillings , took two Horses , and being not satisfied , the Constable came again , and took the clothes off a Bed , a covering , blankets and sheet , two pillowes , and brought them to the house where the priest was ; but the priest being not yet satisfied with two horses , and bed-clothes , came again the third time , and took another bed-clothes where upon the children lay , a Covering , two Blankets , and a paire of Sheetes , one boulster , and bid the constable take notice that he took them in his Lord Protectors Name ; and he carryed them where the priest was ; so for the value of one pound eight shillings , they tooke away goods worth eight pounds . Thomas Palmer at the suite of the same priest for tythes of the value of four pounds thirteen shillings demanded as due , had taken from him four horses worth more then twelve pounds . George Howles of Glaptan in the county of Suffolk , was subpoened up to London by Richard Rogers , Priest of the same town , for eight pence tythes , and the said George's wife would have agreed with the priest , and he said he would not take under nineteen shillings , and she consented to have given him nineteen shillings ; then he said he would not take it unless she would set her hand to give him nineteen shillings every yeer ; and so denying his unreasonable demands , the said George came up to London to make his appearance according to the Subpoena . Christopher Bisbrown for tythes which was claimed as due , eleven shillings , they took an Ox worth three pounds five shillings , and restored nothing . Again for the tythe claimed to be due , which came to one pound thirteen shillings , they took away a Yoke of Steers , worth threepounds , seven shillings and six pence . CHESHIRE . Great Budworth Parish ; Ephraim Elcock Priest . Thomas Buckley for tythes to the value of twelve shillings , had a Horse taken from him for the use of the said Priest , worth four pounds . George Veakin for the value of four pence half penny , which he claimed for smoke and Easter-Reckonings , had one brasse pot taken worth eight shillings . Likewise George Veakin for the value of six pence , which theydemanded for two yeers payment to the priest , had Tools taken from him worth seven shillings . Runkorn Parish , William Finmoore Priest . Henry Burtonwood for tythe of the value of five shillings , had one Cow taken from him worth two pounds thirteen shillings four pence , for the use of the said Priest . At another time Henry Burtonwood for tythe-corn to the value of two pounds , one shilling and a penny , had taken from him two Cows and one Heifer which was sold for seven pounds , for the use of the said priest . John Burtonwood for tythe-wool and lamb of the value of eight shillings and three pence , had taken from him two young beasts , which they sold for one pound five shillings . Tho. Boulton for tythe-corn of the value of thirteen shillings , had taken from him Corne worth five pounds , for the use of Henry Brookes . Sisley Cleaton had taken from her one Warming-Pan worth six shillings , for tythe-Flax , and she had none ; being sued at the Law , and cast by a false Oath , for the use of Collonel Brooks . Widow Royle for tythe-corn of the value of one pound three shillings , had taken from her one Cow worth three pounds ten shillings , for the use of Collonel Henry Brooks ; likewise she had taken from her one Load of Beans : Likewise she had one Bed-covering taken for Collonel Brooks . Fradsham Parish . Widow Milner for tythe-corn of the value of two pounds ten shillings , had taken from her one Mare and one Cow worth seven pounds ten shillings . And likewise for tythe-Oats of the value of eleven shillings , had taken from her one Cow worth two pounds , besides she lay in prison seven weeks for the same thing , for the use of the Earl Rivers . Tho. Hill for tythe-corn of the value of one pound ten shillings , for which he suffered fourteen weeks imprisonment , had taken from him five Load of Wheat out of the field worth five pounds ; for the use of the Earl Rivers . James Brown for tythe-corn of the value of one pound ten shillings , had goods taken from him worth five pounds thirteen shillings four pence by valuation , for the use of the Earl Rivers . William Sarrat for tythe-corn of the value of one pound six shillings eight pence , had goods taken from him worth five pounds ten shillings , and was in prison for the same seven Weeks . James Brown for tythe of the value of thirteen shillings four pence ( according to their own valuation ) had taken from him one yoke of Oxen worth seven pounds . Wilinslow Parish ; John Brewerton Priest . Tho. Janney for tythe-corn of the value of seven shillings six pence , had taken from him one Mare , out of which they took trebble damage . Tho. Janney for tythe-corn of the value of sixteen shillings six pence , had taken from him for the said priest two young Cows , better worth then six pounds . Thomas Janney for tythe-corn of the value of one pound eight shillings , had taken from him by Justice Writs one young Horse worth four pounds . Thomas Potts for tythe-corn for the value of one pound six shillings and eight pence , had taken from him two Heifers which they sold for three pounds ten shillings . John Worthington for tythe-corn of the value of three pounds six shillings , had taken from him one Mare and one young Horse , worth twelve pounds , for the use of the said priest . Thomas Burrows in the parish of Budworth , for tythes of the value of one pound three shillings , had taken from him one Heifer worth three pounds ten shillings . Richard Burges for tythe-corn of the value of nineteen shillings , had taken from him two Kine worth five pounds . Richard Burges for tythe-corn valued by the priests servants to sixteen shillings , had taken from him one yong heifer worth two pounds six shillings and eight pence . Lawrence Pearson for tythe of the value of eight shillings , had taken from him one Horse worth three pounds . Anne Janny of Handford for tythe of the value of thirteen shillings , had taken from her one Cow and one Heifer which were worth six pounds . Most of this cruelty hath been done by Writs from two Iustices , to wit , Tho. Standley , and Tho. Brearton , being servants to this Priests lusts . Moberly Parish , Robert Barlow Priest . Tho. Heale for tythe-corn of the value of fourteen shillings six pence , valued by the priests man , had taken from him one Heifer worth one pound thirteen shillings and four pence . Hugh Stretten for tythe-corn of the value of eleven shillings and six pence , had taken from him two Sacks of Oats worth one pound eight shillings . And the Constable of the town being troubled at it , asked the Priest why he took so much , seeing he professed not to take trebble damage of any ; the priest answered him , It cost him so much in Justices Dinners , and their men . CLARKS Wages , and repairing of STEEPLEHOVSES . Thomas Buckley for seven shillings two pence demanded , had taken from him a brasse pot worth ten shillings . Thomas Buckley for seventeen shillings demanded , had taken from him eleven measures of Oats worth one pound two shillings and eight pence . Henry Burtonwood for two shillings demanded , had goods taken worth five shillings . Henry Burtonwood for two shillings six pence , had taken from him four pewter Dishes worth seven shillings . Ell. Boulton for three shillings , had taken from him four pewter Dishes and a Bowle , and one Candle-stick , worth one pound three shillings , which is neer seven times the value , for the House of their God . Widow Royle had taken from her one brasse pan , and one pot , and a Dripping-pan , worth two pounds ten shillings , for repairing of the Steeplehouse at Runkorn . James Brown for two shillings , had taken from him goods worth six shillings . Thomas Hill for two shillings , had taken from him one pot worth sixteen shillings . And at another time he had one pot taken from him worth six shillings , because he could not pay one shilling . William Sarret because he could not pay two shillings six pence for the repair of the Steeplehouse , had taken from him one pot worth twelve shillings . John for two shillings demanded , had goods taken from him worth five shillings . Thomas Janny for six pence demanded , had goods taken from him worth five shillings . Again the said Janny had taken from him four Joynt-stools worth six shillings eight pence , for repairing of the Steepleplehouse . Thomas Pots for two pence , had taken from him a brass pot and a skimmer worth ten shillings , which is threescore times the damage . Again Tho. Pots for six shillings nine pence demanded , they took from him his Coat , which they sold for one pound . John Worthington for seven shillings demanded , had a brass pan , and two pewter Dishes taken from him , worth one pound . Iohn Worthington at another time had taken from him a paire of Cart-wheels bound with Iron , for repairing the Steeplehouse . Richard Burgges for three shillings demanded , had one brass pan taken worth seventeen shillings . Again Richard Burgges for six shillings , had taken from him a Gun worth ten shillings . Robert Milner for two shillings , had taken from him three pewter dishes worth seven shillings . At another time Robert Milner for two shillings , had a Gun taken from him worth nine shillings . Robert Pearson and his son for two shilling● six pence , had taken two pewter dishes worth three shillings four pence . Iames Harrison for two shillings eight pence demanded , which were due to be paid by another man upon their account , had his coat taken from him . Robert Pearson for three shillings four pence , had taken from him one brass pan worth twelve shillings . Iohn Falkner for one shilling four pence , had goods taken from him worth five shillings . Thomas Lieuzley for six shillings , had taken from him one pot worth sixteen shillings . All these Sums before-mentioned , was taken for repairing of the Steeplehouses . Concerning Swearing . Thomas Lieuzley because he could not swear , had a Cow taken from him worth two pounds ten shillings , and suffered six weeks and five days imprisonment for the same thing . And likewise seven of these Friends above-mentioned , viz. Tho. Ianny , Tho. Potts , Rich. Burgges , Rob. Milner , Ia. Harrison , and Edw. Elcock , suffered the spoiling of their Goods to the value of eleven pounds ten shillings , for passing to a Meeting but two Miles from their own Houses ; and this was done by two Justices , Edw. Hide , and Tho. Stanlay . A true Relation of a part of the sufferings in WALES for tythes . RADNARSHIRE . RIchard Morre for the value of ten shillings , pretended to be due for tythe-corn , by a Warrant from Richard King and Iohn Yardlay , which was executed by Tho. David , Rees David , and Will . Steven , for Edward Looyd tythe-monger , did violently come into Richard Morres ground , and drave away a Cow worth two pounds thirteen shillings and four pence . Again Richard Morre had taken from him for the same thing , one Mare worth three pounds eight shillings . In all , taken for ten shillings , six pounds and four pence , which is twelve times the value of the tythe . And again Hugh ap Iohn , and Will . Stephen , did come violently with one Evan Moras , into Richard Morres field , and carryed away his hard Corn , ( what they liked ) in the sight of three Witnesses . Iohn Watson , Tho. Watson , Evan Oliver . Witnesses hereof , Margret Watson , a poor Widow , which had no Land but a little piece which was given her upon a Common by her Neighbors ; the said Hugh ap Iohn , and Will . Stephen , swore that her tythes was worth one shilling four pence , did take away from her two pewter Dishes worth three shillings four pence . Likewise the aforesaid idle persons , Hugh ap Iohn , and Will . Stephen , did take away from Iohn Pearke for six shilling eight pence pretended to be due , a Colt worth one pound ten shillings . Likewse the aforesaid idle persons did without a warrant come into Evan Stevens ground , and for four shillings pretended to be due , took away a Mare worth two pounds . Again the said idle persons without a Warrant did go into Oliver Houls ground , and for five shillings pretended due , took away a Heifer which was worth one pound , for the use of the said Loyd above said . Witnesse , Meredith Evens , and Tho. Watson Likewise the said idle persons went into Iohn Bevandavids ground where he was plowing , and for three shillings four pence pretended to be due , did unyoke one Cow , the best the poor man had for plowing and other uses , among motherlesse children , which same Cow he had bought of the said Loyd , which was worth two pounds , thirteen shillings four pence . Again these five men before-mentioned , were summoned up to appear before the Barons of the Exchequer . Iames Miles summoned to appear at the Exchequer at the suit of Evan Daves . Charles Daves had taken from him for four shillings , pretended due by John Richards of the County of Radnar , a beast worth one pound ten shillings . More sufferings in Cumberland by Richard Hutton Priest of Calbeck . THo . Mark for the value of thirteen shillings six pence , had taken from him by a Justice Writ for tythes , two Oxen and three Kine worth ten pounds , which is above fourteen times the value . William Stalker for the value of nine shillings tythes , had taken from him two Oxen , and two Kine , worth nine pounds , which is twenty times the value . Tho. Buly for fourteen shillings tythes , had taken from him one Cow worth two pounds . Iohn Nickolson for nine shillings tythes , had taken from him one Oxe worth one pound thirteen shillings six pence . Rich. Williamson for five shillings nine pence tythe , had taken from him one Heifer worth one pound fifteen shillings , which was near seven times the value . Iohn Stricket for ten shillings tythes , had taken from him one Cow worth one pound ten shillings , which is three times the value . Mungo Arcock for twelve shillings tythe , had taken from him one Ox worth one pound six shillings eight pence . John Pattison for eight shillings four pence , had taken from him one Cow worth one pound . Iohn Askue for three shillings ten pence , had taken from him one Cow worth one pound ten shillings , which is above eight times the value . Tho. Askue for three shillings five pence , had goods taken from him worth seven shillings . Iohn Pattison for sixteen shillings eleven pence , tythe , had taken from him seven bushels of Oats , and two bushels of Barley , which was worth one pound five shillings and six pence . Iohn Stricket for sixteen shillings four pence , had taken from him one Cow worth three pounds sixteen shillings eight pence , which was above four times the value . Iohn Askue for fifteen shillings ten pence , had taken from him Barley and Sacks worth two pounds four shillings ten pence . William Stalker for fifteen shillings two pence , had goods taken from him worth one pound four shillings . Iohn Nickolson for eighteen shillings four pence , had taken from him one Cow worth two pounds . Iohn Peacock for one pound five shillings , had taken from him goods worth one pound eighteen shillings . Tho. Buly for thirteen shillings , had taken from him one Cow worth two pounds ten shillings . All these suffered by Richard Hutton Priest , who hath sued four of them up to London by a Subpoena , to appear before the Barons of the Exchequer , to answer for the same thing for which he hath sued them in the County-Court ; and this Priest hath summoned to the County-Court at one time twenty three honest people , as followeth . Thomas Bewly , Iohn Nickolson , Iohn Simson , Widow Peccastom , Richard Nickolson , William Pearson , Richard Williamson , Iohn Sowerbee , Hugh Peacock , Tho. Mark , elder . Tho. Mark , yonger . Iohn Stricket . Mungo Arcock , Richard Wilson , William Scot , Iohn Pattison , Tho. Askue , Iohn Askue , elder . Iohn Askue , yong . John Peacock , William Stalker , George Scot , Rich. Scot . All these have suffered by one Priest whom they do not hear . The sum demanded is , ten pounds nine shillings & five pence . The sum taken is , thirty five pounds one shilling & two pence . Graystock Parish . Richard Peacock had taken from him one Iron pot , three pans , two pewter dishes , worth eighteen shillings , for repairing of Graystock Steeplehouse . Rich. Peacock younger , for repairing of the same House , had taken from him one pan and three pewter dishes , worth nine shillings . Deacar Parish . Edward Walker of Soulby for the value of sixteene shillings six pence , pretended as due for tythes , had taken from him twenty Weather-sheep worth two pounds thirteen shillings four pence . Edw. Walker for the value of six pence for Clarks wages , had taken from him two pewter Dishes worth five shillings , by Tho. Robinson , Clark . John Mark for the value of three shillings four pence for the repairing of the Steeplehouse , had Goods taken from him worth thirteen shillings . John Todhunter for the value of six shillings eight pence , had taken from him one pot and two pans , worth twelve shillings and six pence . Iohn Mark because he could not swear , was fined six shillings eight pence . Matthew Robinson for the value of three pounds eight shillings eight pence , as the Farmers themselves did value , and were the witnesses in their own cases , contrary to Law , had taken from him four Oxen , and they sold them for twelve pounds two shillings and six pence . Again this said Matthew Robinson being coming from the Market , Richard Lingard one of the murtherous Priests did strive to ride over him in the high-way , and caused one that was with him to take away his hat from him , and went away with it , and never gave him it again , and so caused Matthew Robinson to go bare-headed home , which is theft according to the Law . John Head for two shillings ten pence , pretended as due for tythe , had taken from him one Iron pot and two pewter dishes worth eleven shillings . John Gill for the value of two pounds ten shillings demanded as due , had taken from him four beasts worth six pounds . Henry Johnson for tythe of the value of one pound one shilling , had taken from him one Cow and Calf worth three pounds two shillings . Richard Fawcet for the value of one pound one shilling , had taken from him two beasts worth four pounds . Iohn Fearon for the value of one pound four shillings and four pence , had taken from him two Kine worth five pounds . Iohn Dickson had taken from him one tythe-Hen for the use of the Priest . Christopher Burket for the value of one pound five shillings , had taken from him two Beasts worth three pounds fifteen shillings . A tax for the Parish-Church , so called , Goods distrained , as followeth . Robert Swift for two shillings eight pence , had goods taken worth ten shillings . Tho. Farnworth for three shillings five pence , had goods taken worth six shillings . Tho. Farnworth Senior , for six pence , had goods taken worth four shillings six pence . Ioan Lamber for four shillings eight pence , had goods taken worth eight shillings . Ben. Nickolson for two shillings four pence , had goods taken worth eight shillings . Will. Bell for four pence , had goods taken worth four shillings . For tythes for the Priest of Tixal . Robert Swift for fifteen shillings , had goods taken worth one pound eighteen shillings . Joane Lambart for eight shillings , had goods taken worth one pound ten shillings , Ben. Nickolson for four shillings , had goods taken worth sixteen shillings . Isaac Smith for one pound , had goods taken worth three pounds . And again , for one pound ten shillings , had good taken worth three pounds . The total sum demanded , 13 l. 17 s. 1 d The total sum recovered , 26 l. 13 s. 00. More in ESSEX . Giffine Pery for the value of two pounds ten shillings tythes , had taken from him five Cows worth eighteen pounds . Moses Davie for the value of six pounds , had taken from him four Mares and sixteen Ewes , worth above twenty eight pounds . Iohn Crosier for the value of five pounds , had taken from him for the Earl of Warwick six Cows , and a Bull , and a Heifer , which was worth twenty three pounds . And the said John Crosier and Moses Davie is carryed to prison for tythes , notwithstanding all these goods was taken away . Stephen Davy , Sam. Skillingham , Iohn Child , are sued for tythes in the Vpper-bench . Iohn Chopper sued for tythes at the Exchequer . An Abstract of the sufferings of the innocent mentioned in this Book , for not paying Tythes , for not repairing Steeplehouses , and not swearing , which gives a brief view of the sadness of their sufferings , and weight of their oppressions . CAMBRIDGESHIRE .   Value of tythes demanded . Value of goods taken .   l. s. d. l. s. d. RObert Letchworth for 01 00 00 05 00 00 Stephen Wilson for 00 12 0 02 10 00 William Crane for 00 06 00 00 11 06 Robert Crabb for 00 01 01 00 07 00 Clement Crabb for 00 07 06 01 00 00 Henry Place for 00 01 06 00 03 00 Iohn Peachy for 00 12 00 02 00 00 Sam. Cater for 00 00 10 00 05 00 Robert Asplan for 00 11 06 01 10 00 Tho. Dorman for 00 01 08 00 06 08 Will . Iohnson for 00 09 10 01 13 00 Robert Asplan for 03 15 00 14 00 00 Robert Crabb for 00 01 10 00 04 10 Henry Place for 00 00 05 00 00 10 Thomas Hawks for 00 00 04 00 04 00 John Love for 00 01 08 00 10 08 Robert Asplan for 00 01 04 00 05 00 Will . Grounds for 00 02 01 00 10 00 ESSEX . Robert Nicholl for 19 00 00 50 00 00 Robert Adams for 00 16 00 05 10 00 GLOCESTERSHIRE . William Wooley for 00 00 00 05 00 00 John Cathaby for 00 08 00 01 10 00 NORFOLK . Villiam Barker for 01 06 00 06 00 00 Richard Cosin for 01 10 00 03 10 00 Benjamin Lynes for 01 10 00 04 00 00 SVFFOLK . Nichol . VVhite for 01 10 00 12 00 00 Antho. Kittel for 00 10 00 02 00 00 KENT . VVilliam Beane for 00 00 00 00 13 04 WILTSHIRE . John Jay for 03 04 00 12 00 00 Roger Haukins for 00 10 00 02 10 00 Robert Smart for 00 18 00 03 00 00 VVill . Player for 00 09 00 02 10 00 Yorkshire , Liverton . Robert Parret for 02 00 00 05 10 00 The same man for 00 00 00 00 16 00 The same man for 00 00 05 00 02 00 William Tiplady for 02 06 08 05 04 04 The same for 02 06 08 08 00 00 Robert Tilady for 04 00 10 16 19 10 Nichol . Tiplady for 01 10 00 03 05 04 Robert Stonehouse for 03 00 05 14 12 00 James Stonehouse for 00 00 05 00 03 00 Rowland Thorpe for 00 00 00 00 05 00 Eliz. Carcroft for 00 00 02 00 01 08 Eastriding . Thomas Leeming for 00 09 00 01 13 04 Thomas Leeming for 02 02 00 07 00 00 More for 00 14 00 03 00 00 Marmaduke Stephenson for 00 02 00 01 00 00 Iohn Wilson for 00 06 10 01 10 00 More for 02 04 11 06 10 00 Walter Hall for 02 11 00 10 00 00 Iohn Cook for 00 15 00 04 10 00 Christopher Hurdsman for 00 01 03 02 00 00 Christopher Hutton for 00 01 08 00 04 00 James Turner for 00 05 10 02 15 00 Christopher Wilson for 00 03 04 00 10 00 Henry Wilson for 00 00 10 00 04 06 Iohn Smith for 02 03 02 04 14 04 Alexander Harland for 00 03 00 03 02 00 Christopher VValkington for 00 00 06 00 01 06 VVilliam Loftus for 00 12 00 05 00 00 More for 00 18 07 03 00 00 VVilliam Iackson for 00 10 00 00 16 00 Millison Legg for 00 05 00 00 08 00 Eliz. VVhitehead for 00 01 06 00 11 00 Thomas Tanfield for 00 01 00 00 07 00 Iohn Nicholson for 00 08 00 09 00 00 Richard Hawcock for 02 05 00 14 00 00 John Bird for 00 01 00 03 00 00 Marmaduke Storr for 00 03 00 02 00 00 Westmorland . William Hebson for 02 11 00 08 06 08 William Holme for 01 14 08 04 15 00 Rowland Smith for 00 06 00 01 06 08 Richard Holme for 01 07 00 03 04 00 Agnes Teasdell for 01 11 00 05 00 00 Edw. Robinson for 00 16 09 04 06 08 Richard Smith for 00 08 06 01 00 00 John Sutton for 01 04 00 03 10 00 John Cam for 01 08 06 03 00 00 More for 01 09 00 04 00 00 Mabel Camme for 00 00 08 00 08 00 Cumberland . Richard Robinson for 01 08 00 04 00 00 Widow Ayket for 01 08 00 04 00 00 Iohn Wilkinson for 00 02 06 03 00 00 Thomas Potter for 02 00 00 06 00 00 Iohn Pattison for 00 03 00 00 08 09 Thomas Wilson , alias Stamper for 00 12 00 02 00 00 Hugh Tickell for 00 06 04 01 01 07 Iohn VVilson for 00 07 00 01 10 00 Christopher Scot for 00 19 00 02 00 00 Anthony Tickell for 00 04 00 00 14 00 Iohn Ardell for 00 15 00 01 07 00 Iohn Bounskill for 00 02 08 00 07 00 VVilliam Bowman for 00 09 00 00 16 00 Elinor Dixon for 00 01 06 00 09 00 John Hodgson for 00 02 00 00 04 07 Lancelot Feron for 00 16 03 00 18 00 Widow Ayket for 00 00 10 00 04 00 Henry Lowthet for 00 03 04 00 06 08 Sufferings for not swearing . ISLE of ELY .   l. s. d. WIlliam Grounds 5 0 0 YORKSHIRE . Robert Parret 1 8 0 Robert Stonehouse 0 10 0 Rowland Thorp 0 5 0 Iohn Wilson 0 6 8 CUMBERLAND . Iohn Fell 0 8 0 Thomas Fell 0 8 4 Iohn Caipe 0 9 6 Iohn Senhouse 1 10 0 Henry Louthaite 0 16 0 Iohn Richardson 0 11 0   11 12 6 Edmond Hunter 4 0 0 The total summe demanded is , 95 16 10 The total summe recovered is , 366 16 9 Which is almost four times the full value , viz. Fourfold damage . More sufferings , as followeth . SVFFOLK .   Value of tythes demanded . Value of goods taken .   l. s. d. l. s. d. Ioseph Lawrance for 2 14 0 10 0 0 Iames Norton for 1 5 0 03 18 0 Iohn Frier for 0 13 4 03 6 0 Again , James Nortons Farme being but 17 l. 16 s. 6 d. Rent , for tythes of which Farm had taken from him — 7 10 0       John Frier , his Farm being but 18 l. 8 s. hath taken from him for the tythe of it , 6 l. 10 s.             Richard White for 02 10 00 12 00 00 NORFOLK . Richard Cousine for 01 08 00 08 00 00 Thomas Palmer for 04 13 00 12 00 00 SOMMERSET . Henry Gundry for 00 10 11 00 15 06 Jasper ●att for 00 08 09 01 00 00 John Pittman for 00 06 03 00 12 00 Edward Taylor for 00 01 06 00 06 08 Agnes Bratt for 00 01 06 00 03 04 John Vando for 00 17 10 01 17 10 John Coll for 00 01 06 00 06 00 Thomas Loscomb for 00 11 08 01 10 00 An Abstract of some of the sufferings of the People of God in scorn called QUAKERS for tythes , and other things mentioned in another Book formerly printed . Graystock Parish , Richard Gilpin Priest .   Value of tythes demanded . Value of goods taken .   l. s. d. l. s. d. RIchard Peacock for 00 08 04 02 06 08 Iohn Slee for 00 06 00 00 16 00 The same for 00 14 00 01 02 06 Margret Slee , Widow , And Rich. her sonne . for 00 00 00 00 18 00 Agnes Buckbarrow , Thomas Buckbarrow , Richard Buckbarrow , for 00 16 00 01 16 00 John Mark for 00 06 00 00 11 00 The same for 01 03 00 01 10 00 Iohn Todhunter for 00 01 10 00 10 00 The same for 00 04 00 00 18 00 Iohn Slee for 00 08 00 00 14 00 Iohn Bewley for 00 19 00 04 10 00 Iohn Sowerby for 00 06 00 00 12 00 John Vdal for 00 04 00 00 13 08 Richard Peacock for 01 00 04 02 00 00 Tho. Barker for 00 14 02 02 00 00 John Goodhowse for 00 09 00 02 00 00 Caldbeck Parish , Richard Hutton Priest . William Stalker for 00 09 00 08 10 00 Richard Williamson for 00 05 09 01 15 00 Richard Nicholson for 00 10 00 02 10 00 John Nicholson for 00 09 00 01 13 04 Thomas Bewley for 00 14 00 02 00 00 Iohn Stricket for 00 10 00 01 10 00 Mungo Arcock for 00 10 00 01 06 08 John Pattison for 00 08 04 01 00 00 John Askue for 00 03 10 01 10 00 John Bewley for 00 19 00 02 10 00 Richard Banks for 00 10 00 01 01 00 Thomas Mark for 00 13 00 10 00 00 Bol●on Parish , John Forward Priest . Thomas Porter for 00 06 08 02 13 04 John Wilkinson for 00 04 00 02 10 00 John Pattison for 00 06 00 01 18 00 John Wilkinson for 00 11 00 02 00 00 Vidal● Parish , Henry Fallowseild priest . VVilliam Caipe for 01 05 10 03 00 00 Thomas Fell for 00 10 04 02 05 00 John Caipe for 00 05 00 00 13 00 Matthew Caipe for 00 17 00 03 00 00 Thomas Fell for 00 16 00 01 10 00 John Fell , elder , for 01 03 00 04 00 00 Thomas Fell for 00 10 00 01 10 00 John Caipe for 00 12 08 01 04 00 George Scott for 00 09 00 00 13 04 Skelton Parish , George Tiball Priest . Thomas Harrison for 00 09 01 01 01 06 John Banke for 00 18 00 01 06 08 Priest Jackson of Hutton Richard Ireland for 00 08 00 02 19 00 The called Lady Fletcher . Mungo Bewley for 00 14 00 03 00 00 James Steward , priest of Westward : Henry Louthaite for 00 01 00 00 04 00 Priest Nicholls of Aicton . James Barne for 00 12 00 01 05 00 Priest Pattison of Kirkbride . Matthew Kirkbride for 00 01 00 00 12 00 Peter Head for 00 12 00 03 00 00 For Sir George Fletcher , so called . Widow Head for 01 02 00 06 10 00 Mungo VVilson for 00 07 00 02 00 00 Rich. Whiney for 00 07 00 01 17 00 William Allison for 00 07 00 01 16 00 Antho. Scrugham for 00 03 04 01 04 00 James VVilson for 01 02 00 06 10 00 Jo. Salkeld of Threpland . Alex. Stamper for 02 00 00 05 00 00 Tho Walker for 02 00 00 20 00 00 Leo . Fisher for 00 05 00 01 00 00 Iohn Fell for 00 00 07 00 05 00 Geo. Rothery for 00 01 09 00 06 00 Priest Egglesfeild of Plumland . John Iredell for 00 06 08 01 00 00 William Bowman for 00 16 00 02 16 04 Tho. Head for 01 04 00 10 00 00 William Pearson for 00 02 08 03 00 00 The same for 00 03 00 01 02 00 John Richardson for 00 12 00 02 05 00 Graystock Parish , another yeer for priest Gilpin . Iohn Slee for 00 18 00 02 00 00 The same for 00 01 00 00 10 00 10. Mark , elder , for 00 17 00 04 00 00 10. Mark , younger , for 01 01 04 02 18 04 John Sowerby for 00 04 00 00 10 06 GRAYSTOCK . John Todhunter for 00 09 11 01 00 00 VVidow Buckbarrow and her Sons for 00 18 0● 02 05 00 Iohn Bewley for 00 19 0● 02 05 00 VVidow Slee , & Rich. Slee for 00 11 02 01 08 00 Thomas Slee for 00 07 00 01 00 00 Cuthbert Hodgson for 00 14 00 01 15 00 Iohn , Sowerby for 00 14 00 04 00 00 Caldbeck parish . John Strickes for 00 16 00 02 10 00 Rich. Wilson for 00 01 00 00 07 00 Thomas Haskin for 00 02 04 00 06 08 Iohn Haskin for 00 12 07 02 00 00 Iohn Peacock for 01 02 02 01 17 00 George Scot for 00 15 00 00 18 08 Iohn Relfe for 00 05 03 01 10 00 William Stalker for 00 08 03 01 00 00 Thomas Mark for 01 02 04 02 14 00 Iohn Nicholson for 00 12 08 02 00 00 Richard Scot for 00 04 10 00 07 00 VVidow Preistman for 00 08 03 01 00 03 Thomas Bewley for 01 08 06 03 06 00 Thomas Rickaby for 00 00 05 00 02 06 Brigham parish . William Richardson for 01 10 04 03 10 00 Henry Iohnson for 00 13 09 02 13 04 John Gill for 00 13 04 02 10 00 Cockermouth parish . Richard Nucomb for 00 03 06 02 13 04 Deane parish . Isabel Head , VVidow , for 01 04 00 11 00 00 Peter Head for 00 12 00 04 00 00 Christopher Manser for 01 04 10 05 00 00 Caldbeck parish , Richard Hutton priest . Thomas Mark for 00 17 00 02 14 00 The same for 00 16 00 08 00 00 John Pattison for 00 16 11 01 05 06 Richard Scot for 00 04 04 00 07 04 Iohn Stricket for 00 16 04 03 06 08 Thomas Haskin for 00 03 05 00 07 00 Iohn Haskin , elder , for 00 15 02 02 04 10 William Stalker for 00 15 02 01 04 00 Iohn Nicholson for 00 13 04 02 00 00 Iohn Peacock for 01 00 00 01 10 06 Bolton parish . John Pattison for 01 02 00 02 10 00 John Wilkinson for 00 04 08 02 15 00 THRE PLAND . Thomas Walker for 01 03 00 10 00 00 Richard Robinson for 01 10 00 20 00 00 YORKSHIRE . Iames Gurnell for 00 05 10 01 07 06 Robert Everat for 01 11 00 03 00 00 Iohn Iayher for 00 06 06 00 16 04 Alexander Harland for 00 03 00 00 15 00 William Sharpe for 00 16 00 03 06 08 Matthew Maire for 00 14 00 05 00 00 Thomas Agar for 00 01 01 04 17 00 William Thorpe for 00 01 01 00 15 06 Robert Bell for 00 00 07 00 16 00 George Matthew for 00 02 00 00 19 00 Edward Guy for 00 02 09 00 13 08 Richard Guy for 00 06 04 01 07 00 George Bland for 00 00 02 00 16 00 More for 00 00 08 00 15 00 Richard Wickinton for 01 14 08 10 00 00 John Wilson for 03 10 00 08 15 00 Walter Hall for 01 13 00 07 00 00 Alexander Harland for 03 10 00 08 10 00 Michael Simpson for the tythe of Land which he farmed for 42 l. per an.       54 00 00 William Pearson for 10 00 00 33 06 08 Christopher Hutton for 04 12 06 07 00 00 Jeffrey Nicholson for 01 14 00 08 00 00 Richard Simpson for 00 00 01 00 15 00 Iohn Goodrick for 00 00 02 00 15 00 Iohn Pickering for the tythe of four Calves .       00 04 11 Iames Cookeson for 00 70 09 02 00 00 William Peart for 01 06 08 03 00 00 Valentine Iohnson for 00 05 08 02 00 00 Josias Cookeson for 00 12 09 02 00 00 Thomas Scot for 00 11 06 06 00 00 Thomas Johnson for 01 14 00 02 12 00 Iohn Walker for 00 18 04 01 05 00 Thomas Thurnham for 00 16 00 01 03 00 Richard Thomlinson for 00 01 06 05 00 00 Yorkshire , Sedberge , and thereabouts . Thomas Aldam for 14 12 00 71 00 00 Thomas Blaikeling for 01 00 03 03 10 00 Edward Atkinson for 00 09 03 04 00 00 Richard Speight for 00 05 11 03 00 00 Antho. Willan for 00 15 00 03 00 00 Tho. Willan for 00 10 03 04 00 00 George Maison for 00 05 00 02 13 04 Thomas Bankes for 00 19 06 04 00 00 Caike parish , Iames Williamson priest .   Value of tythe demanded . Value of goods taken .   l. s. d. l. s. d. Iosias Cookeson for 00 00 0● 00 10 07 Iames Cookeson for 00 00 1● 00 10 10 Iohn Walker for 00 01 00 00 11 00 Tho. Iohnson for 00 04 0● 00 14 08 Westmorland , Jo. Vaux , priest of great Musgrave . Edmond Whitwell for 00 00 06 02 18 04 John Sutton for 01 01 00 06 13 04 John Wilkinson for 01 11 00 20 00 00 Iohn Wilkinson for 01 10 00 05 00 00 Jo. Fallowfeild for 00 15 00 05 00 00 Henry Laycock for 00 02 00 00 18 00 Iohn Thompson for 00 16 00 02 10 00 VVilliam Hebson for 03 09 04 07 00 00 William Holme for 01 03 00 02 04 00 Thomas Alexander for 00 01 08 00 05 00 Iohn Smith for 00 04 06 00 08 00 Thomas VVharton for 00 00 06 00 02 00 Henry Laycock for 01 06 00 03 00 00 More for 00 02 00 01 00 00 Richard Smith for 00 05 06 00 17 00 John Wilkinson for 00 09 03 01 02 00 Alice Wilson for 00 08 00 00 16 00 Edmond VVhitwell for 00 04 06 00 09 00 Agnes Tarne for 00 10 00 01 04 00 Musgrave Parish . Iohn VVilliamson for 00 13 00 0 00 00 His son for 01 10 00 20 00 00 LANCASHIRE . Richard Ashburner for 01 00 00 02 18 04 More for 01 03 04 04 00 00 VVilliam Greenbanke for 06 00 00 22 00 00 Alice VVoodhead for 01 01 00 05 00 00 DVRHAM . Iohn Richmond for 08 00 00 40 00 00 Clarks VVages , and repair of Steeplehouses .   l. s. d. l. s. d. RIchard Peacock for 00 01 00 00 01 06 Thomas Barker for 00 00 06 00 01 00 Iohn Marke for 00 00 06 00 01 00 Iohn Dixon for 00 10 00 00 16 00 Tho. Fletcher for 00 00 04 00 01 00 Iohn Tison for 00 00 04 00 00 09 Iohn Pattison for 00 00 00 00 05 06 James Wilson 00 07 00       Mungo Wilson 00 05 00       Richard Whiney 00 03 00       Anthony Scrugham 00 02 03       William Iackson 00 09 00       More Sufferings for not swearing .   l. s. d. EDward Peacock 01 10 00 Michael Nicholson 00 17 00 William Pearson 02 00 00 More 03 00 00 Matthew Kirkbride 01 17 00 Iohn Peacock 01 10 00 Iohn Stainton 01 06 00 Hugh Tickell 00 14 00 Thomas Pyle 00 10 00 Christopher Manser 03 10 00 William Stamper 03 10 00 Iohn Fell 00 05 00 Thomas Fell 00 06 08 Iohn Caipe 00 04 00 Thomas Fletcher 01 11 04 The same 00 06 08 The same 01 10 00 Iohn Dixon 00 16 00 George Burden 00 13 00 CHESHIRE .   Value of tythes demanded . Value of goods taken .   l. s. d. l. s. d. Great Budworth parish . Thomas Buckley for 00 12 00 04 00 00 George Veakine for 00 00 04 00 08 00 George Veakine for 00 0● 06 00 07 00 Runkorn Parish . Henry Burtonwood for 00 05 00 02 15 04 Henry Burtonwood for 02 01 01 07 00 00 John Burtonwood for 00 08 03 01 05 00 Tho. Boulton for 00 13 00 05 00 00 Sisley Cleaton for 00 00 00 00 06 00 Widow Royle for 01 03 00 03 10 00 Frodsome parish . Widow Milner for 02 07 00 07 10 00 Widow Milner for 00 11 00 02 00 00 Thomas Hill for 01 10 00 05 00 00 James Brown for 01 10 00 05 13 04 William Sarret for 01 06 08 05 10 00 James Brown for 00 13 04 07 00 00 Wilinslow parish . Tho. Janney for 00 07 06 01 02 06 Tho. Janney for 00 16 06 06 00 00 Tho. Janney for 01 08 00 04 00 00 Tho. Potts for 01 06 08 03 10 00 John Worthington for 03 06 00 12 00 00 Thomas Burrowes for 01 03 00 03 10 00 Richard Burgges for 00 19 00 05 00 00 Richard Burgges for 00 16 00 02 06 08 Lawrance Pearson for 00 08 00 03 00 00 Anne Janney for 00 13 00 06 00 00 Mobberley parish . Thomas Heale for 00 14 06 01 13 04 Hugh Strettle for 00 11 06 01 08 00 For repairing STEEPLEHOVSES .   l. s. d. l. s. d. THo . Buckley for 00 07 02 00 10 00 Tho. Buckley for 00 17 00 01 02 08 Henry Burtonwood for 00 04 06 00 12 00 Ellihu Boulton for 00 03 00 01 03 00 Widow Royle for 00 10 00 02 10 00 James Brown for 00 02 00 00 06 00 Thomas Hill for 00 02 00 00 16 00 Thomas Hill for 00 01 00 00 06 00 William Sarret for 00 02 06 00 12 00 John Burtonwood for 00 02 00 00 05 00 Thomas Janney for 00 00 06 00 11 08 Thomas Pots for 00 00 02 00 10 00 Thomas Pots for 00 06 09 01 00 00 Tho. Worthington for 00 07 00 01 00 00 Richard Burges for 00 09 00 01 07 00 Robert Miller for 00 02 00 00 07 00 Robert Miller for 00 02 00 00 09 00 Robert Pearson for 00 02 06 00 03 04 James Harrison for 00 02 08 00 10 00 Robert Pearson for 00 03 04 00 12 00 John Falkner for 00 01 04 00 05 00 Tho. Lieuzley for 00 06 00 00 16 00   02 07 09 21 18 00 Concerning swearing . Tho. Lieuzley 02 10 00 Thomas Janney , Thomas Potts , Richard Burges , Robert Miller , James Harrison , Edward Allcock , 11 00 00 VVALES .   Value of tythes demanded . Value of goods taken .   l. s. d. l. s. d. RIchard Morre for 00 10 00 06 00 00 Margret Waison for 00 01 04 00 03 04 Iohn Pearke for 00 06 08 01 10 00 Evan Stevans for 00 04 00 02 00 00 Oliver Hould for 00 05 00 01 00 00 John Bevan-david for 00 03 04 02 13 04 Charles Davise for 00 04 00 01 10 00   01 14 04 14 16 08 The summe demandedis , 01 14 04       The summe recovered is , 14 16 08       VVhich is fourteen times the value . The total summe of all demanded , 373 l. 12 s. 00 The total summe recovered , 1568 l. 14 s. 8 d. More sufferings in Lancashire by Thomas Show Priest of the Parish of Aldingham . RIchard Myers for the value of three pounds tythe , demanded as due to Priest Show , was by a Writ cast into prison , & there remained prisoner two years and five months , and in that time of imprisonment for the same thing was sued up to London to answer it , and thereupon he had liberty from the Sheriff to go to make his appearance ; & after that he had made his appearance at London , & was freed from his imprisonment by Order , he was again summoned to appear at the Assise at Lancaster , to answer to the same thing ; & the priest got a Judgement against him , and for the value of three pounds , took away from him five Beasts worth fifteen pounds ; and the Bailiff for six pence ( which he demanded as due for warning him to the Sessions ) took from him a pan worth ten shillings . So the Priests and Bailiffs , and all Covetous Oppressors agree in causing the harmless to suffer , who ows no man any thing but love . Richard Ashburner for two pounds one shilling and three pence , had taken from him a Horse and a Cow worth six pounds eighteen shillings four pence ; and when they had taken this , they said they wanted seven shillings three pence of their sum , and for that the priest Show caused the body of Richard Ashburner to be taken within ten dayes after , and to be put in close prison , and there to be kept until he dyed . Thomas Fell for one pound four shillings , had taken from him two Horses worth four pounds . Iames Chambers for the value of one pound six shillings eight pence , had taken from him a Horse worth four pounds . William Simpson for the value of seventeen shillings , had taken from him a Mare worth four pounds , for the priests use . Again Thomas Fell by the same priest had his Corn taken away off his ground ; for the priests servants carries peoples corn away upon their backs , and breaks down their Hedges and Walls like thieves , and yet is not punished ; and when they had taken away his Corn off his ground , they took from him a young Oxe worth two pounds seven shillings . Again , Tho. Fell had three Sheepe taken from him for the same priest , for the like things . Edm. Cleoeton ( for three shillings six pence demanded as due for tythes ) was summoned to answer at Lancaster , where he cast the priest ; and the priest did again renew the suit , and by the Oath of a false Witness , one Symond Mount , who did swear to that which he did not see , as was confessed in the Court afterwards ; upon which Evan Walls Steward of the County-Court , gave out a Iudgement for ten shillings six pence , for which they took a Mare worth six pounds . So here is six pounds taken for three shillings six pence tythe , which is thirty four times the value , and more . Cartmal Parish . Iames Taylor , Tho. Atkinson , Richard Britten , Richard Roper , Iohn Barrow , Alexander Rigge , Lawrance Newton , George Garnet , William Pull , for denying to pay tythes , was sued up to answer in the Common-Pleas , in the year 1655. where they appeared to bear a true witness for the Lord against them , and their adversarie not bringing in his Bill against them , was by the Court ordered to pay them four pounds ten shillings , which was brought unto them ▪ but they denyed his money , that so their innocent and clean lives might stand a witnesse against their Enemies cruelty . But again the next Term their Enemy ( Tho. Priston of Houlcar , Esq ) sued them again into the Exchequer , and all , excepting Rich. Roper , for the same thing , where they did appear to give their testimony against tythes , and also against his lying Declaration against them ; but they were not permitted to give in their true testimony except they would swear , and so transgress the command of Christ , who saith , Swear not at all . And again for the same tythes in the yeer 1656. they were sued in the Court in the said Parish of Cartmal , and there proceeded against them ; and from James Taylor took a Horse , and from Richard Brittan another Horse , and apprehended the bodies of Thomas Atkinson and Iohn Barrow , by a Warrant from Ioh. Starkey , and so was cast into prison , and when they were in prison , they took away a cow from Iohn Barrow ; so that he was both imprisoned , and had his goods taken for the same thing . Mighaels Parish . VVilliam Brewer for the value of three shillings tythe , had taken from him goods worth one pound three shillings . Kellat Parish . Thomas Leaper for denying to pay tythes , was sued at the County-Court at Lancaster , by William Atkinson , who brought four Witnesses to swear for him , one of which was Priest Jacques , who was the first priest that swore against the truth , and the Ministers of it in its appearance in Lancashire , and hath continued in swearing and lying against the truth ever since , and so ( as the Scripture saith of evil men ) is grown worse and worse and by his Oath , and the rest that joyned with him in the Devils work , viz. to swear , and that falsly , have caused to be taken from the said Thomas Leaper , four beasts worth fourteen pounds , and the value of the tythes was but four pounds four shillings . Robert Walker , Tho. Commin , Geo. Styth , Tho. Green , Richard Weaver , was all fined ten shillings a piece at a Court holden at Lancaster , by the Mayor and Bailiffs , because they could not swear , and two of the first had goods taken from them worth one pound ten shillings ; And thus may all see how they make havock of the Church . Tho. Pearson for tythe of the value of one pound thirteen shillings four pence , had taken from him a Cow worth four pounds . And again the said Tho. Pearson was summoned to the Court at Kendall by William Garnet , who brought with him a man for a witness , which swore that Tho. Pearson had four acres of Corn that year , but afterwards confessed in the open Court that he had sworn falsly , and that T. P. had but two acres and a half ; yet notwithstanding Iohn Archer , and Tho. Brathwaite , called Iustices , gave forth a Iudgement to distrain his goods upon this false evidence . Edw. Harrison for the value of one pound seventeen shillings , had taken from him a Horse and forniture worth six pounds ten shillings . Again the said Edward for tythe of the value of sixteen shillings , had taken from him a Horse worth foure pounds seven shillings . Cros●whaite Parish . Iohn Pearson for tythes of the value of two shillings , had goods taken from him worth nine shillings , for the priests use Tho. Pearson had goods taken from him by the same priest , worth seven shillings , and they did not tell him what they demanded , nor by what Authority they took his goods . VVill . Seaman summoned to a Court at Brumswell in Suffolk , and because he could not swear , had a Mare taken from him worth six pounds , by Order from Iohn Sayer Steward of the Court . Saul when he was a persecutor , never made such havock of the Churches as these priests do , nor any that we read of did ever so spoil the Saints Goods as these have done ; but this is a time in which the Lord is making them manifest unto all men , as the Scripture saith . The Priests and Teachers hath told people , and perswaded them , and made them believe they did not make it their end to teach for money and for tythes , for Easter-Reckonings and Midsummer-Dues ; but now they have shewed themselves to all sorts of people , and made manifest themselves to the whole Nation that that is their end , for preaching for tythes , for money , for Easter-reckonings , Midsummer-dues , and Offerings ; they have long laid covered under that covering , and covered themselves with that , in saying that that was not their end ; but now have they declared it in the Courts of the Nation in haling people before Magistrates , and summoning them up to their Courts a hundred or two hundred miles , and casting them into prison for tythes and maintenance till death ; yea , such as they do not preach to , and do no work for , which the like was never heard of amongst the false prophets and false apostles since the world began , driveing away poor mens Cattel , distraining their goods , taking away their Horses , and Oxen , and Plow-geere , with which they should plow the Land , and their Cows which should give their children milk , many having not a Cow left to give their poor children milk for sustenance ; and some have had their barns broken open , and have had their Corn thresht out , and made spoil on at the Priests pleasure ; and others that have had something to kill for the use of their Families , which the priests have taken away also at their pleasure , and made havock of ; and such as have a better Horse , Bullock or Cow then ordinary for their own use , such the priests makes choice of for their spoil , and take them from people whom they do no work for , at their pleasure , that the good savor is lost , and their profession and religion is become loath some to all the sober and moderate people that fears God ; that the Teachers of the Nation are become the greatest troublers of the people in the Courts of the Nation , and the greatest casters into prison in the Nation for their bellies and maintenance , such as they do no work for , or for speaking to them ; and there is but a few Magistrates in the Nation that truly fears God , that are brought to take notice of these things and doings ; the Lord open their eyes and understandings that they may see it , and themselves ; for the cry of the oppressed hath long been in our Land ; so unlike the Prophets , Christ , and the Apostles , have the Teachers of this Nation been , that they have turned against them that have been sound in the life of the Prophets , Christ , and the Apostles Doctrine . THE END . 
A86672	----	A true testimony of obedience to the heavenly call, for which I suffer the loss of all things, that I may be found in obedience to him who hath called me. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A86672 of text R202143 in the English Short Title Catalog (Thomason E731_13). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 14 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 4 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A86672 Wing H3239 Thomason E731_13 ESTC R202143 99862539 99862539 166858 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A86672) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 166858) Images scanned from microfilm: (Thomason Tracts ; 112:E731[13]) A true testimony of obedience to the heavenly call, for which I suffer the loss of all things, that I may be found in obedience to him who hath called me. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. 7, [1] p. s.n., [London : 1654] Signed at end: Richard Hubberthorn. Caption title. Imprint from Wing. Annotation on Thomason copy: "March. 10.". Reproduction of the original in the British Library. eng Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662 -- Early works to 1800. Obedience -- Religious aspects -- Christianity -- Early works to 1800. A86672 R202143 (Thomason E731_13). civilwar no A true testimony of obedience to the heavenly call,: for which I suffer the loss of all things, that I may be found in obedience to him who Hubberthorn, Richard 1654 2815 4 0 0 0 0 0 14 C The rate of 14 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the C category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2007-05 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2007-05 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2007-06 Jonathan Blaney Sampled and proofread 2007-06 Jonathan Blaney Text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion A True Testimony OF OBEDIENCE TO THE Heavenly Call , For which I suffer the loss of all things , that I may be found in obedience to him who hath called me . A Servant of the Lord , and a Prisoner for the Testimony of Jesus , whom he hath called by his grace to deny the world , and am made partaker of his sufferings , being in outward bonds ( by the deceit ) in West-Chester , and of his free-will hath given me not only to beleeve , but to suffer for his Name sake , who hath called me out of my own Country , and from my fathers house , and to go in obedience to his Command whithersoever he shall call me : while I was young I girded my self , and went whither I would , and then I yielded obedience to my own will and to the will of man , and was a man-pleaser , but the Will of God I knew not , neither was obedient to his Commands ; but when the Lord was pleased to reveal his Son in me , and make known his Will unto me , to enlighten me with his true Light which hath enlightened every one that cometh into the world , and by it let me see my self to be a strrnger to him , and knew him not , though I was grown mighty in the Egyptians wisdom , and was in love with the world , and in the favour of men , and in a profession and words of mans wisdom exceeded others , being in a form of godliness , but was ignorant of his Power and his Word ; but when his Power was made manifest , and his Word spoken within me , which Word was in my heart , and was as a fire or a hammer , and this Word being made manifest within me , and my Conscience being awakened by the light of God , which did convince me of sin , and did testifie against all my words and actions , and that just Judgments of God were revealed from Heaven against that nature I lived in , and the Trumpet of the Lord was sounded within me , and the Earth did tremble , and the vials of the wrath of the Almighty was poured down upon me , and the powers of the Earth were terribly shaken , the foundation of wisdom and earthly knowledg was shaken , and the Judgments of God were upon the outward man till my flesh was wasted off my bones , and the bones smote one against another , and I knew the Lord to be terrible , and his Word powerful , in burning up and hammering down the lustful nature I lived in , in pleasure and wantonness , in pride and fulness , which the Word of the Lord was declared against , and this Word I witness spoken from the Lords own Power within me , which made my flesh and bones to tremble exceedingly , and did cause pain in all my loyns , and paleness of face , my comliness was turned into corruption , and my joy into lamentation , and I was brought to the bed of sorrows , where I cryed out in the bitterness of my spirit , and I had no ease nor rest , day nor night , for the hearing of the ear which I did hear , and the sight of mine eyes which I did see ; I heard the sound of the Trumpet , the Alarum of War within me , terrors , wo , misery and destruction was upon me , in my trouble I cryed in the evening would God it were morning , and in the morning would God it were evening ; and the terrors of the Almighty being upon me , my Acquaintance and familiars stood afar off me , for they knew not the power of the Lord , nor the Judgments of my God , which I do witness to be revealed and made manifest in me ; and the Lord raised up in me a love to his Word , by which all the powers of the Earth did tremble , and the Earth it self was shaken by it , and by this Word was I called to go and declare it , as I had received it from the Lord ; to those who lived in the same heathenish nature , without the knowledge of God , and to declare the Judgments of God against sin and ungodliness , as they were made manifest in me : and by this Word was I called to forsake father and mother , lands and living to go in obedience to the Lord , who commanded me not to take thought what I should eat , or what I should drink , or wherewith I should be cloathed ; but cast my care upon him , and this I witness the Lords care , and those whom the Lord calls into his Work and who labor in his Vineyard need not to complain to the wold for want , and for yeilding obedience to the Lord and his Commands , and not giving obedience to the corrupt will of man : who commands me contrary to what the Lord hath commanded : do I suffer under the persecution of those who are set in the place of Rulers , and Magistrates professing themselves to be Ministers of the Law of England and to act Justice according to that Law , and do bear the names of Major Justices of peace , and Magistrates , and say they act according to the Law of the Nation and present Goverment , but they are seen to be in the generation of those who were ever persecutors of the righteous Seed , where ever it is brought forth : and the Servants of the Lord in all ages were ever persecuted by that generation , professing to be Ministers of Justice ; but that which is acted is cruelty persecution and Injustice , and the Righteous suffer , which the Law was not for ; but for the Lawless and disobedient , and was added because of transgression : The Righteous Law of God was made to be afflicted upon Transgressors and breakers of the Law ; but the unrighteous Law of men is afflicted upon the Righteous who walk blameless , and are proved no Transgressors : but in Obedience to the Lord , do witness a good conversation towards God and towards men , our consciences bearing us witness in the sight of God , and those who are Rulers of the City and rulers of the sinogogue under which I suffer imprisonment , Say , this is their law that if I will go home into my own country and to my fathers house , and stay there , and depart this City , I may be free upon this accompt , else I shall remain in prison , and this is contrary to the command of the Lord , for he hath commanded me out of my own country and from my fathers house , but my own country , dwelling and fathers house , the world knows not , that which I am called from they know the natural man knows that which is natural , and this is contrary to the law of the nation , for the law of the nation doth not confine any to stay at one place , nor to be kept from any one city , being proved no transgressor , nor breaker of the law , but I seek a countrey and a City whose builder and maker is God , and truly if I had been mindfull of the country I came forth ▪ and did love the pleasures , delights and flesh pots of Egyp● which I am called from I might have had opportunitie to have returned thither but in obedience to the Lord I had rather suffer affliction with the people of God , then enjoy the pleasures of Egypt , and you who say I have no lawfull calling , I doe witnesse the same Word of God the true prophets of the Lord was commanded by to declare against all sin and ungodlinesse , by the same Word doe I declare against it where I am commanded of the Lord and am called out of the same calling that they were , into the same work of the Lord which they were , and so I do witnesse the testimony of my bretheren the prophets that went before me , who hath left an example in record of suffering affliction and of patience , and we count them happie which endure . Elisha was a plough-man , and when the Word of the Lord came to him , he left the plough and obeyed the Word of the Lord , and his call was lawful . Amos was a herdman , and a gatherer of Sicamore fruit , and the Lord took him as he was following the flock , and the Lord said unto him , Go Prophecy unto my people Israel , and he obeyed the Word of the Lord and Prophesied in the Kings Chappel , and in the Kings Court , and his calling was lawful , and I do witness the same Call , who was a Husbandman and had a Vineyard and gathered fruit , till the Word of the Lord came and called me from it , and he turned my mind within , and enlightened my understanding , and opened the Creation to me , and let me see the Vineyard without was but a figure , and that I must come into his Vineyard to labor in his Work : and gathering fruit without was but a figure ; for there is fruit within to be gathered ; a possession without was but a figure , there was a Possession and an Inheritance to be enjoyed within , and that figures must pass away to come to the Everlasting Inheritance , which is within , which never fades away : out of time , into that which is Eternal : and for this cause , and by this Word did I forsake Father , and Mother , Lands , and Livings , House and Vineyard , to follow Jesus Christ and do what so ever he commands me , and this Call I witness to be Lawful , and the Word of the Lord is gone forth to command Sons and Daughters to Prophesie in his Name , and they have no other Call , and they go as they are commanded , as ever the true Prophets of the Lord did , if it be to the Kings Chappel , or to the Kings Pallace , or to the Synagogues , or into the Cities or the Markets to declare against sin and iniquity , and where they see the people given to Idolatry and prophaneness , their spirit being raised up by the power of the Lord , and by the Word of the Lord do they declare against it , and they have no other Call but the Word of the Lord , and they have a Cloud of Witnesses , for all the Prophets of the Lord spoke from this Word , and for speaking the Word of the Lord as they were commanded were persecuted , imprisoned , and put in dungeons , and were made a derision dayly to all that were about them , as Jeremiah was , and was smitten and put in the stocks , Jer. 20. 2. and Daniel was cast into the Lions den for declaring the Word of the Lord , Dan. 6. 16. Amos was commanded not to prophecy any more in the Kings Chappel , Amos 7. 13. and the Apostles were imprisoned , beaten , scourged and persecuted from City to City , and straitly commanded to speak no more in that Name ; and for declaring this Word of the Lord did all the Prophets , Apostles , and holy men of God suffer ; and the Word of the Lord is the same now , and the Persecutors the same ; and those who are sent of the Lord now , and called out of their own Country , as they were then , to declare his Word against your sin and ungodliness which you live in , Magistrates , Priests and people , you call them wanderers and vagrant persons , who have no lawful Calling : What would you say by him who said , The Foxes have holes , and the birds of the ayre have nests , but the Son of man hath no where to lay his head , Luke 9. 58. and the Jews sayd , This fellow we know not from whence he is , Ioh. 9. 29. you may say Paul was a wandring person , who had no certain dwelling place , 1 Cor. 4. 11. and those who wandered about in Sheep skins , and Goat skins , being afflicted and tormented , of whom the world was not worthy : they had tryals of cruel mockings , scourgings and Imprisonments : they were stoned , hewn asunder and dispightfully used , Heb. 11. 36. 37. and you shew your selves to be in the same generation , mocking , scourging those whom ye are not worthy to receive ▪ but all you dear ones , Servants of the living God , Blessed are you when men shall revile you and speak all manner of evil against you falsly for my sake , rejoyce and be exceeding glad , for great is your reward in Heaven ; for so persecuted they the Prophets that were before you , Mat. 5. 11. 12. you are in the same nature and generation of those who said unto Christ , depart out of our coasts , and saith Christ , As they have done unto me , so shall they do unto you : and now I witness the same things to be fulfilled : do not you say as they did , Depart out of our Citty , and teach in thy own Country , and the same generation called Paul a pestulous fellow , a mover of sedition : and the Apostles would turn the world up-side down , and the Jews said they had a Law , That if any confest that he was the Son of God he should dye : and they said , Christ was a Blasphemer ; and Christ was crucified and the Apostles persecuted by them , and all under pretence of Blasphemy , Heresie and Sedition : and as it was then , so it is now , for they who come to witness Jesus Christ come in the flesh , and both sons and daughters , who come to witness the promise of the Father fulfilled in them , as he hath said , I will pour Out my Spirit upon all flesh , and your sIns and your daughters shall prophecy ; and they who come to witness this fulfilled , you say they are Blasphemers , and not worthy to live in the Nation ; and all those who will not lye and swear , and use deceit , but yea and nay , such a one cannot have trading in your Markets ; for none can buy nor sell who hath not the mark of the Beast upon him ; but he who loveth and telleth a lye hath the most priviledg and advantage among you : O wicked and adulterous generat●on , thy wo and misery is coming upon thee , for the Lord is appearing , who is come and coming to cleanse the Land of evil doers . This I was moved to declare from the Spirit of my Father dwelling in me as a testimony of his eternal Love and Power made manifest in me ; and all who come to know the Power of God which is but one , do witness me ; and all who despise the Power of the Lord , this is for a testimony against them from the Lord by his servant , who is a Prisoner for the Truths sake , whose earthly name is Richard Hubberthorn . Chester , the 12 day of the 12 Month , called Februa . FINIS . 
A86671	----	A true separation between the power of the spirit, and the imitation of Antichrist. The difference between the pretious and the vile, between the saints and professors, between the power and the form, between the wise virgins who are so indeed, and them who have gotten the name, but want the power. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A86671 of text R207570 in the English Short Title Catalog (Thomason E809_16). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 23 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 5 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A86671 Wing H3238 Thomason E809_16 ESTC R207570 99866614 99866614 118891 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A86671) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 118891) Images scanned from microfilm: (Thomason Tracts ; 123:E809[16]) A true separation between the power of the spirit, and the imitation of Antichrist. The difference between the pretious and the vile, between the saints and professors, between the power and the form, between the wise virgins who are so indeed, and them who have gotten the name, but want the power. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. 8 p. s.n., [London : 1654] Caption title. Signed at end: Richard Hubberthorne. Imprint from Wing. Annotation on Thomason copy: "Septemb: 4. 1654". Reproduction of the original in the British Library. eng Antichrist -- Early works to 1800. Saints -- Early works to 1800. Religion -- Early works to 1800. A86671 R207570 (Thomason E809_16). civilwar no A true separation between the power of the spirit, and the imitation of Antichrist.: The difference between the pretious and the vile, betw Hubberthorn, Richard 1654 4683 4 0 0 0 0 0 9 B The rate of 9 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the B category of texts with fewer than 10 defects per 10,000 words. 2007-05 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2007-06 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2007-10 Emma (Leeson) Huber Sampled and proofread 2007-10 Emma (Leeson) Huber Text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion A true Separation between the power of of the Spirit , and the imitation of Antichrist . The difference between the pretious and the vile , between Saints and Professors , between the power and the form , between the wise virgins who are so indeed , and them who have gotten the name , but want the power . TO all you separated ones who profess a separation from the world , and to be come out of the worlds worship , & are gotten into the highest form and profession , but the earthly nature is yet standing in you , and therefore all your forms and religions which is set up in that nature , is ignorant of the living God , and of the pure religion which the servants of the Lord live in , who are unspotted with the world , who walk in the pure light of Christ which shines into the conscience , in which light you are all seen , and your profession is discovered to be but a form of words gathered up into your earthly wisdom and comprehension from the letter which they spoke forth who lived in the life ▪ and all you who are wandred from one mountain to another , and have forgotten your resting place , and are turned out from the light of Christ in the conscience , which should guide your minds and stay them upon God : And all you who are setled upon your lees , and have builded your nests on high , you are seen and made manifest in the light of Christ , to be out of the life of what you do profess : you who are building Tabernacles of the Saints words to shelter your selves in having their words in the form and in the letter which they spake from the life and power of the Spirit which was in them who spoke forth the Scriptures , and so you cover over your deceit with the words , and so live at ease and careless , being got up into a carnall security , and carnall peace setled in your carnall minds ; but now the day of God is dawning , and the light of Christ is risen , and hath shined into our harts , and in it we do see that your bed is too short and your covering is too narrow , and you must now all be turned to your own & out of the Scriptures which are theirs who live the life , and the life of the Scriptures we do witness to be fulfilled in us according to our measure , and so by the life you are made manifest , and to us clearly seen who walk in the light to be out of the gate of truth , and your prefession is seen to be but a form of words , and is dust , and dust is the Serpents meat , and by it the Serpents nature is fed in you , and the Serpents wisdome and the Serpents head must be bruised , which is yet whole in you who are righteous in your own eys ; but all your righteouiness is filthy and is abomination to the Lord , whose mind is turned from the light of Christ within you , into the polutions and into the liberty of the flesh , a ●nd so take liberty to walk after your own ungodly lusts , and the flesh is defiled , and your minds and consciences are defiled through the lusts of uncleannesse . Now as Concerning Virgins , I am moved and commanded of the Lord from the word of the Lord , which yet lieth upon me to you-wards who have taken upon you that name , but know not the Virgin state , to you I speak from the Lord , and to you I clear my conscience in the presence of the Lord , to you who have had a light shining within you , and have had the prophesies opened in your minds by the light , the light I own which did open the things of God , and gave you a sight of them , and in this light you have seen something of a fire which should should burn up the man of Sin , and all the lusts of the flesh , and all lusts of uncleannesse , but you did not abide in this light to have these things fulfilled in you ; but your minds turned from the light , and so the filthy lustfull nature got up again , and the earthly will got up again , and now the light is veiled in you , and now from the darke mind and earthly wisdome you talk of being passed through the fire , and through the death , but the fire of the Lord is yet to be revealed from heaven upon you , to burn up and consume your wisdom and knowledge in which you are exalted , and from which you speak high swelling words of vanity , beguiling unstable souls , drawing them into lightnesse and liberty , and a carnall joy , and so keeps them from the Crosse , and from obedience to the light of Christ in the conscience ; and by this light which you are disobedient unto , by it you are judged and condemned , and all your actions from that nature which is turned from the light in the conscience which did once let you see a sight of those things , and by the unquenchable fire must that nature that now ruleth in you suffer and be burned up , which is got up to boast of great things , promising to your selves and others liberty when as your selves are servants unto Sin , and bondslaves to Corruption . And all you who in the light have had openings and prophesies opened in your minds of the virgin-state and of purity , but not waiting in the light which let you see these things , which light is within , and shined in you for a season , & this estate you should have waited for to have been fulfilled within you ; but your minds going forth from the light , are turned into the imaginations and imitations , and now the adulterous mind is got up again , and ruluth over the pure , and you have not kept your virgin , and you are the foolish virgins , who have onely the name , but your light is put out , and you want oyl in your lampi , and the adulterous natur which is full of fornication now reigneth in you , and the Prophet is slain within you which prophesied of these things , and the light darkned which let you see such a condition there was to be enjoyed , and now the imitation is got up in the place where the light shined , and the Inchanter , and now by your inventions and imaginations form to your selves a virgin estate , contrary to the light of Christ , and contrary to the Spirit of God , onely from imitation in your wills , and so being sensuall separate your selves , and do act in your own wills , and now divide and separate between the husband and the wife , and he that is bound to a wife amongst you , seek , to be loose , and then you say you are separated from the beastly lust , and so form a separation which is but outward and carnal , but are full of lusts , uncleannesse in the heart , & there is no separation in you , for you are turned from the light of Christ , which should separate you from the lusts of the heart , for he that lusteth in the heart , hath committed adultery though he be not joyned to a woman : and here you are out of the Doctrine of Christ , and on of the light of Christ , which pu●ifieth the heart from all lusts , and conceivings of lust & begetting in the lust , and so you act in your will and inventions , making a separtion outwardly in the flesh , but the heart full of lusts and uncleannesse within . Now a Virgin is pure , and kept from all pollutions , and from all lusts of the flesh , and lusts of uncleanness , is not defiled nor polluted , but is kept pure in the light of Christ , and they are not defiled with women , and they are virgins who are redeemed from the earth , who follow the Lamb , whose garments are undefiled ; and the virgin state we witness who love the light of Christ which is pure , & doth keep our minds pure , & the pure water we do witness which the Scripture speaks of , by which we are washed from all filthiness of flesh and spirit , and the light of Christ we walk in , which is our guide and teacher , which will not suffer lusts to reign in the heart , nor any adultery to be committed , for in the light it is all judged and condemned , and all who love the light and walk in it , they are led out of all adultery and fornication , and they come to witnesse the virgin state . Now if a virgin marry she hath not sinned , but to you this is a mystery whose minds are without , turned from the light into a sensuall separation onely in the will , forbidding to marry , which is honorable in its place , and the bed undefiled , but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge . Heb. 7. 4. Now in the presence of the Lord I speak , and from the light of Christ , to you all who are marryed , and who are unmarryed , and to the light of Christ in you I speak ; and your minds being turned to it to be your teacher , loving it , and walking in it , it will teach you that have Wives , to be as though you had none , and to use the World as though you used it not , and them that buy , as though they possessed not , and will lead you into singleness of heart and mind , and out of carefulness : Now there is a difference between a Wife and a Virgin , but I speak not to feed any mans comprehension , but that every one may wait upon the Lord in the light of Christ for a cleer distinction and to come out of the destraction of your mindes and out of your Imitations to mind the light of Christ within you which will draw your minds within to be tanght of the Lord , and out of all the Lusts of the flesh , which all they live in who are turned from the light into the Imaginations and Imitations , and so are ignorant of the Scriptures and of the spirit which spoke them forth . Therefore I say unto you who through your vain Imaginations , separate between man and woman , and say that there should be no begetting nor bringing forth after the flesh , and so looks without being turned from the light into the Imaginations , and evill thoughts Judgeth , to you , I say , have you not read that he which made both Man and Woman at the beginning , made them male and female , and they were no more twain but one flesh , what therefore God hath joyned together let no man put a sunder : now to the light of Christ in all your Consciences , I speak , which lightshines in darknes but the darknes comprehends it not , but all who do love the light to be taught and guided by it will lead you out of your Comprehensions and out of your own wills from which your Imitations are formed , and will let you see that you are out of the Virgin estate for your Lamps are not trimed , neither are you obedient to the light in your Conscience which leads unto Christ and gives enterance to the bridegroom , but you whose light is gone out and have not been obedient to it , which hath shined within you and you are they who are slumbering and dreaming in your Notions , thoughts and Imaginations , you filthy dreamers who hath defiled the flesh , and the night is upon you and now is the Cry in the night , he that hath an Ear to hear let him hear , for now is the bridegroom coming , and they who wait in the light do hear the voice of Christ , and they come to witness his presence and do enter into the bride chamber , but you , whose minds is turned from the light you are shut out as the foolish Virgins though you would be owned by them who walk in the light , but can have no fellowship with you who hate the light and walk in darkness , for light hath no fellowship with darkness , and here you are shut out from the children of light and from Virgins , for Virgins are chast and sober minded , but you who have the name but not the power you are rude and wild and live in lightnes , and wantones , and folly which the saints was redeemed from , and so you are without in the world among the dogs and swine wallowing in the mire minding earthly things , and are enemies to the Crosse of Christ and live without the fear of God . And you who say you are redeemed from the Cross , and are come out of the fear into the love , silence flesh before the Lord for that speaks in you , which never knew the Cross of Christ , but is for destruction , and is to be condemned by Christ and the cross of Christ , when it coms to be known , is to the crucifying of that nature which speaks and acts in you , who lives without the fear of God , and out of the love of God you are ; for they who love God keep his Commandments : what love of God is there in you , that doe not the things which he commands you , nor doth not walk in obedience to the light of Christ in your consciences , which he hath enlightned you withall , which saith , Thou shalt not be proud ; now thou that livest in pride , what love hast thou to Christ : Christ saith swear not at all , now thou that swearest , breakest the commands of Christ , and hates the light of Christ in thee , which saith , Swear not at all , and so thou art out of the love of God , and out of the love of Christ : the light of Christ tels thee thou shouldst not lye ; now thou that dost lye loves not Christ , but art in the curse and in the flesh , for he who loveth and tels a lye , hath not part in the kingdom of God : Now if you love the light , it will not suffer thee to lust after earthly things , nor mind earthly things , nor love the world , for he who lusteth , and he who loves the world the love of the Father is not in him ; and loving the light , it will not suffer thee to fashion thy self according to this world , nor to respect persons , for he that respecteth persons , transgresseth the law of God , & disobeys the light in the conscience ; and he that takes the name of God in vain , transgresseth the law of God , and disobeys the light in the conscience , & doth not love God , for he that hates the light hates Christ , and this light is the condemnation of him who hates Christ ; and by this light you are made manifest to be out of the love of God which you talk of , and are Enemies to the cross of Christ . And you which have had experiences , and now talk of them , and your minds being turned from the light of Christ , which wrought experience , into the experience ; your experience is dead , and is become an Idol , that which wrought the experience , I own to be of God , but you not abiding in that which did wound , and torment , & plague the beastly nature in you , so that nature got up again , and the deadly wound of the Beast was not healed , and now the earthly wil and wisdom now stands in you , and so you are got from under the Judgments of God , and from under the Cross . And now you tell of what experiencies you have had , & what ye have passed through , but are old and dead , and cannot witness any present workings , and present power ; for that which now speaks in you of the experience is not that which wrought the experience , but that which now speaks , is that which was judged and tormented when the experience was wrought , and now the witness being slain which did once arise in you , now you make merry and rejoice over the witness , and now you are at ease , and take liberty in the flesh , and so feeds that which is for Judgment , and must now be judged by the Just , who have turned out of the way from the light of Christ in you , and so all that you have known or passed through is not accepted , for you must be brought back to the entrance to the light in your consciences , that in it you might see where you turned out of the way , and so lost your guide , and so are backsliders being turned back again into the earthly nature , and now by the light of Christ which your minds are gone out from , which light shines into our hearts , by it we see you walking in darkness , and from your earthly wisdom telling of old experiences which once in the light you saw ; but this light will now condemn you for turning from it , and being disobedient to it , for now is the true light arising and risen , by which the world shall be judged in righteousness , which will bring you under Judgment ; and a day of trouble shall come upon you , such as never was from the beginning of the world , wherein all you must be judged who live without the fear of God , and are got into a carnal rest and security , and into a fleshly liberty , and say whatsoever you do , it is not sin , and that you cannot see sin , and so your eye is blinded , and you hate the light of Christ in you , which should let you see your sins , and so you are yet in your sins , and cannot witness any redemption by Christ , nor through obedience in the Cross , and so whatsoever you do profess in words , or what experience soever you have known or passed through , all your profession I deny , and all your experiences who do not now experience the daily cross of Christ , nor do not walk answerable to the light in your consciences , for by it you must all be judged , and all your joy and carnall rejoycing in your fleshly liberty , shall be turned into sorrow and bitter lamentation , the Lord of Host hath spoken it , who will perform his word . The word of the Lord to all you who do wait for , and expect to see a Christ come without you , with a carnal eye ; and to see an outward power and outward signes and miracles to be wrought without you whereby the world shall be convinced , and gainsayers convinced , and those things you look for carnally to be fulfilled without you , and so are the adulterous generation , which seeks after a signe , and there shall be no signe given you but the signe of the Prophet Ionah ; and as Ionah was 3 days and 3 nights in the whales belly , so shall the son of man be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth . Now you whose winds are without , looking for outward things , your waiting is in vain , for you never came to see the things fulfilled , nor brought to pass which you wait for : Therefore to you I say , turn your minds within , to the light of Christ , to wait in it , that you may know the things fulfilled within you : for the comming of Christ is within , and that which convinceth of sin is within , the light of Christ , in the conscience , and this being hearkned unto and obeyed , it gives power against sin , and this power we witness made manifest within us , and this power we have received from Christ which doth convince the world of sin , and by this power the gainsayers are convinced , and this is the same power as ever was , and the same Christ as ever was ; and the same eternal words of God we do witness which was in the beginning , which word is Christ ; and we do speak it forth in his own power , as we have received it ; and this word of power we have , which makes the Devils to tremble , and makes the Heathens to rage , and by it marveilous works are wrought ; for now do the blind see , the deaf hear , and the lame walk ; and they who many years have walked in darkness and trouble of mind , and terrour of conscience , and under many infirmities , who have spent their time and money upon Physitians and Parish Priests , and have not been healed or cured , are now restored and healed freely , without money and without price ; and the Lepers are cured , and the Leprosie is taken away , and the poor receive the Gospel ▪ and this we witness to be fulfilled in us , and in the world where this Gospel is , and where it hath been preached ; and this is the everlasting Gospel which is now preached , which we are witnesses of , and Ministers of according to our measure ; and this Gospel is not the Letter , for many poor souls who have been many years in trouble , and found no peace nor satisfaction , have had the Letter and it hath administred no comfort unto them though they have applyed the promises to that which was wounded yet they have not been eased , but are still in trouble til Jesus Christs glad tidings did appear , who is the Gospel , and the glad tidings ; and they who witness him come and made manifest , they do witness a freedome and deliverance out of this condition , which they could not doe while their minds was without , looking for a Christ without , and for a power without ; and to find life from the Letter without , and this we witness to be but a dead Letter , and did give us no life at all , but we were kept in darkness and blindness while we called the Letter the light , and the Letter the word , and the letter the rule , but now the true light hath appeared , which lets us see that Christ is the light which lighteth every one that cometh into the world ; and in this light we see that God is the word and not the Letter , for the word was in the beginning , but the letter was not in the beginning , and in this light we see that the Letter without us is not the rule , but the spirit which gave it forth , and this spirit is within which is our rule , and brings us to walk according to the Letter which was spoken forth from the Spirit , which was their guide & rule which spake it forth , for the prophesie came not in old time by the will of man , but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the holy Ghost ; and the same speaks now in Sons and Daughters as they are moved , and do witnesse the Scriptures to be fulfilled in us , and Christ to be in us which you look for without you , and this power which doth convince of sin within , and the word is within in the heart ; by which word we are sanctified and made clean , and we do witness the Virgin state , and are Virgins , and do follow the Lamb , and are redeemed from the earth ; but you we deny to be Virgins , and whose minds are without , turned from the light of Christ which is within , and shines in the conscience , which should exercise your conscience , but your minds being without in the earth is defiled with the earth , and your experiences are defiled being adulterate from the Lord , and are no saints nor Virgins . This from the spirit of the Lord I was moved to declare and publish abroad in the world , that those who are wise in their own eyes in the earthly wisdome , professing high things as to be Virgins and Saints , may by the light of Christ in them , see themselves to be yet living in their own conceits , taking liberty in the flesh to walk in the lusts of it . And that all simple hearted ones may be turned to the light of Christ in them , to be taught by it , and may not be deceived by such who professe much in words , but hath brought forth no fruit to God , but seeks to draw out the mind of the simple ones , who seek after the truth into a liberty in the flesh ; and for your sake who are simple do I speak , to the light of Christ in you , which shall bear me witness before the Lord , and will convince all who have it . A servant of the Lord for your sakes , and in love to all your souls , desires that all your minds may be turned within to the true Teacher , which will lead into the feat of God giving heed unto it . RICHARD HVBBERTHORNE . FINIS . 
A86663	----	The cause of stumbling removed from all that will receive the truth; and from before the eyes of the wise men of London: in a treatise shewing the difference between the spirit of a man which is the candle of the Lord, and the light which hath enlightned every man that cometh into the world. Also shewing ... there is not diversity of lights and spirits, by which they are ministred ... Herein also is a false hosanna, and a false testimony reproved ... the name of him which hath so long travell'd to bring forth wind and confusion, is one known in the city of London by the name of Iohn Iackson ... that so ... understanding and knowledge of the truth may be increased, in those that follow on to know the Lord. Given forth from the Lords servant, Richard Hubberthorne. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A86663 of text R202544 in the English Short Title Catalog (Thomason E929_5). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 113 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 18 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A86663 Wing H3222 Thomason E929_5 ESTC R202544 99862789 99862789 114965 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A86663) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 114965) Images scanned from microfilm: (Thomason Tracts ; 139:E929[5]) The cause of stumbling removed from all that will receive the truth; and from before the eyes of the wise men of London: in a treatise shewing the difference between the spirit of a man which is the candle of the Lord, and the light which hath enlightned every man that cometh into the world. Also shewing ... there is not diversity of lights and spirits, by which they are ministred ... Herein also is a false hosanna, and a false testimony reproved ... the name of him which hath so long travell'd to bring forth wind and confusion, is one known in the city of London by the name of Iohn Iackson ... that so ... understanding and knowledge of the truth may be increased, in those that follow on to know the Lord. Given forth from the Lords servant, Richard Hubberthorne. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. Burrough, Edward, 1634-1662. [6], 29, [1] p. printed for Thomas Simmons at the Bull and Mouth neer Aldersgate, London : 1657. "To the reader" signed: E.B., i.e. Edward Burrough. Annotation on Thomason copy: "nou: 25". Reproduction of the original in the British Library. eng Jackson, John, fl. 1651-1657 -- Early works to 1800. Inner Light -- Early works to 1800. A86663 R202544 (Thomason E929_5). civilwar no The cause of stumbling removed from all that will receive the truth; and from before the eyes of the wise men of London:: in a treatise she Hubberthorn, Richard 1657 22356 161 0 0 0 0 0 72 D The rate of 72 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the D category of texts with between 35 and 100 defects per 10,000 words. 2007-05 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2007-06 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2008-05 John Latta Sampled and proofread 2008-05 John Latta Text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-09 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion THE CAUSE OF STUMBLING Removed from all that will receive the TRUTH ; and from before the Eyes of the Wise men of LONDON : In a Treatise shewing the difference between the spirit of a man which is the candle of the Lord , and the light which hath enlightned every man that cometh into the WORLD . Also shewing , that though there be diversity of Administrations , yet there is not diversity of Lights and Spirits , by which they are ministred : And shewing by clear testimony what the more sure Word of Prophesie is , which the Apostle Peter exhorts the people to take heed unto , untill the day did dawne , and the day-star arise in their hearts . Herein also is a false Hosanna , and a false testimony reproved ; and a false witness is rejected , and an untimely birth cast out , though for the time of Travel it might have been a monster , being above two yeers ; but in the end is brought forth for destruction ; the name of him which hath so long travell'd to bring forth wind and confusion , is one known in the City of London by the name of Iohn Iackson ; being by the truth of this following made manifest : That so by every motion of the Spirit of Truth , and every testimony given from it , Understanding and Knowledge of the Truth may be increased , in those that follow on to know the LORD . Given forth from the Lords servant , Richard Hubberthorne . For this end was I born , and for this end came I into the world , to bear witness unto the Truth , Joh. 18. 37. Every one that is of the Truth heareth my voyce . Spoylers shall come up out of the North , which shall spoil Babylon , Jer. 51. 48. London , Printed for Thomas Simmons at the Bull and Mouth neer Aldersgate , 1657. THE Light is broken forth as the morning , and the health of the Nations is in it , and is springing forth speedily , and the righteousness of the righteous Seed is going forth before them , and the glory of the Lord is revealed to his Seed , which now calleth , and the Lord doth answer , Here am I ; and the Lord hath made , and is making his Seed as a watered Garden , and like a spring of water , whose waters fail not ; and is raising up the foundations of many generations , that people may come to build again upon that ▪ Foundation which they have been driven from , especially by their Pastors : for saith the Lord , Many Pastors have destroyed my Vinyard , they have trodden my Portion under foot , and made my pleasant Portion a desolate Wildernesse , and have made Gods Heritage as a speckled Bird , the Birds round about are against her , and all the Beasts of the Field come to devour , Jer. 12. 9 , 10. And now is the Lord come forth against these devourers , even as a Lyon bereaved of her young ones : for the Lord will not suffer the spoyle of his Heritage no longer , but will dresse his Vinyard that it may bring forth fruit unto him : And now is the Lord casting out the blind Vatchmen , and the foolish Prophets which have followed their own spirit , and have seen nothing , and all such is the Lord casting out , and his everlasting fire is he kindling amongst them : And now I hear a cry of torment going through the Nation : Can any kindle a fire among Serpents , and they not be offended and shut their stings ? Can any touch the Vipers but they will smell with venom ? and when Scorpions are trodden upon , will they not shew forth their strength ? Can that nature suffer death patiently ? nay patience proceedeth from that Seed which slayeth the enmity , and destroyeth the man of sin ; and therefor● as we have one Seed to witnesse for , so there is one to witnesse against ; and as it is the work of the spirit of God to approve the things that are of God , so it is iis work also to reprove those things which is contrary to sound Doctrine , to the end that every one may know as well what to reject and deny as error , as what to own for truth and sound Doctrine ; therefore of necessity must every one be turned to the light which Christ hath enlightned them withall , that they may discern what they are to approve , and what they are to reprove ; and that judgement is true which stands in the light , and in the measure of the spirit of Truth . TO THE READER MEN of low degree are vanity , and men of high degree are a lye ; and the heart of man is desperately wicked and deceitful above all things . Hear this ye wise men and foolish ; the more ye strive against the Lord , the more is your wound made incurable ; and the higher you rise in envy , alwaies the deeper is your fall in confusion . And now Christian Reader , whose heart God hath opened to see and behold the things that be eternal , and can truly discern of different causes , and between the good and the evil , and between the light and the darknesse . This Book is sent forth in the pursute , and after a Book called , Hosanna to the Son of David , &c. by a namelesse Author , whose work indeed was hardly worthy of an honest mans Name , though very subtilly & craftily he prosecutes his purpose , & traverses his steps ful cunningly , as this worlds wisdom could guide him , in which wisdom he cannot know or receive the things of God ; & therefore it cannot be expected that the things of God should be received from that wisdom ; and though he hath confounded in his words his description of the Light of Christ , sometimes speaking well of it , and sometimes otherwise , and not knowing hardly whereof he hath affirmed ; his words are so counfounded and mixed in his corrupt reason , in giving forth his knowledge of the things of God , which he seems to be ignorant of , but onely as he hath the knowledge of them from the Letter , by which no man can come to the knowledge of God , nor of the things of his Kingdom without the revelation of the Spirit of Jesus , and the opperation of the same spirit : But friends , the testimony of God stands sure for ever , though men would confound it in their own reason : And this is the testimony , That Christ lighteth every man that cometh into the world , which light is sufficient to lead every man to God , or else to condemn every man from God ; and this testimony is true , notwithstanding all the opposition against it ; and it shall abide sure for ever , though men strive never so much in the gain-saying of it : And this is the testimony which we have born and shall bear to the end , and who believes it , and who believes it not , this is the hand of the Lord according to his pleasure , and to him we leave it , and so we do , and must clear our consciences from time to time , while the Lord gives us a being : And herein we are a good savour to God , and our reward is with him , whether Israel be gathered or no , Isa. 49. And also this namelesse Author , which is supposed to be one Iohn Iackson , known in this City , hath taken some seeming occasion against us by searching our Books , and ( as he saith ) hath found some contradictions in them , which may appeare to be so to his dark mind ; yet in the sight of the spirit of the Lord that is truth which he sees to be no other then error : However , this is sent forth for the true information of peoples minds , that they may know that truth is bold and confident , and that it is Armor which defendeth from all enemies , and giveth strength to answer the craftinesse of men . And this same Iohn Iackson hath shewed himself now to be one with the common Priests of the world , for as they have done , so hath he ; opposed the way and people of God , and with the very same Arguments , shewing that he is of the very same spirit with them , his discourse and arguments being of the same nature as theirs are ; yea , he hath shewed himself to be of the very same spirit with all the open prophane wretches which doth revile , and scorn , and abuse , in every town and countrey the Lords people ; and as they do so , so hath he written with subtil Arguments , to the very same end as they reproach and scorn , ( to wit ) in a derision , and despising the way and servants of the Lord ; so that his self-separation is now seen what it is , to be a very cheat and hypocrisie , who while he professeth a separation from the world , doth practice the very same wickednesse , and is not changed from them in nature , though he be in appearance : But what a poor work hath he brought forth in two years time ? which he saith his work hath been as Embres raked up in ashes , yet a work that gains no praise of God , nor very little of the praise of any man : It seems he hath hatched mischief upon his bed , and brought it forth in the morning : Who would have thought but a wise man in that time would have brought forth a larger peece , and more to purpose ▪ I am sure he might have made better use of his time in another exercise , then to have writ against the servants of the Lord : It had been more honest for him to have set his Pen to Paper , and studyed to have given his testimony against the pride , and drunkennesse , and oppression , and whoredoms , and wickednesse in this great City . I say , it had been more honest , and liker a Saint , to have sought the reforming of prophanenesse and wickednesse that greatly abounds in this City , then to have studyed two years to bring forth his invented stuffe against a harmlesse and innocent people , which he , nor any , can justly charge with evil , but as he hath digged deep by his imaginations , in recollecting a seeming-contradiction out of our writings , which is no contradiction , no more then Christs words are , who saith , Except ye eat my flesh , and drink my blood , ye have no life in you ; and yet in the same discourse saith , The flesh profits nothing : and for Isaiah to go with the word of the Lord to Hezekiah , to tell him he should dye and not live ; yet in the same instant of time , told him he should live and not dye : Would not Iohn Iackson have counted these contradictions ? But what he hath done in this , in sending forth a Book against the Quakers , he hath been so far from beating down sin , drunkards , and rude scorners , and abusive men that he hath fully strengthened their hands , and the wickedst people in this Nation are very glad of his work : He hath given them matter to oppose truth withall ; but his reward and theirs shall be both with one hand , and he shall drink his portion in the same Lake with such whose : hands he hath strengthened ; and let him know , and themall , God hath established us upon a sure Mountain , which the Gates of Hell and Death cannot prevail against . So his work i● counted of us , and cast by as our spoyled prey of Babylons treasure , only this is sent abroad after it , in the pursute of it , which is not done with multitudes of words of mans wisdom , but in the plain nakednesse of innocent truth , which is more strength then all his Arguments of guile , whereby he would deceive the people , but he can deceive none but such as are deceived already ; for all that are in the light , and in the truth , sees beyond all that he can say , and are established where his word ; can never reach them , to take away their peace , or disquiet them ; for as I said , we are established upon a sure foundation , and are tryed and proved , and cannot be blown away with any windy Doctrines of men , which begets into st●ffe , and not into true sincerity of heart ; but wo unto that man that works offence , and doth cast stumbling-blocks in the way of the simple : And though the Lords people be a suffering people , yet wo unto them that causeth them to suffer : And though he and some others in their spirits were elevated , thinking thereby to trample upon the innocent by that occasion happening concerning I. N. which was not suffered of the Lord to be as an occasion to destroy his people , but as an occasion to try them , and to prove them , and thereby are they tryed and proved , and the more setled rather then confounded ; and Iohn Iackson , and such like , may glory in such things for a moment because the appearance of it seems evil , yet the Lord will make their glorying void , for the Lord hath wayes enough to preserve his people , and this we have found in many needful times ; and as concerning this thing which was looked upon as a breach among us by many , yet it 's over , and truth stands a top of it , & the beauty of truth appears through it all , and truth is more lovely when it is proved and purged : What if the Lord suffer his to be lead and tempted for a season , let not the wicked boast of this ; for though the righteous fall , he shall rise again ; but the wicked fall into mischief : But yet we learn something by this , what a great use the devil hath made hereof , and how many Books and lying Scribbles hath been sent forth about it concerning us , which are all counted by us no better then the worst corrupted treasure that ever grew in Babylon ; and the best of it is but baubles to please vain minds , for men of sound understandings can take no pleasure therein . And we see how by all means the Devil and his people seeks occasion against the wayes and people of God , & how glad are the wicked when they get an occasion against the Lords people ? and how do they glory in it , and boast in it for a time , thinking that their hands are strengthened in a greater boldnesse to do mischief ? And Iohn Iackson is one of those that takes pleasure in these things , and he hath managed his businesse with a great deal of craft , but there is none that will praise him for it , except such whose wicked hands he strengthens , & such as he must have stumblings after the way of the Lord hath been so fully manifested , and they receive it not , and they must fall and be broken . And seeing that the wicked doth take occasion , and seeks occasion against the innocent , this will make many more watchful , and more circumspect , and more to walk in Gods wisdom , and to deny their own ways , least offences come by them : And let him put off his Armor , and lay down his Weapon , and I wish he may spend the next two years to come , better then he hath done these last ; and that the little fire in the Embres may kindle , to the burning of his corruptions , rather then into a blind zeal against the innocent people ; and what in this Book is written , is not to contend or strive for mastery , but to clear the truth , and to remove all cause of stumblings from before the face of all the upright in heart . A Friend to all people E. B. London , the third day of the nineth Month , 1657. The cause of stumbling removed , from all that will receive the truth , and from before the eyes of the wise men of LONDON . MAny untimely Births in ages past and present hath been brought forth , and the work of such hath alwayes been to destroy the Heir , the seed which the Lord hath blessed , that so the Inheritance might be theirs , & so would thrust themselves into the Kingdome ; but they know while the seed of the promise is alive , it keeps them out , and will not let them meddle with those things which they are not born unto : For they are sons of Bondage , and children of fals-hood , and must not be Heirs with the son of the free , &c. David out of whose root the righteous seed did arise , the bright and morning Star , he saw that seed in his dayes and was aware of them , and gave his testimony concerning them , saying , in heart ye work wickednesse , you weigh the violency of your hands in the earth , the wicked are estranged from the wombe , they go astray as soon as they be born , speaking lyes ; their Poyson is like the Poyson of a Serpent , they are like the deafe Adder that stoppeth her eare , Charming never so wisely : Break their teeth O God in their mouth , break out the teeth of the yong Lyons , O Lord let them melt away as waters , that run continualy , when he bendeth his bow to shoot his arrows ; l●t them be as cut in peices , as a Snaile which melteth ; let every one of them pass away like the untimely birth of a Woman , that they may not see the Sun , &c. Psalm . 58. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. And again he saith , behold he travelleth with iniquity , and hath conceived mischief and brought forth false-hood , Psalm . 7. 14. and so there was a traveling and labouring before they could get their iniquity brought forth ; as we have true declarations concerning the ages past , how many have travelled and brought forth wind and confusion ; so likewise in this age by experience can we give testimony of the like births which hath been brought forth to the slaughter amongst Babylons children , and here is one of the same birth born and brought forth in this City of LONDON , to which I shall speak some thing at present , although he conceale his name , yet the seed you shall know by its fruits ; it is one that would be reckoned amongst those children that in the Temple cried Hosanna to the Son of David Mat. 12. 15. But the seed which David called Lord is risen , and hath rebuked the false voice , for it is not every one that cryeth Lord , Lord , nor every one that cryeth Hosanna , that enters into the kingdome , but such as heareth the word of God and doth it . Now the testimony which this Author gives to that which after a long travel is come forth , is this , that it hath been in his brest two years and upwards , while it at length is come forth as an untimely birth , or as that which is born out of due time , labouring under the burden of being both unnecessary and unseasonable . Such a testimony as this seems to beget a wonder in the airy spirits of men , as if a Monster were to be seen ( what two years travel , and yet an untimely birth ! ) & many such false cries is in this City , which enters into the sensuall part of men , and begets into the affections ; but there is a seed risen which hath received from the father the spirit of Judgement , and understanding , and it doth not owne things according to the report , nor Judge of things according to their names in outward appearance , but hath a measuring line given unto it , and a true ballance whereby voices , ways , worships , and testimonyes is tried before they be approved , and therewith shall this spirit be tried , and voice which is come forth crying , Hosanna to the son of David , or a testimony to the Lords Christ ; which being truly weighted & searched , may prove a testimony against the Lords Christ , which hath enlightned every man that cometh into the world , in setting up mans spirit to be the light , instead of the Lords Christ : But first let us consider , the burden under which this man hath laboured , which is as he saith , that which is both unnecessary and unseasonable ; first unnecessary , because the same hath been before by better hands ; so it is not to be admired as a Monster , because it hath already been , and effected nothing : Secondly unseasonable , because those are already resolved ; that Jesus Christ is the true light which hath enlightned every man that cometh into the world , which he would resolve , that the spirit in every man is that light , and so according to this , every man must follow his own spirit , instead of following the light which Christ hath enlightned him withall : Now this burden thus considered , which is both unnecessary & unseasonable , haveing been in his brest above two years ; all that have received the spirit of Judgement , and knows the workings of the mysterie of iniquity , and can truly read the state of those which are filled with unrighteousnesse , knows that this birth is cursed before ever it came forth , and it had been better that it had never been born , nor brought forth into the world ; for it will be to the great agravation of his sorrow and misery which did conceive it , and so long travel in it , & at last brought it forth ; but among the untimely births shall we reckon it , which never saw the ●un , nor never received blessing from the Father , and happy shall he be that rewardeth thee as thou hast rewarded us ; and happy shall he be that takes and dasheth thy untimely birth against the stones , Psalm . 137. 8. 9. Against this birth hath the Lord ●●reched forth his everlasting arme to dash in peices , and this is not the first of Babylons children which in this age , and in this City hath been brought forth to the spoile , nor the first which this man hath brought forth , for he hath brought forth another without a name , which is both as unnecessary and as unseasonable as this : And so from experience he may say , that it is both unnecessary and unseasonable either to conceive , or bring forth any such thing against the seed which the Lord hath blessed ; for there was never any as yet which did strive against the Lord , or his annoynted ones which did prosper ; neither shall to the ends of the earth . So the burden of this man is searched , & Judged , and found not to be the burthen of the word of the Lord , though he thought it to be so , when in him he felt the fire of enmity , boyling and bubling up within him , as in his Epistle ; But we have found it to be such a burthen as the false ▪ Prophets in Jerusalem did see for the people , which was false burthens , and causes of banishment , Lam. 2. 14. But if the fire of the Lord had been kindled in him , it would have consumed this birth in the womb , before ever it had been brought forth . But the hour is comeing and now is , in which the Lord is fulfilling his promise according to the Scriptures , which saith , that he will make Jerusalem a burthensome stone for all people , all that burthen themselves with it shall be cut in peices , though all the people upon the earth be gathered together against it , Zac. 12. 3. And as this was spoken , so it is fulfilled , and fulfilling , that the testimony of God may be sealed up among his children : For now is the light risen with which the Lord Christ is gathering into the new Jerusalem , the City of the living God , and now hath many burthened themselves with it : And so burthened , that they cannot tel how to unburthen themselves of it : but to ease themselves of that burthen which is ready to presse them down , they break forth into revileing termes , and un●avory speeches , and false assertions against the light , and those that walk in it , and will deny both the light and children of light to be spiritual : Some calling it natural light , some calling it natural conscience , some created light , some the light of reason and understanding ; some old creation light , some a dim light , some the spirit of man , and so burthen themselves with it : & when they have both spoken and printed such things to ease them of their burthen , their burthen grows again ; and so they do not cease to vex and grieve the holy spirit of God from day to day , and when they have burthened themselves with the enmity against the light , and the works of righteousnesse , proceeding forth from it to the father , then they cry the burthen of the Lord ▪ the fire of the Lord within them : But saith the Lord to such , I will destroy that man and his house , and the burthen of the Lord shall ye mention no more , for every mans word shall be his burthen : for ye have perverted the words of the living God , of the Lord of Hosts our God , Ier. 23. 36. Theref●re is the measureing line gone forth to measure the false burthens , whereby they pervert the words of the living God , with their own words and Imaginations ; and unto those which ever were reproachers of the way and people of God , the Lord saith I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you , and a perpetual shame which shall not be forgotten ▪ Ier. 13. 40. So this is written that no man should any more burthen themselves with the burthensome stone , wereby they will be broken to peices if they fall upon it : But that every one may come to it , that with it they may see their false burthens , and the sin which doth so easiely beset them , and may cease grieving of the spirit of the Lord , while his spirit striveth with them ; & may come to know every man his own word which will become his burthen , when it returns again unto him : But the word of the Lord goeth forth & returns not empty , neither doth it burthen him which it goes forth from , when it returns again unto him : Although the true burthen of the word of the Lord be known in many before it go forth from them . Therefore then seeing that it is an untimely birth , and not that which is born of the sprit which is come forth from him to whom I now am to speak . Now least others being in the same blindnesse with him , think as he doth , that it is a true voice , or Hosana to the Son of David , or a true testimony to the Lords Christ , I shall weigh his testimony , seeing that the true Voice is gone forth both in the dayes of his flesh , and since , in which dayes he was truly declared to be the light of the world , and the true light which lightneth every one that cometh into the world , Ioh. 1. 9. Ioh. 8. Now seeing that this Author hath set up another thing to be the light which hath enlightned every man , then Christ , viz. the spirit of man ; I shall try this testimony according to the Scriptures , whether it be a testimony of the Lords Christ , or a testimony against him , in these things following , which are the Heads of his Doctrine conc●rning the Light . Concerning the LIGHT , what it is . It is the spirit of every man which is in him , and without which he cannot ●e a man , and is the Candle of the Lord , Prov. 20. 27. This spirit of a man is the Reason of a man , or the Vnderstanding of a man : What this Light doth , it gives him to know his Creator , and the end of his creation , ( viz. ) who made him , and why he was made , also how he should answer the end of him that made him ; and that God set up this Light in man to see by , both whom he is to serve , and how he is to serve him , together with the reason thereof , Because God made him . And with this Light God hath s●● up a Law , which Law is called Light , Prov. 6. 23. whereby the will and mind of his Creator is made known unto him , and he sufficiently qualified to see it ▪ understand it , &c. p. 7. It searcheth the inward parts of the Belly : At first it moved upward , and it could look God in the face and serve him : But now since the fall the Thief is got into this Candle , and hath dim'd the light ; and covered the aspiring ascendan● quality , and now it burn● downward , and discovers the things beneath , pag. 6. That it is all eye ; it sees all that is done , but doth nothing , it neither likes , nor dislikes ; approves , nor disproves , but as it is in conjunction with a Law , pag. 10. That it is the property of Light to make manifest , Eph. 5. 13. Pag. 29. That it is not in the power of the Light , as it is in every man , so much as to call any thing that is done either good , or ●vil , pag. 32. That the Light did drive Adam from the voice and presence of God , so far is the Light from leading up to God , that i● drives ●●e soul from God , and keeps him in the fall , pag. 53. That it doth not lead into all truth such as love it , and obey it , pag. 54. Not doth it reveal all truth to them that love it , and obey it : And that neither the Light , nor the Law doth convince of the sinne of unbelief . That the Lamp and the Light are convertable terms ; Thy word is as a Lamp , Psal. 119. 105. and that the Light and the Law is one , pag. 30. So by this , the Light , which is the spirit of man , or mans Reason ; and the Law , & the word which of that which is called a Testimony of the Lords Christ , we shall try it with the former testimony of the Lords Christ , as it is written in the Scriptures , which was given forth from those which were true witnesses . First , As in answer to these things , there is not one Testimony in the Scriptures , neither from Prophet nor Apostle , that ever said the Spirit of man , or mans reason or understanding was the Light which every one that cometh into the world is enlightned withall : But the testimony of truth concerning those which followed their own spirits , is this , The Lord sent his Prophet Ezekiel to cry wo unto the fooli●h Prophets that followed their own spirits , and had seen nothing , Ezek. 13. 3. Now they were not without the spirit of a man , for then they could not be a man , as he saith : now if they had the Spirit of man , and Reason , and if this was all eye , how was it that they saw nothing , when he saith , It sees all things ? so it is not a true testimony of the Light , nor of the Lords Christ : But the spirit of man is the Candle of the Lord , and the Lord having lighted it , then it searcheth the inward parts of the belly : And David , who knew what the spirit of man was , and what a Candle was without light , and what it was when it was lighted , he said , For thou wilt light my candle , the Lord my God will enlighten my darknesse , Psal. 1● . 28. So if the spirit of man be the Candle of the Lord , then whether doth not Christ enlighten every man which cometh into the world ? and whether is not that light Christ , seeing the spirit is but the Candle , and that it must be lighted ? Another testimony of his is this , That it is the property of Light to make manifest , Eph. 5. 13. but all things that are reproved are made manifest by the Light , for whatsoever doth make manifest is light , pag. 29. And again in pag. 3● . saith , That it is not in the power of the light , as it is in every man , so much as ●o call any thing which is done either good or ●vil . Answ. Whether of these two contraries must men believe , whether the light is able to make manifest whatsoever is reprovable ; or , that there is no● power in i● to call any thing good or evil ? But by this all men may see that this is not a true Testimony to the Lords Christ , nor to his Light , Never was there any such Doctrine preached by any that cryed Hosana to the Son of David , no● that did give testimony to the Lords Christ , That there is not power in the light to call any shing done good or evil . Now let all who have received the measuring-Line , and the equal Ballance , weigh and consider , seeing the Scripture saith , Whatsoever things is reprovable is made manifest by ●●e Light : Is evil deeds reprovable then ? they are ●ade manifest , then you see them to be evil deeds , lying to be an evil deed , swearing to be an evil deed , drunkennesse to be an evil deed , covetousnesse to be an evil deed , pride to be an evil deed , whoredom to be an evil deed , false accusing to be an evil deed , gain-saying the truth to be an evil deed , anger and wrath to be evil deeds , and these things are reprovable , and as the light doth make them manifest , so it reproves them , and such are convinced of sin because they believe not in Christ , so that unbelief is reprovable , and is made manifest by the Light . And whereas some say That the Light doth not reprove for the s●n of unbelief , that is false , for unbelief is reprovable , and whatsoever things are r●proveable is made manifest by the Light ▪ but he that doth evil hateth the light , and will not bring his deeds to the light , lest the light should reprove him , Ioh. 3. 20. And Iesus said unto certain Greeks and people which stood by him , which objected against his words , which was no Saints nor believers , While y●● have the Light , believe in the Light , that ye may be the children of Light , Ioh. 12. 36. Now he did not bid them believe in that which could not reprove unbelief ▪ I am come a light into the world , that whosoever believeth in me should not abide in darknesse . And Iesus cryed , and said , He that believeth on me , believeth on him that sent me . Also Ioh. 12. 44 , 46. This Light was not mans reason nor understanding , neither was it mans spirit that was the true Light which lighteneth every one that cometh into the world , Ioh. 1. 9. Again , another false testimony concerning the Light , is this , That the Light did drive Adam from the voice and presence of God ; and so far is the Light from leading up to God , that it drives the soul from God ▪ and keeps him in the fall , pag. 53. Answ. This Doctrine is to turn the truth of God into a lye , and to call light darknesse , and darknesse light , for there is no such testimony in the Scriptures that the Light did drive Adam from the voice and presence of God ; but Adam saith , I was afraid because I was naked , and I hid my self : It was because he had disobeyed Gods voyce , not because he was enlightned ; for the Scripture saith , It is your sins that hath s●parated you from God , it doth not say that it is the light which hath separated you from God , or driven you from him ; this may well be called a damnable Doctrine , or Doctrine of Devils : Hath God sent his Son ● Light into the world to drive the souls from God , and keep them in the fall . Now let all consider and judge that ever knew the Light , whether it be darknesse , or it be light which drives the soul from God , and keeps it in the fall . Now this Doctrine being compared with the Scriptures , is utterly false ; and there is few that professe godlinesse in this Nation that can bear it , or approve of it ; and for such as account themselves the highest profession , and above forms , under the Name of Seekers , to publish such a thing in print , here it appears that the best of men is but as a Briar , and the most upright is sharper then a Thorn-Hedge ; for the day of thy Watch-men , and thy Visitation cometh , now shall be their perplexity , Mi● . 7 4. Now here is a day for tryal , that they which can may try the spirits and doctrines whether they be of God . Now I shall lay it to that of God in all , is it not the work of the Devil to drive the soul from God , and to keep people in the fall ? If so , then it is not the work of the light which lighteneth every man that cometh into the world , is not this to call light darkness , to say that the light is so far from leading up to God , that it drives the soul from God , and keeps him in the Fall : What is that which leads man out of the fall , if the light keep man in it ? As this is contrary to Scripture ▪ and to truth , so it is contrary to his own words , as in pag. 7. there saying , That by the Light is the will and minde of the Creator made known unto man , and he sufficiently qualified to see it , and understand it . Answ. How can these two stand together , That the Light drives man from God , and keeps him in the fall ; and again , That it makes known the will and mind of the Creator unto him , and sufficiently qualifies him to see and understand it ? This cannot truly be called Hosana to the Son of David , no●A Testimony to the Lords Christ , but a Line of Confusion which is stretched out , wherein darknesse is come forth as a Cloud , and spreads it self over the earth , to darken peoples minds from the knowledge and understanding of truth , by words without knowledge ; but his folly shall proceed no further unreproved and made manifest . Another false Testimony concerning the light is this , That at first it moved upward , and man could look God in the face , and serve him ; but now since the fall the Thief is got into the Candle , and now the Spirit burns downward , and discovers the things beneath . Ans. What is the nature of the Light cha●ged ? or is the Spirit so changed , that before it ascended upward , and now downward ? We shall try this according to the Scripture , which saith , Who knoweth the Spirit of man that goeth upward , and the spirit of a Beast which goeth downward to the earth , Eccles. 3. 21. so then if it goes downward it is the spirit of a Beast , and not the spirit of a man : And here it is plainly evident that he knows not the spirit of a man from the spirit of a Beast ▪ so unfit to cry Hosana to the Son of David , or bear testimony to the Lords Christ . But as for the Light which hath enlightned man that cometh into the world , the fall did not change the quality of the light , for the light is the same ▪ as it was , but darknesse cannot comprehend ●t , neither knows how to give a true testimony of it , but confusedly speaks of two lights , the one springing up with man in his natural birth , sutable to his natural birth ; and another light sutable to the new birth that is born of the spirit . This is a testimony which is not to be found in Scripture , to be two Lights sutable to the two births , for he that is born of the flesh persecutes him that is born of the Spirit , and God hath put enmity between the two Seeds ; but to say that there is two lights sutable , and so the one natural , and the other spiritual ; the one of the earth , earthly , and the other of the Lord , from Heaven , as the two births are , this is not a testimony according to truth , for the light is but one , and the spirit of truth is but one ; and the same spirit which led the Saints which believed , into all truth , the same did convince the world of sin because they did not believe in Christ , Ioh. 16. ● . And that light which is the condemnation of the world , who love the darknesse rather then Christ , the same is the Saviour of all them that believe ; and one man loves it , and another hates it , yet it is the same light , Ioh. ● . 19 ▪ but the Scriptures bears no such testimony as that there is two lights in man , the one spiritual , and the other natural ; and for any man to say that the light of Christ is natural , is blasphemy against the Son of God , and is a sin not easily forgiven , and it is hard for such to find the place of repentance ; for every one that comes to repentance , must first come to the light which Christ hath enlightned them withall , and must know it to be spiritual , and confesse it so , and with this light come to discern the two births , the one from the other , and their several natures ; and how that the one birth is guided by the light , it being as the eye , giving them to see what to speak , before they speak , and so keeps them out of the worlds line , which is confusion ▪ and as a Teacher , giving them to understand what to do , before they do it , and so keeps them out of the condemnation , bringing their works before-hand to judgement ; and so their works are wrought in God , who answer the light which they be enlightened withall ; but the light is not sutable , no● according to that birth which is born after the flesh , but condemns that in all its wayes and actions , and is given to lead the creature out of that nature , and out of that birth , into the regeneration , to lead out of the deeds of darknesse , and out of the shadow of death , into the living inheritance , among those that are sanctified in Christ Jesus . Another testimony concerning the light , relating to the two Covenants is this , That as there was a new Covenant diverse from the former , the old , so there must of necessity be another light to accompany it , diverse from the former ; that is , as then mans spirit , so now the spirit of the Lord , &c. page 35. Answ. Ther● are diversities of gifts , but the same spirit ; and there are differences of Administrations , but the same Lord ; and there are diversities of opperations , but it is the same God which worketh all in all , 1 Cor. 12 ▪ 4 , 5 , 6. Now all people is to know that there was a ministration different from the administration of the Gospel , the new Covenant a different administration from the old ; but there is no necessity that it be ministred from another spirit , nor from another Lord , nor from another Light ; therefore to say , that because the Covenants or Admini●●ration● are diverse one from another , that therefore it must not be the same spirit , but the one by the spirit of man , the other the spirit of God , and that the light● is to be diverse the one from the other , this is a false Testimony ; ●o●●●● same spirit in which the Law was administred , ( the first Covenant ) ●● the same was the second administred , which doth make perfect according to the conscience . Now as all people is brought o●● of their o●● inventions and imaginations , and from following their own spirits , to own the light of Christ which hath enlightned them , they shall know the diversities of Administrations , and the diversity of opperations , and yet but one Light , and one Power , and one Spirit , and not as many lights as births , nor as many spirits as opperations , not every Administration to have a diverse light to accompany it ? for though there be that are called gods , whether in heaven , ●r in earth , as there be gods many , and lords many , but to us there is but one God the Father , of whom are all things , and we in him ; and one Lord Iesus Christ , by whom are all things , and we by him ; howbeit there is not in ●very man that knowledge , 1 Cor. 8. 5 , 6 , 7. and though there be in the world many lights , yet to us there is but one , him by whom all things was made , which doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world , that in him all men might believe ; and as every one believes in this light , they shall know that mans reason and understanding is not the light which every man is enlightened withall , for some are unreasonable men , and some are void of understanding : Neither is the spirit of man the light of the world , which doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world ; neither is any thing called the light of the world ( in the Scripture ) but Christ ; for saith Christ , I am come a light into the world , that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darknesse , Ioh. 12. 46. Then spake Iesus again unto them , saying , I am the light of the world ; ●● that followeth me shall not walk in darknesse , bu● shall have the light of life , Joh. 8. 12. and again , I am the light of the world , Joh ▪ 9. 5. And the Messenger which was sent before his face to prepare the way of the Lord , and to bear witnesse to the truth , said , In him was life , and the life was the light of men , and that was the true light which enlighteneth every man that cometh into the world , Ioh. 1. 4 , 9. And this is the light which in all ages , generations , and under all Administrations the Sain●s did bear their testimony in ; and this light did never change nor alter , though ages and generations have changed , and men have changed , and do change , and the minds of men change , and their wayes change , and their worships change , and forms and religions , which are not according to the light which Christ hath enlightned them withal , which changeth not , which as it is followed , will lead them out of those ways which do change ▪ which is not the living way , for the new and living way is one with the light which every man is enlightned withall , which is every mans way to the Father who follow it , and every mans condemnation who disobey it . Another testimony concerning the first man Adam in his first estate without sin , the sum of it is this , That as h● was at first , that is , at his beginning made s● , that is , without sin , for so was he made , Eccles. 7. 29. upright , without crookednesse , without invention , that this man , yea in his purest naturals , ●annot receive nor discern the things of the spirit of God ▪ until ●e i● born of the Spirit , or from above , according ▪ to Ioh. ●13 . & 8. 3 ▪ 6. 1 Cor. 2. 14 ▪ Answ. This Testimony is false , for the first Adam before the Fall , was the son of God , Luk. 3. 38. and did know and perceive Gods voice and power , and he knew Gods command , That he should not eat of the Tree of knowledge of good and evil , which if he did he should dye the death ; for he was in Gods Image , and the Lord spoke unto him , and he perceived it , and he had right to eat of the Tree of Life which was in the midst of the Garden ; and if Adam had continued in that state there needed no Law have been added because of transgression , neither had there needed any precept upon precept , nor line upon line , neither any Teacher nor Instructer of the ignorant , for there had no death passed over to seperate God from his creature which he had made in his own image , and given him power over all Creatures ; but to say the son of God , in the image of God , without sin , in uprightnesse and power , to say that he is sensual , having not the spirit ; or to say that he is the natural man that cannot receive nor discern the things of the spirit of God , this is greater blasphemy then that which the Apostle reproved , Rev. 2. 9. in those which said they were Iews , and were not , but were the Synagogue of Satan ; and all such whi●● brings forth such mysts of darknesse and and ignorance to blind the eye in people which should see the things of God in clearnesse , are to be reprovrd sharply , that they may be ashamed , and no more bring forth that which is both unnecessary and unseasonable , and contrary to truth , as Iohn Iackson hath done . And further he adds , That the natural man which Paul speaks of 1 Cor. 2. 14. and compares it with 1 Cor. 15. 44 , 45. is not to be taken for the carnal sinful man , but for a man in puris naturalibus , meerly natural , pag. 37. Let all therefore consider Pauls words , Which things also we speake , no● in the words which mans wisdom teacheth , but which the Holy Ghost teacheth , comparing spiritual things with spiritual : but the natural man receiveth not the things of the spirit of God , for they are foolishnesse unto him , neither can he know them , because they are spiritually discerned , 1 Cor. 2. 13 , 14 , But he that is spiritual judgeth all things , yet he himself is judged of no man , ver. 15. Now whether any man that hath the spirit of God can judge that this is not spoken of carnal & sinful men , or whether any by the spirit of God can judge that this was spoken of a man in the pure nature , without sin ; and let all who have the spirit of judgement judge whether Adam in the image of God without sin , did account the things of God as foolishness unto him ; and if any so judge , let them prove it , That in Adams innocency , without sin , the things of God were foolishness unto him ; or whether the Crosse of Christ which Paul preached was foolishness unto any but unto carnal and sinful men . So every man I exhort to come to that of God in you , to know the Salt in your selves to savor withall , that you may know that Doctrine that stands in the devised words of mans wisdom , and not in the Power of God , which would turn the Truth of God into a lye , and pervert the minds from the right understanding of the things of God : But the day is come which hath brought forth light , and knowledge , and understanding to the simple , whereby they see the deeps which are covered with darkness , and they come to see and comprehend mens wisdom , and their fountain what it brings forth , for how should that which is unclean bring forth that which is clean : So that now we do not only know the words of those which have set themselves against the truth , but the Spirit and power from whence they speak , and so in faithfulness bear our testimony against it , that the folly of those may be made manifest unto all men who wilfully oppose the truth , and their own selves through wilful blindness , and so count themselves unworthy of eternal life , exercising their strength , wisdom , and knowledge to shut up the kingdom of God against themselves , and others , labouring to keep all people from the light in the darkness , as is made manifest in this Generation : How many have set themselves to preach and print against the light which Christ the way to the Father hath enlightened every man that cometh into the world withal ? But now hath God the Father raised up his own seed according to his promise out of the North to spoyl Babylon , Jer. 51. 48. I have raised up one from the North , saith the Lord , and he shall come : from the rising of the Sun shall he call upon my name , and he shall come upon Princes as upon Morter , and as the potter treadeth clay . Isa. 41. 25. The promised seed of the Lord is come forth , and is spreading over the Nations as the morning over the mountains , and blessed are they that receive their testimony , for from the wrath of the Almighty shall they be delivered , their bread shall not fail them , and their waters shall be sure , and their fountain shall never be empty , but plentious Redemption shall they daily witness , and waters of life shall their thirst be satisfied with , and all the noise of the Bruits shall not hurt them , for the Lord is with them , therefore can they not be afraid , nor dismaid at that which cometh to pass upon the earth ; now because light is risen , therefore is the evil eyes offended , and have now turned their testimonies against the light , to make people believe that it doth the same works that darkness , sin , and Satan doth , which is to drive the soul from God , and keep it in the Fall , and that it is not able to shew the good or the evil of an action , to approve nor disapprove , which is true of the darkness , but not of the light ; For there is nothing that doth make manifest those things which are reproveable but the light , neither is there any thing which doth bring man from that estate where he is driven from God , and lead him out of the Fall but the light , and so it is time to come out from among all such , for all people that desire to know Gods ways , lest they be partakers of their plagues , and there be none to deliver , for many are hardening their hearts , in this day of Gods tender love and mercy , and so evil do they requite the Lord , that instead of turning at his reproofs , that they may find mercy , they are in their wisdom devising evil words , and reproachful terms against the light , by which the Lord doth reprove man for his iniquity , and are exercising all their abilities to make the light even as darkness , and would exclude the power of God from it : When as there is no man that doth receive power , nor wisdom from God , but in the light which Christ ha●h enlightened him withal , therefore is Christ now preached as he declared himself to be the light of the world , Ioh 8. and as his messenger declared him to have enlightened every man that cometh into the world , and this light is now preached and witnessed to be sufficient to lead unto God all that obey it , and to let them see that their works are wrought in God , Joh. 3. and is sufficient to be the condemnation of all the world that ha●● it , according to Joh. ● . 19. And for our thus bearing witness of the sufficiency of the light , many are ●isen up against us , even sl●nderous tongues , such as the poyson of Asps is under ; but the Lord hath delivered us from them , and will manifest his strength unto us , in bearing testimony to his light , and the power of it , against all the powers of darkness , and overcome them ; For God hath given his power to his own seed , the Children of light , and those that rise up against them , it is but that they may be broken to pieces , For whosoever falleth on ●his stone , they shall be broken to pieces , and on whomsoever it falls , it will grind them to pouder . Object . But some men say ; That the light is not sufficient to lead unto God those that obey and follow it ; And for a proof , saith , That Paul did not disobey , but follow the light which was in him : And yet saith , That he obtained mercy because he did it ignorantly , which if he had disobeyed the light , he had sinned against knowledge , so the light in him was either not sufficient to discover to him the error of his way , or at least it did suspend its act of enlightening him in the knowledge thereof ; it check'd him not , it convinc'd him not , &c. Answ. To say that Paul did not disobey , but follow the light within him , that is false ; For he followed his zeal in madness , and pers●cu●ing the Saints , and followed his thoughts which were fals● , thinking that he did God service , and thinking that he ought to do that which is contra●y to the light , and so kick'd against the pricks , instead of following th●t which did prick him ; and as for him in that condition , and the rest which persecuted Steven to death , though they did it ignorantly , yet it was not because they were not enlightened , nor because the light was not sufficient to have given them the knowledge of him whom they did persecute , but because they did resist that which was sufficient to have given them the knowledge . As Steven , a man ●ull of the holy Ghost , did bear witness , saying unto Saul , and the rest , Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in hearts and ears , ye do alwayes resist the holy Ghost , as your Fathers did , so do ye ; which of the Prophets have not your Fathers persecuted , and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the just One , of whom ye have been now the betrayers , and murtherers , who have received the Law by the disposition of Angels , and have not kept it : When they heard these things , they were cut to the heart . So here is little ground in those for any to say they follow the light within them , and to say that they was not enlightened , which had received the Law , which is light , by the disposition of Angels , and did not keep it . Here they disobeyed that which they had received , which was the light , and did alwayes resist the Holy Ghost which was able to have led them from the●r disobedience , and stiffneckedness , and if they did persecute to death for lack of knowledge , and so did it ignorantly , it was because they rejected knowledge , and forgot the law of their God which they had received , as the Priests did in Hosea 4 ▪ 6. and because they did forget the Lord , as those did in Jer. 18. so it was not because they were never convinc'd , nor never reproved , but because they would have none of his reproofs , for they would not walk in his wayes , neither were obedient to his law : But I say , Did not Israel know ? To Israel he saith ▪ All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people , Rom. 10. 21. Therefore let no more such clamorous speeches come forth , as to say such have obeyed , and followed the light within them ; which if they had , then when God had called they would have answered , and it could not have been said , they had been disobedient , which when Stephen told them of their resisting of the Holy Ghost , and their disobedience to the Law , which was light , his words did answer something of God within them , wh●n they were cut to the heart , and that which had disobeyed the Holy Ghost , and the Law which they had received , that did stone him to death , and th●rein they did kick against that which did prick them : But the light of Christ is sufficient to lead all unto God which do obey and follow it ; and there was never any in all Generations from Abel u●to this Generation , that ever in such ignorance , and wilful impudency , Preach and Print against the sufficiency of the light of Christ as in this age is brought forth ; For as others did reject the lesser , so these the greater ; others did disobey that which they had received from the disposition of Angels , and those , that which is given by the Son of God , who saith , I am the light of the world : He doth not say that the Spirit of man is the light of the World , nor that mans Reason is the light of the World , as some have said ; Neither did ever Christ say , That his Light was insufficient , but did bid those which were of the world , believe in the light , that they might be the Children of light , Joh. 12. 36. and did tell such which were of the world , that the kingdom of God was within them , So there was something in them which was of power ; but such a doctrine is now hated in the world , to preach any thing within man to be of power or ability to guide or lead man to God , or sufficient to believe in : But the Scripture saith , The word of Faith is in thy heart , ( which was the Word the Apostles preached ) to obey and to do it , and Faith comes by Hearing , and Hearing by the Word of God : But how shall they Hear without a Preacher ? But I say , Have they not all heard ? Yes verily , their ●ound went out into all the Earth , and their words unto the ends of the World , but they have not all obeyed . But again it is said in the false Hosanna , That the discovery of sin and iniquity may be where the sound of Christ , as a door , as the l●ght , as the way may not have been ; and for proof saith , it was so in the first man , that measure and degree of light which discovered sin to him , was the Law written in him . Answ. He who is the light of the world , in him was life , and this life was the light of man , and he is before all th●ngs , and by him all things consist ; and the first man Adam who was made a living soul , and wa● the son of God , the light that was in him , was the light of the son of God , while he remained in Gods Image , and when he was fallen from Gods Image into transgression , that which made manifest his transgression was the light which he was fallen from , and God did never write his law in mans heart but there was a measure of Christ : But men in ignorance and blindness pretend to be Ministers of distinctions between the Law and Christ , whenas they neither know what they say , nor whereof they affirm , nor seeing how it was added because of transgression , till the seed should come ordained by Angels in the hands of a Mediator , Gal. 3. 19. and as well ministred forth in the light of the Mediator ; For though there was , and is diversity of administrations , and of operations , yet the same Lord , and the same Light , that Light in which the Prophets saw Christ , and prophesied before-hand of the coming of the Just ; was the same in which the Apostles witnessed him come ; and the same light which lets men see their sins , is that which lets them see their Saviour , and leads them from their sins to Christ , as they are obedient to it . But to say there is the discovery of sin and iniquity where the sound of Christ as a door , the light the way hath not been , this remains to be proved , seeing the Apostle saith , That the sound is gone into all the Earth , and the words to the end of the world : Have they not all heard ? Yes verily : That which makes manifest is light ; Is there light making sin manifest , and is there nothing of Christ , seeing that his life is the light of men , and that men have no light but what proceeds from his life ? When was ever Christ and the light , which discovers sin , separated ? and where is that Scripture which saith , That the sound of Christ , as a light , hath never been heard where sin and iniquity is discovered ; but that which hath brought forth these things may well be called an untimely birth , which never saw the Son , nor never knew the light which Christ hath enlightened every man withal which cometh into the world , for a little of this fruit doth manifest that tree from whence it springs , and so we shall judge the tree by its fruits : Another fruit from this tree is to give his testimony of the Law of Faith , which is this : How far the Law of Faith may be said to be written upon every mans heart , is not given unto me to understand , only this glimpse I have of it , That it appears to have had an influence upon the heart of man , by those sacrifices which were offered up to God before the publication of the positive Law , wherein as well Cain as Abel offered sacrifices , Gen. 4. 4. Answ. This testimony doth not proc●ed from the Word of Faith in thy heart , for that would give an understanding how the Law of Faith is written in the hear● , as well as how the Law of Works is written , and this thy glimpse which thou saies thou sees from the proposing of the Promise , and the influence which thou sayes thou seest upon the heart of man by the Sacrifices of Cain , as well as Abel , offered unto God ; if this thy pretended light and glimpse , which is so far of Christ , be truly weighed and t●yed , it may prove but a vain vision , and a divination of thy own heart ; as all , who consider thy testimony of the law of Faith , in saying , that the discovery thereof ariseth from what is without ; and that it had never been known , nor never thought of , nor never would it , or could it rationally have come into the heart of man to have conceived such a thing , but from the Declaration of God in his promise : Here it doth appear Faith is a Mystery to thee , and thy eye have not seen it , nor the ear heard , neither hath it entered into thy heart to conceive Faith in the working and operation of it : And in that thou saiest well , that it was not given thee to understand how it is written upon every mans heart ; and thou had done well if thou had not stretched thy self beyond the line of thy knowledge and understanding , for thou thy self confessest that unto those first beleevers , Abel , Enoch , Noah , Abraham , Isaac , Jacob , Moses , David , Daniel , and the rest , there was communicated unto them a Spirit of Faith , and a Light sutable and proportionable , whereby they were enabled to behold Christ , who was the object of their Faith : Then if it did arise from the Spirit of Faith within them , and the light of Christ , who was the Author of their faith , it did not arise from the Declaration of God in the promise without , so that the mystery of faith which is held in a pure conscience is yet to be learned , which was witnessed amongst the Saints : So when thou writes again of the Law of Works , or the law of Faith , or the discovery which the Lord maketh to his creature , under the diversities of these administrations , keep back to the measure of the gift of God , and then will thy testimony be no larger than thy knowledge , which is a guilt hath spread over many in these dayes ; But this I say , Blessed is the man which doth not condemne himself in the thing which he alloweth , and which doth not destroy himself with the breath of his own mouth . But there is a Generation which their own breath as fire shall devour them . Again , concerning the Light which every man is enlightned withal , which is thy stumbling block , and rock of offence , as it is unto all the rest whose deeds are evil ; Thou saieth , God hath not annointed it to that work , nor laid the weight of eternal Salvation upon the shoulders thereof , it being too weak for that service . Answ. Him hath God annointed who is the Light of the world , and hath enlightened every man that cometh into the world , and there is no work of eternal Salvation wrought but in the light which every man is enlightened withal , and this light is of him and from him which bears the sins in his own body , and is not too weak for that service which the Father hath given him to do , and this light is Christ ( and whereas some say , Hath every man Christ ) every man hath Christ to save , or to condemne him , & Christ is as truly the condemnation of those whose deeds are evil , as he is the Saviour of them that believe ; and as those that believe in the light are already saved by Christ , so also those that believe not in his light which he hath enlightened them withal , are already condemned ; and so Christ is near unto every one , to answer every mans work according to the nature of it , whether he serve sin unto death , or be found in the obedience of truth unto eternal life ; for now is the day appeared to try every mans work of what sort it is ; and now is many offended because the light is broken forth , and their eye is evil , because the Lords is good . But wo unto the world because of offences ; if any have the spirit of a King , let them search out the cause of the offence which is now broken forth amongst the children of men , that the enmity which is in all sorts of people , of all professions , should rise up together , and become a body , the wicked joyning hand in hand , preaching , and printing , and crying for unity , which they are making up of enmity , that they may be strong against that which the Lord hath now brought forth in his light and power to be witnesses unto him in every place wheresoever he doth call them , witnessing forth his mercy and truth , by which iniquity is purged out ; and preaching the Gospel freely to every creature , whereby they may come to the knowledge of the truth , that they may be saved : But in the world it is so come to passe in these dayes , that he that can but give reviling terms and hard speeches against the light which Christ hath enlightned every man withall , calling it natural , or insufficient ; and if they do but revile those which they call Quakers , and put this in the beginning of his Book , then it passeth with toleration , and have as good approbation from the world as any of the Priests have for their Ministry : but if any man begin to speak of the light within , and the annointing within , and the word of faith in the heart , and of the mystery of faith in a pure conscience , and of the sprinkling of the heart from an evil conscience , and of believing in the light , as Christ said , such a one speaking of these things , and not directing his speech in open reproach against them called Quakers , the peoples hearts will be filled with jealousie , lest he be one . So that even the light is become a reproach unto them , and their dirision daily , but the Lords hand is turned against all such , and he is turning the wise men backward , and making their wisdom become foolishness ; For once there was a seeking after light in many , that it might rise , and open the things of God unto them , and reveal the mysteries of his life , whereby their souls might be satisfied ; and now when it is risen in many , and hath brought forth its powerful effects ; now the man of sin hath his time , and doth prevail in many to make them believe , that it is not the light which is able to save the souls of them which believe in it , and doth beget a spirit of jealousie in them which is stronger than death ; and begetteth a fear in them , which worketh torment : and many now doth fear , and are jealous , that that light is not the Christ which hath enlightened them , and every one which cometh into the world , and this is the work of Satan in the hearts of the disobedient , which as every one comes to obey his light , and to answer his perfect love to them which is manifest in the light , that fear will be cast out , and life will be given to that witness of God which once did breath after his life , without which the soul cannot rest , nor be satisfied ; and this shall many come to witness , as the man of sin comes to be revealed , which letteth , and will let , until he be taken out of the way ; and then shall they see at what they have stumbled , and by what they have been overcome , and then they will know that it had been good for them if they had walked i● the light of the Lord , insteed of setting themselves against it , and as the light it self by such before mentioned is denyed , so the testimony which the children of light give of it , is also despised , and contended against , as if it were not to be owned for a Doctrine of truth , which doctrine of truth hath been laid often before people , and is yet once more , that they may consider , prove , and try , and so believe , and so be able to give a testimony from the witness of God in themselves . First , We say that Christ is the light of the world , according to his own words , Ioh. 8. 12. And again we say , That he hath enlightned every man that cometh into the world , according to his words who was sent a Messenger before his face to bear witnesse to the truth , and his witnesse is true , Ioh. 2. 9. And as Christ hath enlightned every man that cometh into the world , so we say to every man , warning both small and great to believe in the light , that they may be the children of light , which was Christs Doctrine to the world , Ioh. 12. 36. And now what Christ doth and effecteth by it in those that believe in his light , and followeth it , which effects and opperations by the world is denyed , and by us is affirmed : some of the effects of it I shall mention , which is opposed : as first , That it will not let those that are guided by it take Gods Name in vain , but will draw th●m out of the Worships of the world , and keep them in the fear of God , and to stand still in it is the first step to peace . That it discovers things that are contrary to it . That it is their Teacher that love it , and their condemnation that hate it , according to Christs words , Ioh. 3. 19. That waiting in it will guide them to God , and shew them the way to the Father , as Christ saith , No man cometh unto the Father but by me , Ioh. 14. 6. and no man cometh unto the Father by Christ but as they are led and guided by his light within them . That it op●ns all the Scriptures , and leads man out of the fall , up to God ; for him hath the Fath●r given to be a Leader and Commander unto the people , and he leadeth them by his light . Another effect is , That it convinceth of all ungodlinesse and worldly lusts , and is a Teacher and Director , teaching and directing in righteousnesse , purity , and holinesse , &c. And that the light is but one in him that loves it , and in him that hates it , leading the one to God , from whence it comes , to receive eternal life , and condemning the other from God because he obeyeth not the truth , that he might be saved . And this is the testimony of truth which is now held forth , never to be denyed : But who hath believed our report ? even they to whom the Arm of the Lord is revealed : And this is the way by which people may come to know the truth of this testimony , by obeying the light which Christ hath enlightned them withall , thereby shall they know whether this Doctrine be of God , or whether we speak of ourselves , and whether all those effects is not brought forth by the working of Christs light in them ; and then they shall not believe onely because of our words , nor be envious against it because of others words , but will finde the testimony in themselves , which is according to the record which God hath given of his Son , and according to the testimony which we have given of the light ; and he that believeth shall be established . Now that which opposeth this , is that which beareth a testimony contrary to Christ , who saith , For this end was I born , and for this end came I into the world , to bear witnesse unto the truth ; and every one that is of the truth heareth my voice , Ioh. 18. 37. And this was his witnesse , and his Messengers witnesse , That he was the Light of the world , and , That this is the true light which hath enlightned every man that cometh into the world , Ioh. 8. 12. Ioh. 1. 9. And this contrary testimony which is brought forth is this , That it is the spirit of man that is the light which hath enlightned every man ; and so going about to prove the spirit of man not to be sufficient , under this would destroy the sufficiency of the light of Christ . But the Scriptures never did give testimony that the spirit of man was the light of the world ; neither did we ever say that this light was the spirit of every man , nor a natural light : And therefore this man which hath writ a Volume in proving a natural light , or mans reason insufficient , let all people take notice what he contradicts , or disproves by it ; he doth not by it contradict nor disprove any thing that we have said , for we never did affirm that mans reason was the light ; but he hath laboured to contradict himself : He hath set up an Image , and then glories in breaking of it down , & from our words draws a false inference , and glories in confounding it : And this is the general course of our opposers , to raise a false proposition or conclusion from their own imaginations , and then contradict it , and then cry , The Quakers contradicted , or confuted , and their Doctrine disproved , and they irrecoverably slain ; and many such cryes is gone forth in the world among people , like the noise of many waters . To which I answer , Nay , they are not of such a birth that they are so easily slain , nor of such a Doctrine that they are so easily disproved ; for the immortal birth is brought forth , unto which God hath given wisdom and understanding to be as wise as Serpents , and in their innocency is their wisdom brought forth , which Seed inheriteth the strength of the Almighty : so though they be permitted to fight and contend against the truth , yet to prevail is not given them : Therefore in vain is the Net spread in the sight of any Bird , and in vain do they exercise their strength against the Lords annointed ; for this which they have brought forth is but as setting of bryars and thorns in battel against the Lord or as if the untimely birth should strive against that birth which is brought forth without deformity , to slay it , as those in former ages , who were wiser in their generation then the children of light , sought to slay the Heir , that the Inheritance might be theirs . In like manner do men now also rise up against the life of the same Seed which is risen in the hearts of the children of men , to slay it , that so they may professe the Scriptures in their high swelling words of vanity , having mens persons in admiration because of advantage : for if this Seed doth live which the Lord hath not onely brought to the birth , but also brought forth , it will stop that profession which stands in the hypocrisie , and will quench that violence of fire in which that zeal flames out , which is not according to knowledge : But the Seed is risen which inherits the strength of the Almighty , which can bear all things , and suffer all things , and will come to reign over all gainsayers ; for all the high swelling words of vanity shall come to nought , and truth shall be exalted over all , in the power of the eternal Spirit , when blacknesse of darkness will cover all those spirits , which have spent their strength against the appearance and manifestation of truth ; and those that now boast themselves in their presumption against the servants of the Lord , and testimony of truth , Shall come to be a servant of servants , even to the least in the kingdom of God ▪ before they have right unto that which they now profess , or before they be counted worthy to cry Hosanna to the son of David , or to bear a testimony to the Lords Christ ; For he will have none such to be his witnesses , as deny his light which he hath enlightened every man withal : For the true witnesses bear this testimony of Christ , That he is the true light , and is the light of the world , which hath enlightened every man that cometh into the world , that every man through him might bel●eve , and every one in whom this witnesse is found true , is justified of God . Another Accusation is against Richard Farnsworth , for saying , That Christ did break the Passeover with his Disciples , and herein he is Charged to want Light ; or , that the light in him was not sufficient in him to open this , and that he did not discern between the Passeover , and the Supper of the Lord : And likewise is Accused , for calling that a Shadow , which the Scripture saith was but to shew the Lords death till he came . Answ. To call the Supper the Passeover , doth not demonstrate that he wants light , neither that the light is insufficient , for the Disciples called it the Passeover which they prepared for him : and Christ called it the Passeover which he eat with his Disciples , Mark . 14. 12. 14. Matth. 26. 20 , 21 , 22. and that which they eat he broke : but it doth not say , That he broke his bones , nor eat his bones ; yet he eat the Passeover with his Disciples . And whereas he is accused for calling that a shadow , and many now , in imitation , take bread and wine , and call that the Lords Supper , opposing those that are come to the substance , and witness the substance , eating that which is meat indeed , and drinking that which is drink indeed ; But this man which doth oppose Richard Farnsworth , and others , in these things , he ha●h the least reason to mention this Supper , or the breaking of Bread of any , for others do call their breaking of bread , and drinking of wine , the Lords Supper , because they practise it : But this man doth neither practise that as the Lords Supper , nor witness the substance , so that this is the greatest hypocrisie , To contend about that , or to accuse others , in denying of that which he himself denyes the practise of : So that this accusers doctrine and accusations wants both light and reason . Another Accusation is against these two Writers , Richard Farnsworth , and Francis Howgill , as if they should be in an unreconciled Difference ; because the one hath affirmed , That the light of Christ is sufficient to open all the Scriptures : And the other saith , Thou that tells of opening Chapters or Verses by meanings , thou never heard a word of Christ . Answ. These are not Differences ; for the light of Christ and mans meanings are contrary : So for the one to say , the light doth open ; and the other to say , mans meanings doth not open , this is not contrary : So the confusion is turned again to the Accuser , and doth not belong to these two Writers : So the ignorance of this Accuser is to be taken notice of , which would make people believe things that is not : For if he write his Book for those that can neither read , see , nor hear , his labour is in vain : and if he write it to those that can read , see , hear , and understand , they will account it foolishness , especially in this day , when the light of life is broken forth among the children of men , to give them an understanding according to truth , for in this day , he that keepeth silence is reputed wise ; and better is he that keepeth silence , than he that speaks , unless the spirit of the Lord give him utterance . Another Accusation is against W. D. he speaking so such a one as is guided by the Lamb , &c. saying , The light in thy Conscience , the righteous law , cryes through thy earthly heart , and brings it into judgement , &c. And then speaking of the parable of the little leaven hid in three measures of me●l , that it changeth the whole lump into the nature of it self ▪ so the little light that shines in thy dark heart , is the powerful Word of Faith , and that the light is the sure word of Prophesie , whereunto ye do well to take heed until the day dawn , and the day-star arise in your hearts : And for these things he is Accused . Answ. Those that are guided by the Lamb , do witness that the ●ight , the righteous law , cryes through the earthly heart , and brings it into judgement , and will not accuse one for saying so ; and as for speaking of the little light , as Christ spoke of the little leaven ; Was it no offence in the dayes of the son of man to preach that the kingdom of heaven was like unto a grain of mustard seed , or like unto a little leaven ? And is it an offence now ●o preach the word of Faith to be as a little light , or to preach the annointing to be as a little light , in those in whom the light is little , doth this also offend you ? What then if we should say , That Christ is the light of life , the son of righteousness , and the glory and express figure of the Fathers substance in some , and but as a little light , o● day-star in others , or in others as a light before the day-star arise in their hearts : Is not the light great in some , and little in others ? And is not Christ the same ? May that only be called Christ which takes away the sins ? And may not that also be called Christ which pierceth through the soul , and revealeth the thoughts of many hearts , Luke ▪ 2. 35. May he only be called Christ unto whom the Father hath given the Heathen for his inheritance , and the utmost parts of the earth for his possession , who reigneth , and hath all his enemies under his feet , and is not he the same as he is descended into the lower parts of the earth , and which took upon him the form of a servant ? So therefore that none may err in their judgments concerning the testimony which is given of Christ , and of his light , his light is more or less according to his manifestation in every one , there being given to every one a manifestation of the spirit to profit withal , and every one is to be turned to the measure of their manifestation , to know and witness Christ in it , though in many it be but as a little light , yet they are to be turned unto it , while it is so , which as it doth encrease , and is enlarged , it may be called , or declared under another name than little , as the kingdom of Heaven is not alwayes like unto a grain of mustard-seed , nor as a little leaven , but comes to rule in the children of men : And whereas the Accuser replieth against the light , and against Christ to be the word of Faith ; saying , Christ is called the Word of God , Rev. 19. 13. but not the Word of Faith ; and yet saith in page 45. That Christ is the Author and finisher of Faith . Answ. If Christ be the Word of God , and faith come by Hearing , and Hearing by the Word of God , then how is it that he is not the word of Faith , being that word by which Faith comes when it is heard , and he being the Author of it ? May he not then as well be called the Word of it , as the Author of it , seeing he is the Word by which it comes : but that all may understand what this word of faith was which the Apostle preached , This was Christ , Rom. 10. and they preached no other Word to be the Word of faith but Christ , That whosoever believed on him should not be ashamed : So that if the ignorance of Christ , and of the Apostles words , were blotted out of the hearts of our Accusers , they would be silent , and the daylie reproach would cease . And whereas it is affirmed by us , That the Light , or a measure of Christ within , is a sure Word of Prophesie , or a more sure Word of Prophesie , as Peter saith , 2 Pe●. 1. 19. And whereas many are offended at this , and labours to make people believe that this is the Writings of the Prophets which is the more sure Word of Prophesie the Apostle speaks of , because he saith , Knowing this first , that no Prophesie of the Scriptures is of any private interpretation ; for the Prophesie came not in old time by the will of man , but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by she Holy Ghost , &c. Ans. Now I shall make it appear that it was not the Writings of the Prophets which was that more sure Word ; as first , concerning that , here is one thing held out to be a sure Word , and another thing held out to be more sure , as unto those to whom it was spoken : And as concerning the first : That which is held out to be a sure Word , is that which ●ame from the Father , the voice which cam● from the excellent Glory , saying , This is my beloved Son , in whom I am w●ll pleased ; and this voice which came from Heaven the Disciples heard when they were with him in the holy Mount . This was a sure Word when it was spoken , and when it was written it was a sure Testimony , as sure as any of the Prophets Writings ; for the Prophets did see that he was to come , and that he that was to come was the well-b●loved Son of the Father , and they wrote this down , and it was a sure testimony of Christ ; and Peter , and the rest saw that he was come , and did hear the voice from the excellent Glory proclaiming him to be the Son of God , and when they had seen it ▪ they wrote it down ; and this was as sure a testimony , yea a surer then the Prophets , and that which the Apostles were eye-witnesses of , and did write down for truth , was as much ●● be taken heed unto as that which the Prophets declared ; and this will all men of understanding judge , that the Apostle Peter did not direct the people to the Prophets words , to take heed to them because they were more sure th●n his own , and more to be believed : But although the Apostles words and writings was confirmed with more power and witnesse of the Spirit then the Prophets , and both true , yet the Apostles Ministry unto those which did not see those things which the Prophets saw , muchlesse those things the Apostles saw , no , not so far as the dawning of the day , nor to the day-star risen in their hearts , therefore Peter dividing the word of God aright , saith unto them , We have a more sure Word of Prophesie , whereunto ye do well that ye take heed , as unto a light that shineth in a dark place , until the day dawn , and the day-star aris● in your hearts , 2 Pet. 1. 19. It was more sure for them to ●ake heed unto that which was as a light shining in a dark place , till the day-star did arise , and the day dawn in their hearts , then the declarations from others without them , decla●rd in words & writings ; as thus for example , by experience ; to such I shall direct my speech , who canno● witnesse the day dawned , nor the day-star risen in their hearts , nor hath heard the voice from the excellent Glory , to such I say , That which I have seen and heard , the visions , power , and glory , wherein I am an eye witnesse of his glory , and of his appearance , this I may declare and write unto you , and you may believe it , But to such I say , It is more sure for them to take heed to the light that shines in the dark place , till they come to witnesse in ●hemselves the day dawned , and day-star risen , and the Son of God made manifest in them , then to take heed to the words which I have declared , though it be a true testimony ; for the Apostle did not write to himself , nor say that it was more sure unto him , bu● unto them unto whom he wrote his Epistle ; for unto him no Word of Prophesie was more sure then that which he had seen and heard when he was with Christ in the holy Mount . So this may inform your understandings who have more desir● to know the truth , then to oppose it , and may put to silence the vain disputings by men of corrupt minds , who are destitute of the truth , alwayes corrupting the words of truth to oppose the life of it , as many such there are in these dayes , which the Lord hath , and will rebuke sharply , that they may be asham●d ; but all who are led and guided by the light of Christ shall know the annointing in them , and the word of faith , yea the Son of God : He that can receive it without offenc● , let him . 5. Obj. But he that hath opposed us saith in pag. 25. of his Book , in the second part , That the dawning of the day is rather an evening then a morning . Ans. Now let all which have but known a day and a night in the Creation , judge , whether the evening or the morning be the dawnings of the day ; or , whether the day-star be a fore-runner of the day , or of the night ; then it will not be incredible which I have said before , that he calls darknesse light , and light darknesse ; but in such things our opposers will not receive a good report from those which can give true judgement , and to such it is left to judge of those things . Obj. Again he saith in pag. 35. That the spirit of truth was not a Comforter to the Apostles , nor a reprover to the world before Christ was ascended ; and yet himself , to contradict himself , saith , that he was in them before , and dwelt in them , the same spirit , but not the same measure . Ans. Here is Babylon at the height , fit to be pul'd down , but needs little answering , seeing that i● answereth it self , and for such reasons as these he might well conceal his name : And if he could have put this off by hiding his Name , for an Hosanna to the Son of David , or A Testimony to the Lords Christ , then he might well have boasted , and have gloryed in his shame , as if there had been no spirit of discerning in those he calls Quakers , nor others ; but the eye of truth is not yet so blinde , but we know an evening from a morning , a night from a day , and a lye from truth ; and we know also that the disciples had a measure of the spirit of truth while he was with them upon earth , and this spirit did both comfort them , and did carry them on in obedience to his will , and in the power of this spirit went forth into the world , and reproved the world of sin because they did not believe in Christ , and the devils was subject unto them by the spirit of truth that was in them , before Christ ascended , and to this there is a Cloud of witnesses : So that this from him , filling his Book with such things as these , is as if a man should fill a Ba●n with Chaff instead of Corn , and deceive others with selling i● for Corn . Another contradiction of the same nature , is this , That the manifestation of the Spirit is given ( to no man for himself , but ) to every man to profit withall , to edi●ie , and build up , and do service in the body , as an hand , foot , or eye , or some other member of the body , &c. and to contradict this , in the next words saith , Not that the spirit , or the manifestation of the spirit , is given to every man , ( i. e. ) to every individual person , forasmuch as some men are sensual , having not the spirit , therefore no manifestation thereof , pag. 17. Ans. This is like the former , and so to be cast out with it , for his distinction of words ▪ between every man , and every individual person , wil not cover him ; for where the Scripture saith every man without distinction , that is , every individual man and woman : And the Apostle saith , But the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withall , he doth not say , not to every individual person : And this also I say , and affirm , That to every man is given a manifestation of the spirit to profit withall , and he that profits with it , by it shall be justified ; and he that doth not profit with it , by it shall be condemned , because he is an unprofitable servant , and this truth shall stand when all confusion shall have an end , yet some are sensual , having not the spirit . Obj. Again , in despising the testimony from the measure of the gift of the spirit of God , when they have spoken according to the measure , & could not boast themselves above their measure , but in their measure witnessing the work of God as it was fulfilled in them , such he scornfully reproacheth , saying , What means those cracks and crannes in their knowledge , knowing but in part ? there is no pieces , nor parts , nor measures , nor degrees in absolute perfection , but whosoever sayes he knows in part , he is short of perfection ; and whosoever saith he knoweth perfectly , he knows not how perfect his knowledge is , and the first of these is called a vain man , boasting of that which is not , and of a false gift , and is like clouds , and winde without rain . Ans. Herein is Pauls Doctrine ( as well as ours ) declared against , to be but as cracks and crannes , and a vain boasting of a false gift ; for Paul saith , We dare not make our selves of the number , or compare our selves with some that commend themselves , but they measuring themselves by themselves , and comparing themselves with themselves , are not wise : But we will not boast of things without our measure , but according to the measure of the Rule which God hath distributed unto us , a measure to reach even unto you ; for we stretch not our selves beyond our measure , not boasting of things without our measure , that is of other mens labours . Now this measure of which he thus spoke , was in Christ , so in perfection ; and there is parts and degrees in Christ , and so in absolute perfection ; for so far as every man is in the measure of the gift of God , so far he is in Christ , and so far his knowledge is perfect , and abiding in this he abideth in that which is perfect ; and as he glories in this , he gloryes in a true gift , and none shall make this glorying void . Obj. And whereas Iohn Iackson saith of those that say they have but attained in measure , he calleth that the bleeting of the sheep , and the lowing of the Oxen , which declares plainly that they are not at home , they are not in the City , but have certain miles to travel before they arrive . Ans. This is a false interptetation , as I shall leave it unto all of understanding to judge ; for the bleeting of the Sheep , and the lowing of the Oxen , did signifie Sauls disobedience unto the commandment of God , for which the Lord did reject him : But when Paul said he knew in part , and prophesied in part , and would not boast above his measure , this did not signifie his disobedience to the Lord , but contrariwise his obedience , and that he was in Christ Jesus : so this was not as the bleeting of the Sheep , and lowing of the Oxen , neither did it shew that they were not in the City ; for Paul testifieth of the holy Brethren which he was a Minister unto , That they were come unto Mount Sion , and unto the City of the living God , the heavenly Ierusalem , and to an innumerable company of Angels , to the general Assembly , and Church of the first-born , which are written in heaven ; and t● God the Iudge of all , and to the spirits of just men made perfect , and to Iesus the Mediator of the new Covenant , & to the blood of sprinkling . Now let him that have thus accused , shew how many Miles these had to travel before they came to the City ; & whether was any parts , measures , or degrees in these : or whether there was absolute perfection without any measure or degrees of it ? and whether Paul was not come so far as these unto whom he preached wisdom , even among those that were perfect : and might he not in that estate say that he would not stretch himself beyond his measure ? But this I say , None are true witnesses of perfection but those who know their measure , and abide in it : and likewise , those that call the witnessing of the truth in a measure of the spirit , the bleeting of the Sheep , or the lowing of the Oxen , such never knew perfection , neither yet presseth after it , but would keep all others from it , by despiteful terms against the measure of the spirit which leadeth unto it : But the day is come , and the light is risen , which hath found out and discovered all the cunning craftinesse of men , in which they go about to deceive the hearts of the simple , and beguile unstable souls ; but the elect Seed is risen which it is impossible to deceive ; for it is not the Scripture-words which men may take and speak in the hypocrisie , which can darken our knowledg , no● any way hinder the testimony of truth in those which have received it in the power of God , only with such things the blind may lead the blind , and with such things they may strive to keepe others out of the kingdom which have not tasted of the good word of God , neither are brought to know a measure of God in themselves , whereunto to be obedient ; but I see the Lord is opening a way for such to come out of the pits which they have been led into , in opening their eyes , and letting them see that their Watchmen is blind , and that understanding is departed from them , even from their Leaders , and the counsels of God is departed , even from the ancient ▪ and the people is even like to perish for want of vision , because they have not seen for themselves , but their Teachers have seen for them vain visions , and lying divinations , and prophesied lyes , causing the ignorant to believe them ; but the Lords hand is stretched out against such , and is stretched out to gather his own Seed from such , to bring them into the fear of the Lord , which is the beginning of wisdom , and into the knowledge of the holy , which is understanding , Prov. 9. 10. which understanding is a Well-spring of life . Another seeming strength risen up against us , is the conceit of the discovery of a schism in the body , as if the Band or Girdle which bound up the body were broken , and as if there were now a character brought forth amongst us , shewing a variety of persons , doctrines , and practices , and as if the testimony of our being of the body of Christ , from the unity in the body were ceased , and as if the Heads were divided , and a● for proof , instances G. F. to I. N. I N. to G. F. I. B. to I. N. and as if it were not person , but party , which some wonder at , admiring and waiting to see the Lords counsel and pleasure in it . Ans. All those that wait to see the Lords counsel and pleasure , and his wisdom in this thing , shall see it , and be satisfied , and it will for the time to come be more for the confounding of those that watch for iniquity , then any way for confirming them in iniquity , and by that which God hath done , and is doing , shall the Girdle and Band of our love be made stronger , and in this shall the sight of our enemies fail , and become blindnesse , for their thoughts is not as Gods thoughts in these things , neither their eye as his eye , for he saw a better thing for us in these things then they have imagined , for that which they thought wrought for evil , hath wrought together for good unto those that stand in Gods counsel , who always waits to see those works which stands in his wisdom , contrary to mans reason ; for that which they thought did break , that hath bound ; and that which they thought did separate , that hath united together ; so that there is not a difference nor dividing of Heads , not in persons , nor in parties , nor in doctrines , nor in practices , but the same unity in the body , in the faith , in the seed , in the covenant , in one heart , and one soul , one way and worship of God in the spirit is now as much , or more then ever before witnessed , so that God hath cut off occasion from those that seek occasion , and hath taken away the corner-stone that the wicked thought to build upon ; and hereby hath God tryed , and discovered , and brought to light that which lay in the bottom of the deepest pits ; for God hath brought in this his day , many things forth , to try and prove those who said they were his people ; and those that a few dayes since seemed to be like Lambs , do now manifest themselves to be in the nature of Lyons , and ravening Wolves ; and those that pretend to wait for the coming of Christ in power , and had the Name of Seekers , they are now found to reject his coming , and to be such as watch for iniquity in those among whom Christ is come ; and now they are turned backward , and now drink up that which they had vomited up ; for now if they could but finde any iniquity among such as God hath made known the glory of his power among ; or if they can but suppose or imagine any such thing from false conceptions and conclusions , this would be a sufficient ground to them to print a Book upon , and publish it abroad , and but that the Lord hath been on our sides , well may we say , when all sorts of men and religions hath risen up against us , by their violence had we been consumed , for the powers of darknesse , and all the divers worships of the Beast , are now more joyned together then ever , and the deepest subtilty of the Serpent is now at work in his members , to devise wayes , and change the Laws and times , whereby the spirit might be quenched which God hath raised up in his children , whereby a mighty cry is gone forth through the Nations against the mystery of iniquity , where it worketh , both in the root and the branches of it ; and now is the burden of the Beasts of the South felt as truly as in the Prophets dayes , Isa. 30. 6. from whence cometh the young and old Lyon , the Viper , and fiery flying Serpent , and now doth the mighty and terrible cry of the spirit of the Lord go forth to the men of this generation , as it went forth before time to the Aegyptians , concerning this which the Lord hath wrought , ( your strength is to stand still ) and if this counsel of the Lord be by you received , you shall know more of the wayes and workings of the Lord with his children , and that all things which the Lord hath done is for the furtherance of the Gospel , and that those which are approved may be made manifest ; what a strong ground of occasion would the envious one have thought he had , if he had come among the babes in Christ who were met together at Corinth , hearing Paul say that there was divisions among them , and said that there must be heresies among them , that they which are approved may be made manifest , 1 Cor. 18. 19. and this was no character that God had broken them without hands , no● that he had made their profession of unity of no force , but through this manifestation he did work schism out of the body , that so there should be no Schism , Rent , Heresie , nor any such thing in the body ; and this thing was not that the enemies of God might glory against the truth ; and if any labour to seek occasion against the holy Brethren , and say they are divided into Heads because two eminent men of them withstood one another , as concerning eating with the Gentiles , viz. Paul and Peter ; to such I say , he that gathered at first into unity , is the Healer and Repairer of such breaches ; and they may professe and witnesse as much unity after this as ever before . And th●se three which the envious one hath mentioned to be at difference in Doctrine and practice , viz. G. F. J ▪ N. and J. B. the unity in the life and power of God in them , and in their Doctrine and practice shall stand for a witnesse , and for a condemnation against all the accusers : and now seeing that their occasion is taken away , their accusations may cease ; and if such Prophe●s be deceived , then let them consider who hath deceived them , I the Lord hath deceived that Prophet . Therefore what would such a Prophet think of the Apostles words when he saith , There must come a falling away first , that the man of sin may be revealed ? Would he , or could he judge this a ●haracter that the day of of Christ were at hand , or that through such things the power of it should be made more manifest ? or that those among whom these things were wrought , should be thereby the more united ? To believe this will bring men even to their wi●s end , it being so contrary to their thoughts and conceivings , and this may w●ll con●ound their wisdome , and turn them backward , and bring them to question the truth of all that which ever they have written , spoken , o● acted against th●se whom the Lord hath manifested his power and work among , contrary to their judgement and discerning ; for the wayes and workings of the Lord is deep , and his secrets are with those that fear him , and not with those that despise his appearance , and speak evil of that they know not ; and the Lord will yet work greater things in the earth , that such may be confounded . And what wil such say , if the words of Daniel the Prophet be fulfilled in these dayes , saying , And some of them of understanding shall fall to try them , and to purge , and to make them white , ●ven to the time of the ●nd , &c. Dan. 11. ●5 . Doth not God he●eby try men , and try their spirits , and try their discernings ; should any in such cases judge before the time the Lord make it manifest , for this cause will God bring such into judgement ▪ Therefore I say unto you , that your strength is to sit still and let the Lord alone , and let his people alone , and let him work his own work in his own way , and presume not to be his counseller , for who have known the mind of the Lord ? let such as have , dwell in it , and preserve knowledge , so shall they alwayes abide in strength , and power , and Union with the Lord , and one with another ; and men shall yet know for all that hath been , that we are his Disciples , because we love one another ; and none shall make our glorying and rejoycing in the unity of the spirit , and in the love of God , void ; but it shall abound more and more to torment the spirit of enmity which would break it , or accuse us for professing of it , but over that spirit we are in the Lord . But what if some should rise up , even from among our selves , speaking perverse things , and draw Disciples after them , and go out from us , as they did from among the Apostles , that it might be made manifest , that they were not all of us : Ought this to be laid to our charge ? Or , ought the way of God to be accused ; because of such things , to be Heresie , or Schisme ? If this seem to you an evident token of perdition and of error , yet to us of Salvation , and that of God . And we are assured that we are of God , having the witness in our selves , yet not bearing witness of our selves , for there is one that beareth witness of us , even the Father which is in Heaven , and his witness is true , being unto us a seal of assurance . Therefore from henceforth this is a Warning to small and great , that they no further proceed in that which is both unnecessary and unseasonable : For this I say unto all such , that it is unnecessary and unseasonable , to seek to perswade us , that the truth is error , or that the light , which every man is enlightned withal , is the spirit of every man , for that is not according to the record which God hath given of his son , nor which the son hath given of the light ; but blessed be that day , and blessed for ever be that power in which a seed is brought forth , unto which the Father ha●● given ●●●u● testimony in which they shall never be confounded , which abide faithful , for great is the mystery of godliness , God manifest in the flesh , and against this manifestation is the power of darkness risen up , and all the messengers and ministers of Satan under all Forms and professions , hath joyned themselves together to make their arm strong against the Son of righteousness ; his righteous life , and righteous wayes , which now he is bringing forth , among his children ; but out of the mouth of Babes , hath God ordained strength , against which all the powers of darkness cannot prevail ; and unto which strength all our enemies must bend , and bow , and come for salvation ; For that which now the leaders of the people , have set themselves against , when they have finished their course , and the anguish comes over their souls , then will they confess , That it had been well if they had loved the light , and walked in it , which they have so long hated , and dispised , with those that walk in it ; and all those which have exercised their strength , to shut others out of the kingdom of God , by their Preaching , Printing , and false Accusations , they shall know that while they serve sin , they are free from righteousness , and do keep others from it ; But the time is coming , that their mouths must be stopped , and the Lord w●ll cause his everlasting righteousness to spread abroad , as broad Rivers , and streams , unquenchable , and nothing shall hinder it ; and this is the day in which the Lord will try those that dwell upon the earth , as he hath tryed many , and measured them by a true Line , and hath found them deceitful , although they have made profession of his name , and of his words , for a cloak for their iniquity ; But now the light is come into the world , and there remain● no more cloak for their sins , nor hiding place for their iniquitie . The End . 
A86667	----	The rebukes of a reviler fallen upon his own head, in an answer to a book put forth by one Iohn Stelham, called a minister at Terlin in Essex. Wherein is shewed unto all spiritual men, that he himself is justly proved to be a contradictor of the scriptures, while he falsly accuses others thereof, that are clear, and the saying is fulfilled upon him, he is fallen into the pit, which he digged for others, for even that way which he calls heresie, do we worship the God of our fathers. By R.H. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A86667 of text R207520 in the English Short Title Catalog (Thomason E919_7). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 181 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 42 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A86667 Wing H3229 Thomason E919_7 ESTC R207520 99866565 99866565 118841 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A86667) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 118841) Images scanned from microfilm: (Thomason Tracts ; 138:E919[7]) The rebukes of a reviler fallen upon his own head, in an answer to a book put forth by one Iohn Stelham, called a minister at Terlin in Essex. Wherein is shewed unto all spiritual men, that he himself is justly proved to be a contradictor of the scriptures, while he falsly accuses others thereof, that are clear, and the saying is fulfilled upon him, he is fallen into the pit, which he digged for others, for even that way which he calls heresie, do we worship the God of our fathers. By R.H. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. Burrough, Edward, 1634-1662. 64, 57-75, [1] p. printed for Giles Calvert at the Black-spread-Eagle neer the west-end of Pauls, London : 1657. Text continuous despite pagination. R.H. = Richard Hubberthorn cf. Wing. A reply to: Stalham, John "Reviler rebuked". Annotation on Thomason copy: "July: 23". Reproduction of the original in the British Library. eng Stalham, John, d. 1681. -- Reviler rebuked. Heresy -- Early works to 1800. A86667 R207520 (Thomason E919_7). civilwar no The rebukes of a reviler fallen upon his own head,: in an answer to a book put forth by one Iohn Stelham, called a minister at Terlin in Es Hubberthorn, Richard 1657 35426 225 0 0 0 0 0 64 D The rate of 64 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the D category of texts with between 35 and 100 defects per 10,000 words. 2007-05 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2007-06 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2007-08 Robyn Anspach Sampled and proofread 2007-08 Robyn Anspach Text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion THE REBUKES OF A REVILER Fallen upon his own head , In an Answer to a BOOK put forth by one Iohn Stelham , called a Minister at Terlin in Essex . Wherein is shewed unto all Spiritual men , that he himself is justly proved to be a Contradictor of the Scriptures , while he falsly accuses others thereof , that are clear , and the saying is fulfilled upon him , he is fallen into the Pit , which he digged for others , for even that way which he calls Heresie , do we Worship the God of our Fathers . By R. H. London , Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black-spread-Eagle at the West-end of Pauls , 1657. THE REBUKES OF A Reviler , Fallen upon his own Head . In an Answer to a Book put forth by one John Stelham , called a Minister at Terling in Essex . VVHereas the antient of dayes hath appeared , and the Lord God of Israel , and of his holy Seed for ever , hath in these our dayes , being his own appointed time , stretched forth his hand to gather in his Remnant , which hath been scattered , and starved upon the barren Mountains , and he hath made known his arm and power , in raising up his righteous branch , and in bringing out of Captivity his own Chosen , that his own Name may be exalted for evermore , and his marvelous light hath he caused to shine forth unto many that have sit in darkness , and he hath cryed , behold me , behold me , unto a people that hath not been called by his name ; yea , from this time it shall be said , What hath God wrought , and who is like unto them that are saved by the Lord , a happy people , and blessed are they whom he hath chosen for his own Inheritance , they dwell in their tents , and none can make them afraid , for there is no Inchantment against Israel , nor no Divination against the Seed of Jacob , he that curses them , it shall return upon his own head , and he that defies them , shall surely be confounded in a day ; for God hath spoken , and it shall surely come to pass , he hath said , and it shall not be revoked ▪ They that wait upon him , shall never be ashamed ; but his presence shall go before them , and his righteousness shall be their reward : Therefore , O ye Mountains , and Hills , wherefore are ye gathered together , ye high and lofty Oaks , and rebellious Children , to what purpose have you set your selves , as in Array for B●t●●l , against the Lord , and against his Anointed ; in vain have you sought Divination against Israel , and to no purpose have you risen up to resist Mount Sion , whom the Lord is establishing ▪ and exalting above the Dominions of the earth , and though many have set themselves ( and of the wisest too , in our age ) to gainsay the truth , which is revealed , by subtil Arguments , and have travelled in pain to bring forth misty vapors , to blind the eye of the simple , and have laid , and sought so to do , stumbling blocks of iniq●ity before the people , by multitude of crafty ▪ productions , and lying arguments : Wo unto you , wise Writers and Scribes , you have taken away the Key of Knowledge , and have neither entred the Kingdom , nor suffered others to enter that would , what will be your doom , and what will be your judgment , O the heavie hand of the Lord will be upon you , you damnation sleeps not a moment : And whereas John Stelham ▪ one o●Gogs ▪ Army against the Lamb and his followers , a falsly supposed , and contrarily called , and unjustly named , Minister of the Gospel , hath out of his corrupt , wicked , old , lying heart , ( which he confesseth he hath ) brought forth a large Piece , out of Babylons treasure , of falsly collected , and falsly framed Arguments , whereby he hath sought to offend the way of the Lord , but the rather hath burthened his own Soul , by his own wickedness , and offended himself , and made himself unworthy of life eternal , and is reckoned in the sight of the Lord , and proved in the sight of man , to be indeed sinful : John Stelham : yea ▪ he is numbred , and truly too , among Babylons Children , and the Lyars , and Hypocrites , whose portion is in the lake , and not among the Children of the Lord , for them , he hath set himself to oppose , and by his subtilty , secretly sought out Inch●ntments , and endeavouring to curse , whom God hath blessed , he is accounted among the uncircumcised , and shall not die the death of the Righteous , neither shall his last end be like unto his , except he repent ; yea , God hath kept him back from honour , and to shame and disgrace he is already promoted , in the sight of all the Saints , and all his work is troden down , as a branch of a dead tree , to be cast into the fire , and what though he have travelled full 10 Months , or more , yet his birth is imperfect , and the fruit of an Egyptian Womb , which hath obtained neither praise of God , nor favour of man ; and what though his Arguments be many and subtil , through the strength of his devilish wisdom , whereby he hath descended into the darkness , to fetch up his stuffe , and invented in his mind , and framed in his evil thoughts , which hath filled his Volums by his envious pen ; and what though he hath taken seeming occasion against us by his industry and bent his tongue to utter it , as feinedly and zealously , as may blind the si●gle eye , and in as great hypocrisie , and pretended Righteousness as possibly may : What then of all these things , let him take this for an Answer in full , to all his many Arguments , and to his whole Work and whatsoever is brought forth , or may be yet lodging in his sinful heart ever to declare , We are of God , his Covenant is with us : and the whole World lyes in wickedness , and he that is of God heareth us , and this is enough , Reply to all what he hath , or can say further against us ; and this Testimony the Father gives of us , who hath chosen us in him , before the world was ; and let him , and all our adversaries know , That our Religion is in that which keeps unspotted of the world , and our acceptance with God , is in him , who is the light of the world , who exerciseth our Consciences , in all good things towards God , and towards man , and though we answer not , yet are we no worse ; and though we answer , yet are we no better ; praise of men approves us not to God , nor dispraise of men makes us not sorrowful ; But our peace is in the Father , whether the world do us love , or hate , or praise us , or dispraise : And first of all like unto Rehum and Shimshai , and their companions , he appears with his Dedication , much like unto theirs , from the same spirit , and unto the same end , as may be seen , Ezra 4. 9 , 11 , 12 , &c. and in the manner of Amaziah ▪ Priest of Bethel , unto Jeroboam the King , with a Message much of that nature , as in Amos. 7. 10 , 11 , &c. and this man with his feigned flattering titles , appears to the chief in Authority for Approbation of his work , that men may accept it the more , but that 's little worth , if God accept it less , and in much secret hypocrisie , hath he uttered the Intent of his mind , in less than a sheet of Paper , to the Protector , and Council of State , whom we hope in for more honesty than to believe Lyes , and the indictments of a sinful wicked heart : Well , but if they will harden their hearts to believe unrighteousness , they shall be filled therewith , till both the ancient , and honourable , and the false Prophet , that prophesies lyes , which is the tayle , Isa 9. 15 ▪ be consumed together , and the Saints shall stand on the earth , and the Dominion shall be given into their hands : Then among his flattering titles , he seems secretly to complain of Abuse made of the Press , for the spreading of Anti-scripturial , and Anti-christian Errors , as he saith : Indeed his own works do prove his words true , that the Press is abused , which hath by his Pen scribed so many Lyes , Reproaches , Slanders , and Errors , and the Press the instrumental cause of spreading them abroad , whereby the Press hath been abused , to the dishonour of Religion and Piety , if not to the dishonour of Authority also , then he seems to hint at the Cruelty and Outcry of many , for crying Club ▪ law against the men called Quakers ; but whether with approvement , or otherwise of it , his mind is not uttered , however by the Lyes and Slanders ensuing out of his own mouth , it is easily proved , that he is of that very generation of Persecutors , though he so well do not approve of Persecuting with the hand , yet he allowes , and himself is guilty of persecuting with the tongue , which is one in nature , so that hereby the great hypocrisie , of this man appears , in condemning others secretly of what himself is guilty of openly , then he is pleased ( though the Lord be vexed ) to cast forth his peevish smite , against the light of Jesus Christ , wherewith every man in the world is lighted , in words , thus venomously uttered , that perverse Principle of their * self-adoring light : Will the Protector and Council believe this , or will they promote him , to honour , or magnifie him , because of his oprobrious speeches against the light of the Son of God , let them answer and testifie against him , for blasphemy , who hath in his hastiness uttered his envy and wickedness , and no less then denied the Lord that bought him , in calling , and shamelesly ▪ stiling the pure light of Christ , the Way , the Truth , and the Life , Perverse Principle , and Self ▪ adoring Light : and thus it is manifested the Press is abused by such an Anti-scripturial , and Antichristian error proceeding out of John Stelhams old heart , and manifested from his Pen , then with his lying Message he follows after his flattering titles , and sayes ere long the Lord himself will rebuke them * to silence , that they shall neither write , nor speak so presumptuously &c. if his Lords believe this Message , they shall never bless him , but in the end curse him , when the production of his lying Prophesie appears , which is deceiving of their Souls , and will prove a curse upon them , and posterity , and is feeding of them with hopes of vanity and lyes , and on his own head shall his false Vision fall ; a Rebuke into silence shall come upon him , the sin is his ; writing presumptuously , and arrogantly , and the judgement there of shall he feel , and all that believe him ; truth shall be established , and his lying tongue is but for a moment , then his lye he adds to his Message , which is that the Lord Jesus is fighting against them * with the Sword of his mouth , &c. What wicked presentation is this to the chief Rulers of Nations , even lyes , one heaped upon another , to suggest into the minds of men , to stir up wrath in their hearts , against the just : nay , Jesus is our Prince of peace and righteousness , and is with us , and fights for us , and who can be against us , none but such as are his enemies , and have denied him , and his light , and counted it a perverse Principle , O how fain would John Stelham , ( sinful indeed ) gain a Kingdom by flattery , and have praise of his work by his Lyes , which he hath made his Refuge , and his Weapon too , they that believe him shall perish with him , that 's all that may be said ; his flattering titles and words of guile , may gain upon the wicked , but the just man is preserved from the fury of a deceitful tongue , then his ( supposed ) humbly Supplicate after his false Vision and lying Messages is , That every person whatsoever , may not , impune , strike them * Corporeally , &c. This appears fair in words , if his meaning were right , yet while he supplicates , That every one may not , though whether he means any one may not , ( I determine not ) strike them corporeally , &c. Yet to publish his Lyes , and Errors , and Slanders he would have liberty , and this is but so much more secretly , to strike in the greater hypocrisie , in more crafty subtility ; and indeed , well may the Priests of England be ashamed of what hath already been acted , as to striking and cruel abuses , and works of that nature , the blood of many harmless hath been spilt wofully in streets and Steeple-houses , through the means of the false Prophets , and it may be they will now take another Weapon , seeing that hath failed , and not wrought effect , no more shall any formed weapon against the innocent , and though s●me of them have shamefully cryed , Fight Lads for the Gospel ▪ others may with as much hypocrisie write for the fighting lads , and in as great deceit : And then he gives an Exhortation in his Supplicate , and saith , Be pleased to let them * know , that we are guarded by a better Law , then what they upbraid us with ; its time to be ashamed that you have been so long guarded by a Popish Law , yet the secret craft of this man is noted , in this subtil suggestion , a better law would he have , what , doth it too much shame you , by the name of Popish law , and would you be less discovered , if the law of the same virtue , were of another Authority than Queen Mary , and of another Dominion than the Pope , therefore a Law from the Protector he would Supplicate , if possible , That however we may not have liberty to divulge our Doctrine in their Assemblies , as he saith , and then this evil man , and deceiver , who waxes worse and worse in his way , impudently slanders the way of God , and reproaches the Doctrine of the Gospel of Christ , and would wickedly make men ( more honest than himself ) believe ▪ That these mens * Tenents , as he saith , are as reprobate stuffe as the Jesuits , their blasphemies as horrid as the Popish Parasites ▪ Oh the wickedness and impudence which hath appeared out of this mans heart in those few words , wickedness , in that his words are lyes , and devilish ; and impudent , in that he dares thus to appear to an Authority , with the Dedication of Lyes ; Let him take notice of this ▪ We are clear from his false Accusations , and of Popish Doctrines ; But they that are one with him , are not from being guarded with a Popish Law , and these are truly Romes Subjects , who are guarded with his Law , more than we are Romes Emissaries , which secretly he would cast upon us , and make the Protector and his Council believe it , if their hearts be so hardened : But better is thought upon concerning them , though I. S. would make them evil , suggesting evil into their hearts : But a false Prophet is known by his Lyes and Slanders , and secret smiting ; and then he saith , He would have some of this Sect * more narrowly watched , &c. and stigmatized : Oh cruelty ! out of the abundance of the heart his mouth utters , like a Pot boyling , with anger that cannot contain it within the mouth , what lodges in the heart of this man , consider , what less , then in their hearts , who were Q●een Maries Jesuits and Priests , if the Protector and Council would answer , the cruel intent of his mind , as Queen Mary did theirs , Balaam , or worse he is ; for he hath sought inchantment , and would curse before they sent for him to do so , but it shall return on his own head , who is watched against , for a Wolf and Devourer , and stigmatzed for a Deceiver , and false Deviner , one who art marked for a false Prophet , and known to be so , by every one who is taught of God , and in the end of all this secretly uttered wickedness , and cruelty , insinuatingly , expressed ▪ to suggest evil into the minds of men , more honest than himself , he wishes for Blessing upon his Highness and Honours , that they may discern true Spirits from false , such who proceed out of the mouth of the false Prophet , from such as proceeds from the Father , and from the Son , indeed of such a gift of discerning they have need , and by the fruits they may try every Spirit , and in a just tryal , by just judgement , are thou tryed , and thy spirit is made manifest , to be the spirit which proceeds out of the mouth of the D●agon , who wars against the Saints , and out of the mouth of the B●ast , who hath many Heads and many Horns , which Beast arose up in the Apostacy since the Apostles dayes , and thy Spirit is made manifest to be that spirit of the false Prophet , who deceive ▪ the Nations , for thy fruits doth discover thee a lyar , aslanderer , a perverter of the right way of God , art thou proved , and such things proceeds out of the mouth of the false Pro , and so let them beware of thy Spirit , who art not guided by the Spirit of Christ Jesus , nor of the Father , but a worker of darkness , and a reviler of the light of Cstrist , calling it ( false Prophet-like , as being led with the Spirit of the Dragon , and of the Beast ) Perverse Principle : We have measured thy spirit to be as I have said , and he that speaks otherwise , speaks a lye , and if the Protector and his Council believe otherwise ▪ they believe a lye , and cannot obtain a blessing , though thou with thy lying Spirit pray for them , whom God ( the Father of blessings ) hears not , but is against thee ; and this is my prayer , The Lord rebuke thee , and thy wicked tongue , and give the Protector and his Council a better understanding than to believe thee , else will the Lord make them cursed to themselves , and to the Nations , of them my heart hopes better things , and this might serve for a full Answer to thy whole Book , and by this little of thy work that I have viewed , & turned nto the sight of all , art thou discovered , to be an enemy to God , and a secret envier of his people , and by what thou hast said it appears what the rest of the whole matter can be , an evil spirit cannot bring forth good works , but yet a little further , is thy matter unvayled for the sake of the upright . And further , I. S. after his wicked Presentation to the Rulers of this Nation , with lyes and evil Speeches proceeding out of his old heart , he writes an Epistle ( out of the same heart ) to the Church , as he calls them , wherein is many words uttered , but altogether tasted with that leaven of his malice , against Quakers and Quakerism , who seems to be the greatest burthen upon his evil heart , because truth is among them , and if truth go on , his deceit will be more made manifest , wither , and perish , and so as subtilly as may be he would defend himself , in the sight of his Church that his shame may not appear before them ( it may be lest his Hire should be abated ) and he seems to cast a cloak upon them , but whether out of pure love to their Souls , or for his own Gain , and such a sum of Money , God knowes ; however the least Child in the truth dwelling in the light , sees his length , and can measure his state , and knows that good cannot come from an old lying heart ▪ and he speaks something of wondring after the beast and false Prophet , but hath not described what the Beast is , and the false Prophet : And I refer the Reader to a Book called , The Measure of the Times : wherein the Priests of England , such as I. S. is reproved according to the Scripture , to be the very branches of the same Root of false Prophets which all the World wondered after in Johns time ; and though he speak much to his Church of Christ without , and of his birth , blood , and his righteousness , and justification thereby ▪ &c. but to all that , I say , All are Reprobates but such in whom Christ is within them , and none are justified but such , nor hath any part in the inheritance of God , though they may profess never so much of Christ without , and what he hath done for others , yet except he be within them too , to change and renew them , and give them power over all their sins , their profession of him is vain . I am no picker of Quarrels , else many of his words might be searched , which I run over hastily , knowing his voice to be the voice of a stranger , and not of Christ , who never made use of an old sinful heart to pen Epistles to Churches . But into this lets search ; he saith , Christ blessed Infants-Baptism : Where , or when , I ask proof of this , and till then I say I. S. hath belyed Christ , and the generation of the just ; Well may he belye us , when he hath belyed Christ , who could not bless that which there was not : there was no Infants Baptism that ever we read of in his dayes : sure people will be more wise than to be established through Lyes , else their sin be upon them , if through hardness of heart they be given up to believe Lyes , that they may perish . He speaks of a well ordered Conversation ; Indeed this seems Hypocrisie , to exhort others ( their Churches ) to that which many of the Independen Teachers have not themselves , who are Hirelings , and takes Gifts , and Rewards for Preaching , and is in the way of all the Deceivers of old ; and they that do these things have not a well ordered Conversation , but a Conversing with the generation of ungodly , and when we read the plain words of Christ , Luke 17. The Kingdom of Heaven is within you : he saith , we madly wrest the reading of the words , when we neither ●dd nor diminish ; now he seems to say , It is the Kingdom of heaven among you , and not the kingdom of heaven within you ; and so blames the Scripture , and confounds the doctrine of many of the Independents , who say , the Scriptures is believers Rule ; but he seems to charge the Scripture with false translation , and therefore is subject to alteration , and so cannot be the rule of Believers according to his own account , and thus by wicked men are we blamed when we do not speak according to Scripture language , and now as wickedly charged by I. S. for speaking just in the Scripture expressions , with madly wresting the words , but thus it was before , and whatsoever we do now by our enemies must be reviled , and our words abused , contrary to our innocent intents . Then in the end of his Epistle , he desires the Prayers of his Church , that his Reply may be accompanied with power according to the truth of it . Indeed so it shall , and no more ; according to the truth of it , which is very f●lshoods and deceits ; so shall the power of the Lord confound it , and turn it into folly and confusion , as may be seen by a sober man , who this following ▪ doth with patience read , and weigh . Then many things is uttered by him in his Epistle to the Reader , he seems to shew he saith , how R. F. and his Associates have made up A Litter and Fardel of Erronious Divinity : and secretly charging us with making up of what we profess from some Writers before us . But to this I Answer , His reproachful words , Litter , and Fardel , and Erronious , we bear with patience , rather rejoycing that we are accounted worthy of the reproach for the truths sake from an envious man , than to be angry with our reproaches : But however , let him and all our enemies know , what we profess and bear witness of , we receive not from man , but from God , even the Gospel which we testifie of , by the revelation of Jesus Christ in us , we received it ; and informs others to the same door , which is , by our Ministry , that they may receive the same : and this is but his poor shift , to undervalue the power and truth of Jesus , in the sight of men , who would falsly make men believe , That our Doctrines are but the spawn of many ancient Errors , as he saith , brooded by some Moderne Writers , when as the Doctrine of Christ and the Apostles we bear witness to by the same Spirit , and not to any other Authors who were without the Spirit of Jesus : and all these shifts ●aves not the Priests of England from being discovered , and their deceits and abominations to be made manifest by our Light and Doctrine , which is the Light of Christ , and the Doctrine of the holy men of God before us . And further , his wickedness appears by reproaching and reviling dead men , such as H. N. Jacob B. W. E. with others , whom I confidently believe were men in their Generation more honest than himself , and more upright with God , and sincere in what was made known to them , than this same reviler who is set to revile both living and dead , if they do but cross his fancy : Let all men take notice of these things , and of his rebukes , with an evil heart , whom the Lord doth and will rebuke by the Spirit of his mouth , in the day of his just judgements , who art a reviler of the just both living and dead : and all along in that Epistle , as in the rest of his Book , which is the Rebukes of a Reviler , he bends his very tongue , as the poyson of Asps being under it , against the Quakers , reckoning them with the Papists , and such others ; but this is but as the Pharisees his fore-fathers did , who numbered the Son of God , and condemned him with transgressors , and betwixt two theeves . And in the end , he desires his Reader to receive in Love , what in his Book is found agreeable to the Spirit of God in Scripture truth , agreed ; so let it be , and therefore many things in his Book , which is not given forth by the Spirit of God , nor according to the Scripture truth , which the honest Reader may find upon a serious reading and search , with the Spirit of God , and according to the Scripture is to be judged and condemned , and not received ; what shall the honest Reader receive this for truth , That the Light of Christ Jesus is A Preverse Principle , and that Christ blessed Infants Baptism , with very many such like things of the like nature proceeding from the same spirit , which is proved not to be of God ▪ but of the Devil , for every tree is known by its fruit , and every spirit by its works , and words : many other things more devilish , if more devilish can be ; he charges us withal in a most unreasonable manner , that our Religion is the Fort of Babel , and that Jesuitical Plots and Designes are carried on by some of us ; and Quakerism is built upon the fourfold pillar of Papistry , with such like ; the very transcribing of his words shewes his wicked spirit by his unsavory words ; which things we do deny in the presence of the Lord , and are clear in his sight from these divilish accusations ▪ though I. S. play the Devils part , in this Epistle as well as in his whole Book : and is an accuser of the brethren , and is to be cast out and judged , with the life of God , and to give testimony against his lyes and slanders is sufficient Answer , and the next time he enterprises the like Work , we demand of him witness of his words , what these Jesuitical Flots and Designes are , we do carry on ; Which slander is so divelish could he prove what he saith ▪ his words would take away our lives ; but to raise the unclean spirits against us , though the Nations is truly supposed the purpose of his words , and not being content with what he himself can believe us in , his work reaches to raise the rage of whole Nations to execute their fury as well as his own upon us , and so his words gives ground to all the wicked that doth believe h●m ( for none else can ) to persecute the people , and way of the Lord , under the false account of being Plotters , and of having ill Designes , which things we stand witness against , and seeks the peace of all men , though he have bent his tongue for Lyes , and brazen'd his face to utter them without fear or shame , to suggest evil into mens minds that they may harm the upright , but it is known by his words what lodgeth in the heart of such a person , who thus openly and impudently doth slander just men to the taking away of life ▪ if any were so divilish to witness lyes and slanders , as he is in forging of them , and declaring of them , and that to the Protector and his Council too ; but from these things we being clear , are the more ready to bear his Lyes with Patience , and doth not pray for fire to devour him , though he be our enemy and the Lords ; but rather wishes his returning from his ungodliness , than a destruction upon him in his ungodliness ; and whereas the substance of his matter invented in his mind and brought forth into view , is a going about to prove that in twenty two particulars mentioned by him , we do contradict the Scriptures , but his ground is false from whence his whole work proceeds , for not in any particular of what is mentioned do we contradict the Scriptures , though his whole work be founded upon this thing , of our contradiction to Scripture , and while we be approved in the sight of the Lord , we reckon his s●●nders to be rather a testimony to us , that we are of God , than a discouraging of us in the wayes of God : and we do not allow that I. S. be our Interpreter , and the Expositor upon our words : for then no question but he will judge out of his prejudicial mind , false Judgement , and pervert the innocent words into contradiction of Scripture , and of our selves , but to the single mind and witness of God in every man we appeal for judgment , and doth in the sight of God commend our selves to every mans Conscience , and begs not belief of any , but knows all that be in the light of the Son of God witnesseth to us , and feels our Doctrine to be the Doctrine of Godliness , reaching to the witness of God in every one whereby we are a good savour to God in all , and though I. S. judge our doctrine to be Scripture contradictions , yet his judgement is but out of his old lying heart , which can bring forth no better than it self even false judgement , and lying words , which out of it hath plentifully abounded , in his false Rebukes ; therefore let the Reader first search into the ground from whence his work and judgement doth spring , and try if an old Lying heart , and sinful wretch ( as he confesses he is ) can bring forth good fruit ; no , we matter not what his judgement of us be , when as we know the heart is corrupt from whence it doth spring , not in the light of the spirit of God , do we in any one particular insisted upon , by him Contradict the Scriptures , though by his dark minde so he wickedly judgeth of us , even as the Pharisees , his forefathers , did judge of Christ to be a Blasphemer and a Contradictor of Moses , and the Prophets , who did fulfil them , and put them to an end , and not destroy them , nor contradict them not in the sight of his Father , though to their corrupt judgement ; and Christ tells them that they erred not knowing the Scriptures , nor the power of God , who had old lying hearts , & were sinful wretches , even such as John Stelham hath confessed himself to be , and therefore his words and judgment , and theirs is like to be all of one nature ▪ judging truth to be error , and the way of God to be Heresie and Blasphemy , this the Pharisees did of old , and even thus doth John Stelham and his Companions do at this day ; but why should any be troubled hereat , seeing herein Christs words are fulfilled upon us , who said , they shall speak all manner of evil falsly against you for my names sake ; and so hath this man done with his light scornful spirit , and fulfilled Christs words , who because he hath not known the Father , nor the Son , hath spoken evil falsly against them that follow Christ , and this were sufficient answer to his whole Book ; yet let us see what follows , and let the Reader try with all moderation , that he may be edified , and may know the true spirit from the false , and the doctrine of the Gospel from lying visions ; and may cleave to the truth , and escape the error , and let none believe hastily , things uttered without knowledge , out of I. S. deceitful heart . FOrasmuch as many of the Servants of the Lord have been moved of the Lord to set forth in order , several Declarations of those things which the light of the glorious Gospel shining in their hearts , hath given them the knowledge of ▪ and for this end are they published , that others also may know the certainty and truth of those things which are believed , known , and enjoyed amongst us , not that they can be known by reading the letter in which they are delared , but through their diligence and obedience to the light wherewith Christ hath enlightened them [ though not for it ] which is the same light which shined in our hearts , and gave us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ , by which light of the glorious Gospel who are faithful in it to the Lord , their understandings come to be opened , that they stumble not at those things which are testified in the truth , neither at that which is declared in other Scriptures , but it being that in this our day it hath pleased the f●ther to bring forth in life and power that mercy and truth ( which the Scripture speaks of ) by which iniquity is purged out , and as it is become a savour of life unto life in those that receive and believe in it , so it is also become a savour of death unto that death which rema●ns in both Priests and People in this age , who hates the light who can scarce hear it named or that people should be turned unto it ( as the Apostle did turn them from darkness to the light , and from the power of Satan unto God that they might receive the remission of their sins , and be partakers of the inheritance amongst them that are sanctified ) but when they hear that Preached or Printed , which they may do , and out of which they cannot receive the remission of their sins , then envie riseth up in them , and a perverse mind , and ungodly Speeches , and false Accusations , saying , that we speak of a natural light , and of a natural conscience , when as we speak of the true light which hath enlightened every one that cometh into the world , and in which Christs doctrine stood which said to the people , and to the Pharisees again , and again , I am the light of the world , as Joh. 8. 12 Joh. 12. 46. but now because the light is come , and the glory of the Lord is risen upon us , and we declare it freely , as we have received it ; therefore is flouds of ungodliness risen up against us , but it is impossible that the seed which the Lord is manifesting his light and power to bring forth , should be kept alwayes under the power of death , which seed is now terrible in the Lords power , and will yet be more terrible as his power encreaseth , which is now going forth as an Army with banners , for the torment of the wicked is already begun , because the righteousness of God is now spreading over the Nations , and neither the rulers of the darkness of this world , nor all the Printings and Preachings of those who be out of the life of God , can hinder that which the Lord hath begun and is carrying on by his own power , though the nations are angry , because that by the light of his glorious Gospel shining forth , his wrath is revealed upon them for their ungodly deeds , that the Scripture which cannot be broken may be fulfilled ; and therefore it were better for them to be silent , and put their mouths in the dust ▪ if so be , for them ▪ there may be hope , then to rise up against that wihch is more unchangeable than the heavens and the earth , and therefore in vain have the enemies of God ▪ and People , in all Professions joyned themselves together against the light of truth , and the way of the Lord , which many in our dayes have fallen upon , but is broken to pieces , and it hath fallen upon many and grinded them to pouder , and nothing shall escape , for the day of the Lord is come , and it is very nigh to you that hate it , a day of darkness , and of gloominess of clouds , and of thick darkness ( and now the seed of God is ) as the morning spread upon the mountains a great people and a strong , there hath not been ever the like , neither shall there be any more after it● even to the years of many generations , a fire goeth before them , and behind them a flame burneth , the land is as the garden of Eden , before them and behind them a desolate wilderness , and nothing shall escape them , the appearance of them is a● the appearance of horses , and as horse-men , so shall they run , &c. the earth shall quake before them , the heavens shall tremble , the Sun and Moon shall be dark , and the stars shall withdraw their shining , and the Lord shall utter his voyce before his Army ( as he now doth ) for h●s Camp is very great for he is strong that executeth his word , for the day of the Lord is great and very terrible , and who can abide it . And now , according as the Prophet Joel Prophesied , is it come , and coming to pass , Joel 2. 2 , 3 , 4 , 10 , 11. against which seed , men of corrupt minds , and reprobate concerning the things of God , are risen up , who in their first appearance , in their writings , profess themselves to be that which they are not , seeming right unto many through their feigned words , and fair sp●eches , deceiving the hearts of the simple , for whom Christ died : but afterwards in the same writings ( to those that see ) they manifest themselves what they are , and being so considered as they are seen and known cannot deceive , and therefore to all people who desire to be edified and satisfied in the ground and truth of things as they are made manifest by the Lord , to the light in you I speak , that in it you may be able to understand truth in what I say , and by the truth to judge of things that differ , for such as the tree is , such is the fruit ; an evil tree cannot bring forth good fruit , neither can one fountain send forth sweet water , and bitter . Now as concerning a Book given forth by John Stelham ( Priest at Terling in Essex ) who having an evil eye because Gods is good , and being fil●ed with indignation , because God hath mercy on his own seed whom he hath blessed , hath out of the abundance of his heart spoken it forth ; now the way to know that which is spoken in darkness is to read it in the light , and i● his t●stimony in any thing , as coming from him , is to be believed , it is that which is concerning his own condition ; and if his estate and condition be such , that in it he can receive the things of God , and minister them to others , then they may be received : but if his condition be such , that in it he cannot receive the things of the Spirit of God , then that which cannot receive ▪ cannot minister , and so he is to be silent , and none to expect the things of God from him , being neither fit to reprove , nor to rebuke , but to be reproved and rebuked , as will appear as followeth : The Ground in him , and the Heart out of which this abundence of words in his Book proceeds ; in it ( as he declares ) is yet the root of all Error , and of all sin is in him and seen by him not mortified , and that he hath an old lying heart , and flesh , wherein there dwells no truth , no good thing , a sinful wretch and worm , subscribing himself the sinful John Stelham , as in his Introduction , in page 80. and page 117 ▪ Now therefore , we having found out the Root and the Ground , to be a root of Error , and the ground of Deceit , and a heart wherein dwells no truth , nor no good thing ; therefore from that which is unclean shall we not expect that which is clean to proceed , nor truth from that wherein dwells no truth , but from the lying heart and deceitful tongue hath the Lord delivered us , so that if we be called revilers and be rebuked , and a charge laid against us , as to contradict the Scriptures of God , and be called Antiscriptural , Antichristian , and Antispiritual , We have now learned to know whence it doth proceed , even from the old lying heart , and flesh , wherein there dwells no truth ; and we can bear it because we know that till that heart be taken away , and a new heart known wherein is Truth . We must be reproached , and spoken evil of falsly , for his sake who hath taken away the old lying heart , and hath given us a new heart wherein truth dwelleth , and where truth proceeds out from , and herein are we manifest from the children of this Generation , and herein are the two states known , and the two conditions of men , according to the testimony of Scripture , and the parable which Jesus spoke , Luke 6. 39. Can the blind lead the blind , shall they not both fall into the ditch ? And vers. 45. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good ; And , an evil man out of the evil Treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil , for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh : And hereby is the tree known by his fruits , and the heart of the wicked was ever filled with lying and vanity , and understanding was hid from them , the Lord was grieved with such that did err in their hearts , and had not known his wayes , Psal. 95. 10. and such their hearts was fat as grease , and in their hearts they imagined mischief , and studied destruction , Psal. 119 ▪ 70 Psal. 140. 2. and this was an evil which was under the Sun , that the hearts of the sons of men was full of evil and madness while they live , Eccles. 9. 3. And such a heart was in the Scribes and Pharisees a lying heart wherein dwelt no truth , filled with evil thoughts , as Christ said , Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts , Matth. 9. 4. and out of the heart did arise all false accusations ; calling the truth blasphemy , and the way of it heresie , and such who be in the state as John Stelham confesseth he is , was never appointed by the Lord to watch over Souls , But such where Christ did dwell in their hearts , and because they were sons , God sent forth the spirit of his Son into their hearts , Eph. 3. 17. Gal 46. and such had truth in their hearts doing the will of God from the heart , and did draw neer unto God with a true heart , in full assurance of Faith , having their hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience , and their bodies washed with pure water ; these did not profess the things of God in an old lying heart , wherein dwelt no truth , but called upon the name of the Lord with a pure heart , and said that the end of the Commandment was Charity out of a pure heart , and of a good Conscience , and of Faith unfeigned , from which some swarved ( in the Apostles dayes ) having turned aside unto vain jangling , and such desired to be teachers of others , but the doctrine is corrupt , and the Ministry of Faith is not held where the heart and conscience is not pure ; And the Lord is good unto such who be of a clean heart . Now as concerning the Scriptures . John Stelhams Testimony from the old lying heart wherein dwells no truth , is this , That the Scriptures are the word of God , and truly so called , and the letter and Scripture is all one , as page 3 , 4. but to contradict that himself he saith in page 5. the letter taken strictly is but legal Administration using these words , the letter killeth , i. e ▪ The bare legal command without a promise of power or pardon , as a bare letter void of strength , life , and spirit ; it leaveth all men under a killing sentence ▪ and curse : let them that have understanding judge . Again , as concerning the letter in page 6. he expresseth himself thus , ( The Spirit is given by it . ) And in the next words saith the Scripture is but instrumental to the Spirit . Now mark , the Letter taken strictly being legal without a Promise of Power or Pardon , void of strength , life , and spirit , ( The Spirit to be given by this which he confesseth is void of strength , life , and spirit ) and is but instrumental to the spirit , whether this be not contradiction and confusion , let them that read judge : For in reading these things which he hath published , many may seal to the Confession of his own Condition to be truth ▪ but that which he hath declired of the things of God to be false ; For now the light being broken forth , such doctrine cannot be received , nor beleeved ; that the spirit is given by the letter , but that which is declared in the letter , was given forth from the Spirit , which was in them which spoke it forth ; but people may long have the letter , and think in it to find God and eternal life , and may die in their sins , though I. S. say that not one man in the world , knows God to be God , till he finds him in the Scripture . But I say unto him as Christ said unto the Pharisees , who had neither heard his voyce at any time , nor seen his shape , had not his word abiding in them , nor did not believe in the light , and that he was the light which did enlighten every man that cometh into the world , search the Scriptures , for in them ye think ye have eternal life , and they are they which testifie of me , saith Christ the life , but those thought that they had the life in the scriptures , deceived them , for they wanted the life when they thought they had it & so I. S. thoughts that he hath the spirit by the letter , deceives him , for when he finds the spirit & eternal life , then his old lying heart in which is no truth , but the root of error will be taken away , and so the light which cometh from Christ the life , in which the spirit is received , condemneth all such thoughts , for they proceed out of that heart which is not upright before the Lord ▪ neither is it set to seek the Lord in that way in which he and his spirit is found . Again , I. S. talking of the Scriptures , intrudes into things which he hath not seen , comparing it with that which he hath seen , and so in what he saith he is blind , saying , The Scriptures is a more standing rule , than visions . To which I Answer , The night is upon him , that he hath no vision , and therefore doth not know what a vision is a rule unto , nor the continuance of it , as those in Israel , which said that every vision fa●leth , and so would not have them a standing rule , and that reproach of the visions of God , was so common , that it was become a Proverb amongst them ; but the Prophet who was in the light ▪ and had the vision of the Lord ▪ and had the word of the Lord , he was to reprove that Proverb , and to tell them that they should no more use it as a proverb in Israel , and said , the dayes are at hand , and the effect of every vision ; and so with the light , who be in it doth now reprove all such proverbs and preachings against the visions of God , for from the visions was the Scriptures spoken forth , and that which they had seen they declared ; so that which gives forth words is greater than the words , and without vision the people perish , and they may perish while they have the letter , but they cannot perish while they have the vision ; and although there be vain visions , they do not make the true of none effect . And although there be Sorceryes and Enchantment that doth not make the true resurrection of the dead of none effect ; but the blind must stumble at the things which they do not see . Again , I. S. saith , That the Authority of the Scriptures is owned among the Jewes to this day . Answ. No , Christ is not owned amongst them who is the Authority , and Power , unto which the Scriptures give testimony that he is so , neither are they yet converted , as thou thy self confessest , and they who be in the unconverted estate , doth not own the Authority of the Scriptures though such may talk of them , as thou dost , speaking that of them which they never spoke of themselves . Again , I. S. saith , in the 17. page , As deep things as the Spirit hath Revealed , they are all in the Scripture . Answ. Nay , There was things Revealed which was unutterable , and many things which was Revealed , and also Written , which is not in the Scripture ; as the Book of Nathan the Prophet , and the Prophesie of Ahijah the Shil●●mit● , and the Visions of Iddoa the Seer , which was against Jer●b●ans the Son of Nabat , 2 Chron 9. 29. And the Book of Shemath the Prophet , 2 Chron. 1. 2. 15. And the Book of Jehu , 2 Chron. 20. 34. And the Book of Gad the Seer , 1 Chron ▪ 29. 29. And the Book of Jaser , 2 Sam. 1. 18. and the Prophesie of Enoch , who prophesied of the coming of Christ in his Saints , to execute Judgement upon all , and to convince all that are uugodly of all their ungodly deeds and hard speeches , which ungodly sinners have spoken against him , as Jude beareth witness ; and he also saw and Prophesied , of Israel according to the flesh , that they should do wickedly , and slay him who was the light of the world : And much more which is not written in the Bible ; And that which was manifest unto Paul , which he wrote to the Corinthians , in an Epostle , not to company with fornicators ; that whole Epistle is not in the Bible , 1 Cor. 5. 9. And likewise that which was revealed unto Paul in the dispensation of the grace of God , given unto him how that by revelation God made known unto him the mystery , which he wrote unto the Ephesians in a few words whereby they when they read , they might understand his knowledge in the mystery of Christ which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men as it was then revealed unto his holy Angels and Prophets by the Spirit , which Epistle , in which that mystery was written , is not in the Bible , Ephes. 3. 3. And the Epistle which Paul wrote to the Laod●ceans , which he charged the Colossians to read amongst them , ( and that theirs should be read in the Church of the Laodeceans ) wherin his thanks and prayers to God was for their stedfastness in the truth wherein he made manifest the unprofitable talkers , who went about to draw them from the truth of the Gospel , and from their diligence in good works of eternal life , as many vain , and unprofitable talkers are in the world now doing the same work . And whereas I. S. saith , That the Epistle of Paul to the Colossians was read as the Word of the Lord in the Church of the Laodeceans : Why doth he not as well ●ear witness that Pauls Epistle to the Laodeceans was read as the word of the Lord amongst the Colossians , Col. 4. 16 ▪ And if he read in his Church the Epistle to the Colossians as the Word of the Lord , why doth not he read to his people that which was written to the Laodeceans , they both being given forth from one Spirit ▪ So let him consider of those things above mentioned , and try whether his words will stand unreprovable , 67 page , saying , God might have revealed more than is in the Scripture , but he pleased not so to do : In that page , mentioning Samuel ▪ Moses , and the Prophets , Christ and the Apostles , saying , All that they have spoken is written both according to what was Written before , and for substance the same . Answ. What I have spoken , and shall here speak , may sufficiently make manifest that his words proceed from the old lying heart , in which dwells no truth ; for I have shewed out of the Prophets , and out of the Apostles many things which was both revealed and declared , which is not in the Bible written : And likewise I shall shew farther , of the things concerning Christ , testified by John , and we know that his Testimony is true , saying , And there are also many other things which Jesus did , the which if they should be written every one , I suppose that even the world it se●f could not contain the Books which should be written , John 21. 25. So that all is not written which was revealed , wrote , and spoken , which if much more were written which was made manifest , by it with that which is written , could they not know the Lord , their minds being from the light of Christ , which doth reveal and make manifest that which may be known of God in them . And many who have the Letter , and are Ministers of it , are sensual , having not the spirit , nor the word of God , nor the testimony of Jesus , and their Ministry is but as Chaff to the Wheat , and the Lord is against them ; For what is the chaff to the wheat , saith the Lord , Jer. 23. Is not my word like a fire , saith the Lord , and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces . Now many have the letter , and know not the word of the Lord as a fire , neither is the rock broken with the letter , and such use their tongue , for it is their own , and the power of the Lord is not come over it , such cause the People to err , and doth not profit them , being not sent , nor commanded of the Lord , for who are sent and commanded of the Lord , the Lord useth their tongues to speak his words , which he puts into their mouths , and such words doth profit the people , and not cause them to err , being spoken according to the law , which is light ; And the testimony of Jesus , which is the Spirit of Prophesie ; and such do witness the Scriptures , that as they cannot be broken ▪ so they cannot be denied by the Spirit which gave them fo●th to be a Declaration , of those things which was reveale● , known , and believed : But they are not that which they are a declaration of , the letter testifies of the eternal life , but it is not , it neither gives it : It testifies of the Light of the glorious Gospel shining in the heart , which gives the light of the knowledge of the glory of God , but it is not that light which gives that knowledge ▪ It testifies of the Way , but Christ is the Way ; and of the Word ▪ but God is the Word ; and of Redemption , but Christ is the Redemption , and not the letter , though it testifies of Justification , and Sanctification , but they are wrought by the Word in the grace and power of Christ , and so every one who will own the Scriptures , as they were given forth to be owned must first own that of God in them , which is manifest to work in the Creature , that which they testifie of , that Christ the power of God they may witness , working all their works in them , and for them , according to the Scriptures . But contrary to the Scriptures , I. S. from the root of Errour , saith , That the written letter is the spiritual Arm and Sword of the Spirit , and that the very power of the written Letter puts Satan to flight● : And in the same Page , saith , That the Devil hath Scripture in his mouth . Answ. Let the People take notice , and read the Scriptures , and see if there be any such thing that the sword of the Spirit was ever in the Divels Mouth ; for the spiritual Armour which is said to be the Word of God : But the Word of God , w●ich is the sword of the Spirit , is that by which he is to be destroyed , and is in the mystery hid from him , and all that follow his lusts : But though the Devil , which did not abide in the truth , and his Ministers who are out of the truth , may take the letter in their mouths as they have done , and say its written so , but the word of the Lord ▪ s not in their mouths , which is the sword of the Spirit , and such will use the letter in their mouths which cannot cease from sin , whose eyes are full of Adultery , beguiling unstable Souls , their heart being exercised with covetous practises , cursed children , which have forsaken the right way , and are in the Errour of Balaam , loving the wages of unrighteousness , and taking them , and such have the letter in their mouths , but knows not the Word of God , which who comes to know , it restrains them from all such practises . Again , I. S. from his blindness and root of Errour , and lying heart , wherein dwells no truth , but much confusion saith that the letter , i. e. the Scriptures is the true ground of the believers Faith : and again in the same page saith , That Christ in the Scriptures is the true Ground of Faith : And to prove the former , he brings Prov. 22. 19. 20 , 21. That thy trust may be in the Lord , I have made known to thee this day , even to thee , have not I written to thee excellent things in Counsels and Knowledge , that I might make thee know the certainty of the words of truth , that thou mightest answer the words of truth to them that send unto thee . Answ. By this Scripture the Lord is made the ground of Faith , and not the Letter : And therefore did the Prophet make known excellent things in writing , in counsel , and knowledge , and for this end did the Apostles both preach and write , that the Faith of those which heard them , and read their writtings , might not stand in the wisdom of words , nor in the letter , as its ground , but in Christ the Power of God , and Christ who preached the true doctrine , that in it every one might believe ▪ said to the World , and to the pharisees , While ye have the light , believe in the light , that ye may be the Children of light , and these had the letter , but did not believe in the light , which light is Christ , and which light is the foundation of Faith , and is the foundation of many generations , in which many did believe , before , this letter which declares of it was written ; And that Faith which stands in the light , and in the power of God is the ground of the Scripture letter , from whence it did proceed ; after they believed they spoke and wrote that which is now declared , in Chapters . And every one which come to the true ground of Faith , must come to the light to believe in it , that they may be the Children of it , and then the Scriptures will be profitable unto them , they with the light having the understanding opened to see for what end they were given forth , and how they come to be fulfilled , and witnessed in that which gave them forth ; for the ground of Faith to believers is but one both before and since the Scriptures was written , which is Christ , in whom whosoever believeth shall be saved , let Christ be in what he will , for he was the ground of Faith , when the letter was not , and he is the ground of Faith when it is , and no other foundation for Faith can any man lay , than that which is laid , Jesus Christ who is the true light , and enlighteneth every man that cometh into the world , that all men in him might believe , and they that believe not that he is so , shall die in their sins , as Christ saith , Joh. 8. 24. But John Stelham going on in his own devised Fables , would pervert the words of truth , both in our writings , and in the Apostles , as it is manifest , in his writing , of this reviling Rebuke concerning R. F. and I. N. E. B. and F. H. and others , which whosoever read their words , and his , they may discern truth from devised fables without much Reply unto it , as in some places he is mingling his own words with theirs , joyning a lye to the truth , that he may contradict it as false ; as every one that reads with understanding will see , which when they have spoken plain truths , which he himself hath often in his Book confessed unto to be truth , will afterwards give his meanings to their words , as he hath done unto the Apostles words , saying , If they mean thus , &c. then he goes about to contradict his own meaning , and when he hath contradicted his own meaning ; then he saith he hath contradicted their words , though he have before confessed the truth of their words , so he hath not contradicted the words as they were spoken , but because they spoke not his meaning with the words , therefore the true words must be false in his judgement , and bear his rebuke , as his Book doth make manifest , and adding his lye to the words of truth , these two things are his greatest proofs to resist the truth , in page 77. he hath mingled his own words with the words of R. F. in which page he acknowledgeth a former addition , and yet reneweth another . R. F. having been speaking of the light , which enlighteneth every man which cometh into the world , ( he adds ) which where it is ( and it is in every man , it reneweth the judgment , &c ▪ ) he here adding his own , and then rebuking it , would make people believe lyes , that all might be damned who believe not the truth . But on the contrary , for we never have said that every mans judgement is renewed with the light , though they be enlightened , for they are enlightened who hate it ▪ and who are void of true judgement because they hate the light which they be enlightened withal . And also the Apostles words he perverts and gives meanings unto , which if he did not they would be a plain testimony with that which he hath set himself to oppose , so giving meanings both to their words , and our words , his meanings must be the ground of his Believers Faith , and not the Scriptures , as he said before . The Apostle Peter speaking of a more sure Word of Prophesie , wherein they did well to take heed , as unto a light that shined in a dark place , until the day dawn , and the day-star arise in their hearts , 2 Pet. 1. 19. Knowing this first , that no Prophesie of the Scripture is of any private interpretation , for the Prophesie came not in old time by the will of man , but holy men of God spake as they were moved of the holy Ghost , to this I. S. adds not heart-prophesie , no breast-prophesie , but written down in Books , &c. which is contrary to the Apostles words , for he doth not exclude heart-prophesie , for there was never any prophesie but did proceed out of the heart before it was written in any Book . And the Apostle saith , Until the day dawn , and the day-star arise in your hearts , and that holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the holy Ghost , and that which moved them to speak Prophesies was in their hearts , and the Apostle did not bid them wait till the day-star did arise in the Scriptures , but till it did arise in their hearts , and then he told them how the Prophesies of the Scriptures came . Peter saying , Until the day dawn , and the day-star arise in our hearts , I. S. saith , That is until by the study of the Scriptures , more light be cleared up , &c. Now let all them of understanding , read , and compare his words , and the Apostles , and they may well conclude with his confession , that he hath an old lying heart , and flesh , in which dwells no truth , but the root of errour and gainsaying of the truth ; and as for many other of his devised fables , and false meanings , though I let them pass here unanswered ; yet they may be seen with the mind , informed in the truth ; and all who are of God , and of the truth , may know that it is a small matter for us to be rebuked , or judged to be in confusion , who so evidently hath confounded both our words , and the Apostles , into his own false meanings , and so contradicts them both ; but that remaineth sure which gave forth the Scriptures , and abideth in us , and we know that they cannot be broken , but must be fulfilled , as they were given forth by the Word , which they were given forth from , by taking heed unto which the young mans way is cleansed , and by which the old lying heart is reproved , that which was given forth from the Spirit , cannot be by it denyed , but that which would darken words without knowledge is denyed ; that which would set up devised fables above Christ , the Spirit , and Scriptures , that by the Spirit is denyed without contradiction , and as we shall by the Spirit , and by the Scriptures try John Stelhams Doctrine ; which if he deny them both ▪ then by his own Argument we shall prove him , and see whether he will own himself to be judged by that with which he would judg others , whether they be Messengers sent by Gods Spirit : His Assertion laid down Page 60 , to try withal , is ●his : Such Messengers as speak more than is in the Scripture , are not sent by Gods Spirit , nor guided by him to what they say . By this then is all that of him before mentioned , cast out , being both more , and contrary , to what is in the Scripture ; as also that which is to be declared , as followeth in his second head , as he calls it , of Scripture Contradiction ; he is speaking concerning a Trinity , and three Persons : which words a●e not spoken in the Scriptures , he naming the Father , Son , and Spirit , by such names as the Scripture never did : and so about words and names which the Scripture doth not mention , arising out of the Devination of his heart doth he multiply words to hide the truth , and shut the kingdom from men , and so hath no ground , for the word three Persons , from the Scripture , but the Scripture in one translation speaking of Christ being the express Image of the Fathers Person , and in another translation saith , that he is the express Figure of the Fathers substance , as he is witnessed to be by those that know him , and so till he find the word three Persons and Trinity in the Scriptures ▪ let him own his own rule to judge him , to be no Messenger sent by Gods Spirit , because he speaks more than is in the Scripture , who saith , The holy Ghost is a Person , and this person dwells in Saints , though not personally : ( mark this ) A Person dwell in the Saints not personally : all this confusion is as tares , which men gather , which must be bound in bundles and cast into the fi●e ; for what is the Chaff to the Wheat , or what is a I such invented words to the knowledge of the Father , Son , and Spirit , which are one , which bear record in heaven ; and there are three that bear witness in earth , the Spirit , the Water , and the Blood , and these three agree in one , and when these are known in their witness in man , what they witness unto , and what they witness against within and without , such will give them names according to their works ▪ and according to the Scriptures . The Third Head of John Stelhams Scripture Contradiction is concerning the light which every man is enlightened withal ; which of all things is most hated by all such whose wayes , words , and works , are contrary to it ; for it being risen in the hearts of the Children of men , to give the knowledge of the truth , hath in this day made many wiser than their Teachers , and now they which have caused people to err , are by the light seen , and by the children of light are denyed : and they being denyed , their envie is up against the light which hath made them manifest ; and they walk not by the light , nor according to the Scriptures , but there is a line of confusion comes over them ; by which now they walk , and from which their Writings doth proceed , as John Stelham in page 52 saith , they may affirm agreeable to the Scripture , and yet contradict the Scriptures in saying that Christ is in every man , or that the light in every man leads to the Father ; And saith , Christ , God , or as God is in every man , and a spark of his godhead light is in every man , but there is not in every man that redemption light which leads to the Father . That Light which Christ hath enlightned every man withal leads to the Father , all who are led by it and believe in it , and condemns all from the Father which do not obey it , but hate it , and speak dispitefully against it , who are turned out from God who is light and truth , into the confusion , saying , that the God-head-light is not the Redemption-light ; but with the light that Lye and confusion is judged for ever : and in affirming that the Godhead light is in every man , and then calling it common and old Creation-light , and Scripture-light , page 61 ▪ and the light of Nature , page 74 , 75. & a legal light , page 76. and a created light , page 78. and an universal light , ( unto which I say , as God is , so is his light , and so is his godhead not created , nor natural , and as every one comes to know the light , which by I. S. is so reviled , they shall neither follow , nor believe his Doctrine , till he can prove when the light of the Godhead was created , and how it became natural , or legal , or where he had those names , for the Scriptures doth give no such names to the light ; and so by his own rule he speaking more than is in the Scripture , is not a Messenger sent by Gods Spirit , nor guided by it in what he saith . As also in other things , as in Page 64. saying , That light without Scripture is no light : Then Enoch's light in which he walked with God was no light , nor Jacobs light , nor Isaacs , nor Abrahams , for they were without these Writings , and this letter which he calls the Scriptures ; but they were not without light : And thousands have so much light , whether they have the Scriptures or not as to see this darkness , as to say light , though saving light without Scripture is no light ; did the Scriptures make the light to be light , and was the saving light made by that which was written , let all take notice and turn away from such : in another place he calls the Scriptures but the Declaration that Christ is the Word , and calleth them a Vessel that the light is put into , in page 43. and 44. Now let them of understanding consider and judge whether the vessel be the maker of that which is put into it , and whether Wine that is put into a Bottle be made Wine by the bottle , or whether is it not Wine without the bottle , and Water put into a vessel be not Water without the vessel , or whether the vessel make it to be Water : John Stelham saith , Every verse of Scripture is a little vessel of light , and that light without Scripture is no light , so these things have I laid open , that every one may see how the Lord hath turned wise men backward , and made their wisdom foolishness , and that they may see how those stumble and fall , and are snared , and taken ; whose light is turned into darkness , and how great that darkness is , and now are the Scriptures not denied , but fulfilled , for now is the light and truth come into the world , by which they are found to be blind which said they saw , and in which they see , that were blind , and now the depths are seen which are covered with darkness , and Babylon is seen the Mother of Harlots which bring forth in confusion , and bind up in ignorance other confusions and lyes I shall also mention , given forth by I. S. in his Book . As page 68. he saith , That God was , and is the Word , according to Joh. 1. 1. and in page 69. he saith , The Father is not the Word , nor never so called ( which is contradiction ) and in page 70. saith , Christ is more in the Scriptures than in his Saints ( which is false ) for greater was that which the words came from than the words , which did but declare of the fulness from whence they came ▪ as all that know Christ will bear witness unto , and against all such that say Christ is more in the words than in them which speak the words . Again , in page 73. he saith Christ the Author of Salvation to them that obey him , speaking in the Scripture saveth by the Scripture ( which is false and contrary to the testimony of the Scriptures and the witness of them which witnessed his Salvation , who said , By his life are we saved , and by Grace through faith which was the gift of God , and not by the letter ; and their witness was true for God & his Works , & against all such who are of a lying heart , and spirit of errour , who would make the letter to be the light ( yea more , even that which makes light to be light , and so greater ; for that which makes a thing is greater than the thing that is made , and would have the letter to be the Word , when as the letter saith ▪ God is the Word , and would make the Scriptures to be that by which people are saved , as in page 73 saying ▪ Christ saveth by the Scriptures , but the Scriptures speak no such thing of themselves , for they say that there is no other name under heaven by which men can be saved , but by the name of Jesus ▪ neither is there such a word written in the Bible that say men is saved by Scriptures , nor that the light of the Godhead is natural as I. S. saith , that he may set up a light of Scriptures as he calleth it . And he speaks in page 82. of having our minds darkned with the light of Scriptures ; mark , doth that light , which he hath in all his Book been exalting above the Godhead light , and above that light which Christ hath enlightened every man withal , darken mens minds , what is it then that must enlighten them , here is his testimony of the light brought up to the full , that all , who can receive it may believe it , for he saith to us , if our minds were not darkned , with the light of the Scriptures , the two texts in Rom. 10. 18. and Col. 1. 23. might resolve us how the Gospel is preached to every Creature , and not to the principle of light in the Conscience , how can the Scripture resolve us of the light , if it darken our minds , but by these things this is made manifest , that darkness hath blinded his eyes that he neither knows the light , nor the Scriptures which was given forth from it . Again , another of his contradictions concerning the light in page 23 , 24. compared with page 75. is this , saying the light that shined in Pauls heart , and the light that shineth in the Scripture is the same light , and God who shineth in the heart by Gospellight , according to the Apostles words , 2 Cor. 4. 4. contrary unto which in his 75 page saith . That the Gospel light about matters of Salvatio● , of which the Apostle speaks , never entered , never shined into mens hearts . Answ To this let all take notice , and consider , whether of these two ( Contraries ) they are to believe : the one saying , God shineth in their hearts by Gospel light : and the other saith , It never entred nor shined into mens hearts : But if the Scriptures or the Apostle is to be believed , he saith , for God who commanded the light to shine out of darkness , hath shined in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ , but we have this treasure in earthen vessels , that the excellency of the power may be of God , and not of us , ●Cor. 4. 6 , 7. here was the light of the Gospel shining in their hearts in matters of Salvation ▪ giving them the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ , and they were the vessels in which the light did shine , and from which they spoke the hidden wisdom of God in a mystery , and so that which they spoke of the light , and of the Gospel is yet a mystery unto such whose eye is blinded , with the God of this world , and the wayes of unrighteousness , knowing neither the light nor the Gospel of Salvation , but filling up their line of confusion as hath been already manifest ; and may further be made manifest . Again , John Stelham in his 6. head of Scripture Contradiction speaks concerning the Law , and goes about to distinguish between the two Covenants which the Scriptures speaks of , but knows not what he speaketh , nor of what he affirmeth , but contrary to the Scriptures speaking of a Moral and of a Ceremonial Law which the Scriptures speaks of no such words , nor no such distinctions , as of a Moral Law to be the Covenant of Works , and that the Ceremonial Law is not a Covenant of Works , but of Grace . And whereas he tells of a Covenant of Nature which is one with the Covenant of Works ; and so here is several Covenants which I. S. hath made , and several Names here given to the Covenants which God never gave , nor they which spoke of the Covenants never gave such names to the Law in the words of Scripture as Moral , Legal ▪ Natural , Ceremonial , so that is all without , and contrary to the Scripture language . And whereas he goeth about to prove Adam to be under a Moral Law , which he calls a Law of Works , but hath no Scripture to prove it from , but from his suppositions : as thus , If it was not of Grace , it was a Covenant of Works ▪ and again , If the Covenant of Works was not made with Adam in innocency , God could not in justice require satisfaction of his posterity under the Fall , &c. A third supposition to prove Adam under a Covenant of Works is this , Either he stood under the Covenant of Works , or was under the Covenant of Grace , or he was under no Covenant , &c. Unto which I Answer , All such Priests and Teachers who be out of innocency themselves cannot tell what Covenant those are in with God who are innocent , and in the image of God in holiness and righteousness , and therefore from such have we so much perverting of the Scriptures , and violating of the Law of God , to make it according to their imaginations ; But unto such God saith , What hast thou to do to declare my Statutes , or that thou shouldest take my Covenant in thy mouth , seeing thou hatest Instruction ▪ and castest my Words behind thee , psal. 50. 16. Thou givest thy mouth to evil , and thy tongue frameth deceit ; But I say that Covenant in which Adam was with God in his innocency , and in his image , he stood in that , and by that , by which he was made a living Soul , and in that was in unity and Covenant with God , for the disobedience of which he was driven out from God into the Earth ; and none was under the Law of Works , neither was that Law added until there was transgression which it was added because of ; but that which is innocent , and without sin , unreprovable in Gods sight , is under no Law but that which endureth for ever , which doth free from sin and death those that be in it , which is made manifest unto some since the falling from it , and which the Isles is to wait for till it be made manifest where it is not already revealed , and all who come to have right to speak of Gods Precepts and to take his Covenant in their mouths , they see and comprehend all such darkness , which doth not speak according to words of Scripture , but speaks of three Covenants contrary to Scripture , saying , that the first Covenant promiseth nothing of Salvation , nor mentioning nothing of a Saviour , and yet saith , that that Covenant is a part of Gods Word , and his Will , and pure law , ( and yet mentioneth nothing of a Saviour ) and again saith that the Moral Law , he calls of Works , which promiseth no Salvation , mentioneth nothing of a Saviour ) that this which mentioneth nothing of a Saviour , is to be a directory and rule to true believers , for the ordering of their Sanctification ( ●s it is also in Christs hand guiding them by his Spirit ) so this cannot build nor joyn together , and so time to cease building ▪ any more in confusion ; but in denyal of that false doctrine , I say , That there is but two Covenants spoken of in the Scriptures , which is a plain testimony of them without any such confusion or contradiction as the Apostles to the Hebrews , saying in that he saith a new Covenant , he hath made the first old , &c. And in the first Covenant as you may read , Heb. 9. in all these things there was Christ held out , and mentioned in the shadows and figures ; and so that Covenant which promiseth no Salvation , nor mentioneth any thing of a Saviour , that we deny ; for there is not such a Covenant in the Scriptures , — For that which said , Do this and live ▪ promised life , and mentioned Christ who is the life , and by Christ who is the life and light of men is that Covenant fulfilled , and by his power both the obedience and life is brought forth , of which that Covenant speaketh and the new Covenant being come that God hath promised , wherein he hath put his Law in their hearts , and his Spirit in their inward part , and all such needs not to come to such Priests to be taught , who tells of a Covenant which promiseth no Salvation , nor mentioneth any thing of a Saviour ; for we , who be in the second ▪ know the first fulfilled , which Christ was held forth in under Ordinances of Divine Service , and a worldly sanctuary , and divers washings , and carnal Ordinances which never made the comers thereunto perfect as pertaining to the Conscience ; but now is Christ the Covenant of God , and Covenant of light come and preached , and with his light shineth in mens Conscience that he may make perfect as pertaining to the Conscience , which Covenant is now witnessed among thousands ( and such denyed which speak of a Covenant that mentions nothing of a Saviour , and that to be the rule of true believers . ) Again , in John Stelhams 5th head of Scripture Contradiction , he speaks concerning Sin , saying , That the more a Soul is sanctified , the more he sees his moats to be beams ; and that Paul was groaning and sighing all his life time under the body of sin and death . Both these are false : For the more a Soul is sanctified , he is not the more taught to lye , or to see falsly , but the more he is taught to see clearly , and discern a moat to be a moat , and a beam to be a beam , and knows the differance : And Paul thanks God who had given him the victory over sin and death , which he had not while he groaned under the body of it ; and so both the Saints , and the work of sanctification , is falsly accused by such , and such are to be denyed , as Enemies to God , and to his Work . In the reading of this , let all people take notice , That in the several and particular Heads of I. S. Book , where he saith , he hath contradicted us ; he is proved himself to contradict the Scriptures : and so far as he contradicts the Scriptures in those particulars , so far he may say he contradicts us , and our testimony being one with the Scriptures in them things . For in his 6 Head , as concerning Justification , he saith , He that is justified , is justified by God , not under the Aspect or Notion of a Saint , and as such ; but of a sinner , and as a sinner believing in Jesus , not as he loveth God , or overcometh the world by Faith , &c. but as believing on Christ dying , &c. Now this testimony of I. S. is contrary to the Scriptures , for God never justified any as hating of him , nor as a sinner , but as made obedient through Faith according to the Scriptures , as the Apostle witnesseth , Gal ▪ 2. 16. Even by the faith of Jesus Christ , even we have believed in Jesus Christ , that we might be justified by the faith of Christ , &c. so they believed that they might be justified and the ungodly they were first called ( out of their ungodliness ) and whom he called , them he also justified ; and they whom he justified , them he also glorified , and by him all that believe are justified from all things from which they could not be justified by the law of Moses , Acts 13. 39 and so all who are justified by the Lord , are justified from their sins , and not in them , as all shall witness who come to be justified by Christ from their iniquity . And whereas I. S. would set the law and justice of God at a difference with the Gospel , and as contrary , in saying , the law and justice finds us , and leaves us sinners ; Gospel and Mercy declareth , and pronounceth us righteous : now the one pronouncing a man righteous and the other pronounce the same to be a sinner ; these two are contrary : but the Scripture hath another testimony , saying mercy and truth are met together , righteousness and peace have kissed each other , Psal 85. 10. Now here is unity , here is not righteousdess , pronouncing one thing , and mercy another ; for the righteousness of God is revealed from heaven against the disobedient ; and this will not leave them disobedient , nor sinners , if ever they come to mercy : for it doth not leave them as it finds them : and so that doctrine is accurst from God , which saith , That the justice finds them sinners , and leaves them so ; and to say that Justices pronounce them sinners , and Mercy pronounce them righteous : but to satisfie all people , a few words may serve to answer the volume of that darkness and blindness given forth by him before mentioned , should a man full of words be justified , Job 11 ▪ 2. Again , Concerning I. S. in his 7. Head concerning Regeneration , saith , That the Word of God that is Preached , was never without , or besides Scripture , &c. And as in other places he hath said , That the Spirit is given by the Letter ; so here would make Regeneration to proceed from it ; which this being denyed , he concludes it had been better the Scripture had not been known , no● written . The Word and Gospel was Preached unto Abraham , without Scripture and before the Scriptures was written : and they who are Regenerated and born again , it is by the immortal Word which is able to save their Souls , which Word was before the letter was written , and who be begotten again , and born by that Word , it is profitable for such that the Scriptures was written and given forth , and the Scripture by such is honoured ; but such who calleth the letter the light , and the Word , and that which begets again into the new birth , by such both the work of God is despised , and the Scriptures perverted , and denyed . Again , I. S. in his 8. Head of Contradiction , speaking of Perfection , uttereth forth more confusion and contradiction to himself , in his speaking of the Communion of the Saints in heaven , and doth lye concerning the Saints on earth , saying , The Saints in Heaven hoped for the perfection of their bodies at the Resurrection , &c. And again contradicts that , in saying , That at death they have a final perfection , and a full harvest , and reward of peace , &c. Now this is the issue , that all people may take notice , he hath so envied perfection and Christs doctrine , which saith , Be ye perfect as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect ; and them who now Preacheth that doctrine , that he hath set out a volume to declare against the Saints being perfect here : yea , and his envie hath reached to Heaven to prove that the Saints in heaven is not perfect , but waits for the Redemption of their bodies ; which now if people mind the Scripture , there is no such doctrine in it as the Saints in heaven hath not received the Redemption of their bodies , for they who had received the first fruits of the Spirit upon earth , did wait for the adoption and for the redemption of the body , till the Creature it self be delivered into the glorious liberty of the Sons of God , and this was witnessed , and is witnessed ▪ and this is the work of the worlds Teachers instead of presenting them perfect in Christ Jesus as the Apostles did , they would make people believe that the Saints in heaven their bodies is unredeemed ; if so , where is that redemption wrought ? And whereas I. S. would make people believe that there is none clean : now Christ said concerning those that followed him , Now eyere clean , through the Word which ● have spoken unto you , John 15 3. And David saith , That the Lord is good unto such as are of a clean heart , Psal. 73. 1. And the Lord said concerning his people , That he would pour clean water upon them , and they should be clean from all their filthiness , Ezek. 36. 25. And this Prophesie was to be fulfilled : and the Lord said also by his Prophet Zeph. That his Remnant should do no iniquity , nor speak lyes , neither should a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth , Zeph. 3. 13. And Paul preached wisdom among them that were perfect ; and as many as were perfect should be so minded , and Christ preached to the pure in heart that they should see God , Matth. 5. Now if there were none perfect , Christ preached unto such as there was not . Now this is the chief ground of I. S. and the rest of the enemies of truth and of perfection , to declare against it because some fall from it , as his instance of C. A. or others in the like : To which I answer , Their falling into that which is not perfect , doth not make that which they fall from imperfect , for the Angels that kept not their first state , which was perfect , did fall from that which was perfect : A virgin state is perfect , but if any go out of that state , and become foolish , yet that which they depart from is perfect ; and if any do fall from the truth , and do not abide in Christs doctrine , that doth not make his Doctrine to be unperfect ; for Christ saith , Except they abide in him , who is perfect , they cannot bring forth fruit : is not he that is in Christ perfect , though some do not abide in him , and is not the truth , truth , because some deny it ? Was not Christs Doctrine and the Apostles true , because Demas did forsake it , and love the present world : and was not that part of the Ministry which Judas had committed unto him perfect ? and was not he the true Christ that Judas preached , though afterwards he betrayed him ? now if people do but truly consider all those that now do turn from the way of truth , which is now preached , and lived in by us , it may be an evident token to justifie us in the way of truth , seeing what they go into when they go from the light which Christ hath enlightened them withall , which while they abide in it , are kept out of all filthiness of fl●sh and spirit : and so long they may speak of perfection , and of the gift of God which is perfect ; but if any go from the light , then they are let at liberty to act all uncleanness with greediness , and so are cast out from us , and from perfection : and if any such deny the truth , and forsake it , yet there remains in them a withness for the truth , and against their own uncleanness , as in C. A. who from the witness of God in him , was made to confesse that if he had continued in the light of Christ , he could not have so sinned against the Lord , and so by his transgression fell from the way of life , and could not continue in Christs Doctrine no longer : and so such things may satisfie people concerning the way of truth : for while they are of us , all such things is denyed by them : but when they go out from us , then they become Drunkards , Swearers , Prophane , Adulterers , Fornicators , and so every evill Work is committed , and then they turn to the Priests Doctrine , where all such things are , and are excused : and then the Priests rejoyce and give thanks if any turn from the light of Christ , and the obedience of the Gospel into Drunkenness and Prophaneness again , where they were before , and if they will but swear and respect mens persons , and use the rod of violence , and persecute , and shed the blood of the Innocent , and be conformable to the World , that is the Priests rejoycing ; and if any turn from the truth into any act of uncleannesse , then they take that as a proof against those that abide in the truth : and such a thing is a better proof to them then all the Scriptures ▪ and those are they that re●oy●● in ●niquity , and watch for evill , and so they rejoyce in that which we have ●ast out as abomination ▪ and these are they that plead for a life in sin while they are here , and that say that the Saints glorified in Heaven do yet hope for the Resurrection of their bodies , and so not come to the end of their hope though in Heaven , whenas the Saints upon earth Witnessed the end of their hope , the salvation of their souls . Now these may well deny perfection on earth , who deny it in Heaven , which the Saints , we , and the Scriptures do witnesse it in both , and against all such who are not fit to speak of the things of God . Again , In his 9th Head of contradiction he speaks of a Wa●far ( which yet he himself never came unto , ) and in it he wrests Pauls words , and so would turn the truth into a lye , saying , as if Paul should say thus : If sin that wars and fights in me hath no power to condemn me , then there is no condemnation to me : which words Paul never spake , and it is a lye in the ground , for it is not sin that is the condemnation , but the light which lets men see their sins , because men love darkness rather than the light : as many in this age have manifested themselves to do , and the light shall be their condemnation who are not yet come to the War , nor to the Victory which the Scripture speaks of . Again in his 10th Head of Contradictions speaking of Repentance , as if he would prove that we denyed , or disclaimed godly sorrow , and his proof is this : If we disclaim in ▪ dwelling sin in the godly , we disclaim godly sorrow . Let all people take notice of this , If we deny in-dwelling sin , we deny godly sorrow : this is contradiction in the highest degree ; but against it , this I shall affirm , that none comes unto godly sorrow , but they deny dwelling sin , and they that do not deny in-dwelling sin , denies godly sorrow . Again , John Stelham in his 11th Head of Contradictions to the Scripture , in his speaking of the Word , and means of Grace : he is setting up that which before he hath been pulling down , in page 123. where he saith : That they are justified from all legal obligations , and conditions of their own workings both within them , and without them . And in page 174. he is setting up Obligations and conditions of Reading , Hearing , Prayer , Preaching , to which he saith , life and salvation is promised : and so would have salvation come by Works , which he hath so much declared against before , and so makes Prayer , Reading , Preaching , &c. not only the means through which salvation comes , but the cause for which they are saved , saying : To prayer is promised salvation . Now to the informing of minds of people , I say , That all promises are to the Seed , and the fulfilling of the promises , is witnessed through its obedience to Christs command , and through the works of righteousness : but none can pray so as to be heard of God and accepted , but who have first known , heard , and believed him whom they call upon , which none do but who own the light which Christ hath enlightened them withall , which teacheth to Pray , Hear , Read , and Preach with knowledge and understanding . Again , I. S. in his 12th Head concerning Baptisme , would go about to prove the sprinkling of Infants to be the Baptisme , and so denyes both Iohns who was from , and Christs , and the manner of them , and sets up another which the Scripture doth not mention , as sprinkling Infants , which who reads his Books may see his proofs : by consequences would have the Scripture speak that which in never mentioneth in plain Precept ▪ and so would turn the truth into alye , and so by his own rule in the 68th page of his Book shall he be judged : Such Messengers as speak more then is in the Scripture are not sent by Gods Spirit ▪ nor guided by him to what they say . But that all people may come to a right understanding of the Scriptures , and that which is testified by them , is to come to the light which Christ hath enlightened them withall , which light was before Ordinances was , and which light gives to see the place of Ordinances , and their time wherein they are to be obeyed , for the light comes from the substance of all the divers washings , and carnall Ordinances , and it leads into the one Baptisme which is the substance of that of Water which Iohn who was a Prophet was the Minister of , and Christ said unto his Disciples , Iohn verily baptizeth with Water , but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost , and with fire ; but he never commanded them to baptize with Water , but commanded them to go teach all Nations , baptizing them into the name of the Father , Son , and Holy Ghost : and although some of the Disciples , and Paul for a time did Baptize with Water : yet who shall judge their permission in it , although Paul an Apostle of Jesus Christ witnesseth , that he was not sent to baptize , but to preach the Gospel , 1 Cor. 1. 17. and thanks God that he had baptized no more of them , yet witnessed that they were all Baptized with one Spirit into one Body . And I. S. saith , To be against Infants Baptisme , is contrary to Acts 2. 28 , 29. This is false , for that Scripture doth not command it , nor give president for it ; let the Reader search if he find any such thing , as the Scripture proving Infants Baptisme , but the promise is to as many as the Lord shall call , and so he hath foully belyed the Scripture , for if that Scripture be contrary to such who are against Infants Baptisme , then must he prove from that Scripture Infants Baptisme to be commanded as practised , which he cannot do , and so is a perverter of the Scripture , and it is truth that we do deny brain imaginations , and sprinkling Infants with water ; but then he rambles over many Scriptures , proving the Baptisme of Believers ; these proofs are impertinent , what is this to prove Infants Baptisme ? so that is passed by here , as making arguments against Believers Baptisme , except one professing that were our present adversary , but in this he is pursued from all the Scriptures ; he cannot prove in justice that ever Infants Baptisme was either commanded , or practised , though he craftily wind about never so much in his Imaginations and consequences . And in the general I answer : Much by us have been written and spoken to this purpose , so our judgements in this charge is fully known , of which we are not ashamed before men , as being fully justified herein in the sight of the Lord ; and so as to this particular more need not be said . Again in the 12th Head of Scripture , Contradiction as he saith concerning the Lords Supper ▪ I. S. makes much ado because of our denyall of carnall Inventions , and Imitations practised by many in the exercise of that called the Supper of the Lord , though with one heart and mind we say , and witness that Christs flesh and blood is our meat and drink , and none hath life in them without it ; yet doth receive it in the Spirit and power of God , and doth bear our testimony against Imitations , and false likenesses set up in the World , as the Wicked and Prophane people , such as live in pride and wickedness , and covetousness , both teachers and people , eating a little Bread ▪ and drinking Wine so many times a year in such a form and manner , and way as Christ nor his Apostles never practised such things in , and no change wrought among people but both before and after ( if not in the very time ) fulfilling all wickedness and unrighteousnesse in words , and wayes , and thoughts ; yet by false suggestion from their Teachers , believing vainly themselves to be the better , or Saitns for the practice of such things , whereas they do the more thereby vex the Lords soul , and grieve his Spirit by hypocrisie and deceit : this we call carnal Inventions , and doth deny it in the presence of the Lord that it is evill , and not accepted of God , but condemned in his sight . I. S. proves not that any thing which Christ instituted to be practised among the Saints only , even was practised in the World among such who are not called , neither sanctified , and this is abomination to the Lord , to practise the Saints words , or wayes , and have not the Spirit of the Father , which we cannot see among the people of this Age , no nor manage them professing to be selected Church members , but pride and envy abounds among them all ; and in that spirit of disobedience in which they live to the Ordinances of Christ , they have no right to practise that which only is to be practised among them that have the Spirit of the Father and nothing that Christ instituted for his Saints do we deny in its life and age , but lives are changed , and Antichrist hath roled , and even the things which once he instituted your practise of them who are poluted , are abomination to him ; and this is a full Answer in generall , as to the thing , though I pursue h●m not in every particular word , and argument , to lay open his folly : but our judgement in this is known , he that can receive it let him , and the belief of the wicked we shall not begg : in these things we are approved of God , and in the denyal of all false Imitations , and who is he that shall condemn . In the 14th ▪ Head concerning Prayer ▪ Concerning Prayer we do not contradict the Scripture in our practice , I. S. is the lyer herein , who hath made it a subject to treat two leaves upon : for praying in the Spirit , and by the Spirit , and in publick and private too we own , and do practise , as is known to thousands : our enemies can witness for us , and according to the Scripture too , and not contradicting to it any way : but this is the offence against him at which he is troubled : that we should deny the prayers of the Pharisees , or of such who are in the steps of the Pharisees , viz. who for a pretence make long Prayers , and stands praying in the Synagogues , who are out of Christs , and the Apostles Doctrine , and the prayers and practises of such , we do not deny according to the Scripture , ( which saith ▪ ) the sacrifice of the wicked are abomination to the Lord : and they shal receive greater condemnation who makes long prayers for a pretence , as it is manifest concerning many in this Generation , ( and against the praying of the Hypocrites , and of hirelings , who pretends to pray in love to Souls , when as if they had not a great sum of mony from the people , would not pray among them , but seek a place to pray at , among such who wou●d give them money , and hire , and this praying is for a pretence , and we do deny it in publick , ( and doth not offend God herein , ) though we vex I. S. hereby , because some will not worship the beast , and bow a hat off , while he is praying in an Idols Temple , which he complains of in I. P. though he himself that prayes have a Cap on ▪ ( and himself confesses ) not wicked mans prayers are accepted publick or private : and here he hath condemned all his own praying , who confesses he is wicked , and sinfull , and his heart is old and lying ; Let all take notice of this , which if he had not confessed it , it is sufficiently proved : then why shall he ever hereafter be offended , seeing his prayers are not accepted , according to his own confession , if any tel him so , or declare against his praying , and before any can truly pray , they must receive the Spirit of the Father , ( and them we know who are not led by the Spirit of the Father ▪ ) them and their prayers are to be declared against by the Saints , and are condemned in the sight of God . And I. S. saith , If this counsel be followed , viz. waiting in the Light , till the Spirit leading be known , it makes known nothing of Publick Ministers , Church officers , Baptisme , Lords Supper ▪ publick order of prayer , nor of Christ as Mediator ▪ nor of the Spirit of promise , &c. The light that every man hath makes manifest nothing of this he sayeth ( he in this is a Lyar , and slanderer of the people of God ) who are led by the moving of the Spirit in the light of the word Christ Jesus that lighteth every man , and owneth the publick Ministry of Christ , which is received by the holy Ghost , and Church , and Baptism , and Christ as Mediator , and the Spirit of promise : and all these thing ▪ ( all the Saints upon earth who have the spirit of Christ shal witness against I. S. herein to be a lyar of the light and Spirit of God , and so is a transgressor , and his wickedness may largely be laid open , but the least of the children of light may see his folly , and madness ▪ who also lyingly saith , that Quakers they nourish up people in the light that every man hath , ( which is the light of Christ Jesus ) in opposition to Scripture light : this is also utterly false ▪ and a lye , and the author proved to be of the Devil , for the light of Christ leads up in the fulfilling of the scripture , and not in opposition to it ; but by his lightness and lyes he is made manifest to be a d●c●iver of the people , and so take thy own words in thy conclusion to thy self , thou art he that is a ienated from the Scripture , and from the Spirit of God also by thy lying spirit of Contradict●on , which is manifest in thy writings . In his 15th Head concerning singing . We do not contradict the Scripture : ( herein again thou art a lyar , ) but singing with the Spirit , and with understanding , we own of such as are redeemed out of the World , and are not of the world ▪ but singing of Davids experiences , sung in the World ; by such who are of the World , this singing we do deny as it is practised in this Generation , in Rhyme and Meeter , in a vain multitude of people , where all , or most of them do dishonour God in singing Davids words , which themselves are out of the life of , and in a life quite contrary , singing the law of God is dear to them , and that they exercise themselves in it , when every moment of time they are exercised in Wickednesse , and casts the Law of God behind them , and thus singing lyes ▪ and that which is not true to them , yet in the name of the Lord . Other Reasons many may be given why we deny singing in this Form , and manner , and way , as singing is practised in this Generation : but this Instance is sufficient to all honest people , but Cavellers mouths are not soon stopped , not by the truth : and all I. S. professes as to maintain this manner and practise of singing , are all impertinent : he proves that the Saints sang , and were exhorted to it , but what is this to the purpose to prove the World must sing who are unconverted , which singing we oppose only , and not the Saints singing in the Spirit , who are moved to it by the Spirit . O thou Lyar , wherefore dost thou say , To be against singing Davids words ( by the world in Rhyme and Meetre ) as we do ▪ is contrary to Eph. 5. Col. 3. doth these Scriptures hold forth any such thing , let the Reader try , as that Davids experiences may be sang in the World in Rhyme and Meetre , nay they do not ; and so thou art a lyar on the Scriptures , to be taken notice of , and marked for a wrester of the Scriptures , and in this we have often declared our minds by words and writings , that Poetry , and I. Hopkins , and T. Sternolds brain invention we have denyed : yet Davids Psalms we have owned , and do own them , as they were given forth by the Spirit of God , and not as they are perverted , and added , and diminished to such a compass of syllables as they are now in practise ; and thus I have given you a further testimony for , and against singing , wherein we deny it , and wherein we own it , and so leaves his muddy stuff , and so counts it not worth raking in , only a Lye , or two , or more he is proved in , as the Reader may take notice also of one thing more , where he charges R. F. falsely , to speak falsehood for saying the Priests of Eug. they teach people to sing , lyes in hypocrisie , this they do , and do wickedly in it , and he hath added to their wickedness in denying it to be so : for to all people without exception they give to sing ; I am not puft in mind , nor hath a scornfull eye , and they making not exception in giving forth their Psalms to sing : ( some that they give it forth to are puft in mind , and have scornfull eyes , and these they teach to sing Lyes in hypocrisie to any honest man ; this appears true , let I. S. shuffle and twist never so much . In the 16th Head concerning Elders , and Ordination . We do not herein contradict the Scripture , but witnesseth forth according to it , that who are moved by the Spirit of God to watch over the Flock , and ordained with gifts thereunto , may take the oversight of the Flock wittingly , and of a ready mind , and not by constraint , nor for filthy lucre sake , as I. S. and his Generation of false Teachers , who preach for hire , and for gifts , and rewards : such are not ordained of God to watch over the Flock , but runs and was never sent , and therefore shall not profit people at all , and such an ordination we d●●y ▪ who are ordained at Schools , or by naturall arts and sciences to speak their brain-study by a glass , this is by man , and not of God , and God doth deny it , and we testifie against it by the Spirit of God , and doth say , the call to the true Ministry and Eldership is not by man , nor of man , but by the Lord , according to Gal. 1. 1. yet such a one is approved of all the Saints , and goes forth not contrary to men , who feareth the Lord , for the spirit of life is one in them that are called and ordained by it , and in them that beareth witness to truth what doth such approve with the Spirit , that are called by the Spirit : this is our judgement , and the judgement of truth , whatever I. S. or any of his fellows raise up to oppose it ; and herein we do not contradict the Scriptures , he is that lyar , in the subject matter on which he treats in the Title of his Section . In his 17th Head concerning Ministers Maintenance . Concerning this we do no way contradict the Scripture ▪ but witnesseth according to it , that the Ministers of Christ doth receive freely , and gives freely of what they have received from God , and having planted a vineyard , may eat the fruit of it , and keeping a flock , may eat of the milk of the flock : and when they go into a house , may eat such things ●● are set before them , and yet may not be chargeable to any man , and this is according to Christs instructions , and not contradictory to the Scriptures , though I. S. be pleased to so stile it , but all such who preaches for hire , or takes hire for preaching , and seeks for their gain , ( for 50 l. or 60 l. per a●num ▪ or the like ) from their quarter ( a Parish or Town ) and such who take Ti●hes , Gifts , and Rewards for preaching , which people should not give them except they p●eached , and such who have sums of money , and lives in pleasures and vanities , and lust ▪ and fulness of the Flesh , as the Priests of England doth , ( this maintenance we do deny ) and them that act those things , we deny to be Ministers of Christ , or that any Maintenance by way of a Ministry doth belong to such who are greedy dumb doggs , and can never have enough as Isai 56 ▪ such practises and men we oppose , and doth no whit contradict the Scripture , but it witnesseth to us herein , and against all such , and therefore I. S. and his Brethren the Independants who acts such things , they contradict the Scripture , and so are truly guilty themselves in action of what they falsely accuse us in words for such who walks in the steps of the false Prophets , as he and they doth that preach for hire , and takes Gi●ts and Rewards for preaching , are contrary to all the true Ministers of Christ , and the Scripture , and the Spirit that gave it forth condemns them : and much as to this we have publickly spoken , and written , and so here I need say the lesse , though much might be said to manifest I. S. folly and vanity though they that plant a vineyard may justly eat the fruit thereof : yet what is this to purpose , he is a thief that eats of the fruit of that which he hath not planted , but is hired thither for so much per Sermon , or per annu● , and plants nothing for the Lord , and he that preaches the Gospel may live of it , but this shames I. S. and this Generation of Teachers , who many of them might begg bread at peoples doors , had they not a Law by violence to compell maintenance from them ; which thing is a very shame to all righteousness which is practised by most of the Priests of England at this day , grievous to be related what unjust proceedings are acted upon the poor people by unjust judgements against them for to maintain Ministers , so called ; what is the thing that I. S. pleads for ? ( Tithes , or a hundred , or two hundred pound a year ? he is a Lyar to say that we contradict the Scripture , because we cannot uphold this , but must bear witness against it , so whilst he falsely charges us with contradicting the Scripture , in the very same thing he and his Generation are found in this practise contrary to all the Ministers of Christ that ever was sent by him , and in the very practice of the Deceivers , Antichrists , and false Prophets , in making merchandize of people through covetousness , in preaching for hire , and in seeking for their gain from their quarter , and this is the very truth , let I. S. and all his fellows read their own contradiction , to the example of all the Ministers of Christ in their cursed practise of maintenance , which is the greatest oppression this day in England : and this is their grief against us , because God hath opened our mouths to declare against them , and to shew their folly and wickednesse unto all people : and when the Law of the Land ceases to maintain them , which will come sooner then they expect , then may they begg their bread , or perish for want , and that is all the fruit that their vineyard of wild Brambles will bring forth to them , and if every particular of his words should be searched , much rottenness might be let forth : but in plainness I have spoken , as to the truth of things in pleading for truth , and in denying his deceits , and the oppression of hirelings , which I cannot call Ministers maintenance . His 18th Head concerning immediate Calling . In this we do not contradict the Scipture , I. S. is a Lyar herein also ; but we say such as are called of God , are called by his Spirit , and lead with it , and fulfills the will and work of God in the Spirit , and such as are called by the Spirit of God , are appoved by all the Saints of God ▪ who with the same Spirit bears witness to such as are called by it , and speaks by it ; the Ministry of God is not of Man , nor by Man , but by the revelation of Jesus Christ , which is not learned by natural arts , but received in the Holy Ghost , and this the Scripture bears witness to , ( but the Call to the Ministry , by naturall learning at Oxford and Cambridge , this I deny , and trample upon , and all your arts ▪ and knowledge , and humate study ▪ and languages , is not able to make a Minister of Christ , ( this I do affirm , ) though they approve one another , yet are they not approved of God without his Spirit , and they that have his Spirit denyes naturall learning , as to be made a Minister of Christ hereby ▪ and E. B. his words are owned , transcribed by I. S. cited page 16. in the warning ▪ &c. and all that he saith doth not prove that any of the Ministers of Christ were called by the Church , or approved unto that work of the Ministry , by them who were not called by the Spirit , and guided with it ; he saith , the sending of God is two-fold , and for this he hath no Scripture to prove it ▪ and so holds forth that which the Scripture will not evidence : And further he saith , he pretends to no such Call of an Apostle ; if he have not the same Call , by the same Spirit as the Apostles had , he is no Minister of Christ , and in measure he hath confessed to be without the same Call , as the Apostles was called with , and will not pretend such a Call . Again , He falsly Charges R. F. with Crucifying the Ministers of Christ : which is a Lye , and of the Devil , though none of us may spare to call Hirelings , greedy dumb Doggs , and devourers , and lazy sheperds , and in this we do not contradict the Scriptures , nor work offence towards God , nor our neighbour : And he concludes , Who of us ( we or they ) shall have the worst of it in Conclusion , the day shall declare : unto that day we are willing to come , by which we , and all the blind Priests of England shall be manifest ; and we know Liars , such as I. S. shall not have the better , who is to us made manifest already to be out of the way , and out of the power , and life , of God . His 19th Head , concerning immediate Teaching . In this we do not contradict the Scripture , as I. S. falsly charges us withal , but doth say ( that we are taught of God ) and needs no man to reach us , but as the anointing of God , which abides in us , and the promise of God is fulfilled upon us ▪ Jer. 31. we are all taught of God from the least of us to the greatest , with whom the Covenant of God is established , and this is the cause wherefore we let forth our selves to the world , who are yet in the unconverted state , that they also ma● come to the knowledge of the wayes , and teachings of God in the Spirit , and may come into the Covenant of peace , where none need to say , know the Lord , but all these are taught of him , ( yea and immediately too ) by his Spirit , and this we do witness , and the Lord doth witness with us , though the unbelieving heart of I. S. and his fellows ▪ cannot believe it , but doth gainsay it , as being contrary to the Scripture , when as themselves doth contradict the Scripture in denying it , so proving themselves guilty of what they do accuse us of falsly , but this is that their folly may appear to all men , as it doth to us , and I. S ▪ hath belyed the Scriptures , Dan. 9. 1. & 1 Tim 4. 14. in saying it is contrary to those Scriptures , to say the teaching of God is immediate , let the Reader try , and I. S. saith , he is yet to learn the promise of the immediate teachings of God , to be given to all that are to teach others , and this doth make it manifest , that himself is without the promise of God , and is not yet taught of God , and so without Gods Covenant , being not learned in the teaching of God by his Spirit , which is immediate . And thus to confound truth , he hath by his confession , shamed himself , and shewed himself to all men , to be unlearned in the doctrine of Salvation . Further , he saith , If God had intended to have given teachings immediately without any medium ▪ then would he not have sent Preachers abroad for them to hear : mark this man● blind productions , and what impudence is in his heart , who holds forth , That God intended not the thing to be what he promised should be , he promised to teach his people himself ; and this man holds forth , that he intended it not , and so hath no less than charged God with Hypocrisie ( let the Reader mark this ) but this is the ground wherefore the Ministers and Preachers were and are sent abroad , to bring all people to be taught of God by his Spirit , and to inform their minds , to the gift of God in them , that by the Spirit received the knowledge of , they might know the things of God , which is not known but by the Spirit of God , which all that are Children of God are led and guided by , and they that are not led with the Spirit of God , which Spirit is immediat , ( are not the heirs with Christ ) nor none of his ▪ let I. S. say what he will , or may ; this we believe , and this the Scripture gives testimony of for us , and with us . Yet further , to manifest his folly , he saith , It is erroneous enough , and contradictious to the whole Scripture , when R. F. truly tells him , and saith , Thou that art not taught of God , shewes that thou speaks a vision of thy own heart , and not from the mouth of the Lord : let the Reader search where the errour and contradiction to the whole Scripture lyes in these words , or whether he hath not proved himself blind and ignorant , and in errour , and contradiction to the Spirit of God . Further , he saith , Never did any but God slayers , and Spirit-wounders , go about to separate the Word of God , and his breath : Now let this be considered , Christ did tell them ( the Pharisees ) who had the words , which God had spoken by the Prophets , that they had never heard the voyce of God ; here he divides or separates betwixt the words and the voyce ( or breath ) and was no God-slayer , nor Spirit-wounder , as thou hast wickedly and blasphemously laid down thy Position , where thou hast concluded , Christ to be one against whom thy words are laid down : let the Reader prove thy doctrine . His 20th Head , concerning Questions . In this we do not contradict the Scripture , I. S. is taken with a lye in his mouth , who hath made it a subject to treat upon , ( for Questions in their places we own ) but such as are of the Devil we deny , as Christ did who shewed himself as a sool unto all mens wisdom , when the subtil Pharisees and others tempted him , who would not answer their crafty Questions , though them that questioned insimplicity , he did to resolve and satisfie them , and inform them into the knowledge of the Father . Then some leaves he hath filled with producing some of our Queries out of some of our Books , Commenting thereupon , and would prove them ignorant , and unprofitable , and the like , but it had been more just , and of a better report for him to have answered them , and shewed them to be ( as he saith of them ) to all people , rather then in a manner backbited them , and reproached them , and not shewing wherein it lyes ; and if they be so needless , and vain a● he saith , then the sooner had such a wise man ( as he thinks himself ) I. S. confuted them by sober and plain answers ▪ but what if our folly in the sight of men be wisdom in the sight of God , and his wisdom foolishness with God ? no matter what he say of us , who hath shewed himself already , and confessed truly that his heart is old , and lying , and sinfull : so we can expect no better judgement from his Pen then what is in his heart ; but while we are approved in the ●ight of God , we matter nor what men say of us , especially one that hath set himself to be our enemy , and the Lords enemy , and I leave the honest sober Queries to be read , which he hath falsely branded with Pride and Ignorance , and such like , ( as this ) what rule have you in scripture for putting off the Hat ? ( this is an honest question ) which he wickedly slanders with pride , ( and whether is your Gospel free without charge as the Apostles was , yea or no ; these and such other questions he rails against to be Ignorant , and quarrelous , and vain , and of the devil ; now it had been more honest to have confuted them in answering discreetly , then to have thus branded them . And he saith , It is one thing to take hire for preaching , and another thing to preach for hire , whereby his scope is to excuse himself may be , and his Brethren , ( who are hirelings , ) and would not be counted to preach for hire , though he dare not deny , lest all men should see his folly ) ▪ but that they have hire for preaching ; but then let him tell us when , or where ever any of them preached , and had no hire , and then we will believe they preach not for it , but such as receives sums of money of one man , or a country which would not be given him , except he preached to them ▪ this same man is a hireling , and preaches because he hath hire , and hath hire because ( that the ground ) he preaches . Further , he saith , Christs righteousness which justifies a believing sinner is not the essentiall righteousness of his Godhead , and here he hath spoken ignorantly , and held forth as if there is two righteousnesses of Christ , which I call for a proof from him for , else let him confess to his shame that he hath added to the Scripture , for the righteousness of Christ is but one , by which all the Saints are justified . Further he saith ignorantly enough , that which is done according to the bare letter of the written command , or from a gift of the Spirit , or in a Gospel way from a living principle of grace , acts of holiness by the holy Spirit , and Faith given stirred up , this is a righteousness of ours saith he , and seems to separate it from the righteousness of Christ , as he holds forth , let men behold his ignorance . Further he saith , though it be wrought by the strength of Christ in us , yet as to Justification Paul would not be found in it ; ( this ) for a word , ( mark again Reader ) canst thou see any thing here but ignorance , as if Paul were justified by another Christ then what wrought in him , to will , and to do . Further he saith , Paul counted all things but losse and dung , even what he had done , or suffered since conversion , that he might win Christ . Mark again , what was the converting of many hundred of souls by Paul , and many other works of God wrought by him but dung and losse so I. S. holds forth ; this is Ignorance indeed , he hath shewed his Ignorance by what he hath said , and not proved in any thing , that concerning questions we contradict the Scriptures . His 21th Head concerning Civill Honour . In this we do not contradict the Scripture by arguments nor practise ▪ but doth honour all men in the Lord ; and cannot respect mens persons , nor have them in any admiration for any advantage ; yea we honour men in reproving them in their unrighteousness ; and I. S. pleads much for civil honour : the Scripture speaks not of Civil honour , and the question is , what this honour is that he calls civill ? and wherein it may be done , and not in transgression nor in respect of persons , Magistrates is to be honoured by subject on to their just commands , requests and laws , and by patient suffering under their corrupt Laws , and evill commands , and not resisting evill : yet the person of no man is to be respected , for he that doth commit sin , and is a transgressor of the law of God , and Ministers of Christ are to be respected for their works sake , and they desire no honour nor praise of men , but knows reproach and infamy is their respect from the men of this Generation : and as for hirelings & deceivers , they are respected of the world , but condemned of God , and of his Saints , and testified against , and Parents are to be respected in the Lord by their children , and Masters by their servants : but where God commands one thing , and Parents or Masters another , as it often comes to pass , in Christs time , as it doth now , whether to give respect to God or man , this I leave to be judged by sobe men that makes conscience of what they say ; and thus in short I give ▪ a testimony how we honour , and would have all honoured in the Lord , and leaves I. S. long discourse to himself and his company , and doth bear witness against the vain superstition , and foolish customes of this Generation . His 22d Head concerning Swearing . In this we do not contradict the Scripture , but saith and practiseth according to Christs words , Swear not at all , which is spoken absolute , and without condition , and mitigation ( and he saith ) we take these words of Christ against his meaning , and this is false and wicked too in I. S. who would he seen to hold forth , that when Christ said , Swear not at all : he meant not as he spake , ( for both Christ and the Apostle James were righteous in what they delivered concerning Swearing ) who forbids all manner of Swearing , no cause excepted , and we take Christs words according to his mind ▪ and doth deny all Oaths , and abides in Christ , and the Apostles Doctrine , and our yea is so ▪ and our nay is so , and whatsoever is more cometh of evill , and I. S. would plead for swearing before a Magistrate ( but that Magistrate which fears God ) and loves his way will believe a man sooner that cannot swear for conscience sake then he that makes no conscience of Swearing , and such a one is liker to testifie lyes with Oaths , then he that for conscience sake denyes Oaths ; and in his conclusion he saith scholastically ( though Ignorantly ) they that will not expound Scripture by Scripture , and compare the precepts and examples for Swearing without prohibition against it , fall into Scripture contradiction , but R. F. nor others will , ( therefore &c. this is unsound , and laid down , but not proved at all , neither major , nor minor , and here by he hath concluded wickedly : the Apostle Iames , and Christ himself to be fallen into Scripture contradictions who did expresly forbid all swearing , and did not compare the precepts and examples for Swearing , with the prohibition against it : and thus I. S. is taken uttering folly with his tongue , and hath drawn a conclusion upon Christ , and the Apostle Iames to be contradictors of Scripture , let shame cover his impudent forehead . And they that charges Christ , and the Apostle Iames with contradicting Scripture , are enemies to God , and of the devil , and for eternall vengeance : but I. Ste●ha● hath done so , and therefore he is an enemy to God , and of the Devill ▪ and for eternall vengeance . But further at large , as concerning Swearing , and our testimony thereof , is laid down at large in a Book called , The glory of the Lord arising . And whereas further , I. S as a man not weary of iniquity , goes on after his false charging of us with Contradictions to Scripture , charges us again , That we contradict our selves in many things ; which Accusation we bear with as much patience as we do his former , seeing they are all out of one heart , and to the same end ; for it is a small thing for us to be judged by man , and so that wherein he charges us with self-contradictions , I pass lightly over , having cleared the truth , that we do not contradict the Scriptures ; but if this man I. S. had been in generations past , what would he have said of Isaiah who was sent to tell Hezekiah from the Lord , That he should die , and not live ; 2 King 20 ▪ 1. At the same instant of time the Word of the Lord came again to Isaiah , that Hezekiah should be healed , and that he should go up to the house of the Lord : These were both the Word of the Lord to Hezekiah , and yet no contradiction in Isaiah , though such a Spirit as I. S. would so have judged : And what would he have judged betwixt David and Jeremiah , Psal ▪ 119 & the 103. and Jer. 23. 29 David saith , The Words of the Lord are sweet unto his taste , yea sweeter than the honey to his mouth : And Jer. saith , The Word of the Lord is as a fire , and like a hammer , which breaks the Rock to pieces : Now there is no contradiction in these two , not to that Spirit by which they are guided , though so it might seem to such as I. S. whose minds are dark : And what would he have judged of Christs words , Matth. 12. 30. and Mark 9. 40. where Christ said , He that is not with me is against me , and he that is not against us is with us ; and yet in these words there is not contradiction to him that hath an ear to hear : But if I. S. had been in those dayes , out of his evil heart , would he have charged the holy men of God to be contradictions to themselves , it is very like that he would , and these things I leave , with the Reader , to be considered of , for we who have the same Spirit , do clear Christ , and the holy men of God from contradictions , and knows I. S. and such as he , to be seekers of occasions against the just , and would make offences where there is none , for as I have said , we do not allow I. S. to be the interpreter of our words ▪ for then no question , but he would have his own end , and meaning ; and in I. S. saith , We deny the letter of the Scripture to be Scripture ; this is charged upon him to be a lye , as it is well known through this Nation , both in Doctrine and Conversation , we own the Scriptures ; and to deny Matthew , Mark , Luke , and Johns Declarations of the Gospel , to be Gospel , is no denyal of the Scripture ; for the Gospel was preached to Abraham , which Gospel was , and is the power of God , before these four men did Declare of it , though we deny their Writings to be the very Gospel which is the power of God , yet we do not deny , but they truly declared of the Gospel , and this is to own the Scripture as it speaks of it self to be . Let I. S. judge what he will of us , and wheras he speaks of Gospel-letters , and Scripture-Gospel ▪ the Scripture give no such names to it , but saith the Gospel is the power of God , and that is the Gospel which we Preach , even the power of God unto all people , let I. S. judge by consequence what he will . And further , he would plead for the title of Master , from the example of Abrahams servant , but this is nothing to prove the lawfulness of a Minister of Christ , that they may be called Master : for Christ saith to his Ministers , Be ye not called Masters , and the Spirit of Christ being our rule , that leads us in the fulfilling of Christs words , let I. S. shuffle as he will : Also he lyes of J. N. to say he denyes , and grants the same thing to be in the letter , for though he say he that believes hath the witnesse in himself ▪ which is truth : yet he doth not say the letter is the Believers witness , which he seems falsly to be charged withall ; and he saith the Spirit of God must give the spirituall understanding of the Scriptures ; But this he doth in another way , than that whereby he inspired the pen-men of the Scriptures . Now this is false doctrine ; For Christ the Way , the same to us , as to them , and not another way of understanding Scriptures , nor by another Spirit than that which gave them forth ; and he saith , Christ directed to himself ▪ Joh. 5 39. as revealed in the Scriptures , and more than that , as conveyed by the Scriptures to a Soul : Now let the Reader take notice and search that Scripture , Whether he hath not added to it , yea or nay ? or where any ever had Christ conveyed to them by Scriptures : it doth say the Scriptures testifies of him , but it doth not say that he is revealed in the Scriptures , nor conveyed by them to a Soul ; and this is his additional gloss to corrupt the text , to undervalue the eternal Spirit of the Father , by which Christ is only revealed , and received , and not by the Scriptures . And for E. B. to say , That he came not to them with en●icing words , neither what he had gathered from the Scripture without him , But to declare the Word of the Lord , and not to speak his own conceivings and imaginations ( this is true and no contradiction in it , though I. S. say these cannot both be true , to say , That he neither came with what he had gathered from Scripture , nor his own imaginations ▪ for the Apostles of Christ did not preach what they had gathered from Scripture , neither their own imaginations , but preached the Word and Gospel of God which they had received from God , and not gathered from Scripture , nor in their own imaginations ; and because he saith , both these negatives cannot be true , then it is concluded , that himself preaches either what he hath gathered from Scripture , or his own imaginations , and let him chuse to say whether he will ; and in the next , he will be proved a false Prophet , and that E ▪ B. compiled a Book out of Scripture , Collections , is false , for having the same Spirit which gave forth the Scripture , which brings the Scripture to remembrance , is not compiling a Book out of Scriptures ; and I. S. is found a false accuser , and E. B. neither a self Contradictor , no● self curser , and these are true words to this generation ▪ and owned with the Spirit of God , though I. S. in his scornful spirit abuse them ▪ he that hath the Word of the Lord , from the mouth of the Lord , to declare , he is reviled ▪ and mocked . But he that speaks the imagination of his own heart from the Saints conditions , he is heard and owned , and this is neither Scripture contradiction , nor self-contradiction , let I. S. judge out of his own heart what he will ; neither is this self contradiction to ask which of the Saints h●d the witness of their souls union to seek in the Letter , and yet to affirm the Spirit opens , and brings that which is spoken in Scripture to remembrance . Let I. S. first answer the query in plainness , which is an honest query , and not to imply from it his own conceptions , to make appear self-contradictions let the sober Reader judge where the contradiction lyes , and he saith the Spirit is in the letter , and goes about to prove it if he could ; if the Spirit be in the letter , then all must have the Spirit that hath the letter , and the Spirit is where ever the Bible is , which I do deny , for many hath the letter , and professes it , which knows not the Spirit , and many hath the Bible in their pocket , which hath not the Spirit there : and this will be confessed by I. S. and all his fellows , and so he must revoak , who ●aith the Spirit is in the Letter , and the Spirit gives life , but the Letter kill : In his proof he saith , The written Word , viz. the Letter is of greater authority then the Writer , ( mark here ) Christ was one of them which gave forth Scripture , and he was a greater authority then what was written : and I say , as it is plain to all honest men who can believe truth , that the holy men of God who had the Spirit were of greater authority than the Scriptures since hath been which they left behind them . But I. S. hath set Christ , and all them that gave forth Scripture to be lesse in authority then the Scriptures ; let wise men judge of this matter , he saith , They were imperfectly holy that wrote forth the Scriptures , and this is an absolute lye , for the Scriptures gives this testimony of many of them that wrote it , that they were perfect men , and he hath also slaunde●ed Christ to be imp●rfectly holy ; and in his next let him p●ove what this Imperfect Holiness is , and till then we deny there is any Holiness ●mperfect ▪ Further , he saith , The promises of the Scripture are his Chariot to convey him , ( Spirit ) whether he pleases to go ; but where is his proof for such a Doctrine ; but all that he saith doth not prove ▪ that the Spirit is in the Letter , though he say to make up the sum of his matter , Daily experiences doth demonstrate that the Spirit is in the Letter : but where is the man ? let him answer that thus hath experienced , that alwayes when he hath seen the letter , and handled the letter , hath seen and handled the Spirit , the testimony of ●n honest man I will believe , but not I. S. assertion out of his own heart . In his 2d Head of Self-contradiction . Concerning hearing the Word , this is not contradiction to say , they who are of God hear his Word ▪ and yet to deny the hearing of such as I. S ▪ who is not a Minister of the Word , but a professor of the Letter , for proud men , and covetous men , and false Acculers , such as I. S. is are we exhorted to turn away from by Paul : and this is not a denying our selves to be of God , as I. S. would charge us withall , because we deny to hear hirelings , for we hear Gods Word , and his Voice , and therefore do we deny to hear Deceivers , and this is no self-contradiction , nor saying , nor unsaying , let I. S. judge what he will , the Saints shall be my witness : and though we say that the Saints teacher cannot be removed into a corner , as saith the Scripture , and that the Saints will find their teach as they lye in their beds : both these are true , and not self-contradiction , let a sober Reader judge whether he can find contradict on in those words , but fain would I. S. have his lyes believed for truth , that he might have praise of men for his works hath gained no praise of God ; and he saith , R. F. hath proved not lyes yet against him : if it were so , let the Reader search whether there be none proved against him now : but let him not say like a Pharisee , I am no lyar , but rather let him repent of his lyes and wickednesse . His 3d Head concerning the Light within . Wherein much ado he makes , as to prove the light of Christ spoken of Jo : 1. 9 to be a natural light , and he saith the light given to all men , even that light spoken of Jo. 1. 9. is a dim light ▪ and is cold , and insufficient to Salvation , and unable to make true discovery of the true Saviour , and such like contemptible undervaluing words of the pure light of Christ , by whom the world was made , who lighteth every man in the World : and by this it is known more evidently what Spirit I. S. is of : but there is none of us who have received the knowledge of God by the very light of Christ which shines in our hearts can believe him : and this is no contradiction to say that every man is lightened by Christ with the true light , and yet to say , some men are living in a natural condition , both these are true , for some hates the light of Christ , and their deeds are evil , and such are in a natural condition ; but this doth not prove that Christ hath not given them light , though they be in a natural condition , I leave it to spiritual men to judge , though they say it seems strange , that some should live a natural condition , and yet have the light of Christ given them , saith he , as if every man brought a Saviour with him into the world . This last is his false conception , but he is mans Saviour by whose power every man is brought into the World , and if I. S. did but understand as we do , that some love the light , and some hates it : such as hates it denyes Christ : he that loves it receives Christ , who knows this strangeth not , I. S. wondring shews his Ignorance who would secretly charge us to be bewitched with a Notion , of accounting nature grace , which we do not , and it is his own condition he that conceives Lyes , believes them , and tells them , is the rather bewitched . And further , he saith the light in every man is a poor , base , beggarly scrap to the Gospel treasure ; these words are uttered in his hastiness , and without either fear or knowledge , for he that lighteth every man with the true light of life , ( or of condemnation ) is not base beggarly scraps , as I. S. saith it is , for it brings to the knowledge of the Gospel treasure and pearle , and not other light , and thus whilst he thinks to prove us self-contradictors , proves himself a villifier , and a blasphemer of Christ Jesus the Saviour of the World , who lighteth every man that cometh into the World . Again , he would make this contradiction , because we say every man in his first state is as a Beast , and yet saying every man is lightened : but this is not contradiction no more than the former is ; and then he speaks of natural conscience , and secretly charges a● if we should say it is potent and victorious at last ; but this is is a secret slander of his , for we say Christ only is victorious , and through him are we made Conquerors , and not by natural conscience : and he speaks of Gospel conviction to be above the conviction of natural conscience ; but I would know of him where the Gospel conviction works , if not in m●ns consciences ? and so in his next let him divide if he can , and shew the difference of such convictions . Further , he would say that this is contradiction to say that every man in his first birth may see himself to be natural ; and yet to say that the light which discovers natural corruptions , is not natural , but spiritual , both these are true , for the light shines in darkness , which shews the darkness , and is not darkness but light : and he that can understand that Scripture Iohn 1 ▪ 5. shall see the truth of both these to b● no self-contradiction . Further , he saith the Scriptures are a rule above the Saints light , and ●nto it , and not so , their light above the Scripture : this is confusion , and he knows not whereof he affi●ms , for the Spirit of God is the Saints rule , and that is greater than the Scriptures , and the rule of the Spirit of God is above the Scripture ; but such as I. S. who talks of Scriptures to be a rule , and yet acts these things which the Scriptures declare against ▪ are but found in deeper hypocrisie , for he that is ruled by the Spirit of God walks up in the fulfilling of Scriptures . And further , I. S. confessed , and saith this he knows , that he is more brutish then a man , and hath not the knowledge of the holy , and this is truly confessed , his own works manifest his condition to be true , and he confesses he never obeyed natural light as he ought , and as he might , and this is truly confessed : for if he had obeyed that light which he calls natural , he would not thus have stumbled at him who hath lightened every man . And further , he charges a deceit when men will put off that for redemption light which is but old creation light ; let him charge them that are guilty : but yet we say that the same is Redeemed by whom the world was created ; and this is without any deceit , and he that lighteneth every man with the light , that is but one , he is the Saviour of all that receive him in the light , and he is the condemner of all that hate his light ; and this is no self-contradiction , but the very truth as it is in Jesus . Further , I. S. would make it appear if he could that we contradict our selves concerning sin and Christ , but his whole Section I leave to be read in his Book , and let the wise Reader judge whether his proof be any such thing , only his lye will prove what he saith ; he saith , We hold Christ to be in all , this is his Lye , for we say Christ is not in the Reprobate , neither did we ever affirm that Christ is not in the Reprobate , and so is not in all ; neither do we concerning Justification contradict our selves in the Spirit of God , though so it may appeare to I. S. blind mind , and so would make it appear to others by blind arguments by his own meaning . Again I. S. would charge self-contradiction upon , because we bear witness to the New Covenant , and doth say , the children of God are taught of God , and needs no man to teach them , but as the anoynting within them , and yet doth write and print ; here he saith we condemne in others what we allow in our selves . Now to all honest people this is no contradiction , neither a condemning in others what we allow in our selves , for therefore we write , and print , and speak , that all may come to the knowledge of this thing , and may be converted to God , and know his teaching within them ; but what would I. S. have said of John who told them they needed no man to teach them , but as that within them ; and yet did write Epistles to them , very like he would have called this contradictions . And the same is our cause , who doth and must do ( though I. S. and his companions be grieved therewith ) because their folly is laid open , thereby print , and write , and speak that people through the Ministry be brought to know the teaching of God in themselves , and yet herein in the light of the Spirit of God , do we not contradict our selves , let I. S. say what he will : neither do we allow in our selves what we condemn in another , this is one of I. S. his lyes ; we allow the Ministry of Christ , yet doth not allow the Ministry of Deceivers , and yet is not in contradiction ; and this in short may give the Reader to understand the deceit , and deceivableness to lye in I. S. who is found seeking offences against us without any cause given him : and he layes snares for another , which doth entrap his own feet . And whereas he hath transcribed E. B. his confession in the warning to Vnderbarrow , which confession is still owned , and no self contradiction proved by it , for though God s●ake by G. F. to him , this doth not contradict the teaching of the Spirit of God , as that E. B. was not taught by the Spirit of God , for as I have said G. F. did minister as many doth at this day , that people should come to the teaching of God in themselves , and herein we do not contradict the Scriptures , let I. S ▪ make as many blind arguments as he can ; and that instance about I. L. being of the same nature with the former : the Answer supplyes both his proofs , neither of which doth prove us in contradiction , but is a witness to the Ministry of Christ , and to the conversion received through it , wherein we are taught of God , and needs no man to teach us , but as the anointing the Spirit of God within us , which is immediate , and yet we preach the Gospel to others , that they may come to witness the same with us , even the teaching of the Spirit of God , and for this end is the Ministry of God sent by us to bring others to the knowledge of God through it , and this is no self-contradiction , let I. S. say what he will . Further , I. S. doth instance E. B. his calling mans light natural and carnal in the Warning , &c. and would call his contradiction to some who doth deny the light of Christ to be natural and carnal , as the Priests of England terme it ; but this is no contradiction , for though w● do deny that the light of Christ Jesus is natural and carnal , and doth not allow any so to call it , yet the light of man , by which carnal men doth judge of carnal transgressions , is natural ; E. B. doth never say that the light of Christ is natural and carnal , but the light of Man is so he saith , and in this Instance there is no contradiction ; neither in any parts of the words following , which is transcribed ; and much might be said as to the occasion of those words being uttered when E. B. was in prison falsly , as many have been since , who was one of the first that by ●mprisonment was a sufferer for the name of Jesus in the North of England , before I. S. was troubled with any of us ; but it is sufficient what is said to the mans light by which carnal men judgeth of any thing , is one thing , and the light of Christ Jesus which is spiritual mens guide is another thing ; E. B. speak of mans light , and I. S. foolishly opposes him as if he spake of the light of Christ Jesus , and so opposes his own conception . And further , I. S. asserts , That Scripture light is the standing rule for faith and manners , so are not immediate revelations , and teachings . Here he hath set up the Scriptures above the Spirit of God , and above the Revelation of Jesus Christ , the Saints was led by what the Spirit revealed ▪ and taught , Christ said he should teach into all truth , and they that were the Sons of God were loved by the Spirit of God , and that was their rule to be led by in their Faith and manners : but yet see a hypocrite , ( I. S. is he ) that pleads for Scripture to be the rule , and yet is acting in many things contrary to the Scriptures , as at large may be instanced ; neither is in all the Scripture the Scripture called light , but Scripture saith Christ is the light . Further he saith , There is sufficient light in the Scripture to guide men to salvation : mark his Doctrine , whether he hath not preached another thing than Christ to be the way , and whether he hath not made Christ , and the blood of Christ of none effect , without which no salvation ▪ But he saith there is sufficient in the Scripture to lead men to salvation , and neither Christ nor his blood is in Scripture , let it be moved . Further , he saith , The Scripture was given by the Spirit for a rule ; this we desire a proof off by plain Scripture , and till then we deny it . And further , he saith , The Spirit gives out himself by Scripture : and yet he saith he never said the Scripture did give the Spirit , and this is an absolute contradiction , as may be noted so I. S. is taken in the snare contradicting himself in one quarter of a sheet of Paper , and hath not at all proved us to be self-contradictors concerning any of these things mentioned by him . Further , he saith in his 8th Head , That our possessing perfection , and Quaking after Moses example , cross shines on the other , but wherein he doth not shew , neither can the honest-minded read any contradiction in it , but only it seems I. S. hath set himself to cavell . Further , he saith , We contradict our selves concerning Quaking , and trembling , from this confession , that the same power that made Moses to quake and tremble , the same power we witness ; but wherein doth this contradiction appear in these words , let honest men try the cause , and I. S. be silent ; and whereas he Instances I. P. standing in an evill cause , and of I. P. he may be silent , whose blood he or his Generation sought after : and now might they well be quiet of him , their wills being stifled by drinking his blood as it were : but that wicked men must add to their own wickedness till it be fulfilled , that they may receive their reward , and I. P. was bold , as is the children of God ; and though I. S. would clear himself and his company from what was done to I. P. yet by the effect it appeared that there was enough envy in them towards him and the truth , and though his body be in the ground , yet the Spirit of the Lord which guided him stands alive , a sufficient witness against them , and all their cruel and wicked dealing ; and let I. S. judgement be what it will , neither concerning growth of Grace , nor forms of Religion , nor fruits of the Spirit do we at all contradict the Spirit of God ; neither doth he prove us in these things whereof he accuseth us in strife & debate , ( except against such as I. S. and the Devils Kingdom , ) neither in emulation , hatred , scoffs , or any of these things whom the Lord hath redeemed us from , though we be falsely accused in these things , as in many other by him ; and whereas he would prove their preaching in their method , and Points , and Reasons , and Uses from the example of the Saints in former ages , he falls far short in effecting his extent , for he cannot prove that they studied for what they spake , nor that in such a way they delivered what they said an hour by a glass , &c. as the Priests of this age do ; also if it were they preached in the like manner as the Apostles did , yet not by the same spirit , but by the spirit of error , and for a wrong end , that is the thing which makes their manner abominable , when as they are not guided wth the same Spirit of the Apostles , and their preaching in their method of points , and particulars is rather an art of preaching by humane policy , and not the gift of preaching by the Spirit of God ; neither do we concerning humility , and love contradict our selves , but are in humility , and love towards all men , even such as wrongs us we seek no revenge against , and herein doth our humility and love appear , yet cannot we respect any mans person with hat or knee , and that is it which I. S. I suppose is offended with . In his 13th Head concerning Ordinances . He charges us with self-contradiction , because we say we own praying , &c. and yet hath given over Family prayer , morning and evening , and at meals , but this is no contradiction : for we own praying in the Spirit of God , but doth deny it without the Spirit , and this is no contradiction ; he may as well say it was contradiction in Christ to cry against the prayers of the Pharisees , & yet to teach his Disciples to pray , and to pray himself ; this is the same cause of ours which he foolishly charges with contradiction , and as I have said the prayers of the Wicked we deny , and yet doth own Prayer in the Spirit , and who are moved by the Spirit morning or evening , or at meals , or otherwise , and this is truth let I. S. gather what he can from it . Further , he saith , If we teach one another , why do we condemn them for teaching . But to this I have answered Preaching or Teaching by the Spirit we own , and without the Spirit we deny ; and because we say we own all that which is Gods , as Baptisme , the Lords Supper , and Sabbath , &c. pet doth disown in practice their Water Baptisme , and their form of breaking of Bread and Wine ▪ and their forms of Church-fellowship , and their form of keeping a Sabbath ; this he charges to be contradiction , but it is not so in the sight of the Lord , though I. S. falsely so judge it ; for their Baptisme and breaking of Bread and Wine , and their Church fellowship , and keeping of a day , I say their exercise in these things we do deny to be of God , as in measure is proved , and may be further if need require ; and I say we own that which is Gods ▪ and which is led unto by his Spirit , and practised in his fear , and counsel , and yet we do deny all their Immitations of any thing which God commanded doth owne the command of God , and yet doth not contradict our selves , though I. S. falsely so judge of us . Further , he charges us with self-contradiction , concerning speech , and silence , because we check some for speaking , and yet speaks or writes our selves ; but this is the same with the former , and the same answer will serve , that speaking that which is not in the Spirit we check , which is not the voyce of Christ , but of the stranger , and yet doth own that which is spoken by the Spirit of God , and herein doth not contradict our selves . Further , he saith , We contradict our selves concerning Conscience and Laws ; because we say there must be no Law concerning Religion , viz. to bind any man to worship in this or the other way , and to bind him from this or that way of Worship , and yet in exhorting the Rulers that their Laws be according to that in the Conscience ; but in these words there is no contradiction , for the Laws being according to the light in every mans ▪ Conscience , that Law will not bind , or limit the Conscience from this or that way of Worship in Religion , for that Law is un ▪ just which binds or limits the pure conscience of any man ; but that Law which is contrary to the light in every mans conscience , is oppression , and we bear witness against it ; and though we do say no Law must be laid upon Religion , that it is to say , to bind any mans Conscience to or from such a form of Religion ; and though we further say that all just Laws is and should be according to the light in every mans conscience : yet in this there is no contradiction . And whereas I. S. speaks of such Laws who persecuted , prisoned , and crucified for the testimony of a good Conscience , God hath hewen down in all ages saith he : Let the Rulers of England take notice of this from the mouth of one of their Teachers . And further , I adde , so will God hew down in this Age all those Laws by which many are persecuted and prisoned , as he hath done ie other Ages ; therefore let it be considered by them . And he saith , The Magistrate is not to levell his Law with every mans conscience and light : and this he speaks in opposition to us , but he needs not , for we say the same that some mens Consciences are defiled , and we do not desire the Laws to be made according to mens several opinions , and defiled Consciences , but according to the light of Christ Jesus in every mans Conscience , which is but one in all , and is according to the Law of God , and every just Law will be according to it , and though I. S. by his own meaning would make it appear contradiction in our saying no Law must be concerning Religion , and yet saying all Laws should be according to the light of Christ in the Conscience ; Now by these words we do not mean that we would not have a Law according to Religion , but no Law to limit to or from this or that manner of Religion , and this doth very well agree with our saying , let all your Laws be according to the light of Christ ; so by his misinterpretation of the first he makes it appear to be contradictions to the second ; but it is not so in the light of the Spirit of God . And further , R. F. saying the law of God answers his Justice , and the light of Christ in the conscience answers the law of God which is perfect , according to that in the conscience ; these words I. S. charges with two errors : but let the Reader try where the error lyes , and not believe I. S. false deduction from R. F. plain words , which are simply uttered , through subtilty wrested . And I. S. speaks as if some would have Magistrates to make Laws to bind themselves from striking at offenders , Blasphemers , Gospel and Church disturbers , &c. In answer to this , we are not they that would have any Magistrates to bind themselves from striking at offenders , who are truly able to judge of offences , we own that such should be punished according to the offence , but the Magistrates Law reaches but to the outward man , to keep that in peace and good order , and not to the inward man to bind or limit that . And as for Blasphemy , and Gospel , and Church ▪ disturbing , we find many Magistrates not able to judge thereof : but many on the contrary calling truth blasphemy , and reproving of sin in Teachers and people , Gospel and Church disturbing , and so by false judgement making such offenders which are not , and so abusing their power , and condemning the Innocent rather then the guilty , and these are such as I. S. speaks of , where the strong man armed keeps the house , and these are rather a terror to well doers then to evill , and such Magistrates , and such Laws by which the just are oppressed , and the hands of the wicked strengthened will the Lord confound ▪ in a day to the glory of his name , and to the refreshing of all his people , who is now every way oppressed by evill men , both by Rulers , Teachers , and People . And as for the rest of his Book , it s but of the same nature with the former , and not worth answering to , onely his lyes I do deny , and his first following is , that all our Doctrines are raised upon the ruines of the Scriptures excellency , and authority ; this is false , neither doth his proof at all make it good . His second lye is , that our corrupt Tenents are built upon false and novel Interpretations , and this is two lyes together , our Tenents are not corrupt , neither do we build any thing which we hold upon false Interpretations . His third lye is , that it is pride that hath bred , and doth feed our opinions and practises : and this is also false , and to prove it hath wrested some of E. B. words . His fourth lye is , that unbelief begets , and procreates all our errors , and our love of error with our derisions of the truth ; here is many lyes folded up in one , which are all denyed with the life of God , and the author of them proved to be of the Devil , and we proved to be of God , who are spoken all manner of evil against falsely for the name of Jesus . His fifth lye is , that we do subtilly couch many errors under spacious words of truth : this lye also I bear Witness against , as also against his Sixth , wherein he charges us with meer ignorance , and wilful blindness about the covenant of Grace , &c. His seventh lye is , that much of mystical Babylon , and confusion is in our Writings , and wayes : this is also a lye and of the devil ; and also against his eight I bear testimony , our Doctrines and practises ends not in Apostacy , neither are they blasphemy against Christ , as I. S. impudently asserteth ; so that from the first of his Book to his last his whole Work is born witness against not to be of God , but of the devill , and in vain hath he striven , and his Work shall not accomplish any part of his desire : for the Quakers against whom he hath Written cannot be offended in Christ , though I. S. have endeavoured for to make their way and Doctrines in the sight of men abominable ; but his Work shall not prevent the purpose of the Lord , nor the gathering in of the upright-hearted from the mouths of devouring Shepheards , such as I. S. and the Priests of England ▪ who is it that doth not begin to see their deceits and abominations ? yea thousands do , and m●ny more shall do ; so that all their striving to uphold their Kingdom is but in vain , for God hath blasted al their glory , and he will teach his people himself , and govern them by his own Law and order , and the Kingdoms of this World shall be changed , and shall become the Kingdoms of the Lord , and of his Christ , and Antichrist and all his ministers shall be confounded , and the Beast and the false Prophet shall both be taken alive , and cast into the lake . Ah , John Stelham , against whom hast thou set thy self , and exalted thy horn ? against whom hast thou bent thy strength , and shot forth thy envie in crafty words of guile ? who is it that thou hast defied , and girded on thy armour against , and counted them as nothing before thy uncircumcised strength ? even against the Lords people hast thou thus done , though thou wilt not now know it , yet one day thou shalt know it , when iniquity is come to an end , and transgression finished , and thou shalt stand in thy lot at that day , and receive according to thy work a just and righteous reward from the hand of the Lord , in the day of judgement , when every secret work of iniquity shall appear to condemnation ; and in the mean time , the Lord will bring forth good unto his people , even from thy evil , and all things ( even thy evil purposes ) shail work together for good , unto such whom God hath called : and thy works and purposes which are to trouble them , and to break them , and to make them appear vile in the sight of men , even thy work doth the Lord turn , to establish them , and to unite them ; and in the sight of men , thy work against us , proves us to be of God , and thy self to be of the Devil , who was a persecutor from the beginning , and thou shalt be scattered in thy imaginations , and thy whole work hath God confounded , and it shall not accomplish any whit of that end propounded in thy sinful heart , which hath brought forth milchief , for it 's blasted in the anger of God , and men shall neither call it , nor the Father of it , any more blessed : And Friend , hadst thou known how little it doth accomplish of thy evil intent , thou would have spared thy labour , and employed thy service to another end , and then had not thy wickedness so greatly appear in the sight of God , nor thy shame and nakedness in the sight of men , as it now doth , by this thy sinful deed , brought forth of a cursed womb , and conceived in unrighteousness : Alas , alas man ! How art thou fallen into the pit which thou hast digged for another ? And how doth the shame overtake thee , which thou hast thought should fall upon us ; let thy wickedness correct thee , and know thou ▪ that the Lord will not forsake his people , who cannot be offended in Christ , though thou cast stumbling blocks of iniquity in the way , and would cause them to sin ; but even so much the more , as thou speaks evil against the way of the Lord , are they the more upright therein , and the more loving and delighting in the path of righteousness , and thou hast but the more fully discovered in many things from thy own pen , the wickedness and wrath that hath secretly lodged in thy heart ▪ and it appears that thy wisdom is devillish , and from below ; deceiving and being deceived , and thy path is in craft and subtilty , and not in innocency and plain simplicit● , and ● this manner , and by this means chiefly is thy work managed unto an evil end , but the Lord hath rebuked it , and will do yet more , till it appear to all men , as it doth to us , to be what I have said of it , and it shall be a shame to thee , and shall not receive prayse neither of God nor man , but condemnation in the sight of both ; and hadst thou known that we are established even on the top of Gods holy mountain , and cannot be moved nor shaken , by such weak pitiful blasts of confusion and ignorance , coming out of thy mouth , where poyson lodges under thy tongue , sure hadst thou known it , thou would have travelled in another path ; but that thy folly might appear unto all men , is thy work sent abroad , that they may see what lodges in thy mind , even more envie then in the heart of Balaam , and more desire of evil to the Lords people than ever , was in him ; and thou fulfils the measure of thy forefathers wickedness , till the sum be accounted , and destruction follow , thou hast too much troubled thy self , in labouring , and thy reward will not countervail thy pains ; hadst thou but only spoken against us , we should have born it , and thou might have been the more excused , but in that thou hast spoken against the light of Christ , and called it perverse Principle ▪ and many other blasphemous words of bitterness against the very truths of Jesus . This is the cause wherefore we have answered thee , and thou art utterly inexcusable ; for what thou hast done , it is not altogether through ignorance , though much ignorance be in it , but out of perfect rebellion , and purpose of mischief ; and for Mastery we do not strive with thee , but rather wisheth thy repentance , than thy destruction ; and who doth not believe but your kingdom ( I mean the Priests of England ) is going down apace , and your glory fading as a flower , and the Lord will make you a shame to your selves , who hath for many ages preyed devouringly upon the upright , and through perfect covetousness have made merchandize of Souls ; and now many hath an eye opened to see your shame , and it appears with horrible detestation ; even the saying is fulfilled , As troups of robbers wait for a man , so the company of Priests Murders in the way by consent , as the Prophet said : and as Christ said , Wo unto you , you will not enter your selves , nor suffer others to enter that world . Wherefore thou J. Stelham . even thou repent of this thy Wickedness , for the wrath of the Lord is gone forth against thee , and evill hast thou done against God , and against his people , and against thy own Soul , and this thou shalt know one day to thy exceeding sorrow , unto which time we leave thee , and could have born all thy scandalous rearms without replying again , but onely for the sake of the simple , that thy neighbours may see thy folly , and all men to whom thine and this doth come , and we have not been large , but in short , have in singleness of heart born our testimony once more to the truth of the glorious Gospel which we have received of God , and not of man , and against thee and thy sinful heart , and whatsoever proceeds out of it , for thou being evill , how canst thou speak good things , the Tree must be good before the fruit can be so , but out of thy evill heart hast thou brought forth evill , and must receive the reward of evill whether thou wilt or no ; and what if we should go about to shew wherein the Priests of England do contradict the Scripture , might not we have a large Catalogue , even in all your Worship , and in the most of your practises , acting contrary to the Scripture , and contradicting that Spirit that gave it forth in Doctrine , and in conversation in such an enterprise as this might , we make your folly sound abroad ; and as to the contradicting your selves , and being of many judgements and opinions , and difference in many particulars about the things of God among your selves herein you abound almost above measure ; and this if need require , could I by the strength of Jesus sufficiently make you appear abominable in the eyes of all just men , and so think not in thy self that you are free from Scripture , and self-contradiction , but truly guilty your selves in what thou hast wickedly accused us of falsely , which doth but prove thee to be of thy Father who is an accurser of the Brethren , and proves us to be of God according to Christs words , we are spoken all manner of evill of falsely for the name of Jesus Christ , whom we serve , and therefore are hated of the world because we are not of it ; but without much more words I leave this I. S. our adversary to the judgement of the Great Day , wherein we and he shall receive according to our deeds , and till then is as willing to have dispraise , as praise of men , who is not a Jew outward , but a Jew inward , who hath no praise of men , but of God , who is of the Kingdom of Christ , which is not of this World . E. B. Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A86667e-180 * viz Quakers * viz. Quakers * viz. Quakers * viz. Quakers . * viz. Quakers * viz. Quakers * viz. Quakers Answer . Answer . Answer . Answer . Answer . Answer . Answer . Priest . Priest . Answer . Priest . Answer . Answer . Priest . Answer . Rom. 8. 
A84830	----	Truth's defence against the refined subtilty of the serpent held forth in divers answers to severall queries made by men (called ministers) in the North. Given forth by the light and power of God appearing in George Fox and Richard Hubberthorn Fox, George, 1624-1691. 1653 Approx. 294 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 56 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2009-10 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A84830 Wing F1970 Thomason E724_12 ESTC R207270 99866332 99866332 118603 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A84830) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 118603) Images scanned from microfilm: (Thomason Tracts ; 111:E724[12]) Truth's defence against the refined subtilty of the serpent held forth in divers answers to severall queries made by men (called ministers) in the North. Given forth by the light and power of God appearing in George Fox and Richard Hubberthorn Fox, George, 1624-1691. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. [4], 107, [1] p. Printed for Tho: Wayt at his house in the Pavement in York., [S.l.] : 1653. Annotation on Thomason copy: "Decemb: th. 19:". Reproduction of the original in the British Library. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. EEBO-TCP is a partnership between the Universities of Michigan and Oxford and the publisher ProQuest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by ProQuest via their Early English Books Online (EEBO) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). The general aim of EEBO-TCP is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic English-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in EEBO. EEBO-TCP aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the Text Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). The EEBO-TCP project was divided into two phases. The 25,363 texts created during Phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 January 2015. Anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. Users should be aware of the process of creating the TCP texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. Text selection was based on the New Cambridge Bibliography of English Literature (NCBEL). If an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in NCBEL, then their works are eligible for inclusion. Selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. In general, first editions of a works in English were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably Latin and Welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. Image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. Quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in Oxford and Michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet QA standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. After proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. Any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. Understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of TCP data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. Users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a TCP editor. The texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the TEI in Libraries guidelines. Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662 -- Early works to 1800. Quakers -- Early works to 1800. 2007-05 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2007-06 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2009-01 Emma (Leeson) Huber Sampled and proofread 2009-01 Emma (Leeson) Huber Text and markup reviewed and edited 2009-02 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion Truth 's Defence AGAINST the Refined Subtilty OF THE SERPENT Held forth in divers ANSWERS to severall QUERIES made by men ( called Ministers ) in the North. Given forth by the Light and Power of God appearing in GEORGE FOX and RICHARD HUBBERTHORN And they watched him , and sent forth Spies , which should feign themselves just men , that they might take hold of his words , that so they might deliver him into the power and authority of the Governours . Luke 20. 20. Printed for Tho : Wayt at his house in the Pavement in York . 1653. To all general Professors of CHRIST in the VVorld . WHat think ●e ! Is it not yet time to cease from strife , but ye must be still beating your fellow Servants , even when your Master is at the Door ! Have ye not yet understood the Parable of the Tares and Wheat , that they should grow together till the Harvest , and now is not the Harvest almost ripe ! Hath not the wisdom of Man had a long day of judging the righteous Seed , But now that Seed i● rising up to judg it : be silent then , and ceas● from Man ● while , and thou shalt see his highest wisdom declared to be his greatest folly : what will it profit thee to resist the breathings forth of the Spirit of Righteousness in any ? will it not add fuel to that unquenchable fier , which already burns as an Oven , tho it may be thou see it not yet . but as it was of old sayd , In the last days shall come Scoffers , men which onely have a Form of Godliness , but deny and oppose the Power where ever it appears ; 't is well if it happen not to this Generation as it did in the days of Noah , the Preacher of Righteousness , the world then being drowned in the sensual life , they could not hear nor understand , therefore the Flood came and swept them away . He not high-minded but fear , for though ye have heaped to your selves many Teachers , and clothed your selves with many Forms of Worship , yet these will not abide the ●ier , nor defend you from the Iudgment that is coming upon you ; consider what a Night of Confusion is already upon you how are ye shattered and rent asunder , that you cannot give a tru account what ye are , or where you are ; this is the Lords doing , that will spoil you of all your Idols , and make you ashamed of your hard speeches against the innocent . Cannot you be content to suck what sweet you can as long as you can out of the pride and vanityes of this World , but you must push with you Horns the low and contemptibl● Servants of Christ , who through his mighty power is now raising up those Valleys whereon himself will sit , in them , & with them , to judg that spirit in you , both quick and dead . Divers QUERIES of great importance , propounded by Thomas Atkinson of Cartmall in Lancashire , TO Gabriel Camelford Parson of Stafley-Chappel : with his Answers to them . Also , REPLIES to the ANSVVERS , wherein is layd open the subtilty and deceit of the Priest , and his Invencions , Snares , and Baits , and false Imaginations : discovered by the pure light of God , which hath shined in our hearts , and hath given us to see the darkness which he and the World live in , hating this Light which hath appeared and enlightned every one that cometh into the World , Iohn 1. 9. and all who are guided by this Light , and have a pure eye opened in them , which is the light of the body , may see and discern the darkness , blindness , and ignorance of the Priest . I Have received many confused Queries , which came from a dark minde , which would know the condicions of the Apostles , or have another meaning to the Scriptures , and that minde I do deny , for if thou have the Spirit , that gave them forth , then thou wouldst witness us ; but as a Serpént full of Venom , hast thou shewed forth thy self , spuing forth thy venom , which must be turned into Hell , who errest not knowing the Scriptures , and the power of God. Friend , in thy Queries , thou askest thou dost not know what ; for some Queries were sent to thee , and thou lookedst upon them to be frivelous and absurd things , so thou mayst look upon that which Christ spoke , and the Apostles , and the Prophets , and say that is frivolous and absurd ; for they were given forth all by one Spirit according to measure , as they ever did in that Generation , they are so with thy frivolous and absurd minde , though thy frivolous and absurd minde ●●serve such things for thy ends . Thou sayst they were condemned to the fier to be burned , which if they had , it would have been a figure to thy self , which Nature could do no other , for they came to torment him and thee , who are for the fier , as it is written , The Beast and the false Prophet shall be turned into the fier : you might as well have condemned the Scriptures to the fier . And I have received certain Papers , in which there is confusion , which thou callest thy Answers , and many confused Queries , which hath come from a Babylonian Merchant , which hath sent some of his stuff to me , who art the scarlet-coloured Beast , and the well-favoured Harlot , proceeding from a confused minde , which art confused and come out of Egypt , from a dark understanding in whom the Prince of the Ayer lodgeth , who maintainst the Devils Kingdom with all thy force and might , and power , as it doth appear , which would be satisfied , who art in the unreasonable nature , thy satisfaction must be Death ; therefore for the simple ones sake have I freely let forth my self in a few Answers and Replies to thy unlearned and confused Queries , Questions and Answers , that thy deceit might be discovered , and the power of truth known , and the simple ones directed , and God alone glorified . To all professed Ministers , who have taken the title of Ministers of the Gospel of Christ , who is the end of the Law and the Prophets , and Shadows , which shadow him forth , a few Questions to you who have taken this Office upon you . Querie 1. Whether thou hast that Light which enlightneth every one that cometh into the world ( which Light is Christ ) yea or no. Pr. Answ . Through grace and love displayed and shed abroad in my soul , I am able to say , that my beloved is mine , and I am his ; and therefore all he has is mine , at least for my advantage , his light as a Prophet , and his love as a Saviour is mine , and all to teach me and lead me to my Fathers house , but thy inference thereon is absurd and foolish : thine do I say ? I mistook , the inference of thy Master or Scribe , for it is not thy hand-writing ; and in that I wonder , but that it is usual with you , how you can be so contradictory to your own Principles ; for you generally charge others with speaking that which is not their own , and yet thou comest in the face of the Congregation and givest that which is not thy own , thy self : for shame either deny your Principles , or act and speak according to them . But to let that pass , thou proceedest with this inference ; if so , why dost thou deny and say that every one hath not that Light to teach them and guide them to God ; Is this a sufficient inference , that bececause I have it , therefore it must not be denied but that all have it ? Let any , that God hath given an understanding to , judg ; surely God hath left you , you have even lost your common Reason among you . A Reply to the Pr : An. Thou sayst thou art able to say through grace , that thy Beloved is thine , and thou art his ; so do the false Prophets say , He saith it , Jer. 23. 31. but thou knowest nothing of the Beloved nor of Jesus Christ which is the Beloved , nor through grace . Thou sayst all that Christ hath is thine , his Light for thy Prophet , his Love as a Saviour to guide thee to thy Fathers house ; as a Thief thou hast gotten the Letter , Jer. 23. 30. and a form which Christ spoke , and that thou callest thine ; but ( thou enemy of Christ ) thou neither knowest the Light which is Christ , that enlightneth every one that cometh into the world , John 1. 9. that thou canst not witness according as the Query was put to thee , nor the Prophet , nor the fathers house , nor the Saviour which the Scripture speaks of ; but thy fathers house thou knowest , and thy beloved which is the God of the World , and thy imagined Light which leads thee to thy fathers house , which we utterly deny , thee and thy fathers house , and thy beloved thou hast shewed , thy beloved is thine , which is thy Lust for thy gift . Qu. 2. Whether your Gospel be the same that the Apostles preached ? and if it be , Why go you to Oxford and Cambridg , when the Apostle said the Gospel he preached was not after man ▪ neither was he taught it by man , neither received he it from man , but by the revelation of Jesus Christ . Priests Answer . I shall speak as to my own particular , and this through grace I have to say , God hath carryed forth my spirit to preach and to declare Christ , and him crucified , as the Apostles preached , 1 C●r . 22. and to declare the manner of Gods giving this gift to sinners , as the Apostles did , and that freely through grace Rom. 3. 24. the Doctrine of grace appears to be the Doctrine of the Gospel , Gal. 1. 5 , 6. compared with the 9. & 10. verses . And he that preacheth another Gospel than this , is a perverter of the Gospel of Christ , and under the curse , though he seem to an Angel from Heaven , 7 , 8. v. Thy Inference is , If it be so , why do you not live on the Gospel ? I do live on the Gospel , and that is thy trouble and grief it seems : but thou addest , when as it is said , Freely ye have received , freely give , Matth. 10. 8. If thou examinest well what is cited by thee , thou wouldst finde that this is principally spoken of healing the sick , cleansing the Lepers , raising the dead , and casting out Devils , which were things at that time more likely to get them money than preaching the Gospel : but again , if thou wilt take no notice of that , but apply it wholly to the gift of preaching , this I say , that Christ did even there approve that the Labourer was worthy of his hire , Luke ●● . 7 , 8. A Reply to the Priests Answer . Thou sayst , that God hath carryed forth thy spirit to preach and declare Christ , and him crucified , as the Apostles preached ; I utterly deny thee to be any Preacher of Christ , or to know God or Christ , or the Word of God : and the Apostles condicion thou knowest not , and the grace of God thou art an enemy to , and thou art one of them that crucisies Christ ; Matth. ●7 . ●● . wheresoever he is rising thou wouldst know him and crucifie him , who art giving thy Exposicions upon the Doctrine of Christ , and wresting the Scriptures to thy own destruction , Gal. 1. 8. being unlearned ; and thou art he that preaches another Gospel , which art a perverter of the Gospel , which art cursed , as thou hast made it openly appear in thy Queries : and thou speakest of Angels from Heaven , them thou knowest not . Friend , thou sayst thou livest upon the Gospel , but it is upon that which the Apostles spoke ( the Letter ) a Declaracion , that is thy Gospel , which was made manifest to the Apostles , which is not to thee , and that thou livest on and tradest withall , as a Thief and a Robber , Ier. 32. 30. and so deceivest poor people , who art a Minister of the Letter and not of the Gospel : and thou sayst , that the Labourer is worthy of his hier , but what pay did Christ give to his Labourers that he sent into his Vineyard ? Did not he say , they might have but a Penny ? Wilt thou be content with his wages ? O thou Enemy to him , who art without God in the world , and thou h●st shewed that Christ never sent thee to preach , therefore tho● knowest not his wages that he gives , but the Devil he leads thee , and thou takest his hier , and he is thy Master , for thou receivest the wages of unrighteousness , shewing thy self worse than Balaam , who loves the wages of unrighteousness , Iude 11. which wo was upon , who art without , perverting Christs words , and wresting the Scriptures , and like a Thief wouldst be like one of them in thy words , but like the Devil in thy practice ; and thou sayst , the doing of Miracles , and the casting out Devils , and raising the Dead , were things at that time more like to get money than preaching the Gospel ; O thou Enemy of God! where dost thou finde any of the Ministers of God that took money for working Miracles ? Simon Magus would have bought the Spirit to have wrought Miracles withall ▪ but the gifts of God is not to be bought and sold for money , thou sellest thy carnal gifts , but thou & they must perish that do so , for it is your perishing minde , for thou canst not witness one of the gifts of God , nor of the Miracles of Christ , neither the dumb to speak nor the blinde to see , nor the deaf to hear , but art a silthy Beast , wich art spued out from God , dead in thy sins and trespasses , Ephes . ● . 1. and whereof thou wouldst have the Scripture answer thee , thou art dead from hearing of them . Query 3. Whether you can give another meaning to the Scriptures than they are , and whether the Apostles did not give the right meaning to them , when they spoke them forth , or no , and if they did , what need learned men to give another meaning to them . Priests Answer . What a man can do is one thing , and what he doth or desires to do is another , if no man can give an Exposition , besides the meaning of the Scriptures , me thinks you should be quiet in that particular , and not spend your breath so vainly ; the same Spirit of God that gave out the Scriptures , being in the hearts of his chosen ones , doth instruct them to compare one Scripture with another , and to give out the meaning of one Scripture by another , and so it is not another meaning to the Scripture , but their own meaning though covered and veyled , till cleared and opened : and yet thou goest on , and sayst , we give another meaning to them , which if thou canst charge me with , and make it good , spare me not , if not , this in the paper is of no validity , for it was given to me , but that the Apostle's meaning was often dark to a weak eye , before expounded , thou must needs confess , if thou shalt but view two or three for a trial , and clear up the meaning of the Apostle in Rom. 5. 14. A Reply to the Priests Answer . Thou sayest , what a man can doe is one thing , and what hee doth or desires to doe , is another thing : here thou shewest thy selfe to bee compleat in thy selfe . And thou sayest , that no man can give an exposicion besides the meaning of the Scriptures ; and thou thinkest we should be quiet : we cannot let thee be quiet , who livest in thy thinkings , and deceivest peeple with thy imaginacions , whom God is come to scatter , and God is against thee , who art giving exposicions upon the Scriptures , and wouldst have them who live in the power of the Scriptures , to let thee alone ; but thou art hee who wrests the Scriptures , 2 Pet. 3. 16. who ever was denyed ; therefore thou art discovered to them who live in the power of them ; all Scripture is vayled and covered from thee , and so thou wouldst give a meaning to them , and so under a colour make peeple beleeve it is the same meaning ; but thou art discovered , who sayst I charge thee , I can ; dost thou not say , the Scriptures are dark , I charge thee to have spoken a Ly , and art a lyar , and dost not see the Scriptures at all , and all thy imaginacions of them are lies : thou sayst the Scriptures are dark to a weak ey , here I charge thee to be a Lyar before the Living God ; the darknesse is in thy selfe , and not in the Scriptures , Luke 11. 33. 34. therefore thou dost wrest the Scriptures , and dost make a Ly upon them , and turnest them into a Ly , Ier. 5. 22. O thou enemy of God , tremble before him , thou hast nothing to doe with the Scriptures . Friend , thou wouldst have mee to vieu one Scripture or two for a tryall ; the Scriptures we know , but thou sayst they are dark , thou art full of darknesse , and they are as they speak ; he that can receive it , let him , he that hath an ear may heare what the Spirit sayth : thou wouldest have me to give Exposicions upon the Scriptures as thou dost , whom the plagues are aded to , for as it is written , the plagues are added to ●h●m that addeth to the Prophecy of this Book , Rev. 22. 18. and there is thy porcion ; but wee know the Scriptures , and own them as they speak , but all thy Expositions of them wee do deny , for with them thou dost bewitch the peeple , but the plagues of God will be poured upon thee , for thou dost neither know the Scripture nor God , but art a lyar and of thy father the Devil , Iohn 8. 44. Thou dost also bid me clear up the meaning of the Apostle in the fift chapter to the Romans , verse 14. so heer I charge thee again that thou dost wrest this Scripture , for men of corrupt mindes do wrest them , and so thou art , but the Scriptures are clear ; it is thy corrupt mind and heart that must be cleared : Let the Scriptures alone , thou hast nothing to do with them ; thou vayn man , dost thou talk of clearing up the Scriptures who art full of filth and corrupcion ! woulst thou have that cleared which was spoken from the Spirit of the Lord ! thou blind hypocrit and Pharisy , all peeple who walk in the light , may see how thou hast uttered forth thy folly , and record against thee . 4 Query . Shew me by the Scriptures where the Ministers of Christ ever took Tythes , or Augmentacions of the world . Pr. Answer . I shall answer but for my selfe , seeing the paper was sent to mee in particular : and my Answer is , that I take no Tythes , no nor Augmentacions , from the world ; and that thou knowest well enough , but that thy Kainish nature in thee , to use thy own expressions , hath made thee blind : it is not any Augmentacion unlesse it have somthing added to what I had before : now thou knowst I have nothing besides it , nor before it , from any of you all : All I have is a Gift from the State , and why may not I take a Gift from the State ( call them the world or what thou wilt ) as well as George Fox and James Nayler take a Gift from the world among you , I know not , but I would willingly be resolved in this . A Reply to the Priests Answer , Thou sayst , thou takest no Tythes nor Augmentations of the world , but thou confessest thou takest a gift , who goest in the way or Balaam , for gifts and rewards , Iude 11. and art in his generation , so art one of these filthy dreamers , which Iude speaks of , therefore wo unto thee who shall perish in the gaynsaying of Core. 1 Pet. 3. 16. O thou false accuser , where canst accuse either George Fox or Iames Nailer of taking gifts of the world , as thou dost here , thou wouldst make them like thy self , and a colour for thy own filthiness , by accusing George Fox and Iames Nailer , because they bear testimony unto the truth , and testifie against thee , and thy gift , that thy deeds are evil , and wouldst fetch up the Apostles to maintain thee in thy filthiness , Acts 20. 33. he did eat no mans bread for nought , and so coloured Beast wouldst colour thy self with the Apostles words , to maintain thy self in the generation of Balaam , which the Apostle cried wo against , and wo is thy portion , therefore own it , and there is thy resolve . Priests second Answer to the fourth Query . Besides , God hath said , The Earth shall help the Woman , and did the Woman reject that help , because t is from the Earth ? Answer me . He hath said , Kings shall be nursing fathers , and Queens nursing mothers to his people , shall Gods people then refuse to take their fatherly and motherly kindness ? Answer me , Are we not to be thankfull , and take their refreshing as from Gods hands , for , he stirs up their hearts to it , whosoever they be that do it ; Paul did not run away and refuse kindness when it was offered him by the Barbarians , Acts 28. 7 , 10. neither did he refuse a lodging from them , which no question was of some value . A Reply to the Priests Answ . Thou wouldst be answered whether the Earth helpeth the woman yea or no. Answ . Yea , the earth doth help the woman against all such Dragons as thou art ; the Scripture we do witness is fulfilled , and Kings and Queens which are nursing fathers and mothers , thou art an enemy to , Isai 49. 23. and knowest not , but as a Thief hast gotten the words of the Apostles , and so with them wouldst maintain thy gift : O thou blinde Pharisee ! are these thy meanings that thou wilt give to the Scripture with thy carnal minde to maintain thee , and to hold up thy carnal gift , and these things which Christ forbids his to do so , who said , Freely you have received , freely give , but here thou art not , and it shews that thou hast not received it freely , therefore thou sellest that which thou callest thy gift , which the Apostles never did , 1 Cor. 9. 18. Paul was not hired , when he was refreshed with the necessaries of the Barbarians ; O thou Enemy ! why dost thou accuse Paul , and would make him like thy self ? let him alone , for thou knowest him not , nor his Ministery , for he was a prisoner of the Lord , a traveller of the sea , when the Barbarians lodged him ; what is that to thee , to maintain thee to bear rule by thy means , which Ieremy cryed against , Ier. 23. 14. & holdest up the horrible filthy thing that is committed in the Land , to justifie thee , to be a hierling , and to receive thy gift , and here thou hast openly shewed thy self to be an accuser of the Apostle , and wouldst make him like Balaam , like thy self : and would have the woman to help thee , and those are thy nursing fathers , Kings and Queens which hold up thy gift , which the Prophet cryed wo against , but it is that fools may utter forth their folly , and be taken in their own snare , Prov. 13. 16. here thou art answered , the Beast that hath held up the false Prophet , and the false Prophet shall both into the fier : And thou sayst , thou dost not take gifts of the world , but if any Prophet of the Lord come among you , son or daughter , you shew your selves to be of the world , you shew your selves to be strikers , and of the Devil , halling them out of the Synagogues , Matth. 10. 17. and to be no Saints ▪ nor no Church of God , nor no Ministers of Christ ; and here thou shewest thou takest of the world , and thy self to be a Lyar , for thou never readest of any of the Churches of God , if any of the world came in among them , that they halled them out and beat them , but it shews the effect of thy ministery and blasphemy , which sayth , ye are Iews , and are not , but are Synagogues of Satan , Rev. 2. 9. & 3. 9. we have found thee out and tryed thee . Query 5. Whether the Plagues be not added to him , that adds to the Prophecy of the things written in this Book . Priests Answer . 'T is tru , the Spirit of God sayth so , Rev. 22. 18 , 19. I do believe it , yet again , the expounding and opening of it , by the Light of the Spirit of God given in , comparing it with other Scriptures , is not that which brings the curse , for then the Apostle himself would have been under it ▪ 1 Cor. 9. 9 , 10. Rom. 4. 3 , 6. Rom. 11. 3 , 4 , 5. For expounding it , wherein I have added or taken away is not yet discovered by any of you , and that is the waight of the business when thou didst write to me or any other ; the Lord judg , and let all the Lords people judg , whether he be not more apt by far to add to the Prophecy of this Book , who by his doctrine begetsi● slight esteem of the Prophecy of this Book , and perswades his hearers , that his words are as true as any Scripture , and he cannot err , and therefore all is to be believed that he speaks , and not to be questioned , though many things are contrary to this Prophecy ; than they that are so much blamed by them , and reproached dayly . A Reply to the Priests Answer . Thou sayst it is tru , that the Spirit of God sayth , that the Plagues are added to him that adds to the prophece of this Book ; here thou speakest a Lye ; thou sayst it is tru , the Spirit of God sayth , He that adds or diminishes to the prophecy of the Book , which hadst thou not seen the Letter , then hadst known no spirit ; and because the Letter sayth so , that is thy spirit , but as I finde thee adding , wresting and lying , I do see that the plagues are added to thee , by the same Spirit that gave forth the Scriptures , and of them thou knowest nothing , in that thou speakest a Lye , in that thou sayst thou dost know it , for thou knowest it not to be a truth , though the Letter speak it , as they swore the Lord lived ▪ and swore falsly , Jer. 3. ● . if thou didst , thou durst not add nor diminish : thou sayst comparing one Scripture with another is not that which brings the curse , for then the Apostle would have been under it , and so with thy corrupt minde dost accuse the Apostle falsly , and wouldst make him like thy self : and who speaks of the Scriptures fulfilling , which thou canst not witness , but makest a trade of them without thee , and wouldst have Points and Reasons of them , as thou wouldst have made a poynt of the Resurrection in thy former writing , and here the plague of God is due to thee , and here I charge thee again , and here the Fool is out of the truth , and the Rod is for the back of the Fool , Prov. 10. 13. Prov. 18. 28. and here is the Scripture fulfilled upon thee , and thou sayst it is not discovered by any of us , whether thou addest or diminishest , here thou hast shewed thy self to be a Lyar , thou hast been told both publickly and privately of it , and of thy deceit : and now seeing thou hast openly shewed thy self to be a Lyar , here openly do I make thee manifest as a Lyar , who wouldst justifie thy self in thy deceit , but thou harlot art made bare and discovered , Nah. 3. 4 , 5 , 6. who hast sitten long under a colour , and here is the Scripture is fulfilled upon thee , and the Prophets words tru , we finde them fulfilled , Prayses , prayses , be to the Lord God of Heaven and Earth for ever , who gives his servants victory over the Beast , and the false Prophet , Rev. 15. 2 , 3 , 4. such as thou art , who have been ensnared by thee , therefore we see that Plagues are thy porcion ; thou sayst that plagues are the waight that we give thee , it is so , 't is thy due and porcion : thou sayst , the Lord judg , and let all the Lords people judg , 1 Cor. 6. 2. the Lord doth judg , and the Lord hath judged , and the Lords people doth judg all such as thou art ; Him that thou dost accuse , as to add to the prophecy in the Book , he doth not , but witnesses it , thou having not the same witness canst not believe , and neither sees him nor the prophecy of the Book , thou seest the outside of the Letter with thy visible eye , as they did which saw the outside of the Vision of Daniel , Dan. 10. 7. But we that do believe him , do believe his Doctrine , not an outward testimony , but we have the witness in our selves which are one with him , and it doth witness that he hath the Spirit of truth , which cannot err , but we do know thy spirit by the same Spirit to be the spirit of error , and here thou wouldst not have the Spirit of God to be believed on ; but here thou shewest thy self , that would question truth , for there is nothing in thee born up in thy understanding to receive truth withall ; here thou shewest thy self to be an open Lyar , to say he acts contrary to the Prophecy who is one with it , and bears testimony to it , and the truth of it , against all such false accusers , 2 Tim. 3. 3. as thou art , for false accusers should arise , Tit. 2. 3. and here thou shewest thy self to be one , who accusest the Spirit of the living God , to be more false than those that have the spirit of Antichrist , who shall be consumed , and turned into the Lake , by the brightness of his coming , 2 Thess . 2. 8. the mouth of the Lord of Hosts hath spoken it . Query 6. What Scripture have you that speaks of the word two Sacraments , which you tell the people of , and what Scripture have you to act such things . Priests Answer . Certainly Satan hath blinded your mindes , you would never have put forth such a Question else , for the substancial Word the Lord Iesus , that we preach , of him the Scripture speaks every where ; and for the Word , as the Declaracion of the minde of God , in and by Christ to poor sinners , the Scriptures are plentifull , take two or three , Iohn 5. 24. Iohn 8. 31. Iohn 12. 48. Iohn 15. 3. Iohn 17. 20. Ephes . 1. 13. Many more I might add , but that I have a check on my spirit , for gratifying your folly so far as I have done in this particular . A Reply to the Priests Answer . In thy Answer thou sayst that Christ is the substancial Word , thou sayst so , because the Letter declares he is the Word , but no other knowledg hast thou ; but this is no answer to the word two Sacraments , for Christ we know who is the Word , but the word two Sacraments , which there is no Scripture for , which you tell people of , which is an addicion to the Scripture , and a thing that never was practised among the Saints , as thou being one with thy fellows that holdest up those things , the Query was , what Scripture you have to act such things ? but Satan hath blinded your eys , 2 Cor. 4. 4. 1 Iohn ● . 11. which will not let you justifie those things which you act , which shews that you serve but an ill Master , that will not bear you out , neither can you own the Scriptures as they are , but you must give Exposicions upon them , and poynts , and your imaginacions and conceivings , who would have the Scripture cleared , but it is thy evil eye and minde that must be cleared , Matth. 6. 23. for the Scriptures are as they speak ; thou sayst the Word you preach , ( Alack for thee ! ) thou never knewst the Word , if thou didst thou wouldst not speak of clearing up the Scriptures , as in thy other Queryes thou speakest of . Query 7. What Scripture hast thou to stand praying in the Synagogues , before Sermon and after , and where the Apostles did so , or ever took a Text to treat upon . Priests Answer . Observe that place , Matth. 6. 5. and thou shalt see that the thing Christ ayms at is not so much the posture nor the place , but their end of praying in the Synagogue , and that was to be seen of men , for he did not before nor after condemn the dutyes of fasting , praying , alms-deeds , but taught his Disciples how to do the same things , though to avoyd the hypocrisie of others in doing of them ; and though another may be in the same place and posture as they were ▪ yet he may have other ends than they had , which thou canst not lightly judg of , as Christ did , for Christians in prayer with upright hearts are not bound up to any place , 1 Tim. 2. 8. And for praying in the publick meeting place , and among the Assembly it was so common and usual , that the place even had its name from it , it was called the House of Prayer , Matth. 21. 13. Isai 56. 7. and the hours of prayer were known by the Apostles , Acts 3. 1. And that it was so in the times of the Gospel may be seen by Pauls Doctrine about it in the 1 Cor. 11. from the 9. to the 18. verse . and in 1 Cor. 14. 13 , 14 , 15. For the times of prayer before Sermon and after , the Apostle gives a general Rule , 1 Cor. 14. 26. Let all things be done to edifying : now what way is more edifying and building than for the servants of God to way● on the great Builder God in Christ , for help in the beginning of their work , and in the close after mercyes received , in speaking or hearing , to speak good of the Name of our God in blessing ▪ and prayses ; the thankfull heart shall not want goodness from God ; but more fully the Apostle is clear in it ; 1 Tim. ● . 1. That first of all prayers must be made , to begin with that , and that the thing is no● without example , to conclude our speech with prayer ; see that in Acts 20. 36. This was likewise his manner in the close of his Epistles , as may be seen in seven of his Epistles , which I could never see in any of your Letters , you like not prayer so well it seems . And after that comes in thy frivolous and simple Question , this is all I see thy hand to , and therefore I call it thine . [ Or ever took a Text to treat on . ] I may well answer thee as Christ did the Saduces , Thou errest , not knowing the Scriptures ; for look Acts 8. 35. whether Philip took not a Text to treat on to the Eunuch out of Isai 53 ▪ 7. Acts 10. 34. where Peter took a Text out of Deut. 10. 7. & Acts 13. 17. out of Ex●d . 3. 14. and above all we have the example of Christ in this , in his Sermon Luke 4. 17 , 18. who took his Text out of Isai 61. 1. in the Synagogue , and he took a Book to reade it too , though I believe he had the Scripture more in his heart than any of your Teachers : thus having answered this Query , I have one word to say to thee , or the Inditer of it , before I go on , ▪ and that is this , you have in this to me discovered a profane spirit , that findes fault with our often seeking and calling on God , and blessing his Name ; I am jealous that you are acted by the spirit of Satan amongst you , ▪ you are so like those spoken of in the 3 of Mal. 7. 14 , 15. Reade , and God give you to understand it well , for to me it appears , that the Spirit of God is quite of another nature , that says Pray continually , and without ceasing , in every thing give thanks , Ephes . 6. 18. 1 Thess . 5. 17 , 18. it calls and encourages to the thing , Psal . 50. 15. A Reply to the Priests Answer . A Scripture thou wrests to maintain the Answer of it , in Matth. 6. 5. Christ bids his Disciples pray not as the Pharises did , for they prayed standing in the Synagogues , but [ when thou prayest , enter into thy Closet , and shut the door ; ] and here thou art a Lyar of Jesus Christ , and pervertst his words , who took his Disciples off from the customary praying of the Pharises , and bade them not pray as they did , but thou goest about to maintain the Pharises Kingdom , which Iesus Christ cryed wo against , and wrests several Scriptures to hold it up withall , which is nothing to thy purpose : and another Scripture thou bringest , 1 Tim. 2. 8. [ he would that men pray every where , lifting up holy hands without wrath and doubting : ] thou nor the world canst not witness this , nor your hands to be holy to lift up to God , therefore they are abomination , and is to be denyed ; the Apostle to Timothy did not bid him go stand praying in the Synagogues , but thou wrests his words , to maintain thee in the chiefest place of the Assembly , Pharise like . Another Scripture thou bringest out of Acts 3. 1. Now Peter and John went up together into the Temple , at the hour of prayer , being the ninth hour . They were commanded to pray not as the Pharises did , who went to shew forth Christ Iesus the substance , of all those types and figures which they lived in , ( all these Scriptures will not maintain thee to hold up thy Pharises seat ) they went to cry wo against them , and so do we now cry against thee , and thy beastical worship ; and here I charge thee in the presence of the Lord to be an adder to the Scripture , Psal . 56. 5. and a wrester and a perverter of it , 2 Pe● . 3. 16. For thou canst not finde any of these Scriptures thou bringest to hold thee up in thy Pharise like worship , but ar● a Rod for thy own back , and openly thou shewest thy self to be Antichrist , and one that doth maintain the Kingdom of the Pharises : another Scripture thou bringest , 1 Cor. 14. 26. and here I charge thee again to be a wrester of the Scripture , let all people look upon the Scripture , and see if it will maintain thee to have the chiefest place in ▪ the Assemblies , and to stand praying before and after Sermon ; here thou shewest thy self to be out of the commands of Christ , and art disobedient to him , and he that doth pervert his words , and wrests the Scripture ; O thou subtil twining Serpent ! how fain wouldst thou have a place in the earthly Letter , but there is no place nor corner for thee , but thou art found out and discovered , Obad. 6. For the Apostle which spoke to the Corinthians spoke to them , to whom the end of the world was come , which were Brethren , one had a Psalm , another a Doctrine , another a Tongue , another a Revelation , and another an Interpretacion , that all things might be done to the edifying , 1 Cor. 14. 26. and they might speak one by one , and if any thing were revealed to him that stood by , the other should ●old his peace , that all things might be done to edifying , that God in all things might be glorified : but let all people consider how this Scripture doth confirm thee , to have the chiefest place in the Assemblyes , and to stand praying in the Synagogues before and after Sermon ; let all people see if thou be not a wrester of the Scripture , and a perverter of the Apostles words , and the condicions that the Saints were in ; thou openly shewest thy self not to be in , and thy Church not to be in the condicion as the Corinthians were in , for they were a gathered people out of the world , but thou art without in the world , in the Church of the Pharises , who had the chiefest places in the Assemblyes , Matth. 23. 6. and so art an Enemy to Christ , here openly thou shewest it : thou speakest of wayting on the great Builder God in Christ ; Dost thou speak of wayting upon God , who justifiest the seat of the Pharises , who were Enemies to Christ , and teachest people to do so ? Acts 13. 10. O thou Enemy of Righteousness , and full of subtilty , a childe of the Devil ! I cannot but deal plainly with thee : thou speakest of the great Builder , and wayting upon God in Christ , and art a maintainer of the Scribes and Pharises Kingdom , and art justifying them in their ways , and so doth teach Babylon which is confusion : thou speakest of concluding thy speech with prayer , Psal . 28. 9. Thy prayers are abominacion , and so are thy conclusions of them , so long as thou walkest in the steps of the Pharises , all thy blessings are cursed , and thy seed is corrupted , ●s Mal. 2. and as he saw them then , so we see thee now in the same generacion by the same spirit as he did , the Lord hath spoken it , and thou canst not hide thy self from him , Prayses be to the Lord God for ever , who hath discovered your abominacions : and friend , another Scripture thou bringest , [ Acts 20. 36. He kneeled down and prayed with them all , and they all wept sore , and fell upon his neck , and kissed him , sorrowing that they should see his face no more : ] O thou filthy Beast ! What hast thou to do with this Scripture , that art an hierling and takest the worlds gift , and without God in the world ? and this Scripture , Dost thou take him as an example to pray after thy beastly worship , which Jesus Christ forbad to stand praying in the Synagogues ? and here again I charge thee before all the world to be a perverter of the Scripture to thy own destruction , to whom the Plagues of God are added , Revel . 22. 18. Thou speakest of the seven Epistles of the Apostle , which thou hast nothing to do withall , but as a busie fellow makest a trade upon them ; neither dost thou know the Letters that are given forth by us now , which are given forth by the same spirit , which cannot be divided ; and thou art an accuser ; for if thou didst see our Letters , thou mightst see the same as was in the Apostles , but in the Letters that are sent to thee , judgment is thy porcion , and that is given thee , shewing thy filthiness and abomination which thou livest in : the testimony of love to thy soul is plainess of speech : as for accusing us that we do not love Prayer so well , here thou art an open Blasphemer , but thy Prayers we do deny , for they are abominacion to the Lord , The prayers of the wicked are abominacion , Psalm 28. 9. No Prayers can we send to thee , but for thy destruction , thou man of sin , and Enemy of Christ ; whereas thou dost accuse us of erring , not knowing the Scriptures , here thou hast taken Christs words not knowing him nor the Scripture , and wrests them all along , as thou hast discovered it , so thou makest thy self a Lyar and a Thief , taking Christs words and accusing others with them who live in the life of them , for Christ spoke that Scripture as touching the Resurrection , which thou wouldst have turned into a Poynt , therefore to thee that Scripture belongs , that thou errest not knowing them , nor the power of God , Matth. 22. 29. as thou hast made it plainly appear : And thou bringest another Scripture as concerning Philip , thou sayst he took a Text to treat upon , and here I charge thee to add to his words , Philip did shew forth Christ which was the substance , he finding him riding in his Chariot ; and thou Beast dost wrest this Scripture and pervert it , and so takest a place of Scripture and rais●st Doctrines , Poynts and Uses , as thou callest them , and what thou conceivest and imaginest of it , and so sellest it for money , and so makest an hours talk of it , and art in one of these Text a moneth , or more , and speakest thine own inventions of it . Did they do so ? O thou Blasphemer ! Philip had not a set wages of him , but he was moved of the Lord to go to the Eunuch , when he was going to Jerusalem to worship ; so if any were moved of the Lord to come unto any of you , who are going to worship , and reading of the Scripture , and should shew you the substance of it , such as thou art , would fall a raging , for it takes away your Trade ; we do witness that which Philip did , but we deny thee to be in Philips place ▪ but onely Antichrist like hath gotten his form , O thou Enemy of all Righteousness ! who hath wrested many Scriptures , and perverted them to thine own way , Acts 23. 6. to maintain thee in thy filthiness , and to make a cover for thee , but thou art discovered with all who are uncovered and stand naked before the Lord God Almighty : Prayses be to him for him . And above all , thou sayst thou hast Christ for an example , for taking a Text , the words which Christ spoke , he said it was fulfilled , Luke 4. 17. Isai 61. 1. and if thou take his words for an example , Is thy Text which thou speakest fulfilled ? then why dost thou ▪ ly so long in a Text , Christ said his was fulfilled that day , who said the Lord had anoynted ▪ him to preach , Luke 4. 21. which thou art not , nor ●anst witness ; and Christ did not take it and raise Doctrines , Reasons , Uses , Tryals and Motives , and have a set time , and a set wages , and preach out of it a moneth or more , as thou dost , but sayd it was fulfilled that day , which thou couldst never witness nor yet say : O thou impudent and brazen-faced ! how darest thou take Christ for an example to maintain thee in thy silthiness ? Christs words we own to be tru , and to be fulfilled , pray●ed be the Lord for ever , which thou hast nothing to do with , but wrests them with thy corrupt carnal minde to thy own destruction , 2 Pet. 3. 16. but as the Prophet did speak of the Merchants of Babylon , as thou art one of them in the mystery of Witchcraft , and so with thy craft dost deceive simple ones , and the Scriptures I know cannot err from that which gave it forth ▪ and thy spirit I know to be the spirit of errour , which is the same that ever deceived the Nations , and we witness the Scripture in our hearts as Christ did . And as touching thy Belief , we deny it , for thou neither believest Christ nor us , for if thou wert of God tou would own us , as they sayd , who needed no man to teach them , but the anoynting , 1 John 2. 27. but that thou art without , and in the world , an Antithrist , and there I leave thee . Whereas thou dost accuse us of a profane spirit , it is the profane minde and spirit in thee which judgest the spirit of truth so , because it doth shew that which the profane nature cannot bear : and whereas thou dost accuse , that we finde fault with your often calling and seeking to God , that is false , for we would have all to call upon the Lord , while he is near , and to seek him while he may be found , Isai 55. 6. and that is the intent of all our writing and printing , or coming to your Steeple-houses , or coming abroad for your souls good , which you shall eternally witness , though ▪ your corrupt filthy mindes do reject it ; but thou Hypocrite and Pharise , and Enemy of all Righteousness ! all thy prayers we utterly deny , for they are abominacion to the Lord , and all thy blessings are cursed , as in Mal. 2. Your praying in the Synagogues as the Pharises did , Christ did deny , and we also do deny the same , and so will every one where Christ is risen deny thee , and such as thou art , for he is but one , the same to day , yesterday , and for ever , whom thou art an Enemy to , and in the Generacion of them that ever were so : Friend , thou sayst , thou art jealous that we are acted by a spirit of Satan , and dost accuse us to be like those spoken of in Mal. 3. these are thy companions eternally ; I witness it , and there thou art present now among them in the same nature , and one that walks out of the commands of God , as I have proved before , and out of the commands of Christ , following thine imaginacions , and therefore are we all witnesses against thee , that thou art in the Sorcery ▪ in the Witchcraft , and in the Adultery , and in the corrupt seed , whose blessings are cursed , the same light sees it now , and sees thee in the same Generation : And whereas thou dost accuse us concerning Prayer , thou gatherest many Scriptures in thine imaginacions ; the Saints prayed continually , and from them Scriptures thou imitatest a Form , and accusest us who live in the praying continually ; and to thee it cannot appear in thy carnal form , neither dost thou know our spirit , for it terrifies thee , nor the spirit of the Apostle , and we do witness the condicion that the Apostle speaks of praying continually , and in every thing giving thanks , 1 Thess . 5. 17. 1 Tim. 2. 8. But this thou canst not witness to be fulfilled , to that which should exercise thy conscience do I speak , which shall eternally witness we , for thou art dead , and the dead cannot prayse God , and that which should prayse God in thee is in the Grave , and none in the Grave can prayse him , Isai 38. 18. and thy carnal minde in thee is limiting God in thy carnal form and custom , and with a pretence of thy Prayers Pharise like , which is but mocking God , and hatefull , and abominacion to him , and all who are of him , thy Prayers and spirit will be denyed by them ; and thou accuser art without , in the world among the false accusers , 2 Tim. 3. 3. and thou must deny all thy prayers , and all thy customs , and all thy worship , and all thy imitated Churches ▪ as thou callest them , and all thy praysings , and all the worlds ways before ever thou knowest God or us . Qu. 8. Shew me by the Scriptures where the Apostles went into the world , and gave the world David's Psalms to sing in Meeter ? these things that ye practis● , answer them by the Scripture , or the Apostles practise , without consequence and imaginacions . Priests Answer . That the Apostles went into the world , that is , up and down in several parts of it , is clear by all their Epistles . That the Apostles Commission from Iesus Christ in their going forth to preach to all Nations , was this , [ Teaching them to observe all whatsoever I have commanded you ] is as clear , Matth. 28. 20. That the Apostles were men that were under the same commands that were generally commanded of all men , cannot be denyed , and if so , then they were to teach this very Lesson of singing Psalms to the world where they went , see Psal . 100. 1. & 96. 1. & 117. 1. & 61. 32. & 148. 11 , 12 , 13. & 145. 21. & 150. 6. Now because you generally keep such work about this particular , but further least you should evade this , the New Testament is not altogether silent in this case , for we reade of Christ , that he sung a Hymn with his Disciples after Supper , according to the manner of the Iews at their Feasts , which say some , was a Part of the 116 Psalm , Paul and Silas sung in Prison , and besides this Paul observed the command of God in this particular , for he taught the Churches this very thing , Ephes . 5. 19 , 20. ●ol . 3. 16. yea and the Apostle Iames declares the very extent of the command , Iames 5. 13. holding it forth as a general duty without exception , he sayth , Is any merry , let him sing Psalms . For singing them in Meeter , I would ask thee such a Question , whether a truth in Meeter holding forth the goodness , greatness , majesty , or mercy of God , do not remain a truth , instructing , comforting , edifying , as well as the same in Prose . If so , the Devil hath befooled you exceedingly , to make you so busie without cause as you are in this thing , and while you pretend for truth of one hand , you are beating down truth on the other hand publickly and visibly ; but besides this , the Psalms were penned by the Spirit of God , so no question they were directed to be sung in the Temple , to that end David sent the Psalms to the chief Musician or Master of the Musick , to put them in Meeter for singing , and gave them grave Tunes to sing them forth in , for the Hebrew Psalms were sung in Meeter in the Temple , and in Tunes invented , and what makes it worse now than it was heretofore ? God hath required the singing of Psalms even of English men , as they are a part of the world , then to that end Scripture-Psalms which were Themes and Verses are translated into English Psalms , which Themes and Verses in like sort that we might sing them : besides all this I would have thee to know , that we are not to live onely by examples , but by precepts , also now I have discovered general precepts for the practise of this ; and as we are to do it , so we are to do it spiritually , orderly , and most to edificacion , and so the general Rule is 1 Cor. 14. 26 , 40. the Apostle in the 26 verse specifies this particular of a Psalm , now what can be more for edificacion , and decency , and order , than to follow that order that had been used so long before , with the approbacion of God himself ; Hezekiah set the house of God in order , and this was one thing he did , he put the singing of Davids Psalms in order , as in the 2 Chron. 29. 30. and in chapter 7. 30. 26. God blames him not for it , but saith he , There is none like him from the days of Solomon , and to this day the order is not contradicted by God , that I know , if thou knowest more discover it . Last of all exception is taken , because they are given forth to the world ; any Assembly of Christians coming together to worship God are not bound up so close , but a company of the world may come in amongst them , and joyn with them in those things which are required of all men , as hearing the Word , praying , or singing of Psalms ; and Christians are not to refrain because they are there , for this see that place 1 Cor. 14. 23 , 24. Now whatsoever thou judgest , I dare not , but judg that God hath some of his people in our meetings , that are Christians indeed , and though there may be more of the world , I know not that this should be a ground to forbear that which all in the Congregation are required to do ▪ viz ▪ to speak good of God. A Reply to the Priests Answer . Whereas thou goest about to maintain the singing of Davids Psalms in a Meeter , and that the Apostles did so , and went into the world to give to the world Davids Psalms to sing in a Meeter , which David sayth , The dead cannot prayse the Lord ; here I charge thee in the presence of the Almighty God to be a perverter of Scriptures and of the Apostles words , and Davids words ; and dost bring in a consequence to bring them into the same carnal invencion that thou art in , and wouldst make them like thy self : and thou bringest a Scripture Matth. 28. 20. that the Apostles went into the world to give to the world Davids Psalms to sing in a Meeter ; there is not a word in the Scripture that Christ sent his Apostles into the world to give them Davids Psalms to sing in Meeter , here thou accusest Christ , and wouldst make him like thy self , and wouldst make the Apostles like thy self ; here again I charge thee to be a wrester and a perverter of the Scriptures : thou speakest of Paul and Silas singing , and them thou dost bring to confirm thy going into the world to give to the world Davids Psalms in a Meeter ; here thou hast shewed forth thy blindness , sottishness , and ignorance ; Paul and Silas when they sung prayses to God they were in Prison , which condicion thou never knewest ▪ and another Scripture thou bringest concerning Christ and his Disciples , when they did sing an Hymn , which thou art ignorant of , but art in the Generacion of the Pharises and Priests that ●ought to put him to death , who hath gotten the form of his words , therefore as Amos sayth , The songs of the Temple shall be turned into houling , Amos 8. thy songs and all your songs : another Scripture thou bringest in the Ephesians and Colossians , to maintain thy beastly end , of going into the world , who are ignorant , and live in darkness , and giving them Davids Psalms in a Meeter contrary to all the Scripture , and the practise of all the Saints , and wouldst compare the Church who are gathered out of the world , the Saints , to be like the world , and thy beastly worship , who sung with the spirit , and with understanding , and with grace , making melody to the Lord in their hearts , 1 Cor. 14. 15. Heb. 2. 12. but the world turns the grace of God into wantonness ; and how darest thou compare them with those that lives and dwels in the grace of God , and sings with grace and with the spirit ; but here thou hast shewed forth thy ignorance and blindness , and it is that fools may utter forth their folly , and that blinde Guides might appear openly ; and here I charge thee again to wrest the Scriptures : and David thou bringest for the justifying of thy going into the world , and giving them his Psalms to sing in Meeter , who sayd , Sing unto the Lord a new Song , and none can sing a new song , but who are rede●med from the earth , Rev. 14. 3. and who are not of the world ; and here thou art an adder , and the Plagues are added to thee , therefore all thy consequence and Songs we utterly deny , and thy vain imitacions : thou wouldst fain get a colour out of the Apostles words to maintain thee in thy filthiness , but thy shelter is taken away , and thy coverings , and thou art discovered to be without , and not in the practise of the Saints : Friend , the singing with the spirit as they did we own , that singing in grace we own , and making melody to the Lord in the heart we own , and the singing of a New Song we own , and witness , as the Saints did , but thy singing we do deny , and witness against it , Glory , glory to the Highest ! Another Scripture thou bringest to maintain the singing of Davids Psalms in Meeter , that the Apostle gave them to the ignorant world , which is Iames 5. 13. where there is not a word in the Scriptures for it , but he sayd . If any be merry , let him sing Psalms , which he spoke to the Saints , scattered abroad , and not to the world ; and there thou art a Lyar of him , and a false accuser of him , the Apostles sayd , they would sing with understanding , and here thou shewest that thou hast no understanding , nor no grace that thou livest in , it s not to be given to people that turn the grace of God into wantonness , and have no understanding in things that be eternal , nor of the Saints condicions , that were gathered out of the world , here thou hast made thy self voyd of the knowledg of God , and of Christ , and of the Apostles , and all the Saints ; thy Meeter we do deny , and they who turned them into Meeter are like thy self , therefore do we witness the beating down of all thy strong holds , and singing in Meeter ; thou hast got another mans condicion into Meeter , and all people I take to record , if thou shouldst see David roaring , quaking , and trembling , and water his Bed with his tears ; Psal . 32. 3. & ● . 11. & ● . ● . & 42. 3. and have this turned into a Meeter , and get up into a Pulpit among ignorant people , of beastical mindes , and then say , Let us sing to the prayse and glory of God : Let all people judg what thou justifiest ; and this is thy imitated singing , which is altogether to his dishonor , and this is thy Psalm : but who are moved to sing with understanding , and making melody to the Lord in their hearts , we own ; if it be in Meeter we own it . O thou blinde Hypocrite ! was David of the world when he did sing prayses ? and did David send his Psalms to the chief Musician to havo them put in Meeter , and so to give them to the world ? thou neither knowest the Example , nor the Precept , which thou wouldst have us to know , nor David ; and all thy Precepts we do deny , and that minde in thee which doth discover them , as thou sayst , which is thy own practise , and not the practise of the Saints , for there is nothing proceeds out of thee , but what comes out of thy imaginacions and invencions ; but the Precept which the Scripture speaks of we know and witness , which thou art ignorant of , as thou makest it to appear ; and all those Psalms which you have turned into an English Meeter we deny , and such as thou art , who keep people in blinde forms and customs ; but the singing prayses to God as David did we own , and witness , Psal. 104. 33. & 144. 9. which thou art without , and ignorant of , and an Enemy to , and to them who witness the same condicion as he was in : And friend , another Scripture thou bringest 1 Cor. 14. 26 , 40. to maintain thee , that the Apostle went into the world and gave them Davids Psalms in a Meeter to sing ; and here I charge thee in the presence of the Lord to wrest the Scripture , and to add to the Scripture , for the Apostle spoke this not to the world , but he spoke to the Brethren ; if thou wert not blinde thou mightst see it , the very Letter declares it : O thou slanderous Beast ! why dost thou slander the Church of God , and would make them like the rude world , strikers & fighters ? Ps . 33. 2. & 89. 5. but it is that thou mightst shew forth thy folly , blindness , sortishness , and ignorance ; thou Hypocrite , if thou wouldst sing now as David did then , where is thy Harp , Lute , and thy loud Symball ? here thou shewest thy self that thou art neither in Davids condicion , nor the Apostles , nor in the Saints condicion , but art without , following thy own filthy imaginacions , living in the cursed nature , which holds up all these abominacions , and the abominable invencions of men , which God forbids : Thou sayst , God hath required the singing of these Psalms of English men , in this thou art a Lyar ; O thou Lyar ! God never commanded these Psalms to be sung of English men which you have turned into a Meeter , but they are your own invencions , and when you reade them Hats you keep on , and when you sing them Hats you put off , and here you worship the works of your own hands : thou sayst , you ought to do it spiritually , which is thy own invencion and applicacion , and thee and thy application we do deny , and there is nothing of the spirit born up in thy understanding to guide thee ; now here thou shewest to be in the same nature that the world is in , they say they ought to do such things , and doth not ; here thou shewest thy self to be one of them without , and not in the same minde the Apostle was in , who sayd , We will sing with the spirit , and we will sing With understanding , and with grace ; but we do deny all thy imitacions : And ●riend , another Scripture thou bringest to hold up giving to the world Davids Psalms to sing in Meeter , 2 Chron. 29. 30. and here I charge thee in this Scripture to be a Lyar in the presence of the Lord God Almighty , and an adder to the Scriptures , for they sang prayses to the Lord who were Brethren , that came to the house of the Lord , as the Scripture sayth , and Hezekiah did not give them Davids Psalms to sing in Meeter , which were Enemies to God , but these did sing when the House was cleansed ; and this is nothing to thee to hold up thine abominacions , and to give the world Davids Psalms in Meeter , but openly to all people hast thou shewed thy self ; thou sayst God blamed him not , there was none like him ; therefore thou mayst see thy self , he was not of the world , and here thou shewest thou dost not know the old Covenant , and hastraced thy self out of them both , and hast made thy self stark blinde : thou sayst , to this day the order is not contradicted by God , Did not Steven witness and say , God doth not dwell in Temples made with hands , Acts 7. 48. and for witnessing forth the substance was stoned to death ; and the Apostle Paul witnessed against all the Figures , Types , and Shadows , and all their Customs , and outside Observances , and all their offering , and contradicted that which God had commanded , when the everlasting Offering was come , and against the outward Temple ; but thou art blinde and canst not see it , Pharise like , but thy minde is seen to be contradictory , who wouldst contradict the truth , and doth not see the end of God , in fulfilling his Types and Figures , and when they are fulfilled , he doth contradict them , and therefore do we contradict thee , which actest these things God never commanded ; that which God had commanded was contradicted , as Circumcision , and the outward Temple , and the Sabboth , and all the Priests were denyed , with them who had received Iesus Christ ; and here thou hast shewed thy self to be a blinde Pharise , which knowest not the precepts nor commands of God , but followest thy own imaginacions and thy own invencions , which I have charged thee withall formerly : and here I charge thee to be a blinde Guide , Matth. 23. 16. and therefore came the Apostle to contradict all the Jews , who held up the Figures after the substance was come , but thou art blinde as the Pharises were , and worse , for when the Apostles had received the substance they contradicted the Pharises , which held up the Types and Shadows , which God had commanded , and killed them that did witness the substance come ; but thou natural brute Beast , who knowest nothing of God nor his truth , must be consumed by unquenchable sier : thou speakest of an Assembly of Christians coming together to worship God , but a company of the world may come and thou joynest with them , here thou shewest plainly that thy worship is no tru worship of God , for they that worship him must worship him in spirit and truth , Iohn 4. 23 , 24. for such are they which he seeks to worship him , but not in the Steeple-house ; the mighty day of the Lord is coming , and God that made the world doth not dwell in Temples made with hands , therefore come down thou painted Beast which deceivest the people , God will overturn thee and thy worship , and all such as thou art ; and them who are of God God is sending them forth to give you the Cup double that ye have given to them : thou sayst , an Assembly of Christians coming together to worship God are not bound up so close but a company of the world may come in and joyn with them ; here thou shewest that thy Assembly are all of one spirit , and here thou shewest plainly that thy spirit and their spirit is the spirit of the world , and not the spirit that was in the Apostles and Saints , which sayd , What concord hath Christ with Belial , and what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness ? 2 Cor ▪ 6. 14. and here thou hast raced thy self out of the tru worship of God ; and I know thy spirit is not bound up , but it is at liberty in the world , in the broad way , and therefore with them it can joyn , and so here thou shewest thy self to be of a contrary spirit to them that preached the Word ; the Ministers of the Word are not Ministers of the Letter , wherein it doth appear that thou art a Minister of the Letter , & a wrester of it ; those who are the Ministers of the Word speak forth freely , and testifie against such hierlings as thou art , ( who art bound up in thy form and set place ) and against all thy customary praying and singing , for the preaching of the Word is to declare freely to all , it is not bound up , but such as thou wouldst limit it , who doth keep poor simple people in bondage under thee : I do believe God hath a people which is in captivity under thy dark imitated Forms , and such as thine , and who are misled by such as thou art , for we were all under such blinde Guides as thou art , until God of his infinite love did shew us his way , and his light , and your ways , therefore in the presence of the Lord God do we testifie against all such practises as thine , and for the simple ones sakes , ( who are under such blinde Guides as thou art ) do we let forth our selves , that they may see how such as thou bewitchest them , and keepest them from worshipping the living God , by thy imaginacions , Gal. 3. 1. Thou bringest a place 1 Cor. 14. 23 , 24. to maintain singing of Davids Psalms in a Meeter , but in that Scripture there is no such thing in it : here again thou openly shewest thy self to be a perverter of the Scriptures , and a wrester of it , what communion hath the believer with the unbeliever ? here thou shewest thy self to be one of Babylon , full of confusion , and confused in thy words , contrary to the Scripture , and a wrester of it , for the world knows not God by all its wisdom : Thou sayst , that your Congregacion is required to speak good of God ; O you Generacion of Vipers ! how can you being evil speak good things ? Mat. 3. 7. Here thou crossest Christs words , thou wouldst have the Generacion of Vipers to speak good things , An evil tree cannot bring forth good fruit , how can you speak good of God , that speak nor good of his people ? the Pharises when they met together , did they speak good of God , when they sayd Christ was a Devil , and gathered together with the chief Priests , and sought to put him to death ? Iohn 11. 53. and in this generacion thou art taking counsel against Christ , and against his anoynted , incensing the rude multitude against them , and is this speaking good of God ? Query 9. Whether a man shall overcome the body of sin , while he ●● on the earth , yea or no ? Priests Answer . There are divers and several victories over sin , as first a victory over the dominion , and reigning power of sin , Rom. 6. 14. this is not given by the power of man , but by the power of grace : there is a victory over the condemning presence of sin , sin cannot so hurt any elect Vessel , as to throw him into ●ell , and eternal wrath and condemna●ion , Rom. 8. 1. There is a victory over the being of sin in the flesh , and whatsoever curse thou sayest on me for the same , I must profess that I am of the minde , that victory ●s not fully enjoyed while we are on the earth , for then and not before , when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption , Death is swallowed up in victory , 1 Cor. 15. 54. and the Apostle cals the body of sin the body of death , Rom. 7. 24. A Reply to the Priests Answer . Friend , thou bringest so many Scriptures , which is to the throwing down of thy own self , as Rom. 6 14. and thou desirest to be satisfied to the contrary to thy belief , for thou believest that man shall not be made free from sin as long as he is here , and here I will shew thee that thou hast a lying spirit , for in Rom. 6. they sayd , they were made free from sin , for while they were servants of sin , they were made free from righteousness , and here thou shewest a contrary spirit to that which was in the Apostle ; and thou desirest to be fully satisfied in those Scriptures , in Rom. 7. 18. 25. Paul spoke his condicion that he was in to the Saints , and what he had passed through , which yet thou art alive in the flesh , and not come to know the Law of God ▪ therefore thy carnal minde rules and reigns in thee , and so thou art making a distinction in the Apostles words , and wresting of them , who witnessed that there was no condemnacion to him that was in Christ Iesus , and witnessed the condicion under the Law , and without the Law , and was made free from the Law through the Law , which thou knowest not , so thou being a dead man canst not hear ; thou speakest of a Victory and reigning power of sin , and yet in the conclusion of thy words thou speakest to the contrary again , and that thou art of that minde , that Victory is not fully enjoyed while we are on the earth , and here thou speakest contrary to the Scriptures , and there is a confusion in thy words ; for first thou sayst there is a Victory and Dominion ●ver the reigning power of sin , and then again thou denyest it , and here thou shewest Babylon , for the Apostle sayd , We are more than conq●●rours through him that loved us , and there is no condemnacion to them who are in Christ Iesus : Another Scripture thou wouldst be satisfied in , 1 Cor. 15. 54. the Apostle did speak what he saw in this Chapter which thou hast taken a word or two of , and we witness and see the same , yet death reigns in thee , and corruption reigns in thee , and the natural minde which doth despise the glory of God , therefore is this Scripture hid from thine eys , but it is as it speaks , we witness it to be fulfilled ; and the Apostle was in the condicion that he spoke of , for he witnessed the Victory , and sayd , Thanks be to God , who hath given us the Victory through our Lord Iesus Christ , 1 Cor. 15. 55 , 56. and sayd , O death ! where is thy sting ? O grave ! where is thy victory ? Rom. 5. 9. and thou hast raced out thy self from the Apostles and from the Saints condicions , and shewest that death yet hath dominion over thee , and that sin hath dominion over thee , and that the mortal hath dominion over the , and that corrupcions have dominion over thee , and that that thou art in the grave , and that Victory cannot be witnessed , and art an enemy to it , and hast not so much as a belief in thee of overcoming of sin ; and here thou hast shewed thy hypocrites hope , as thou sayst , and so keepest poor people in death , in corruption , and in the mortal and carnal minde , and in the grave , and in unbelief , as thou art in thy self , and shewest that thou art damned openly , he that believeth not is condemned already , he that believeth is born of God , and doth not commit sin , but is passed from death to life . Query 10. Whether any natural man can preach the Gospel , yea or no ? Priests Answer . I do believe they may preach the historical part of the Gospel , I believe Iudas did preach and was not behinde in his gift , to outward vie● of the eleven Apostles , for the Apostles had no ground to have any ill conceits of him , for had they , they would soon have reflected on him , when Christ sayd , One of you shall betray me , but they questioned themselves and not him , Matth. 26. 21 , 22. And God gives great gifts many times to wicked men , Rom 2. 18 , 19 , 20. 2 Cor. 11. 13 , 14 , 15. Ministers of Satan may be transformed into Ministers of righteousness , Gal. ● . 8. They cannot preach the mystery of the Gospel nor Christ , from their own experience or enjoyment , for this they know not , 't is folly to them , 1 Cor. 2. 14. A Reply to the Priests Answer . Here thou art pleading for the natural man , for Iudas and the false Apostles , and it is true , in that generacion thou art among them , and therefore thou must needs love thy own , and stand up for them , for no other generacion thou knowest , I am a witness against thee , and I know thee , and have tryed thy spirit , to be one of these false Teachers , which wouldst transform thy self into an Angel of light , and which dost intrude into these things thou never knewst , and so thou puffest up thy fleshly minde , there thou art , I witness thee there eternally by the Eternal spirit : Thou sayst , Ministers of Satan may be transformed into Ministers of righteousness , 2 Cor. 11. 15. here thou wouldst make Satan and righteousness one , and shewest forth thy error , not knowing the words as the Apostle speaks ; and if they cannot preach the mystery of the Gospel , how can they be transformed into righteousness ? for the Ministers of Satan transform themselves as the Ministers of righteousness , but he doth not say , he transforms into it ▪ here thou shewest thy self to be a Lyar , and thy self to be one of those who are no Ministers of the Gospel , getting the form , but denying the power , 2 Tim. 3. 5. which ever was to be turned away from , whose end is destruction according to their works , and so thou shewest all along that thou hast but onely the form of the Apostles words , for thou pleadest for them who are without , and against those who are within , who are in the power and life of the truth , thou pleadest against the truth and the life which the Apostles were in , and the life of the Apostles , for the Apostles did discern the false Apostles , and those who did transform themselves , so with the same spirit we discern thee to be in the same generation among them , and there thou must own thy porcion , and own the Scriptures to be tru , and thy porcion in it , which it speaks of to the false Prophets and false Apostles : Another Scripture thou bringest 1 Cor. ● . 14. thou bringest a Scripture which sayth , The natural man receiveth not the things that be of the Spirit of God , they are foolishness to him , that is thy own condi●ion , own that Scripture for a truth to thy self , for the preaching of Christ , and the Cross is foolishness to thee , as it was to them that held up the Iewish Synagogues which yet thou holdest up ; another in imitation from the carnal Letter , being carnal , and blinde , and ignorant of the mystery and of Christ , and of the Gospel ; but the mystery , and Christ , and the Gospel we witness and own , but we have not re●●ived it of man , neither were we taught it of man , but by the revelacion of Iesus Christ , Gal. 1. 12. and we do witness forth the substance as the Apostle did , and therefore we do deny all such as thou art , who art not so much as a Minister of the Letter , and hast not yet got the form of it to speak it tru as the form is , but thou hast shewed forth thy ignorance and foolishness of the form of the Letter . Query 11. Whether the Tree be not known by its fruits , yea or no ? Priests Answer . No question but it is , Christ himself says so , but I pray thee tell me , did ever a good Tree bring forth Despe●a●ion for its fruit , it was Cain that despaired , Achitophel and Iudas that went and hanged themselves : Is that a good Tree that brings forth wrath , strife , sedicion , heresie , cursings , and such like ? Is that a good Tree that brings forth fruits of disobedience , and slighting of those whom God hath commanded us to honour ? Is that a good Tree that hath for his fruits a casting by of the Ordinances of God , and a slighting of , and reviling and reproaching the servants of God ? Is that a good Tree that hath apparant fruit on it , of justifying themselves , and condemning all that are not of their minde , how precious soever in the eys of God ? Is that a good Tree whose fruit is brought forth in Satans dress , very like him , for if they once believe your opinions , the thing they look for is to tremble , Iames 2. 19. A Reply to the Priests Answer . Here thou desirest to know whether a good Tree brings forth desperation , as Iudas , here thou accusest Christ , for Iudas denyed Christ when he did despair , and Christ found him out , so he doth thee , and all who deny the good Tree , Christ findes out now ; and all who do despair , deny the good ●ree as thou dost , who accusest Christ now , as they did then , and Cain when he slew his brother Abel , then he despaired , when he slew the righteous seed , Gen. 4. 5. and so are all you now in the generacion of Cain , and God doth no more accept your Sacrifice , than he did Cains , who live in envy , and you are in the same desperacion who slay the righteous , as dayly may appear ; and in answer to this Query , in that evil Tree thou art , and bringst forth wrath and strife , for in this very Answer thou hast shewed it , and shewed forth Cain , and malice , and false accusacions , and ignorance : and in thy former Query thou canst not witness the overcoming of sin , and is not sin of the Devil ? and is not sin the cause of despair ? and is this the good Tree ? and Christ sayth , Be ye perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect , Matth. 5. 48. and here thou shewest openly , that thou art that evil Tree , which cannot bring forth good fruit , for he sayth , An evil Tree cannot bring forth good fruit , nor a good Tree bring forth evil fruit ; and this I witness fulfilled ; therefore I see thee , and discover thee , to be that fruitless Tree , which art cursed , and for the fier : and again , thou pleadest for the honor of man , Jesus Christ sayth , How can ye believe that receive honor one of another , John 5. 44. And thou shewest thy self to be that evil Tree , that casteth the Ordinances of Christ behinde thy back , and shewest thy self to be the Reviler , and the Reproacher of the servants of God ; for doth not Christ say , They are called of men Master , and have the chiefest places in the Assemblies ▪ Matth. ●3 . and art not thou there ? and he bids his Ministers not to be as they were , and here thou shewest thy self to disobey the commands of Christ , and to be the evil Tree : because we deal plainly with thee , this thou callest reviling and reproaching ; we speak the words that Christ himself spoke , which testifie against thee , who livest in thy filthiness , and with all thy might and main , wouldst hold it up against Christ and his servants , and wouldst pervert his words , but the Lamb hath got the victory ; prayses , prayses , be to the Lord God Almighty for ever , Rev. 17. 14. Thou askest if this be the good Tree that justifies it self , thou hypocrite ! can a good Tree condemn it self ? here thou wouldst not own it to be a righteous Tree to bring forth good fruit , wouldst thou make a good Tree to accuse it self ? here thou blasphemest and accusest Christ , and he that doth witness this good Tree doth witness against all who are not of the same minde , for all who are this good Tree are of one minde , and of one soul , and of one heart ; and here thou hast showd forth thy ignorance , and thou art a false accuser , that a good Tree can condemn that which is precious in the eys of God , here thou art an accuser and an enemy of righteousness , and knowest not what thou speakest , did ever Christ condemn that which was precious in the eys of God , but nourished and cherished it ? but such a false hypocrite as thou art he condemns , and cryes wo against thee , who art got up into the chiefest place of the Assemblyes , standst praying in the Synagogues devouring widows houses , and painting thy self with other mens words , and so Serpent l●ke , and here thou art a Serpent , and the evil Tree , blaspheming against Christ which is the good Tree , here thou shewest thy self to stand in the same place which Christ cryed wo against , which called him a Devil , as thou dost now , where he is made manifest ; thou believest there is a God , and here thou shewest thou art not come to the saith of Devils , for the Devils believe and tremble , Iames 2. 19. and they condemn thee and thy faith ; and the power of God which makes to tremble thou knowest not , as the Apostle when he came among the Corinthians , he was with them in much trembling , 1 Cor. 2. 3. and thou mightst say the Apostle was in the Devils dress , when he trembled , for the same po●er of God that made him to tremble , the same power of God we witness now which makes us to tremble ; and here thou hast openly shewed thy self that thou dost not know the Scriptures , but makest thy self manifest to be in the Devils dress , and a blasphemer . And as touching opinions they are thy own , for opinions we do deny ; and here thou hast shewed that the power of God thou knowest not , nor never heardst his voyce , whose voyce shakes the earth ▪ Psalm 46. 6. and shewest that thy wisdom is of the earth and earthly , and all thy Gospel notions to be earthly , and all thy knowledg to be earthly , and all thy manifestacions and gifts ( as thou calst them ) to be earthly , for thou denyest the power of God which shakes the earth , Psal . 2. 18. and so hast here shewed thy self to be in the natural state , and in the first birth , and as a fool hast uttered forth thy folly , shewing thy minde to be full of iniquity , and being the Tree which beareth no fruit , which is cursed , Hebr. 6. 8. Query 12. Whether a man shall grow up to that condicion under your Ministry that he shall need none to teach him but the Lord , yea or no ? Priests Answer . Truly I do believe that God hath given so far many of his servants to grow up amongst us , as they see God alone the onely Teacher of himself in all that is discovered by his servants , they know him to be the worker of all their works in them , that Christ is all , and in all , the Alpha and Omega , the teacher of his Fathers minde to us ; and yet notwithstanding I believe few are grown up to that desperate folly and madness , as when God hath afforded means of discovering his will & mind , to cast them all by , and ty God up to work immediatly without means , to humor their fancy , this is to tempt him , Mat. 4. 6 , 7. to confine him , which God cannot like , he will not take it long from proud flesh : I am perswaded the Scripture you bring in , Isai 2. ult . Cease from man , will not serve your turn , for many Prophets , and Apostles , and men of God , taught after that , even by the command of God and Christ ; besides you cry , Cease from man , but you practise quite contrary , witness the running of many of you many miles to hear George Fox ; and you use writings , and printings , which are outward means of teaching . A Reply to the Priests Answer . Here thou hast shewed forth presumption and lying , to say that many are grown up under your teaching to see God alone the onely Teacher , and that Christ is all in all , the Alpha and Omega , and thou thy self not to know the first Principle , nor they whom thou teachest , Heb. 5. 12. for if it were so , that they knew the second Covenant , and the Law of God written in their hearts , they would all deny thee , for it teacheth them to know God , and need not to say , Know the Lord , and needed not any man to teach them , who witnessed the Anoynting , and need not any of thy carnal means , as thou talkest of , for the means that God doth teach his people , is by his Spirit , Gal. 3. 5. for they that did draw them from the spirit within them , bewitched them , and so dost thou , and they that drew them from the Anoynting within them , bewitched them , and so dost thou , which tellest people of a carnal means ; so that Scripture which thou bringest Matth. 4. 6 , 7. it is for thy self , for thou temptest Christ , and wouldst have him to bow down to thy false worship , to thy carnal means , as the Devil did Christ , then own it and witness it , for it is thy condicion , herein thou hast shewed thy self to be a false Prophet , sowing pillows under the peoples arm-holes , and flattering and keeping them in carnal security , and tellest them that Christ is their Teacher , when thou who art blinde and carnal art set up for a Teacher , who makest a Trade with the Scriptures , and neither knowest Christ nor the Spirit , nor the teaching of Christ , ( as thou speakest of ) and so keepest all people in blindness and ignorance from waiting upon Christ : and friend , whereas thou dost accuse us of tying God up to work immediately , herein thou shewest that all that thou hast is but fancy , and lying in thy carnal state , who tempts God , and draws all others to tempt him , and shewest thy self void of all them that spoke forth the Scriptures ; for all Scriptures being given forth by the inspiracion of the Spirit , and holy men spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost , was not all this immediate and eternal ; and here thou hast openly shewed thy self to be carnal , and not knowing them that gave forth the Scriptures , and wouldst draw all others into the same carnal state with thee , and it is thou that wouldst ty up and dost ty up with thy carnal minde , and limit the holy One , as may appear by thy blindness and ignorance , and the people that thou teachest , who drawest them under the carnal Form , and here thou hast denyed the immediate teaching of God , Isai 54. 13 , 14. which all the Saints of God witnessed and followed the ways of , and all that ever know the Lord , and here thou hast shewed that thou dost not know the Lord , but livest in high blasphemyes , and in the state of the Scribes and Pharises , who professed God and Abraham , but were of their Father the Devil , and there thou art in the same generacion doing the lusts of thy father the Devil , who was ever an enemy to Christ , as thou mayst reade thy self in the generacion of all them Teachers , as thou hast openly shewed thy self : Friend , it is thy own proud fleshly minde , that doth confine God , but thou art discoverd , and it shall not be long but thou shalt be more manifest to thy open shame , thou hast walked long enough under a cover , but now thy skirts are uncovered , and thy nakedness appears ; and a Scripture thou bringst Isai ▪ 2. 22. Cease from man , which thou sayst will not serve our turn , but it doth serve our turn , for we own it , and witness it fulfilled , therefore do we cease from all men , which hold up the carnal means , which thou speakest of , and all hierlings , and all them that bear rule by their means , and all them that seek for their gain from their quarter , and all them that are called of men Master , and hath the chief place in Assemblyes , and all they that paynt themselves with other mens words , and all them that go in the way of Cain and Balaam for gifts and rewards , Jude 11. and all those that have the form of godliness and not the power , and all those that wrest Scripture to their own destruction , and give meanings and carnal senses upon it , and all such as lead ●illy women captive , ( which thou hast sayd to be us ) ever learning and never able to come to the knowledg of the truth , 2 Tim. 3. 7. for thou sayst , they shall never overcome as long as they are here ; and thou believest here ; but thou art one that livest in thy lust ; here thou hast shewed that thou art one that the Prophets and servants of God cryed against , who were taught immediately by the Spirit of God , and this was not after man , neither according to man ; the Apostle sayd , the Gospel that he preached was not after men , for he had not received it of man that taught it , all such we own , but all such as are in the way of man , as thou art , we utterly deny them , which holds up these abominacions , which all the Prophets of God cryed against ; and here thou hast raced thy self out from among them all ; those that God sent and commanded , as thou sayst , since the Prophet bade them cease from man , Isai 2. 22. those were not made by the will of man , neither was their teaching according to man , but it was immediate & eternal , which thou knowst nothing of , as thou makest it appear ; and such we own ▪ but thee we do deny , for thou art blinde and knowst it not : And as touching the Books , and Writings , and Printings , which thou accusest us of , and running so many miles ; the Queen of the South came to hear the wisdom of Solomon , and the Prophets of the Lord somtimes they were moved to speak against such as thou art , ( who livest in the abominacions ) and somtimes were moved to write , as one of the Prophets did ; and here thou shewest thy self ●gnorant of the Scripture , and envious against the same power , and the same eternal Word which is now discovering your abominacions , as the Word did then , so the eternal Word doth now ; and thy minde being carnal and outward , looking up at things outward , and so thou shewest thou hast nothing eternal born up in thy understanding , and so thou lookest upon the same which we speak or give forth in writing , to be the same carnal minde that thou art in , and so thou judgest all the Prophets , and Christ , and the Apostles , to be in the same carnal state as thou art , judging Scripture according to thy carnal minde , 2 Cor. 3. 6. & 3. 4. and so to thee , truth is a savour unto death , as it was ever ; but wee are moved of the Lord to write forth or to speak ; it is not an outward means as thou lookest upon , but it is to the conscience of every man , from that which is eternal to that which shall eternally witness it ; but thou art high up in thy hypocrisie , and hast mens persons in admiracion , because of advantage ( for the gift ; ) therefore it grieves thee to see the immediate and eternal teaching of the Lord alone , who is teaching of his people , and guiding them up to himself by his Spirit , whose Sacrifice God doth accept , Gen. 4. 5 , who are in the second birth ; but thou art Cain , and because thou seest the works of God , and God accepts not thy Sacrifice , therefore thou shewest forth thy envy against the righteous Seed in all thy words . Query 13. Whether they be not Antichrists and do disobey Christ , that have the chiefest place in the Assemblyes , stand praying in the Synagogues , called of men Master , which things Christ did forbid his to act , and cryed wo against them that acted such things ? Priests Answer . No question , what is against Christ in the flesh is a part of Antichrist , and to be destroyed , but as yet none of you all that I know have proved , that the uppermost seats in the Synagogues were Pulpits , there seats were more for honor than for service , that Christ forbids and reproves , and these places were taken out of love to them : and for the Title of Master , I would to take off the offence , if that would do it , that all would agree to call me by my name , I take not the Title in love of it , nor to have dominion by it , and the Wo is against this , yet I know there were Masters of the Assemblyes , so called by as wise a man as any amongst you , for ought I know , Eccles . 12. 11. A Reply to the Priests Answer . In thy Answer to this Query , thou canst not justifie the chiefest place in the Assemblyes , therefore thou must own the Wo upon thee : and Friend , thou bringst a Scripture in Eccles . 12. 11. to cross Christs words , herein thou shewest to be a fighter against ●hrist for to maintain thy Mastership , that thou mayst be a Master of an Assembly ; and here openly thou shewest thy self to be a Pharise , and in the Pharises state ; sayth Christ , A greater than Solomon is here : Now thou hast shewed forth thy venom and ignorance indeed , and openly to act against Christ , and openly to be an Antichrist , and a Pleader for the state of the Pharises , and to contradict Christ . Thou sayst , no question but that which is against Christ in the flesh is a part of Antichrist , thou hast shewed thy self to be an actor against Christ in the flesh , and an Antichrist , and shewest that thou never knewst him in the flesh nor in the spirit , for he that walks in the spirit doth not fulfill the lusts of the flesh , but hath crucified them , and all things are become new , Rom. 8. 13. but as thou sayst and dost believe , that a man shall never overcome as long as he is here , so shewing forth the old Bottle , and what is within thee , Matth. 9. 17. here is poured out , which neither knows God nor Christ in the flesh nor in the spirit , but hast poured forth thy blasphemy against Christ and his Doctrine , and all who hold up his Doctrine , and live in it , and love Christ . Query 13. Whether those be not Antichrists , and of the Devil , and no Ministers of Christ , which do not abide in the Doctrine of Christ , yea or no , and which hold up those things Christ forbad ? Priests Answer . Thou strainest at a Gnat , and swallowest a Camel ; thou takest great care of Mint and Annis , and neglectest the weighty things of the Law , who preachest up that which Crist for bad , prove what thou speakest ; if thou darest trust God , as I desire to do , wait with me for the time that God shall discover , who abides with him and in his Doctrine , and who doth not , so far as it is revealed and open . A Reply to the Priests Answer . In thy Answer to this Query , thou sayst we strain at a Gnat and swallow a Camel , because we deny that which Christ denyed ; who were called of men Masters , as the Pharises were , who strained at a Gnat , and swallowed a Camel ; Matth. 23. 7. and thou mayst say that Christ did so , for Christ spoke against them who were called of men Masters , and taught his not to be so , nor to call any man Master , and here thou hast justified that which Christ forbids : And thou dost accuse us that we do take care of Mint and Annis , because we say , Whosoever abides not in the Doctrine of Christ is a Devil ; and here thou hast shewed thy self that it is thou that takest care for those things that pass away , which Christ did forbid : thou bidst me prove thee to preach that which Christ did forbid ; here in thy very words thou preachest up that Christ forbids and cryes Wo against , and here I chargethee in the presence of the living God , who will render vengeance in flames of fie● ▪ Jer. 51. 6. Nah. 1. 2. and here thou hast shewed thy self to be in the Doctrine of the Pharises and of the Devil , and accusest us with tything Mint and Annis , who art a Lyar , for all those things you hold up , and we deny , and it is thou that dost justifie them ; Dost thou not hold up these frivolous things ? the chiefest place in the Assembly , and to be called of men Master , laying heavy burdens upon the People , and stand praying in the Synagogue , this thou strivest to hold up , which we deny ; the commands of Christ thou callest them Mint and Annis , which is a Ly ; and here thou wrests the Scripture to thy own destruction ; I charge thee here , and have proved thee to preach that which Christ forbad , and shut thee forth to be any Minister of Jesus Christ eternally , or knowing any thing of him : thou wouldst have me to wait with thee , if I dare trust God ; I waited with thee too long , but thou art now revealed and discovered thou man of sin and son of perdicion , 2 Thess . 2. 3. who art exalted above all that called God , and thy Doctrine is discovered , and the end of it , for it leades to perdicion , for out of the bottomless Pit it came , and thither it must go : and in thy Queryes thou desirest to know which is most like Antichrist , and here thou shewest that thou dost not know Antichrist , but we know thee to be Antichrist , 1 John 4. 3. and acting in those things which Christ never commanded , contrary to Christ , and yet thou professest thy self to be a Minister of Christ , and yet knowest not Antichrist . Query 15. Whether they be not Seducers that draw People from the Anoynting within them , and tells them they must have a Teacher without them , when as he who was a Minister of the Gospel sayd , You need no man teach you but as the same Anoynting teacheth , and the promise is to him that abideth in it , eternal life . Priests Answer . If thou canst prove and make good thy charge , that I draw People to look from the Anoynting within them , to the Teachers without them , spare me not , God hath taught me to instruct those whom I speak to , not to look on , or rest on the outward Teacher , but to look unto the Spirit of Christ , the Teacher even within them , where he is , to have that made out to them by his light and power that they here speak of , the Ministers without , and that thy own conscience must needs convince thee of to be tru , unless thou art wilfully blind , which is , I fear , a judgment upon many of you : The Lord make out & discover more & more , let it fall where it will , who are Seducers of the People , and whether they be not so that teach & perswade People , that every man hath the Anoynting in them , and a Light that will lead them to Heaven without any more ado : I am much mistaken if the Preacher of the Gospel that thou speakest of prove not the very thing in 1 John 2. 18 , 19 , 20 , 26. reade and consider , and God give thee to understand ; note what John sayth in that place cited by thee , 1 John 2. 27. and you need not that any man teach you , but as , &c. in this to me , not quite taking off men from speaking and hearing , but onely from speaking and hearing what is not agreeable to the Anoynting , men are to speak as the Anoynting speaks , and then they are as the Oracles of God , 1 Pet. 4. 11. A Reply to the Priests Answer . Thou wouldst have it proved , & have the charge made good , that thou drawest People from the Anoynting within them to the Teacher without them . I answer , thou dost openly shew that thou dost draw People from the Anoynting within them , for he that is taught of the Anoynting need not any man to teach him but as the Anoynting , and he that sayd so did not bear rule by his means , as thou dost , and hast got the Form of words , and mayst speak those words , but if any come to witness that they need not any man to teach them , Heb. 8. 10 , 11. as the Saints did them , thou sayst , he denyes the means which God hath afforded , because they will not hold up thee , and justifie thee in thy beastly and carnal worship , and callest that tempting of God , and fancy , and desperate folly , when we come to witness the Anoynting that they need no man to teach them ; herein thou hast shewed forth thy folly , and fancy , and desperate wickedness , foolishness , and madness , as Balaam did when the dumb Ass rebuked him : thou sayst , God hath taught thee , but thou art a Thief and a Lyar , and hast stollen the word , for thou denyest that which should teach thee , the Light which God teacheth by , the Light which enlightneth every one that cometh into the world , Iohn 1. 9. yet thou denyest the immediate teaching of God ; I charge thee , for if any witness to be taught alone with the Anoynting , and deny all mens teaching but onely the immediate Spirit , which all the men of God were taught by , that thou sayst is a tying up of God , and herein thou hast shewed forth thy self , that thou dost not know the immediat Teaching , nor the Anoynting , for those who are taught with the Anoynting , do deny thee and all such as thou art . Thou sayst , God hath taught thee to instruct others ; thou hast nothing from God to instruct others withall , but keepest them in thy immitated Forms , and Customs , dead and husky prayers , and what thou dost get with studying and devising of thy own Brain , that thou feedest poor ignorant people withall , and sayst God instructeth thee ; here I charge thee to bee a Lyar , and the wo was denounced against such as thou art : therfore we deny thee as the Prophets of God denied them , for the same is made manifest to us now , which lets us see thee , as it did them then : Prayses be to God for ever . Friend , the Light and power of God thou deniest , and art ignorant of , and that which should exercise thy Conscience , for thou deniest the Light that enlightneth every one that cometh into the world : And why dost thou talk of the Light and of the power of God , who art ignorant of the Light , and disobedient to it ? but the God of this World hath blinded thy eyes , 2 Cor. 4. 4. and therfore thou endeavourest to keep others in the same heathenish nature thy selfe art in : wherfore to my Conscience thou speakest nothing , nor canst speak to the Conscience , for thou deniest the immediat Teaching , and callest that a tying up of God , O thou blasphemer ! Thou desirest to let the Plagues and Judgments fall where they will , upon them who are Seducers ; thou needest not desire the Plagues , for they are thy porcion , and here thou hast shewed thy selfe to be blind and ignorant indeed ; for thou dost not know a Seducer , nor thy own condicion ; therfore thou art not fit to teach others . A Question thou askest , Whether they be not Seducers , that teach and perswade peeple , that every one hath the Anointing in them , a Light that will lead them to Heaven without any more ado ? Answ . Here thou shewest forth thy foolishness indeed ; for thou wouldst bring peeple forth into the doing the works of the flesh , into the broad way , which work is death , and the End of all thy Ministry is to draw peeple from the Anoynting , and from the Light within them , and to draw them to thy Teaching , wherby thou makest thy selfe manifest to be a Seducer : All who do witness the Anoynting , and walk in the Light , 1 Iohn 2. 8. such thou lookest upon to be Seducers , with thy dark mind , who canst not see them who draw peeple from thy dark Ministry , to mind the Light of God within them , as the Apostle sayd , take heed to the Light of God within you : and this thou dost look upon to be seducing , & that it is not sufficient for to guide them to Heaven , but ▪ that they must come out from the Light within them , to thy Doing , which we deny , and all thy preaching practise , and Invencion , which is witchcraft ; and here I charge thee to be a Witch , and to bewitch the people . Thou dost bring a place of Scripture 1 Iohn 2. 18 , 19 , 20. which thou exhortest to read , which is a Rod for thy own back , concerning you need no man to teach you but the Anoynting : for many came out with us , but it is manifest they were not of us , because they did not continnue with us : but thou art uncome-forth , and thou knowest not this condicion , but art in the world among Antichrists false prophets , and Beasts ; and yet thou wouldst be busy among the Saints condicions : but this I say to thee , All who are come out from among such as thou art , need not any man to teach them , but as the Annoynting . But they who do not continu , they turn from the Annoynting : and he that denieth the Father and the Son , is a Lyar and an Antichrist ; he that hath the Son , hath the Father also : therfore we do know thee to be Antichrist , who should come . Friend thou speakest of Speaking and Hearing what is not agreeable to the Anoynting ; be silent , O flesh , for thou knowest nothing of the Anoynting ; thou art one of those whose mouth must be stopt , thou art one of those dumb Prophets , who hast nothing from the Anoynting , but denyest it , but onely thou hast got the form of words to make a Trade of it , and denyest the thing it self . Query 16. Whether they do not bewitch People , that draw them from the Spirit within , to observe the Ordinances of the world ? when as the Apostle sayd , They did bewiteh you , that drew you to observe Circumcision , which was the command of God , when he who was the substance of those Types and Figures was come . Priests Answer . The Lord rebuke this lying spirit that is amongst you ; who is that which goeth to draw people from the Spirit within to observe the Ordinances of the world name them , and blame them : those that are lead by that Spirit of God , and have him in good earnest , do make use of the Ordinance of Christ , in a more spiritual manner , not to draw them from the Spirit , but but to draw them into the Spirits likeness , possession and enjoyment , the Lord rebuke that prophane Spirit among you that dares to call the Ordinances of Christ the Ordinances of the world , that cares not what dishonour you put on Christ , his Truth , his Waies , his Servants : The Lord judg , and let all the Lords People judg whose Eyes are open , whether they do not bewitch poor creatures that carries them from beginning in the Spirit to end in the Flesh , Gal. 3. 1. 3. from the Gospell to the Law , from Justificacion by Faith , to Justificacion by works , from loving the Appearance of God , to Strife , Malice , Hatred , and to the Appearance of Sathan ; from Peace , to a constant restlesnesse either in their own Spirits , or outwardly troubling others , by Writing , Printing , bra●en-faced-Rayling , and Reproaching , without heeding whether they speak Truth or a Lye. A Reply to the Preists answer , Thou art he that goes about to draw people from the Spirit within them , to observe thy carnall Tradicion , and Imitacion , and to observe the Ordinances of the World , and it is thy Spirit which is that Lying Spirit which thou mencionest , which the Lord will rebuke and must rebuke ; for thy Lord and God I do deny , for the living Lord God of Heaven and Earth , thou knowest not , no more than a naturall bruit Beast Jude 10. for thy God is the God of the World , and he is thy Lord , and the Lying spirit rules in thee , as thou hast made it to apear ; thou art he , therefore I name thee , and blame thee Camelford , and the Lord will blame thee and rebuke thee . Freind , none of the Ordinances of Christ dost thou know , for all thy Preaching is of thy selfe , Christ never commanded it , nor never commanded thee , nor thy Praying , nor thy Singing , Christ never conmanded it , but it is the Invencion of thy Brain , and the invencion of man , and to the Ordinances of Christ thou art an Enimy : Thou dost openly show thy selfe to be a witnesse against them who are the Ministers of Christ , and who abides in the Ordinance of Christ , that witnesse against such as thou art , but all the Ordinances of Christ Iesus we witnesse and own , but thou to them art an Enimy ▪ therfore thee and all thy Ordinances do we deny , and all that which thou calst spirituall manners for this is but thy Gloss and Colour , that thou mayst appear beutifull with thy spirituall nocion , but thou art discovered ! Praises be to the glorious Lord God Almighty for ever . Thou sayst thou dost not draw them from the Spirit , but drawst them into the Spirits likenesse ; here thou hast made a graven Immage , and the likenesse of a thing , and the Lord forbids that thou shouldst make to thy self any graven Immage , or the likenesse of any thing that is in Heaven or in the Earth , and here thou hast showed thy spirit to be a contrary spirit ; in this thou showest thy self to be a Lyar , for thy worship is not so much as the likenesse of a spirit , for the Spirit is one , and it we own , but thy likenesse of Spirit we deny . Thou sayest again , the Lord rebuke that Lying-spirit , and I say to thee , thy Lord we deny , and the Lord God of Heaven and Earth , doth now rebuke thee thou Lying-spirit , for him thou knowest not , and calest it a Lying-spirit , for thou prayest to thy Lord to rebuke the Spirit of truth , which shall confound thee and thy Lord ; here thou hast shewed forth thy prophanesse , and blasphemy , and it is made manifest what God thou servest , even the God of the world . Thou sayst , let the Lord judg and all whose eyes are opened : The Lord doth judg , and hath judged , and all the Lords people doth judg whose eyes are opened , they judg thee and all such as thou art , in Righteousnesse , and see thee clearly ; Prayses be to the glorious Lord God. The day from on high d●th spring . A question thou askest , whether they do not bewitch poor creatures , that turn them from beginning in the Spirit , to end in the Flesh ? Ans : yea I say they do , and thou art one , for as thou saydst before in thy Query , when thou askedst whether the Light was sufficient to lead people to heaven without any more adoe , thou shewest all thy doings tend to draw People from the Light , into the works of the Flesh and from waiting to be justified in the Spirit , and to lead them into condemnacion , and there thou art , one that bewitches the people , who know not the Spirit , but those who are led and guided by the Spirit and walk in it , deny thy Freedom in the flesh , and thy liberty , and all thy carnall Ordinances and Tradicions , And it is thou that drawest people from the Apostles doctrin , and from the Law of God within , and from Justificacion to the Law of works , into thy carnal imitated way : but the Law of Faith , and the Law of God , and the Teachings of the Spirit , this we witnesse and own , as that which the Apostles was taught by , and by this we seek to bring all People from under thy carnall teaching , and we deny it all , and thee both . And whereas thou dost accuse us for drawing people from the Appearance of God , to Strife , Mallice , Envy , and Hatred , and to the Appearance of Sathan ; herein thou hast shewed thy selfe to be a false accuser , 2 Tim. 3 , ● . and a Lyar , in saying we draw people from the Appearances of God ; we draw People up to God , from Wrath , and Malice , and the Appearace of Sathan , for in Wrath , Malice , and Envy , and Strife thou livest in ; for who are drawn from thee , and the Appearance ▪ of Wrath , Malice , and Strife , lives in Joy , and Love , and Unity onewith another : and as for what thou speakest of constant restlessenesse it is thy own , for all who are drawn from you are drawn into stedfastnesse , and the Spirit of them that are drawn from you thou knowest not : Thou who art restlesse and keepest all other in restlesnesse , ever learning and never able to come to the knowledg of the Truth , 2 Tim. 3 , 7. and therefore thou judgest them like thy self : and it seems our Papers , and Writings , and Speakings do torment and trouble thee as ever the power of Truth did the Pharises ; for the Prophet who was moved to write the Roul , when he sent it to him unto whom it was directed , he burned it ; so doth Writing now torment and trouble thee : And whereas thou accufest us of brazen-faced Rayling , and reproaching , without heeding whether we speak Truth or a Lye : Ans : All this state and condicion thou art in : Brazen-faced thou art , for thou art a Beast , and brazen-faced in uttering forth thy Lyes , and thy Railing , and thy venomous filthy Speeches , and thou it is that dost not heed whether thou speakst Truth or a Lye ; for Truth thou canst not speak , for thou canst do no otherwise , for thou art of thy Father the Devill Who was a Lyar from the begining , for the truth yet thou know●st not , but we speak the Truth as it is in Jesus , and lye not , and testifie to that which should excercise thy Conscience 2 Cor. 4. 2. and eternally shall all you witnesse us ● Cor 5 11 though the lyng-Spirit in you now judg the power of Truth to be a Lye , which ever the lying-Spirit did , but thy Spirit is tryed , and we know what thou art , an enimy to the Truth , and without God in the World Query 17. Whether you have the same Spirit as was in the Apostles , and Christ , and the Prophets , which gave forth the Scriptures , seeing you act contrary to the Scriptures , and follow your own Invencions and Tradicions , and so have erred from them all . Priests Answer . The same Spirit that Christ had , the Prophets , and Apostles had , and the same have all that are Christs ; there is but one Spirit of Light , Truth , and Peace in the Body of Christ , 1 Cor. 9 14. and all Dispensacions are given forth by this one Spirit . Yer I do beleive this Spirit is given forth in severall measures , and degrees , to the Body of Christ , Ephes : 4 , 7. 1 Cor : 12. from the 4 Verse to the 12. Yea I do also beleive ; no man to this day , in the world , hath so full a measure of the Spirit , as the Penners of the Scriptures had : they had the gift of Toungs , and were by the Spirit enabled to preach to any part of the world ; I do not know any that hath such a gift by the Spirit ; they had a gift of healing the Sick , and curing the Lame in their bodily infirmities : I know non such , no not the perfectest among you ; they had by the Spirit a gift of Prophesie , which was tru , and came to passe : and though you have had those among you that have pretended to this , yet all that hath been , is but a discovery of that Lying-Spirit they were led by , enough to make you blush , but that you are brazen-faced : They erred not in discovering the minde of God to us ; I know none that can rightly boast of such a measure . I have taken the Pains to answer thy Queries particularly ; excuse it not , but answer me . I have propounded so again , that is particularly . The Lord open your eyes , that what is of God , and Truth , may fix on many of you , that you may escape out where the Snare of Satan is broken , and I shall rejoyce in my Pains ▪ Farewell . A Reply to the Priests Ans : Freind , here thou hast confessed that all hath the same Spirit that are Christs , and here is Confusion in thy words , and thou shewest that thou canst not witness it thy self , but sayest others hath it thou dost beleive , and yet after , thou comest to deny it , and sayst no man in all the world , hath so full a measure of the Spirit , as the Penners of the Scripture had ; and Freind , here thou shewest thou hast not the same Spirit that was in Iesus , and he that hath not the same Spirit is none of his , Rom. 89. and it doth show , that thou readst the Scripture with thy Carnall minde ; and sayst , thou dost beleiv the Spirit is given forth in severall measures , and degrees ; thou sayst it because the Scripture sayth it , but thou knowest not Christ , neither art thou a Minester of him ; and the working , and Operacion of the Sp●rit , thou knowest not , as thou showedst it before , neither dost thou know the gift of God , but art querying the Condicions of them that had received the gift , and afterward fell away , after they were made pertakers of the heavenly gift , which showes that thou knowest not the gift of God , nor art not made pertaker of it ( but art in the Fall , and so showest forth thy Ignorance ) for if thou wert made a pertaker of the heavenly gift thou wouldst leave of buying and selling the Letter , and making Merchandize of it Rev. 18 , 11. Thou sayst , thou dost not know any one , that hath such a gift to preach in any part of the world , nor the gift of Tongues , here thou shamest thy own Profession in the natural state , and the natural preaching , and all thy fellows who profess Tongues ▪ and your carnal Original ; thou sayst thou knowest not any that are so gifted , to speak in all parts of the world ▪ here thou shewest thy self that Christ never sent thee , for whom Christ sent to preach , he sayd , Go preach to all Nations , to every Creature , Matth ▪ 16. 15. but he did not send them for gifts and rewards , for it was Balaam that looked after such things , and in that generacion thou art , envying the righteous : thou sayst thou dost not know the same gift amongst us ; neither dost thou see it among the Apostles ; for the same that was in the Apostles , we witness , the blinde see , the deaf hear , the lame walk , and them that have layd long under such false Physicians as thou art are cured , the dumb speak , and therefore thou ragest ( as thy Example the Pharises did ) and sons and daughrers prophecy , Ioel 2. 28. but such were called mad men and fools by such as thou art in their genera●ion , who art out of the truth ; and whereas thou dost accuse that we have had such amongst us , as pretend to this Prophecy , thou art a Lyar , there is none pretends Prophecy , and the lying spirit speaks in thee , and thou neither art ashamed , neither canst thou blush ; thou sayst thou dost not know such amongst us , therefore thou discoverest thy self , that thou knowst nothing ; Thou deaf Adder and Serpent , who art full of Cockatrices , Psal . 8. 4. for if thou couldst see , but thou art blinde , thou mightst see the same gift amongst us as was among the Apostles , for we witness the same by the same spirit , according to the operacion , but the lying spirit in thee can judg no otherways of truth it self but to be a lying spirit , for it is in the generacion of them that know nothing of the truth , for that Spirit that we are led by thou knowest not ; for if thou wert led by the same Spirit we should be one with thee : but Friend , thy spirit is tryed and known to be the spirit of Error ; thou sayst , the Prophets erred not in declaring the minde of God to you ; thou knowest not the Spirit that the Prophets were guided by , nor thou knowest not the minde of God , though thou hast the outside , a declaracion which is to the visible eye without thee , but ▪ art in the generacion of them that could tell by the Prophets words where Christ should be born , yet they sought to put him to death , Mark 14. 64. the chief Priests , and so thou art one of them which is an Enemy to Christ , where he is born now , as they were them , and as Iannes and Iambres witstood Moses , so dost thou resist the truth , out of a corrupt minde , in the state of Iannes and Iambres , out of the faith , a Reprobate , as thou hast openly shewed it , but thou shalt proceed no farther , for thy folly is and shall be made manifest , 2 Tim. 3. 9. Thou sayst , thou hast taken pains to answer these Queries , thou hast wrested many Scriptures , as it is made manifest , to maintain thee in the state of the Pharises , and to maintain thee an Enemy against Christ , and to maintain thee to be one of Balaams Prophets , and to maintain thee to be one of the hierlings , and to justifie that which Christ forbids , and to maintain thee to hold up that horrible filty thing that is committed in the Land , and to bear rule by thy means , Ier. 5. 30 , 31. which the Prophets cryed against , and with the Prophets words , and Christs words ; and with the Apostles words thou wouldst shelter thy self , and make thy self a cover to maintain thee in thy filthiness ; but the Lord God of power is coming to uncover thee , and lay thee more and more open , and make thee bare , that thy filthyness may appear , to the end that the simple ones who are in captivity under thy subtlety , and snare of iniquity , may be delivered , and peoples mindes directed unto God , that ●e alone may ▪ be exalted to whom be all prayse , honor , and glory for ever . And Friend , thou sayst , that thou desirest that the Lord would open our eys ; thou tempter of the Lord , thy Lord we deny , and thy Prayers we deny , the Lord hath opened our eys , Prayse and glory be to him for ever , the Lord hath opened our eys without thy Prayers , Matth. 20. 34. ( therefore we deny them , they are abominacion ) and contrary to thy means hath the Lord opened our eys ? 1 Iohn 1. 1. neither is there any thing of God in thy Answers , but thou and thy imaginacions are raced out for ever ; and all thy pains thou speakest of , are the works of thy own hands , which were ever cryed out against . Thou desirest we may escape out of the snare of Satan ▪ where it is broken , we have escaped out of thy snares where they are broken , Psal . ●24 . 7. and therefore out of thy dominion , and from under thy power are we come , and see thee to be one that the Devil ensnares , who art one of his Souldiers , and not of Christs , fighting for the Devils Kingdom , and fighting against the Saints with thy carnal weapons , and against ●he Lamb , but the Lamb hath got the victory over the Beast ; Prayses , prayses be to the Lord God ▪ Almighty for every . Amen . FINIS . QUERIES sent by Gabriel Camelford , to the People who out of reproach and envy of the blinde and dark world are called Quakers . Answered by the Spirit of the Lord , which doth enlighten and shine in our hearts : and those that live in the pure light of God , and can reade with the Spirit , may see him taken in his own Snare , and condemned out of own mouth , and his Deceits layd open . Query 1. WHat is a Reprobate ? 2 Cor. 13. 5. Answer . Whereas thou wouldst know what a Reprobate is , thou art out of the truth , hated of God , a Childe of the Devil , an Enemy of Righteousness , the Son of Perdicion , in whom Christ rules not , but the works of the flesh , who knows not the Light that enlightneth every one that cometh into world , but denyes it and hates it . Query 2. Whether Christ be in a Reprobate to lead him to God ? Answ . Thou askest thou knowest not what , Shall ever a Reprobate enter to God ? Jacob have I loved , Esau have I hated ; and Christ condemns the Reprobate , and the Reprobate hates the Light , Iohn 3. 19 , 20. as thou dost , which shews forth the works of darkness , and there thou art a Reprobate , and one that knows not the Light that enlightneth every one that comes into the world , and this Light shall condemn thee who keepest others in the same nature with thy fair glosses and colours which thou settest upon the Scriptures , which must go into the Lake , and into perdicion , who livest in thy filthy and fleshly imaginacions , which ever was cursed from God , Psal . 101. 5. an Enemy of Righteousness , whom the Lord according to his promise will scatter , who livest in thy imaginacious and conceivings , Rom. 1. 21. and there thou art . Query 3. If so , why are not all men brought to God ? Answ . Because they hate the Light as thou dost , and lovest the darkness tather than the Light , because thy deeds are evil ; Dost thou profess thy self to be a Minister of Iesus Christ , and queriest why all men are not brought to God ? here openly thou hast shewed thy self to be a Hater of the Light , for shame give over and blush . Christ sayth , I am the Light which enlightneth every one which cometh into the world , Ioh. 1. 9. which thou art ignorant of ; he that loves the Light , and walks in the Light , there is no occasion of stumbling , but thou that hatest the Light , thy deeds are evil , and therefore thou stumblest , Iohn 11. 9 , 10. and there is thy condemnacion , which is the Light , and with such blinde Guides as thou art are poor people lead from the Light within them which should guide them to God , to hearken to thy imaginacions , and to fall down to thy images , but the Plagues of God will be poured down upon ▪ the Beast and the false Prophet , Deut. 28. 59. and thou art one which keepest people from God. Query 4. Whether any man hath power to resist in the day when he comes to draw the soul to himself ? A●sw . Here thou shewest that thou dost not know the power of God , neither hast tasted of it , but standst in the power of Satan , and dost resist and deny , but a day of power and vengeance , Ier. 51. 6. will come upon thee , which thou shalt not be able to resist , though now thou art querying , and canst not tell whether man can resist or no : by thy Query thou hast shewed forth thy subtlety Serpent like ; the children of Israel which had tasted of the mighty power of the Lord , when they murmured they were destroyed , Numb . 14. 28 , 29. but this thou knewest not , but art shutting up the Kingdom of Heaven against men as these did , who were called of men Masters , which stood praying in the Synagogues , which Christ cryed wo against , in Matth. 23. reade thy porcion there , who hated Christ , and there thou art ; for shame give over professing thy self to be a Minister of God , who knowst not the power of God , but art querying whether any man can resist it , yea or no. Query 1. Who were they the Apostle spake this word to ? Ephes . 2. 12. Answ . They were they that were made nigh by the bloud of Christ , whom thou art an Enemy to , and without God in the world , in the generacion of the Pharises , and a childe of disobedience , Light shines , and Darkness doth not comprehend it : the god of the world hath blinded thy eys , Rom. 11. 8. and thou hast shewed thy self to be a Tempter . Query 2. Whether you dare own this as a truth , made out by the Spirit of God in the Apostle ? Answ . We do witness in us what the Apostle speaks , by the same Spirit that was in the Apostle , therefore we witness against thee , who hast nothing but the Letter and the lying spirit to be thy witness , and we do witness what the Apostle sayth , He that believeth hath the witness in himself , 1 Iohn 5. 9 , 10. and this do we own , therefore tremble before the Lord thou childe of the Devil , Psal . 99. 1. and blasphemer , and Enemy of Righteousness ; who art querying without . Query 3. If so , whether your opinion is not contrary to truth , and so a Ly ? Answ . Opinions we do deny , and here thou hast shewed forth thy dark minde , thou canst not witness that ever thou wert in the Light , for darkness cannot comprehend it , Iohn 1. 5. and there thou art , for thy minde is full of confusion and frivolousuess , and the Lye speaks in thee , and there is nothing of truth born up in thy understanding , and that which should exercise thy conscience thou art an Enemy to , and to the Apostles life thou art an Enemy , and knowst it not , though thou canst and dost make a Trade of his words , and Christs words , and the Prophets words ; O thou false-hearted dissembling Hypocrite ! the Plagues of God are due to thee , and that is thy porcion , Rev. 18. 8. Query 1. Whether there be not a time that men are darkness ? Ephes . 5. 8. Answ . Thou art in darkness , and the man of sin is darkness , and the Light shines in darkness , and thou dost not comprehend it , Iohn 1. 5. Thou hatest the Light thou childe of darkness , and therefore thou art in darkness , which Light shall condemn thee , Iohn 3. 19. the righteousness of God is revealed upon thee in flames of fier , thou childe of disobedience . Query 2. Whether there be a possibility to hide Christ the Son of Righteousness quite under a cloud , where he really is ? Answ . Thou Enemy of God , thou dost hide the Talent in thee under the clod of earth in thee , If thou hast an ear thou mayst hear , 1 Pet. 3. 19. the Ministers of God they speak to the spirits in Prison , and the Prisoners shall come out of Prison ; Art thou a Teacher and shewest thy self to be so sottish , and to be ignorant of the Form , and must be taught the Letter ? therefore thou shewest thy ignorance , because the son of perdicion is above all that is called God in thee , 2 Thess . 2. 3. Thou blinde Hypocrite ! was not he in Egypt while Herod was King , and out of Egypt have I called my Son , sayth the Lord : Who hast thou preached all this while ? or who hath sent thee to preach ? Here thou hast shewed that thou never knewst Christ , nor Christ never sent thee ; O thou dark dumb Prophet ! thou wert speaking of the Prophet , and of Grace , which hath appeared to all men , Tit. 2. 11 , 12. which thou turnest into wantonness , for this Grace is the Saints Teacher , those who are taught of it deny thee , and thou art one that keeps the Light in Prison in thee , and the Devil is exalted above all that is called God in thee , who art for condemnacion and destruction , as it is written . Query 3. Whether the Devil be stronger than Christ , the flesh than the spirit ? or where dost thou finde he was ever a Prisoner in Satans chains ? Answ . We witness that he was in Satans chains , and is in thee , else how could they crucifie him afresh ? thou Enemy of Righteousness , who hast shewed forth thy ignorance , and thou art he that keeps him in them ; here thou shewest thy self to be ignorant of the Letter , but art one of them that imprisons the truth ; Christ sayth , I was in Prison , and is kept in Prison by thee , and ye visited me not , Matth. 25. 43. The Devil shall cast some of you into Prison , Rev. 2. 10. And Christ sayth , Saul why persecutest thou me ? and in that generacion thou art persecuting , but in all these things thou shewest thy self to be ignorant of the life and power within , but art querying without with thy busie minde , looking with the eye that cannot see , and hearkning with that ear which cannot hear , which shews that thou never knewst Christ , but dost imprison him ; The same which discended did ascend , which sayd , He had overcome the world , Iohn 16. 33. If thou hast an ear thou mayst hear , but thou art he that quenches the spirit , and despisest prophecying , who lives in the lusts of the flesh , who art for destruction and the fier , doth not the Letter say , he was taken from Prison , from Judgment , and was he not in Prison when Barnabas was delivered , when a company of rude fellows came from the high Priests ( such as thou art ) to take him and lead him to Prison , and he it is which is imprisoned still , the cause of it is , thou and such high Priests as thou art , Mark 15. 1. which stir up the rude company to bring him to the Magistrate , and to the Prison still , Matth. 26. 59. O thou Enemy of Righteousness ! dost thou inquire whether Christ was in Prison , thou art born after the flesh , and persecutest him who is born after the Spirit , here thou art answered . Query 1. Whether it be not a needless expression to speak of drawing the soul to Christ , if Christ be so near us as in us a Teacher and Leader already , Iohn 6. 44. Answ . Thou Enemy , the Tempter and Serpent , Christ hath called thee to repentance , and thou hast been convinced with the Light which is Christ , but thou livest in the flesh and in the filthiness , in the mystery of iniquity , who wouldst have the Scripture to be answered without thee , who art an Enemy to the life that gave it forth , Mark 15. 1. therefore to such as thou , and to thy generacion the Wo was ever preached , for thou art one of them which was in the generacion of the Pharises , who tempted Christ , who were Enemyes to him , though they professed the Prophets words , and Moses words , but thou art for destruction , and misery will be thy end . Query 2 ▪ Whether it be not an improper speech of Christ , to say , You will not come to me , when he is in them , and they in him before ? according to what you affirm . Answ . Thou blinde Hypocrite and Pharise , here thou hast shewed thy self to be a blinde Guide indeed , that neither knows Christ , nor the drawing of Christ ; how darest thou say there is improperness in his speech , but it is that thou being an Enemy of him mightst utter forth thy folly , who art one of them that will not come to him , that thou mightst have life , Iohn 5. 40. but thou art seeking the outward Letter , which is a testificacion of him , standing up in thy own imaginacions , and wouldst have the Scripture answer thee ; so thou Serpent wouldst have dust , but with imaginacions I will not feed thee ▪ but with judgment ( as it is written ) but thy minde I do deny , and to the Spirit that is in Prison I speak , 1 Pet. 3. 19. whom thou art an Enemy to , and to thee the Plagues of God are due . Query 1. Whether the time of dark Natures power be not a night to the soul ? Iohn 11. 10. Answ . This is thy own condicion , thou needest not to have asked it , for thy soul thou knowest not , but the dark power reigns and rules in thee , therefore thou stumblest , because there is no Light in thy understanding , John 12. 10. thou art in the night , and there is stumbling , and knowst not whither ▪ thou goost , one that hates the Light , a childe of disobedience . Query 2. Whence it is that they that walk in the Light stumble , if they have such a pure leading Light in them . Answ . Thou stumblest in these Queries , because thou art disobedient to the Light , and hatest it , as others do , and these are frivolous Queries that proceed from a frivolous minde , who bringest Scriptures , and art ignorant , as a natural bruit Beast made to be taken and destroyed ▪ ( as Peter sayth ) now the evil nature in thee at this may rage , but in that generacion thou art , one that hateth the Light , and stumbles and walks in darkness , and knowest not whither thou goest , John ● . 11. and here again thou hast shewed thy self ignorant of the Letter , and of Christs words . Query ● . Whether the Reason given by Christ be a tru and solid Reason , yea or no ? Answ . Thou with thy damnable Doctrine wouldst compare Christ like thy self , with thy filthy Reason , who art one of the false Prophets , who denyest the Lord , therefore thou art questioning Christs words , which shews thee a Pharise , who did question Christ ; thou Enemy of God , where canst then accuse Christ that he spoke unsolidly or unsoundly , or spoke a Ly ? O thou busiminded fellow ! what hast thou to do to question Christs words ? Mark ● . ● . but thou shewest forth thy busie filthy minde , Luke 23. 2. that thou mightst accuse him where he is made manifest ; thou Pharise and Hypocrite . Query 4. If so , whether they that say Every man hath a sufficient Light , be not Lyars and Deceivers of the People , yea or no ? Ans . Here thou shewest thy self to be a deceiver openly , and all thou speakest is deceit , & from thy dark minde , that comprehends not the Light that enlightens every one that comes into the world , who hates it stumbles at noon-day , John. 5. and there thou art , who hast put forth so many stumbling Queries , and in that generacion thou art ; the same Spirit is made manifest as was in the Apostles which doth comprehend thee , who shalt eternally witness me , who cannot flatter thee ; and hast shewed thy self openly to be without the Light of God in darkness , yet art pleading for it ▪ Therefore thou makest Christ a Lyar and a Deceiver , and art in that generacion that ever called him so ; Iesus Christ sayd , I am the Light of the world which enlightens every one that comes into the world , Iohn ● . 9. One he loves the Light and walks in it , and there is no occasion of stumbling ; the other hates the Light because his deeds are evil , and because it will reprove them , and this is the cond●mnacion of the world , and of thee . Query 1. Whether all men are lead by the Spirit of God ? Rom. 8 , 9 , 14. Answ . No thou art not lead by the Spirit of God , but art lead by the Prince of darkness who rules in the children of disobedience , Ephes . 2. ● . so thou art one that hatest the Light , and quenchest the Spirit , 2 Thess . 5. 19. crucifiest Christ , and shewest thy self openly blinde ; Dost thou profess thy self to be a Minister of God , and queriest whether all be lead by the Spirit ? here thou makest thy nakedness and foolishness appear . Query 2. Whether all men without exceptions are the sons of God ? Answ . No , thou art not , nor none of thy flock , we know thee so to be , Except ye be born again , Iohn 3. 3. ye must first be born again , but thou art a childe of wrath and disobedience ; and here thou hast shewed forth thy natural birth , and as a bruit beast which Iude speaks of , Iude 10. and this must thou own before thou knowst what it is to be a son or servant , which yet thou art an Enemy to . Query 1. Whether the preaching of the Gospel be not a spiritual husbandry and warfare ? 1 Cor. ● . 9 , 13 , 14. Answ . We do witness the preaching of the Gospel to be a spiritual warfare and husbandry , to pluck up such fruitless Trees and Briars and Thorns as thou art which cumber the ground , 1 Cor. 3. 9. and to war against such Pharises as thou art , which hath long stood in the Vineyard cumbring the ground , whose fruit stinks , as it is written , Every Tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewen down and cast into the fier , Matth. 3. 10. which thou art one , and the cursed Fig-tree , so the warfare is against such as thou art , who livest in spiritual wickedness , which Christ cryed Wo against , Matth. 11. 21. that had the chiefest places in the Assemblyes , Matth. 23 , and there is the war that wars against such as thou art . Query 2. Whether men go to war at their own Cost . 1 Cor. 7. 9 13 14. Answ : A Query out of the Scripture thou bringest , who goeth a warfare at his own Charge , but the same Apostle sayd , he did use none of these things , neither have I written these things , that it should be so done unto me , I preach the Gospel , I have nothing to glory of ; Wo is unto me if I preach not the Gospel , Cor. 19. 15 61. Thou wrestest his words , to maintain thy gifts , and thou hast planted no Vineyard , nor never wast in the Warfare , and art not come to know it , and the Flock the Apostle speaks of , thou knowest not , but art an enimy to it ; neither knowest thou the Milk that was given to the Flock , but thou art one of them that fayl with thy Feet , Ezek : 34. 18. that hast nothing but the Husk , which is fit for nothing but the Swine , but as a Theif wouldst be up in the Apostles Condicion . The Apostl spoke the Truth , which thou art out of , and to the flock he spoke of it , and the Vineyard thou art an enimy to , and that with all thy power and might , wouldst wrest the Scripture : but thou art thrust out , and discovered , with them who are within and seen by us , and so , I bid thee Farewell ; unto Perdicion thou must go . Query 3. Whether the Apostles did not give a tru Exposicion , of the 9 ▪ verse in the forecited ●hapter , and in the 10 verse ; And if so , then he that Plougheth , and Thresheth , may do it in hope , and expectacion of outward preservacion in his labour ; not to have his mouth muzelled . Answ : Thou wouldst not have thy mouth muzeled , the mouth of the false Prophets must be stopped , as the Apostle saith , Evil Beasts , Slow-b●llies , whose mouths must be stopped , Tit. 1. 11 12. and thou art one of them who takes the Apostles words for thy carnal ends , and wouldst have Exposicions upon his words , who perverts his words , and sayst , he gave Exposicions , who spoke plainly , and thou showest thy self to be one of them that the Apostle spoke unto Query 4. Whether there be not the same equity that those that wait on the Gospell should have maintenance , as well as those that wayted on the Temple , and on the Altar . Aensw : They that waited on the Altar , lived upon the Altar , and they that preached the Gospel , lived on the Gospel , 1 Cor. 9 ▪ 13. but repent , thou knowest neither , but art a deceiver , and makest a Trade upon the Scripture , but praised be the Lord God , who hath given a Light to discover thee , and to draw from under thy bands , for thou neither waitest upon the Altar , nor canst not witness the Gospel , but only that Scripture thou bringest to maintain thy gift , which thou confessest thou receivest : worse then Balaam , 2 Pet. 2. 15. Query 5. Whether the Ordinances of Christ in this be out of Date , yea or no ? Answ : Christ is the same he was , where he is made manifest , and his Ordinances the same , but thou art one that dost deny them , and disobey them ; Did not Christ command his whom he made Teachers , Mat. 23. 8. 10. that they should not be called of men Masters ? and that they would not have the cheifest place in the Assemblies ? for they were all Brethren . Come down thou painted Beast , and proud Pharisy , who ever wast an enimy of Christ . Wo is thy Porcion , for thou art out of date with them , for thou dost not observe them . Query 6. Whether simply taking of Wages make a Hierling yea ▪ ●r no ? Answ : Thou robest the World , whereas the Apostle saith , he robed the Churches , 2 Cor. 11 8. and thou robst the world , for the Church of God is the ground and Pillar of Truth ▪ 1 Tim. 3. 15. Thou blind Sot , and coloured Beast , doth not wages make a Hyerling ; thou canst not deny but thou art an Hyerling : thou receivest a gift , Balaams wages of unrighteousness , therefore Wo is thy Porcion . VVhat hast thou to do with the Apostles ? who spoke against gifts . Query 7 If so , How could Paul be excused from being a Hierling , he taking wages as well as others ? Answ : Art thou as Paul was ? or wouldst thou make him like thy self ? who robest the world , and he took of other Churches . O thou filthy Beast ! who slanderest the Church of Christ , and the Apostles with thy filthy minde , who wouldst make the Apostle an Hyerling , like thy self , who hast nothing to do with the Apostle , nor the Church of Christ ▪ but as a filthy fellow , thou makest a trade upon the Letter , and other mens Condicions , to deceive withall ; but thou art discovered to be worse than Balaam , who denyed the gift of Baalack , though he loved it , Num. 22. 18. but all thy Pleading , and Querying , is for the gift , showing thy self to be worse than Balaam . Query 8. Whether the worlds wages doth not imply some kinde of contract between them yea , or no ? because he had wages of other Churches , for preaching to those of Corinth , Phil. 4. 17 18. Answ : Thou askest , whether Paul did well or no , in receiving a gift of the Phillipians ; thou wrestest his words in saying he received a gift , for saith he , in the Scripture , not because I desire a gift , but I desire fruit that may abound to your account : But I have all , Phil. 4. 17 18. How fain wouldst thou make the Apostle like thy self , an Offender , so thy eye is blinded with a gift , ( as it is written ) and here I charge thee to accuse the Apostle falsly , Query 9. Whether if Paul received a gift , why may not others supply their necessaries ? Answ : Paul sayd , not because I desire a gift , in the same verse , which words thou pervertest , but that fruit might abound , for he denyed Balaams gifts . Thou enimy of Righteousness , how darest thou slander the Apostle who was a tru Minister of God ; all thy end in thy Querying is for thy gift , to maintain thee in Balaams Seat ; here I charge thee by the Lord to be a perverter of the Scripture , who art in the way of Kain , Iude 11. I can scarce compare thee to Balaam , for he denyed the gift which thou pleadest for , and wrestest the Scripture to maintain it , and therefore Wo is to thee , who lovest the wages of unrighteousness ; but thou art one who servest not the Lord Iesus Christ , but thy own Belly , and by good words , and fayr speeches deceivest the hearts of the simple , Rom : 16 18. Phil : 3 19. Query 10 Whether David was not in a heavenly condicion , while on the Earth , as well as any of you , being a man after Gods own heart ? Acts 2 34. Answ : He was in that heavenly Condicion , which thou shalt never see : David we witness and his Condicion , whom thou art an enimy to , and with thy aspiring mind wouldst know ; but it is the subtle Serpent which is shut forth , which Christ cryed , Wo unto you Serpents , which paint your selves with the Prophets words , Math 23 33 and so thou art painted , and wouldst be painted , and Wo is thy Porcion , as t was theirs , Math : ●3 . 33. Query 11 What Heaven is this , that he is not ascended into ? Answ : ●hou wouldst know what Heaven David is not ascended into : thou never kn●west Davids Condicion that he was in , that Minde of thine must first know Hell , where the wicked are turned into Psal : 9 17. Thou hast nothing to do to know where David is ascended , for thou never knewest his first estate , nor thou art not brought into his Condicion , but he that knowes the Heaven of heavens , knows what heaven it is ; he that hath an Eare let him hear , but thou art in the generacion of them that hated David . Query 3. If not ascended into Heaven , where was he all that time , being dead long before ? discover this by Scripture any of you all , if cleared to any of you . Answ . Here thou Beast art got up , and shewest forth thy pride , when thou knowest the Heavens thou shalt know where David is , wouldst thou have a meaning to that which the Apostle spoke , another meaning to his words ? he sayd it was so plainly , and we witness the same ; David is not yet ascended , what sayst thou to that ? we witness it is as the Apostle spoke , Acts 12. 34. wouldst thou pervert his words ? here thou hast shewed forth thy dark minde ; Davids Sepulcher we know and see , and it is with us as the Apostle sayd , Acts 2. 29. if thou hast an ear thou mayst hear ; but thou art blinde , and therefore dost thou rage and cavil , and there thou wouldst have another meaning to the Scripture , in this Query , which shews that thou hast not the same Spirit that gave them forth , and plainly hast shewed forth thy blindness and ignorance ; wouldst thou have the Scripture cleared up to thy dark minde and carnal eye ? as Job sayd , It is hid from thee ; the Scriptures are as they speak , we witness them ; here I charge thee again , thou wouldst have another meaning to Scriptures than they are , and thou wouldst have us to clear them to thy covetous eye , but thou must have thy eye cleared , for Darkness cannot comprehend the Light , John 1. 5. ( as the Scriptures sayth ) for the natural man knows not the things of God , 1 Cor. 2. 14. thou knowest them not , nor no Serpent , nor Scribes and Pharises , who are in thy nature ; but God is Light , in him is no darkness at all , who hath made himself manifest unto us , & we do witness that they are of no private interpretacion , 2 Pet. 1. 20. and we deny all thy clearing which thou wouldst have us to give of them , for we own them with that Spirit which gave them forth . And in the same Query thou speakest of George Fox , who as thou sayst , is our cunning and subtle Leader ; the name of George Fox is carnal , and thou with thy carnal eye , and by thy carnal imaginacions lookst and imaginest our Leader to be carnal , such as thine is , the carnal Letter , but herein thou art under the power of witchcraft , and the deceit hath blinded thy eye , for our Leader is not carnal , but eternal and spiritual , Rom. 8. 14. which leading yet thou never knewst nor canst not witness , therefore dost thou blaspheme ▪ but art lead by thy imaginacions , as in this thing thou makest plainly appear , and art guided and lead by him who is the subtlest of any Beast of the field , the cunning Serpent , under whose dominion and government thou art , and that which all the tru servants of God in all generacions were guided by do we witness to be our Leader , who was before time , when as George Fox is in time , and so not the Leader of the Saints , but him we own as one with us in the eternal unity . Query 1. What they were that had not sinned after the similitude of Adams transgressions , he being the publick head of mankinde in the first Creation . Answ . Thou wouldst know what they were that had not sinned after the similitude of Adams transgressions , but thy knowledg is bruitish , and they are hid from thee , without thy understanding eternally ; and here thou hast shewed forth thy self not to have the same Spirit that gave forth the Scriptures , for if thou hadst thou mightst see them , and if thou knewst Adam as he was in the beginning , as he was in the head , ( as thou sayst ) thou mightst see them , but thou dost not see thy self in the fall , and the death passed over thee , which hath passed over all men , Rom. 5. 12. and art in the trangression of Adam in the fall , eating of the Tree of knowledg which God forbad , but those we do know , which thou with that eye shalt never see , who art a busi-body . Query 2. Wherein was Adam a Figure of him that was to come ? Answ . Wouldst thou have the Figure cleared to thy dark minde , he was the Figure of him that was to come ; here thou shewest thou neither knowest the Figure nor the Substance , if thou hadst known the Figure or the Substance thou wouldst have known the Apostles meaning , we witness as it is ; and here I charge thee again that thou wouldst have another meaning than the Apostle spoke , who wouldst have the Scripture cleared , shewing that thou hast not the same Spirit that the Apostles had , R●m . 5. 14. here thou makest thy self manifest to be a stranger to the life of God , death reigns in thee , and thou neither knowest Adam ▪ nor Moses , and there is the Scripture cleared up to thee , it is thou that must be cleared ; and there is thy meaning to it . Query 1. Who were they that were baptised for the dead ? 1 Cor. 15. 29. Answ . Wouldst thou have another meaning of them , who are baptised for the dead ? it seems that the dead is not risen in thee ; and here th●n standst in thy imaginacions , and that dead minde in thee shall never know any thing of the Scripture , nor any thing of God , but art dead from the truth , 1 Cor. 15. 29. but we witness it to be fulfilled . Query 2. What his meaning is in being baptised for the dead ? Answ . Here is the evil minde in thee , that would be aspiring to know the Baptisme of the Dead ; here thou shewest thou never knewst Christ , nor the Apostles , nor Baptisme , nor Death in thy self , Rom. 6. 3. but makest thy ignorance and foolishness to appear , when ever thou knowest Death to that which is alive in thee , and that thou must before ever thou comest to know the Scriptures , that which would have a meaning to it , we do deny , for we witness it through the death of that nature which is alive in thee , who art blinde and canst not see , which never shall know the meaning of that Scripture ( but Death ) with thy carnal eye , Rom. 8. 6. Query 3. How this makes to the proving of the Point of the Resurrection , the Apostle instancing it to this end ? Answ . When thou knowest the Baptisme , thou shalt know the Resurrection , but to make a Point of Resurrection I utterly deny ; here thou hast shewed thy witchcraft , I charge thee in the presence of the Lord God Almighty to make an Image for thy dead minde , as touching the point of the Resurrection ; Psalm 73. ●0 . the Resurrection thou wouldst have a Point made of it , and the proof of this Point to thy dead carnal minde : I utterly deny thy Points with thy dead minde , raised out of the dead Letter , which was given forth from a living and an eternal Spirit , but thy dead minde is an Enemy to the Resurrection ; and here thou shewest thy self plainly unlearned , 2 Pet. 3. 16. and untaught of God , for before thou know the Resurrection , thou must deny all thy dead Points and Proofs ; and openly hast thou declared it in these Queryes , that thou neither knewst Life nor Resurrection . Query 4. What guile and craft was it he taught them by ? 2 Cor. 12. 1● . Answ . O thou vain man ! thou wouldst know what guile and craft the Saints were taught by , not thy guile , and witchcraft , and Sorcery , which thou livest in , Ier. 27. 9. which thou drawest People from the truth withall , by thy fair colours and imaginacions , and so feedest them with thy corrupt stuff● and it is that which thou art an Enemy to , and never knewst , for thou art in the gall of bitterness , buying and selling the Letter , catching with thy witchcraft , and this is thy guile , giving thy imaginacions upon the Scriptures which Paul gave forth , Rom. ● . 21. shewing forth thy spiritual whoredom from the life of them that gave it forth ; thou art not come so far as Simon Magus , who would have bought the gift of God for money , but the wisdom of God takes the wise in their own craftiness ; and here thou hast shewed thy self to be ignorant of the Ministers of God , and thy self to be full of subtilty and a fool . Query 1. What enlightning this is ? Heb. 6 , 4 , 5 , 6. Answ . It is the enlightning which thou knowest not of , which is not born up in thy understanding , which thou art an Enemy to , which is the Light of God , which Light thou hatest , Iohn 3. 20. Query ● . What heavenly gift it is they tasted ? Answ . If thou knewst the gift of God , Iohn 4. 10. thou wouldst not buy and sell the Letter , for the gift of God is not to be bought and sold , and that gift shalt thou never know , which is the gift of God , Rom. 6. 23. Query 3. How or in what sense they were made Pertakers of the Holy Ghost . Answ . Wouldst thou draw the Holy Ghost to thy sense , and to thy carnal reason ? with which thou shalt never know it , but art blind , without God in the world , & wouldst intrude into the Saints condicions , Ephes . 2. 12. Query . What world to come is this they tasted of ? Answ . Not of the dark world which thou art in : that world which thou shalt never see , for that world and the Holy Ghost we witness , therefore we see thee in the dark world without God , Rom. 5. 13. Query 5. Whether such as these did fall away ? Answ . Thou hast shewed forth thy ignorance of the Form of the Letter , many did taste of the power of God , and did eat of the spiritual meat , and did drink of the spiritual drink , and were destroyed , 1 Cor. 10. ● , 4. this meat and drink thou knowest not , nor art not come to eat of it . Query 6. How or in what sense they cruci●ied the Son of God afresh ▪ and put him to open shame ? Answ . Thou wouldst know in what sense they crucified the Son of God afresh , and thou art he that crucifiest him where he is risen and made manifest , and they are they which crucifie him afresh , who have tasted of the heavenly gift , and draw back from it , which gift yet thou art not come to know , hadst thou an ear thou mightst hear , Rev. 2. 11. but thou art in the estate of the chief Priests and Pharises , who could tell by the Letter where he should be born , but were they that put him to death . In these six questions thou hast shewed forth thy self that thou dost not know the Light which the Saints were and are enlightned by , nor thou dost not know the heavenly gift ; now here thou hast shewed thy self openly to be a blinde Minister of the Letter , and what dost thou speak to People but the carnal Letter , which dost not know the gift of God , and thou hast shewed that thou dost not know the Holy Ghost , but wouldst have a carnal sense upon that which is eternal ; and here thou hast shewed thy self to be a natural man indeed ; for shame blush and give over thy Trade , and prating about other mens matters ; thou busi-body , thou hast openly shewed thou dost not know the world which is to come , Heb. 6. 5. but hast shewed thy self to be one that keeps People in the dark world ; and here thou makest it manifest that thou never tastedst of the world to come ; and here thou hast raced out thy self , and shut thy self up in the dark world ; and here thou art taken in thy craftiness , and catched in thy subtle guile , because thou hast shewed thy self that thou never wert in the way ; therefore thou dost not see them ; and here it is that makes it manifest , thou art in the fall , and in the by-path , and in the dark , and in the broad way , and there thou keepst poor People ; and thou hast shewed that thou art he that crucifies Christ , Mark 15. 13 , 14. and bringst all others to crucifie him , and dost not know that condicion of them that crucified him afresh , but art spending all thy strength to keep People from him , which eternally thou and they and all People shall witness us to speak the truth ; wheras thou hast sayd thou hast given me a taste , least thou shouldst tyer me ; but Friend , thy spirit I did taste before I did see thy Queryes , which is the spirit of Antichrist , and knowing nothing of the tru Christ , which thou hast openly shewed , that spirit of thine cannot weary us , for it is for destruction . Thou blinde Sot , how darest thou speak to People , that neither knowst the enlightning nor the Holy Ghost , nor the gift of God , nor the world which is to come , therefore what dost thou lead them out of ? nor what is it to crucifie Christ afresh , nor the condicion of them that fall away , which shews that thou art not out of the fall ; therefore all People who hear this fellow , take notice of this blinde Guide , how ignorant he hath shewed himself of the Doctrine of Christ , 2 John 1. 9. and raced himself out to be no Minister of Christ , as not knowing the Apostles condicions ; all these things we witness fulfilled , Acts 13. 33. the Holy Ghost , the Enlightning , the world to come , and the heavenly gift , but not by any such Teacher as thou art , Prayses be to the Lord alone for ever ▪ the Lord alone is our Teacher , therefore do we deny and testifie against all such as thou art , all these things hath God fulfilled in us , Rom. 8. 4. therefore we witness them , Prayses be to the Lord God for ever . Query 1. Whether the Old Testament discovering the minde of God to man , be of any esteem with you ? yea or no. Answ . We witness the New Testament and Old both , and thee to be without both , but onely to make a Trade of them , and there they are in esteem to thee , for thou hast never come out of Egypt yet , for when he lead them out of Egypt he gave them a Covenant , Judges 1. 2. but thou neither knowest Moses , nor the Prophets nor Christ , but they are in esteem with us , and we witness against thee . Query 2. Whether thou canst or dare deny the generality of the Precepts given in this particular before cited ? Answ . The Precepts of God we own all , but thou neither ownest Prcepts , Law , nor Command , nor Statutes , nor Ordinances ; therefore a busie fellow thou art , querying whether we own them or no , that thou mightst accuse ; for if thou didst own them , thou wouldst own us and Christ , but thy Precepts and Commands we deny , and Doctrines , and Ordinances , for they are not to be tasted , touched , nor handled , for they are to perish with the using of them , Col. 2. 21 , 22. Query 3. Whether it be not the work of Satan on your spirits , to endeavour to stop the greatest part in the world from giving that to God which he calls for ? Answ . It is the work of God to stop the mouths of the world , that we witness ; and it is the work of Satan to open the mouths of the world , and he opens their mouths , who keeps open thy mouth , whose mouth must be stopped , Tit. 1. 11. and that which the world gives to the living God is abominacion , for the whole world lyes in wickedness , and thou wouldst have the worlds mouth kept open , and that which is abominacion to the Lord God set up ; but the Lord is coming in power to throw down the abominacion , and to stop the mouths of the world , which thou wouldst justifie and set open , shewing thy self to be a Freind of the God of this world : It is the work of God to stop the mouths of the world . Freind thou wouldst have an Answer to these Scriptures and Queries , Ro● : 7. 18 , 25. 1 Iohn 19. Query 1 Whether thou dost own the Scripture for a Truth ? Answ : We witness the Scripture to be a Truth , and thee to be a Lyar , not knowing any thing of them . Query 2 Do you not deceive your selves in saying you have no sin ? Answ : Here thou errest in not knowing that Epistle which thou bringest to accuse us withall , for the same that gave it forth , sayd , If ye confess your sins , he is faithfull and just to forgive and to cleanse you from all uncleanesse 1 Iohn , 1. 9. here thou hast shewed thy selfe that thou art not come yet to the confession of thy sinns , therefore farre short from cleansing from all thy filthinesse of Flesh and Spirit ; but blessed be God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ , who is making manifest himself to destroy the works of the Devill , 1 Iohn 3 8. and here thou shewest that Iesus Christ is not made manifest to thee , and that the works of the Devill are yet standing in thee . O thou enimy of God and Righteousness ! what hast thou preached all this while to poor ignorant blind people ? now thou hast shewed here that thy Faith is vain , and that thou art yet in thy sins , ( as the Scripture shews plainly ) He that beleives is born of God , and cannot commit Sin , 1 Iohn 3 9 Query 3 : How canst thou justifie thy self to be in the Truth , and the Truth in thee , when thy words make it a very Token and Signe that the Truth is not in thee ? Answ : Thy Token and thy Signe is without thee , and here thou shewest thy self to be in the generacion of the Pharises , looking for outward Signes , and outward Tokens , and sayst , how can we justifie our selves , Thou dark Sot , did ever Truth come to justifie Selfe ? Truth ever comes to condemn Selfe ; Here thou hast showed forth thy Confusion in this Query , and in thy dark minde : If we say we have not sinned , we deceive our selves , and make him a Lyar , and the Truth is not in us , 1 Iohn 1. 10. But where Iesus Christ is made manifest , he is made manifest to destroy the works of the Devill , and he that sinneth is of the Devil , 1 Iohn 3. 8. Here are the Children of God made manifest , and the children of the Devil , for he that commiteth Sin never knew God ; if we had not sined , we had needed no Saviour , and here thou showest thy self to be a Child of the Devil , and never knewest God , but standest for the Devils Kingdom , making thy self manifest , not to be in that condicion as they were that spoke forth the Scriptures , but art without God in the world , Ephes . 2. 12. hating those now who have the life of them made manifest , and Jesus Christ , who is come and made manifest to destroy the works of the Devil ; this I witness to be fulfilled , and the taking away of sin , and the cleansing from all unrighteousness , therefore I clear my conscience . Prayse to the glorious God for ever , who is coming to lead poor simple People from their blinde Guides , for to the children of God ye are discovered to be the children of the Devil . Query 1. Are the Scriptures owned for a Truth ? yea or no. James 3. 2. Answ . Here thou hast shewed forth thy busie minde , one question had been enough to have asked , whether the Scriptures be tru yea or no ? We witness the Scriptures to be tru , and we witness thee to be a Lyar , and erring from the Scripture not knowing them , Matth. 22. 29. Many Scriptures thou hast stollen to maintain thee in thy sin , and to uphold the Devils Kingdom , who livest wholly in offences , and bringst them into the same offences like thy self , and wouldst make the Apostles offenders like thy self , for the Apostle sayth , Whosoever offends not in words , the same is a perfect man , and able to bridle the whole body , and whosoever hath not power over his own tongue , his Religion is vain , James 3 , 2. and here thou shewest thy Religion to be vain . Query 2 : Is there a greater Priviledg or Freedom now for Christians , than there was for the Apostles or Brethren in those times ? if so , discover it by Scripture . Answ . Here thou hast shewed thou knowst nothing , for thou art desiring to know their Priviledg , which minde in thee never shall , for the same Priviledg the Apostles did enjoy we enjoy , and the unity is but one , Ephes . ● . 13. and the same word they did enjoy we do enjoy , and the same Christ we enjoy , and the same God they did enjoy we do enjoy ; here thou wouldst make two , which shews thou art in the con●●sion ; there is a greater Priviledg and Freedom now than there was then , yet the same ; and in thy query thou hast shewed , thou knowest nothing of Scripture : and again thou sayst that as for what any of us say , besides , or above it , or against it , thou weighest it not , And all Scripture is for the perfecting of the man of God , Ephes . 4. 1● . which we witness , but thou shewest thou knowst nothing of the Scriptures , but hast spoken besides it , and against it , as oft I have shewed thee in thy former Writings and Queries , and added to it ▪ and perverted it , therefore are the Plagues du to thee , and are thy porcion . Clear thy self if thou canst , let that in thy conscience clear thee , but it cannot I know : thou wouldst be satisfied ( if we can ) what are the Reasons that so many questions should never be answered till our days , though God had still a People in the world ; and where didst thou see such questions put forth before , for the darkness has reigned long , and Gods People did ever stand against such things ; thou mayst reade of many Martyrs that suffered Death , who witnessed the truth against the pretended truth , for the dark time and power of Babylon hath long reigned , and the works of the Beast ; but now God is raising up Light in Peoples hearts , 2 Cor. 4. 6. by which ye are descended that profess the Scripture to be your Rule and Touch-stone to try withall , for the queries are put forth to you that ye might see your selves , 1 Cor. 4. 5. that there is no Scripture for what you act , and that you might shew forth your filthiness ; and here in thy queryes and writings thou hast made it appear openly , the dark power that hath reigned in thee hath been an upholder of this Babylon , that never knew any thing of the life of the Scripture come to be opened to thee , but now thy torment is but beginning , and so fare thee well , and if thou hast an ear thou mayst hear , Rev. 2. 11. but thy carnal filthy blinde minde in this will not be satisfied , nor never must , but must first know destruction , and is for desruction , which is an Enemy to God ; therefore do we not flatter thee , nor few Pillows under thy arm-holes , that thou maystly soft . Query . A question thou askest , Which is most likely to be Antichrist , and of the Devil , he that ▪ preaches a Power in all men to obey . Answ . Now here thou shewest thy self openly to be Antichrist , and of the Devil , and knows not the first Principle , for Jesus Christ sayth , I am the light of the world that enlightens every one that comes into the world , he that loves the light brings his deeds to the light , that the light might prove them , and he that walks in the light there is no occasion of stumb●ing , and the other he hates the light ▪ because his deeds are evil , and the Light will reprove them , Iohn 3. ●● . The Light is the condemnacion of the World , which Light is Christ , who sayth ▪ He is the Light ; here thou hast made thy self openly to be blinde , and one of the children of disobedience , who disobey the Light , and wouldst have all others to disobey it , and to follow thy imaginacions , and so thou dost not onely deny it thy self , but thou wouldst have all others to deny it ; For the Grace of God which bringeth salvacion , hath appeared to all , and teacheth us ( the Saints ) to deny all ungodliness and worldly lusts , Tit. 2. 11 , 12. this is the Saints Teacher , but thou shewest thy self to be blinde and ignorant of the Letter : this Grace hath appeared to all freely , and this Grace of God is the free Teacher , but such as thou art in the world , turns this grace into wantonness , and sets up Teachers without you , and so denyes the Grace of God to teach , and so lives in ungodliness and unrighteousness , and tempts God for Grace when the Grace of God hath appeared to all ; and here thou shewest thy self to be a Tempter of God , Iames 5. 5. and void of grace and understanding , turning it into wantonness , which should teach thee , and drawst ot hers from it . Query . Another question thou ask●st : Who is more likely to be Antichrist and of the Devil , he that sayth he is Christ and the Light of the world , or he that preaches that false Christs should come ? Answ . The same that sayd false Christs should come , the same Christ sayd he was Christ , and the Light of the world , this Christ and this Light we witness ; here thou callest Iesus Christ Antichrist , and hast shewed forth thy blasphemy , Iames 2. 7. Thou blasphemer , how darest thou profess thy self to be a Minister of Christ , and blasphemest Christ ? 2 Tim. 3. 2. and questionest whether he that sayth he is Christ , be not of the Devil or no ; and here thou hast shewed thy self to be in the generacion of the Iews that blasphemed Christ , and called him Devil , Iohn 10. 33 , 36. for the same Christ we witness made as manifest as ever , and thee to be a Reprobate without Christ , and thou hast made thy self openly to appear to be a Reprobate without God and Christ in the world , Ephes . 2. 12. Query . Another question thou askest ▪ who is like to be the man thou speakest of , he that sayth he is equal with God and Christ , or he that preached Christ the Head ? Ans . Here in this question thou hast openly shewed thy self not to have the same minde the Apostle had , for sayth he , I would the same minde were in you that was also in Christ Iesus , who thought it no robbery to be equal with God , and yet made himself of no reputa●ion ▪ Phil. 2. 5. and here thou hast shewed thy self that thou hast neither the minde of Christ , nor his Apostles , but art an Antichrist , and an Enemy against them that witness these things , which the Apostle said , I would that ye were of the same minde ; and again the Apostle sayth , Our fellowship is with the Father and the Son , 1 Iohn 1. 3. and he did write to others that their fellowship might be with them , and he that hath the Father hath the Son also , and he that is joyned to the Lord is one Spirit , and he that is joyned to an Harlot is one flesh , and there thou art , harloted from all the Saints , Christ and the Apostles , and hast shewed thy self to be an Enemy against them who are in the same minde and condicion as the Apostles and Saints were ; here be thou a witness against thy self , that thou art witnessing against the life of the Saints , he that preached Christ witnessed the Head and the Members , and wished the same minde to be in them as was in Christ , who thought it no robbery to be equal with God , Phil. 2. 6 , 7. which thou art ignorant of , but thou hast shewed thy self that thou neither knowest the Head nor the Members , nor the Body , but wouldst seek to take the preheminence from Christ , who hast got the chief place in the Assembly , and art called of men Master , but Christ sayd , Call no man Master on earth , for you have one Master even Christ , Matth. 23. 7. and there thou hast taken the preheminence which Christ sayth , He that will be greatest must be servant to all , Matth. 23. 8 , 11. but thou art got above all , in the place of them that the Wo was preached to , and there is thy porcion , own it . FINIS . Certain QUERIES occasioned by a Printed Paper of Richard Farnsworth , sent to be answered , and no Name subscribed : From dark mindes which be full of subtlety , not knowing the first Principle . 1 Query . WHether that Light within unto which thou exhortest all to attend , be in unbelievers , as well as in believers ? yea or no. Answ . Friend , in this first Query thou wouldst know , whether the Light be in others , which shews forth thy dark minde , which cannot comprehend the Light , neither hast thou the Light which the Scripture speak of ? Iesus Christ sayth , I am the Light that enlightneth every one that cometh into the world , Iohn 1. 9. the one he loves the Light , and brings his works to the Light , and walks in the Light , and there is no occasion of stumbling , Iohn 11. 9. the other he hates this Light , because his deeds are evil , and this is his condemnacion , the Light ; be silent all flesh ! Friend , thou art one that hates this Light , thy spirit is tryed , for if thou wert in the Light , there would be no occasion of stumbling , but thou art Antichrist , without this Light , Iohn 4. 3. therefore thou dost not see the Light which hath enlightned every one , the believer and the unbeliever , which is his condemnacion that believes not . 2 Query . If in unbelievers as well as in believers , whether is it one and the same Light , with that Anoynting thou speakest of ? yea or no. Answ . It is one with the Anoynting , and if it were not one with the Anoynting , it were one against the Anoynting , an imagined Light , wherein thou hast shewed thy blindness , and thy ignorance thou makest appear , which neither knowest the Light nor the Anoynting , for thy dark minde cannot comprehend it , Light shines in darkness and darkness comprehends it not , Iohn 1. 5. and there thou art exalted in the foolish wisdom which is of the world , which is foolishness to the wisdom of God , swelling in the lying vanityes , one of them that are disobedient to the Light , without God in the world , the son of perdicion , which is exalted above all that is called God. 3 Query . Whether it be not the new Law of Righteousness written in the heart to condemn sin in the flesh , which thou sayst a man may say he is above the Law by the Gospel , be not the pure and true Gospel manifested by Iesus Christ ? yea or no. Answ . That is thy own condicion , for thou art got above professing the Gospel , or the new Law of Righteousness , which knowest neither in the power of truth through the death , for if thou didst , there would not be such a confusion in thy Queryes , and in thy words , for thou professest the Gospel , with thy busie minde , and wouldst be informed as touching those things , and wouldst be up in the highest place professing the Gospel , but thou must come down to the first Principle , Heb. 5. 12. and see thy self a childe of disobedience , in whom the Prince of the Ayer yet lodgeth , for hence it is so many do profess the Gospel and the new Law of Righteousness , and are not come through the Law , for the Law hath power over a man as long as he lives , and who are made free from the Law are made free from sin through the Law , 1 Iohn 3. 4. I am dead to the Law , where this is witnessed , and the Gospel known and the new Law of Righteousness ; but Friend , this is out of thy dark minde , for thou art drunk yet with the Earthly spirit , and appearest something in thy comprehension , which is gathered in with imaginacions and conceivings , but the promise is , thou must be scattered , and if ever thou witness that fulfilled , thou wilt witness what I say , but thy dark minde comprehends me not . 4. Query . Whether thou makest any distinction between the new Law of Righteousness , written in the heart , by the life of Jesus , and the Law administred by Moses , which sayth , Do this and live ; and if thou make any , wherein lyes it ? Answ . Thou wouldst be comprehending with thy Reason , to know a difference without thee , which shews forth thy blindness , Death reigned from Adam till Moses , and that it doth in thee yet , for that which should see is in the death : the Law and the Prophets they were untill Iohn , and Iohn untill Christ , he that can receive it let him , if thou canst receive it thou mayst , and when thou comest to go through Moses , and through the Prophets , and through Iohn to come to Christ , then shalt thou see the Light is but one , but thou art making a difference betwixt Christ and Moses as the Pharises did , who knew not Moses , nor the Prophets , nor Iohn , nor Christ , and in that generacion of the Pharises thou art ; I must deal plainly with thee , thy spirit is known and tryed , which is not the spirit that raised up Iesus ; therefore thou who wouldst be comprehending with thy Reason , thou and thy Reason are comprehended , which shall never search into the things of God , the pure wisdom of God is shut up from that vulterous eye , Iob 28. 7. and venomous Beast , who art come out of the bottomless Pit , and thither must return again , and in the viperous generacion thou art : And as touching the outward commands and observances , where the life of Iesus is made manifest , the substance of all Types and ●igures is come , Rom. 10. 4. there is no more observing them , being made free from all them by him who was under the Law , made under the Law to fulfill the Law , and the righteousness of the Law fulfilled in us , who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit , Rom. 8. 2. and who are here denyes all the carnal outward Observances & Tradicions , as the Temple outwardly which God had commanded , and Circumcision outwardly , and the Priests outwardly , for they had received Iesus Christ the high Priest who is the end of the Law , Rom. 10. 4. so the carnal minde had carnal Types and Figures and Shadows of heavenly things , but he that is made free from the Law , is made free from the curse , which thou art not , which gave forth these Queries , if thou hadst thou wouldst not have shewed forth thy busie minde ; but it is now as the Apostle sayd , it was then , there was some doting about questions , and the Law , which thou shewest thy self to be one of them who hast uttered forth thy folly , therefore be ashamed and lay thy hand upon thy mouth . 5 Query . Whether New Jerusalem and the holy Temple therein be but newly come down from Heaven , as in this our Age , or the like , wherein the tru worshipers worshiped the Father in spirit and truth , or hath it always been the place and Temple , wherein the Saints of God have worshiped the Father in spirit and truth , Iohn 4. 23. from the beginning of the world , seeing our Saviour speaks that Abraham saw his day and rejoyced , and that the time is coming , yea now is , that neither at Samaria nor at Jerusalem ? Answ . Thou wouldst know whether New Ierusalem be newly come down in this our Age , and it is that which ever was , and ever did come down to the Saints , they witnessed this ; but Friend , to thee in thy age and generacion where thou art in , it is not come , ( but thou art a stranger querying without ) nor never did , nor never shall come , in that generacion thou art among the Serpents which the Wo was ever preached to , Matth. 23. even that generacion which got the form to speak of Ierusalem , and the Temple , but are the Synagogues of Satan , and full of dead mens bones , and who are whited outsides , and beautifull outwardly , but full of corruption within ; and in that generacion wherein was and is all the righteous bloud shed , and in that nature which thou wouldst know these things in , it was ever hid from , who have the chiefest places in the Assemblyes , and called of men Master , Matth. 23. 7. and in that generacion thou art , which the Wo was ever preached to , try thy self , for to that in thy conscience which should exercise it do I speak , 2 Cor. 4. 2. and when it doth appear , it will witness me , 2 Cor. 5. 11. the time is coming , and now is , that not at Ierusalem in your highest profession of Christ , nor your highest glorious nocions of him , which you live in , nor none of your Steeple-houses , nor none of your Exercises , as you call them , nor the daintiest Dish you have will be meat for the tru worshipers of God , for they have run to this Steeple-house and that Steeple-house , and to this mountain and that mountain , and here is a dainty Dish , and there is a dainty Dish , sayth the Harlot , which hath long deceived the simple ones , but now all you Harlots are discovered , which have deceived the Nations , and now Abraham shall arise , who is the Friend of God , whom thou knowest not , but art in the generacion of them who professed Abraham and freedom , and God to be their Father , but were of their Father the Devil , Iohn 8. 44 , 4● . doing his work , who was a Murderer , crucifying the just , who are in the fall , and not come to the beginning , for thy Father was a Murderer since the beginning , and Dives must be turned into Hell , and the Dives with your dainty Dishes must be layd low , and you who profess the New Ierusalem , will be found to be in the old Ierusalem , where the Lord Iesus Christ was and is crucified in your Ierusalem now , in the highest place of Worship , the tru worshipers of the Father in Spirit and Truth , witness it to be so , and the time is come that the Scripture is fulfilled , and the words of Christ , Iohn 4. 23. Praises , Praises , to the Eternall glorious God of Heaven , and Earth , for ever , and ever , who now hath made his Power known , by which we see the Deceits of you all . 6 Query Whether it be not Gods Ordinance that the inward , living , spiritual , powerful word of God , whereby all the Saints of God are taught , and the tru inward spirituall Worship of the Saints , should in the outward appearance of them be held forth in earthen vessels , as under a form of Speech , or word , yea or no ? Ans : Freind , in this Query thou hast uttered forth thy weakness , and thy ignorance in the form of the Letter doth appeare , yet Serpent-like thou art full of Subtilty ; but thy nakedness doth appeare openly . The word of God is as a Fire , and cannot be limited , no not with thy carnal Reason : It is as a Hammer to beat thee to peices , and as a Sword to cut thee asunder , whensoever thou comest to know this powerfull word of God. And this is the word which the Prophets spoke from , who cryed Wo against all them that sayd the Lord sayth , and he never spoke to them , and cryed against all them that bear rule by their meanes , Ier. 5 30 31. the horible filthy thing is committed in the Land , which is and was held up with Preist and People , but now the same living , spirituall , eternall Word , is made manifest , and is preached abroad , against all you Hyerlings and greedy dumb Dogs , which have not a word from the Lord , but seek for your gain from your quarters , and get up into the cheifest place of the Assemblies , and are called of men Masters , and stand praying in the Synagogues ; he that is the Word cryed Wo against all such , and them that had this Word , he bade them not to be as they were , Math. 23. 8 9 10. And this Word is made manifest in the Saints , which is declared abroad : but thou who livest in Appearance , and wouldst see things in Appearance , in thy carnall wisdom and Reason , ●hou art shut out from this knowledg , for to thee it is death to thy carnall minde ; therefore freely do I publish the Eternall Truth abroad , and as knowing you that you have not a word from the ●ord , but are in that generacion of those that did shut up the kingdom of Heaven against men , neither go in your selves , nor suffer others , laying heavy burthens upon the People , and will not toutch them with one of your fingers , but what you do , you do it to be seen of men , making broad your Philacteries , and devouring Widdows houses , Math. 23. 45. who art desolate from Christ , who hast got the Form of Christs words , but art in the steps of the Scribes and Pharises , who had got the form of Moses and the Prophets , and were enemies and strangers to the Life of God. Moses and the Prophets , and their Form you have got in your comprehension , in the earthly vessel , and that 's your heavenly Treasure , but now you are tryed , with what you hold forth in a Form of words ( but the word of God is powerfull ) and in him is no Form , but thou art a Theif and a Robber , who stealest the Prophets words , Ier. 23. 30. who art without , who knowest not the Word , nor the Lord , nor the tru Ministers of the Word , shutting out thy self in the dark world , and Querying whether the Word should be held forth in earthen vessels , if thou hadst an Eye , or if thou hadst an Eare thou mightst hear and see it preached dayly ; but as I said to thy first Query , thou knowst not the Light , whith enlightneth every one that commeth into the world , but art ignorant , deaf , and blinde , one that hates the Light , that makes thee let forth so many stumbling Queries , for hadst thou the Light , thou wouldst not stumble , but be as a Citty set upon a Hill ; but thou art without , who hast shewed forth such a dark minde , but that minde is for destrukcion , for if thou didst walk in the Light , and love it , it would lead thee to the Day , which would let thee see all things , and there would be no ocasion of stumbling , but thou art him that hates the Light , so all thy Preaching as thou callest it leads from God , being blinde and leads the blinde , and must both go into the Ditch together ; but we who are Ministers of the Eternal Word , see it , and dwell in the Light , and declare freely without a Bag or a Staffe : without Brass , and Silver , or two Coats , for the workman is worthy of his meat , freely you have received , freely give , Math. 10. 8. therefore we do deny your preaching , and for the simple ones sake who are in the Simplicity , who have been ensnared by you who are in the Subtilty , and such as you are , who have let forth these Queries , for we know your Spirits , though you have not let forth your names : so who are in the simplicity , seeking after the Truth , for their sakes have I let forth my self , and shewed forth your folly . Query 7. Whether the Idols Temple , and the Worship that 's done therein , be onely visible things , as a house of Wood , and Stone , and outward appearances , as Forms , and Rites , and Customes that were observed therein ? Or the Idols Temple , and the Worship that 's done therein , be not also in mans Spirit , and Mysticall , Inward , and Invisible , as to sence according as it is begotten of the spirituall Prince of Darkness , yea or no ? Answ : Whereas thou wouldst be informed , who art querying without , in whom lodgeth the Mystery of iniquity , which minde holds up the Forms , and the Rites , and the Customs , and the Idols Temple of Lime , and Stone , which is the mysticall Spirit , which thou speakst of , for if thou own the Light which enlighteneth every one that comes into the world ( which is Christ ) it would bring thee into the Cross , which is to thy carnall minde , and let thee see the Prince of the Ayer rule in thee , who art a Childe of disobedience , where the Mystery of iniquity lodgeth , and this light would let thee see the carnall minde in whom all the Images lodge , and the Idols Temple , and the carnall part being wrought out within , and the Devils tremble , and the Earth shaken , Isay . 2. 19. and thrown down there , which is the foundacion of all images ; for that within holds up these without , the carnal part within holds up the carnal Temple without , and that looks at all these Rites , Customs , Forms , and Tradicions thou speakst of , and the minde that is perishing is that that holds up all these perishing things , in whom the Mystery of Iniquity lodgeth , 2 Thes . 2. 7. but if thou wert obedient to the Light , and loved it , it would bring thee to know God , and to escape the prince of the Ayer , which holds up all these things without thee ; for Israel when he had forgotten his Maker , builded Temples , so thy carnal minde ruleing , and disobeying the Light which would guide thee to God , that carnal mind within , brings thee to hold up Temples without thee , and so thou art in the Pride and the Highness of minde , for out of Pride ( whose Dominion is Satan ) came these Queries , but who are made the Temples of God are holy , and deny all your outward Temples of the Preists , and and all your carnal Observances , which you live in , who profess the new-Covenant , or the Gospel , or Christ , or the Word : but I will deal plainly with you : you are not come to know the old Covenant , for from the inward doth all Idols , and Images arise , and there is many Idols and Images which thou bowest down to , with out thee , then look within thee , and thou art full of Imaginacions and Images both within and without , Pro. 6. 18. for as the spirituall Prince of Darkness , as thou speakst , they have their Idols and Images without , as ever it was in all that Generacion , which thou livest in ; and when thou hast denied the outward Idols all of them by the Light of God , which thou hatest , then thou shalt see them within thee , thou that stumblest at the Light art he that holdst up all these Images , Ezek. 7. 20. in whom the mystery of iniquity lodgeth , for the Light of the body is the eye , which shews all these things , and that it is which I sayd to thee before , thou knowest not , ( for thou art full of Images within ) thou knowest it not , born up in thy understanding to guide thee , for it is the Light that enlightneth every one that cometh into the world , Iohn 1. 9. which thou art an Enemy and a stranger to , and stumblest at , which Light shall be thy condemnacion , Iohn 3. 19. 8 Query . If the inward living invisible Word of God , which is the Teacher , in no way held forth under a Form , as to outward appearance to men , in earthen vessels , why do I see thy Expressions and Exhortations come forth in Print ? Answ . To the eighth Query ; Thou full of subtlety , spuing forth thy Venom , and askest in the Query before , whe●her the word should be held forth or no , and now thou dost hear something that is published abroad , which is a cross to thee , and which makes manifest you are stirred up , and doth torment you , therefore dost thou push with thy ten Horns , nevertheless thou sendest not the Queryes to him whom thou dost accuse , and sayst , why see I thy Expressions in Print , and sendest them to another , but such is thy rage and fury , and now it doth appear to all men , though it hath layn close , the eternal Word hath stirred him up ; but Friend , I declare plainly to thee , God Almighty of Heaven and Earth , hath raised up a Light in the hearts of People , 1 Pet. 2. 9. ( and he is coming to teach them himself ) whereby your abominacion and filthiness is discovered to the sons and daughters of the Lord God Almighty , and according to his promise he hath poured forth his Spirit that his sons and daughters begin to prophecy , Ioel 2. 28 , 29. Prayses be to the Lord God Almighty , who now is setting up his Kingdom , who sends his sons and Daughters abroad , some to prophecy , and some to preach , and to declare his Name , Freely ye have received , freely give , Matth. 10. 8. and some write , and some speak face to face , so you shall see it nearer you ere long , and as the Prophets of the Lord who spake his Word , somtimes spoke , and when they were moved to write they writ ●nd published it abroad , so do we the same , being absent in body , sending forth writings or Printed Books to declare to the simple mindes the deceits that ye who are blinde Guides have led them in ; but Iesus Christ the Light now shines , by which ye are seen and discovered , therefore stop your mouths & be ashamed , who have never had word from God , Micah 3. 7. for the Lord God is coming to stop your mouths , ye dumb Prophets , and Dogs , Thieves , and Robbers , who have stollen the words of others , whom ye know not , Jer. 23. 30. but the Earth hath got the Declaracion , which is Earth , and so speaks the Earth for the Earth , but O Earth ! hear the Word of the Lord , for wo is to ye that inhabit the Earth ; and now the Devil begins to rage , because the Word of God is sounding abroad , and the Trumpet is blowing , which makes the Inhabitants of the Earth to tremble : but all your Preaching we do deny , and all your Blessings ; for as it is written , as the Prophet sayd , their blessings were cursed , and their seed were corrupt , Mal. 2. 2 , 3. and in their generacion you are , the Light which is Christ is made manifest , which lets me see you to be in that generacion , which hath gathered us up to God , and lets us see thee without God. 9 Query . Whether to exhort a man to attend to that Light which is within , which his eye can see , and which his ear can hear , and which his understanding can comprehend , and of which ●e can give a Reason , be not to draw men to attend to visible things , and to worship in the Idols Temple , and to bow down to the Image of things , which he hath seen in Heaven and Earth , yea or no ? Answ . to the ninth Query ; In it thou art compleat , if thou didst see thy self in the mystery of iniquity , fencing with thy weapons , which are spiritual wickednesses , which lodgeth in the highest place , and with thy thoughts and imaginacions as it doth openly appear to him that obeys the Light , so thou drawest People to look after visible things , and to worship in the Idols Temple , 1 Cor. 8. 10. to that which thy Reason can understand , and thy carnal eye can see , and thy carnal ear can hear , so thou worshipest the Host of Heaven , and that is thy Heaven , and thy Earth ; but Heaven is Gods Throne , and thou with thy carnal eye canst never see that , but drawst all under to thy worship , and that thou bowest down to , to thy own imaginacions within , and then thou settest up somthing without thee , and bringest others to bow down to thy Images and Idols without thee , which thou ●ast set up , which flows from the spiritual wickedness within thee , in the highest place , and there thou dost climb up to the highest Pinnacle , and he that will bow down and worship thee , thou givest thy glory to him , if he will not thou drawest out thy carnal weapons to murder him , for all the Ministers of the Letter are Persecutors of the Spirit , where thou shewest thy self to be one ; but Friend , the ▪ Light which is exhorted to take heed unto , 2 Pet. 1. 19. thy dark ▪ minde cannot comprehend , thy ear cannot hear , thy eye cannot see , therefore dost thou stumble , as he who was the Light sayd , and he that waits in the Light ( which Light is Christ ) it guides him up to God , and to the Church in God , and to bow down to nothing bu● God , 1 Thess . 1. 1. and it teacheth to know things that be eternal and invisible , by which Light we deny all thy Images , Forms Rites , and Customs , all thy Images within thee , and the Idols without thee , for thou art full of them ▪ Praysed be the Lord God Almighty , who is come to teach his children , and hath gathered us from your mouths , who made a prey upon us , who wandred from Mountain to Mountain , but now the Lord hath fulfilled his Promise , and is fulfilling it ; for thou art full of Images , and art the well-coloured Beast , and hast the well-coloured Robes , and art the Harlot out of the truth , Nah. 3. 4. who deceives with thy evil eye to draw People to visible things . 10 Query . Whether to say , obey the Light that is within , and that is life , and disobey it , that 's death , be not to speak according to the tenour of the old Covenant , which sayth , Do this and live , yea or no ? Answ . to the tenth Query : In the Observance of outward things and Tradicions there is a difference , in the obeying of the Light within , and observing things without , as the Apostle sayd , Take heed to the Light within you , untill the day dawn , and the day-star arise in your hearts , 2 Pet. 1. 19. who witnessed the new ▪ Covenant , and they that did obey the Light within , saw through the old , and saw Christ , so a new command I give unto you , yet not a new but an old , if thou hast an ear thou mayst hear , but as I sayd to thee before , it is that which thy Reason cannot comprehend , nor never shall , and ye are sanctified through the obedience of the Spirit , John 17. 19. 1 Pet. 1. 22. and thy intent in these Queryes is to draw into disobedience from the Light of God within them , to follow the imaginacions of such as thou art , but who doth obey the Light , thou art discovered to them , and thou and all who hate this Light , it is thine and their condemnacion , and eternally shalt thou witness me , for to the Light I speak , which thy dark minde cannot comprehend , and all who disobeys the Light , holds the truth in an unrighteous minde , Rom. 10. 16. but the Lord Jesus Christ is coming , Who will render vengeance in flames of fier , upon all them who know not God , and that obeys not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ , 2 Thess . 1. 8. now thou mayst call this the old Covenant , and the Covenant of Works , who livest in the mystery of iniquity , and art disobedient , who art one in that generacion that is disobedient to the Gospel of our Lord Iesus Christ , and seekest to keep others in the same generacion from obeying the Gospel of our Lord Iesus Christ , with all thy beastical power in these ten Queryes , who hast uttered forth thy ten Horns , that pusheth with them , against the Lamb and against the Saints , Dan. 7. 7. but the Lamb hath got the victory over the Beast , and over the false Prophets , the Light that doth enlighten every one that cometh into the world , this Light he dwelleth in which sees thee , which hath answered these Queryes , who art without , yet so as not to the feeding of that minde and reason which must die in thee , for Plagues , and Wo , and Judgment , and Vengeance , and Flames of Fier , will the Lord render upon thee , who doth not obey the Gospel , 2 Thess . 1. 8. and so fare thee well , for in the Pit and Fall thou art , one that doth disobey the Light , and hatest the Light , and stumblest at it , and there thou standest condemned , for to that in thy conscience do I speak , 2 Cor. 4. 2. which shall eternally witness me , 2 Cor. 5. 11. FINIS . Certain QUERIES given forth by a sort of high Professors that dwell in Farnez Fels in Lancashire , and sent to George Fox , which are answered by him , and their subtlety and deceits discovered and layd open . 1 Query . WHether Jesus Christ have a Body in Heaven , if he hath , whether it is the same that appeared among men in the flesh , or what manner of Body hath he ? Is he a particular Man or Person , incompassed with a Body , to live in for ever ? or is it the Body which the Saints shall have , when all flesh shall be raised to the last Judgment ? Answ . Thou wouldst know , whether Iesus Christ have a Body in Heaven : he remains in the Heavens ; if thou hast an Eare thou mayst hear : And whereas thou wouldst know whether it be the same that appeared amongst men , it is the same that did descend , the same did ascend , Ephes . 4. 10. he that hath an Eare to hear let him hear : and whereas thou wouldst know , what manner of Body he hath ; here thou art disputing as the Devil was about the Body of Moses , with Michael the Archangel , who sayd , The Lord rebuke thee , so say I now , the Lord rebuke thee , who art disputing about the Body of Christ , for the Body of Christ is but one , which makes free from the Law and sin , and he is the Head of the Body , which is the Church ; but this to thee is a mystery , and he liveth in his Body , Rom. 7. 4. and whereas thou wouldst know whether it be the Body , which the Saints shall have , Col. 1. 18. when all flesh shall be raised to the last Judgment ; here thou hast shewed forth thy ignorance , not to discern the Lords Body , and to be of them that would make a division in the Body that is spoken of in the Scripture , for the Body of Christ is but one , as it is written , being many members , yet one Body , 1 Cor. 12. 20. and Christ is the Head and Members of this Body , and liveth in it , I in thee , and thou in me , that they may be one , as thou Father art in me , and I in thee , Iohn 27. he that can receive it , let him , but thou art he who doth not discern the Lords Body , therefore thou eatest and drinkest damnacion to thy self , 1 Cor. 11. 29. and to thee it is a mystery , and damnacion thou must know , and with that Eye thou shalt never see it , for it is evill as Herods was , who sought after the Child to worship him , but would have slain him Matth. 2. 13. he that raiseth the Body he is the judg of the world : in flames of fier , and in flaming fier , and in vengeance shalt thou know , and in judgment , 2 Thes . 1. 7. 8. who art without , in the world , querying about his body who is the Resurrection , John. 11. 25. and in this Query thou hast shewed forth thy dark mind , which is full of Confusion , and thy self to be ignorant of the Body of Christ , and with thy fleshly understanding , which is for destrukcion , thou wouldst know it , and this minde which hath asked this Question ; but the Righteousness of Faith speaks on this wise , not to say to fetch Christ from above , or descnd into the deep , that is , to bring up Christ again from the dead : But what sayth it , the word is nigh thee even in thy mouth , and in thy heart , that is the word of Faith which wee preach , Rom. 10. 6. 7. 8. wherein thou hast showed thy self that gavest forth these Queries , that you never heard this word of Faith preached to you , and he is the Head , and the Saints are the Body , Eph. 4. 15. and in him we live , who sit with Christ in heavenly places , Eph. 2. 6. and his body is but one , and he lives in it for ever , whom the Heavens must receive untill the time of Restitucion of all things Acts 3. 21. but you dark Sots , this is a mystery to you , as Christ is who is the Head of the Body ; and this Body of Christ which thou desirest to know , thou shalt never know , nor see , for thou art for judgment , and condemnacion ▪ ordained of Old , Iude 13. and in darkness thou livest , who art dead in Sins and Trespasses , Eph. 2. 1. and who art querying after Christ , whether he be a particular Person , showing forth the same minde that was in the Iewes , who knew not Christ , but queried whether he was the Carpenters Son or no , Math. 13. 55. who was not born by the will of man , and is born now but not by the will of man , him you know not , nor cannot se Iohn 1 ▪ 13. nor believe where he is made manifest , and he is but one in all his Saints , who is their Head , Rom. 7 4. and their Life , who comes into the World from above , and redeemes and makes free from Sin and the Law , with the Body of Christ ; he that hath an Eare may hear ; to us it is plainness , who are in the Gate and Fold , but to you it is a mystery , who live in the mystery a● Iniquity , who are without the Gate , and Christ is the Resurrection , and the Judg , Iohn 11. 25. that shalt thou finde when he comes upon thee to render vengance in flames of fier , Iohn 5 22. who art a Childe of Disobedience . 2 Query . With what Bodies shall the Saints arise with , and dwell , and live in for ever , shall there be given to every particular Saint , a particular Body . Answ . Whereas thou wouldst know with what Body the Saints shall arise , In that Body which Christ doth live in , for he is the Saviour of the Body , he is the Head of the Body , he is the Resurrection and the Life of the Body , and his Body is but one , So wee are many members , yet one Body , Cor. 12. 20. and here thou hast showed thou dost not discern the Lords Body , but art under the Damnacion : Thou Fool , whereas thou wouldst know whether there shall be given to every particular Saint a particular Body , and with what Bodies they shall arise , as they said in the Corinthians , with what Bodies shall they come , and how should the dead be raysed . Paul makes answer , Thou fool , that which thou sowest is not quickened except it die , and that which thou sowest , thou sowest not that Body that shall be , but bare grain , it may chance of Whear , or of some other grain , but God giveth it a Body as it hath pleased him , and to every seed his own Body : All flesh is not the same flesh , but there is one kind of flesh of Men , another flesh of Beasts , another of Fishes , and another of Birds : there are also Celestiall Bodyes , and Bodies Terrestiall , but the glory of the Celestial is one , and the glory of the Terrestiall is another . There is one glory of the Sun , another glory of the Moon , and another glory of the , Stars , for one Star differeth from another Star in glory , So also is it in the Resurrection of the dead ; if thou hast an Eare thou mayst hear ; but thou Fool art never the wiser here , but thou art a Conjurer , and livest in Conjuracion , Ier. 27. 9. Zach. 10. 2. 3 Query With what Bodies shall the wicked arise , with natural , or spirituall ? Answ . With thy corrupt naturall spirituall wickedness , to Condemnacion ; with that Body doth the wicked arise that thou livest in ; thou Enimy of God shalt finde it , and the Eye in thee shall see destruction , and eternall Condemnacion , who queriest with what Bodies the wicked shall arise : thou art risen high in thy spirituall wickedness , Ephes . 6. 12. who livest in the corrupt nature , and high art thou risen in it , whose Judgment is appearing , and Judg stands at the door , and lingers not , whose damnacion slumbers not , 2 Pet. ● . 3. If thou hast an Eare thou mayst hear , and there read thy Porcion , and thy Answer to the Query . 4 Query . Whether is there , or shall there be a Locall Place of Heaven and Hell , to be inhabited and dwelt in , for the Saints to enjoy , and the Wicked to suffer in , with their Bodyes ? And how shall they be tormented , with materiall Fier and Brimston , or how ? And if every Saint and Devil , have a particular Body , must there not be a particular Locall Place ? Can Bodies be ▪ no where ? Must they not rest and stand upon some place , the Saints singing Hallelujah , to the Highest for evermore ? Answ . In thy Query thou hast uttered forth thy Confusion , who hast joyned Heaven and Hell together ; and whereas thou wouldst know , whether there is , or there shall be a Locall Place of Heaven and Hell : here thou shewest forth thy blindness , in that thou knowest neither Heaven nor Hell , and in the Locall Place , as thou calst it , thou art , and there 's a Hell , thou shalt finde it , and there thy sinfull body shall suffer , who art seperated from God. Heaven is Gods Throne , which the Saints do enjoy ( he that can receive it , let him ) but thou art shut out of it , and that which asketh the Question shall never know it , for thou art without the Gate , as I said to thee before . And whereas thou wouldst know how the Wicked should be tormented ; here thou wouldst learn thy Porcion , Rev. 20. 131 , 4. with that Fier that cannot be quenched ; look upon Fier and Brimston and it may teach thee , and thou mayst read thy Figure daily . Whereas thou wouldst know , if every Saint and Devil have a particular body , thou art of the particular body of the mystery of Iniquity ▪ 2 Thess . 2. 7. who art to be tormented from the presence of the Lord God Almighty , and the Lamb , and all his Saints and Angels , Rev. 20. 10. and if thou call that a Locall place , take it . The Saints shall stand upon Mount Sion , who are redeemed from the Earth by the Blood of Iesus Christ , who sings Hallelujah for evermore . Rev. 14. 1. Rev. 21. 10. whose Body is but one , and Christ is the Head of the Body , Col. 1. 18. If thou hast an Eare thou mayst hear , for without this Body thou art kept , from making any division , 2 Thess . 2. 3. Thou Enemy of God , and man of Sin , for destruction thou art ordained , to go therein , thy fear of it doth begin , and the Lake that burneth , and the Pit thou art for to be turned into Eternally : thou shalt know me that I speak the Truth , for whosoever thou art called by Name , thy Spirit I know ▪ 5 Query . Whether Iesus Christ be the Eternall Father , and fullest Fountain of Bliss , and that besides him , and above him there is no God ? Was he the first Contriver , Determiner , and Former of all things ; the Creator of every thing , the giver of every good gift ? Or was he the begotten of the Father ▪ so not the Father , and Fountain , but set apart from him , being by him when he gave to the Sea his Decree ; so Christ is not truly God in the Originall , but a Son , being alwaies by the Father , to see what works he doth , the Son may do likewise ? Is he but the Gift , and Dispensator , or Maker-out of the Fathers Love to Sinners , as a Mediator and Advocate betwixt the Father and them ; so not the substance , and Fountain in the Bult and Dignity . Therefore what is Christ ? hath he a body and the Father none ? how may he be distinguished from the Father ? So not the Father : So no God , unless there be two or three distinct Gods , and no more one God ? Answ . Whereas thou wouldst know , whether Iesus Christ be the Eternall Father , and fullest Fountain of Bliss ; thou Serpent , thou askest a question , and art giving an answer thy self , as the Serpent did , Mich. 7. 17. 2 Cor. 11. 3. he is not thy Eternall Father that pu●st forth this Query , nor Fountain , for of another Fountain thou drinkest , and Bliss ( us thou calst it ) which is one of thy Conjured words ; and thou sayst , besides him , and above him , there is no God : God was in Christ reconciling the World to himself , 2. Cor. 15. 19. he that hath an Eare to hear let him hear . Whereas thou wouldst know , whether Christ was the first Contriver , Determiner , and Former of all things ; him who is the First , and the Last , shalt thou never know , but death and destruction , for thou art the Contriver , Determiner , and Former ; who wouldst poynt out God a way , and who art contriving with thy Serpentine wisdom , to intrude into the things of God , and to know God , and Christ , Col. 2. 18. who art cursed above all the beasts of the field , from God and Christ , Gen 3. 14. In the world thou mayst make a division , but betwixt God and Christ , thou canst make none , as it is written , A Virgin shall have a Childe whose name shall be Emmanuel , which is by interpretacion , God with us , Math. ● 23. Luke 1 31 32 he that hath an Eare to hear let him hear , but thou hast none , who art making divisions : He that is the Father , is the giver of every good gift , and the Creator of all things , and he that was in the Father , and the Father in him , by him were all things made , and by him doth all things consist , visible and invisible , Col. 1. 16 , 17. whereas thou askest if Christ was the Begotten of the Father , which shews thou neither knowest the Father nor the Son , for he that knoweth him that did beget , knoweth him that is begotten of him , for the Son is in the Father , Iohn 5. 1. who is not born by the will of man , and thou in thy will shalt never know him , Iohn 14. 10 , 11. for thou art Herod that seekest to know , but it is to destroy , Matth. 2. 13. if thou knewst the Son thou wouldst know the Father , who cannot be divided , for the Father and the Son are one , from whence all good and perfect gifts flow ; and as he sayd to the Disciple , Hast thou seen me and not seen the Father , I am in the Father , and the Father in me , Iohn 14. 9 , 10. and he that hath the Father hath the Son , and if there come any among you , and bring any other Doctrine , receive him not into your houses , neither bid him God speed . Friend , thou art the subtle Serpent , the Tempter , who shewest forth thy presumptuous blasphemy ; thou sayst , Christ is not truly God ; in that Original thou hast no more knowledg of him than the outward Original , for through thy subtlety thou hast conjured up these many Queryes , which must go into perdicion again , who art making a differen● and distance betwixt God and Christ ; for as I sayd to thee before , God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself , and he that sees the Son sees the Father also , the Mover of all things , and Maker of all things ; but here with thy busie minde thy blindness and ignorance doth appear , who art scraping in Hell to gather up your conjured stuff , who neither knowest God nor Christ , and it is Christ that you crucifie : Friend , here thou sittest as a Judg of the Father and of Christ ; thou Enemy of God , who sayst , Christ is not the Father and Fountain , but set apart from him , being by him when he gave to the Sea his Decree ; God was in Christ who is both Father and Fountain , reconciling the world to himself , and it was he that gave to the Sea its Decree , and he that sees the Son sees the Father also , for the Son is in him ; but thou that makest a difference to set God in one place and Christ in another , art in the same nature that the Iews had , that could not discern the Father that spoke in him , as he sayd , It is not you , but the Spirit of the Father that speaketh in you , Matth. 10. 20. but thou livest in Philosophy and Logick , which are of the Devil , Col. 2. 8. who art storming with thy Reason , but Truth hath comprehended thee , who art for destruction , thou high Blasphemer and Lucifer like : VVhereas thou askest whether is he but the Gift , and Dispensator and Maker out of the Fathers love to sinners ▪ as a Mediator and Advocate betwixt the Fater and them ; he is him whom the Father loveth , who is the Mediator , who is thy destruction , God so loved the world that he gave his onely begotten Son into the world , that whosoever believed on him should not perish but have everlasting life , Iohn 3. 16. Friend , thou art but querying to seed thy fleshly minde , who art one of them that crucifiest him , high in thy presumption , so to thee he is no Mediator , and to thee he is no Gift , nor made manifest , but art querying without of him , and one of them that say , Lo here , and lo there , Matth. 24. 23. and thy knowledg is the Letter , and that is the Original , and Gift , and Manifestacion , which is dust , which ●eeds thee Serpent , which the Curse is upon , and it is the Seed of the Woman that must bruise thy Head , as God who hath promised and sayd , Gen. 3. 15. and this must every one witness who witness Christ , thou with thy evil eye lookest at Christ and God at a distance , and the Father and the Son at a distance , as thou saydst before , he set him at a distance , which crosseth the life of Christ , who sayd , I in thee , and thou in me , Father as thou and I are one , Iohn 17. 21. and he that hath the Father hath the Son , and the Son is in the Father , and in the Fountain , but thou to this art ignorant , who art scraping with thy carnal Reason , to get up to the highest Pinnacle to tempt Christ , who sittest as a Judg upon the Father and Christ , and who crucifiest him , and knowest not God , but thou must be judged with him , even the spiritual man , and as it is written , the first man is of the Earth , earthly , and the second is the Lord from Heaven , 1 Cor. 15. 47. but thou sayst , Christ is not truly God ; O thou false Judg ▪ who knowest neither God nor Christ ▪ who art making a separacion betwixt the Son and God , and who art setting Christ at a distance , who sayth , he is in the Father , and who makest a Ly upon the Scriptures , and speakest contrary to them , which thou callest the Original , for it sayth , In the beginning was the Word , and the Word was God , and became Flesh and dwelt amongst us , Iohn 1. and they knew him not , no more do ye know him now , who dwels amongst us , but seek to crucifie him where ever he is made manifest , who hath his being in the Father ; thou Enemy of God and of all Righteousness , who sayth so , not the Substance ▪ and Fountain in the bult and dignity , in thy bult and dignity he is not ; here thou hast shewed forth thy self , thou Lyar , who sayst , Christ is not in the bult ( as thou callest it ) and dignity , who presumptuously wouldst sit as a Judg upon him to whom all power in Heaven and Earth is given , to the Son , Matth. 28. 18. who is in the Fountain , and the Fountain in him , who is in power and dignity , who shall overthrow thee and thy dignity , thou who art raced out from God and the Son : and again thou queryest what is Christ ▪ it is him thou crucifiest , and seekest to crucifie and slay ; and here thou Tempter , who art without , art querying whether Christ hath a Body , and the Father none , shewing thy self not to know the Lords Body , for the Son is in the Father , and they are one ; and with thy carnal eye lookest upon him to be like thy self ; if thou knowest his Body thou knowest the Fathers , for they are both one ; thou full of subtlety , who art querying how the Son may be distinguished from the Father , he that knows the Son knows the Father , and he that sees the Son sees the Father , for he is in the Father , and they are not to be distinguished , but it is thou who art without , in the world , who art making many Gods , as the world doth , 1 Cor. 5. 8. Ier. ● . 28. and art distinguishing , who art distinguished from the Father and the Son , who art making and makest three Gods , and knowst none , nor hast none but the God of the World to rule thee ; and here thou twining Serpent , who art ensnaring art ensnared , who art full of subtlety , and catcht in thy wile , who hast been rabbling upon thou knowst not what with thy filthy minde , and talkest of thou dost not know what , so thou art turned and must be turned into that which to thee will be hot ; and the Son and the Father are one , I and my Father are one , Iohn 10 30. and not two , but to thee ; he that hath an Ear let him hear , but here thou hast none , who hast a busie minde , medling with that which doth not concern thee , and so thou shewest thy self where thou art ▪ 6 Query . Whether there be a pure and an eternal Light in every Male and Female , if a true and saving Light , in and to every one , how is it that there shall so many perish ? Is Satan stronger than God ? Shall or can flesh and bloud quench and extenuate the Spirit in his operacion , and so the arm of the Almighty shortned , frustrated , and made void by the disobedience of flesh ? Is there a power in every man as he is man , to be saved if he will ? Answ . Christ sayth , I am the Light of the world that enlightneth every one that cometh into the world , Iohn 1. 9. The one he loves the Light , and brings his works to the Light , and walks in the Light , and to him there is no occasion of stumbling , Iohn 3. 20 , 21. and you that hate the Light , you stumble , and know not whither you go , who hast put forth so many stumbling Queryes , and with thy dark minde thou canst not comprehend the Light , but Light comprehends thee , and sees thy end and intent , which Light shall be thy condemnacion , John 1. 5. and thou sayst , How is it that there shall so many perish ? that which asketh the question must perish ; who hates the Light as thou dost , and gayusays the truth , shall perish as Core did , Iude 11. and the Eternal pure Light shall be thy condemnacion , in thy own mouth shalt thou be judged , who livest in the disobedience of the pure Light , and slightest his mercyes , and turnest the free Grace of God into wantonness ; the mouth of the Lord of Hosts hath spoken it , who is the Lord God of Heaven and Earth , and my arm is not shortned , sayth the Lord ; and Satan is exalted above all that is called God in thee ▪ 2 Thess . 2. 4. thou son of perdicion , and that which is of God in thee is imprisoned , and thou with thy fleshly minde crucifiest the just , and quenchest the Spirit , as the Iews did who crucified Christ , as thou readest in the Letter , Iohn 19. and in that generacion thou art , if thou hast an Ear thou mayst hear , thou Enemy of God hast none , who crucifiest Christ now , who art he that frustratest ▪ and quenchest the Spirit , who must be consumed with the breath of his mouth , and destroyed by the brightness of his coming : thou queryest whether there be a power in every man as to be saved if he will ; here thou subtlety who art ditted full of Eearth hast shewed forth thy ignorance of the power of God , 2 Tim. 3. 4 , 5. Man in his will would be saved , as thou wouldst , but the power of God is contrary to thy will and destroys it , which saves , and as many as receives Christ , to them he gives power to become the sons of God , Iohn 1. 12. but here thou son of perdicion hast made manifest thy self , not to love Christ , nor receive him , therefore thou wantst power , and there thou hast shewed thy self to be that wicked and slothfull servant which hidest thy Talent in the Earth , Matth. 25. 26. and there is that Light and Power in every man , which if he take heed to it , and wait within , there he shall finde his Saviour , 2 Pet. 1. 19. but if he hate this pure Eternal Light , it shall condem him eternally whose deeds are evil , Iohn 3. 19. as thine is , and so all stumbling is by being disobedient to the Light , as the Iews who stumbled at Christ ▪ who sayd , he was the Light that enlightneth every one that cometh into world , so thou dost now at the same Light , which shall be thy condemnacion , eternally thou shalt witness me ; it is the same Light as ever was : to that which should exercise your consciences do I speak , which will witness me , and condemn you , though God is greater than Conscience . 7 Query . Whether there shall be a general Resurrection of all flesh , all summoned to one place , and to what place , to receive a tru and du Sentence of Iudgment , yea or no ? Answ . Christ Iesus is the Resurrection of the just and unjust , some to salvacion , and some to condemnacion , the same that saves the same condemns , Matth. 25. 31 , 32 , 33 , 34. And thou desirest to know the place , it is the day that God will judg thee and the world in righteousness , whom he hath ordained ; thou busie fellow who art querying of others condicions of the world without thee , but it is that thou Fool mightst utter forth thy folly , and here thou hast made it appear , and in thy Queryes thou art little wiser , and there is a place where thou shalt finde a Judg , and his Trumpet is sounding , but thou art deaf yet , and canst not hear it , and the Sumpter-horse is gone forth . 8 Query . Whether may the Scriptures by the Spirit of God be opened , and unfolded , and expounded to the People , yea or no ? Ans . Here thou Serpent art full of subtlety , High-Priest like , under a colour comest and wouldst be taught , but in thy other Queryes thou art teaching and judging , and thou didst shew thy selfe to be one that didst not know the Light which enlightneth every one that cometh into the world , and what dost thou talk of opening the Scripture , who hates the Light and stumblest at it , and art disobedient to the Spirit , Col. 3. 6. to it thou art an Enemy , Ephes . 5. 6. but it is that thou mayest be kept in the high place of wickedness , Ephes . 2. 2. but by them who dwell in the Light thou art comprehended and taken in the snare , and art without the Truth of God , and an Enemy to that which should guide thee , and to be a Cloud without water , Iude 12. and the same Spirit where it is made manifest , and lived in , and walked in , and not the lusts of the flesh , it opens the Scriptures in the People , and fulfils them , for it is the same that gave them forth , and where this is witnessed it needs not be queryed , whether it opens the Scripture to the People or no , for it doth open them in the People and to the People , but thou art without the Gate of Truth , what is this to thee , one that art without , stumblest at the Light , a Childe of Disobedience , whom the wrath of God abides upon , Iohn 3. 36. but it is the Serpent that would be wise , and wouldst paint thy self with other mens words , who pretendest to have the Spirit , but art a Deceiver in the world , in thy Fathers Kingdom , and Dominion , and this shalt thou see when thou ownest the Light , which is thy condemnacion , and witnessest me to speak the truth . George Fox . FINIS . Certain QUERIES given forth from one Robert Lucas , of Kellet in Lancashire , who is wise in his own conceit , professing in words that he knows something , but i● here found out to know nothing but what he knows naturally , as a bruit Beast , and in those things hath corrupted himself , as Iude 10 ▪ and that through his wrath , bitterness , envy , and malice ▪ against the wonderfull and mighty power of God , which he hath manifested in his People , which now makes the Devil to rage , persecute ▪ and blaspheme , and to set all his Servants a work , to tempt , to minister Questions , to despise , falsly accuse , and to slander , and contemn all those who are redeemed from the Earth , and are Servants to the living God , and walk in the Truth ; judging , and condemning , and overturning all those who profess the Truth in words but walk contrary : which Questions were propounded to one who is despised of the Despisers for the Truths sake , whose name among men is Richard Hubberthorn , but are answered by the Spirit of the Lord , from the mouth of the Lord , as followeth : I Have here received a Paper , whose name subscribed to it is Robert Lucas , in which are many unlearned Queryes , proceeding from the subtle minde , Serpent-like ▪ which minde is full of mischief , and dark , about Questions and strife of words , 2 Tim. 2. 23. being full of darkness , and in them are many temptations ; yet because thou Fool shouldst not be exalted in thy pride and foolery , a few things in Answer I have given forth to the uttering forth of thy foolery , thou that hast been a Professor so ▪ long , and art querying what Faith is , and whether Faith be attained by hearing the Word preached , and whether all men have not Faith , and whether it is possible to please God without Faith ; and thou queryest how Christ is in man , and whether any be elected to Salvacion , and whether all men be conceived in sin ▪ and queryest how it is done away : after thou hast shewed forth thy foolishness , thy blindness , and thy ignorance , as not knowing any thing , thou hast made a Profession of Christ , and here thou shewest thou knowst him not : for shame give over thy Profession , and lay thy hand upon thy mouth and be silent ; but to us the uttering forth thy folly is serviceable , as it is written , Fools are uttering forth their folly , and thou hast shewed thy self to be one , Prov. 13. 16. 1 Query . What Faith is ? Answ . Faith is the Gift of God , and that which asks the question is without , and shall never know it , for thou art a Reprobate concerning it , the Faith , and art one of them that art ever learning , and led away with divers lusts , never able to come to the knowledg of the Truth , 2 Tim. 3. 7. Faith is that which leads out of the World , up to God , from all the Worlds Teachers , 1 John 5. 4. and denyes all them as Christ did , and doth , who are called of men Master , and stand praying in the Synagogue , and which lay heavy burdens upon the People , which Wo was pronounced upon , Matth. 23. and is upon all such now , he that hath an ear to hear let him hear the mystery of Faith , 1 Tim. 3. 8. 2 Query . Whether is Faith obtained by hearing the Word preached ? Answ . Hast thou been a Hearer so long , and art querying whether Faith cometh by hearing of the Word preached , Rom. 10. 17. it shews forth thy subtlety , Serpent like thou feedest upon Dust , which is the Letter , and the Word thou never heardst , the Word which is God , and Faith is the gift of God , and comes by the hearing of the Word , and the Word became flesh , John 1. 14. but thou art in the generacion of them that ever persecuted them that heard this Word , where it spoke forth , and as for thee , thy Faith is vain , thou art yet in thy sins , 1 Cor. 15. 14. 3 Query . Whether have all men Faith ? Answ . No , thou hast none , but art vain in thy imaginacions , but as I sayd before , thou art a Reprobate concerning the Faith , 2. Tim. 3. 8. and thou art one of them that art unreasonable , 2 Thess . 3. ● . which have not Faith , which the Apostle prayed to be delivered from , and thou that doubts art damned already , Rom. 14. 23. 4 Query . Whether is it possible for any man to please God without Faith ? Answ . Thou canst not please God , for thou hast not Faith , for whatsoever is not of Faith is sin , Rom. 14. 23. and all that ever thou dost is sin , all thy Profession , all thy reading , all thy hearing , and all thy praying is abominacion to the Lord , for they are not offered up from the pure heart , but thy heart is rotten , filthy , and corrupt , and all thy hearing , and all thy pratling of that thou callest the Word , by it thou shalt never get Faith , which is the Gift of God , but it is all the Serpents meat which feeds thee ; thou Serpent which art cursed above all the Beasts of the Field , who in these Queryes hast shewed forth thy subtlety and temptations , Matth. 22. 35. who wouldst have us to deny the Scripture , but it is ours , we own it , Heb. 4. 15. and thee we do deny , for thou art without the life of it , as the subtle Serpents were which tempted Christ , canst thou deny it ? but thou holdest up such as have the chiefest place in the Assemblyes , and stand praying there , and with pretence make long Prayers , and lays heavy Burdens upon the People , and called of men Master , which Christ forbids ; and these are thy Teachers of the Word , and Ministers of the Gospel , as thou callest them , but ye are Antichrists and Enemies to all the commands of Christ ; O thou blinde Hypocrite , and dark Beast , why dost thou question things contrary to the Scripture ? but thou wouldst make a Lye of it as ever thou and thy Fathers did , John 8. 44. 5 Query . How is Christ in man ? Answ . O thou carnal man , and Enemy of Christ ! dost thou query how Christ is in man ? thou art of the same minde with the Jews which doubted whether that was the Christ yea or no : Light shines in darkness and darkness doth not comprehend it , Iohn 1. 5. I am the Light which enlightneth every one that cometh into the world , Iohn 1. 9. and that Light shall condemn thee , who stumblest at it , being without God in the world , it shall be thy condemnacion , the Light , for thou walkst in darkness , and knowst not whither thou goest , but art led with thy blinde Guides , and both shall fall into the Ditch together , Matth. 15. 14. 6 Query . Whether Christ as Christ be in all men ? Answ . No , in thee and thy dark understanding there is no room for Christ , for thou art one of them that hates the Light , which Light is Christ , which hath enlightned every one that comes into the world , which is the condemnacion of thee and all the world , and thou art one of the Builders , Mark 12. 10. that buildeth and stumbleth , and rejecteth the Corner-stone , Acts 4. 11. 1 Pet. 2. 7 , 8. who livest above the Light in thee , in thy vain imaginacions , which Light should guide thee to the Father , which Light thou stumblest at , and hatest , and dost not obey , so in flames of fier will he render vengeance upon , all such as thou art , who do not obey the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ , 2 Thess . 1. 8. and do not wait for his appearance . 7 Query . Whether hath God elected any to Salvation ? Answ . We are elected to Salvation , we have the witness within us , prayses be to the glorious Lord God for ever , who hath elected and chosen us , before the foundacion of the world ; but thou art ordained of old for Condemnacion and for Perdicion among the ungodly ones , and art a Reprobate , one that hates Christ , and art blinde , doting about Questions and strife of words , 1 Tim. 6. 4. in that untoward generacion which the Apostle prayed that the Saints might be kept from . I know thy spirit , it is tryed to be the spirit of Antichrist , and the spirit of Error , which is in the world , which the Wo is to , and that is thy porcion , read Iude 11. 8 Query . Whether hath any man , or but onely he that is elected to Salvacion , a sufficient Light in himself , to lead him to Christ ? Answ . Here thou stumblest again at the Light , asking whether every man have a sufficient Light to lead them to Christ , when Christ sayth , I am the Light of the world , Iohn 8. 12. and enlightneth every one that cometh into the world , Iohn 1. 9. One he loves the Light , and walks in it , and is a Childe of Light , and there is no occasion at all of stumbling , Iohn 11. 9. the other he hates the Light , because his deeds are evil , and will not come to the Light , lest the Light should reprove him , Iohn 3. 19 , 20 , 21. which Light would lead to the Father of Light , living in it , and taking heed to it , which Light shall condemn thee , and all who hate it , whose deeds are evil ; there thou art to be condemned by the Light , which would teach thee , and draw thee out of the World , and from all the Teachers of the World , and would lead thee up to Salvacion , but thou hatest it , therefore it is thy Condemnacion , that lovest Darkness more than Light , following thy own imaginacions , which are raced out from God for ever , and which Light shall be thy Condemnacion from God , Iohn 3. 19. 9 Query . What is original sin ? Answ . That which thou livest in is the Root and Author of all Sin , so if thou canst read thy self thou mayst know what Originall Sin is , as thou calst it , which is cast out from God , and shall never enter into God , where thou , and all you are , who are disobedient to the Commands of God , and stumble at the Light , because it will overthrow thy Pride and High-mindedness , who art Lucifer-like , tempting with thy Queries , as the Serpent did Eve , Gen. 3. 5. So here thou art cursed , and cast out Eternally . 10 Query . Whether all men are conceived in Sin. ? Thou art conceived in all Sin , and livest in Iniquity . What hast thou to do to meddle with other men ? stop thy mouth with that , thou evil-Beast , and Slow-belly , whose mouth must now be stopt , Tit. 1. 10. 11. 12 11 Query . How is it done away ? It is done away in destroying of thee , thou Man of Sin , and Enemy unto all Righteonsness , and Son of Perdicion , whom Iesus Christ shall consume with the Spirit of his mouth , and destroy with the Brightness of his Comming , 2 Thes . 2. 8. but this thou man of Sin putst far from thee , verse 3. but this shalt thou know , before thou know thy Sin taken away , and witness thy Queries to be vain : thou dost not yet know Sin taken away , but livest in Iniquity and Sin , which thou wast brought forth in ; and as a Theif thou hast named Christ , but not departed from Iniquity , 2 Tim. 2. 19. and Christ comes to destroy the work 's of the Devil , 1 Iohn . 3. 8. 12 Query . Whether is it a Righteousness in Christ imputed unto us by Faith ? Or a Righteousness of Works in our selves , by which wee are justified before God ? Answ . Here thou hast tempted to thy own destruction , for thou art not yet come to know the Righteousness of the Law of Works in thy selfe , nor the state of the first Covenant , and the Faith of God thou art a Reprobate to , which justifies alone without imputacion , Rom. 3. 28. and thy imputed Faith we utterly deny , which Faith is dead without Works , and thou art dead both to Faith and Works , and thy imputacion to thy dead Works without thee , we do deny , Rom. 4. 5. 6. for that is your Cloak for your Sin and Filthyness : Abraham , to whom the imputacion was spoken , he was come from his Fathers house , which thou art not , and he was a Freind of God , which thou art an Enimy to , Rom. 4. ●2 . and God will wound the Head of all his Enemies , Psal . 68. 21. for thou hast not Faith , we are witnesses against thee ; The Righteousness of God , which is by Faith of Jesus Christ , Rom. 3. 22. this we own , which was witnessed of , by the Law and Prophets , therefore we are witnesses against thee , and all thy blinde Guides , to be without the Faith of Jesus , and the Prophets , the Law , and not yet come to see the Death reign in thee , which hath passed over all men , and there thou art , as it is written , Death reigned from Adam till Moses , and Death and Destruction saith , wee have heard of the fame thereof with our Eares , and this is thee , Iob 28. 22. and thou mayst read the Chapter through it is serv●cable to thee 13 Query . Whether a man may keep the whole Law ? Answ . Thou askest a Question , whether a man may keep the whole Law , as though thou wast affraid , and durst not keep the Law ; if I should say yea , thy Master would be angry with thee , for thou and thy Master sayth nay : Our Master Christ Iesus is the end of the Law , and fulfileth the Law in us who walk not after the Flesh , but after the Spirit , which makes us free from the Law of Sin and Death , Rom. 8. 12. and we love God because we keep his Commandements , 1 Iohn 5. 23. and to us they are not greevious ; and God saith , if yee love me , keep my Commandements , 2 Iohn 1. 6. 1 Iohn 3. 14. and thou askest a Question , whether a man may keep his Law , here thou hast shewed thy self to be one that hath cast his Law behinde thy back , for God cals for the walking in , and keeping of his Law : and thou queriest whether a man may keep it or no , therefore thou hast cast away the Law of God , and despisest the word of the holy One of Israel , Esay . 5. 24 14 Query . Whether Christ is an Advocate for all Beleevers , if some be without Sin ? Answ . Thou full of all Subtilty , and full of Sin , and Tempter , Christ is the Advocate for all Beleevers , and doth take away their Sins , and destroyes the works of the Devil , which are yet standing in thee , therfore dost thou stumble at the Scriptures ; and here hast thou shown forth thy Envy , Kain-like : I know the intent of thy Queries , and the mischeif of thy minde , who art in the Generacion of Kain , seeking to slay the Righteous Seed which cannot Sin , but thou that Sinnest art of the Devil , 1 Iohn 3. 8. 9. and ther is no Mediator for thee , but thou art for Destruction , for thou that sinnest art of the Devil , and never kn●wst God , but art a Transgressor of the Law , 1 Iohn 3. 4. To that in thy Conscience do I speak 15 Query . Whether is the Blood of Iesus Christ , that was shed upon the Cross at Ierusalem , the Price that bought us ? Answ . In the Query thou pervertest the Scripture , and the same minde thou hast there that the Pharises had . The Blood of Christ is but one , as ever t was , by which we are redeemed from our vain Conversacion , and by which all are redeemed , Ephes . 1. 7. which thou makest light of , who livest in thy vain minde and Conversacion , for this Blood is our Witness , and Seal , by which we are redeemed , but not at Ierusalem only , but made manifest in us ; Glory Glory , to the Lord God for ever , who hath begotten us from the Dead , and brought us again by the Resurrection of Jesus ; and the same dost thou seek to crucifie now , Math. 3. 34. the same minde being in thee as was in them that crucified him at Ierusalem : and the Saviour thou lookest for at Ierusalem , his Blood is upon thee , as it was upon the Jewes , and the Price of Blood thou knowest not no not in the first Covenant , nor the Blood of Lambs and of the Goat● , which was a figure of the Everlasting Covenant , which makes perfect ; but thou art one of the filthy Swine , wallowing in the Mire , and without are Dogs , Rev. ●2 . 15. 16 Query . Whether is Faith counted for Righteousness to him that beleiveth ? Answ . Faith is Righteousness , and was counted to Abraham for Righteousness , Rom. 4. 9. and is so still with them who are of Abraham : And the Righteousnesse of Faith speaks on this wise , not to say in thy heart , who shall ascend into Heaven , that is , to bring Christ down from above ; or who shall descend into the deep , that is , to bring up Christ from the dead : But what saith it , the Word is nigh thee , even in thy mouth , and in thy heart : this is the Word of Faith which we preach , Rom. 10. 6 7 , 8. and this we witness , and are witnesses against thee , and all thy Train , who are Reprobates concerning the Faith , 2 Tim. 3. 8. and know not Abraham , but draw out from the Word within , for where Faith is , it is walked in , and it purifies the heart , and brings to walk in the Steps of Abraham ; but thou as a busie Fellow art querying whether Faith be counted for Righteousness to him that beleiveth , wherby thou wouldst have an addicion to the Scripture , or wouldst have it wrested , or wouldst thou have us to speak contrary to the Scriptures ? for it we witness , and the Righteousness of Faith we witness , Rom. 4. 11. 12. 13. 16. and if thou shouldest say the same , we know thee to be a Lyar , as they that did swear God lived , and swore falsly , because we know thee to know nothing of it , but as the history speaks , who hast showed thy self here to be an Antichrist , one of them that hath the Form but not the Power which ever is to be turned away from , 2 Tim. 3. Iohn 4. 17 Query Whether hath not Christ Ordained a Ministry in his Church ? Answ . Christ is the Minister to the Church , Heb. 8. 2. he is the Head of the Body , and Saviour , he is the Members and the Head of the Body the Church , Col. 1 18 19. he hath Ordained a Ministry , but it is that which thou art an Enemy to ; what is it to thee what is in the Church of Christ , for thou art an Enemy to the Church of Christ , for thou art in the worlds Assemblies , and among the Hyerlings , going in the way of Cain , and after the Error of Balaam , Iude 11. which the Wo was to , and among them which are called of men Masters , which are pearkt up into the cheifest place of the Assemblies , which were Enemies to Christ , which bee cryed Wo against , Math 23 Read thy Porcion , and thy Church there 18 Query , Whether did the Apostle Paul command Timothy to Ordain Ministers , by laying on of hands ? and whether Timothy himselfe , was not so Ordained ? Anws , Whereas thou wouldst know whether Timothy Ordained Ministers by laying on of hands ; the same that made him a Minister , the same Ordained other Ministers , by laying on of the same hand ; if thou hast an Eare thou mayst heare , for it is one Word of Life which the same hand layd on : what their Eyes saw , what was from the beginning , 1 Iohn 1. 1 2 3 which was made manifest , which was the Word of Life , which was made manifest even from the begining , which they did declare ▪ but Freind , what is this to thee for the maintaining of thy Imitacion , and the likeness of it , and thy laying on of hands , which thy Ministers imitate , who walk out of the Steps of Christ , and of the Apostles , and are made Ministers by the w●ll of man , and your laying on of hands is by the will of man , and your Ordinacion stands cut by the will of man , which is all Carnall , and we do deny it all , as the Apostles did , who denyed the carnall commandements , Col 2 22 23 19 Query , Whether hath not Chrst Ordained a Maintenance for that Ministry ? Answ , They that Preach the Gospel , live of the Gospel , 1 Cor 9 14 and freely they have received , freely do they give , Ma● 10 8 and he that ministers spirituall things to the Brethren , they minister unto him carnall things , Rom 15. 27. but Freind what is this to thee to maintain thy Church , and thy Ministers , who bear rule by their means , and who goest in the error of Balaam , receiving the wages of unrighteousness , Jude 11. and who su men at the Law that will not pay them . A horrible filthy thing is committed in the Land , Jer. 5. 30 , 31. by those who profess themselves to be Ministers of the Gospel , which it is slandred by you all , and Iesus Christ his worthy Name is dishonoured and blasphemed by you all , and these are the Ministers of thy Church who are ordained by laying on of your hands , who walk contrary to Christ and the Apostles , for they did never su men at the Law ; here under a colour thou askest whether Christ hath not ordained a Maintainance for that Ministery , whereby thou wouldst have a Cloak to maintain the Ministers of the World , which seek for their Gain from their Quarter , Ier. 5. which the Lords Prophets cryed against , and seek for the Fliece which Ezekiel cryed against , Ezek. 24. 2 , 3. and Hierlings which Micah cryed against , Micah 3. 11. and them that loves the wages of unrighteousness , which the Apostle cryed Wo against , Iude 11. and the Wo is upon thee now , which standest up for Balaam with a colour . 20 Query . Whether were Tithes payd before the Levitical Priesthood , and when ? and how dost thou prove by Scripture they were taken away ? Answ . Abraham payd Tithes , and the Levites received Tithes , and they that are the sons of Levi , who receive the Offices of the Priesthood have a Commandment to take Tithes of the People , according to the Law , that is , of their Brethren ; but the Priesthood being changed , there is also a necessity of changing the Law , Heb. 7. 12. and here is a proof for thee , and here I prove thee to be under the Curse , and to stand up for the Law , and to be a Deceiver , and an Antichrist , because thou deniest Christ come in the ●lesh , 1 Iohn 4. 3. and there thou art holding up that which Christ came to put an end to ; and here I will prove all your Teachers ( as y●u call them ) to be without Christ , and that Christ never sent them ▪ for whom he sent forth he sayd unto them , Freely ye have received , freely give : and what a stir is here for your Tithes , and Gifts , and Augmentacions , you make it manifest where your heart is ; for you are wrangling for these things which are earthly , and su men at the Law , contrary to Christs command , and the Apostles practise , who coveted no mans Gold nor Silver , God was their witness ; and here you are raced out from Christ , and from all the servants of God , for they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ but their own belly , Rom. 16. 18. whose glory is their shame , who minde earthly things , Phil. 3. 19. evil beasts , and slow-belleys , whose end is destruction . 21 Query . Whether did Christ command his Disciples to baptize with Water ? and whether did they baptize with Water ? Answ . Here thou hast shewed forth thy subtlety , that thou art ignorant of the Letter , what dost thou reade in the Letter , Christ sent them forth and bade them Go teach all Nacions , baptising them in the Name of the Father , and of the Son , and of the Holy Ghost , Matth. 28. 19. the Baptism and Water we witness , Iohn 3. 5. for the Water is a witness which the Apostles baptized withall , 1 Iohn 5. 8. He that hath an Ear let him hear , but thou hast none , neither didst thou ever come to this Baptism , Christ did not send forth his Disciples to sprinkle a little durty Water upon Childrens faces , as your filthy Dreamers do , and tell them it is an Ordinance of Christ , who are Lyars of him , for Christ did not mencion any Water to his Disciples when he sent them forth , but bade them teach the People all things whatsoever he had commanded them , and sayd ▪ he was with them to the end of the world : in this Query I see thy intent , thou wouldst have a Cloak to hold up thy beastical Tradicions which never were commanded , thou Eenemy of God ; and with thy carnal Tradicions and beggerly Rudiments thou art full of Earth , pleading for the earthly Tradicions and Commandments , and keepest poor People in ignorance and blindness in those things God never commanded ; and here the Plagues of God are added to thee , who addest to the Prophecy written in this Book , Rev. 2● . 19. 22 Query . When Christ commanded his Apostles to baptize all Naci●●s , where do you finde Children excepted ? Answ . In thy Query before thou askedst , whether Christ did command his Disciples to baptize with Water , now thou sayst in thy next Query , when Christ commanded his Apostles to baptise all Nacions ; here thou full of all subtlety , who layest Snares , and art taken in thy Snare ▪ What hast thou to do to talk of Christs Baptism , or the Apostles ? seeing thou walkest contrary to them all ▪ and with them wouldst make a Cloak to hold up another thing which Christ never commanded , as to sprinkle Infants , for sayth he , Believe and be baptized , to the washing away of sin , which thou art full of , and livest in ; first they were to be preached to , and to come to repentance , and to believe and be baptized ; but thou dark Sot , what is this to thee in maintaining of the sprinkling of Infants with a little Water , who understand nothing ? all thy Baptism I do utterly deny , they are excepted , thou and all are excepted , but the seed ; and the Promise is to the seed not of seeds as of many , but one , Gal : 3. 16 he that hath an Ear to hear let him hear ; but thou art dead in thy sins , and uncircumcised in heart , and knowest no Baptism but the sprinkliug of Infants , which Christ never commanded , and livest in the lust of thy ignorance , having thy understanding darkned , being alienated from the life of God , & art a stranger from the covenant of Promise , a child of disobedience , who the wrath of God abides upon , Eph. 2. 12 23 Query . Whether was not Christ baptied with Water , who was above both Faith and Repentance ? Answ . Thou Hypocrite , what is this to thee ? to the sprinkling of Infants with Water , who are neither come to Faith nor Repentance , who thirty or forty years after dost tell them of Faith and Repentance , who knowest neither thy self ; and what hast thou to do to talk of Jesus who went out of the Water , Matth. 3. 16. and so the Heavens were opened , and he saw the Spirit of God , Mark 1. 9 , 10. but this makes thee never the wiser in thy fleshly understanding , for thy curious minde and fleshly understanding is to be destroyed before thou come to know this Baptism , for thou art in the nature of Herod , that queryed for the Childe to see him that he might worship him , but would have destroyed him : but for the simple ones sakes have I discovered thee and made thee bare and naked . 24 Query . Whether did not Christ institute his last Supper with Bread and Wine ? Answ . Christ doth not speak of Bread and Wine , but he took Bread , and brake it , and sayd , it was his Body ; and he took the Cup when he had given thanks he gave it to them , and they did drink all of it , and he sayd unto them , This is my Bloud of the New Testament which is shed for many , Mark 14. ●3 . and this I have witnessed , and we witness the breaking of the Bread , which is his Body , and drinking the Cup which is his Bloud , Luke 22. 17 , 20. for weare many Members and but one Body , but the Cup which thou drinkest we do deny , for thy Cup is the Cup of Devils , and thy Table is the Table of Devils , 1 Cor. 10. 16 , 17 , 21. which is an Idol and Imitacion , and thy Sacrifice is to Devils , and not to God ; and as the Apostle sayd , I would not you have fellowship with Devils , 1 Cor. 10. 20. for do not Drunkards meet at thy Table , and Swearers , cursed Speakers , and Fighters , and who follow all manner of filthy pleasures , and Idolaters , and Covetous , who live in all manner of Pride and filthiness , and these are thy Companions , and thy fellowship at thy Table ; and what hast thou to do to talk of the Cup of Christ , who sits at the Table of Devils , and drinks the Cup of Devils , 1 Cor. 10. 21. 25 Query . Whether did not Paul administer the Lords Supper to the Corinthians with Bread and Wine ? Answ . Thou carnal Sot , where did the Apostle give to the Corinthians Bread and Wine ? did not the Apostle say , The Cup of blessing which we bless is it not the Communion of the Bloud of Christ , the Bread which we break is it not the Communion of the Body of Christ ? ● Cor. 10. 16 , 17. for we being many are one Bread , and one Body , for we are all Partakers of that one Bread ; we witness this , who cannot drink the Cup of Devils , nor sit at their Table , where thou dost , for it is forbidden , 1 Cor. 10. 21. 26 Qu. Of what concernment is it to others , and how long to continu in the Church , seeing the Apostle sayth , [ As oft as you eat of this Bread ▪ and drink of this Cup , you shew forth the Lords death till he come ? ] Answ . Thou desi●est to know of what concernment it is to others , He that eateth and drinketh , not discerning the Lords Body , eateth and drinketh Domnacion to himself , untill the Lord come , 1 Cor : 11. 29. Thou askest how long it shall continu in the Church , this Bread and this Cup doth continu for ever in the Church ; it is so , As oft as they eat of this Bread and drink of this Cup , they shew forth the Lords Death till he come , 1 Cor. 11. 26. but Friend , what hast thou to do to talk of this who art in the generacion of them that were Enemies to Christ , holding up the chief Priests which sought to put him to death , who perswaded the multitude against him , Matth : 26 : 59 and who perswaded the Rulers against him , Iohn 11 : 53 so do all thy Priests now , where he is made manifest , and in that Church thou art , as thou callest it , and of the same nature of them who ever sought to destroy the just : This Cup thou never tastedst of , nor of the Bread , but they were them that were gathered off from the Priests , and from the Temple , whom this was spoken to , for these were Figures of the substance : but Friend , all thy Imitacions , and Priests , and Suppers , and Bread , and Wine , is an Imitacion , & an Image , which is the likeness of a thing which the Lord forbids , Thou shalt not make to thy self any graven Image , nor the likeness of any thing , and thou that eatest and drinkest not discerning the Lords Body , eatest and drinkest Damnacion to thy self 1 Cor. 11. 29. and there thou art 27 Query Whether the Scripture beeing Carnall , and the Letter Killing , as you say , wee may read them without danger ? Answ . The Letter which killeth , 2 Cor. 3. 6. is dangerous , for thou takest it here to warr withall against the Saints , with thy Carnall minde , giving out thy Carnall Exposicions upon it , and the Ministers of the Letter are the Ministers of Death , which is to Condemnacion , and you take it to make a Trade with it , and with what the Prophets , Christ , and Apostles sayd ; and again you take it to make a Trade upon it , so that some have 30 , some 40 , some 50 , some 60 , some a 100 pounds a year : where was ever such things practised , or heard of , amongst all your Fathers the false Prophets ! you do exceed them all in wickedness , and Paint your selves , and are Hyerlings , and get up in the room of Christ : you seem like Christ in words , having painted your selves with Christs words , and the Apostles words , but Christ cryed Wo unto such whited wals : and here you read with danger , who speak of them and speak a Lye , Ier 5 2. because you speak not what is in you , because you speak of your selves ; and it is dangerous to read that , and to make a Trade of that which the Prophets , Christ , and the Apostles spoke forth freely , and to give meanings to it contrary then it is , and to raise Poynts , Tryalls , and Motives , and Uses ; here is adding , and the Curses and Plagues , are added to him that adds to the Prophesie written in this Book , and there you are , for destruction is your Porcion , Rev. 22. 18. But I say , blessed is he that doth read , and doth understand , and he that doth neither add , nor diminish , for he walks in the Paths of the Prophets , of Christ , and the Apostles , and in the Steps of Abraham ; and the Apostle said , I charge you by the Lord , that this Epistle be read among all the holy Brethren , but you are Ignorant and unlearned , 2 Pet : 3 : 16 : and you wrest the Scriptures to your own destruction ▪ Psal : 56 : 5 : and to you it is dangerous to read or speak of it , who know not the Life of it , even as the Pharises , who were learned in the Letter , but knew not Christ ; and some of the Apostles who were not learned men in the Letter , did not wrest the Scriptures , as the same Peter , was learned in the Life , though not in the Letter : but you are in the state of the Hypocrits and Serpents , which garnish the Sepulchers of the Righteous : Fill yee up the measure of your Fathers : yee Serpents , yee generacion of Vipers , how can you escape the Damnacion of Hell , Matth : 23 : 2● : 23 ▪ and the Letter is carnall , and killeth , and Dust is the Serpents meat , Gen : 3 : 14 : and that is thy meat ; and Cursed is the Serpent which beguiles , and thou art he : look not for him without thee , for he is in the Letter , and you get the Letter into your mouths , and come and say , The Lord saith , when he never spoke to you : Wo is unto you , and the Harlot which is dect with so many Colours , and there you are , read your own Porcion , destruction : he that hath the same Spirit that gave the Scriptures forth , reads them without Conceivings , or Imaginacions ▪ and witnesses them fulfilled , but thou art Proud , and livest in thy Imaginacions and Conceivings , and thou Conceivest of the Letter , and whatsoever thou buildest must be scattered , Luke 1 : 51 , 52 : so to thee it is dangerous . 28 Query . Whether they were written for our Instruction , and are profitable , that we may be throughly furnished ? Answ . They are for the perfecting of the Man of God , for the furnishing of him through Faith in Christ Jesus ; and they were written to instruct them whom they were written to , which had an Eye to see them , and an Eare to hear them , and an heart to understand ; whom the Apostles spoke to for instruction , till the ends of the world was come ; and they are for instruction , to instruct & to admonish , but not to make a Trade of : but Freind to thee I speak in this Query , thou art a Tempter , and that minde in thee knowes nothing of them , that they were not spoken forth to instruct , for that is for destruction , for look within thy self , and thou wilt see thou art full of Corrupcion , and the man of Sin , and he it is that talks and prattles of the Scripture , who must be consumed , but wee witness that they are for the perfecting of the man of God , through Faith in Christ Iesus , for to Convince , and to Reprove , and to Instruct , but not thee thou man of Sin , and Son of Perdicion , who sitest in the Temple of God , above all that is called God , and gattest the form of words , and deceivest the Simple , as a coloured Beast , and the Plagues of God are thy due and Porcion : for thy instruction they were not written , who walkest contrary to the Commands of God who art exalted above all that which is called God in thee , in whom the Mystery of Iniquity , lodgeth , and the Son of Perdicion , which shall be destroyed 2 Thess . ● . 29 Query . Wherefore doth Christ command Iohn to write to the Angell of the Churches , in the Revelacions , and not teach Immediatly himself , seeing you tell us that God Immediatly teacheth his People , and that all men have this Teacher within them ? Answ : Thou Enemy of Christ , and of all Righteousness , what hast thou to do to question Christs commanding Iohn ? thou full of all subtlety , and busie fellow , what hast thou to do to question Christ , who art exalted above all that is called God ; here thou shewest thou would not have him to reign : the same that spoke to Iohn was immediate , and that which Iohn spoke was immediate ; if thou hast an Ear thou mayst hear what Iohn spoke to the Church ; but I see thy intent in thy Query , to me thou art discovered , for in thy Query thou wouldst have a Cloak to keep up the Teachers of the World , and your imitated Churches , who walkest in the path contrary to Christ and all his Apostles : God immediatly doth teach his People by his Spirit , by which he draws them up to himself into the everlasting Covenant , Heb. 8. 11 by which they need no man to teach them , 1 Iohn 2. 27 and every one is enlightned with the Light , which is Christ ; but all such blinde Guides as your Teachers are , who draw People from this Light within them , to hearken to their imaginacions of the Letter without you ; such I say do bewitch them , and draw them into the uncleanness , and into the flesh that the fruits of it shews it self , Gal : 5. 21 drunkenness , fighting , wrangling , quarrelling , railing , disputing , and slandering , envying , persecuting , lying , swearing , and taking the Name of God in vain , idle talking , and foolish jesting , scoffing , scorning , and mocking , and all manner of filthiness and uncleaness ; and these are they that are led from their Teacher within them , which is the Light , by you blinde Watchmen , Isai 56. 10 , 11 , 12 from the Light which is Christ , which he hath enlightned them withall , and he that loves the Light brings his works to the Light , and there is no occasion of stumbling to him that walks in it , and loves it , and this Light is not a Chapter without , which the Teachers of the World read , Thou that hatest this Light , thou hast it , it lets thee see that all thy Deeds are evil , if thou bringst thy works to it , it will reprove thee , Iohn 3. ●0 and this is the condemnacion of the World ; and here every one hath a Teacher , whose mindes are informed : Iohn 8. 12 to that in every mans conscience do I speak , which should exercise it , which shall eternally witness me , and eternally condemn thee , and you all who are haters of Light ; and what hast thou to do to talk of Iohn , and of Christ , and of the Churches , and of the Angels , and knowest not the first Principle yet ? Heb : 5. 12 which should guide thee out of the World , and bring thee to Repentance , but to this thou art an Enemy to , and among the Antichrists , which say , Lo here , and Lo there , Matthew 24. 23 30 Query . Why do you teach , exhort , write Papers , and print Books ? Answ : In thy Query before thou askest whether the Scriptures were written for our instruction ; and now thou askest , why do we exhort and teach ; here thou shewest forth that thou art tormented , and thy terror begins : for our giving forth Papers or Printed Books , it is from the immediate eternal Spirit of God , to the shewing forth the filthy practises of the Worlds Teachers , and thine , who with a pretence and fair colours and glosses , and with a seeming Religion deceives the simple , and thy own soul too ; we have bin long under captivity by you , and such as you , following your imaginacions , but God hath raised up a Light within us , by which we see you Deceivers without us , and all the blinde Guides , Matth : 23 : 16. so for the simple ones sakes , who are led by the blinde , as we are moved by the immediat Spirit of Christ , to write , to teach , or to exhort , or to put in Print , and this is it which doth torment thee , but it is but the beginning of thy sorrow , and this is from the immediat Spirit of Christ , which thou art offended withall , as ever the Pharises were ; but thou shalt see more Papers and more Printings , and as the immediat Spirit grows , there will be more abominacions , and filthiness layd open , and all Deceit will be discovered , and the Truth spread abroad and cherished , which will and doth trouble thee , as Herod was when Christ was born , Matth : 2 : 3 31 Query . What is Conscience ? where is it seated in man ? and what is its office and duty ? Answ : Thou hard-hearted Pharaoh , hast thou been a Professor so long , and yet askest what is Conscience ! thou full of subtlety , and Tempter , it is that which thou makest shipwrack of , 1 Tim : 1 : 19 shut up from thy dark understanding , and thy dark Reason ; it is seated below the hypocrisie in thee , thou art a Tyrant to it , and rulest over it , yet in thy carnal knowledg thou wouldst know it to talk of it ; but Plagues and Curses are du to that nature , which thou must know before thou know the office or duty of it , as thou speakest , for yet thou art in the hardness of thy heart ; and here thou hast overturned thy self : thou hast before asked many Queryes , but the intent is to maintain thy carnal state , which seares the Conscience , the tender part in man : but Friend , if thou hearken to the Light , to that in thy Conscience do I speak , 2 Cor. 5. 2. it will let thee see what Conscience is , thou hard bea rt , and it will exercise thy Conscience towards God and towards man , Acts 24. 16 and here shalt thou see its duty and office , and where it is seated , and by it how thy understanding is enlightned , and by it how thy heart is cleansed ; if thou hast an Ear thou mayst hear ▪ thou that wouldst be taught what Conscience is , and where it is seated ; for shame lay away thy filthy Profession , who wouldst know where Conscience is , it is under thy hypocrisie , who art comprehending Conscience with thy carnal Wisdom and Reason , but thou must be confounded and condemned with that which should exercise thy Conscience , 2 Cor : 5 : 11 and here thou hast shewed forth thou dost not know the first Principle , but art without ▪ and one of them whose Conscience is seared , 1 Tim : 4 : 2 32 Query . If thou have the Spirit of Christ , and in a large measure , as some give out of thee , taking upon thee to be a Teacher , as also sending many Queryes to others ; I require of thee an Answer to these Queryes not in ambiguous and doubtfull terms , as the Devil in his Oracles , but in plain Language affirmatively or negatively , full and clear according to the Spirit in the Gospel-times , that he that runs may reade it ; or else confess thou art led with a spirit of deceit and darkness which would not willingly descover it self ? Answ : Thou sayst , if I have the Spirit of Christ , which I have and witness it , but as taking upon me in the will to be a Teacher as you are made Teachers , that I do deny ; I do deny the will , and you both , 1 Cor : 2 : 17 and all who are made Ministers by the will of man : but the sending forth Queryes which grieve thee ▪ to others , is that you may shew forth your folly as you have done in answering them , by your dark minde which cannot comprehend the Light , in which they are given forth , but shews forth your darkness , blindness , ignorance , and folly , and despight against the Spirit of Grace , being Enemies to Jesus Christ which is the Light in us , and hath discovered and layd open your deceits and blindness , and to all who have their Eys in their Head your folly is made manifest . 2 Tim : 3. 9 And thou hast here discovered thy ignorance , and shewed forth thy folly in these Queryes , thou dost require an Answer to these Queryes in plain Language which thou hast sent . I have spoken plainly to thee , and not flattered thee ; and as touching ambiguous terms they are thy own , as the Devil in his Oracles , thou art guarded with them ; I comprehend thee , and see thy Cloathing , and thy Affirmative , and thy Negative proceeds from thy cursed minde , but sound and clear I have answered thee , according to the Spirit that is in the Gospel , but to thy dark minde they will be dark , for thou neither knowest the Spirit nor the Gospel , for I have answered thee in the Gospel-time , and he that hath the Spirit may run and reade it , and reade thy spirit to be the spirit of Error ▪ erred from all them that did preach the Gospel , which ever were : we are not led by a spirit of Error , but it we do deny , therefore we do deny thee ; therefore openly , and freely , and nakedly do I declare my self to the discovering of the spirit of Error , which is in thee , and all thy blinde Guides : who is led by the Spirit of Truth hath discovered you to be in the deceit , and in darkness , without God in the world , the Plagues of God are to be poured upon the Beast and the false Prophet , and the Beast and false Prophet are to be cast into the fier , Rev : 20. 10 there is thy porcion ; now do not call this railing and rash judgment , for thou knowest the Letter thunders , and speaks forth such words to such as thou art , who livest in that nature ; Friend , this is thy day of visitacion , 2 Cor : 5. 11 to that which is in thy Conscience I have spoken , which shall eternally witness me , and condemn thee , 1 Cor : 4. 2 The mouth of the Lord of Hosts hath spoken it . The Preparacion of the Heart in Man , and the Answer of the Tongue ●● from the Lord , Prov : 16. 1 FINIS . NOw all you who are doting about Questions , and are Ministers of Questions , and not Ministers of Grace , nor Edificacion , but are busi-bodyes , tempting , and laying Snares , and digging Pits , lye are now fallen into the Pits which ye have digged for others , and you who are wise are taken in your own craftiness ▪ and you are now answered from the mouth of the Lord , and discovered , and to every one is rendred his du and porcion ; but you sollowing the steps of your fathers the Iews , you ( as they did marvel at his Answers , though he was the Son of God , Luke 20. 26 ) now you are answered , own your porcion , for I have kept back nothing , what I received freely from the Lord , freely I have declared unto you without parciality , or having mens persons in admiracion , because of advantage , not favouring deceit , nor giving liberty to sin , for the Lord hath given us a mouth , and wisdom , which all our Gain-sayers are not able to resist , and we walk in the pure wisdom of God , and wisely towards you that are without , redeeming the time , and our speech is with Grace , seasoned with Salt , and we know how to answer every man , Col : 4. 5 , 6 Prayses , Prayses to the Lord for ever , who takes the wise in their craftiness , and confounds , and brings to shame all his Enemyes , and discovers all Serpents , with their twistings , and twinings , and subtle and cunning temptacions , and hath fulfilled his Apostles words in his Sons and Daughters , in making their folly manifest to all men , and they shall proceed no further , 2 Tim : 3. 9 and now the painted Serpents , the well-favoured Harlots , the divers coloured Beasts , and the wily Foxes , are discovered to his Sons and Daughters , that they cannot spoyl the tender Plants which the Lord himself hath planted in his Peoples hearts , the Plants of his Renoun grows and flourisheth ; Prayses , Prayses to the eternal , powerfull God for ever . Let all the Sons and Daughter of the Lord prayse the Lord ▪ Let all the Fathers and young men , Children and Servants bless and prayse the Lord for ever , who reigns for evermore . Richard Hubberthorn . 
A44832	----	A collection of the several books and writings of that faithful servant of God, Richard Hubberthorn who finished his testimony (being a prisoner in Newgate for the truths sake) the 17th of the 6th month, 1662. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. 1663 Approx. 819 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 177 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2005-12 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A44832 Wing H3216 ESTC R16018 12431450 ocm 12431450 61974 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A44832) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 61974) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 279:8) A collection of the several books and writings of that faithful servant of God, Richard Hubberthorn who finished his testimony (being a prisoner in Newgate for the truths sake) the 17th of the 6th month, 1662. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662. [16], 72, 188 [i.e. 288] p. Printed and are to be sold by William Warwick, London : 1663. Errata: p. [16]. Reproduction of original in Yale University Library. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. EEBO-TCP is a partnership between the Universities of Michigan and Oxford and the publisher ProQuest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by ProQuest via their Early English Books Online (EEBO) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). The general aim of EEBO-TCP is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic English-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in EEBO. EEBO-TCP aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the Text Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). The EEBO-TCP project was divided into two phases. The 25,363 texts created during Phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 January 2015. Anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. Users should be aware of the process of creating the TCP texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. Text selection was based on the New Cambridge Bibliography of English Literature (NCBEL). If an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in NCBEL, then their works are eligible for inclusion. Selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. In general, first editions of a works in English were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably Latin and Welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. Image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. Quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in Oxford and Michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet QA standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. After proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. Any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. Understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of TCP data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. Users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a TCP editor. The texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the TEI in Libraries guidelines. Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Society of Friends. Society of Friends -- Doctrines. 2004-12 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-02 SPi Global Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-05 Olivia Bottum Sampled and proofread 2005-05 Olivia Bottum Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion A Collection OF THE SEVERAL BOOKS AND WRITINGS OF THAT Faithful Servant of GOD , Richard Hubberthorn , Who finished his Testimony ( being a Prisoner in NEWGATE for the Truths sake ) the 17 th of the 6 th Month , 1662. And I heard a voice from Heaven , saying , Blessed are the dead which hereafter dye in the Lord , even so saith the Spirit , that they may rest from their labours , but their works shall follow them , Rev. 14.13 . LONDON , Printed , and are to be sold by William Warwick , 1663. TO THE READER . THe glory of the everlasting God , and the Light of his powerful Truth hath so far appeared , and is so effectually manifest in our day , that the veil of darkness is removed from off the hearts of thousands , who have received the love of the Truth as it is in Christ Jesus the everlasting Light , and the life of the righteous and ugright in heart , who walk in the way of the Lord ; and many thick clouds of darkness and error which have darkned the minds of people are dispersed by the arising and shining forth of the Sun of righteousness , and the visitation of the day-spring which hath dawned from on high , blessed and praised be the name of the mighty God , who hath raised up unto himself a royal-seed to bear testimony of his Name in righteousness , against which no weapon formed shall prosper : Albeit this seed hath been largely tried and persecuted by the seed of enmity and evil-doers , and sons of Belial , who have made it their work to seek to obstruct the work of the Lord by persecuting his servants , and reviling his faithful witnesses , and reproaching and blaspheming his living ●ruth and way , even till a line of confusion is come over them , and they have split themselves against the rock , and the stone which the builders have rejected , which is exalted and set over them all . And now as for these Priests and Professors who ●ave so much busied themselves in opposing and gain-saying ●he Lord's people called , Quakers , and those righteous Prin●iples and Doctrines held forth by them , the work of these op●osers is come to nought , and they have apparently missed of ●heir ends and exspectations , and they have wearied themselvs ●or very vanity , and they and their work is manifest to the ●ation , and the folly of it in a great measure ; after they have ●rought forth their cause , and produced their strong Reasons ●as they have esteemed them ) which the truth and Spirit of understanding ( in it's Witnesses ) hath evidently confuted , and brought to nought . And how hath shame , and dishonour , and Contempt ( in the eyes of all sober , and Indifferent people ) come upon many of our oppressors , and Adversaries , the Priests and professors ? who after they have been striving and contending against our preaching up , and vindicating the Light of Christ in every man , Joh. 1.9 . Rom. 1.19 . and perfection , and freedom from sin as attainable , in this life , to such as believe in Christ ( who is manifest for that end , 1 Joh. 3. ) they themselves ( who have opposed , and withstood , these truths ) are turned into grosser darkness and confusion then ever , many being turned from their pretended Reformation , Covenant , and Directory now , to complain with the prophane , that they have done those things they ought not to have done , and left undone those things which they ought to have done , and there is no health in them ; and so now they cry , Lord have mercy upon us miserable sinners , or miserable offenders , &c. as in their divine service ( so called ) which formerly they exclaimed against , who now are turned to it : So as it 's come to pass upon them as upon the false prophets , and hireling priests of old . Night is unto them , the Sun is gone down upon them , and the day is become dark over them , and the seers are ashamed , and the diviners confounded ; for there is no Answer of God nor vision unto them ( many of whom have preached , and prophesied falsly against us , and of our overthrow , til● they are overturned themselves ) Micah 3. and many tha● have been as em●nent Leaders , overseers , and tall Cedars amongst the outside and form all professors of our times , ar● fled as the hireling , ( that cares for himself , more then the flock ) and their mouths are stopt , and they ready to hide themselves ; when those they account wolves , devourers , an● superstitious persons , comes amongst their flocks , manifestin● that they are not true shepherds , nor built upon the Rock Chri●● Jesus ; for their profession will not abide the storms , nor endu●● the Winter ; so as much of our work and controversies ( wil● such our Antagonists ) is over ; for they were the highest a● most contentious against us , where the Truth , and power ● God first appeared amongst us , to gather us out from ●mongst them unto Christ the true shepherd ; and when they could have ●he Magistrates and powers of the earth on their side , as to prosecute for them , and to feed them with the wages of unrighteousness , and maintain them in Balaams way . And now the righteous testimony of the servants of the Lord liveth , and remains as upon Record against the unrighteousness and falshood of such ; and in particular , the faithfull testimonys and true evidences given for the truth , and held forth by that faithfull servant , and follower of Chr●st ( and brother , and Companion in the work of the Gospel , R. Hubber●horne ; Concerning whom ( I hearing that some have taken in hand to Recollect as many of his Books as they could , to be Reprinted ) it is in my heart by the spirit of the Lord , and in true love to his truth , to signifie these things in short ( to be annexed unto them ) for the sake of the world , and such as knew him not ; having had more conve●se with him , and experience and knowledge of him then many others had . 1. That he was a true and faithfull Instrument in the hand of the Lord in his day for the turning many from darkness to the light , and from error to truth ; First , by informing , instructing , and admonishing people to the light of Christ which appeareth , and shineth in the hearts and consciences of the children of men , and against the darkness , pollutions , falfe ways , professions and worships of the world , &c. Secondly , by preaching and holding forth the new and living way , the substance and end of figures , and shaddows ( which many in the darkness of apostacy have been Doting about ) and the true & saving knowledg of God , and his Son Jesus Christ within his people , to become their Wisdom , Righteousness , sanctification and redemption ; and in which they come to experience the justification of life : according to the Witness given by the primitive saints , Christians , and true witnesses of Christ. 2. And the gift of God bestowed upon him ( the sa●d R. H. ) was very pretious , honorable , & clear , & lives with us , & in our Remembrance , & hearts : & thereby he was made a faithfull Contender for the living faith ( which was once delivered unto the saints ) which stands in the power of God , & worketh by love , & giveth the Creature victory over the world , & purifieth the heart , and maketh man obedient , and faithfull unto Go● as he lives in it till he hath fought the fight of it , and overcome his spiritual enemy , & power of darkness which hath led man from his Maker into sin and transgression ; so as the gift of God did largely shew forth it self in the said servant of Christ , by opposing and renouncing Errors , stopping the mouths of ( and many times convincing ) gainsayers . 3. And though his bodily presence and his speech to some seemed weak and contemptible , yet we can in the truth bear witness , that he was a man both of a solid spirit , and quick understanding , and delivered weighty things in his ministring , as were felt by such as were unprejudiced , who were impartial , sober , and staied in their spirits ; and the innocency and uprightness of his life and conversation so many have a certain knowledge , and can give their testimony thereof , that I shall need to say little as to that ; and he labored for peace , unfeigned love , and unity in the Truth amongst people , witnessing against that spirit ( and those things ) in any , which would either make division , or cause offences or stumblings in any thing contrary to the Gospel of peace and salvation wherein the mystery of the everlasting and true fellowship consisteth ; and he truly preached the Cross of Christ , and true judgment to such spirits as would live in a form and notion of Truth , out of the life , power and true obedience ; who though they may profess great matters in words , and strain after high things in the carnal comprehension , yet are but in the state of such as were dead , as unto whom the Gospel hath in judgment bee● preached , that they might be judged as men in the flesh , bu● live according to God in the Spirit , as that follower of Christ and Minister of righteousness R. H. hath held forth , who walked in his integrity to the Lord , and ●●tained his first love and habitation in the truth ; being over all such changeable spirits as would lead from it into any ways or things tending to be get prejudice , division , or offences in the minds contrary to th●● pure love which stands in the living unchangeable Truth . An● this I must needs say touching that man , that I never felt more of the presence and love of God accompanying him , the● I did in that time we were sufferers and conversant togethe● in Newgate before his decease . And he ( viz. R. H. ) was taken away in a time of suffering and tryal for the testimony of a good conscience ( being in the year 1662. ) in which many of the Lords people were under persecution , especially in the City of London , for the exercise of their tender consciences in meeting together in the worship of God ( as the Saints and true Christians in the Primitive times did ) and diverse others of the innocent and faithful servants of Christ ( who were sufferers upon the same account in Newgate , London ) laid down their lives for the ●estimony of Jesus about that time as he did , being for the most ●art taken weak and sick in prison , and ( as was judged by the most part ) their hard imprisonment , and deep suffering ( being crouded together in great companies the hot season , in prison ●nd in holes ) was the occasion and beginning of their distem●er and sickness whereon they died , before they were dischar●ed of their imprisonment ; So as he nor they did suffer , nor ●ere taken away for any evil-doing , or in wrath or judgment , ●ut in the peace and love of God as to them-ward , having pa●iently endured ( and faithfully finished their course with joy , ●nd fulfilled their testimony in faithfulness ) as seeing him ●hat is invisible , having received a crown of glory and life ; ●hose memorial lives with us , and is for ever blessed ; and ●hus the Lord hath many times taken away the righteous ●●om the evil to come , who through faith have received a ●●od report , and left an everlasting testimony behind them . And now blessed are all they that in faith , patience and sin●●rity do follow the Lamb unto the end whithersoever ●e goeth , ●hether it be through tribulations , persecutions ; or what suf●●rings soever ; for such are they that ke●p their habitations 〈◊〉 the power and love of God , and such overcome by the blood 〈◊〉 the Lamb , and the word of their testimony , and shall reign ●ith Christ as victorious Conquerors in his everlasting king●●m over death and darkness , and the power of it ; and such 〈◊〉 abide in the love of the Truth and Faith of Gods Elect , do 〈◊〉 and witness that seed which God will exalt over the earth , ●●●ore which he will root out and overturn his enemies that his 〈◊〉 plant may take deep root , and spread to the ends of the 〈◊〉 . And so all friends who have received the love of the Truth , and the knowledg of the life and power thereof , wherein is immortality to the faithful and obedient . Be valiant for the Truth upon earth , and live in true love , unity and peace ; always minding and fol●owing those things which make for peace ; and feel the true and constant love and fellowship in the Gospel of peace , life and salvation ; And so blessings from on high will fill your hearts , and the glory of the Lord will be your rereward in the everlasting inheritance of life with the holy seed which will out-live all its enemies , and remain when the enmity of the wicked , and the seed of it is removed and gone . So the Lord exalt his Name and Truth , and promote his Kingdom over all that is contrary to himself , that he alone may have the glory and preheminence whose right it is . G. W. Waltham in Essex the 27 of the 11 month , 1662. Epist. pag. 4. lin . 30. for attained , read retained . pag. 5. lin . 16. for so as he , read so as neither he . Reader , this following Testimony was given forth by our dear Friend Edward Burroughs before he finished his testimony by death for the Truths sake , which I thought fit here to insert . RIchard Hubberthorne was born in the North part of Lancashire , and was of very honest Parents ; his Father was a Yeoman of the Country , and had a good Report of his Neighbours for uprightn●sse in all his dealings ; and Richard was his onely Son , who was inclinable from his youth upwards to Religion and to the best way , always minding the best things , and following the company of good men , and was never known to be addicted to vice or malignity , nor ever following any evil course of life from his Child hood , but f●●red the Lord , and walked uprightly before him , and 〈◊〉 faithful according to the Light and knowledge received in all things ; and his natural disposition & temper was meek and lowly , and loved peace among men ; he was brought up with his Parents in good education , according to the custom of the Country ; and in time of the late Wars , he was disposed ro go into the Army , and was in Scotland most of the time till the Land was reduced ; and he had some office in a Regiment , and did sometime preach among his sincere and sober Companions that loved him wel , according to his knowledg and judgment at that day ; and he obtained a good Report amongst such as were lovers of Religion . And when it pleased the Lord God everlasting to raise us up to be a People in the North parts , ( and through great Tribulations and extream distresses within and without , which we passed through , were we raised up of the Lord to be a holy and chosen People ) This same Person was one among the first of us whose heart the Lord touched with the sence of his Power and Kingdom ; and amongst us he had the mighty operation of the Power of God experienced in his heart ; Great afflictions and tribulations for many weeks was he exercised in , through the dispensation of the Grace and Spirit of Christ Jesus ; he was in that state , and while therein exercised for many dayes , a wonder to all that beheld him , as one passing out of the body , as one under the deep sence of the hand of the Lord , under the operation of his Power ; thus it was with many of us , and particularly with him ; Till such time as the same Power that killed made alive , as wounded also ●e●led , as brought down also raised up , and then being raised up in the holy Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ , he was made a Minister of the Everlasting Gospel , to preach Repentance , Conversion , Salvation , and Remission of sins ; and accordingly went forth in the Name and Power of the Lord Jesus the Saviour of m●n : kind ; and was a Minister of the glad Tydings of Salvati●n , in many parts of this Land and elsewhere ; to the conversion of many Souls to God ; for his Ministry was made effectual by the Almighty Power of the Lord , to turn many from darknesse to light , from the power Satan to God ; and there are thousands who can in the Spirit of the Lord bear Testimony to the power and verity of his Ministry , in many Countreys where he travelled ; for he laboured much in divers places , and was very diligent and faithful in the work of the Lord , and suffered imprisonment divers times , and was hardly dealt withal , and persecuted in Chester , Cambridge and in Norwich prisons and other places ; and he was found faithful in all his Tryals among his Brethren , and alwayes ready to do his service in what he was called unto with a willing , mind , being truly in body , soul and spirit given up to the service of the Gospel of Christ Jesus , a dispensation of which was committed unto him , that he might serve the Lord in his Generation ; and though he how hath finished his Testimony in this World , yet the remembrance of him lives with us in the Spirit of Jesus , and he is accounted among the faithful Sufferers , a Martyr for the witnesse of the Truth which ever liveth . And for the space of nine years he laboured and travelled in the work of the Gospel aforesaid , in most of the Counties of this Nation , and was well known for his faithfulness among the Churches of Christ ; He was but little in stature in his outward man , and of weak Constitution of body , and was slow of speech , and often more ready to hear then to speak ; he made little appearance in the manhood of Excellency or Authority , but was contemptible among men , yet he was very wise , and knew his season when to speak , and when to be silent ; and when he spoke , it was with much discretion and deliberation , in weaknesse of word many times , yet reached perfectly the matter intended by him , and his speech was with Gra●e , and in the fear of God , and had Authority in the Spirits of men , and was of savour and sound judgement , though in weaknesse of the manhood expressed ; for he answered not mens Wisdom in excellent stile of words , but the witnesse of God in sincerity of speech ; he was a Person of sound judgement in divine Mysteries , and of good experience in the operations of the power of God , and knew the passing through divers conditions of the inward man , and was able to speak to many estates of man passing under the dispensations of the Grace of God ; he could well inform the mind of a person in an afflicted and tossed state of terrour and judgement ; and his Ministry was often savoury and seasonable , and felt in the pure life , though his words were plain and homely , and no beauty in them to mans Wisdom ; and God made him and his service a blessing to many who shall speak for him in their own Consciences ; He was of a loving , gen●le and good disposition , and acceptable was his Company to them that knew him and were like-minded ; a good Companion in all Conditions , not soon moved into passion of either grief in Adversity , or of joy in Prosperity ; nor had he a Spirit taking offence upon light occasions against any , but watched for Good over all , and not for Evil ; He was a man of peace , and loved it , and walked peaceably among his brethren , in honest kind familiarity ; And I am perswaded in my Soul , according to the experience I had of him for many years , he abhorred dissention and strife among Friends , and was never the real occasion intendedly by himself , of any difference and dissention among brethren ; and what further is Truth of him , I leave it to the just God , whose testimony is true and never fails . Among many others that were taken from Meetings and sent to Newgate , according as ye have ●eard , This same Person of whom I am now treating , was in like manner rudely and violently taken on the 22 th . day of the 4 th . Month last , out of a Meeting in the Bull at Aldersgate , and carried before Richard Brown , who used violence to him with his own hands , in pulling his Hat down upon his head so that he brought his head near the ground , and then he Commirted him to Newgate , where he remained till the Sessions , and was then indicted among the rest , for being at an unlawful Meeting . &c. as it is said ; and he being throng'd up in Prison among the rest of us , it pleased the Lord to visite him with sickness of body , and in 10. dayes space ( always growing weaker and weaker in that time ) he deceased and laid down his body in peace : About two days before his departure , some of his dearest Friends went to visite him , and sate by him a space , and spoke somwhat to him , and asked him if any thing was upon his Spirit , he might now speak it to his Friends . His answer was , That there was no need to dispute matters , for he knew the ground of his Salvation , and was satisfied for ever in his peace with the Lord God , and we know ( said he ) one another wel , and what each of us can say about those things , and spoke no further : And the 17 th . day of the 6th Month he departed this life , and was gathered up to his Fathers , the Generation of the just ; and though he be gone in that bodily appearence , and his person removed from us , yet is his new-Name written among us , and his Memory can never die , for his Spirit still lives to praise the Lord , and the life which breathed forth through that vessel cannot be removed away ; for it is the Infinite , Immortal , Eternal Life , which dwells in Sons and Daughters now upon the Earth ; and though his outward man be put off , yet he lives always in Spirit , for he was a Servant of the living God upon Earth in his day . E. B. These few lines were sent to London from G. F. since R. H. laid down the body . DEar Innocent Richard ! as Innocent a man as liveth on the Earth ; whose Innocency manifested it self , and his life is amongst us , and dead he yet liveth : Who never turned his back , but Conquered through truth , but trampled upon all evill spirits , and went over them ; who for the truth laid down his life , and in it liveth and resteth : G. F. Dear Friends , RIchard Hubberthornes Love was very Great to all the Flock of God , and in the time of his health , he was a faithful Labourer in the worke of the Lord , and that you well know , and in the time of his sickness he did Express much Love to Friends , and was greatly refreshed in them ; indeed he was a Vessel filled with a mighty Waighty Spirit , and all those who by that spirit were drawn near him , might see , know and feel him , and many there are that have a witness saying in them , Even so it was ; indeed he was hid from many , and to them unknown , and therefore not prized , and now the Lord hath taken him into his own bosome , and many were not worthy of him ; my whole family misseth him ; for in the time of his health and sickness , he was a precious Example , and in his sickness he minded not one person more than another , but often smileing , minded neither life , nor death Visible , but was filled , with the Invisible . So that his mind was redeemed out of visible things , and severall times would say , The word of the Lord , is with me , and sayed that Faith which hath wrought my salvation , I well know , and have grounded satisfaction in it ; but Faith as touching visible things , it was not much matter for minding of it , and said , I have more in me then I am free to Declare : as concerning Living or dying he had not many words , all the time of his sickness , but his minde was kept feeding in the retyredness within , so that one might feel his strength in the still spirit which kept him so that I do not remember that ever I heard him groane all the time of his sickness ; the seventh day in the morning , he asked for me , and when I came to him , he said This night or to morrow night I shall depart hence ; & the next day in the morning understanding that he asked for me , I arose & went to him , & after a while Sitting by him , he put his Arme about mee , and said Do not seek to hold me , for it is too strait for me ; and out of this straitness I must go , for I am wound into largeness , and am to be lifted up on high , far above all ; so in the Evening being the first day of the weeke , and the 17th of the 6 month he l●ft the Body . This I was free to give forth , because in the time of his sickness sometimes I kept friends from him , desireing that he might have slept , and hoping that therein he might have been refreshed . These words before mentioned , so near as I can remember , are his own words as they came from him . London the 6th M. 1662. Your Dear Friend , Sarah Blackberry . The Table of the Books following . A True testimony of obedience , to the heavenly Call &c. page . 1 An Answer to R. Sherlock of Berwick , page . 7 The Mittimus answered , by which R. H. was sent prisoner to Norvvich Castle , in the year 1654 page . 37. A true testimony of the Zeal of O●ford professors and University men who for Zeal persecute the servants of the Living God , following the ●xample of their bretheren of Cambridge , page . 41. Two Epistles to Friends , during his imprisonment in Norwich Castle , page . 45 Some Queryes for you to answer , who hold forth this testimony , to the ●eople that Christ is a Creature , page . 49 The Innocency of the righteous seed of God , cleared from all slande●ous tongues , and false accusers , page . 51 The distance between flesh and Spirit ; &c. page . 64 The Horn of the Hee Goate broken &c. page . ●3 . The Light of Christ within , proved to be sufficient to lead unto Go● , page . [ 1 ] Truth and Innocencie , Clearing Its self , & its Children ; &c. page . [ 2 ] The Rebukes of a Reviler fallen upon his own head ; page . 86 The cause of stumbling removed from all that will receive the Truth , and from before the Eyes of the wise men of London , page . 154. An Epistle concerning the Sufferings of friends , shewing the Priests wickedness and persecutions , page . 198 A Call to the Ministry according to the Scriptures , contrary to that Call which is of man , and by man , page . 203 The reall cause of the Nations bondage and slavery , and the way of their freedom , from their sore and hard bondage asserted , page . 217 An Answer to a Declaration putt forth , by the Generall consent of ●he people called Anabaptists in and about the City of London . 225 A Coppie of a paper sent to the Councell , in the year 1659. p. 234 A word of wisdom and Counsell to the officers , and Souldiers of the Army in England &c. 235. An answer to the oath of Allegiance and supremacy from the people called Quakers page , 239. Antichristian sin reproved , and the doctrine of Christ and his apostles justified against swearing , page . 242 An Answer to a Book called A just defence and Vindication of Gospell ministers , and Gospel Ordinances , page . 252 Something that lately passed in discourse between the King and R. H. page 268. R. H. His answer to Iohn Horne , page . 273. A short Relation of the twelve , changes of Government , that hath been in England , within these eight years , under all of which we have suffered persecution , page . 276. An Epistle to Friends , page . 284 Another Epistle to Friends , page . 287 Reasons why no Imposition ought to be upon mens Consciences by any but the Lord , page . 288. REader it is desired that what faults thou find'st have escaped the Press , in the ensuing treatise , to correct with thy Pen ; where thou can'st not , friendly to pass them by , for by reason of the present difficulty of having Friends Books printed , therewith came out with those Errata's , which othervvise might be amended . A true Testimony of Obedience to the Heavenly Call ; for which I suffer the losse of all things , that I may be found in obedience to him who hath called me . A Servant of the Lord , and a Prisoner for the Testimony of Jesus , whom he hath called by his grace to deny the World , and am made partaker of his sufferings , being in outward bonds ( by the deceit ) in Westchester , and of his free-will hath given me not only to bel●eve , but to suffer for his Name sake , who hath called me out of my own Countrey , and from my Father's House , and to go in obedience to his command whithersoever he shall call me : While I was young , I girded my self , and went whither I would , and then I yeilded obedien●e to my own will , and to the will of man , and was a man-pleaser , but the Will of God I knew not , neither was obedient to his commands ; but when the Lord was pleased to reveal his Son in me , and make known his Will unto me , to enlighten me with his true Light which hath enlightened every one that cometh into the World , and by it let me see my self to be a stranger to him , and knew him not , though I was grown mighty in the Aegyptians Wisdom , and was in love with the World , and in the favour of men , and in a profession and words of man's wisdom exceeded others , being in a form of godliness , but was ignorant of his Power and his Word ; but when his Power was made manifest , and his Word spoke within me , which Word was in my heart , and was as a fire or a hammer ; and this Word being made manifest within me , & my Conscience being awakened by the Light of God , which did convince me of sin , and did testifie against all my words and actions , and that just judgments of God were revealed from Heaven against that Nature I lived in , and the Trumpet of the Lord was sounded within me , and the Earth did tremble , and the Vi●ls of the wrath of the Almighty were poured down upon me , and the powers of the Earth were terribly shaken , the foundation of Wisdom and Earthly Knowledge was shaken , and the Judgements of God were upon the outward man , and my flesh was wasted off my bones , and the bones smote one against another , and I knew the Lord to be terrible , and this Word powerful , in burning up , and hammering down the lustful nature I lived in , in pleasure and wantonness , in pride and fulness , which the Word of the Lord was declared against ; and this Word I witness spoken from the Lord 's own power within me , which made my flesh and bones to tremble exceedingly , and did cause pain in all my loyns , and paleness of face ; my comeliness was turned into corruption , and my joy into lamentation , and I was brought to the bed of sorrows , where I cryed out in the bitterness of my spirit , and I had no ease nor rest day nor night , for the hearing of the ear which I did hear , and the sight of mine eyes which I did see ; I heard the sound of the Trumpet , the Alarum of War within me , terrors , wo , misery and destruction was upon me ; in my trouble I cryed in the evening , Would God it were morning ; and in the morning , Would God it were evening ; and the terrors of the Almighty being upon me , my acquaintance and familiars stood a far off me , for they knew not the power of the Lord , nor the Judgements of my God , which I do witness to be revealed and made manifest in me ; and the Lord raised up in me a love to his Word , by which all the powers of the Earth did tremble , and the Earth it self was shaken by it ; and by this Word was I called to go and declare it , as I had received it from the Lord , to those who lived in the same Heathenish nature , without the knowledge of God ; and to declare the Judgements of God against sin and ungodliness , as they were made manifest in me . And by this Word was I called to forsake Father and Mother , Lands and Living , to go in obedience to the Lord , who commanded me not to take thought what I should eat , or what I should drink , or wherewith I should be cloathed , but cast my care upon him : And this I witness the Lord's care , and those whom the Lord calls into his Work , and who labour in his Vinyard , need not complain to the World for want . And for yeilding obedience to the Lord and his commands , and not giving obedience to the corrupt Will of man , who commands me contrary to what the Lord hath commanded , do I suffer under the persecution of those who are set in the place of Rulers and Magistrates , professing themselves to be Ministers of the Law of England , and to act Justice according to that Law , and do bear the Names of Major , Justices of Peace , and Magistrates , and say they act according to the Law of the Nation , and present Government ; but they are seen to be in the generation of those who were ever persecutors of the righteous Seed where-ever it is brought forth ; and the Servants of the Lord in all ages were ever persecuted by that generation , professing to be Ministers of Justice : But that which is acted , is cruelty , persecution and injustice , and the righteous suffer , whom the Law was not made for , but for the lawless and disobedient , and was added because of transgression . The righteous Law af God was to be inflicted upon transgressors & breakers of the Law ; but the unrighteous Law of men is inflicted upon the righteous , who walk blameless , and are proved no transgressors , but in obedience to the Lord do witness a good conversation towards God , and towards men , our consciences bearing us witness in the sight of God. And those who are Rulers of the City , and Rulers of the Synagogue , under whom I suffer imprisonment , say this is their Law , That if I will home into my own Countrey , a●● to my Father's House , and stay there , and depart this City , I may be free upon this account , else I shall remain in prison : And this is contrary to the command of the Lord , for he hath commanded me out of my own Countrey , and from my Fathers house ; ( but my own Countrey , dwelling and Fathers house , the World knows not ; that which I am called from , they know ; the natural man knows that which is natural : ) And this is contrary to the Law of the Nation ; for the Law of the Nation doth not confine any to stay at one place , nor to be kept from any one City , being proved no transgressors nor breakers of the Law : But I seek a Country and City , whose Builder and Maker is God ; and truly if I had been ●●●dful of the Country I came forth , and did love the pleasures , delights and flesh-pots of Egypt , which I am called from , I might have had opportunity to have returned thither ; but in obedience to the Lord I had rather suffer affliction with the people of God , then enjoy the pleasures of Egypt . And you who say I have no lawful calling , I do witness the same Word of God the true prophets of the Lord were commanded by to declare against all sin and ungodliness ; by the same Word do I declare against it where I am commanded of the Lord , and am called out of the same calling that they were , into the same Work of the Lord that they were ; and so I do witness the testimony of my Brethren the prophets that went before me , who have left an example on record , of suffering affliction , and of patience ; and we count them happy who endure . Elisha was a Plough-man , and when the Word of the Lord came to him , he left the plough , and obeyed the Word of the Lord : And his call was lawful . Amos was a Herdsman , and a gatherer of Sycamore fruit , and the Lord took him as he was following the Flock , and the Lord said unto him , Go prophesie unto my people Israel ; and he obeyed the Word of the Lord , and prophesied In the Kings Chappel , and in the Kings Court ; and his calling was lawful : And I do witness the same call , who was a Husbandman , and had a Vinyard , and gathered fruit , till the Word of the Lord came and called me from it ; and he turned my mind within , & enlightned my understanding , and opened the Creation to me , and let me 〈◊〉 the Vinyard without was but a figure , and that I must come into his Vineyard , to labour in his Work ; and gathering fruit without , was but a figure , for there is fruit within to be gathered : A possession wirhout , was but a figure , there was a possession and an inheritance to be enjoyed within , and that figures must pass away , to come to the everlasting inheritance , which is within , which never fades away ; out of time , into that which is Eternal . And for this cause , and by this Word , did I forsake Father and Mother , Lands and Livings , House and Vineyard , to follow Jesus Christ , and do whatsoever he commands me . And this Call I witness to be lawful ; and the Word of the Lord is gone forth to command Sons and Daughters to prophesie in his Name , and th●y have no other call , and they go as they ate commanded , as ever the true prophets of the Lord did , if it be to the Kings Chappel , or to the Kings Palace , or to the Synagogues , or into the Cities or Markets , to declare against sin and iniquity , and where they see the people given to idolatry and prophaneness , their spirit being raised up by the power of the Lord , and by the Word of the Lord do they declare against it , and they have no other Call but the Word of the Lord , and they have a cloud of Witnesses , for all the Prophets of the Lord spoke from this Word , and for speaking the Word of the Lord as they were commanded , were persecuted , imprisoned , and put in dungeons , and were made a derision daily to all that were about them , as Jeremiah was , and was smitten and put in the stocks , Jer. 20.2 . and Daniel was cast into the Lyons Den for declaring the Word of the Lord , Dan. 6.16 . Amos was commanded not to prophesie any more in the Kings Chappel , Amos 7.13 . And the Apostles were imprisoned , beaten , scourged and persecuted from City to City , and straitly commanded to speak no more in that Name : And for declaring the Word of the Lord did all the Prophets , Apostles and holy Men of God suffer . And the Word of the Lord is the same now , and the persecutors the same ; and those who are sent of the Lord now , and called out of their own Countrey , as they were then , to declare his Word against your sin and ungodliness which you live in , Magistrates , Priests and p●ople , you call them Wanderers and Vagrant persons who have no lawful calling : What would you say by him who said , The Foxes have holes , and the Birds of the air have nests , but the Son of Man hath not where to lay his head , Luke 9.58 . And the Jews said , This fellow we know not from whence he is , John 9.29 . You may say Paul was a wandering person , who had no certain dwelling place , 1 Cor. 4.11 . and those who wandered about in sheep-skins and goat-skins , being affl●ct●d and tormented , of whom the world was not worthy , they had tryals of cruel mockings , scourgings and imprisonment ; they were stoned , hewn asunder , and despightfully used , Heb. 11.36 , 37. And you shew your selves to be in the same generation , mocking , scourging those whom ye are not worthy to receive . But all you dear ones , servants of the living God , blessed are you when men shall revile you , and speak all manner of evil against you falsly for my sake ; rejoice and be exceeding glad , for great is your reward in Heaven , for so persecuted they the Prophets that were before you , Mat. 5.11 , 12. You are in the same nature and generation of those who said unto Christ , Depart out of our coasts : And saith Christ , As they have done unto me , so shall they do unto you . And now I witness the same things to be fulfilled : Do not you say as they did , Depart out of our City , and teach in thy own Countrey ? And the same generation called Paul a pestilent fellow , a mover of sedition , and the Apostles would turn the World up-side-down ; and the Jews said they had a Law , That if any confest he was the Son of God , he should dye ; and they said Christ was a blasphemer ; and Christ was crucified , and the Apostles persecuted by them , and all under pretence of blasphemy , heresie and sedition ; and as it was then , so it is now ; for they who come to witness Jesus Christ come in the flesh , and bo●h sons and daughters who come to witness the promise of the Father fulfilled in them , as he hath said , I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh , and your sons and your daughters shall prophesie : And they who come to witness this fulfilled , you say they are blasphemers , and not worthy to live in the Natition ; and all those who will not lye and swear , and use deceit , but yea and nay , such a one cannot have trading in your Markets ; for none can buy nor sell who have not the mark of the Beast upon him ; but he who loveth and telleth a lye , hath the most priviledge and advantage among you : O wicked and adulterous generation , thy wo and misery is coming upon thee , for the Lord is appearing , who is come and coming to cleanse the Land of evil-doers . This I was moved to declare from the Spirit of my Father dwelling in mr , as a Testimony of his Eternal Love and Power made manifest in me , and all who come to know the Power of God which is but one , do witness me ; and all who despise the Power of the Lord , this is for a testimony against them from the Lord , by his Servant , who is a Prisoner for the Truths sake , whose Earthly Name is Chester the 12. day of the 12 th . Month , called February , 1653. Richard Hubberthorn . I came to Chester about the 29 th : of the 9 th . Month. The end of the first Book . A Reply to a Book set forth by the Priest of Berwick , who writes R. Sherlock , which was an Answer to some Queries set forth to him by them whom he calls Quakers ; who writes himself Batchellor of Divinity , and a Diviner he is proved . REader , This is the word of the Lord to thee , Take heed unto the Light Christ hath enlightened thee withall , to guide thy mind into the fear of God ; to the Light of Christ in thy conscience I speak , which if thou hearken unto it , it will lead thee out of pride and lust , and envy , and will bring condemnation upon that nature thou hast lived and acted in , that is out of the fear of God ; and hearkening to this Light in thy conscience , it will direct thy mind to God , and draw thy mind and affections out of earthly things , and the pollutions of the world , by which thou art defiled ; thy mind and conscience is defiled by lust and un●leanness , lusting after earthly things , and the flesh is defiled by that mind ●hat wallows in the Earth : Now minding the Light in thy conscience Christ hath enlightned thee withall , thy understanding will come to be en●ightned , to see the deceipts and the blind Guides which have led thee ●rom this Light in thy Conscience which should exercise it , and lead thee ●o go to fear him , and to be taught of him , and will lead thee from the ●eachings of man , which keeps thee in thy sins , and draws thee from this Light in thy Conscience , which convinceth thee of sin , and lets thee see sin ●nd evil , and all ungodliness , and will bring thee to deny it , and lead thee 〈◊〉 repentance , and so thou wilt come to know Jesus Christ , which gives ●epentance and remission of sins ; and then thou wilt deny Priest Sherlock , ●nd all that generation of Priests , who saith in th● 32. page of his Book , ●hat Christ was a person not capable of Faith and Repentance . And here I ●o charge him in the presence of the living God , to be a lyar ; for he is ●he author and finisher of faith , and he preached repentance , and gives repentance to his people . And he denies the knowledge and understanding the Apostles had , and yet saith he preaches the same Gospel , pag. 10. And saith , That external Tongues , Arts and Sciences , gives them to understand the meaning of the Gospel , p. 11. And saith , That the spirit causeth fleshly fruits , p. 22. and saith , That to understand the Doctrine of God , they must use the light of distinctions , p. 54. and saith , That Religion is the Art of Arts , p 86. And saith , That Prayer in all the parts and species thereof is a means to fetch down the holy spirit of God , p. 144. When as the Saints said , the Spirit taught them to pray , and that they prayed with the spirit and with understanding . Now to the Light in your consciences I speak , which will let you see these lying Priests and blind guides , which have deceived you so long , and kept you blind and ignorant . So all people cease from them , and wait upon the Lord for teaching . A lover of the Truth , and a witness against the deceit and deceivers , and a lover of the souls of all people ; and that righteousness might be established , was I moved t● write this . Richard Hubberthorn , Quest. 1. WHether your Gospel be the same which the Apostles preached ? And if it be , why go you to Oxford and Cambridge , when the Apostle saith , the Gospel that he preached was not after man , neither was he taught it by man ? Pr. Thy answer is , You preach the same Gospel the Apostles preached , but do not attain the knowledge and understanding of this Gospel by the same means . Rep. Here let all people see what wooden stuff this is : How can you preach the same Gospel , and have not the same kno●ledge and understanding ? If it be not by the s●●e knowledge and understanding , it is not the same Gospel ; for the spirit o● understanding is but one , and from this Spirit of under●tanding thou hast cleared thy self . Pr. And thou sayest , You ought not to depend upon any such imm●diate Revelations from Heaven as the Apostles had . Rep. Here again thou hast cleared thy self from the Spirit th●● gave forth the Scriptures , who deniest immediate Revelation from Heaven : And here thou hast denied thy self to be an● Minister of Jesus Christ ; for no man knows the Son but the Father , and he to whom he is revealed : And thou that deniest immediate revelation , thou hast denied the Son of God , and hast shewed that thou hast not life ; for he that hath not the Son of God , hath not life : And therefore we deny such Schools as Oxford and Cambridge , where the rudiments of the world are invented : And abundance of filthy words are in the Answer to this Query , that are not worth mentioning . Qu. 2. Whether you can give another meaning to the Scriptures than they are ? Or whether the Apostles did give the meaning to them when they spoke them forth , yea or nay ? And if they did , what need learned men give the meaning of them ? Pr. And in thy answer thou sayest , The sence and meaning of the Scripture is involved in it . Rep. Here thou wouldest make people believe , Christ were in the Letter , who is the substance that gave it forth , and was in them that spoke it forth ; for the Scripture doth declare another thing of God and Christ , it doth not declare God and Christ is in the Letter ; but here it is , that fools might appear blind ; and such as thou sayest ( learned men ) must give the meaning to the Scripture . Pr. And thou sayest , That Christ took a Text , and that Philip took a Text. Rep. O thou enemy and slanderer of Christ and the Apostle ! Did they take Texts to get money with them , and to lie a quarter of a year , or half a year in a Text ? Christ came to fulfil the Scripture ; and the Apostle shewed how Christ fulfilled the Scripture , and came to fulfil that which the Prophet spoke . The Scribes and Pharisees were learned men , and they could not open the Scriptures ; Peter an unlearned man , he opened the Scriptures . Pr. And thou speakest of standing up in a Pulpit of wood . Rep. In the time of the Law when they read it , there was a Pulpit of wood to a particular people to whom the Law was given ; but Christ said , Go preach the Gospel to every creature : And Christ cryed wo against them that had the chiefest place in the Assemblies . And here thou art one of them that would be under the Law , and would have a Pulpit of wood , and pleadest for thy learning , that the Scribes and Pharisees were in , which is to no purpose , who saith the kernel of the Nut is in the shell ; and that comparison thou bringest to make people believe that the Life is in the S●riptures ; and so the poor people are groping in the Letter to find life there , when the life was in them that gave it forth . Pr. Thou speakest of flying to God by prayer . Rep. Yet thou deniest the Revelation from Heaven which the Saints were to wait for , the Revelation of Jesus from Heaven ; and this makes all you blind guides to stumble , because you have not the life which gave forth the Scripture , which now is made manifest to the children of God. Qu. 3. Shew me by the Scriptures who ever was made a Minister of Jesus Christ that was called of men Master . In thy answer to this Query , thou bringest the Prophets and Priests under the Law , called Fathers , to oppose Christ's doctrine ; Thou wouldst compare Oxford and Cambridge to such as the Prophets and Apostles ; yet thou deniest immediate Revelation from Heaven : And here thou hast cleared thy self , and Oxford & Cambridge , from the life of the Prophets ; for they had immediate revelation : And so thou bringest many names , as Pastors and Shepherds , and Ministers , and Apostles , and Evangelists , to oppose Christ's Doctrine , who saith , Be not you called of men Master . So let all see if they be not under the delusion who say Master is a civil honor , and so opposeth Christ's Doctrine . Here thou hast shewed thou dost not believe ; For how can you believe , that receive honor one of another ? and shewest that thou lovest it , as the Scribes and Pharisees did , and would not part with it , and art in thy pride and vain-glory , as the Scribes and Pharisees were , who say that is a civil honor and respect which Christ cryed wo against . And herv thou hast brought thy self and all thy company under the wo , and Oxford and Cambridge in the state which Christ pronounced wo against ; and thou art judged with the same life that gave forth the Scriptures . Qu. 4. Shew me by the Scriptures where ever the Ministers of Christ took Tythes of the people , or Augmentations . In thy answer thou saist , The Priests under the Law received Ty●hes . Rep. There was a time that they received Tythes , & they might not neglect them , as denying their Tythes to the first Priesthood . There was a time after Christ , when he was sacrificed up , that he was preached the unchangeable Priesthood , Heb. 7. then the Priesthood which received tythes , was denyed ; therefore the wo is come upon thee and all thy generation , who receive tythes according to the changeable Priesthood . Here thou hast shewed thy self without judgement and rhe love of God , and the wo is come upon thee and all thy generation , who receive tythes , and hold up the changeable Priesthood , and so deny Christ come in the flesh . They that preached the Gospel , who lived on the Gospel , denied the changeable Priesthood who received Tythes ; but for shame you Ministers of Oxford and Cambridge , stop your mouths , for they must be stopt ; do not you sue men at the Law , and imprison men for Tythes ? And here you shew you do not preach the Gospel , for it will not maintain you ; for them that preached the Gospel , lived on the Gospel : There thou thief art taken , who hath gotten the Apostles words , who art for judgement . Qu. 5. Shew me by the Scriptures , and what Scripture have you which speaks of the word Sacrament , which you tell the people of , and deceive the simple . Pr. And in thy Answer to this Query thou art confused : First , thou sayest there is no Scripture for the word Sacrament ; and yet thou sayest Christ commands it , and yet thou sayest there is not such a word in Scripture . Rep. Here thou which addest to it , hast brought thy self under the plagues and wo. And here let all who are in the Light , see if thou art not a deceiver , who deceives thy soul. I charge thee again , that thou knowest not Christ , for thou deniest immediate revelation ; so thou knowest not his commands , nor dost not obey them ; for none know the Son , but to whom he is revealed . And here I charge thee to be a deceiver and a deluder of the soul from the Lord. This is in reply to the answer of the fifth Query . Qu. 6. Shew me what Scripture you have which speaks that the Apostles sprinkled Infants . Thou bringest the Scriptures ( as Christ saith ) Suffer little children to come unto me , and forbid them not , for of such is the Kingdom of God ; And this thou bringest to justifie sprinkling Infants ; for circumcision outwardly , was a type of circumcision inwardly : So thou hast not a word in the Scripture to maintain it , but thou ramblest up and down , and perverts many Scriptures , in which there is not such a word for it : And here I charge thee in the presence of the living God , to be a lyar ; for Christ never commanded sprinkling Infants , neither is it any Ordinance of Christ , neither is there any example among the holy men of God , that ever it was practised , & the plagues of God are added to thee . Let all people see if there be any word for sprinkling Infants , & let the scriptures which thou bringest judg thee , Luke 18.15 . Jer. 15.6 . Luk. 1.66.80 . Act. 10.47 . Here I charge thee with all these scriptures to be a lyar , and they shall judge the● , which thou hast brought for sprinkling of Infants ; let the Reader of thy Book examine the scriptures , and find thee a Lyar , and all thy dirty stuff which thou hast gathered from them , is to be trodden under foot with the children of the Light , who witness baptism and circumcision , and new birth born again ; and all who are here , do see thee to be blind , deaf , and a fool , and there thou mayest read thy self : Let all people see thee here , who art without the life of the scripture , who deniest immediate revelation from Heaven , which the Apostles witnessed , and the Prophets ; for without God thou art eternally , I witness it . Qu. 7. Shew me what Scripture you have to stand praying in the Synagogues before Sermon and after ? and whether the Apostles did so ? In thy answer to this query thou bringest the Apostles words , ( which said , pray alwayes ) to justifie standing praying in the Synagogues , and having the chiefest place in the Assemblies , which Christ cryed wo against : And here I charge thee to be a false Prophet , who puts no difference betwixt the Apostle and the Pharisees ; though he said , the Temple which Solomon built him , it was a house of prayer , Christ said there should not be one stone of it left upon another ; when Christ Jesus was witnessed , Stephen for witnessing him , was stoned to death . And here thou hast shewed thou hast no judgement , and errs , not knowing the Scripture . And as for Christ's whipping them out of the Temple , read thy self ; to the Light in thy Conscience I speak ; and so all thy praying before thy Sermon , and after , as thou callest it , in the Synagogues , in the chiefest place of the Assemblies , the wo which Christ pronounced against thy Fathers , hath light upon the son , thou who art found in the same place , let Matth. 23. judge thee ; the life which gave forth these words , the life of these words is upon thee , and so all thy prayers are abomination to the Lord God , in the state thou art in ; and the praying of the Saints who were moved by the spirit , thou hast cleared thy self from ; for thou deniest immediate Revelation from Heaven , and how canst thou pray and not with the spirit ? And here let all people judge and see what thy prayers are , if thou be not in the state of the Pharisees , who deny immediate revelation , and to be one that is blind ; and the praying with the Spirit is witnessed among the Saints . Qu. 8. Shew me by the Scripture when the Apostles went into the World , and gave the people of the World David's Psalms to be sung in meeter , the things that you practise ; answer them by the Scriptures , or the Apostles practise , without consequence or imagination . And in thy answer to this Query thou perverts the Scripture , as in the Acts , as Paul and Silas sung Psalms in the prison with them of the World ; they did not go into the World to give them a psalm to sing , men that were not come to repentance ; for saith David , The dead cannot praise God ; & there I charge thee to be a lyar , that puttest no difference betwixt the Saints singing with grace and understanding , and the World , which have gotten the form , where thou art : The Apostle did not speak to such as were in thy condition , to be filled with the sp●rit , who were not come to repentance ; but he spoke to them who were turned from the World , and such sung praises to God : But for such as thee to go and give to the World Davids psalms in a meeter , and say O Lord I am not puft i● mind , I have no scornful eye , O you prophane ones , and scornful ones ! how can you sing this but lye , who have scornful eyes ? & to sing all your bones quake , and you tremble , and you water your bed with your tears , and you lie roaring all the night and day , when as you scorn Quakers , and hate them , and speak all manner of evil of them , how can you speak this but lye ? But Davids condition and the Saints , is witnessed among them whom the World scornfully call Quakers , which power makes all to tremble , though you scorn it a while , and have gotten the outside , the Letter , David's condition in a form of words , scorning his life , and the power of God where it is made manifest : Take warning all you scoffers and scorners ; what came to be the end of all your Fathers that passed before you , but destruction ? You lofty ones , fear & tremble before the mighty God ; for all your songs must be turned into howling ; but singing with the spirit we own ; the grace which hath appeared to all men , teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts . And here I charge thee again to be blind , that puts no difference betwixt the worlds singing , and the Saints . Qu. 9. Whether a man shall overcome the body of sin while h● is upon the Earth , yea or no ? Pr. And in thy answer to this ninth Query thou sayest , It is not possible to subdue the body of sin altogether , while we are in this world ; and thy comparison is , A tree while there is life in it , will bring forth fruit . Rep. Here I charge thee in the presence of the living God , to be the corrupt tree , for by thy fruit thou art known ; for a good Tree cannot bring forth evil fruit : and here thou art proved to be tha● corrupt tree , who confesseth you do not attain to the same knowledge and understanding the Apostles did , as thou speakest in thy Book , whose harvest is ripe , and now is reaping down . Pr. And whereas thou sayest , they shall not overcome the body of sin while in this world . Rep. And here I charge thee again ; for say the Saints , As he is , so are we in this present world ; and thou sayest , not ; there is the lying spirit ; and the Apostles said , they had put off the body of sin , and thou sayest it is not possible ; and there thy spirit is found contrary to the Scripture ; and the Apostle saith in Rom. 6. they were made free from sin ; and thou sayest not , it cannot be possible ; and here thy spirit is tryed . Let all the children of the light judge thee , and that thou speakest , to be contrary to the Apostles words in the Romans ; and all you that cannot witness these things , that the body of sin is not put off , wait upon God through Christ for it . Qu. 10. Whether the curse be not upon him that preacheth another Gospel then Christ and the Apostles preached , yea or no ? Pr. And in thy answer to this Query thou speakest of receiving the Gospel from Christ and the Apostles . Rep. In this I charge thee to be a lyar , as I said to thee before , who deniest immediate Revelation from Heaven ; how canst thou be a Preacher of the gospel , and deny revelatio● ? What a gros● darkness are people in that believe thee ? For under the curse and wo thou art , that the Scripture speaks of ; and he that hath received the end of his prophesie , is made from the curse ; but this is without thy understanding and knowledge : Thou confessest in thy answer to the first query , you preach the same gospel , but do not attain the same knowledge and understanding . Let all people see who are in the Light , if it be not the same knowledge and understanding , it is not the same Gospel , but another , and there the curse is upon thee . Qu. 11. Whether any natural man can preach the Gospel , yea or no ? Pr. In thy answer to this eleventh query , thou speakest of understanding , and of studying , and of the Gospel , and of a natural man ; and sayest he cannot preach the Gospel ; and thou saist , Your understanding & knowledg is not the same as the Apostles was . Rep. Here let all who are in the Light , see if it be not natural then , and if thou be not him that studies a divination of thy own brain , and instead of the blessing , the curse of God comes upon it ; for how many are there that were Priests as you are , that now cry against you , which are come out of your generation , and see the curse of God upon all your practises . Pr. And thou sayest , The flesh which is quickened with the Spirit of Life , brings forth some kind of fleshly fruit or other . Rep. Here thou hast shewed thy self to be death indeed ; doth the spirit cause fruits of the flesh ? Or are the fruits of the spirit the fruits of the flesh ? O thou lyar and high blasphemer ! which thou sayest is clear from manifold texts of Scripture ; all the Scriptures will witness thee to be a lyar ; and these Scriptutes thou bringest to maintain the spirit of life to bring forth some kind of fleshly fruits , and the fruits of the spirit to be the fruits of the flesh . Here all who are in the spirit will judge thee to be a blasphemer of the holy Spirit of God , for the Spirit brings forth no fruits of the flesh . Pr. And thou sayest in thy answer to the first query , you do not go to Oxford and Cambridge to learn the Gospel you preach , but to learn the knowledge of Tongues and Languages , Arts and Sciences . Rep. O for shame stop thy mouth , here thou hast shamed thy self , and all your schools , with an external means to open the Gospel : People are blind indeed that do follow thee ; but thy bottle is open , and what is within , pours out ; and the Fountain runs , and thy external stuff pours out , which hath poisoned many people , which thou sayest thou shouldest open the Gospel withall : all that have the least convincement , may see thee to be a seducer ; for what is external , is natural ; and what is natural , knows not the things of God ; but the Lord be praised , thou hast declared thy self abroad . Qu. 12. Whether any Ministers of God were made Ministers by the wil of man , yea or no ? Shew it me by the Scripture . Pr. And in thy answer to this Query thou sayest , There is 〈◊〉 Minister of God made by the will of man onely , but by man in subordination . Rep. Here thou crossest the Scripture : Paul an Apostle , not of man , nor by man : And here the lying spirit hath shewed it self indeed . Pr. And thou sayest , There is no such hope of any such calling as was in the time of the Apostles . Rep. And here thou hast cast thy self and thy fellow● , and all thy study to be without the Doctrine and Life of the Apostles ▪ for thou concludest there is no such calling , yet thou talkest of laying on hands ; there thou and you are making likenesses , which is forbidden , and to be confounded ; and so we conclude , and all the children of Light shall judge , that your Hope , and your Calling , and your Ministry made by the will of man , and not only by God , to be without God , and conarary to the Apostles . Qu. 13. Shew me by the Scripture , whether a man shall grow up to that condition that he need no man to teach him but the Lord , or no ? Pr. We must not look for any immediate , extraordinary , miraculous teaching by revelation from the Lord , and yet all men are taught of God too . Rep. What confused stuff is this , and blasphemy , that comes out of thy bottle ? Thou wouldest make God not an immediate ; doth not God teach immediate ? Here thou shewest that thou dost not know the living God ; for the teaching of God is immediate in the least degree . Pr. None aims to such a perfection of knowledge in his gifts , as not to need teaching . Rep. Here I charge thee to be a Lyar , who speaks contrary to the Scripture ; and here I charge thee in the presence of the living God , to be a slanderer , who speaks of being taught of the Lord Jesus Christ outwardly , by the spirit ; what confused stuff is this ? and here again I charge thee to be a lyar ; for the words of our Lord Jesus Christ are spirit and life ; but such as thou who lookest upon the outward thing , cannot receive his words , though you have the letter of the Gospel , as they had the letter of the Law. Quest. 14. Whether they be not Antichrists , and disobey Christ , that have the chief places in the assembli●● , stand praying in the synagogues , which Christ did forbid his disciples to act such things , and cried wo against those that did act them ? In thy answer to this querie , thou ramblest up and down with many words to justifie that which Christ cried wo against , to justifie the chiefest place in the Assemblies , and to be called of men Master ; and for standing praying in the Synagogues , which Christ pronounced wo against , and so let all the people see if thou and you be not such as are called of men Masters , and stand praying in the Synagogues , which the wo was and is upon , Mat. 23. and there is neither shelter nor hole for thee to hide thy self , for them that walk in the truth will find thee out , and praised be the Lord God of heaven and earth , who hath given us a spirit of discerning , and we are able to judge you who live in deceit ; for the Apostle prophesied with the spirit of the Lord that such should come , and we see with the same spirit you are come , and with the same spirit you are judged . Quest. 15. Whether they be not Antichrists and of the Devil , and no Ministers of Christ , which do not abide in the Doctrine of Christ ? Pr. They that swerve from the Doctrine of Christ , are of the spirit of Antichrist . Rep. There thou art , this is thy own condition , who deniest immediate revelation ; and thou that deniest immediate revelation , deniest Christ ( for Paul said , the Son was revealed in him ) and so all that thou speakest is with the lying spirit in the wicked generation ; and whereas thou slanderest and sayest we rail , that is false ; And again thou speakest of love , because the letter declares it ; but the love of God who dwells in it , to such thou art an enemy , and as touching using plainness of speech to people , because we do not flatter or use enticing words of mens wisdom , which thou dost , so thou hast cleared thy self from the children of God , and to be in the generation of them that swerve from the doctrine of Christ , who seekest to justifie that which he cried wo against , a● Mat. 23. And whereas thou accusest us for railing upon people , thou art a liar ; for love useth plainness of speech , and love and charity is out of deceit ; if we should flatter , we should hold it up , and should be pleading for thy generation , who talks of God , and confesses that you have not the same knowledge and understanding that the Apostles had . Therefore how can you know God then ? And whereas thou speakest of trying the spirits , the fruits of it is love ; here with the spirit of love is thy generation tried ; for when the servants of the Lord have been moved to come into your Synagogues , some have been stockt , and wounded , and imprisoned and hailed out of your synagogues . And is this the fruits of your spirit ? Qu. 16. Whether they be not seducers that draw people from the anointing which is in them , and tell them they must be taught of a man , whereas the anointing teaches them , they need no man teach them but as the anointing teacheth them , and the promise is to him that doth abide in it eternally ? Pr. Many false Prophets are gone forth . Rep. Here thou hast proved thy self to be a false Prophet , who denies immediate revelation ; for whom the Lord sent forth , he spoke to them immediately , which thou deniest , and there thou art one of the false Prophets which thou speakest of , and knows nothing of the anointing , who deceives the simple and ignorant ; the world may wonder after such ; but who are in the light , and receive any thing immediate , will see thee in the dark , to be a deceiver ; for none in thy generation can witness , that you need no man teach you but the anointing ; for who doth , are come out from your teaching and you both . And as touching Sects , them we deny , as thou speakest in thy answer to the fifteenth Querie : therefore do we see thee , with that which is no Sect , to be colouring and deluding people , telling them thy error is truth , who quotes and misappliest the Scripture to maintain thy falshood . Pr. The flesh is quickned with the spirit of life , to bring forth some kind of fleshly fruits , 1 King. 8.46 . Joh. 14.4 . Prov. 20.9 . 1 Joh. 1.8 , 10 Eccles. 7.22 . Rep. Here I charge thee ( to be a lyar , and a blasphemer ) in the presence of the l●ving God ; let all people read these Scriptures and see if there be any such thing in them , and whether thou hast not misapplied th●se scriptures , when the spirit saith , It c●ucifieth the deeds of the flesh ; and walking in the spirit , the lusts of the flesh i● not fulfilled ; and here I charge thee to be a lyar , and of the Devil , who was a lyar from the beginning , and in his generation thou art . Qu. 17. Whether they do not bewitch the people , who withdraw them from the spirit within , to observe the ordinances of the world , and traditions of men without , as the Galatians were bewitched ? Gal. 3.1 . Pr. I must tell you that there is not onely a holy and good spirit within , and that in too few ; but there is also an evil and seducing spirit within , and that in too many ; even the spirit that doth bewitch men , and draw them aside from the doctrines and commands of the spirit of truth , and to strive by all means to draw the people off from giving heed to seducing spirits ; it is not to observe the ordinances of the world , and traditions of men , as you pervert the Text , but to obey the command of Gods true spirit , who foretelling of false Prophets , and false Spirits , often in the word commands , exhorts , and admonishes to beware of such , not to give heed to such , and not to believe every spirit , but to trie them . Rep. Here in this answer ( thy spirit is tried ) which I have given to all people to read with a single eye , that all may see what confusion here is in it . First thou sayest that the seducing spirit draws from the seducing spirit , and in the seducing spirit thou art , and from the spirit of life , with the spirit of life thou art judged to be out of the doctrine of Christ , nor is not guided by the holy spirit . Qu. 18. Whether they be not seducers , which tell people these are the ordinances of God , which God never commanded ; as sprinkling Infants , telling people of a sacrament , which there is no scripture for , and draw them from the spirit within , to follow your imaginations and inventions ? Pr. But for sprinkling Infants , I have already given you the grounds of it out of Scripture . Rep. Here again I charge thee in the presence of the living God to be a lyar ; the●e is not such a word in the scripture to bear it out , nor a word of a sacrament , which there is no scripture for ; let all read the scripture throughout , and see if they can find such a word in the scripture ; so let all people judge thee to be a lyar , and a seducer , and in the Devils invention , which calls that an ordinance of God , which is invention and imagination . Pr. We are not blind-folded to follow the dictates of the spirit within . Rep. Here I charge thee in the presence of the Lord to be in the flesh , and to follow the flesh ; for who are led by the spirit of God , are the sons of God ; and thou that dost not follow the dictates of the spirit , thou dost not follow the commands of God : and what hast thou to do to talk of clearing it by the Scripture , when there is no Scripture for it , and when the Scripture witnesses against the works of the flesh , which thy spirit stirs up ? Que. 19. Whether you have the same spirit which was in Christ , the Apostles and Prophets , which gave forth the scripture , seeing you act contrary to the scriptures , and follow your own inventions and traditions , and so err from them ? Pr. Our Ministerial actions are agreeable to the Scripture . Rep. Here I charge thee to be a liar ; for in thy answer to the former Querie thou sayest , you do not follow the dictates of the spirit within , and art holding up sprinkling infants , which there is no scripture for , and so walk contrary to the scripture , and to them that were led by the spirit , which gave them forth . Que. 20. Whether ever Christ and his Apostles did first baptize , and then preach faith and repentance twenty or thirty years afterwards ? Pr. Christ himself was not capable of faith and repentance . Rep. Here I charge thee to be a liar and a slanderer , for he was capable of faith and repentance , and the baptism which the Apostles baptised withal ; what hast thou to do with it , who art holding up sprinkling infants , which there is no example for in the scriptures , nor in all the Apostles practice ? Therefore silence flesh , for thou knowest nothing of the wisdom of God which the Apostle speaks of , but art in the state of Simon Magus , who art buying and selling the letter ; worse then he : for he would have bought the spirit which the Apostles denied ; so thou art denied with the same spirit ; but the Saints baptism we own , and the believers , and the promises which is to the seed , thou hast cleared thy self from , who saist Christ was not capable of faith ; how could he be above it , and not capable of it ? and the life that I live , is by faith of the Son of God , ●●ith the Apostle ; which thou hast cleared thy self from . Que. 21. Whether ever Christ and his Apostles received 100. or 200. pounds a year for preaching the Gospel ? Pr. Many of the Apostles converts sold their estates , and brought it and laid it down at the Apostles feet . Rep. Here I challenge all the Oxford and Cambridge Teachers in England ; how many of their Converts have sold their estates , and laid it down at your feet ; but you Teachers and they are so earthly minded , you are fit to sue them at the law , and imprison them , ( as Lancaster and Kendal Goals may witness , where many suffer now because they will not pay tithes ) and so you shew you preach another Gospel ; so let Christ and the Apostles judge you all to be without their doctrine , and your converts , as thou callest them , to be without the Apostles and Christ ; let their example judge you all , and so you shew that you never sowed spiritual things , but only as a custom and a cloak thou bringest these words , for the Apostle did reap carnal things , where he sowed spiritual things . Que. 22. What scripture is there to limit God to a place , calling it a Church , when as the Church is in God ? 1 Thess. 1.1 . Pr. You cry down all distinctions , as savouring of humane ●earning , whereby the naked truth might be clearly and distinctly seen , a● it is in it self . Rep. Here let all people take notice , whether humane learning can open the naked truth ; Here thou wouldest make people believe that humane learning was before the naked truth ; and again , let all people take notice , and see , if the meeting in a steeple-house in England be a Church , when so many hath been moved of the Lord to come into meeting places among them , and something hath been revealed to them , and they have spoken ; and he that was the pretended Teacher which was in the chiefest place in the assemblie , hath cried out , they disturb me ; and then they have hailed them out to the stocks , or prison , and knockt them , or bruised them , and may be some have lain a quarter of a year in prison , or more . Now let all people take notice , which have a love to God , whether this be the Church which is the pillar and ground of truth , or the cage of unclean birds which the Scripture speaks of , when as the Scripture saith , If any thing be revealed to him that stands by , let the first hold his peace : and the Church of God we own ; but all such Churches as are fighters , and which do imprison them who are moved of the Lord to come to speak to them , such Churches we deny . And whereas thou slanderest us , that we cry against the Ministers , all such Ministers are to be cried against , for they are contrary to the scripture . Qu. 23. What scripture is there to have a Clerk say Amen , and to have groats apiece of the World for his trade ? Pr. And for the groat he receives yearly of some persons in the world , I conceive it is not so much for saying Amen , but he hath other offices . Rep. Here thou goest about to justifie the Clerk and his groat , and the custom of saying Amen , which the Apostles practised no such thing , neither had they any Clerk to say Amen , which had a groat for his labour ; and let all the practice of the Apostles judge thee , who saist that the Clerk hath other offices then saying Amen , that is , may be to ring the bell to gather carnal people together to hear such a blind guide as thou art , and for laying you a cushion that you may lie soft , or opening the book , or giving forth the Psalms , which all this there is no example for , that the Apostles had any such thing ; but it is that you false Prophets might utter forth your folly ; for to the children of light you are discovered , and seen to be without the Doctrine of Christ and the Apostles , and all the scripture shall judge you ; and in thy answer thou dost conceive there thou hast brought thy self under that state which must be scattered ; for the Lord will scatter the proud in their vain imaginations and conceivings , and let the Prophets words judge thee . Qu. 24. What Scripture is there , for taking money for burying the dead , or to have ten or twelve shillings for preaching a Funeral Sermon , or to take money for marrying man or woman ? Pr. For our pains in labouring in the word and doctrine , the Apostle gives that general rule , the labourer is worthy of his hire . And what their wages is , is not of our choosing ; but partly the liberality of founders , and benefactors , partly custom among all people , in all Christian Countries hath setled it . Rep. Here thou usest the Apostles words , which , as I have shewed thee before , thou art cleared from his life ; O thou blind guide , whose mind is in the earth , who art in the customes , and art one of them that doth hold them up , which all the Ministers of Christ are ashamed on thee , and all thy generation ; who art without the , life that gave forth the Scriptures , who art one of them that goes in the way of Balaam , who durst not take the gift though he loved it ; and as for the Apostles condition , I charge thee and command thee to be silent , and let it alone , who denies immediate revelation from heaven ; therefore all that thou speakest is from the earth and below : and the word thou knowest not , which was in the beginning , Joh. 1.1 . when the letter was not , and therefore in it thou canst not learn ; and the Christians that are baptised into Christ , are redeemed out of Countries , where yet thou art , with thy customes and ways of the Nation , as thou dost confess , which Christ comes to redeem from : and thou who receivest Balaams wages , art spuing forth thy venome against the righteous seed , where it is rising . Qu. 25. When did any that was sent of Jesus Christ to preach the Gospel , sue men at the Law ? Pr. Many differences may arise , which cannot well be decided without suit at Law. Rep. In thy answer to this Querie thou dost allow of going to Law , which the Apostle did not , as in the Corinthians , and he was a Minister of Christ : and here thou shewest thou art none ; for thou allowest that he did not ; and who are come to the doctrine of Christ , which is yea and nay , there is no difference , they need no going to Law , there is no contention : and many differences are in thy generation , which is without Christ and his doctrine , which many of you professed Ministers sue men at the Law , which the Apostle forbad ; and here openly I charge you all in the presence of the living God , to be no Minister of Christ , but are raced from the doctrine of Christ and the Apostles : and thou writest a Scripture in Act. 19.38 . as concerning the rude multitude that was stirred up when truth was spoken , these were they which were not brought into the truth , and there thou art among such a company ; let all the people see how Act. 19. will justifie thee for going to Law , who professeth thy self to be a Minister of Jesus Christ , which the Ministers of Christ denied : and here I charge thee again to be a perverter of the scripture , and void of the knowledge of Christ , and the life of the Apostles , and out of their doctrine ; and do not call this railing , which is plainness of speech , and love to thy soul. Pr. And you rail very highly in scripture terms too , whereby you take the garments of Gods holy Spirit , and put them upon the Devils shoulders . Rep. Here thou dost accuse us for railing speeches , and as we told thee before , that we deny ; and here thou callest thy self a Devil ; for of him thou art with thy pretences , therefore wo is thy portion : and whereas thou sayest we revile and accuse the brethren , this is another of thy slanders : we bid thee answer the queries , and thou callest them scrupulous ; to thee they are so : and again thou sayest we misapply the scripture , that is false ; and the Lord Jesus Christ thou knowest not , who deniest immediate revelation ; and what hast thou to do to talk of him , and as throwing the woes which the Scripture speaks of , which is against the decei●s which thou livest in , they are thy portion , thou canst not escape them . If we should not give thee thy due and portion , we should flatter thee , and it would not be love : and why dost thou talk of understanding and bid us weigh and consider ? we have considered thy way , and do know it , and God hath given us an understanding in all things . Pr. Hebrew and Greek we do truly call the Original . Rep : Here I charge thee that thou hast no more original then Pilate thy father had ; Pilate had Hebrew and Greek , which crucified Christ , which was the Original : and here I charge thee in the presence of the living God to be a lyar ; for the word was in the beginning before any tongue was , and your Hebrew and Greek is natural ; and the natural man knows not the things of God , and the world by wisdom knows not God. Pilate was a worldly man , and he had this original , and the wisdome of the world ; and there thou art , and there the curse is upon thee : so here thou preachest another original then the Apostles did ; they preached Christ the fountain , and thou preachest Hebrew and Greek , that is thy original ; and thy father Pilate had that original , which crucified Christ , and set it over him , and the scripture came not by the will of man. Therefore it is not the knowing of it by Hebrew and Greek , but by the spirit that gave it forth ; therefore all people take warning , and cease from such deceivers , and take heed to the light in your conscience , which is the light of Christ , to guide your minds up to God the Father of light , and be not deceived , nor wander not up and down after such , who know not the truth , but put Hebrew and Greek for the original , which Pilate had , which crucified Christ Jesus , as you may read in Luke 23. All people may see thou art brought no further yet then thy father Pilate ; so all thy prayers we deny ; for there is nothing of truth born up in thy understanding , who art led with a seducing spirit into delusions , who saist , the spiri● of life stirs up the flesh to bring forth fruits ; and thou that art in the flesh , canst not please God : And there thy spirit is tryed to be the spirit of error . And a great deal of such stuff thou hast in thy answers to the queries , which is not worth mentioning : And this thou hast written to publish thy self , that them that have a love to Christ , their hearts may be turned from thee to God , to see how thou hast uttered forth thy solly , though with many fair glosses thou and such as thou art deceive the simple . But all who are in the light , do see thee , and comprehend thee . Something in Reply to the Epistle thou wrotest to the Lady BINDLOSSE . TO her thou speakest of the doctrine , and spirit , and the holy Ghost . Here I charge thee to be a lyar , who knows nothing of them , who deniest immediate revelation ; for thou who deniest that , deniest the Father and the Son , as in Matth. 11.27 . Wherein goest thou about to exhort others , who art in the condition thy self , but art as Martha , that would be serving ? If she do but take heed to the light which Christ hath enlightened her withall , she will quickly see thy folly ; for the light which Christ hath enlightened her withall , shall be her condemnation if she hate it ; and if she love it , it will guide her into the way of righteousness up to Christ : And there O woman is thy teacher , and his condemnation . And the Work which is brought forth in the North , doth t●rment thee R. Sherlock ; and such as the Lord doth move to exhort or to speak , such thou slanderest , and dost accuse as tempting ; for thy slanders and reproaches , the wo wil turn upon thee from God , who is the Justifier of his children ; and with such Priests as thou art , the righteous seed was ever hated , as you may read throught the Scriptures . If she that thou callest a Lady , be grounded upon thy doctrine , & be a member with thee of thy body , let her read thy answers to the queries , & the replies to them ; to the light in her I speak , which is of Christ , which will witness me , and let her see thee ; and if her mind be guided by it , it will condemn all her former practises of worship , and let her see thy delusions . And again , thou art flattering the Lady , and tells her of a discourse of the Spirit ; and these are thy unsavoury words , who art discoursing of the Spirit , but deniest it ; for thou that deniest immediate Revelation , denies the Spirit : In the Corinthians the Apostle said , things were revealed to him by the spirit ; and all thy doctrines to be denied , and all that thou speakest , and thou art seen to be one of the evil beasts and slow-bellies , whose mouth must be stopt : And what dost thou tell her of growing up in the knowledge of God , and stop the way for her to pass , who deniest immediate revelation which the Apostle exhorted to ? And the Saints were to have the loins of their minds girded up , as in 1 Pet. 1.13 . And what hast thou to do to talk of Heaven or happiness , who art a Beast in thy colours ? And so this is the intent that I have written this Reply to the Epistle which thou wrote to her thou callest Lady , that she might with the Light of Christ in her , see thy folly , for to that I speak which is the Light of Christ , which if she hate it , it will be her eternal condemnation . Something in Reply to thy Introduction . Pr. NO age hath brought forth more pretenders to the Spirit of God than this wherein we live . Rep. Let all people take notice , if thou be not he that pretends the Spirit , who hath not the same understanding and knowledge that the Apostles had ; and there thou art in the pretence , who art blind , and thy worship as thou callest it , is , thou dost not know what , worse than it was at Samaria , who art in the pride of heart : And as thou sayest , the Devil hath sown his crop , and reapt his harvest ; and there thou art one of his servants , sowing his seed , and amongst the delusions , as thou calst them , for that is in thy generation , which comes out of thy own bottle , which now flows out ; what is within , issues forth ; this is thy own condition , who seducest the people . The fire is kindling , and the tares are burning , which makes you wicked ones to cry out . And so all Impostors and Blasphemers are in thy generation , and you are ignorantly worshipping , and your gross Idolatry which thou speakest of , is your own , and thou art a Murderer , and understandest not what thou speakest of them , and God thou knowest not , who deniest immediate revelation from Heaven ; but onely what thou knowest , thou knowest naturally , as a bruit Beast which Jude speaks of . And a great deal of stuff thou hast in this Introduction , which is not worth mentioning . If the Reader doth but read with a single eye , he may see all thy confused stuff which is not worth naming . And a great deal of stuff thou hast written in discourse of the Spirit , and the Holy Ghost , which thou knowest not what thou speakest of ; and of the Trinity , which there is no Scripture for . A Reply to an Epistle that thou wrotest to him whom thou callest Sir Robert Bindlosse . THe Queries being sent to his house from Rich. Hubberthorn , being his desire that they should be made publike ; and we do praise the Lord , that deceit is brought to light . And thou saist , Perhaps some satisfaction might be given to those seduced , wavering souls amongst you . Truly I do believe they will , and see your folly ; that under his Name whom thou callest Sir Robert Bindlosse , under his name and patronage they may appear as a cover to veil their imperfections . Therefore R. B. to thee I say , Be wise , and fear the Lord , and run not on in the broad way , with such a one who doth confess in his answer to the first query , that he doth not attain the same knowledge and understanding of the Gospel as the Apostles attained . Therefore thou R. Sherlock , thy knowledge is brutish , and thy understanding sottish , as the Scripture saith ; for none knows the Apostles condition and knowledge , but with the same understanding ; and in this thou deniest it , and thou art in another knowledge and understanding , and art in another doctrine , and the true Gospel thou dost not know , and thou art to be held accursed , as the Scripture saith , Gal. 1. And so here thou hast given satisfaction to many that stood in doubt , though to all the children of light thou wast known , and all things shall work together for good to them that love God , Rom. 8. therefore R.B. take heed what thou sets forth under thy Name , and Fathers ; for if thou see a thief , and consent with him , thou art guilty . And R. Sherlock , the Queries that were sent to thee , thou callest them scrupulous ; and the Letter which was sent to thee , as a Libel : Why dost thou slander the innocent and simplicity ? but of thy generation we look for no other , whose mouth is ful of slanders . Thou slanderer , in thy Epistle to the Lady , thou slanderest privily , under a colour , who flatters her ; where thou art telling her of love , & stirs her up to envy , as in p. 46. and incensing her , and wouldst stir her up against them whom thou callest Quakers ; so thou might'st have as well have incensed her against Moses who was a Judge over all Israel , & quaked ; and David who was a King , quaked ; so all that are vertuous , will own us who deny opinions , for them we deny ; and there thou art , who livest in opinions ; and as thou speakest of some to strike at the root of many infections and errors which are overspread amongst you ; the Lord Jesus Christ hath raised up a Light in his children , that they are striking at your root , and laying open the deceits , and bringing forth his own Work to his own praise : And thou sayest , All men do worship God and Christ with one heart , and one mouth , and after one manner , is not onely decryed , but also dismist our congregations ; and since the pale of Ecclesiastical Discipline is pulled down , by whose coercive Laws all men were kept within the limit of the true Faith. Here I charge thee to be a lyar : Was the true Faith , and the Worship of God , maintained by an outward Law ? Thou Traytor , have they pluckt down the true Faith and the Woship of God ? or your old Ceremonies ? Thou seducer , how art thou tormented by that which hath pluckt down the traditions ! Tremble , for the hand and sword of the Lord is against thee , as it was against them ; thou dissembler and envious one , the Law was not made for the Church , which is the pillar and ground of truth , which worships God in the spirit ; but for such envious persons as thou art , who hast cleared thy Church & Worship here , from the true Church and Worship of God , to the view of all honest hearts , and thou art tormented , because the freedom is given for the liberty of tender consciences , to worship God his own way , even in spirit and in truth , as in John 4.23 , 24 And thou sayest , Since under the name and priviledge of liberty of conscience licentiousness of opinion hath got footing : And this thou seems to father upon the Magistrates . We who are in the Light of Christ Jesus , which doth exercise our consciences towards God and man , all opinion● & licentiousness we deny ; therefore thy mouth must be stopt , O sl●nderer , which soweth dissention ; for since the Lord hath opened the Magistrates understanding with the Light of Christ in them , the same light doth give freedom to the light in others consciences , which worketh into tenderness of conscience , & teacheth to exercise a good conscience towards God & man ; & such Magistrates do not make a Law over the consciences of men , which thou seducer & brutish fellow wouldst have a law upon ; but the law is against such as thou art ; and so thou hast shewed thy self to be in the frantick state , & heresie which thou talks on , and many such speeches as thou hast in thy Epistle to Sir R. Bindloss , as thou callest him . And whereas thou speakest of your church and hope , your hope will perish , & your church , and all who are in the Light , will be ashamed of your church . And thou art he who art of the Devil , who dost promote lies and untruths , which is of thy Father the Devil , Joh. 8.4 . but God is coming with his mighty power to chain thee up , thy Father the Devil , the old Dragon , who is the Father of lyes , and thou art one of his servants who blindeth the understandings of the people who are in the unbelief , and seeks to poison their affections with vanities and lying slanders . And in thy conclusion thou wouldst not have him to perish with the blind and giddy ; but if he follow such as thou art , he doth follow both , and in the ditch both will perish together . And thou speaks to him of walking in the paths of the just and righteous ; and such thou privily slanderest , and their way hatest thou , who walkest in the steps of the wicked , and with those that forget God ; and thou must be cut down with the sword of the Almighty God ; To that in thy Conscience I speak , when thou art in the terror , remember me , for that in thy conscience wil condemn thee , and witness me ▪ And Friend , to the light in thy conscience I speak , under whose Name this Book goes ; there is thy Teacher , if thou lovest it , which is the Light of Christ ; if thou lovest it , it will teach thee as thou goes● up and down , and shew thee the way of the just ; for it is just , it will condemn thee if thou hate it . And when the Book of Conscience is opened , thou shalt witness what I speak , that it's truth to thy soul. Pr. And whereas thou sayest , You do neither pretend to any such sublime and eminent gifts , neither do you , nor ought you to depend upon any such immediate revelation , but do use such means and helps which God in all ages hath afforded to people , viz. by study and industry in the Schools of the Prophets . Schools ( thou sayest ) they had at Bethel , 2 King. 1 , 3 , 5. And Elisha 's Colledge was so full , that they enlarged it , 2 King. 6.1 . 1 Sam. 14 , 20. and upon the Hill of God , 2 Sam , 10.5 , 10. Rep. Here let all these Scriptures witness against thee , that thou art no true Prophet , no Minister of Christ , who witnessed the end of the Prophets , and were all taught of God , which thou deniest , that deniest immediate Revelation from heaven . And here I charge thee in the presence of the living God , to be a lyar and false Prophet , and that thou art guided by the Father of lies . Where thou tells of Elisha's Colledge , and saist that it was so full , that it was enlarged , and bringest in that place of Scripture to colour over thy lyes , 2 King. 6.1 . Let that Scripture be a witness against thee , that thou art● lyar , and a perverter of the Scriptures ; thou full of all subtilties , blush for shame thou lyar ; is there any mention of any Colledge there ? Or is there any mention of the Schools of the Prophets where the Word of God was studied in those places of Scripture before-mentioned , as thou sayest ? Let them witness against thee : All the Prophets were taught of God , and there was no studying for what they spoke at Naioth ; see if they did not receive the Spirit of Prophesie , and spoke by immediate Revelation , which thou denies , & knows not their manner of teaching and learning , 1 Sam. 19 , 20. to the end of the chap. And the Prophesie came not in the old time by the will of man , but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the holy Ghost ; and the Sc●ipture is of no private interpretation , 2 Pet. 1.20 , 21. Here art thou proved a lyar , and a perverter of the Scripture , wresting it to thy own destruction , 2 Pet. 3.16 , Now call not Truth railing , thou dissembler and enemy of all righteousness ; the Scripture turns edge against thee , and witnesses against thy deceit and filthiness , whereby thou seeks to strangle the truth ; but thou art found out to be among the dogs , sorcerers and lyars spoken of in Scripture , and art shut out of the Kingdom of God , and art no Minister of Christ , Rev. 22.15 , 18 , 19. Thou Enemy of God , how darest thou say that the Prophets studied the Word , when no prophesie came by the will of man , but by the will of God ? and no man knoweth the Father , but the Son , neither knoweth any man the Son but the Father , and he to whom is revealed , Ma●th . 11.27 . And here thou deniest both the Father and the Son , and the Prophets and Apostles , that deniest immediate revelation ; for they all bear witness against thee , and such as thou art ; for the Apostle said , Hope to the end , for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ : And all the true Prophets witness that which thou deniest . And here I have proved thee a lyar , a false prophet , and a deceiver , perverting the Scriptures , and they bear witness with me . And thou full of all guile and deceit , the word of the Lord shall rise up in judgement against thee , and such as thou art . Something in reply to thy Discourse of the Spirit , as thou callest it . FRiend , the Spirit of the living God thou hast not , for thou deniest immediate Revelation from Heaven , who art discoursing of the Spirit ; and here thou art made manifest but to be in the pretence of the spirit , and knows nothing that is revealed with the spirit . For thou that deniest immediate revelation from Heaven , deniest the spirit of the living God : The Apostle saith , Eye hath not seen , ear hath not heard , neither hath it entered into the heart of man , the things that God hath prepared for them that love him ; but God hath revealed them to us by his Spirit , 1 Cor. 2 , 9 , 10. And here thou hast denied immediate revelation from Heaven ; hast denied the spirit of God , and manifested thy self to be in the natural state : Therefore I command thee , and charge thee in the presence of the living God to be silent , and to give over receiving of the people . 2. Thou that denies immediate revelation from Heaven , thou denies the grace that was to be brought unto the Saints , whose minds were to be girded up ; which grace was to be brought unto them at the revelation of Jesus Chrisr : And thi● thou hast denied again , as all people may see 1 Pet. 1.13 . and here thou hast denyed Jesus Christ , and his grace , who deniest immediate revelation , and art in the fashion of the world , and a blasphemer . 3. Thou that hast denied immediate revelation from heaven , hast denied the Spirit to pray withal ; and so all thy prayers are hyyocrisie . 4. Thou that hast denied immediate revelation from heaven , hast denied the Son of God ; For none knows the Father but the Son , and he to whom the Son reveals him , Mat. 11.27 . 5 And thou that hast denied immediate and miraculous revelation from Heaven , hast not denied the Son of God onely , but the Father also : And thou that ha●t not the Son of God , hast not life . Pr. The power is originally from God , as the Fountain , but conveyed through the Ministry of man as the conduit , p. 90. Rep. Paul an Apostle , not of man , nor by man , but by the will of God. And here thou art proved to be a seducet , and thy Ministry contrary to his ; here thy spirit is tryed . And thou slanders them who hear the voice of God , and art scorning them , and in a deriding way calls it a deceitful eccho ; but we know that God scorns the scornful , and hath them in derision . Pr. For any man to pretend immediate calling from God , without the Ministry of man , is a new Gospel , distinct from Christ and his Apostles , and such can be no other then ths dictates of seducing spirits , and doctrine of devils , p. 9. Rep. Here I take all the children of Light to record , to prove and try thy Spirit and Gospel to be of man , and whether thy Ministry and Gospel which thou preachest ( which is of man ) be of God : For Paul said , that Gospel which he preached , was not of man. And here again thou art contrary to the Apostle , and thy spirit is tryed to be a seducing spirit , and thy Doctrine to be of the Devil , who deniest immediate revelation . Pr. For thou sayest , That which is immediately from God , and without the Ministry of man , is the doctrine of the Devil , and of the seducing spirits . Rep. Paul said , the Gospel that he preached , he received it not of man , but by the revelation of Jesus Christ , and here thou art contrary to the Apostle , and thy self in the state thou speaks of : And Paul an Apostle not of man , nor by man , but by God the Father : Thou impudent enemy of God and blasphemer , wilt thou say his doctrine was of the Devil , who denied man , as Gal. 1.1 . who said , Paul an Apostle , not of man , nor by man ! Pr. Therefore there is no need of any such qualifications , for the best of us dare not stand to such sublime and eminent gifts of the spirit , or to any immediate and extraordinary spiritual gifts . p. 93 , 94. Rep. Here thou preachest up that which is not qualified ; for we do believe you , that you dare not stand to such eminent gifts of the spirit ; for we have tryed you , and know your spirits ; how can you have the same gifts , who deny the Son of God , and immediate , miraculous revelation , and sayest there is no need of any such qualifications now ? therefore doth all your Teachers shew forth your railing and slanders ; but these things we wave , for God will give you , you lyars , your portion , who hath not the same knowledge and understanding that the Apostles had , and here thou hast shamed thy mother , that is adulterated from the Apostles life . Pr. Our gifts are from the spirit of God , though studied for with these means that are outward and moral , &c. Rep. Here I charge thee to be a Lyar in the presence of God ; the gift of God is a free gift ; it is not studyed for , nor is it gotten by moral means ; and if it were studied for , and found in outward means , then it were not a free gift ; and here thou hast made it manifest , that thou knowest not the gift of God ; for it is not him that wills , nor him that runs , but God that shews mercy . So thou blasphemer , for shame blush . Pr. No man can be wise without the spirit of wisdom , nor knowing without the spirit of knowledge ; so no man can pray as he ought , without the spirit of prayer , p. 71. Rep. In thy answer to the first query thou sayest , you do not attain the same koowledge and understanding of the Gospel as the Apostles did ; then if thou have not the same knowledge and understanding , it is all deceit ; for in thy own words thou sayest , you cannot not pray without the spirit , knowledge and understanding ; and thou sayest , you do not attain the same knowledge and understanding the Apostles had ; then thou hast not the same spirit of love to pray withall ; and thou sayest , you cannot pray without the spirit , yet thou goes and tells people of a Gospel , and hath not the same knowledge and understanding the Apostles had ; therefore thy knowledge is bruitish , Jer. 10.14 . Psal. 92.6 . Psal , ●9 . 8 . Pr. That we may according to the Catholick Faith , worship one God in Trinity . Rep. For these things which thou tells people of , there is no Scripture , as Catholick Faith , and Trinity , and of three persons . Pr. The second kind of the holy Spirits impressions on humane souls , page 78. Rep. There is no Scripture which speaks of humane souls ; for the soul thou knows not , who art a murtherer with thy Deity stuff , who would dit up the way from God ; but praises be to the living God , who hath given his sons and daughters eyes to see thee , and all your Deity stuff which you imitate , who are whoredomed from God ; but the Saints of the most high God do sing ( over it and you ) halelujah to God , who witness their souls redeemed . And there is abundance of stuff in that Book which thou calls the discourse of the Spirit , which is not worth mentioning , and abundance of lyes and slanders ; but them we pass , as knowing the author of lyes from whence they come , is for destruction . And in page 95 thou speaks of Timothy studying for his gift . Did he study for his gift , or for the proving of it , and dividing of the word aright ? but he did not study for it , for the gift of God is a free-gift . And in another place thou speaks of the blessing of God being upon your studies ; but I say , the curse of God is upon your studies , who have not the same knowledge and understanding that the Apostles had , and so preaches another gospel . Pr. And most blasphemously to profess and boast of an equality with God , p. 66. Rep. Thy boasting is excluded without in thy generation , and thou art excluded from the life and mind of the Apostle , who said , Let the same mind be in you , that was also in Christ Jesus , who being in the form of God , thought it no robbery to be equal with God , Phil. 2.5 , 6. and this thou calls blasphemy , and so thou hast shewed what spirit thou art of , contrary to the Apostle . Pr. And for our new sect of Enthusiasts , had they the spirit of God , as they pretend , abiding in them , and speaking in them , &c. Rep. All pretences and sects are denyed , where the Spirit of God dwells , though with thy generation such was ever called so . And that is thy own , who hath made a discourse of the Spirit ; and here thou art clearly from them that the Spirit of God spoke in , and did abide in them ; which Spirit of God did descend into their hearts ; which Spirit God hath given to every one to profit withall ; and the Spirit of the Father speaketh in you , saith Christ , Mat. 10.20 . take no thought : and in many places thou art speaking of a study , and blessing a study ; Here thou art contrary to Christ , who saith , Take no thought ; and art of the Devil . And here I charge thee to be one of them that Jeremy speaks of , who speaks a vain divination of thine own heart . Pr. As here Angels are Spirits , and the souls of men are Spirits , but God is not a Spirit as they are Spirits . pag , 57. Rep. This is confusion ; for Christ said God is a Spirit , and they that worship him , must worship him in spirit ; and there thou art raced out to be without the doctrine of Christ. Pr. 'T is the very ground whereupon this last upstart crew of Quakers build all their resolutions , and strange fanatick opinions , and heresies , even that which they call the light within us , whereunto we must only give ear . pag. 112. Rep. O thou impudent ! God will make the an example , thou lying spirit , Is the Light which Christ hath enlighned every one withall that comes into the world ( a strange fanatick opinion ) which one he loves it , and the other he hates it ; and he that hates it , it is condemnation . Here thou art against Christ and the Apostles ; for the Apostle did exhort the Saints to take heed unto the light within them , untill the day dawn and the day-star arise in their hearts . O thou Lyar ! did the Prophet cal the truel light a deceit of the heart ; or is the light of God a false vision ? Christ Jesus which doth enlighten every one that comes into the world , which is witnessed among the Quakers ; and he that walks in the Light shall have the Light of Life , and thou that hates this light speaks a divination of thy own brain , and a lying imagination : and with this Light of Christ thou shalt be condemned , thou blasphemer , who calls the Light of Christ heresie and fanatick opinions ; but here thou dost but fill up the measure of thy Fathers , who calls this Light which is Christ in us , Heresie , p. 113. To all you Readers of his Book , I speak to the Light of Christ in you , which if you love it , it will bring you to weigh and comprehend his words , and if you walk in it , you shal have the light of life , and you that hate it , it shal be your Condemnation , when the book of Conscience is opened , you shal witness that I speak the truth to every one of your souls . R. Sherlock , thou bids them beware of false Prophets ; and saith the tryal of the spirit is the Word of God. Rep. By the Word of God thou art tryed , who are in the conceivings . Again , thou speakest of the High-Priests and Pharisees that councelled against Christ to put him to Death . Rep. So do you now : where he is made manifest , shevving your selvet to be in the same generation . Pr. It waas this spirrit also that stirred up Demetrius the Silver-smith , with the rest of the Crafts-men , against St. Paul and his companions , because his Profit and gain which he got by making silver shrines for Diana was in danger to be lost ; pag. 116. Rep. The same spirit novv being made manifest , it cryes against your Trades-men , and Crafts-men , and your Diana , and your two great Schools where you learn your trade , which are puddles of darkness ; and the same spirit being stirred up to cry against your profession , it sets you in an uproar novv , as in the Synagogues vve do vvitness . Pr. And the earth opened her mouth and swallowed Corah and all his Company , a fair warning for Lay-persons . pag. 86. Rep. The judgement did not come upon Corah because they vvas Lay-persons , but it vvas for gain-saying the truth as thou doest . For many of them that gave forth the Scripture vvas plain men , Paul a Ten●-m●ker and most of the Apostles Fishermen , Moses a keeper of Sheep ; thou mayest call these Lay-men vvhich gave forth the Scripture , vvho make a trade of their vvords . And here thou hast shevved that thou hast not the knovvledge and understanding vvhich the Apostles had , vvhich thou confessedst thou hadst not ; tberefore thou art as a bruit beast , and there I leave thee to be condemned vvith the light vvhich thou callest Heresie . The Mittimus answered by which R. H , was sent Prisoner to Norwich Castle by Ralph Woolmer Justice of the Peace , October 9 , 1654 WHereas I am committed to Prison by a Mittimus ; under the pretence of the breach of the Law in these things therein expressed and laid to my charge : As first , Openly to declare before all the people , That he that preached , viz. Mr. John Mony was a deluder of the people . I answer , This accusation was false , for that word was not so spoken ; but to the Light of Christ in all your consciences I speak , & declare openly to all people , that he that acts those things which Christ declared against , is no Minister of Christ ; all who are hirelings , as Christ saith , John 10. who seek for their gain from their quarters , as Isaiah saith , Isa. 56.11 . who bear rule by their means , as Jeremiah saith , Jer. 5.31 . and who preach for hire , as Micah saith , Mic. 3.11 . and all who are called of men Master , stand praying in the Synagogues , and have the chiefest places in the Assembly , and lay heavy burthens upon the people , which Christ cryed wo against , Matt. 23. such are no Ministers of Christ who act such things ; for they who are the Ministers of Christ , do abide in the Doctrine of Christ ; to the Light of Christ I speak , that with it John Mony may see himself to be out of the Doctrine of Christ , holding up those things that Christ cryed wo against . Another thing charged against me , is , That the people in a great number gathered together about me , which might have proved of evil consequence , they being the under-sort of people . I answer , Where-ever the gospel was preached , there were gatherings together , and uproars and tumults , as you may read in the Scriptures Acts 19. and the same gospel worketh the same effects now as in did then ; and those whom thou callest the under-sort of people , were all quiet , and were willing to hear the word of the Lord , and did not offer any persecution or violence ; but you who profess your selves to be Saints , have proved your selves to be the undersort of people , as by your consequence , have made it appear by your persecution , by taking me out of the multitude who were willing to hear the Word of Truth , & sent me to Bridewell , and then to prison , for declaring the Word of the Lord freely , as I have received it , and so are persecutors , and not Saints ; for the Saints were ever persecuted , but never did persecute any . Another thing charged against me , is , That being often asked my Name and Countrey , would give no account . I answer , The Lord hath called me out of my own countrey , and from my Fathers House , to declare his Word as I have received it ; and I was freely declaring the Word of the Lord , when opposingly thou camest and asked my Name and Countrey , which when I ceased speaking , I declared it unto thee before I went out of the yard ; and so there is no ground for this accusation but enmity . Another thing charged against me : That being brought before me , he in contempt of Magistracy ( as I apprehended ) would not once move his hat off his head . I answer , O! for shame never profess to be a Magistrate , and make such apprehendings the ground of thy Law , as to call this contempt of Magistracy not to put off the hat ! Where was ever such a thing mentioned in all the Scriptures , by any who were set to rule over the people , to execute the Law of God upon offendors ? When did Moses ( who was a Law-giver and a Judge over all Israel ) command any such thing of any that came before him , to put off his hat ? or ever in all his Writings make mention of such a thing as contempt of Magistracy , or imprison any that did not ? But it was the transgression of the Law of God to respect persons ; for he that respects persons , commits sin ; but by your Law , those who cannot respect persons , and so fulfil the Law of God , you say they contemn Magistracy , and are not to subject to Authority . Oh! for shame never make Laws upon such outward traditions ; for here you go from the life of God , and from the law of God , and from the practice of all the holy men of God which the Scripture speaks of : When did ever Joshua or Japhat ( when the people came before them ) command any such thing , or mention it , to put off their hats , and prison them if they would not , or tell them they contemned Magistracy ? When did ever Solomon ( who was in the large Wisdom ) command any such thing of the people whom he was over , to put off their hats ; or imprison them if they would not ? Shew me one example amongst all the Heathenish Emperors , Kings , Princes , Dukes , Rulers , or other Officers which the Scripture speaks of , that ever commanded any of their people to put off their hats , and imprison them if they would not ? Did ever Pharoah King of Egypt , whom Moses and Aaron went before , command any such thing , and imprison them if they would not ? Did ever Nebuchadnezzar or Darius command any such thing of any ? Did ever Herod command any such thing , or imprison them that would not ? Did ever Agrippa or Festus command Paul to put off his hat vvhen he came before them ? Here you outscrip all the Heathenish Kings & Rulers that the Scripture speaks off . He contemns Authority vvho is a fighter or quarreller , or drunkard , or lyar , or swearer , and they vvho abuse themselves vvith mankind , but not they vvho declare the Word of the Lord to such , to lead them from all such practises ; but such you account disturbers and contemners of Authority , who stand patiently before you , because they will not put off their hats ; for it is your pride that is disturbed , and not Justice ; for the Law of Justice is vvithout respect of persons , and doth judge thee vvho doth respect persons . Another thing charged against me , is , That I said I dwelt in God , and where the Lord called me . I ansvver , Let shame and terror take hold upon you both Priests & Magistrats , who make a Law in your wils to imprison those vvho come to vvitness they dvvel in God , as the Saints did : Paul said , In him we live , move , and have our being ; and said he had no certain dvvelling-place ; and by this Lavv he vvould be imprisoned , and he vvas persecuted and reviled , and suffered it , 1 Cor. 4. and John said , He that dwells in love , dwells in God , and God in him , 1 Joh. 4.16 . and he that keeps his commandments dwelleth in him , and he in him : And hereby we know that he abideth in us , by the Spirit that he hath given us , 1 John 3.24 . and by this Lavv John should be imprisoned , because he said he dvvelt in God ; and all the Prophets and Apostles did go vvhere the Lord called them . O blush and be ashamed before the Lord to profess Christ and Justice , and make a Lavv to imprison those vvho are obedient to the commands of God , and dwell in God ; that ever such a thing should be acted , or once named in your Courts or Sessions , who profess your selves Christians . The Heathens have so much light as to see your nakedness and folly . The Law was added because of transgression , for the lawless and disob●dient , and not for the righteous who dwel in God , and are obedient to him . Another thing against me , is , Because I would not enter into Recogniz●nce to appear at the next Sessions to answer the premises , being charged in his Highness Name to the Gaol at Norwich . I answer , The Lord God who is above all Names and Highnesses , in his Name and Presence do I speak , & clear my conscience before him and all the World , who hath set me free from being bound to the wil of any man ; for he is com●ng in his mighty power to bring down all Powers , Names , Highnesses and Laws , under which the seed of God suffers . This is the word of the Lord to all you who in your wills make laws , & by them cause to suffer the servants of the living God ; but by his Law which is perfect & changeth not , both you and your Laws are to be condemned . The Discharge . Norf. ss . Whereas I sent you yesterday the body of Richard Hubberthorn , late of Yelland i● Lancashire , by the Constables of W●mondham : Now these are to require you forthwith upon the receit hereof , to set at liberty the said R. Hubberthorn , provided he be charged with nothing else but his Mittimus from me laid to his charge ; and this shall be your warrant for so doing , Octob. 10. 1654. To the Keepers of the Gaol in the County of Norf. in ehe City of Norwich . Ralph Woolme● . I being by the same Law and Power set at liberty , by which I was committed to prison , & under the same hand & seal by which the Keepers of the gaol were charged to keep me , by the same command , & under the same hand & seal are the Keepers of the gaol commanded to set me at liberty ; & by the same power which charged these things against me in the Mittimus , by the same power am I cleared & discharged of them in this Warrant , & nothing else being laid to my charge , I desire to know by what Law I am yet kept prisoner , or vvhat I have to ansvver the next Sessions . This vvas I moved of the Lord to declare and lay open , that all people in the Light vvhich Jesus Christ hath enlightned them vvithall , may see the changeable Lavvs made in the Will of man , vvhich is changeable , being turn'd from that in tht conscience , & from the Lavv of God vvhich is perfect , and changeth not , and by all such Laws as are made in the Wil of man , did ever the servants of the Lord suffer , & do novv ; Let all vvho are lightned by Christ to knovv the perfect Lavv , judge . R.H. Prisoner in Norwich-Castle ▪ A true testimony of the zeal of Oxford-Professors and Vniversity-men , who for zeal persecute the servants of the living God , following the example of their brethren of Cambridge . Also the lewdness of those two great Mothers discovered , who have brought forth so many Children , and never had Husband . From Oxford the 26 day of the fourth Moneth . 1654. A Brief and true testimony to all the people of the unjust and unlawful proceedings of those called Justices in Oxford , against two Northern women , who in obedience to the Lord , came to Oxford upon the 20 of the fourth Moneth , who several days as they were moved of the Lord , passed through the Streets , Colledges , and Steeple-houses , declaring the word of the Lord freely . And upon the 15 day being the first day of the week , were moved to go to a Steeple-house , and when the Priest had done , one of the women began to speak in answer to what was delivered , and in exhortation to the people . Then two of the justices cried out , Take her away , carry her to prison ; and they took them away , and carried them to prison called Buckerdo where onely fellons and persons are committed for murther , and other hainous offences , are and secured . And on the morrow being the second day of the week , some of the Justices asked the Major , whether there was no meeting appointed ; the Major said , No , he knew no business they had that there should be a meeting : the Justice answered , There is two Quakers committed to prison : the Major answered , Let those Justices that committed them , if they have any Law against them , let them act it upon them ; if not set them free : and the said Major said further , That he had nothing to say against them ; but he said , that if they wanted food , money , or raiment , he would take care that they should be supplied . so the Major left them and went about his publick imployment , and would have no more to do in the matter , nor act any thing against them ; but did rather think it convenient to leave it to them , to act according to their wills , and he free from it himself . But upon further consideration , and for the more satisfaction , the Major went up where the Justices were to examine the women ; and that their cruelty might the more be made manifest , the Vice-chancellour of the University was sent for to come up before them , and then they proceeded to examination : and the first Question propounded , was , What her name was , and the place of her abode ? and answer was made to both ; then they asked , What their business was to Oxford ? they answered , They were commanded of the Lord to come thither ; they asked , What to do ? they answered , To declare against sin and ungodliness , which they lived in ; as pride , covetousness , lust , and all uncleanness , self-righteousness and all false worship , which both Priest and people lived in , contrary to the commands of God. Then they asked them , How they knew they were called of God ? they said , They knew the voice of God , and that they were called of God. And this is to be observed as a true testimony of these two servants of the Lord ; that they did neither beg nor steal , neither did they wrong nor violence to any man ; they coveted no mans silver , gold , nor apparel ; but because they obeyed the word of the Lord , and did his work faithfully , speaking the word of the Lord in boldness against the deceits of the Priests and people , in the Streets , in the Market-place , in the Synagogues , and in the Colledges , clearing and discharging their consciences in the Lords work and service , freely administring that which they had freely received from the Lord , of whom they do receive their reward ; for their reward is with them , and the presence of the Lord God doth accompany them ; and for their obedience to the Lord they receive the shame of the world , as ever the servants of the Lord did ; who were mocked , buff●tted , and shamefully used , being tied together at Johns Colledge and pumped , and kicked and buffetted , and thrust into a pool called Giles's pool , so that they went into a remote place to wash the dirt off their cloathes . And here both Magistrates and Schollers , and they who pretend to be Ministers of the Gospel , are the chiefest actors in this persecution , and so do make themselves manifest to be in the same generation of the Scribes and Pharisees , and Hypocrites , who were ever persecutors of the righteous seed , whomever it hath brought forth : and so they fill up the measure of their fathers iniquities . Again , as concerning the Justices being assembled , the Vice-chancellor being the chief actor in this persecution , said , That they blasphemed the name of God , and did abuse the Spirit of God , and dishonour the grace of Christ ; and asked the women , Whether they did read the Scriptures ; they answered , Yea , they did ; then they asked them , Whether they were not to be obedient to the power of the Magistrate ; they answered , They were obedient to the power of God , and to the power as it was of God , their souls were subject unto it for cons●ience sake . Well , said the Vice-chancellor , you prophane the word of God , and I fear you know not God though you so much speak of him . And then they concluded , that there was matter enough for their commitment and punishment , and wished the women to withdraw , consenting that a paper should be drawn up for their being whipped out of the City . And when the paper was drawn up , it was presented to the Major to set his hand to it ; but the said Major refused , and said ; He was not willing to do it ; but one of the Justices said , That it was the privil●●ge of the City , that if any vagrant were taken within the Franchises and liberties of the City , the paper must be drawn up , That I such a one Major , have committed such and such persons , and then it is to be sealed with the Office seal ; but the Major answered , That he would refuse both ; then others said , who were zealous , and thought that they had done God good service , That if he would not , it should be done by them ; and it was agreed upon , that they should be soundly whipped , and that for the present , because of the tumult , be put into the cage . And the next morning their wills was performed , though with much unwillingness in the executioner . Many other particulars might be mentioned of their sufferings , afflictions , and patience under reproachings , revilings , slanders , and false accusations cast upon them , which is the portion of the righteous in the world , as Christ said , Blessed are you when men shall revile you , and persecute and speak all manner of evil against you falsly for my names sake : rejoyce and be exceeding glad , for great is your reward in heaven , for so persecuted they the Prophets that were before you , Mat. 5.11 , 12. and saith Christ , They shall put you out of the synagogues ; yea , the time cometh , that whosoever killeth you , will think that he doth God service , and these r●●●gs will ●hey do unto you , because they know not the Father nor me , Joh. 16.2 , 3 , 4. A●● n●w both sons and daughters of the Lord comes to witness these ●hings fulfilled ; and you Magistrates , Priests , and people do fulfil the Scriptures against the servants of the living God , as you have done against these . And herein is made manifest your tyranny and persecution , the chief Priest being the chief actor in it ; yet there was many in the City , that have so much of the light of Christ made manifest in them , as to acknowledge them to be servants of the living God , and to own them in their sufferings , and to confess the appearance of Christ in them before men , and in love did accompany them out of the City , and did own them in their persecution . And this testimony is true to testifie to all people , and to all the world , the cruelty of unreasonable men , and that the Major had no hand in any of this cruel usage and persecution . The names of the two women who suffered persecution for righteousness sake , is , Elizabeth Heavens , and Elizabeth Fletcher . R.H. Two Letters written by R. H. during his imprisonment in Norwich Castle . From Norwich Castle . TO all my dear friends whom the Lord by his eternal spirit is gathering out of the World into the covenant of Life , to be of one heart and mind , and soul. Wait all in that which is pure and invisible , that the pure teachings of Christ you may know every one in particular which is without form and beauty to the visible , that nothing you may receive but that which speaks from the eternal moving of the living God ; have salt in your selves to savour with all words ; you may discern which is without life and power , and standing single in that which is pure of God , all such deny to be your teachers which have the words of truth , but live not in the life and power of what they say ; so in the power of the living God wait in silence of all flesh , and here comes that which hath been fed to be famisht ; and that which hungers after God , comes to receive living nurture and nourishment from God. So in the invisible comes to feed upon the bread of life which comes from heaven , and the tender plants will come to grow up unto eternal life , and fruit will be brought forth unto God , dwelling in that which is invisible ; and all untimely fruit will wither and fade away ; but keeping low in the light , that in it your minds may be kept , discerning will grow as the light doth arise and spring up in you ; you will discern all airy spirits , who through great swelling words would allure and draw all the minds of those who have escaped the common pollutions of the world , through the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ : so all dear friends , in that which is pure wait , and in it watch against the nature which would keep you in bondage to corruption , and out of the glorious liberty of the sons of God , and from the glory of the first body , and out of the order and course of nature , and out of the Covenant where all things are blessed : now in that which hath convinced you wait , that in it you may see that which is gone out , which is for the sword , which is for the famine ; the consumption determined is to pass through the whole earth , for the earth must be plowed up , and the ground dressed before the Lord can reap his pleasant fruit , which grows upon his own most pure Vine which he himself hath planted . Now there are plants which the Father hath not planted within the light , is seen and discerned from the Fathers plan●s : and here is your teacher the light , which waiting in it , you will come to discern between the clean and unclean ; and here that which is of God you will know , and that which is contrary unto him ; and here is the true discovery , and here is watching over one anothers souls in the light ; for in the light true judgement is given upon the deceit where it is , for in the light it i● seen : Now every one which is enlightned by Christ Jesus walk up to the light which you have received , in obedience to the Lord , that he in you all may be glorified , and you all who are faithful may enter into his joy . So the mighty God of power be with you true and faithful ones , babes and children of the living God , that you be not of them that turn back , but of that which go on to the saving of the soul , and that as faithful witnesses to God , you may stand boldly against all gain-sayers , and against all the powers of darkness , that in the mighty power of God you may dwell , and in it triumph over the World , and all the deceits of it . Your servant in the Lord Richard Hubberthorn Prisoner in Norwich Castle . To my dear Brethren and Sisters whom the Lord is gathering in●o the Covenant of Life . DEar brethren and sisters in my Fathers love I dearly salut● you , in the same love and power which is immortal , b● which we are raised from the dead , in it to keep pure union an● fellowship together , and in it to see one another , and to know on● another , and in it freely to open to one another that which from the secrets of God is made manifest , that ye may all drink togethe● of the pure water of Life which nourisheth the living soul , and so one soul we come all to witness , and one bread which the F●ther freely giveth , that by it his own may be fed , the babes and children begotten by him ; that which is sincere pure and immortal , they feed upon , and they come to know where life is in the presence of the pure living God ; and as into the knowledge of him you come to grow , out of the worlds nature you come to be separated , you come to receive of him the earnest of that inheritance which the obedient and faithful comes to enjoy : walk worthy of that eternal measure which you have received , for freely it is given unto you from the bowels of the love of God ; and it is hid from the world , for the world is not worthy of it , nor of them who in it live ; so as you all abide the pure measure which is from God , you will come to see a clear separation and redemption from that which is mortal and fadeth away , and from that which cumbers your minds , and defiles the temple of the living God ; which temple ye are , as you abide in that which is pure , which doth cleanse and keep pure , and clear the mind and understanding , and the conscience , where the mystery comes to be opened , and all things which hath been hid comes to be made manifest in the light , in soberness and patience all wait upon the living God , that you may know his leadings and workings in every condition , and his power in its several workings , that you may know and discern ; and his voice you may know when it speaks , that so every voice and spirit you may try 〈◊〉 now , and judge , by that which is eternal ; and he●e in your strength you will come to witness , and your growth out of the weakness , and so no more tossed to and fro with windy doctrines , but a leading up into the life you will daily witness , and a passing from all works ; the righteousness which is of faith you will witness wrought and established in you , by the eternal word which is in the heart ; in which if you do abide and continue , ye need not that any man teach you , for from it have you learned where the teacher is , and where your condemnation is , which turns from it to the witness in you . All I speak that these things you may see and know , and read in the light , for from the life and love of God these proceed to nourish the s●me life which in measure is begotten in you ; yea verily , the bowels , the tender bowels of the love of God is opened towards you , that nothing may be hid from you which may add to your growth in the life of God ; as you have been learned and here taught by the pure word of life , which from the father unto your souls hath reached ; so go and approving your measures to the Lord , that all your enemies may be cleared ; so in the pure life of God the fleshly lusts which war again●● the soul , and all the traps and snares you may see , and subtle temptations which draws the simple out of the way , that into the pure wisdom of God you may every one come to grow , and in his will you may all wait for counsel from him , that nothing may lead you but the Lord , and then in all conditions you are led by the Lord ; in them you will find his presence , his power and peace , and joy you will find in your obedience and faithfulness , and herein your strength you will find increased , and power to conquer and reign over that which hath been too strong for you , and led you into captivity ; but if your minds go from that which is pure , then your strength is lost , and you are weak as other men ; therefore in the light dwell , and in the innocency ; then you will be able to contend , and stand for the pure truth of God delivered unto you against all serpents and vipers , and all the enemies of God , and wait all upon God out of your own wills , that the workings of his mighty power you may all know , which secretly worketh to bring forth his own plant , h●s seed , his elect from the ends of the earth , and from the bondage of corruption which the creatures groan under ; but the redemption and deliverance of the creatures is to be waited for , that the glorious liberty may be witnessed which is free from corruption ; and this the daughters and sons of the living God is to wai● for , abiding in the word of his grace ; there is nothing hid whic●●hall not be made manifest , nor nothing promised but shall be fulfilled to the seed , in whom all the promises of God is Yea and Amen for ever . Your dear brother in that which from the world is hid , Richard Hubberthorn , Prisoner in Norwich Castle . Written the 19. day of the second Month , 1655. Some Queries for you to answer who hold forth this testimony to the people , That Christ is a Crea●ure , against those that w●●ness him to be the Son of God by which the World was made ; perfect God and Man , not created but begotten according to the Scriptures . 1. What knowledge of Christ that is without a man , and how may a man do to lay his foundation thereon without having him revealed in spirit within ? seeing that was held forth by some of you . 2. When was that Christ created which you say must as a Creature judge the World ? and if in Maries time , who was judge of the World till then ? or did he judge the World as God till then , and as a Creature ever since ? 3. Whether was not that Christ which you call a Creature , sent out of Heaven from the Father , and did he send a Creature to redeem the Creation , and judge it ? 4. Is there any son of man ( as a Redeemer ) but he that came down from Heaven , who filleth heaven and earth ? and was not he in heaven when he was in the flesh with his Disciples , and do not the Saints partake of his flesh now upon earth ? 5. Whether all they which did see that body which to the world appeared in similitude of sinful flesh , did see the shape , and hear the voice of the Son of God , or know the Man Christ Jesus ? 6. And if Christ was in that body which he appeared to the World before the World was ( as was asserted by Joshua Sprigge ) and he a creature , as you say , and the World made by a creature , whether is not this to make the word of God of none effect ? 7. Was not the person of Christ Jesus before the World was ? his nature and glory the same that is now with the Father in heaven , or in what is it changed , and when had the man Christ Jesus his beginning , if you can declare it ? 8 Did the Son of man take upon him the nature of the first Adam as he is in the fall , when he took part of flesh and blood ? or do any know his nature who are in the fall , and is not the flesh of Christ a mysterie to all mankinde till he be revealed in spirit ? 9 What that eating of the flesh of the Son of Man is , seeing none can have eternal life in them but who eat it ; is the eating of it the eating of a creature ? and doth not all as they eat thereof , become one flesh and spirit with him , in his life and knowledge ? and if you have eat that flesh , & drunk that blood , how is it you have the knowledge of God ( which is life eternal ) yet to seek , seeing he that eats and drinks thereof can never thirst more , but shall have the spring of life within ? or can the eating of that flesh which is of the nature of the first Adam give life eternal ? 10 How is Christ the only begotten Son of God if he be a creature , or how can God beget a creature ? and if the whole person of Christ was not the before the earthly Adam , how was the Creation made by him ? or how can he be of the nature of fallen Adam , and not earthly and defiled ? or can God dwell in that nature , but as it is purified and brought to the beginning , seeing the fulness of the God-head dwelt bodily in him ? and is ●he flesh of Christ heavenly or earthly , or is he Christ without his flesh ? 11 Whose obedience and righteousness , and works , is that which is not Christs ? and how is it that Christ makes any obedience , or righteousness accepted with the Father which is not his own , and of his own working , this being one thing affirmed by you ? 12 How is it that a man can be in the spirit of God , and in the spirit of Satan both at one instant ? and doth not the obeying the one deny the other ? and are not these the two Masters that no man can serve , which you seem to affirm the contrary ? 13 Whether did God create man with any thing of the Devil in him ? and if not , whether any can witness perfect redemption , so long as the Devil hath any thing in them , seeing some of you could not receive this testimony ? Now seeing we did answer many of your queries , and you would answer none to us , so now answer these things in writing , that it may be manifest what testimony it is you bear of Christ Jesus ; for of our testimony of Christ Jesus we are not ashamed before men . A lover of your souls and eternal good , R. H. The innocency of the righteous seen of God , cleared from all slanderous tongues and false accusers . IN answer to a printed paper set forth by Frederick Woodall , wherein he goes about to render the truth of God odious , and by a cloak of maliciousness to cover those lies which he hath formerly published ; but in the light of God , I do him see and comprehend , and in it he is made manifest to all the children of light to be no Minister of Christ ; and to the light of Christ in all consciences I speak , that in it they may read these things which from the light is declared , that so occasion may be cut off from all who seek occasion against the truth ; that so peoples minds may not be incensed against the truth of God by his refuge of lyes set forth in his paper , called Natural and Spiritual light distinguished . But in the light of Christ , which is but one , which is not natural but spiritual , is he seen to be natural , and his distinction to be natural ; and so in the light the natural man with his natural doctrine and natural distinction is denied ; and Christ Jesus we do witness , who is the true light which lighteth every one that cometh into the world , Joh. 1.9 . I am come a light into the world that whosoever believeth in me should not abide in darkness , Joh. 12.46 . and this is the condemnation of the world , that light is come into the world , and men loved darkness rather then light , because their deeds were evil , Joh. 3.19 , 20 , 21. Now all you who are enlightned by Christ Jesus and can read in the light , and with understanding , to you there is no occasion of stumbling ; but all stumbling and the occasion of it , is in them who hates the light and calls it natural , which light is Christ : for him a witness I am against all such who deny Christ to be the true light , which lighteth every one that cometh into the world ; who is of the World called Richard Hubberthorn . NOw as in answer to thee Frederick Wodall , who hath put a stumbling block before the eyes of many , by thy lyes and deceit to keep them from receiving the pure truth of God , which the Lord is now spreading abroad and making manifest to gather to himself his own from the mouths of all false shepherds , that Jesus Christ the true shepherd they may come to witness , who is the true light , and is not natural as thou woulds● make him to be ; nor that light in the conscience is not natural , which Jesus Christ hath enlightned every one withal ; but all who in it dwell shall witness against thee , and thy malicious spirit , who hath uttered forth thy bitterness and venome against those who walk in the light ; and who witness the truth of God in the life and power of it , and against all false accusers . In the beginning of thy Epistle to the Reader thy enmity thou utterest forth against those ●ho for the name of Christ do bear his reproach in the world , in whom the Scripture is fulfilled , which saith , they shall speak all manner of evill of you falsly for my name sake ; and thou art one of them who art speaking evil and encouraging others to speak evil against those , whom thou and the rest of the scorners call Quakers , and calls them a nest of stinging Wasps , and saith that they have leavened a dear brother and sister of thine , and made them Prosylites unto them . I answ . This accusation is returned back again upon thy own head ; for the poison of asps is found under thy tongue , and forth of the venome doth proceed , as all who hath understanding may see and discern , and those whom thou callest thy dear brother and sister are made able in the light to testifie against thee and thy lie , and to witness that they are brought out of the Prosylites condition , and out of the leaven of the false Prophets and false teachers , which they were in so long as they followed thy doctrine ; but now that doctrine they do see which doth leaven and draw peoples minds to the light of Christ within them , and so makes Prosylites and children of the Devil ; but in the light of Christ art thou and all that uphold that doctrine , seen and denied . In the first page of thy paper thou wouldst make people believe that thou makest no defence against my reply to thy answers , and yet in the second page thou repliest against mine , concerning the tenth Querie , and chargest me in reputing thee the author or father of a lie , in returning to thee again thy own words in answer to the tenth Querie which words are these , It is intolerable that Christ should be the Prince of Peace . I answer , Let every one that hath a desire to know whether this be so , read thy own words in thy printed Paper in thy answer to the tenth Querie , in the twelfth page , whether these be not thy own words ; the tenth is intolerable and the rest of thy words which are in answer to that Querie are full of confusion , and all wdo reads them may see it ; so I leave thee to be judged of all , and condemned of all , who in the light of Christ do see thy confusion which proceeds out of thy own mouth . Priest. 'T is a priviledge we have cause to bless God for every day , viz. that unto us are committed the Oracles of God. Answ. Here I charge thee to prove when ever the Oracles of God was committed unto thee , or to the Priests of England : unto the Jews they were committed which was before Christ came in the flesh ; and they who had the oracles of God committed unto them did seek to kill and crucifie the Son of God , as you the Priests of England , who go in the way of Cain , and after the error of Balaam , do now seek to destroy the Son of God , where he is made manifest , and the oracles of God were never committed unto you , nor the ministration of the Gospel ; but in the steps of those you are found , who ever persecuted the righteous seed of God , as you have made it manifest in this generation . And again thou art bringing scriptures to prove the letter to be the word of God : which Scriptures will witness against thee ; for the Scripture saith that God is the Word , Joh. 1.1 . and thou art diminishing from some , and adding to others , and perverting the Scriptures to thy own ends ; thou bringst that scripture in Titus 2.10 , 11 , 12 , 13. and these words thou speakest from them , this is the grace of God bringing salvation ; when the Apostle saith , For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men , teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts we should live soberly , righteously and godly in this present world : and here though thou bringest this scrip●ure in thy paper , yet it thou canst not own , that the grace of God which bringeth salvation to all men , hath appeared , who denies Christ to have enlightened every one that comes into the world . Pr. This Word for the manner of delivery unto us , is called Scripture , and we are commanded to search it , Joh. 4.39 . and laid under the promise of blessing in that way , Psal. 1.2 . Answ. Here thou hast numbred thy self amongst those whom Christ commanded to search the Scriptures , and amongst them shalt thou be numbred , and in that scripture thou mayest read thy condition and the rest of the Priests with thee , as Joh. 5.37.38.39 40. ye have neither heard his voice at any time , nor seen his shape , and ye have not his word abiding in you ; for whom he hath sent ye believe him not , search the scriptures , for in them ye think to have eternal life , and they are they which testifie of me , and ye will not come to me that ye might have life : now all you who are in the same condition , the same command is unto you . But there is no promise of blessing promised unto you in that way , no more then was to them which was so commanded , but never prove your selves Ministers of Christ , for they were no Ministers of Christ that this was spoken unto , nor Saints , but such as received honour one of another as you do who are in that generation . And they were such as did not believe that which they did profess , Moses and the Prophets ; but Christ tells them plainly they did not believe Moses nor his writings ; & al you no wthat profess Christ , you cannot believe Christs words , who saith , He is the true light which doth enlighten every one that cometh into the world . Therefore out of the doctrine of Christ you are shut , and out of the Scriptures which you do profess ; for the Sons life which witnesseth the Scriptures , you deny , and are strangers unto ; He that hath an ear to hear , let him hear . Pr. Satan hath from the beginning envied a people this priviledge , and saith , at Christs first coming the commandements of God was made of none effect through tradition , Mat. 15.6 . and saith , at Christs second coming the commandements of God will be of none effect through revelation . Answ. Here thou hast uttered forth words without knowledge , but it is that thy ignorance and folly may be laid open unto all ; for it was they that made the commandements of God of none effect through tradition , which precryed standing in the Synagogues , had the chiefest places in the assemblies , and was called of men Master ; and in these steps art thou and the rest of the Pries●s in England , who say the same things ; for at Christs first coming he cried wo against such , and the same Christ cries wo against the same things now ; and whereas thou sayest that at ●hrists second coming the commandements of God will be of none effect through revelation ; Here I charge thee to be a blasphemer , and dost speak that thou hast no scripture for , and contrary to the scriptures , and contrary to the Apostles doctrine ; for Paul did witness Christs second coming , which was in the spirit , as in Gallatians 2. and 2. and saith , I went up by revelation and communicated unto them that Gospel which I preached amongst the Gentiles ; and he did witness the Son of God revealed in him , and all the Apostles , who did witness him to be come again to them the second time , to reveal the will of the Father unto them ; this did not make the commandements of God to be of none effect , and the same Christ we do witness to be come , and hath revealed the Fathers will unto us ; for no man knows the Father but the Son , and he to whom the Son reveals him ; this we do witness , eternal living praises to him for evermore ; and by his revealing his Son in us , his commandements are fulfilled ; and so all such we do deny , that say by the revelation at the second coming of Christ they shall be made of none effect . Pr. Certainly many Old Testament Saints saw into the glory and liberty of New Testament times , yet durst not cease from that worship which was burdensome , worldly and carnal , till the Lord did come in person and call them out . Answ. Here I do charge thee to prove where ever any of the Saints before Christ was made manifest in the flesh , did continue in that worship which they saw to be burdensome , worldly and carnal , but did declare against all false worship , sacrifices , and services , which was worldly and carnal , and against all who drew near to God with their mouths , whose hearts was from God , and against all idolatrous worships which were carnal , and did cast off every burden , as is witn●ssed in the Prophets which were before Christ came in the flesh ; and here all the Prophets and holy men of God shall witness against thee , as Isaiah , Jeremiah , David , Ezekiel , Micah , and the rest who worshipped God ; and their worship was not carnal nor worldly , neither did Christ come in person to call them out of their worship , for they had finished their testimony , before Christ came in the flesh ; who did fulfil their testimony , and did bear witness unto it , that it was of God , and did declare all that were out of that worship which the Saints were in , who worshipped God before Christ came in the flesh , who was the end of the Law and the end of the Prophets , let him that hath understanding read these things : now here doth Christ , the Saints , and the Scriptures all bear witness against thee and thy doctrine , wh●ch would make people believe that the Prophets and holy men of God , who were before Christ came in the flesh , did live and continue in that worship which was burdensome , worldly , and carnal , which here is proved against thee by Christ , the Saints , and the Scriptures that shame may cover thy face , and that thy mouth may be stopped , and that the simple may know the truth , for whose sakes this is given forth . Pr. So New Testament Saints may see into that liberty and glory which is to be revealed , but let them not go forth before the time , but abide in New Testament worship till the Lord come in person and call them out , and then they shall go out all together , Mat. 24.27 . It is indeed a worthy life wh●ch we live in the spirit , but it is an unworthy deceit , that except we live out of the Gospel we cannot live in the Spirit . Answ. O be ashamed for ever to confess thy self a Minister of Christ and of the Gospel : why dost thou preach at all , or what art thou a Minister of , if that Christ be yet to be revealed or uncome in person ? which thou holdest forth to the people ; and how many souls hast thou led into that pit of darkness and blindness , as to believe that Christ is yet to come in person ? he that confesseth not Jesus Christ to be come in the flesh is an Antichrist and he that preacheth any other Gospel or any other Christ then that which did come in the flesh , and was made manifest in the Saints , and is now made manifest and witnessed to be come in the flesh , let him be accursed ; now the Scripture which thou bringst in Mat. 24.27 . proves no such thing as another Christ coming in person ; for the same Scripture we do witness to be fulfilled in us , and in his light do we see all those who are in the desert , and who are in the secret chambers , whom they go out unto , who turn from the light of Christ within them , to hearken unto those who cannot witness the com●ng of the son of man , as the lightning from the East shineth even unto the West , but talks of an expectation of the appearance of Christ in person , and professed to be Ministers of that Christ which yet is to come in person ; and here thou art rased out from the Apostles doctrine who did not preach any other Christ but that which was come and made manifest , and did never tell of Christ's second coming in person , nor of his personal reign ; and thou that tells of such a deceit , that except ye live out of the Gospel , ye cannot live in the Spirit ; here thy deceit is indeed made manifest , and thy life , who would separate the Gospel from the Spirit : But against that life and deceit we bear witness , who by this Spirit do , and according to the Gospel . Again , thou art teaching people how to set up Popery , as followeth . Priest. If they will prove the Pope supream Monarch , this way it may be done ; God made two Lights , the greater to rule the day , viz. the Pope ; the lesser to rule the night , viz. the Emperor . Ans. Here thou hast professed thy self long to be a Teacher and preached against Popery , and hast not been ashamed to accuse others of it , who stand clear in the truth of God , witnessing against all such wayes of da●kness ; but now thou art here found teaching people how to make the Pope supream Monarch , by saying , God made two Lights , the greater to rule the day , viz. the Pope , the lesser to rule the night , viz the Emperor ; and so makes the Pope and Emperor to be those two Lights : Here I charge thee to prove wherever the Ministers of Christ taught any such thing to the people , or did so contemn and despise the Ordinances of Heaven , and the Lights which God made to rule the day and the night , which thou compares to carnal men like thy self : And here thou hast perverted the Scriptures , and made thy folly and deceit manifest to all , that they that can but read in the natural Heavens , will condemn thee , and out of thy own mouth thou art condemned ; for in thy paper thou hast said , That which is not Scriptural , is not spiritual : Now for that which thou hast said , thou hast no Scripture to prove it , and the Scripture will testifie against thee ; and the Sun and the Moon which are in their course in the Firmament of Heaven , will testifie against thee ; and so these we do deny , and thy doctrine , with the Pope and his Supream Monarch , and all who worship the Host of Heaven , we deny , being clear from their doctrine and deceit . Priest. If they will establish implicite faith , thus it may be done , Job 1.14 . The Oxen were plowing , and the Asses feeding besides them ; ( i. e. the Priests were preaching , and the people believing , this is to crucifie the Word of God. ) Here thou art proved and made manifest to be a false Teacher , who art teaching people how to establish implicite faith ; and to blind the eyes of people , thou bringest that Scripture Job 1.14 . when as there is no such word as implicite faith spoken of there ; nor in the Scripture thou finds no such word ; nor did ever any of the Ministers of God teach people how to establish any such thing ; and those priests who preach that , and that people which believe it , do make the Word of God of none effect through tradition . Priest. Thou art charging and accusing some to hold forth the mysterie of iniquity in principles , and to affirm a community of persons and things . Ans. The mysterie of iniquity we know , and them in whom it worketh in all deceivableness of unrighteousness ; and from it and its workings we are separated by Christ Jesus , and in his Light do see and comprehend its workings in the children of disobedience ; and all vile and unclean persons , who are in the lusts of uncleanness , and in the mystery of iniquity , and all things which are separated from the light , we have no union nor fellowship with ; and all these practices we do deny , which are unclean , which is acted contrary to the light , which is pure , in which we are called ( not unto uncleanness , but ) unto holiness : And to this God is our Witness , and our Consciences also bears us witness against all false accusers . So I charge thee who hath put forth this accusation , to turn thy mind to the light of Christ in thy conscience , & with it thou may see in thy self the ground where this mysterie of iniquity worketh ; and thou may see in thy self that which hath unity , with that which is unclean , the lusts of uncleanness , inordinate affections , and evil concupiscence ; the ground which the mysterie of iniquity worketh in , is yet standing in thee ; and so of the same things of which thou accuses others , art thou found guilty , which is for condemnation with the light . Priest. 'T is pity Christ should be the foundation , and wood , hey , stubble built thereupon ; yet this is possible , 1 Cor. 3.15 . Ans. Here thou hast perverted Paul's words , and speaks thy own invention contrary to the Scripture ; for Paul did not say , 't is pity Christ should be the foundation , but said , other foundations can no man lay , than what is laid , which is Jesus Christ , 1 Cor. 3.11 . Now if any man build upon this foundation , gold , silver , precious stones , wood , hay , stubble , every mans Work shall be made manifest : Now in the Light art thou made manifest , that Christ is not thy foundation , who takes Pauls words out of their place , who witnessed Christ to be the foundation ; but thou art found building upon this foundation , gold , silver , hay , stubble , and making a refuge of lyes , which are for the fire , whose work is to be burned in the day of the Lord. Priest. Thou sayest , Wisdom is grown up to perfection amongst that people called Quakers . Ans. In the Light of Christ we dwel , which comprehends thy Wisdom , which is earthly , sensual and devillish , and from that Wisdom these things published forth in thy paper do proceed , which is full of lyes and confusion ; but in the Light of Christ made manifest in those thou calls Quakers , art thou seen to be in that Wisdom which is not perfect ; and so thee and thy Word we do deny , which is for condemation with the Light , which is contrary to thy earthly Wisdom . Priest. Thou Priest Woodall art accusing me for numbering thee amongst those who are guilty of preaching for carnal things , who reap carnal things ; and this thou makes thy defence , saying , This is my case , More then seven years I have served in the Gospel , where I am receiving what a people freely give for my Family , reproach in outward things , refusing a considerable setled maintenance elsewhere . Ans. Such as thou sowest , such shalt thou reap ; and all they who have given thee money for preaching such things as thou hast here published forth in print , they have given thee money for that which is not bread , and so bought the carnal with the carnal ; but their souls are yet made merchandize of ; and that unjust gain which thou hast received this seven yeers from that people , will rise up in judgement against thee , who hast not only used it for thy necessity and support in outward things which were needful for the use of the body , but hast spent it upon thy lust and pride in thy family , spending more in lust and pride , and gay apparel , than those whom thou receivest the gift from : And thou who hast professed thy self to be a servant to that people , and they having given thee Wages so long for that which did not profit them , thou after the manner of the Gentiles hath exercised Authority and Lordship over them ; and whereas thou shouldest be their hired servant , they call thee Master ; thou which should be the least of all amongst them , art greatest of all , exceeding them all in pride and high-mindedness , in ease , in pleasures , in idleness and fulness of bread ; but as the Lord doth open the eyes of those whom thou hast kept in blindnesse and ignorance , they wil come to see thee and thy doctrine to be contrary unto the Gospel of Christ , as they may plainly see and read in those things which thou hast published forth in print , which is serviceable unto all who hath understanding , that thy confusion and folly , and lyes against the Truth , against Christ , against the Saints , and against the Scriptures they may see , which hath been long hid , but now is made manifest in the Light unto all who are come to know the free teachings of God , who will no more give thee money for speaking a divination of thy own brain , and not from the mouth of the Lord. Priest. Who knows not that Tythes and Glebes were under that dispensation by Divine Law ordained for the maintenance of the Priests ? Ans. Here thou wouldst make people believe that thou denies tythes , which was for the maintenance of the Priests under the Law : But as for the glebes which thou speaks of , there was never any such thing ordained in the Law ; here thou hast made it appear that thou art ignorant of that which was ordained for the Priests maintenance under that dispensation ; for they had no inheritance nor glebe lands to maintain them , as some of the priests of England have ; and yet those priests in England which do receive tythes , and so upholds that which thou seems to deny , yet thou owns them as thy brethren , and to be Ministers of the gospel : And here your deceit is so plainly made manifest , that you accuse one another , and condemn one another , all your hearts being exercised with covetous practices , preaching for filthy lucre , all being agreed together to persecute , revile and slander the pure truth of God where it is made manifest in his servants to declare against all your deceits , that out of your snares the righteous seed of God may be delivered , to testifie against you and your Ministry , under which the Seed of God is kept in bondage . Priest. Reader , I have done ; our Heavenly Father taketh sleeping Disciples at the best , Matth. 26.40 . Ans. Here thou hast uttered forth a lye , that all may plainly see ; who saith thou hast done , and in the next words saith , Our Heavenly Father taketh sleeping Disciples at the best : Now from this Scripture in Matth. 26.40 . thy words are proved to be false ; for in that condition the Disciples were then in , they were not at the best , who could not watch with Christ one hour ; and the Comforter was not then come , which afterwards they did witness , by travel , and labour , and fasting , and prayer , and watching day and night they did witness ; and we who do witness the same condition now , do testifie against thee , and all who make lyes of the Apostles , who did witness Jesus Christ in truth and uprightness of heart ; and the same Christ do we witness , and do freely preach him to every Nation , being made manifest to that of God in every ones conscience to be witnessed . Now as my first Query is printed in thy paper , the latter part of it I deny , which was not given forth , nor spoken so by me· In thine it is written thus : How can that be said to be a natural Light , which witnesseth unto God , & against the things of the Spirit of God ? Which is false . But in mine it is written thus : How can that be said to be a natural Light , which witnesses unto God in that which is holy , & against the natural inclinations of fallen man , seeing the Scripture saith , the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God , 1 Cor. 2.14 ? Now as every one hath a desire to knovv the truth of these things , that the occasion of stumbling may be taken avvay , they may read the Query as it was given forth from me in pag. 16. of that printed paper , called , David's Enemies discovered , which was put forth in print to be seen as it vvas there vvritten , before Woodals paper ( vvhich is novv in print ) vvas given forth : And this I have given forth , that the truth may be cleared , ovvning that vvhich did proceed from me , and denying that vvhich is not mine : And as for Frederick Woodals Ansvvers to the Queries , they are replied unto in the paper above-mentioned , and to the rest of his printed paper an ansvver is herein returned , that he may not boast in his folly , but be ashamed and repent . Novv as in ansvver to that in the latter end of thy book , vvhich thou directs the Reader unto , thou seeing that thou hast holden forth these things . vvhich thou canst not prove , as the first Adam to be the Fountain of all natural good , and so to blind the eyes of people that they may not see thy lye ; and saith , thou means not primitively ; and here thou speaks one thing , and means another ; but this covering is too n●rrow for thee , and under it thou canst not hide thy self , but thy nakedness and shame appears to all whose eyes are opened , and by them thou art seen . And whereas thou would●● cover over thy shame of that thou hast formerly spoken in telling of two Images , the Image of God , and the Image of Christ , and that the first was natural , and the second spiritual ; and here thou speaks contrary to the Scriptures , which saith , he is the express Image of the Father : And herein all who do witness the Scriptures to be true , must witness against thee who speaks contrary to the Scr●ptures ; and now to blind peoples eyes , thou tells them thou understands it thus : Adam was made after the Image of God , God the Father , Son , and the Holy Spirit ; Come , let us make man , not after our , not my Image , To this I answer , Here thou hast added to the Scripture , for God did not say , Not my Image , as thou dost charge him to say ; for the Scripture saith , God created man in his own image , in the image of God created he him , as Gen. 1.27 . And thou calls the image in which Adam was created , the essential image , and the image of Christ thou calls a personal image ; and hereby them who dwell in the Light , thou art seen out of the substance , in the images , making to thy self images and likenesses from thy imaginations ; but in them thou canst not know God and Christ , nor the image of God in which Adam was created in innocency ; and there is no such word in Scripture as Essential image ; and here thou goest about to make three images , and so amongst the image-makers thou art , who art out of Gods commands , and there thou may read thy self . But now the Lord God is gathering his own seed by his eternal light , out of all images and likenesses , to be conformed to the image of the Son , & to bear his image who is invisible , which all the imaginers cannot enter into , who stumble at the Light ; but all such are seen by the children of the Light , and denyed ; for now do they witness from the Lord the day of Redemption , yea plenteous Redemption is now witnessed by them who dwell in the Light which comprehends the World , & out of the World , and out of the Worlds teachings , and out of the Worlds wayes , and out of the Worlds Worships , into the pure teachings of God , and into the Covenant , where they know God , and are taught of him ; and no more can they be led by the blind guides , for their eyes are opened which were blind , and now in the Light of Christ the Way is seen which leads unto God the Father of Light , and in it all false Prophets and false Teachers they do see , and by them cannot be deceived , who come in sheeps cloathing , and are beautiful outwardly , decked with the Saints words , but inwardly ravening Wolves . And now their covering comes to be taken of , which was none of their own ; and now the Wolf appears ravening against the Lambs of God ; for the day hath made them manifest , and of them the Lambs of God are aware , and in innocency are preserved , and in the pure Wisdom , which is not of this World , in it they see and comprehend the Serpents Wisdom , subtilty , craftiness and snares , which for the righteous seed are laid , but in the Eternal Light made manifest to the seed ; a way is seen out of them all , and by the Eternal Power of the pure living God of life , deliverance out of them all is witnessed ; Eternal , pure , living praises to him for evermore . Given forth from the love of God to the souls of those who desire to know the truth , to take away all stumblings , and cut off all occasions from all minds , that in the Light of Gheist the truth they may see to be clear from all slanders and false accusations which from the unclean spirits proceeds , which goeth out of the mouth of the Dragon to devour the innocent ; but from the Dragon and all his Floods the innocent are preserved : Given forth from him who a witness stands for the truth of God against all deceit , R. H. Written from Mondlesham in Suffolk , the 29. of the 3. Month , 1655. The distance between Flesh and Spirit , &c. THis is the Word of the Lord to all people , as I am moved of the Lord to clear the scandals and false accusations cast upon the righteous seed ; and as the seed of God in all generations have suffered reproaches from the World , so now the same seed where it is brought forth , suffers by this generation of evil doers , and is afflicted and tormented , and shamefully accused now in England , whom you call Quakers : And you say we deny all the Ordinances of Christ ; and you say we do not honor the Magistr●tes , nor are subject unto Authority , but are disturbers and breakers of the peace , which is false . The first accusation ; You say we deny Repentance . Ans. And this is false ; for Repentance is the gift of God , and this gift we have received , and his free grace , which teacheth us to deny all ungodliness and worldly lusts , Tit. 2.12 . & by repentance we have forsaken sin as it was discover'd to us by the Light of Christ which he hath enlightned us withall , and so the mercies of God we have found according to his promise , and are sent of the Lord to preach Repentance to all people , who would have all men come to repentance , and to the acknowledgement of the truth , that they might be saved , 2 Tim. 2.25 . And with the Word of the Lord , as they are moved of the Lord , do many go now with this Doctrine into your streets , into your markets , into your synagogues , and into your cities , to call you to repentance , before the wrath of the Lord come upon you , and both sons and daughters now are sent to preach this Doctrine amongst you from the Lord ; and for obeying the Lord herein , are they reviled by you , and persecuted and falsly accused : And th●s is left for a Testimony against you from the Lord , and shall bear witness against you . The second Accusation is , That we deny Baptism . Ans. The Baptism of Christ we own , which all the Saints were baptized into , which was by one spirit into one body , as in 1 Cor. 12.13 . and by this baptism we do witness the washing away of sin , not onely the washing avvay the filth of the flesh , but the answer of a good conscience towards God : But sprinkling of Infants vve deny , which there is no Scripture for . And all you who from your imagination do imitate Johns Baptism , and so go into the vvater , and say you are believers , and have right to the Ordinances of Christ ; but you to be believers we deny , vvho are not yet come to repentance ; and your Water-baptism , vvhich is but an imitation from the letter ; for the Lord never sent you forth , nor commanded you either to preach or baptize , as they did vvhom you go about to imitate , vvho are not yet come to repentance , nor to the first principle of the doctrine of Christ , nor to ovvn the light of Christ in your consciences , which should exercise them , and lead you to vvait upon God , and lead you to repentance : And the Faith of believers you know not ; for the mysterie of Faith is held in a pure conscience , 1 Tim. 3.9 . vvhich you cannot vvitness , which hates the Light of Christ , vvhich should exercise your consciences ; and so your minds and consciences are defiled , and vvith that mind you talk of faith , and of the Ordinances of Christ , and of Water-baptism , vvhich serveth unto us for a figure , as the Apostle saith , 1 Pet. 3 21. And Jesus Christ was baptized by John by water , that he might fulfil all righteousness , Mat. 3.15 . And John was a Prophet , and Christ is the end of the Prophets ; and Johns baptism was but a figure ; for he said he did but baptize with water ; but Christ is the end of all figures , types and shadows , and did fulfil them ; for he fulfilled all righteousness , and Johns Ministry , and Johns baptism ; and he that fulfilled all righteousness , the same baptizeth , which John did bear witness unto , and all men came unto him , Joh. 3 16 , but he baptized none with water . But this is a mysterie to thy dark mind , which knows not the baptism of Christ , nor Johns doctrine , nor Jesus Christ the true Light , which enlighteneth every one that cometh into the world , vvhich John bore witness unto , John 1.9 . but goes to hold up the types and figures which Christ came to fulfil , and so deniest Christ to be come in the flesh to fulfil all righteousness , and so thou art an Antichrist , who holds up the figures which Christ came to fulfil ; and so thou denies the Scriptures and Christ , who said he came to fulfil all righteousness ; and the Saints baptism thou art ignorant of , which is , by one Spirit into one body , 1 Cor. 12.13 . And Paul who was a Minister of Christ , and preached the Gospel , did bring many into this baptism , and he was not sent to baptize with water , but to preach the Gospel ; and all the Churches which he preached unto , came to witness Christs baptism with the Holy Ghost and with fire , by one Spirit into one body , and were baptized into Christ who was the head of the body , Rom. 6.3 . and by this baptism we are thus washed from all filthiness of flesh and Spirit ; but your imitated baptism of water we deny , who live in your filthiness of flesh and spirit , whose minds and consciences are defiled ; but the baptism of Christ we own , which purifies our consciences from dead Works , and keeps our minds undefiled by the washing of regeneration , and renewing of the Holy Ghost , Tit. 3 5. The third accusation is , That we deny the Sacrament , which is an Ordinance of Christ. Ans. For the word Sacrament , there is no such Scripture which speaks of a Sacrament ; therefore we do deny you and your Sacrament , and your Bread and Wine , which is carnal , and feed● the carnal which must die , and your communion is in that which is carnal , in the creatures , and Drunkards and Swearers have fellowship together with you in those things ; and all lyars , covetous ones , prophane and idolatrous ones , eats of the bread , and drinks of the cup , and sits at the Table which is the Table of Devils : And this is your Sacrament , which stands without in carnal bread and wine , and feeds the carnal , which oppresseth and murders the Seed of God within you ; and you say , Christ hath left that as an Ordinance for you to practice , which is false , which we deny ; but the Supper of the Lord we own : The Cup of blessing which we bless , is it not the communion of the blood of Christ ? And the bread which we break , is it not the communion of the body of Christ ? for we being many , are one bread , for we are all partakers of that one bread , 1 Cor. 10.16 , 17 , 21 , 22. And this is the bread which came down from Heaven ; he that eateth thereof , shall never dye : And this Bread we all eat of , and this cup we all drink of , and this is that which is practised and commanded in the Church of Christ ; and so we sit at the Table of Christ , and cannot sit nor have fellowship with the Table of Devils : And they who sit at your Table , and your Sacrament , and eat of your Bread , and drink of your Wine , they dye , for it is not the bread of life ; and you who eat and drink it , do not discern the Lord's body ; for it is spiritual , and your Sacrament is carnal ; and so you eat and drink damnation to your selves , not discerning the Lords body , feeding the carnal with the carnal ; and so we deny your Sacrament to be any Ordinance of Christ , or the Supper of Christ , 1 Cor. 11.29 . The fourth Accusation is , That we deny the resurrection of the Body . Ans. And that is false ; for at the sound of the last Trumpet the dead shall be raised ; they that have done good shall arise to the resurrection of life ; they that have done evil , to the resurrection of condemnation . And we preach Christ risen from the dead ; and if the dead rise not , then is our preaching vain , and your faith is also in vain , and you are yet in your sins , who know not this resurrection , Christ risen from the dead in you , 1 Cor. 15.14 , 15 , 16 , 17. But some man will say , How are the dead raised ? and with what bodies do they come ? 1. Cor. 15.35 . Thou fool , that which thou sowest , thou sowest not that body that shall be , but bare grain , it may chance of wheat , or of some other grain , but God giveth it a body as it pleaseth him , and to every seed his own body . There is also celestial bodies , and bodies terrestrial ; and the glory of the celestial is one , and the glory of the terrestrial is another ; there is one glory of the Sun , another glory of the Moon , and another glory of the Stars , for one star differs from another star in glory . So also is the resurrection of the dead ; it is sown in corruption , it is raised in incorruption ; it is sown in dishonor , it is raised in glory ; it is sown in weakness , it is raised in power ; it is sown a natural body , it is raised a spiritual body , 1 Cor. 15.35.36 , 37 , 38. Now this I say unto you all , That flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of G●d , neither doth corruption inherit incorruption , 1 Cor. 15.50 , 51 , 52. But this is to you all a mystery , who are in the first nature , whose understandings are not enlightned by the light of Christ , who live in your forms , notions , and professions of these things in the Letter , feeding your carnal minds with the Letter , which is death , and killeth , and so your minds are drawn from the Light of Christ within you , into outward observances of meats and drinks , bread and wine , divers washings & carnal Ordinances , which were figures of the time then present , Heb. 9.9 , 10. and you deny Jesus Christ the Substance , who is the true Light that enlighteneth every one that cometh into the World. Now to the Light in you all I speak , which Christ Jesus hath enlightened you withall ; and if you love this Light , it will lead you out of all your carnal Ordinances , and Worships , and divers Washings , which stand in the first covenant , which was before Christ , and is done away in Christ the second covenant , and it will lead you to worship God in the spirit , and into the doctrine of Christ , to yea and nay in all your communications . But all who are got up high in forms and profession , you are not yet come to yea and nay , but are out of the doctrine of Christ , and walk contrary to the Light of Christ in your consciences , which Light shall be your condemnation that hate it , John 3.19 , 20. though you be got up high in your forms and notions , and words of the Saints conditions , who spoke in the light , and from the life : And you who have the form , but not the life , shall be condemned by the life ; and you who hate the light , shall be condemned with the light and life which gave forth the Scriptures . The fifth Accusation is , That we do not honor Magistrates , nor are subject unto Authority , but are disturbers and breakers of the peace . Ans. Justice we own , and righteousness ; and all who love the Light of Christ which he hath enlightened them withall , it will lead them to act Justice . And all Magistrates , I charge you in the presence of the living God , to act according to that which is pure of God in the conscience : And all Magistrates who act according to that of God in the conscience , are honored by those who fear the Lord , and walk in obedience to that in the conscience ; and those who act justice according to that in the conscience , they do not bear the sword in vain , for that in the conscience is according to the law of God ; and all you Magistrates who are set over the people to do Justice , and execute the lavv upon offendors , this is the Word of the Lord to you , To mind the Light of Christ in your consciences , and it vvill cause you to act according to the place of a Magistrate : But if you suffer Svvearers , and Drunkards , or Lyars , or Oppressors , or false Weights , or Strikers , or Quarrellers , or Fighters , and do not punish them , or Whoremongers , or Idolaters , or idle persons , vvithout a calling ; & thou that passeth by these things , & dost not act justice according to the lavv , then thou acts not according to that light in the conscience , and thou bears the svvord in vain , and that in the conscience vvill take hold upon thee , and condemn thee , and vvil execute the righteous lavv of God upon thee vvho refuseth to act according to that in the conscience ; but those vvhom you call Quakers , act according to that in the conscience , and they are no fighters , no strikers , no drunkards , no swearers , no oppressors , no whoremongers , no idolators , no fornicators , no lyars , no scorners , no revilers , no false accusers , not proud , not high-minded , not thieves , not murtherers ; for they give obedience to that in the conscience which crucifies them to all these things , and so the Law cannot take hold upon them ; and from the Lord do they declare against all these things where they are yet standing , which the Law of God takes hold upon . And you who are called Magistrates and Justices , as you pass through the streets in the Cities and in the Markets , you may hear men swear and lye , and be drunk in the Ale-houses , & you pass by them : And when any of the servants of the Lord , who are sent of the Lord into the Markets or Cities , and declare the Word of the Lord against drunkards , swearers and lyars , who are cheating one another , and cozening one another , and bid them repent , and declare to them the just judgement of God which is to fall upon them , and all such whom thou who art a Magistrate , hath neglected to act Justice upon , and to punish according to the law , then they who are drunkards , fall a fighting and striking , and hales them to thee vvho art a Magistrate , who shouldst punish the drunkards and swearers , fighters & strikers ; and thou saist , they have disturbed the people , and broken the peace , when they have declared the Word of the Lord against sin & ungodliness , and all the unrighteousness of men , which thou should have punished by the Law : And thou art called a Justice of peace , and this is thy peace which is kept with drunkards , swearers , strikers and fighters , and is disturbed by the Word of the Lord declared from the mouth of the Lord by his servants against all these things , who art not guilty of any of those things : And here thou art no Minister of God , but an encourager of evil doers , and discourager of those that do well , vvho declare justice from God against those whom thou should act justice upon ; and when they are brought before thee , thou wouldst have them to honor thee , who art a vile person , and no Minister of God , and no honor belongs unto thee , but he who ministers justice from that which is pure of God in the conscience , is worthy of double honor ; & because they wil not honor thee , vvho acts no justice , but according to thy corrupt wil & is not obedient to that of God in the conscience , thou sends them to prison , or out of the City or Markets , or stocks or whips them ; & if a drunkard or swearer wil put off his hat to thee and bow to thee , and call thee Master , thou dost not imprison such an one , nor punish him neither with Stocks nor Whips , nor counts him any breaker of the peace : And here they who break the peace , and act contrary to the Law of God , are spared , and are at liberty ; and they who keep the peace , and do violence to no man , they are punished by those who should act Justice in the Land. And here iniquity is set in the place of Justice , and is at liberty , and Truth is imprisoned by the Rulers of the Nation . And to all Rulers I speak from the Lord to that in your consciences ; minding it wil let you see who it is that is not subject to Authority ; Whether they that are drunk , or they who declare against drunkenness ; Whether thty that swear , or they who declare against swearing , and deny to swear at all ; Whether they that fight , and strike , and beat one another , or they who never lift up a hand against any man , but declare the Word of the Lord against such things . And them whom you call Quakers are no drunkards , nor no swearers ; for Jesus Christ saith , Swear not at all , but let your yea b● yea , and your nay be nay ; and so they abide in the doctrine of Christ , and keep the peace of God , and are justified in the sight of God , and are no breakers of the peace , but are subject unto Authority , & for conscience-sake cannot break the commands of Christ , nor do any wrong nor violence unto any man , and the peace ; for they are no fighters nor strikers , Rom. 13.45 . but they are smitten and striken , and they give their backs to the smiter , and hide not their face from shame and spitting , as the same Seed Christ did , who passed before , Isa. 50.6 . who preached repentance , and spoke in cities , markets and villages , and by the sea-coasts ; and then all the city vvas in an uproar , as it is novv , and their peace vvas broken , and they vvere disturbed , & they smote him on the face , and buffeted him , and imprisoned him , lest if he should be let alone , all men should believe on him . And you are the same generation now : for any vvho are sent of the Lord novv to preach repentance , to turn you from your iniquities , that your minds might be turned to the Light of Christ vvithin you , vvhich vvill check you for sin and evil ; then your cities are on an uproar against them , to persecute them , and so you fill up the measures of your fathers iniquity . A Word from the Lord to all you who are called before the Magistrate to be a Jury , who swear before the Magistrates to see the Law put in execution , and that you will execute the Law upon Drunkards and Swearers , and that you will see that the poor , the fatherless and widows , be relieved , and not see them want ; and this you swear before the Magistrates , that you will see it performed , and that none be idle nor wander abroad without a Calling : And some of you that swear to punish Drunkards , are Drunkkards , and have fellowship with Drunkards ; and you that swear to punish swearers , are swearers ; and here out of your own mouths you are condemned , and by the Light of Chr●st you are judged , who are Swearers ; you are out of the commands of Christ , who saith , Swear not at all . And you see the Poor , the Fatherless and Widows in want , and you do not relieve them ; and you see idle persons without any calling , and you do not set them on work , but they live in idleness , devouring the Creation : And herein you do not perform your Vows , nor execute the Law which you professe , and so acts contrary to the Light of Christ in your consciences . Now to the Light of Christ in you all I speak , and charge you in the presence of the living God , to take heed unto it , and it will let you see wherein you have transgressed the pure Law of God , and suffered sin to reign unpunished , and it will bring the condemnation upon you who have acted contrary to it ; and taking heed to the Light , it will lead you out of all those things which the Law of God takes hold upon , and will add the Law upon every transgression : And all you that act contrary to the Light of Christ in the Conscience , it will be your condemnation : And you are they who deny the Ordinancs of Christ , which walks not according to the Light of Christ which he hath enlightened you withall ; and you are they who are not subject to Authority , who are not obedient to the Light of Christ in the conscience ; and you are the disturbers and breakers of the peace , whose minds are not guided by the Light of Christ ; and this Light will let you see , giving heed unto it , who are out of the commands of Christ , and are not subject unto Authority , nor obedient to the Light of Christ in the conscience . And here I have cleared my conscience to you all from the Lord ; to the Light of Christ in your consciences I speak , which will eternally witness me to have spoken the truth unto you all , who have falsly accused the innocent . As I was moved of the Lord , who is a Servant unto you from the Lord , in love to all your souls , to set up righteousness in the Land. R. H. The Light of Christ within , proved to be sufficient to lead unto God. In Answer to a Book put forth by John Tombes and Richard Bax●er , In which they go about to prove the Light within insufficient to lead to God ; by many falli●le Arguments , by Perverting of Scr●pture , and their own reasonings . But their rule for proof being so fallible , uncertain and confused , that often-times they prove that which they would disprove , and confess that which they would deny . For the convincing and edifying of those that are not satisfied concerning the Light within , is this given forth by R. H. Prov. 4.18.19 . The path of the Just is a shining light , shining more and more unto the perfect day . The way of the wicked is darkness , they know not at what they stumble . BEcause the Lord hath appeared , and his True Light is broken forth , that by it his Inheritance may be gathered , and his Dominion from sea to sea may be witnessed ; and because many with it are already gathered into the Covenant of everlasting Life , & many are turning their faces thitherwards , enquiring the way to Sion ; therefore doth the offence arise ( like floods ) from men of corrupt minds , destitute of the Truth and spiritual understanding of the great mysterie of godliness , to wit , God manifest in the flesh , though appearing us in a form of godliness , and words of Scripture , which in unrighteousness they hold , both perverting the Scriptures , and falsly accusing others ( to wit ) Christ , the Prophets and Apostles ; and last of all , those called Quakers , that so by any means the might quench the Light of that fire which God hath k●●dled , or hinder his Work which he hath begun , that the vail which is over peoples hearts , under which iniquity is hid , might not be read nor discovered : Therefore is there a joining together , and making a confederacy one with another against those which follow the Lamb of God , & keep the Word of his Testimony ; for upon the same account as we read Luk. 23.12 . that Pilate and Herod was made friends , who before had been at enmity between themselves , which was to set at nought and to deliver up to be crucified the Son of God ; upon the same account is Baxter the rigid Presbyter , and Tombs the pretended Baptist , made Friends , and call one another Reverend Brethren , both setting themselves with their strength , arguments and reasons , devised words , and false charges , against the breaking forth of Christ's Light , and walking in his truth ; for but a little while since Baxter had said , that Tombs and the Anabaptists were the Authors and Fautors of the delusion of the Quakers , as Tombs confesseth in his Epistle . And Baxter also confesseth the same in his Epistle , That he hath been too eager in disputations , which he saith is too well known in the Nation . And although here is a great pretended unity betwixt them , yet it is but in hypocrisie ; for in one page of Baxters Epistle , he talks of holding the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace , as members of the same head and body , uniting their force for the common Truth , against the pernicious Adversaries thereof : And in the next page saith , That he hath already told the Episcopal Brethren , That Bishop Usher and he did fully agree in half an hour ; but saith , That the wound is yet u●healed betwixt him and Tombs ; for he never treated with Tombs about such a matter , but saith , he is confident that they should agree in one day upon terms of common charity and forbearance : So that to men of understanding it appears , that Baxter is agreed with the Bishop and the Episcopal Brethren , but not with Tombs no● the Congregational Brethren ; and further , it is manifest from his own words , and according to his limit and time of treaty , that he could agree with twenty four bishops as soon as with Tombs , for all their pretended unity and agreement ; for the●e is twelve hours in a day , and he agreed with one Bishop in half an hour . So we seeing their book begin with such ly●s and confusions , we know the whole Volume and effects of it wil minister nothing else to the people ; the strength and force of those two lately pretended brethren joined against the Quakers , in their two Epistles , and nine see ●on● , in which i● thirty arguments and ten reasons against the sufficiently and spirituality of Christ's Light wherewith he hath enlightened every man which cometh into the World ; yet for want of knowledge , and because of darkness , speaks against themselves , and prove● that which they would disprove , as by something following may be made manifest . 1. As first , the charge against the Quakers in the 15 th page of their book , is , That we put darkness for light , in that we make a natural Light , which is but darkness in spirituals , as if it were to be heeded as mens rule in all sorts of duties , and knowledge of the things of God. Ans. This charge is false ; for we do not make any natural Light if heeded , as mens rule in any duty , nor to the knowledge of God ; neither have ever held such a thing ; but this is the way of old of all slanderous tongues , first to lay down a false position of their own , and then disproving it , makes people believe that they have confuted an error , when they have but proved their own words false ; and so boasteth in a vain shew , as David saith , Psal. 39.6 . proving nothing against us . Again , John Tombs saith , page 28. That C●●●st makes mens hearts void of Light , till they be enlightened with his Light , and that every man till he be enlightened by Christ , wants Light to guide him in the knowledge of his duty , and the way to salvation . Ans. But in contradiction to that , in page 11. he saith , that Christ ascended far above all Heavens , that he might fill all things , to wit , with his Light , Eph. 4.11 . So here he hath answerd himself ; for if Christ that is ascended , doth fill all things with his Light , then he doth not make mens hearts void of Light. In page 17. he saith , That Christ enlightens the world with the knowledge of God , as the Prophet of the Church ; and if so , then men want not Light to guide them in the knowledge of their duty , and the way to salvation ; so herein he hath answered himself , to his own confusion . Again in page 43. he saith , That none of the Gentiles not barbarous people , who had not the Scripture , nor such other teachings as God's People were taught by , had the Light within them ; which might be a ●●mpleat and safe rule or guide to them for the pleasing of God. Ans. In contradiction unto which , he saith in page 60. that Christ as the Mediator , enlightens with spiritual Light every man that cometh into the World ; and pag 62. That he enlightens Gentiles as well as Jews , with a spiritual Light. And page 63. that Christ as the Sun of Righteousness was to enlighten all Nations . So then , if those latter be true , then the former is false ; for if all that come into the World , both Jews and Gentiles , be enlightened with a spiritual Light by Christ as their Mediator , and as he is the Sun of Righteousness , then they do not want a Light within them , which is a compleat and safe Rule or Guide to them for the pleasing of God ; and so by this the Quakers Doctrine is approved and made good , instead of being disproved . Again , that John Tombs may appear to be wise above what is written , he goes about to prove many Lights under several names and distinctions ; as page 12. he saith , There are Lights that like ignis fatuus , foolish fire , lead men into dark places , lakes and bogs , wherein they that follow them , perish . Secondly , There are lights that for a while lead men in the way , and then soon go out , and so leave men in darkness and perplexity . Thirdly , That there is an amazing light , that doth by its brightness strike dead , and cast down to the Earth , Rev. 1.16 , 17. Acts 22.6.11 . Act ; 9.9 . Fourthly , Christ is an excelling light , not striking dead , nor casting down ; nor blinding , Fifthly ; That there was a light in the law , but it was imperfect . Sixthly , That there is a bodily light in animate bodies . Seventhly , That there is a natural light of Creatures . Eighthly , There is a rational light of men , pag. 16. Ninthly , That there is a Scripture-light ; and ( saith he ) the Word which is written in my Bible , shall be my light , page 80. Ans. In that which is above-mentioned , he appeareth to be puffed up by vain conceits , imaginations and distinctions , above what is written in the Scriptures of Truth , till he manifests himself to be wholly in darkness , not knowing what he saith , nor whereof he affirmeth : For where doth the Scripture speak of any Lights like false fire that leads men into dark places , Lakes and Bogs ? but we read in the Scriptures , that he that walks in darkness , knows not whether he goes ; and there is the perishing in the Lakes : And where doth the Scriptures speak of such Lights as for a while lead ●●n in the way , and then go out when men are in the way , and so leave them in darkness ? And where do the Scriptures speak of a natural Light , and a bodily Light , and a rational-Light , and a Scripture-Light ? And whereas thou speakest of an amazing light , that by its brightness doth strike down dead , and cast down to the Earth , and brings Rev. 1 16 , 17. Acts 22.6 , 11. Acts 9.9 . whereas it saith , That the light of Christ's countenance was as the Sun shining in his strength , which when John saw him , fell at his feet dead ; and Paul with the light was struck down ; which Light appearing to John and Paul , was Christ ; yet in the next words contrary to the Scriptures and thy own assertions , saith , That Christ is an excelling light , not striking dead , nor casting down , nor blinding : And so thy words is but as a heap of confusion and contradiction one unto another , and to the Scriptur●● ; and so in a few words thou maist be answered , even with thy own darkness ; for if thou knew the Light of Christ in the least measure , it would keep thee out of the line of this confusion ; and then thou would justifie those whom now thou condemns and falsly accuseth to be guilty of thy own devisings . Again , Another contradiction concerning the Light , from page 33. thou saist , That light from Christ as Creator , is conferred upon all men without exception of any person : And to contradict it , in p. 37. he saith , that the Gentiles are without light . And p. 66. that Christ enlightens Gentiles as well as Jews , with his spiritual light . Ans. So to what end is all thy preaching and printing , but to utter forth thy own confusion ? And dost thou think that all people are blind as thy self , that cannot see plain contradiction ? Nay , for the light is risen in which thou art seen , if thou hadst more subtilty , craft and guile to cover thy self withall , than thou hast ; but thou hast appeared naked , that every one may see thy shame . Again , John Tombs in the 26. page saith , that in this life they that are born of the Spirit , are flesh ; whereas Christ saith , He that is born of the spirit , is spirit . Ans. Herein thou art imprudent to place these two contr●dictions together , and to set thy lye before Christ's Truth , to make people believe , that although Christ said , He that is bor● of the Spirit , is Spirit , yet it is not so ; for he that is born of the Spirit , is flesh , saist thou ; and to prove thy lye against his truth saith , that the new birth which makes us no longer flesh and blood i● that se●ce , is not the birth of water and of the Spirit mentioned Job . 3.5 . but the Power of God by which he will raise us up , 1 Cor. ● . 14 . the birth of water nor the Spirit , John 3.5 , 6. is here in this life , th● other is not till the resurrection . Ans. Herein thy proof is as false as thy lye before-mentioned ; for ●hat which is born of water and of the spirit , is spirit , and also the power of God b● which we are raised up , is witnessed in this life , whereby the Apostle said they were made members of Christ , and were joined unto the Lord by that one Spirit of which they were born : And is this the Faith which thou begets people into , that they cannot be born again in this life , of the Spirit ? So they have believed and followed thee long enough ; for they were but in the fleshly birth before thou came amongst them , and are so yet , and must not be born of the Spirit by thy doctrine , while in this life , until the resurrection ; and so that they may believed thee , and not Christ , thou strivest to keep them from minding of his Light within them , whereby they should be led to believe in him , which saith , They that are born of the spirit , is spirit ; and that they must first be born , before they ca● enter into the Kingdom of God. Again , pag. 29. saith , That of such corruption as David was guilty of in the matter of Uriah , want of Light to guide in the way of happiness , is a chief part . Ans. David did not want Light as the cause or chief part of his sin , but was disobedient unto the Light which he had received , and that was the cause why he did the thing that was sin against the Lord ; but in this , as in the rest of thy Book , thou wouldst charge all iniquity upon the want or insufficiency of the Light , and not upon the creatures disobedience to it ; and so contrary to the Scriptures , would make mans destruction not to be of himself , or his separation from God not to be by his sins , but the insufficiency of the Lights and so accuseth the Light , and not the darkness ; and accuseth God , ●nd not the disobedient man ; and so a●t become a fighter against God , Christ , his Light and servants ; and hereby thou ●rives to serve the wicked one , who rules by the power of ●arkness in the disobedient , by raising thy strong Arguments ●nd Reasons against the sufficiency of the Light to lead God , ●ome of which arguments I shall mention , that thereby people ●ay understand all the rest , which are empty and foolish as to ●hat which thou intends them . Argument from Psal. 81.11 , 12. But my people would not hear●en to my voice , and Israel would none of me ; so I gave them up to their ●wn hearts lusts , &c. Whe●ce I argue , That Light in man cannot be a ●afe sufficient guide to a man in his way to God , to which the leaving 〈◊〉 person is reckoned as the greatest curse and judgement ; but to leave a ●erson to his own imagination and lust , to walk in his own counsel , which 〈◊〉 all one as to leave him to the Light within him . Ans. Thy Argument is not agreeable unto this Scripture , ●hich thou makes as the ground of it ; for because Israel did not hearken to God's voice , no● would none of him , therefore he gave them up to their own hearts lusts ; therefore saist thou , ●he Light is not a sufficient Guide : First , thou shouldst have ●roved that the Light of Israel which is a fire , Isa. 10.17 . and ●he holy one as a flame , was not sufficient ; and thou shouldest have proved that the giving of them up to their own hearts ●usts , was a giving of them up to that Light within them : In ●his thy false and foolish Argument thou saist , that God reckon● it the greatest curse to leave a man to the Light in him ; which Light before thou hast confessed to be spiritual , and to be the Light of the knowledge of God ; and now thou saist , To leave man to the Light , is to leave man to his lusts and imaginations : What , is now Light become lust and imaginations ? Why then doth thy Brother Baxter in his Epistle tell us , that it is to be hearkened to , and obeyed ? What are you now agreed to call the Light darkness or lust ? and when you have done so , that men may hearken unto it , and obey it ? Here is breaking of the command , and teaching others to do so . In page 68. of thy Book thou tells us , That the Teachers of the Law did teach many things right about God's Being , Works & Worship , and yet thou saist , that in other things they were as blind as Molds : But in this hast thou not much more condemned thy self to be more blind then they are ? for they taught Christ aright about God's Being , Works and Worship ; but thou hast taught things false about these things ; for the Teachers of the Law did never say , That to leave men to the Light was the greatest curse ; but said , That Light is sown for the righteous , and gladness for the upright in heart , Psal. 97.11 . And said also , that the path of the just is as the shining Light. Neither did they ever call the Light lust nor imagination , as thou hast done ; but when thou art sober , and seest thy confusion , consider whether it be not rather the greatest curse and judgment from God , to leave a man to his own darkness and ignorance , ( as thou art ) because he hates and despiseth the Light which should lead him to knowledge and understanding of God , and of his ways ; and is it not Justice in God to give you up to the darkness of your own hearts and lust , which thou falsly calls Light , seeing it is your daily exercise to study , p●each & print against the sufficiency of Christ's Light , which people should believe in , and obey , and which is the path of the just , and way to God , out of that darkness which hath blinded your eyes even so far , that you cannot see your own words , much less the Truth of God , as it is manifest unto them that walk in his Light. And in thy next Argument thou sayest , That because the Mysterie of God was hid , and Life and Immortality not brought to light to the Gentiles , therefore they had not a light within them as a sufficient guide to God. Ans. Thou mightest as well have said in plain words , That Christ who was given a Light to the Gentiles , was not able to reveal the mysterie of God , nor bring life and immortality to light , because some were ignorant of it ; but contrary to thy false Argument , Christ was given a Light to the Gentiles , w●ich light did reveal the mysterie of God , life and immortality to them who did receive him ; and those that did not receive him , though he was given for a Light unto them , because they did not receive him , therefore was those things hid , and not because the Light was not sufficient . 1. Argument , Rom. 8.9 . Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ , the same is none of his : Whence thou argues , They have not light within them sufficient to guide them to God who have not the Spirit of God : but every man hath not the Spirit of God ; Ergo. Ans. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withall , 1 Cor. 12.7 . Which manifestation being obeyed is able to lead man to God , so that there is no insufficiency in the Spirit or Light , in which God hath manifested something to every man , and therefor if every man be not guided by it unto God , it is because he doth not sufficiently obey and follow it . 12. Argument , From Matthew 11.27 . John 14.16 . Where thou Argues , they had not a light within them sufficient to guide them to God , to whom the Son did not reveal the Father , who did not go by the Son as the way to the Father , but the Son did not reveal the Father to every man , nor did every man come to Christ , John 1.5.10 . Ergo. Ans. The cause why they had not life , and did not come to the Father , was because they would not come unto him that they might have Life , Joh. 5.40 . and not because his light in them was not sufficient ; for these Jewes did for a season rejoyce in the Light ; which if they had continued in , would have led them to the knowledge of the Father , and of the Son , as those of understanding sees in those Scriptures which thou hast asserted ; and so thus in all thy Arguments to manifest thy Ignorance of the Scripture and of the Light , instead of charging mens guilt of disobedience , thou charges the light of Christ to be insufficient ; for they that did love and receive the light which Christ had enlightned them withall , to them it was given to know the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven ; but to those which did hate , reject and count it insufficient , those things from them was hid , and their rejection was the cause of hiding those things and not the light ; and this may answer the most of thy Arguments , and let thee see how thou stumbles because thou hates the light which should discover unto thee both the cause of knowledge , and of ignorance , and the ground from whence they both arise . In many other of thy Arguments , thou proves nothing thou intendest , but accusing falsly the Quakers , as in the 15 , 16 , 17.21 , 22. Arguments : where thou saist , That they forbid People to sea●●h the Scriptures in those words page 48. Christ saith , Search the S●riptures . Quakers say no , but look to the light within you ; and that their opinion makes a supposed light within each man , a safe rule and guide to each man , and is erronious . Thirdly , That the opinion and pra●●ice of the Quakers are evil , in making every man a Teacher , and makes neealess the Teachers set by God for the work of the Ministry . Fourthly , That their Opinion is impious , and that they make it u●necessary to pray for the Spirit to enlighten mens Eyes i● the knowledge of God. Fifthly , That their Opinion is pernicious , which makes man to lean to his own understanding , be wise in his own Eyes and in his own conceit , and that they bless men in following their own light . Sixthly , That the Quakers place all their Godliness in following their own supposed Light. Ans. The ground of all those Arguments is false , and every particular thing herein charged against the Quakers is false ; for they have not denyed tha● men should search the Scriptures , neither hath their Opinion and practice made every man a Teacher ; Neither is it their Opinion that it is unnecessary to pray for the Spirit to enlighten mens eyes in the knowledge of God , but do pray for it and for our Enemies , so far that their eyes may be enlightned that they might see their own darkness , and then they would not so falsly accuse u● of things that we never affirmed , but was always contrary to , and we never made any man to lean to his own understanding , but do turn men to Christs light , which lets them see their own understandings which is false , and bring● them to the true understanding of Him whom the Father hath sent into the World , which brings them from being wise in their own eyes and in their own conceit ; neither do we blesse men in following of their own light , but we say they are bleswd who follow the light of Christ and walk as he walked : and see never did place any Godlinesse in following our own supposed light , but in Christ who hath really enlightened us do we place all Godlinesse ; and all are ungodly that do not walk in his Light , but hate and despise it , and falsly accuse those that walk in it ; but well may they accuse us to be erroneous and impious for walking in the Light , vvhen they have accused the light it selfe to be but lust and imagination ; but in this they know not what they do , and therefore we pray to God to forgive them , And whereas again we are charg●d Page 47. to make the coming of Christ into the World to be needlesse and uselesse , by saying that he hath enlightneth every man that commeth into the World ; that charge is contrary to the Truth ; for in this we make h●m usefull and needful to all people : Christ was as a Light in the World , and as a Teacher to the Saints of Old , and to Moses who bore his reproach , and to the Prophets which prophesied of him before that in the fulnesse of time he appeared in the similitude of sinfull flesh , of which appearance the Apostles were witnesses ; and so to preach him as a Covenant to the Jews , and as a light to the Gentiles , before he so came into the World , was not an Error ; much less now when he is come and hath so appeared , for us to say that he is the true Light which hath enlightened every man that cometh into the World that every man thtough him might beleeve is not an error , but is the way to Salvation . And whereas several other Arguments is made upon false grounds , as that the supposed light in a man may lead him into a way whose end is death , this only belongs to thy selfe , thou art guilty of it ; for the true Light would have led thee to have spoken Truth , and to have accused no man falsly , and would not have suffered thee to have opposed by plain contradiction Christs Words , nor to have perverted the Scriptures in making them a ground for thy false Arguments ; and so that Argument against thy selfe stands , and that thy supposed light leads into a way whose end is Death . Again thou saist in some of thy Arguments , If every man have a light sufficient to guide him , then there needs no transforming nor renewing , nor putting off the Old Man , nor should be no foolishness , nor need of a Rod of correction , nor need any train up a Child in the way he should go , nor need not learne Childrens Literature or good manners , and other things of the like Nature . Ans. This is as if thou shouldst say , that Christ is come into th● World to Teach , to Redeem , to Renew , and to Restore , and to Re●orm , and to do all these works in them and for them , but they need not believe nor obey , nor Worship , nor put off the old Man , nor Pray , nor Preach , nor Learn , because he is sufficient as to all those things ; but this we say , though Christ and His Light be sufficient to lead men to the Father , and that though thi● Light do shine in the darknesse , and convince man of his evil deeds , yet his mind must be turned unto it to obey and follow it , which is that only which leads to the Father : but though Christ become a Light into the World , and be sufficient and a safe guide , yet none comes to the Father by Him , but those that believe , follow and obey his Light , and do put off the Old Man with his deeds , and be renewed in the inward of their minds , and do deny conformity to the World , and do hear him in all things , and learn of him ; so this our Doctrine shall be approved true unto all that come unto God by Christ. Again John Tombes in page 5. pretending to answer the Quakers Objections ( which was never by them Objected ) goeth about to pervert the Scripture , Luke 17.21 . Behold the Kingdom of God is wi●hin you , saith , To his apprehension , it is more truly rendred among you , so that in his apprehension , he would make a more certain rule and form of words then the Scripture , so in this he doth not answer our Objections , but contradicts Christs words , and to prove his apprehension , he saith , That the Light within each man cannot be meant the Kingdom of God , for the Kingdom of God is a thing that was not before Christs appearance in the flesh , and was taken from the Jews and given to the Gentiles . Ans. Here thou wouldst make people believe strange things , or Preach a new Doctrine which hath not been heard or read of before : thou hast said , That the Word written in the Bible is thy light , but there is not such a Word written in that Bible , that saith that the Kingdom of God was not before Christs appearance in the flesh , but thou may finde it written in the Bible , that his Kingdom is an everlasting Kingdom , Dan. 7. Was not the Kingdom of God before the World was ? was not the Kingdom of God in the time of Enoch , Isaac and Jacob , Abraham , Moses and the Prophets ? And when the Apostles did Preach the Kingdom of God was come nigh unto them , and was at hand , did they not Preach that which was in the beginning ? But herein it is manifest , that thou neither own Scripture Light , nor Scripture Words , but this Doctrine few will believe , that the Kingdom of God was not before Christs appearance in the flesh ; And therefore it is returned back upon thee , that thou mayest see and be ashamed of what thou hast declared from thy darkness , Again in page 55. another Scripture thou goes about to pervert , Col. 1.27 . Christ in you the hope of glory , but thou wilt not have it in you , but to you , and so denieth both the truth of the thing , and the Scripture words ; for the Apostle saith , That this is the riches of the glory of this Mystery among the Gentiles , which is Christ in you , the hope of glory , but against the Mystery and glory of it thou hast set thy self to oppose ; and also that history thou wilt not own to be true , and herein thou art guilty of that whereof thou hast accused others , and herein thou wouldst make it appear to those that would believe thee , that thy false apprehensions is the light of Scripture , and not the Scripture thy light , as before thou said it was . And in the same page 55. thou sayest , It is a meer fantastick delusion , to imagine a Christ in themselves different from that Jesus Christ born of Mary , who is the Saviour of the world . Answ. If so , then thou ownest that Christ as abo●e mentioned is in those that do believe , except thou wilt deny that any Christ is in them , contrary to the Scripture , 2 Cor. 13.5 . and this which thou hast here affirmed , thou and thy brethren will not own , unless you deny what you have formerly preached and printed . Again page 41. thou hast accused Paul falsly , saying , that Paul followed the light within him , and yet he accounted this his great sin , Act. 26.9 . 1 Tim. 1.13 . Answ. Paul in these Scriptures doth not say that he followed the light within him , but he followed his thoughts which led him to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus ; and what he did it was ignorantly in unbelief , and that was his sin , and not following the light within , but if it be sin to follow the light within , why doth Baxter and thou say , that a man should hearken to it , follow it , and obey it . And Baxter saith , that he is no Christian that denies it ; and so here thy reverend brother hath proved thee to be no Christian. Again page 50. thou sayest , If David had had a light within him of it self a sufficient and safe guide to God , he should not have been jealous of his own heart and thoughts , so as to need God to search , know and try him ; but it is otherwise with David , and therefore he knew that he had not a light within him , as a sufficient safe guide to lead him into the way everlasting . Answ. D●vid saith , Psal. 119.11 . Thy word have I hid in my heart , that I might not sin against thee ; so that contrary to what thou hast affirmed , he knew that he had a light within him , which was sufficient to lead him to life everlasting , and this light in him was that which made him jealous of his own heart and thoughts , and let him see that he had need of God to search , prove and try him , lest iniquity should be found in him ; but what Prophet or Apostle is it that can escape thy slanderous Tongue , who affirmeth that the Word of God is not a sufficient guide to lead unto him ? before thou saidst , a supposed light was not sufficient ; but here thou hast accused the word of God with insufficiency , and David that he did not know such a light in him , and so wouldst make him like unto thy self , a giver forth of lyes in writing . Again page 55. thou sayest , The light within each person is by creation , and inward work of the Spirit ; but the Gospel is the w●rd brought to our ears by preachers without us , which is never received by many of those to whom it is preached . Answ. In this thou hast said more of the light within each person then thou hast heard the Quakers say of it ; for thou hast here affirmed , that the light in each person is an inward work of the Spirit , and thou hast made it to be more inward , spiritual , and effectual then thou hast made the Gospel to be ; for the Gospel thou sayest , is but the word brought to your ears without you , and by m●ny never received ; but the light of each person is a work of the Spirit , which is more then words outward to the ear ; so why hast thou so much contended against those who say Christ hath enlightned every man with his light which is spiritual , when as thou not onely confesseth all is enligh●ned , but saith , That each person ha●h a light within by creation and inward work of the Spirit ; but whether thou plead for or against the light in every person , it is but from ignorance and darkness , both concerning the light and the Gospel which is preached in every creature ; and so whether thou own or disown the light in words , it is manifest thou art out of the life of it , and knows not the spiritual work by it ; So these things are written unto thee that thou mayest see thy self , and put thy mouth in the dust , waiting in silence , if so be there may be hope . Again page 65. thou sayest , The Apostle denies mens calling 〈◊〉 the Communion of Gods grace to be universal , 1 Cor. 1.9 , 24 , 26. And again in page 66. saith , The Apostle then commanded every man every where to repent , Act. 14 16. Act. 17.30 . Answ. Herein thou hast contradicted thy self , but yet falsly accused the Apostle ; for he do●h not deny mens calling to the universal grace in the Scriptures mentioned , 1 Cor. 1.9 , 24 , 26. but doth bear witness to their calling which was already come into the obedience of the truth , and so all men every where was called to repent , according to Act. 14. and 16. which is Universal and the free grace of God which bringeth salvation hath appeared unto all men , Tit. 2.11 . by which all is called unto repentance , and to the knowledge of the truth that they might be saved ; which call is universal . Again page 33. thou sayest , Where lust imprisons light , where corrupt affections put out the lamp of truth , there is no entrance of the light of Christ into the soul. Answ. Where then is that light which lust imprisons , and where is that lamp of truth whi●h corrupt affections put out ? if it be not within , and if no light of Christ be entered into the soul , how can it then be imprisoned or put out , if it never was there , nor never shined ? but this is like the rest of thy confusion . Again page 85. thou sayest , Light within you , whatever Quakers tell you , will leave you in perplexity . Answ. They shall be left in perplexity which do not walk in the light which we have spoken of and declared to people , and this is that onely which leadeth out of perplexity into the knowledge of God and unity with him , wherein is the peace and rest of all that in it walk . But where didst thou learn those revilings against the Light , or from what sort of thy diverse Truths doth those words proceed from , seeing thou sayest there is two sorts of Truth ? Metaphysick Truth , and Logick and Moral Truth , and whether is Christ another Truth then those , seeing the Scripture mentioneth no such name as Metaphysick , Logick and Moral Tru●h , and no other Truth do we own then that which the Scripture declareth of Christ to be the Truth , who hath enlightned every man which cometh into the world , which light leadeth them that obey it out of perplexity . Again , page 68. Thou sayest , Let us be wise therefore so to use candles that we do not burn day light . Answ. The light of the day comprehends thee , and sees all thy works and words ; and seest thou hast lost thy wisdom and understanding of the light which the day brings forth , and so though thou light thy candles in foolishness , yet thou cannot burn the day light , although thou strive to do it ; but thou mayest read in the Scripture , that a fool when he holdeth his peace , is counted wise , and he that shutteth his lips , is esteemed a man of understanding , Prov. 17.28 . So if thou hadst learned to be wise thou wouldest have been silent from that which thou hast preached in thy nine Sermons , which is but sparks of thy own kindling , or candles of thy own lighting , the end whereof is to burn day-light which is arisen , and hath shined forth and cannot be quenched by all thy candles , doctrines , nor arguments ; for it is as impossible for thee to quench or hinder the shining of that light which is now risen , as for thee to light a candle , and thereby quench the light of the Sun in the natural day ; and so that Scripture is true unto thee before cited , for if thou hadst been silent , people would have esteemed thee a man of more understanding , although inwardly thou hadst been the same , but not outwardly so made manifest as thou art . Again , thou tellest us of thy enjoyments , page 32. saying , that the best enjoyments or best habitation here , is no better then lying upon a bed of Thorns , or on the Mast of a Ship , where winds , storms , and perpetual tossings take away all rest . Answ. Then thou dost not yet enjoy Christ , neither art built upon the Rock which cannot be moved , neither art thou come to the Faith which they that believe are entered into his rest , and so thou hast truly numbered thy self among the wicked , which are as a raging Sea that casts up mire and dir● , and so art in the perpetual tossings , and so art such a one as the Apostle speaks of , beguiling unstable souls , for how canst thou bring any to the enjoyment of Christ , when thou thy self art a stranger to that experience , and how canst thou establish others , when thou thy self art so unstable to be tossed with every wind as the Mast of a ship ; And what wouldst thou gather People unto ? To a bed of Thorns , or to the top of the Mast of a Ship , where they should enjoy nothing but continuall tossings ; therefore seeing thy self to be in that condition , cease from opposing of that Truth which brings People to their true rest , where they may lie down in peace and nothing make them afraid , ( as they cannot do upon the top of a Mast ) and which Truth brings them to be as Mount Zion which cannot be moved , nor their rest taken away , and who are not as Children tossed too and fro with every Wind of Doctrine , which hath been Preached by such as have seemed to be somewhat in words and pretences , but when tryed is found nothing but Emptiness and Vanity . An Answer to Richard Baxters Queries . 1. Query , HOw comes it to pass that all Nations that never heard the Gospel are utterly void of faith in Christ , when the Nations that have the Gospel do generally know him more or less . Ans. The Apostle saith , they have all heard , but they have not obeyed the Gospel , Rom. 10.16 18. And the reason why all Nations are void of Faith in Christ , is because they have not obeyed and believed that Gospel which is Preached in every Creature , and the Nations which have that which thou calls the Gospel , to wit , the letter , are as void of Faith in Christ as those which have it not , and as void of his knowledg ; for the Gospel is the Power of God , Rom. 1.16 . And it is the Light of the glorious Gospel shining in the Heart , which gives the knowledge of God in the Face of Jesus Christ , which light while thou opposest the Gospel from thee is hid , and the eye blinded which should see it . 2. Que. Why did not the World believe in Christ , even Generally before his coming , if reason was then a sufficient light ? Ans. This is an Ignorant and unlearned question , who hath said that reason was then a sufficient light ; or who doth say that reason now is a sufficient light , but thy self ; but the reason why the World did not believe in Christ both befo●e and since his coming , was because they hated the Light in which they should have believed , and was despiteful against the spirit of Grace , and all its appearances , as thou and Tombs art at this time . Qu. 3 Why did Christ preach himself while he was on Earth , if the people had all sufficient light before ? Ans. He preached that they might believe and obey the Light which they had , which was sufficient , that thereby they might be made children of the Light , John 12.36 . & to turn their minds to the Kingdom of God which was within them , Luk. 17.21 . For this end was the preaching of Christ , and the Apostles , Pastors and Teachers of his Church ; for although Christ was given a Light both to Jews and Gentiles , and this Light shined in their hearts , yet their minds were to be turned to it ; and they obey and follow it as the way to salvation ; otherwise it was their condemnation . Qu. 4 , & 5. Why did he send his Apostles to preach through the world , if the people had sufficient light before ? And why did he set Pastors and Teachers , if all have a sufficient light in them ? Aasw. As the Father sent Christ into the World , so did Christ send those Apostles , Pastors and Teachers into the World , Acts 26.18 . He was sent to turn them from darknesse to Light , and from the power of Satan unto God ; so that although there was a Light which was sufficient , and the power of God was sufficient , yet they must be turned to it , and obey it , or else they were not saved by it ; but Christ was a sufficient Light given of the Father for a light & a guide to the Jews and Gentiles , before the Apostles preached him ; but thy questions are as if thou shouldest say , If Christ or his Light be sufficient , and if he did come into the World both to Jews and Gentiles , why need any preaching , or bid others to obey and follow him , seeing he is sufficient ? the Apostles did not preach another Light than that which had already appeared before they preached , and that which had enlightened every man come into the World ; and they said that all the Nations of them that are saved , must walk in his Light ; and so though the Light was come , and also preached , yet none by it was saved , but they which did receive , believe and walk in it , and for that end was it preached in the World. Qu. 6. Why do the Quakers ge up and down teaching man their own Doctrines , if all men have sufficient light already ? Ans , The ground of the Query is false ; for the Quakers do not go up and down teaching men their own doctrines , but do teach men the Way of God plainly , and do instruct the ignorant , and him that is out of the Way , and do turn men to that Light which is sufficient to lead them to God , and which will lead them from all Hirelings who make merchandize of souls , bodies and estates of men for their dishonest gain ; and this Light of Christ ( by which men are enlightened ) doth justifie us in our going up and down in teaching men to deny all ungodliness , and all the Worlds lusts with which many are defiled , and in which many are kept by those who deny the Light , and speak evil of it . Qu. 7. Why do they cry out against us as being in darkness , when all m●n have sufficient light within them ? Ans. You are in darkness , because you hate the Light ; and while you do so , your deeds are evil , and we cannot but cry against you , as Christ and his Ministers did against those who were haters of the light ; and what thougst the l●ght be sufficient ? that 's nothing to your justification , while you rebel against it , And you shall know that the Light is sufficient to condemn you , if you do not obey it , to be led thereby unto life eternal . Qu. 8. Will they pray for more Light and Grace , or not ? if not , they are impiously proud ; if yea , thin it seems they have not yet Light and Grace sufficient . Ans. The Lord said unto Paul , My Grace is sufficient for thee ; and yet Paul prayed for more grace , and was not impiously proud , as thou hast charged us ; and the Apostle said , 2 Cor. 9.8 . God is able to make all grace abound towards you , that ye always having all sufficiency , may abound , &c. So that these Corinthians had sufficiency of grace , and yet were to abound , and they were not impiously proud in praying for more . And though this to thee be a Mysterie , yet to us it is plain truth ; and vve are no more guilty in this then the Saints vvere . 9. Que. Whereas they say the light within is sufficient if obeyed , the question is , whether it be sufficient to make men obey it ? Ans. The light is sufficient , and hath sufficient power in it to make men obedient if received and obeyed , yet by the power of self no man either receives or obeys it , but the command is of it , & the power from it by which men do believe and obey ; so that though this be a Mysterie and Parable to the Ignorant , yet it is plain to him that understands the leadings and power which is in the Light. 10. Que. But how can any light be sufficient to reveal that which is not manifested by it , or by any Revelation that doth accompany it ? No l●ght nor Revelation among the Heathens in America doth tell them that Christ was incarnate , died , rose , ascended , or intercedeth for us ; or is the King , Priest or Teacher of the Church , or wi●l raise the dead , and judge the world ; how then can their Light be sufficient to help them to the belief of this ? I think it 's past controversie that no man hath sufficient grace for salvation till his last breath , &c. Ans. The ground of this Query is ignorance , to ask how can any Light be sufficient to reveal that which is not manifested by it ; to manifest is to reveal ; but for thee to say , how can it reveal that which is not revealed by it , is non-sence : And whoever hath affi●med that the light hath revealed that which is not manifested by it ; but this light which thou so hates , the least measure of it being received is sufficient to manifest thy darkness and foolish questions , and to manifest thy Ignorance of the things of God ; and the Light of Christ is the same in America which it is in England , and those Hea●hens in America who love the Light of Christ and walk in it , although they have not the Scriptures , doth know more of Christ , his Life , Death , Intercession and Teaching , then those Heathens in England , which have the Scripture of those things , yet hate and despise the Light which gives the Knowledge of Christ , and of his work of Salvation , and those Heathens which fear God and work Righteousness shall be accepted of God and counted Christians , when those called Christians which neither fear God nor work Righteousness , but despise his light and deny the sufficiency of it , shall be accounted Heathens . And whereas thou thinkest its past controversie , that no man hath sufficient Grace for Salvation till his last breath ; by this thou wilt make it without controversie that the Scripture is false , and not to be believed ; which Scripture if thou want , what hast thou more then the Heathens in America , but rather a great deal less : Had not the Apostle Paul sufficient Grace when the Lord said , My Grace is sufficient for thee , 2 Cor. 12.9 . And had not the Corinthians sufficiency of Grace , 2 Cor. 3.5 . whose sufficiency was in God , and from God to them made manifest ; and had not they sufficiency in all things , 2 Cor. 9.8 . And was Paul with those Corinthians at the last breath , when those things were spoken ; but thy thoughts have deceived thee , in thinking such a thing to be past controversie ; for thou must be both controverted and contradicted , while thou thus in thy extreams and floods of fury , sets thy self against the Truth , as it is made manifest in us , and also in the Scriptures . Again thou saist , Thou thinks it is time for men that have any sence of the common interest of Christianity & Reformation , to lay by these contentions that hav brought you so low , & almost made you a prey to the common Romish Adversaries , ( saying ) the Lord grant it be not too late . Ans. Art thou now sensible of the emptiness in , and the disadvantage which thou gets by thy contention ; and thou may well see it , if thou be but sober , how the Romish adversaries may have advantage against thee , condemning that in them which thou allowest in thy self ; and thou mayest have a ground of jealousie in thee that it is too late ; But as for an interest in Christianity and Refor●ation , thou art far from it , who art striving to keep people from the Light , by which people should be reformed , and by which they should be led into the life of Christianity . And although thou confessest , that you are brought low by contention , and by too eager disputation , yet again thou exalts thy self and thy Brethren , as if you were above Christ or his Apostles in the Work of the Ministry ; for thou saist , How few did Christ convert , that spake as never man spake ? And how many places did the Apostles preach in , where they converted not one for a hundred that some of you see converted in one Parish . And thus thou defames Christ and the Apostles Doctrine , to set up thy own ; bu● if thou do not as well deny the Scriptures ; as Christ and the Apostles Minstry , thou mayest read how that three thous●nd were converted at one Sermon ; and If thou truly consider and try thy own Work , thou wilt see that all the Sermons which ever thou hast preached , hath not converted one in thy Parish into the State of a new creature , where all old things are done away , and all things are become new , and so thy boasting thereby may be ended . Again thou saist , That you do not fear that quaking should become the Nations Religion , we know those squibs will soon be out . Ans. If it were but a squib that would so soon be out , what need you make so much a do about it , and bring forth so many floods , and draw dry so many wells to quench it ? And what is the cause of such jealousies in your hearts as sometime to fear that it 's too late to strive against it ? And why are you so afraid that it should have its liberty in the Nation , if you think it will be so soo● out ? but it is your constant practice to speak one thing , and to think another ; for this which you say is but a squib , will be as an eve●lasting burning , that none shall be able to quench it ; and it is the powerful appearance of the Lord from Heaven ; and who may abide the day of his coming ? or who may stand when he appears ? Not those who have contemned his Light , and reproached the children of it ; not those who preach for filthy lucre , who serve not the Lord Jesus Christ , but their own bellies , who make merchandize of souls for dishonest gain ; but he that walketh righteously , and speaketh uprightly , he that despiseth the gain of oppression , that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes , that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood , and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil , such a one loveth the appearance of him who is come a Light into the World , and loveth the children that walk in his Light ; for he that loveth him that doth beget , loveth also those that are begotten of him , who walk in his Light ; but the Wicked shall become silent in darkness ; and many who have used their tongues , and said , Come Lord Jesus , come quickly , shall not be able to stand when he appears , nor to abide the day of his coming , which to them that hate him , is destruction ; but to them that love him , is everlasting salvation . And this is the day of his appearance , in which blessed are they that are not offended in him . Truth and Innocency , Clearing its self and its Children ; Being declared in a few words , which in this day of striving , and of the Lords power , is brought forth in many , aga●nst the deceveable ways of the Unrighteous , which abound and is as Mountains in every Region , Countrey , and County : But the Lord is now risen , to make them plain , that People may see that they are but earth , and may feed upon the top of them . Also in this Treatise is a Mountain of confusion , lyes and slanders , proceeding from one Jonathan Clap●am , a Priest , made manifest , which swelled ( as though it had been no Earth ) against the Lords Mountain , and against the way of his Holiness , which now the holy Seed which the Lord hath blessed with spiritual blessings , tread upon , as upon the Mire in the low Valleys , which is dryed up ; and with it they are not defiled ; for the feet of them that bring glad tydings of the Gospel of peace , tread upon the top of those Mountains ; for Mountains were never seen till the Light appeared , which is now brought forth , making all things manifest . Given forth from the light of Truth , which answereth the Truth in every man , and continues the offence of the Cross to the deceit in every man , R. H. To the Reader . In the night all the beasts of the field raven ; and now many of them are come out of their Dens , into which they must be driven again ; for the Lord is now coming , and his Power with him , and his day is appearing to deliver his prisoner , which hath long been in the Pit covered with darkness ; and now all the Powers of Hell and Death gather themselves together that they may be broken to pieces against the Heir of Gods Inheritance , which is not possible should be kept always under the power of death ; & as surely as they rise up against the Lord , so surely shall they be broken to pieces ; for the arm & power of the Lord is with us , & no inchantment formed against us can prosper ; for the Lord hath stretched forth his and touched our lips , and put his words into our Mouths , and in this day hath made us a defenced City , and an Iron Pillar , and a Brazen Wall against the whole Land , even all both Priests and People , who deny the Light of the Lord , to be the way of life , and not only against those gross Priests of the Nation , who in their covetousness after money , piercing th●mselves through with many hurtful lusts , having erred from the faith , and having exceeded the false Prophets in other generations , for their ill savour is so come up before the Lord , that he will cause even their own breath to devour them , and their own confusions to make them ashamed . But we have also to war against spiritual wickedness in high places , and the powers of darkness under the form of godliness , and the Beast which is risen out of the Earth , which hath Horns like a Lamb , but is as a Lyon ; but with one Light are they seen , and with one Power are they judged , and the secret counsel of the Lord is the strength of them that fear him , in which we reign over all the ways of unrighteousness , and works of darkness , in what appearance soever they come . And now to thee Jonathan Clapham , and the rest of thy company , art thou not ashamed to go under the Name of a Minister of Christ , and take Tythes , and sue men for Tythes ; and thou to number thy self , and take hand with them that are persecuting and casting slanders upon the innocent ? And dost thou set forth thy Refuge of lyes , and dost not thou think that all people that read thy book made up with lyes , will not see it , that fear God , and know that will return upon thy pate , had there been no Reply to it ? The day hath d●clared thee ; a witness shall rise up in thee against thee and thy lyes ; that is the Word of the Lord God to thee : What , you that be call'd Independents , now should be setting up your Refuge of lyes , and publish them to the chief Magistrates of the Nation , they will not refuge under them , who be under the shadow of the Almighty , who do believe and obey the Truth , and fear God! And what , you that be called Independents , sue men for Tythes , cast men in prison for tythes ! O shame ! cover your lips and faces ; and you are they , the wicked Seeds-men , to sow your lyes abroad , and to proclaim thy self a lyar to all the Nation , to say that the Quakers deny prayer ; dost thou not think all the Nation will see thee and you to be lyars , who have procla●med your selves to be lyars , in saying the Quakers be Enemies ●o prayer . We are satisfied , and a thousand of people , concerning you , your lyes and slanders , and do see into what you run , and do beseech the Lord to forgive you , for you have a lamentable cup to drink ; for you do n●t know what you have done in this great day of the Lord , and what you have stood against ; and is it not a shame for thee and you that are called Independents , to take Tythes of them , and to sue them up to London for tythes , that you do no work for ? and to cast them into prison that cannot put into your mouths , whom you do not labour for ? Was ever such a company of Ministers of unrighteousness known in any age ? And is not all this your fighting against the Saints , and opening your mouths against them , because they cannot put into your mouths , and give you tythes and filthy lucre , and gifts and rewards , and hire . To demand hire of them that have not hired you , is not this unrighteous ? You know not what spirit you are of , nor what Cup you are to drink of ; the Lord forgive you . And as for thy Book , all people that fear God , will be satisfied with reading of it . And I tell thee , and all them that are called Independents in the Nation , that are suing , persecuting , and imprisoning unto death for tythes , that there is something raised up in the hearts of the people , that will not believe lyes ; and many of them are so far satisfied , that they know that your Books are but envy and malice , and stuft full of lyes and prejudice against the innocent , and the Truth ; and some of you have a mad blind zeal in persecuting and imprisoning to death ; but the Lord will be glorified in your folly ; who will carry his Lambs in his Arms ; and the more you write and speak against Truth , the more your blindness , madness aod folly , and lyes , and dislike to the people that fear God appears ; and your speaking against truth , hath advantaged truth against your folly and madness ; but out of the mouths of babes and sucklings hath the Lord ordained strength , and the Lord and his high hand is with them . Art not thou and you such as the Apostle spoaks of , that serve not the Lord Jesus Christ , but your own bellies , who mind Earthly things , the evil Beasts the Apostles speak of , the slow bellies ? Have not you all stained your selves with this ? Have not your fruits declared your Earthly minds ? and worse than Balaam , who sue them for tythes you do no work for ? doth not this load the innocent ? Are you them that keep the Gospel without charge ? O hide your selves for shame ; the day is appearing that the evil beasts shall go into Dens , and men shall go to their labour ; but ye keep men from their labours , while you are abroad ravening in the Earth : Are you them that keep the Gospel without charge , that now call your selves Ministers , that are suing people for tythes , and if they w●ll not give it you , cast them into prison ? Now are you not clearly proved to be them that the Apostle bids us turn from , that are covetous , and make merchandize of the people , which have the form of godliness , but deny the power , which the Apostle bids us turn from , which teaches for handfuls of Barley and Corn , which have the love of money , which is the root of all evil , which while you have coveted after , you have erred from the Faith , and pierced your selves through with many hurtful lusts , which the man of God is to flye , as you may read in Timothy and Titus , who are given to filthy lucre , and strikers , and the covetous are disapproved to be Ministers of Christ. Now its manifest that you are given to filthy lucre , strikers and covetous , and do teach for filthy lucre , and will have lucre of them you do not teach to . Your glory is defacing , and your beauty staining ; God will stain it , whose end is teaching for filthy lucre , you will force people to give you filthy lucre , and do not teach them : 'T is a shame to speak of the things you do , how such peoples goods are spoiled who cannot give you Tythes or filthy lucre , which know in their consciences you to be the false Teachers for filthy lucre ; take a●ay that your preaching would quickly down ; & this makes you so mad and enrage● , like a Lyon that wants his prey , against them that put not into your mouths . Consider , there is a check come upon you ; to the Light in all your Consciences I speak , which Christ hath enlightened you withall , which lets you see your Saviour if you love it ; and if you hate it , it 's your condem●ation . And so I am clear of your blood , be it upon your own heads . And as for William Jenkins Priest in Black Fryars in London who put forth his Epistle for the vindication of Clapham's Book , building his hopes upon it , that it would be of singular service to the establishing of those that were wandering , and against us ; now ●t is turned to the contrary ; for it is of singular service unto us for making your deceit manifest unto the people from your own principles ; and so those who consider the things therein published , & the answer to them , w●l labor to find a better foundation to build their faith upon ; & they will see that they have long enough taken your words for a ground of their faith , which now the truth hath destroyed , that so every one may be brought to the true Foundation , him that hath enlightened every man that cometh into the world ; & this is my desire to the Lord for those that read it , that with the measure of God in them ( which hath no end but that God may be glorified ) they may both read , understand , & then they wil see what the wisdom of God is hid from , & what it is revealed unto , & the nature of the fruit of every plant will be known ; for the fruit of the righteous is a tree of life ; and he that winneth souls is wise . For this end have I written , to cut off the occasions of stumbling from the weak , that the way of life may be kept clear to all who desire to walk in it , and in all them that come to the way of life to walk in it , answering that of God in them , is my labour answered , and my reward received . R. H. MY Kingdom is not of this World , neither do I receive honor from men , saith the Son of God ( John 18.36 . ) who treadeth the Wine-press alone without the City , ( Isa. 9.6 . ) and of the people there is none to help him ; and the Government is upon his shoulders , who is the Prince of the children of Light ; and none of the Rulers of the darkness of this World , is any Officer in his Kingdom , which stands in righteousness ; neither have they who be not guided with his Light , any power from him eit●er to bind or loose in his Kingdom ; but they who be in his Light , and in it walk , who be the Saints of the most high God , this honor have all they , to bind their Kings in chains , and their Nobles in fetters of Iron ; and they be in the power , which is over the power of the Rulers of this World ; and such do witness Christ to be their Mediator between God and man , even the man Christ Jesus , 1 Tim. 2.5 . who thought it no robbery to be equal with God , Phil. 2.6 , 7. yet took upon him the form of a servant , who said , I and my Father are one ; and of him the Father gave record , and the record that God gave of his Son , is eternal life , and this life is in his Son , and this life is the Light of men with which all men are enlightened , John 1.4 . and he hath enlightened every man that cometh into the World. He preached to the World with Authority , that every man in him might believe ; and they that believe might not perish , but have everlasting life in themselves ; and they that believed not in him who had enlightened them , was condemned already ; and here was authority in his doctrine , which the Pharisees had not in their doctrine , Joh. 3.18 . for they knew not the Light which Christ had enlightened every one withal , which they that believed not in it , were already condemned with it ; and so their doctrine stood not in that which did save and condemn , and so it was not in the authority of the Spirit , as the doctrine of the Teachers of the World is now , out of the authority , not turning people from darkness to light , which if they do not believe , is condemned already . And a doctrine is crept into the World , which is pernicious and damnable , being against the Light , and is with the Light condemned . Of which sort is one Jonathan Clapham of Wramplingham in Norfolk , whose violence and rage is such again●t the Truth , that he hath not spared even the foundation of it , having charged both the Father , Son and Holy Ghost falsly , as I shall make it appear . And he hath also falsly accused the Apostle Peter , and the Church of Corinth , in his Book called A full discovery and confutation of the wicked and damnable doctrine of the Quakers . But he ha●h more discovered hims●lf than us , and more confuted himself than us , as will appear in that which followeth . As first , in his Epistle directed to the Protector , the honor which God will not give to another than Christ , hath he given to another from Christ , and so denied the Power and Work of the Son of God as Mediator , saying ; That the Magistrate is an Officer of Jesus Christ as Mediator , in his Political Kingdom . And he saith also in the same Epistle , That the Magistrate must not be an Officer in the spiritual Kingdom of his Church . To which I answer , Christ hath not a Political and a Spiritual Kingdom ; for the Kingdom of Christ the Heir of God , is but one , which stands in righteousness ; My Kingdom is not of this World , saith Christ , John 18 36. Now Clapham confesseth , That the Magistrate is no Officer of Christ's spiritual Kingdom , of his Church . Now to say that Christ hath a spiritual Kingdom , and a Kingdom of Policy , or Political Kingdom , is blasphemy against the Son of God , and wil be taken notice of by the higher Powers . And to say , That the Magistrate is an Officer of Jesus Christ as Mediator , is blasphemy also ; for what Magistrate in this Nation , or what Priest or people ( besides thee ) dare own any to be joined with Christ as Mediator ? Was there ever any such a thing heard from any that professe to know the Scripture , to tell of Christ having a Political Kingdom , in which the Magistrate must be an Officer , but not in the spiritual Kingdom of his Church ? Then why dost thou so often in thy Book press the Magistrate to exercise his Power to defend the Church , as thou callest it ? This thy confusion I lay open for the peoples sake , that they may be wiser than their Teachers . Again , the Priest saith , That Christ is the eternal Son of God , distinct from the Father eternally , &c. And , that the Spirit was distinguished from the Father and Son from eternity ; as in page 17. of his Book ; and that there is three Substances , and but one Divine Being . Ans. Here thou hast shewed thy self to be brutish in thy knowledge , and to have no more understanding than a Beast which perisheth . Therefore let all People take notice , that Priest Clapham hath exhorted to try mens doctrines by the Scripture ; therefore by the Scriptures he is charged to prove any such thing , as that the Son of God is distinct from the Father eternally , or that the Spirit was distinguished eternally from both the Father and the Son. Now this I also affirm , that the Devil which did not abide in the Truth , he is separated and distinguished from the Father eternally ; but so is not the eternal Son of God , for he is in him , John 17.11 . John 17.21 , 22. And again I say , False Prophets and Hirelings are from the beginning , and from Eternity distinguished from the Father and the Son ; but so is not the Spirit of Truth : So I leave it to that of God in all people , that with it they may see and know which to believe ; for Christ saith , I and my Father are one ; and he is not Christ without God. Therefore that damnable doctrine is denied , which saith , That Christ the Eternal Son of God is distinguished from the Father eternally . For few in this Nation are so blind ( besides Priest Clapham ) as either to affirm or believe such a thing ; or that there is three Subsistences , and but one being : Is not a Subsistence a Being ? Therefore if any other of the Priesthood in Norfolk have joined with Clapham in his Book , or do own him in these things , cover your faces together , and be ashamed that your impudency and blindnesse do not lead you any more to blaspheme . Again , Clapham saith concerning the soul , in pag. 21 ▪ That the soul came indeed from God , but was not of the Being of God ; and that the soul is humane : And when I asked him , Whether the soul was not immortal ? He said , Yea , Humane and Immortal were both one . To this I answer . Ans. Wo is unto that people whose Leader is a fool , blind and ignorant of God , of the Son of God , and of the soul of man , & of the Scriptures what they speak concerning these things Now if humane and immortal be both one , then every man that is come into the World , hath a humane body , then the bodies of all men that are come into the World , are immortal as well as the soul. But for your sakes who are led by such , I say , The first Adam was made a living soul , the second Adam was made a quickening spirit , 1 Cor 15.45 . And you all have a Light from the second Adam , with it to see what the soul is , which was made living , and how again by Christ the quickening Spirit , it comes to be restored into the same Life ; and with the Light of Christ you will see the soul , and see the Life which from Christ is manifest to quicken it up to the living God ; and so then you will know the Scriptures , and the power of God , and that the Scriptures speak not of a humane soul. Now the Ministers of Christ which are sent to turn people from darkness to l●ght , and from the power of a Satan unto God , they are to watch over the souls of those who are turned to the Light ; therefore you all in the Light wait to knovv the soul , and know the power of God which raiseth it up out of the death , and then you will be wiser than your Teachers , as David was ; and then you wil not come short of the promises which the Father hath promised , even the sure mercies of David . So in the Light all who wait upon God , come to the knowledge of the Son of God , and of the Soul , which is to be watched over , and then you come to that which is sure , even to the knowledge as David did , over all your Teachers ; and so you wil come to know the key of David , which will open unto you that which is sealed up from your Teachers , and so come to know the one shepherd , and the one sheepfold , and the green pastures as David fed in ; and then you wil not need the Priests meanings , being wiser then they , you having the key of knowledg , which they and the Lawyers have lost , as Christ hath said , Matth. 23 13. shutting up the Kingdom of Heaven against men , and from men now , as the Pharisees did then ; so that you need not say , there were such then ; but where are there now any such ? I shall shew you one ; as John Clapham in the 37. page of his Book saith , That Heaven is not to be enjoyed vvhile vve be in the flesh here . Novv see vvhether he hath not shut it up from all men vvhile they are here : But Christ vvho vvas annointed of the Father to preach the Gospel to the poor , said not so ; for he said unto his Disciples , Blessed are ye poor in spirit , for yours is the Kingdom of Heaven , Luke 6.20 Mat. 5 3. it was theirs , and they did enjoy it ; neither did Christ shut it from the Pharises , but said unto them , The Kingdom of Heaven is within you , Luke 17.21 . And if they had believed his words , they might have enjoyed and been Heirs of it , as the believers were . And the Ministers of Christ were to preach as they went , saying , The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand ; and so they were not to shut it up from men , as the Hypocrites did and false Teachers , which say , It cannot be enjoyed while men are here . And here it appears that they shut up the Kingdom against men , and neither enter in themselves , nor suffer others , Matth. 23.13 . for if they entered in themselves , then they could not deny but that it might be enjoyed . And here is the Scripture fulfilled , Matt. 13.19 . they shut up the Kingdom of Heaven against men , saying , None can enjoy it here ; but Heaven is God's Throne , and the Kingdom of Heaven is within you ; and so here as God hath said , I will dwell in them , and walk in them , and they shall be my people , and I will be their God. And the Seed of the Kingdom was sown , and was reaped amongst the Churches , and it was in them ( that would not enter in it themselves , nor suffer others ) as a grain of Mustard-seed , and in others it was as Leaven hid in three measures of Meal . And so the Kingdom was preached , and the Gospel in every creature , and there were parables of the Kingdom , and the World had it in the Parables in them ; but they that did believe , had it in them , in the power , in the power , out of the parable : He that hath an ear , let him hear what the power speaks , then shall be witnessed that vvhich is written both of the Povver and of the Kingdom . Again , the said Clapham hath charged God and Christ falsly in his Book , as that Christ dwells in his people tvvo vvays ; first by his special spiritual presence . Secondly , By mystical union , and that is more than the former ; bringing this comparison , That one may dwell in a House , and have no union with it ; and saith , That God dvvells in the Heavens , but hath no union vvith them ; and that the union betvven God and believers cannot be comprehended by the Saints here as in the 24 ●h . page of his Book . Ans. Now let all take notice , and with the measure that God hath given you , to judge whether Christ can dwell in his people by his special presence , and have no unity with them , as he hath affirmed . And again , judge whe●her a mystical union be more then his special presence , as he hath affi●med . And again , consider that Heaven is God's Throne and the place of his rest . And whether God can dwell in the Heavens , and have no unity with them , with his own Throne , and with the place of his rest . And consider whether there was ever such a doctrine preached or believed among the sons of men from Abel unto this day ; there is no record of such a Doctrine , neither in the Scriptures , Histories , Heathens , Pagans , nor others ; therefore it is now fit to be recorded or put in Chronicle , that all may see what a doctrine is crept into the World , and that all may see that Night is come upon all such Prophets , that they have no vision nor knowledge of God nor his wayes . And this is the man that hath set himself to oppose and gainsay the truth , and is a daily reproacher of those that walk in it , yet professeth himself to be a Minister of Christ ; and those whose hearts are upright towards God , is he reviling , comparing them to Papists , Hereticks , Scribes and Pharises , Indians , and such like ; but to none of those in these things before-mentioned , neither to Scribe , Pharisee , Pope , Turk , Indian , or Alcaron , can he be compared ; for they have been all restrained by something of God in them , from writing so blasphemously against God , and Christ , and the Holy Ghost , the Soul , Heaven and Union , and the Saints , as he hath done : And so this is another Gospel than that which was preached by Christ and his Apostles , and so by the Spirit of God to be accursed for ever . And whereas he saith , That the union between God and believers , cannot be comprehended by the Saints here , he charges a lye upon the Saints , and speaks contrary to the Scriptures , 1 Joh. 1.7 . 1 Joh. 4.15 . 1 Joh. 5.20 . for the Saints did witnesse union with God here ; for he that sanctified , and they that are sanctified , were one ; they said they were of God , and the whole World lyeth in wickedness ; & as he is , so are we in this present World ; & they comprehend with all Saints the heighth , and length and the breadth of the love of God , while they are in the world . Now whoever would have believed it , that the teachers in England had been so blind , or durst have spoken so contrary to the Scriptures ? they professing them so much to be their rule , and learning so long , and studying so much to get the Letter of them , but now is found both out of the Letter and Life ; but now the day of God is risen in his peoples hearts , and they are seen to be such before their books come forth : and now that which they were judged to be before they published themselves in print , comes forth ; that all the world may see that the judgment of God is true from his servants , upon them , and that all the Rulers of the Nation may see that such are not fit to be held up , but be cried against ; and if any should by a Law give such the tenth parts of mens estates , they may expect that by the righteous Law of God ten parts of theirs may be taken away and given to strangers ; so if any people maintain this doctrine , they maintain that which the curse of God comes upon , and if they come not out from it , will be partakers of the plague . And again , as concerning Hell , Clapham saith , that men are not in Hell while they are upon earth . And here is another lye . Answ. The Prophet said while he was upon earth , thou hast redeemed my soul out of hell ; and Jonah said , Out of the belly of hell cryed I unto thee , and so the believers doctrine was contrary to Claphams ; for they knew both heaven and hell while they were upon earth , and a redeeming out of the one into the other by Jesus Christ. Again , he accuseth Peter , saying , that he speaks of the divine Nature being communicated to the Saints , but understands divine graces . Answ. The Apostle doth not speak one thing and understand another as the Priests do , for he speaks with the Spirit , and with understanding , and knows how to divide the word of God aright , who spoke unto them that had escaped the corruption , which is in the world through lust , and knew what it was to be partakers of the divine nature ; but herein the wickedness of this Priest is manifest , who would keep people from being made partakers of the divine Nature , and would shut up the kingdom of heaven from men while they are upon earth . Again , he accuseth the Corinthians in the 33. page of his book , to be the ancient Hereticks who were baptized for the dead . Ans. Those who were baptized for the dead was no Hereticks , neither did they deny the resurrection of the dead , though Paul said , How say some among you , that there is no Resurrection of the dead ? yet he did not call those that were baptised for the dead , Hereticks ; for those that were baptised for the dead and stood in jeopardy every hour , did believe the resurrection of the dead , and did wait for it , and did not deny it as Clapham saith , who hath proceeded on in his book , with many of the like false accusations against us also : but it is a small matter for us to be judged by such a one , for herein is but Christs words fulfilled , As they have done unto me , so shall they do unto you : for neither Christ nor the Apostles , nor the Church of God hath escaped his accusation ; for ( Luk. 6.26 . ) Wo unto you , saith Christ , when all men speak well of you , for so did they of the false Prophets ; but blessed are you when men shall speak all manner of evil against you , falsly for my names sake , for great shall your reward be in heaven : now though against us all manner of evil be spoken falsly in the Book before mentioned , yet in truth do we stand out of it all , and over it all , and our accuser is found in the evil , and vve clear . And as for the 13. Sect. wherein he hath wearied himself for very vanity , hath he proved nothing against us , but against himself ; in which he hath said that we are enemies to the holy Scriptures , and deny Christ come in the flesh , also his death and resurrection , and that we have said that Christs flesh perished , and that we own not the man Christ in the Heavens , as pag. 11. and chargeth us to say , that he did not ascend into heaven , is not at the right hand of God , shall not come to judge the world . pag. 12. Again , Whereas Clapham saith we deny prayer , the Lords Supper , and Water-baptism , and giving of thanks at meals , and singing of Psalms . Ans. This is false , as his own writing and confession will witness against him , which in a former Letter said , that I prayed three times at one Meeting , and now in this book saith we deny prayer . Here confusion is grown into impudency , and lyes are made his proofs . Again , he saith we deny the ●ords Supper , yet confesseth we own eding on Christs flesh : Now Christ saith , Except ye eat my flesh , and drink my blood , ye have no life in you . And this is his Supper , in eating of which the creature hath life in himself . Therefore fly from idolatry ; I speak unto wise men , judge what I say ; the cup of blessing which we bless , is the Communion of the blood of Christ ; and the bread which we break , is the Communion of the body of Christ : For we being many are one bread and one body , for we are all partakers of that one bread , 1 Cor. 10.14 , 15 , 16 , 17. For the bread of God is he that came down from Heaven , and giveth life unto the World , John 6.33 . Then said they unto him , Lord , evermore give us this bread ; and Jesus said unto them , I am the bread of life , he that cometh to me shall never hunger , and he that believeth on me shall never thirst , John 6.34 , 35. I am the living bread which came down from heaven , if any man eat of this bread he shall live for ever ; and the bread that I will give is my flesh , which I will give for the life of the world v. 51. But the Jews could not belive this , neither can this Priest , but saith we own fe●ding on Christs flesh , but deny his Supper , and so as blind as they : But by the life which we receive in eating of his flesh , and drinking of his bloud , are we manifest to be of those that feed at his Table , and cannot have communion at the Table of Devils , as the Church of God could not , 1 Cor. 10.21 . Again , He saith that we own baptism with the spirit , but deny baptism with water : I answer , Who come to the baptism with the spirit into one body , they are come to the one baptism which the Saints witnessed , not laying again the doctrine of baptism , which wa● several , but witnessing the one the substance of the other , which was necessary to salvation ; & so all those things in which the substance was signified , whether circumcision or water , is not denied in their time and place ; when the obedience in them was from the command of the spirit , and not from tradition ; but people now in the ignorance of God and his ways take up things by tradition , being both out of the command , and out of the substance ; and such deny the substance where it is witnessed : & as for this Priest Clapham , he hath never ministred water baptism as it was ministred when it was a doctrine from heaven ; for there is not one in all his Congregation that had first received the holy Ghost , nor believed in Christ before he baptised them with water , and so both the substance and the figure is denied in him : so that in that in which he would accuse another without ground , is he upon good ground found guilty . And as for denying to give thanks , that is false , for we are bound in spirit to give thanks always , to the Father who hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the Saints in light ; and whether we eat or eat not , we give God thanks ; and this we are come to witness , to pray without ceasing , and in all things give thanks , for so is the will of God concerning us , and in us is it fulfilled ; and we sing with the Spirit and with understanding also ; but such take Davids conditions which wa● made manifest unto him in the sure mercies of the Lord to him ; and sing his deliverances whose soul is yet in the pit ; and sing his prophesies , who never knew the spirit of prophesie in themselves ; and say they have roared all the day long by reason of their sins , when as they have roared all the day long in fulfilling their sins and iniquities ; and for the scorners to say , they have no scornful eye ; and for the proud to say , they are not puft in mind ; such singing we deny , which is without the Spirit , and without understanding also ; For light is sown for the righteous , and joy for the upright in heart : so to the light with which Christ hath enlightned every one that cometh into the world ; I speak , which tends to uprightness of heart , and unto holiness , without which no man can see the Lord ; those things which are reprovable , are made manifest in the Li●ht ; and that which doth make manif●st is light , which all who be out of it is in darkness and know not whether they go , nor what they profit ; as many now in these days , being kept from the light and gate of truth by the doctrines of men , and so never come to read in the Lambs book of life ; which first all must come to know the vials poured forth upon the earth , upon the Beast and his works , and his sear which is found standing in all them who be from the light they be enlightned withal . But the hour is coming , and now is , when all they that be upon the face of the earth may see the appearance of the Son of God , and may receive his power in the measure which his Father hath given them to receive him in ; therefore every one who comes to see with the light of the Son of God , enter into tha● which you see to be of him , and out of that which you see to be of the World , that so the everlasting righteousness and peace you may possess in your obedience to what is made manifest , that you may come to see and favour the things of God , from those things that be of the World ; and as every one walks in the light , you will be as a sweet smelling sacr●fice unto the Lord ; and knowing and feeling the power of ●he Lord , with it the everlasting door vvill be opened , and the vvell-springs of life , to the feeding of the plants of God with the uncorruptible food , which is every word which proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord , vvhich vvill be received as that of God , in every particular is kept single . Again , The Priest in his 3 , 4 , 5. Section saith , That we deny the doctrine of the Trinity , and that we hold equality with God , and the soul be ●ne being with God , and corrupt the doctrine of justification . Answ. For a Trinity of persons , there is no such doc●●●ne in the Scriptures , neither the vvord three Persons , nor Trinity ▪ and so three distinct one from another eternally , as he hath held forth , saying Christ is the eternal Son of God , distinct from the Father eternally , and the Spirit is distinguished from the Father and the Son eternally . This is a Tradition of men taught for a doctrine , but no doctrine ; and in denying of that , vve do but deny Claphams tradition ; but as for the Father , Word , and Spirit , which bear record in heaven , these three are one , and vvas never separated eternally ; for Christ in the days of his flesh , vvhen he vvas in the vvorld , said , I and my Father are one ; and said , I in them , and they in me , that they may be one , as we are one . John 17.11 . & 22. and so this doctrine of the unity of the Father , Word , and Spirit , vve ovvn and vvitness ; and as for our equality or unity vvith God , vve that believe in him are one vvith him , as the Scripture saith ; and as Christ prayed for us that believe , John 17.21 . that we might be one in him , and in the Father ; and unity vve must confess , for that is a doctrine ●ffirmed by the Apostles of Christ , that as he is , so are vve in the vvorld ; and he that sanctifieth , and they that are sanctified are both one ; and so vve deny no doctrine , but vvhatsoever is a doctrine , vve vvitness it : And to say that vve corrupt the doctrine of justification , that is false , for vve are freely justified by his grace , and so do vvitness the doctrine of justification ; and vvho are true vvitnesses of it , do not corrupt it ; but if vvhile vve seek to be justified by Christ , vve our selves be found sinners , is Christ therefore the Minister of sin ? God forbid , Gal. 2.17 . but herein doth the Priests of the World corrupt the doctrine of Justification , professing to be justified by Christ , while they themselves are found sinners , and say that God doth account them righteous in Christ , but unrighteous in themselves , and so would make Christ the minister of sin ; and to justifie or save his people in their sins , and not from them , and so by them the doctrine of justification is corrupted , and the Scripture perverted , and the grace of God by which the Saints are freely justified , is turned into wantonness , and so by their faigned words in hypocrisie , they cast thick clouds and vails of darkness over the peoples mindes to keep them in ignorance of the redemption of their immortal souls , which is to be redee●●d by the blood of the Lamb : they saying that the soul came indeed from God , but is not of the being of God ; and yet in the 51. page tels of turning the whole frame of the soul to center in him again : if it must centre in him again , then it was in him before , and so let thy confusion stop thy mouth . Now let all consider in the light which comes from the immortal God , whether Gods being is not in life and immortality ; and whether there is an immortal life , but from the same being . For God breathed into man the breath of life , and through the breath of life he became a living soul ; Now the breath of life came from the life in which the being is : and so to the people I say , you have a light which comes from the same life , in which the soul lived unto God in the beginning , before death passed over , which light is made manifest to lead out of death , into the life from whence it came , and to witness again a living soul , and the breath of life , and so to be wiser then all your teachers , and to know him who hath all souls in his hand , who breathed into man the breath of life and he so became a living soul , and when he doth the evil , the anguish is upon it ; and to feed atop those mountains which you have wandred after in the forgetfulness of God , having forgotten God days without number , Rom. 2.9 . But now the light is come and knowledge begins to increase and shine in the hearts of the children of light , to give them the light of the knowledge of the glory of God , in the face of Jesus Christ , and these things live in us . Therefore we are his witnesses , who is the light and life of men , and did only for the seed sake let forth our knowledge of the mystery of God , that they may be gathered into the fold among the Lambs of Christ ; for the day of scattering hath been long , but now is the day of gathering begun , wherein all they shall rejoyce that fear the Lord. 2 Cor. 4.6 . And whereas many other accusations are charged upon us falsly , for the name of Christ , by the Priest ; yet seeing Christ the true Prophet hath said it should be so , because they know not the Father nor him who hath enlightned every one that commeth into the World ; therefore can we bear all things , being manifest unto God , and to all men to be witnesses of those things , which he saith we deny . His accusations are these , That we deny the Resurrection of the body , the last Judgment , Heaven and Hell , Are enemies to all the Ordinances of Christ , are not true mortified persons , and our doctrine tendeth not to destroy sin ; That we are the common sink of all Heresies , and enemies to civility and good manners . Ans. Our doctrine is the same as is testified of in the Scripture of truth ; and where it is received , remission of sins is received , it being the same that our Example the first-born amongst many brethren , the first begotten from the dead preached , vvhich Gospel vve preach to every creature , vvhich Gospel is the povver of God ; and where it is received doth both destroy sin , and sanctifie them throughout in body , soul , and spirit , and by it is the members vvhich are upon the earth mortified : for this is the povver that raised up Jesus from the dead , and doth also quicken out mortal bodies by his Spirit that dvvelleth in us , in vvhich the Scripture is vvitnessed , which was a Treatise of those things which was knovvn and surely believed amongst the Saints , and vvhich saith , they that are asleep in the dust of the earth , shall rise , some to everlasting life , and some to everlasting shame and contempt : and from ●he true foundation , vvitnessing these doctrines vvhich the Apostles did not lay again the foundation of : Repentance from dead vvorks , and faith tovvards God , of the doctrine of baptisms and laying on of hands , and of the Resurrection from the dead , and of eternal ●udgment , Heb. 6.12 , for vve having learned vvhat it is to be baptised for the dead , deny such as say there is no ●esurrection of the dead ; the first frui●s of this Resurrection is Christ , 1 Cor. 15.22 . of which ●hey t●at are of Christ are witnesses of these things , and they come to know each seed in the light , through the figures and through the parables . Now in the parables I say to you , that seed which you sow in the earth , whether it be Wheat or other grain , you sow not that body which shall be , but God giveth it a body as pleaseth him . If it be so in the earthly parable , then learn to know the seeds , and the nature of them , which God giveth to each of them , it s own body ; there is heavenly bodies , and earthly bodies ; ●he glory of the heavenly is one , and the glory of the earthly is another : and so all being turned to the light , which you are enlightned withal , you in it will know the things that differ both the seeds , the bodies and the glories : and so let every one be a witness of what they profess of the things of God ; for by the Spirit of the Lord have we received the knowledge , and so are made witnesses of these thing● which our brethren the Prophets and Apostles of Jesus Christ hath testified in the Scriptures ; and though our way be called the sink of all heresie , as the Apostle was called the ringleader of the Sect of the Nazerens , and his way Heresie : yet in it do we worship the God of our Fathers ; though the chief Priests do call it so , yet that doth not m●ke it so , no more then it did in the Apostles days ; for we are manifest to God in all our ways , and unto that of God in every mans conscience . Again , Priest Clapham accuseth us for working of miracles , naming several places in which they vvere vvrought , in the eighth Section of his Book ; so that all may take notice , that in vvhomsoever the Lord is manifest to make his povver knovvn in doing good , that is the object of ●is envy ; so that it is manifest that he doth not despise us , but God and his povver , so as if the povver of God vvere not manifest in us , to convert , turn unto God , and seal , vve should not be despised by him . And also take notice that the grounds of his knowledge of these things is reports that came to him , as himself declares in his eighth Section , and yet in the beginning of his book he saith he vvill lay nothing to our charge , but vvhat he hath sufcient personal knovvledge of himself . Novv he hath not been personally present in seeing or hearing any of those things vvhich he chargeth against u● , as pretended M●racles , and so the beginning and end of his vvork is a lye ; and in page 51. of his book he charges us with some in Yorkshire poisoning of themselves in prison , which is false , and he hath it but from a false report , and so hath no personal knowledge of it himself . And likewise he sai●h , That the light that all be enlightned withal , is the light of reason and understanding ; and that this light is natural , and th●t it is the light of nature , and that the natural light is the remainder of Gods image , as in pag. 57. Answ. Here hath he fully manifested his ignorance of the light , and of Gods image ; as first , Of the Light , calling it the light of reason : Now some are unreasonable men , and so all have not reason ; and some are Idiots , and so have not understanding . So then all are not enlightned with reason and understanding ; but Christ calls it not reason nor understanding , but calls it the light which is the condemnation of all th●m that do not believe in it , and with it those works which are wrought in God are justified , and that which is after the flesh is condemned , and that which is able to justifie and condemn the creature in the sight of God , according to their obedience or disobedience to God , is not natural ; for there is no other condemnation bu● the light , which whosoever believes in it , are the children of it ; and who are children of it , are children of God , and heirs of the everlasting inheritance ; and they that walked in it was the light of the World , and their light shined before men ; and upon whom doth not his light arise , Mat. 5.14 ? Job . 25 3. The wicked and deceitful man doth the Lord enlighten , they whose deeds are evil ; though they that rebel against the light knows not the ways of it , nor abide in the path● of it , Job 24.13 . And many such are in this generation ; and are as Job did see that such have light though they walk not in the paths of it ; nor known at the ways of it , because they hate it , but to the light in such are we made manifest , and it shall witness us before the Lord , And such as were fools , and scorners , and vvithout understanding , the Lord bids them return at his reproof , them vvho did hate knovvledge , and said , I vvill pour out my spirit upon you , and make knovvn my vvords unto you ; but they hated knovvledge , and did not chuse the fear of the Lord , they vvould none of Gods counsels , but despised all his reproof , therefore saith God , they shall eat of the fruit of their own way , and be filled with their own devices ; for the turning away of the simple shall slay them , and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them , Prov. 1.23 , 29 , 30 , 32. Mark this is one with your case who hate the light which doth reprove you ; by you the simplicity of Christ is turned away and despised , and your folly remains , who hate the light and calls it natural reason or understanding ; but Christ calls it the light which is the condemnation of all them that do not believe in it . And again , to say that is the remainder of Gods image , which is natural , is blasphemy ; for the image of God is spiritual , Christ the express image of the Fathers person ; and if there be a remainder of Gods image in all men since the fall , as Clapham affirmeth , then there remains that which is spiritual in all men ; but to him I say , let all flesh be silent from saying that the light , or any thing of Gods image is natural , for such things will not the Lord suffer unpunished . Pr. Again , Clapham in the 12. Section of his Book , saith , That God is said to be a respecter of persons , and brings Gen. 4.4 , 5. to prove it , The Lord had respect unto Abel , but unto Cain he had no respect . Answ. Abel was righteous , and Cain was wicked , and God had respect unto the righteous and unto the seed ; and so it is now in all Nations , Kindreds , Tongues , and People ; every one that fears God and works righteousness is accepted of him as Abel was : And God is no respecter of persons ; for unto Cain God saith , If thou dost well , shalt thou not be accepted ? so if Cain had done well , he should have been accepted as Abel was . So let God be true , and every man a lyar that saith God is a respecter of persons , when as the Scripture saith , God is no respecter of persons ; neither did the Apostles respect any mans person , but declare against such as do , calling such filthy dreamers , which had mens persons in admiration because of advantage , and those were they which spoke great swelling words and separated themselves , sensual , having not the spirit , against whom Jude is a witness , Jude 8 , 16 , 17. and against such are we witnesses ; and the Apostle James in his Epistle to the twelve Tribes , he is a witness against such that respect persons , and told them that the Law , which is light , would convince them that it was sin , and such was tra●sgressors , and did not abide in the doctrine of Christ , hath not the Father nor the Son , as John witnesseth 2 John 1.9 . and all such as do respect persons ; now the Law of Christ which is written in the heart , whose Law is light , will convince them to be transgressors , and so the light which convinceth is one with the Apostles doctrine , but contrary to Jo. Clapham . Pr. Which again saith , That grace is a created thing , and that the Scriptures calls it the new creature , and brings Eph. 2.10 . 2 Cor. 5.17 . to prove it . Answ. Here is no such thing in these Scriptures as that grace is a created thing , nor that it is called the new creature : but the Apostle saith , By grace are we saved through faith , and that not of our selves , it is the gift of God : Now was that grace by which they were saved a created thing ? if it was , prove it by plain Scripture , else stop thy mouth ; for we have searched the Scriptures and we find no such thing ; but we find that by grace they were saved , and that they who are new creatures in Jesus Christ , the grace of God was their teacher , as it is our teacher to deny all ungodliness and worldly lusts , and to live soberly , godly , and righteously in this present evil world , which grace is able to keep the hearts and minds in the knowledge and love of God , of all those who are taught by it , but is not a created thing . Pr. That the principles of Christian faith is established upon the Scriptures , pag. 74. Answ. Faith hath but one foundation ; and all who are believers , their foundation is established upon Christ , who is the Author of Faith , before any Scripture was written ; Jacob , Enoch , Abraham , Isaac , had no Scriptures written to establish their faith upon ; and when Moses and the Prophets had known , seen and believed , and from that wrote of him who was the true light , enlightning every one , that in him very one might believe ; so every one , whether they have the writings of the Prophets and Apostles or not , yet they have that in which they are to believe , which if they believe not is condemned , and believing in the light , they come to be the children of the light ; and here the first principle comes to be known of faith ; and so the first principle of the doctrine of Christ must be known , before the doctrine be profest , and so all who know not the first principle of faith , are far from the saith ; and who knows not the first principle of the doctrine , is far from a doctrine ; and so the principle of a thing must be known before the thing ; but the Scripture speaks of nothing that the Christian faith is to be established upon , but upon Christ who was glorified with the Father before the world was ; by whom all things which now are , were made , who hath given us of his spirit : and to us it is given to believe and suffer for his names sake , as it was given those who were his true witnesses before us , and they did believe because it was given them to believe by the spirit ; so faith is the gift of God , and many have the Scriptures which have not faith , which is the gi●t of God ; and they which are turned from the faith , are pierced through with many hurtful lusts , have the Scriptures , and say they believe what the Scripture speaks : but this I say , that faith is the ground of the Scriptures , and not the Scriptures the ground of faith , and none can believe in Christ but they who believe in the ●ight which Christ hath enlightned every one withal that cometh into the World ; and all who own Christs Doctrine , who sai●h , believe in the light , that ye may be the children of light ; which who believe in , shall not abide in darkness , but shall have the light of life , and shall not enter into condemnation ; but who believe in any thing else , their faith is vain , they are yet in their sins ; and he that lays another foundation for faith then Christ , let him be accurst . Thus having laid before the people some of those things with which his book is filled , and for this end do I lay them open , that those for whom Christ died , and unto whom his love is reached forth to bring them to the Father , should not be corrupted with the unsound form of doctrine delivered unto them by their Priest : And again as followeth , I shall lay down some particulars which he hath held forth as affirmed principles in his book , which if you receive his testimony , you must believe as your principles also ; but if you come to try them with the measure of the light that Christ hath enlightned them withal , then you will deny both him and them : therefore mark them as followeth , 1 That the Magistrate is an Officer of Jesus Christ as Mediator . 2 That Jesus Christ hath a political and spiritual Kingdom . 3 That Christ the eternal Son of God is distinct from the Father eternally . 4 That the Spirit was distinguished from the Father and Son from eternity . 5 That the Father , Son , and Spirit , are three substances . 6 That the soul of man is humane , and that humane and immortal is both one . 7 That Christ may dwell in his people by his special spiritual presence and have no union with them . 8 That God dwells in the heavens , but hath no union with them . 9 That the union between God and believers cannot be comprehended by the Saints here . 10 That heaven is not to be enjoyed wh●le men are here . 11 That the Corinthians who were baptized from the dead , were anc●ent Hereticks . 12 That the light which hath enlightned every man that cometh into the World , is the light of reason and understanding , and is natural . 13 That natural light is the remainders of Gods image in man. 14 That God is a respecter of persons . 15 That the grace of God is a created thing , and that it is called the new creature . 16 That the principles of Christia● faith is established upon the Scriptures . I having here answered and laid open those things which is a mist of darkness over the peoples minds and understandings , whereas they are either received or believed , to the end that all who read it may come to that understanding which is a well-spring of life , and to the knowledge of that truth by which iniquity is purged out , and to the counsel of God in the heart , which is like deep waters ; whereby judgment in righteousness comes to be set up , by which the simple and tender-hearted comes to be preserved out of the snares of subtilty and craftiness , to walk in the light of the Lord , which is the path of the iust and the way of life , and all they are blessed with spiritual blessings that walk in it , for they shall be able to tread upon Scorpions ; and the deadly poyson that is under the tongues and in the hearts of the generation of Vipers and Serpents shall not hurt them ; and this power shall all those be indued with which believe in the light of the Lord , answering that of God in all their consciences , which leads into a chast conversation before the Lord , ordering their conversations aright in his sight ; and all such who be turned to the light with which they are enlightned by Christ , shall discern who serves God and who serves him not , in this day when many profess him , but few serve him in spirit and in truth , as he will be worshipped by them whom he hath chosen . Necessary Questions propounded to the Priests to be answered . 1 WHat is that in every man which the Gospel is to be preached unto , which is able to receive , believe , and obey it ; which if not received , believed , and obeyed , is their co●demnation ? 2 And what and where that light is which every man must be turned unto before they can receive the remission of their sins ? 3 And whether that be not in the Heathens which if they obey not will be their condemnation , though they have never heard nor seen the Scriptures , and what is it that is the condemnation of such ? 4 And whether any things which is not spiritual and eternal , can condemn the creature from God for not obeying it ? 5 And whether such have not the Gospel who have not seen nor heard the Apostles writings , and what the Gospel is which they that disobey , the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against , though they have not known the Letter ? 6 And whether any be condemned for disobeying that which they do not know ? 7 And whether that in all which are come into the world , by which they are justly condemned , disobeying it , is not able and sufficient to lead them to life eternal , obeying it ? 8 And whether such who speak good words to the people , and they themselves be out of the life of them , be not deceivers , and cannot profit the people at all ? 9 And whether ever any was sent of the Lord to preach that to others that was not fulfilled in themselves ? 10 And whether the Gentiles have not that light in them , which justifies them that believe in it ? 11 And whether thou be in the life of all that which thou preachest to others , und be a witness of it , if thou hadst not seen the Scriptures ? 12 What is it to be baptized for the dead , and whether they who were baptized for the dead did not deny the resurrection of the dead ? 13 Did Christ own the praying of the Pharisees in the Synagogues , or did he not call them heathens ? and what was it that made them Heathens , seeing they were Jews after the flesh ? Whether was it not their idola●rous worship and oppressing the people , and is not this your mark and proof by Christs words ? 14 Is there any unrighteouser trade in the Nation then the Priests in selling the Letter , for they will have money of them that do not buy of them , as they have of them that have agreed with them , and hired them ? 15 Is there ever a Tradesman in the Nation so unrighteous that sells his wares on the week day , as the Priests do on the first day , to take money of them , and compel them to pay money they sell nothing to ? 16 Is there ever a poor hireling or hedger , or labourer in the Nation , that will force people that have not hired them , nor set them at labour , to pay them money ? would not this be an unrighteous thing in those labourers and hirelings , as the Priests do take of them that have not hired them nor set them on work ; is this a righteous thing , let all honest hearts judge ? 17 Whether would not the Priests account it an unright●ous and unequal thi●g in us to compel them to repair our Meeting-houses in every County , and to give us summs of money ? and if so , whether are they yet come to the royal Law of Liberty , to do unto all men as they would men should do unto them ; and if short of the Law , much more of 〈◊〉 Gospel ? 18 Are not you them that eat mens bread for nought ? Mark , eat mens bread for nought , to whom you do nothing for , and to pluck it out of the mouths of fathers and children . I wish that you were either in the Law or in the Gospel , for then some of your practises , ways , or words , might be justified , which now they cannot ; therefore learn wisdom while you may see your folly , which now is made manifest with the truth . Richard Hubberthorn . The Horn of the He-Goat broken : OR , An Answer to Tho. Winterton his Book , which he affirmeth to be , A chasing of the young Quaking Harlot out of the City ; which if those that he writes against be not by it chased out of the City , then all may take him to be a false Prophet , which reads what he hath affirmed by his Book to be brought to pass . To the READER . READER , THE time is come and coming , wherein the God of Heavenis setting up his Kingdome , which is not carnal but spiritual ; and establishing his throne in righteousness , & the day is appeared and appearing , wherein all that oppose him shall be ashamed . Now when he is declaring his righteousness and his saving health in the Nations , and now the Man of Sin and Antichrist is discovered , and the hidden things is brought to light : and now when his enemies cannot hide themselves any longer , but their shame must appear who are covered , and not with the spirit of the Lord : Therefore I say , because the Lord in his mercy hath caused his marvellous light to arise in the earth , the Prince of darkness is angry , and all his subjects , because their judgment draws nigh , and their strength must be thrown down : And as the Lord hath made manifest his light more then in some generations past : Therefore the rage of the old Dragon is greater , and his Angels and instruments who are to be taken with the Beast and the false Prophet , and shut up in the pit , and sealed in utter darkness for ever , and therefore he is come forth in his power and his strength , and all his subjects every one with such weapons as they have ; some with clubs , some with prisons , whippings , reproaches , and mockings : some with their corrupt sensual wisdom to oppose ; some with lyes , and slanders ; but all is at work to defend their Masters Kingdom , and would not have the man to rule ( Christ Jesus ) who will judge all their unrighteousness , and bring down the Beast out of his seat : amongst whom thou mayest see Tho. Winterton sitting near his Master , unto whom he is fallen upon the throen of unrighteousness . In a former Book he denied any thing above nature to guide man ; and in this his last book would judge of us by his evil consequence , and he hath denied that he hath any thing that is infallible ; but he saith he judges by his imaginary faculty , and he judges us in the 15. page to be Harlots , because we speak plain language , as Thou , and so hath made all the holy men of God Harlots and Adulterers , who used the same ; and so blasphemously against the spirit of truth hath set himself , and makes lyes his refuge , as the rest of the Dragons Army do : and therefore these few things mind , wherein his shame is laid open , and his lyes denied , and his sensual Queries answered , which rose from his imaginary faculty . And so take heed Reader thou come no● in the way of the lyars , nor lend thy ear to the wicked ; but mind the light of Christ Jesus , which will shew thee men of corrupt minds and corrupt things , and seeing in the single eye . In vain doth the Fowler spread his net in the sight of the bird . Try all things by measure of the spirit , hold that which is good . A friend to righteousness I am , and a lover of thy soul. R. H. IN thy former Book thou hast been proved to deny the Father , Son , and Spirit ; and denied that there is any thing in thee above nature : And in this book also thou hast made it manifest to be guided only by the naturall senses , and so to be sensuall , having not the Spirit : and so in this thy sensual wisdom without the Spirit of God , thou goest about to prove us to be the Harlot , and to be upon two dangerous designs ; the first by our Doctrine , the second by the Sword. First , as from our Doctrine , to prove it , thou bringest four particulars , as first , that wee say ; That the peoples soules , understanding and reason , were carnall , fleshly and unto condemnation . To which I answer , All people which hate the light of Christ as thou dost , and set up reason and imagination to be their guide , & knows nothing above nature in them , their senses are reprobate , and their understandings darkened , and their reason carnall and fleshly , which is for condemnation with the light : and to those that were sensual , whose reason was carnall and fl●shly , did the Apostles minister condemnation , as thou mayst read in the Scripture ; and yet that proved them not to be harlot● ; but their design in their Doctrine was , to exalt Christ , which is the true light , and lighteneth every one that cometh into the World , and our design is the same , against which no inchantments , lyes , nor fals accusations from Priest or Atheists can prevail . The second particular wherein thou would prove us to be the Harlot , and our design to be dangerous , is , because we say , That Christ lighteneth every one that cometh into the world . And to this thou thy self in the fifth page of thy Book confessest to be a truth cleere from Scripture ; and that this light discovers to every one ( that will ) both good and evill : and in the fourth page thou callest this particular , That Christ hath lightened every one that comes into the World , a pure truth ; and yet thou would make the people believe that we were the Harlot for holding forth the pure truth ; and so thy own breath as fire shall devou● thee . And hereby the pure truth of God which we hold forth , is cleared , and thou broken to pieces by the stone upon which thou fallest . But all the Atheisme , and all the Pries●s doctrine cannot make the people so blind as to believe that holding forth the pure truth of God , will make us to be an Harlot , or our design dangerous , : and here thou hast manifested ●hy spirit , that all may see what we are accused for , and by whom , being accused to be harlots , hereticks , deceivers and deluders , blasphemous and dangerous , because we hold forth the pure truth of God according to the Scriptures ; ye● , so far hath God turned the wise backwards , and made their wisdom foolishnesse , that even our enemies and accusers are forced to confesse , that it is holden forth to the pure truth according to the Scripture , for which we are accused , as T. Winterton hath done , to his owne shame and confusion . The third particular from which thou would prove us to be the harlot , and our designs dangerous , are in these words , which thou sayest thou gathered from our Doctrine . That whatsoever believers in this light , it is as a fire and a hammer to break and consume all carnall lust , and fleshly and selfish desires whatsoever , that now they cannot sin . Ans. Here thou hast gathered that which we have not strewen , and in thy imaginations thou hast gathered thy evill thoughts , conceiving of that which never was spoken from us as thou speakest it , and now they cannot sin . But this I say , that he that believeth in the light , and follows Christ who is the light , shall have the light of life , and shall never come into condemnation , if he abide in the light which comes from Christ , the Word which is as a fire and a hammer , which where it dwels consumes all carnall and fleshly lusts . And hereby it is easily known who have the word , from them who have but the letter . And whereas thou sayest that light is but to discover , and not active at all ; here thou hast shewed thy self to be ignorant , both of the light and of the Scripture , which saith the light of Israel shall be for a fire , and it shall burn up and devour his thorns and bryers in one day . And this light was witnessed to burn and consume that which is contrary to it : and whereas thou sayest , that if we will be purged , we must seek somthing else , for light will not doe it . I answer , God is light , as in 1 John , 1.5 . and Christ is the light , John 8.12 . and if God and Christ who is the light , will not do it , then what else must people seeke unto to be purged ? And again thou sayst , thou deniest that light or any thing within man or without man , doth or ever did so cleanse , purifie and make perfect the souls of men : and then thou addest , to make up thy darke saying , as that it were safe and convenient to allow them no other guide or director but the dictates of their own light & spirit within them : As for the latter thou mayst take it to thine own , for we deny all those which walks after their owne , whether thou call it light or dictates , for that which is their own is darknesse , and not light ; but those that follow the light of Christ , and deny that which is their owne for his sake we owne . And as for thy former , to deny that light , or any thing within or without man , doth or ever did cleanse or purifie and make perfect the sons of men ; let all here take notice of thy Atheisme , who hath denied Christ and his light either either within or without men to do it . The fourth particular by which thou would prove us to be the Harlot , and our designes dangerous , is in these words , That now the Scripture is no more a guide for us to walk by , nor nothing without them , but the light within them , and that seeks after any other guide but that within him , is in the flesh still . Which words are thy one , and was not so spoken by any of us . But to thee I say , that the Scripture which did foresee that which we now do see , we owne to be one with the light which was before the letter , and to be our guide in the way of truth : and this guide is within us ; but by the Scripture letter without thee , thou neither sees nor foresees the things which belong to eternal life , which if ever any come to see , it must be by the light of Christ within them ; and all who own this light , and with it is guided , cannot deny the Scriptures which was spoken forth from the light within . Again thou wouldest accuse E. B. to be changing in his doctrine from one thing to another , because he said , that all strife and contention , and revenge , was of the flesh , and of the Divel , and to be condemned with the light : which testimony is also true , and this testimony can we never deny nor change from . And whereas thou bringest his salutation to contradict that , where he saith , Make war in righteousnesse against Gog and Magog , and prepare for the Lord. Herein thou hast manifested thy blindness , which cannot see the war which stands in righteousnesse , from that which proceeds from the lust : but as thou hast imagined carnally of all the things of God which was spoken from the same spirit : and so as well may thou make lyes , and pervert our words , as thou dost the Scriptures : and now having published many lyes against us , thou makest a profession of thy own condition , that all people may see fro● what thou judgest us to be in delusion ; thy words are these : Now forasmuch as I have not an infall●ble spirit , infallibly to interpret what may be intended in these revengfull expositions , notwithstanding my imaginary faculty might find ground enough of bad consequence in them , yet I shall leave them to better judgments , as in the ninth page of thy book . Ans. Thy now leaving of us to better judgments , or to them that have the spirit of truth , will not excuse thee for what thou hast done already , that hath had nothing to judge us by all this while , ( that thou hast spoken and written against us ) but evill consequences out of thy imaginary faculty . How art thou fallen from what thou seemedst to pretend against us in thy books ! as if thou hadst known that we had held forth false Doctrine , or intended a carnall war , because we spake of a war in righteousnesse . But now thou speakest plainly , that thou hast not the spirit of Truth , truly to interpret what we intend in our expressions ; but leeves it to better judgments : Here thou hast manifested thy self a foolish builder ; it had been lesse shame for thee if thou hadst not begun , then having begun in thy imaginary faculties and bad consequences , and now confessest thou wantest the spirit of Truth ; here thou hast proved thy selfe to be the Harlot , and fit to be chased out of the Citie , who doth raise strife , accusations and lyes against the truth of God from thy imaginary faculties and bad consequence , being without the spirit of truth . Again , in thy answer to E. B. salutation , thou boasts from thy imaginary faculty , and sayst in thy 11. page , O thou proud presumptuous , ambitious Quaker , whence is thy originall ? thou art not yet seven yeares old , and art thou the only people of the whole creation , in the favour of the Almighty ! therefore woe be to them that live to see thee prosperous to a manly age . Answ. Our original is before all ages , or the number of years , and before any imaginary faculties ( which is thy rule ) was , and this in time being brought forth , which before all times was , they who are found in their imaginary faculties , as thou art , the woe comes upon them ; and thy woe and torment will increase , as the truth increaseth ; as it was from Christ to the Jewes , Scribes and Pharises , in the dayes of his flesh , who questioned the truth of his word from the youngnesse of his yeares , as thou dost his truth now , having nothing to judg with but thy imaginary faculties , having nothing of infallible spirit , and yet thou goes on accusing us , that we deny all matter and form of worship . I say , where the spirit of truth is , which thou sayst thou hast not , there is both the matter and form of the true worship owned , and not denied ; which spirit we have , and know both the matter and form : but in thy imaginary faculties there is neither . And whereas thou sayest , that we deny actuall obedience , and the authority of the Scriptures ; that is false : for by that authority that gave forth the Scriptures , are we daily in actuall obedience to the Lord. Again , thou bringest several particulars , which thou callest the markes of the Harlot by which she may be known : as first , in her language , which is to speak the word Thou to a particular person in stead of You , thou wouldest make the language of the Harlot ; then all the Prophets , Christ and the Apostles , did speak the language of the Harlot ; and then the Scripture is translated in the language of the Harlot , which doth not use the word You to any particular person . But here thou hast made it more manifest to be without the spirit , and to speak from thy imaginary faculties . The second mark is her weapons , which is , saying that people is carnall , and in the flesh , and that they know not the light of Christ , but stumble at the stumbling-stone , and are in the cursed ground , and that they cannot believe though the truth be declared unto them , they having not the spirit , but are in their sins . And this thou sayest is the weapon of the Harlot . Answ. Now these words were all used by the Ministers of the most high God against the Harlot , as thou art manifest to be , who stumbles at the stumbling-stone as it is written , Romans 9.32 . John , 11.9 , 10. Here thou may see they which were no harlots told them they stumble at the stumbling-stone , and told some that they were carnall , 1 Corinthians . 3.3 ▪ and the Prophets told them they had eyes and could not see , eares and could not hear , and hearts and could not understand , Isaiah , 44.18 . and this was no marke of a Harlot in the Prophet ; but they whom he said was so , was Harlotted from the Lord , and Christ told them , that they were yet in their sins , and told them they should die in their sins , John 8.24 . if they bel●eved not , and told them they were of their father the Divell , and had not known God , but was from beneath , John , 8. And these thing in Christ was no marke of a harlot , but they were harlots whom he so Judged , and so thy marks discover thee . The third mark , Her presumption , attempting to share with the Almighty . And this which thou calls presumption , is to be guided by God ; and hereby thou doth accuse all the Saints of God , for they all did so far presume as to be guided by God and by his spirit , and to say that all the children of the Lord should be taught of the Lord , and this was no presumption , nor no mark of the harlot , and they said , as he , is so are wee in this present World : and this was no presumption , nor the marke of the harlot , but humility ; if thou were not blind thou would see it . The fourth mark is , pretending to own the Scriptures , and speak much of Religion , and yet have nothing in matter , form , or essence . Answ. This hath marked out thy condition , that pretends to owne the Scriptures , and professeth them , and hath not that Spirit which gave them forth , being guided by the imaginary faculties , and so without the power and effect of that which thou professeth : but we by that spirit which gave them forth , do them professe , and have the form , power , and effect , of what we doe profess ; and so the mark of the harlot returns upon thy self , which is to presume without the spirit . The first mark , her attendance ; the ignorant and the lewd . Answ. If this be the mark of the Harlot , try thy selfe ; for who is more ignorant than he that wants the infallible spirit , as thou confesseth thou dost ? For this marke of the harlot thou cleares us from in the sixth page of thy book , who there accuseth us of subtilty : and in the 16 page , of ignorance ; and so thou multiplies thy confusion and ignorance . And for lewdnesse , thou may own the guilt of that thine self : for if thou were not both lewd and mad in thy divinations thou would not have so false accused those that have the spirit of God , confessing thy self not to have it ; but that it is that thy folly may more speedily be made manifest unto all men , that the Scripture upon thee may be fulfilled . The sixth mark , her kinred , and that 's the Ranters , which thou sayest is the mark of the Harlot . Herein thou hast numbred thy self , thy own testimony being a witnesse to it , and thy guide which is thy naturall senses , and corrupt reason , knowing neither light nor spirit of Christ within , and therefore no restraint thou knows from thy divers lusts , but both the Ranters and thou in your sensuall liberty is found , and by us you are both denyed ; for from that kinred we are redeemed , and from all harlots marks . The seventh mark is , she is the youngest of all Harlots , little above five yeares old . Ans. If thou would prove us to be the Harlot from the youngness of years , as little above five , then thou must deny that which thou hast asserted against us in the 13. page ; for there thou would prove us to be false Prophets from those fruits that Christ spoke of Mat. 7.15 . And if thou prove any thing against us from that in Mat. 7. then it is not from the yongnesse of years ; for that is above five yeares since : so these confusions I return unto thee again , that thou may see that blindnesse and confusion is the signe of the Harlot . Now as in answer to thy Queries . Query 1. WHether it be not lawful to presuppose things 〈◊〉 are not , to find out the truth of things that 〈◊〉 And if so , then , &c. Ans. It is not lawful for thee to int●nde into things 〈◊〉 thou hast not seen , vainly puft up in thy fleshly mind . 〈◊〉 that goes into things that art not , to find out the truth of 〈◊〉 that are , goes from God the Truth , that is , into a lye ; and 〈◊〉 presupposing things there , is not lawful ; neither canst thou 〈◊〉 ought there ; for nought brings forth its like , being gone 〈◊〉 God that is . 2. Whether there had been any need of Christ's coming in the 〈◊〉 Adam had stood in his created estate ? Ans. Christ●s coming in the flesh is that everlasting 〈◊〉 in which the Creation stands , and in which Adam had his 〈◊〉 estate , and so there was need of that which gave Adam 〈◊〉 being and recovery . The third and fourth : Whether Christ restored to believers any 〈◊〉 then Adam lost ? And whether there be any ground to believe that 〈◊〉 in this life hath more communion with God , or are more pure or perfe●● than Adam was in Paradise ? Ans. Art thou got above the Innocency in thy imaginations , and hast the ground of thy belief to seek ? First , come down out of thy imaginations , that thou mayest feel the ground of Faith ; till then thou art no believer ; and thereby be led up into a perfect state , to have communion with God in Paradise ; till then , thou art not in that wh●ch Adam lost , and cannot underst●nd an estate above , nor believe it though it be told thee ; that which now enquires , must lose its life ere thou come into Paradice : God's secrets must not feed Serpents . 5. Whether Adam in Paradise did not partake of that Light with which Christ lighteneth every one that cometh into the world ? Ans. The life of Adam in Paradise is the same , that is the light of the World , wherewith he lightneth every one that cometh into the World ; and of this Adam did partake in Paradise ▪ which gave him Light and Understanding , which when he went into the selfish knowledge , he became brutish ; and this is a witness against him . 6. Whether this Light of Christ , and all other Lights ( within man , if any there be ) are not seated in the understanding and mind ? And whether all mens surest Light is not conveyed through the sences to the understanding ? And whether this will not more clearly appear , if considered , thae stopping of the current of the sences , the understanding become●h totally dark as unto certainties , it having nothing there to nourish it , but imagination ? Ans. In this thou shews thy confusion , with thy many lights , but hast lost the knowledge of the true Light , and so utters thy darkness ; first asks if the Light be not seated in the understanding , and then asks if it be not conveyed through the sences to the understanding ; but the surest Light is conveyed by faith thereof , born in the understanding , and not by thy sence ; and to thy wits end that is carnal , must thou come , if this thou learn ; for the mysterie is held in a pure conscience , and not in thy sensual understanding ; and who knows this , hath their understanding enlightened by faith , and not by the current of the natural sences . 7. and 8. Whether it argueth not darkness in the understanding to determine any thing real or certain , which was not conveyed by the sences to the understanding ? Whether for want of this consideration , many have not been possessed with as strong a confidence of a certainty , as all their powers both of soul and body could procure , yea to the laying down of their lives , and yet a meer imagination ! Ans. To determine any thing before the Lord , argues darkness in the understanding : But what he reveals in the Spirit of Faith , and leads unto by his light , and not by the sensual understanding ; and for want of this consideration have many been possessed with a strong confidence of a certainty ; and not having found their ends therein , have turned back again into deceit , ready to conclude there is no God , because he would not answer their imagination , who determined things in their own wills , before the guidings of his Spirit ; and see if hereof thou be not guilty . 9. Whether John Lilburn was not as confident that God owned him in his Religion opposing the Powers of the Nation , as Saul was in his design to Damascus ? And whether Sauls conversion to a Christian , and John Lilburns resolving to a Quaker , be upon one and the same ground ? Ans. That John Lilburn was confident in his Religion , is plain ; else had he not so long been deceived ; and that God owned him in opposing many of the unjust Powers of the Nation , is as plain ; else had not he lived to have been converted ; and that the ground thereof is the same wherewith Paul was converted , is as evident as the rest , to them that are in the Light , and out of the imaginations ; and your envy to him since he owned the truth , is no small Testimony of it ; and so all things testifying together , the Tree will be known by its fruits to them that are not blind . 10. Whethee God did not convey this new Light or Dispensation to Sauls understanding through his sences , in that it is said he heard and saw , as a sure ground to build his faith upon ? And also , whether he did not give him Power and Authority by signs and wonders , to convey to the understanding of those to whom he was sent to convert , a sure ground of faith also ? Ans. Here thou hast manifested that thou art blind and in confusion ; for the ground of faith is but one in Paul and those that were converted ; and this ground of faith is not of man , nor conveyed from one man to another , but it is the gift of God , and Christ is the Author of it . In thy Query thou art speaking of the Light in which he heard and saw , being the ground of Pauls Faith , and the signs and wonders wrought by Paul , being a sure ground to convey faith to the people : If thou were not blind , thou wouldest see , that in Paul and the people the ground of Faith is but one ; and they that believed because of the Miracles , their Faith as thine , doth stand in that which is changeable , and is not from the true ground ; but those whom Paul preached unto , he told them , that the Word of Faith was within them : The Word which he preached , and the Light was in them , and so he was to turn them to the Light and to the Word which was within them . And whereas thou asks , Whether it was not conveyed through the senses to the understanding : First learn to know where it is , and what it doth enlighten in thee , and then thou wilt know what is conveyed through ; for as yet in thee thy senses are ignorant of it , though it shine in darkness . 11. Whether if John Lilburn have received the same ground of faith so conveyed to his understanding immediately from God , as Saul had , or by some other whom God hath endued with Power and Authority to convey a ground of Faith , as Paul did , then far be it from me for blaming of J. Lilburn for being a Quaker : Otherwise , whether if he have not received the ground of faith aforesaid , whether it be not easie to discern , that John Lilburn's Resurrection is but a meer imagination or Quaking Delusion ? Ans. Faith is the gift of God , and not the gift of Paul ; and herein thou art blind : And Christ saith , Believe in the Light while ye have the Light ; but he did not bid them believe in that which was of man , nor conveyed by men to one another : Yet thou confessest that it was conveyed to Paul immediately from God. Therefore seeing thou makest a difference , shew who did ever receive Faith , or the ground of it , and not from God , and what was the ground of Abraham's Faith , and Enoch's , before the Scripture-Letter was written : But the ground of Lilburn's Faith is immediately from God as Paul's was ; and therefore thou mayest cease blaming of him for his being turned to the Faith. 12. Whether it be not easie to find out whether the Quakers doctrine be a dispensation of God , or a dispensation of man's will ? Whether if it be of God , he will not take the same care for the divulging of it , as he did of his former dispensation ? that is , by such evidences as no false Minister could procure ; as when he commanded his Apostles to preach to the world , and to baptize them that believed , and to teach them to observe all things , &c. Ans. Although our Doctrine be of God , yet to thee and all in that nature , it is not easie to know , nor find to be so ; for none knows our Doctrine whether it be of God , but he that doth the Will of our Father , and walks in his obedience ; and it is manifest , that thou yet hatest the way whereby our doctrine is known ; for thou having not the Spirit of Truth , how art thou like to know that doctrine which is of God , from imaginations ? that which thou tryes withall being thy imaginary faculty ; but that the Lord takes the same care for his Ministers now , as ever he did , is manifest even by such evidences as no false Minister can produce ; for never any of the false Ministers which the Lord did not send , did turn any from their iniquity , nor from darkness to the light , nor from the power of Satan unto God , which now many do witness from the Ministry which God hath now raised up in this age , which is the torment o● the false Prophet ; for if it had not been evidenced in power and by the Spirit of the Lord , to be contrary to the false doctrine , especially in turning people from the wickedness whic● your doctrine keeps them in , then it might have found favou● amongst you , and would not so much have been despised ; but to us it is an evident token of salvation , and that from God , though 〈◊〉 of perdition . The Rebukes of a Reviler fallen upon his own head . In an Answer to a Book put forth by one John Stetham called a Minister at Terli●g in Essex . WHereas the Ancient of days hath appeared , and the Lord God of Israel , and of his holy Seed for ever , hath in these our days , being his appointed time , stretched forth his hand to gather in his Remnant which hath been scattered and starved upon the barren Mountains , and he hath made known his A●m and Power in raising up his righteous Branch , and is bringing out of captivity his own chosen , that his own name may be exalted for evermore ; and his marvelous light hath he caused to shine forth unto many that have set in darkness ; and he hath cryed , Behold me , behold me , unto a people that hath not been called by his name ; yea , from this time it shall be said , What hath God wrought ? And who is like unto them that are saved by the Lord , a happy people ? And blessed are they whom he hath chosen for his own Inheritance ; they dwell in their Tents , and none can make them afraid ; for there is no Inchantment against Israel , nor no divination against the Seed of Jacob ; he that curses them , it shall return upon his own head ; and he that defies them , shall surely be confounded in a day ; for God hath spoken , and it shall surely come to pass , he hath said , and it shall not be revoked : They that wait upon him , shall never be ashamed , but his presence shall go before them , and his righteousness shall be their reward . Therefore O ye Mountains and Hills , wherefore are ye gathered together ? ye high and lofty Oaks , and rebellious children , to what purpose have ye set your selves as in Array for Battel , against the Lord and against his Annointed ? in vain have you sought divination against Israel , and to no purpose have you risen up to resist Mount Sion , whom the Lord is establishing and exalting above the Dominions of the Earth ; and though many set themselves ( and of the wisest too , in our age ) to gainsay the truth , which is revealed , by subtil Arguments , and have travelled in pain to bring forth misty vapors , to blind the eyes of the simple , and have laid ( and sought so to do ) stumbling-blocks of iniquity before the people , by multitude of crafty productions and lying arguments : Wo unto you wise Writers and Scribes ; you have taken away the key of knowledge , and have neither entered the Kingdom , nor suffered others to enter that would ; what will be your doom ? and what will be your judgement ? Oh the heavy hand of the Lord will be upon you , your damnation sleeps not a moment . And whereas John Stelham ( one of Gogs Army against the Lamb and his followers ) a falsly supposed , and contrarily called , and unjustly named Minister of the Gospel , hath out of his corrupt , wicked , old , lying heart , ( which he confesseth he hath ) brought forth a large piece out of Babylons Treasure , of falsly collected , and falsly framed arguments , whereby he hath sought to offend the way of the Lord , but the rather hath burthened his own soul by his own wickedness , and offended himself , and made himself unworthy of life eternal , and is reckoned in the sight of the Lord , and proved in the sight of man , to be indeed sinful , ( John Stelham ; ) yea , he is numbred , and truly too , among Babylons children , and the Lyars and Hypocrites , whose portion is in the Lake , and not among the children of the Lord , for them he hath set himself to oppose , and by his subtilty secretly sought out Inchantments , and endeavouring to curse whom God hath blessed , he is accounted among the uncircumcised , and shall not dye the death of the righteous , neither shall his last end be like unto his , except he repent ; yea , God hath kept him back from honor , and to shame and disgrace he is already promoted in the sight of all the Saints , and all his work is trodden down as a branch of a dead Tree , to be cast into the fire : And what though he hath travelled full ten Months , or more , yet his birth is imperfect , and the fruit of an Egyptian Womb , which hath obtained neither praise of God , nor favour of man : And what though his Arguments be many and subtile , through the strength of his divellish Wisdom , whereby he hath descended into the darkness to fetch up his stuff , and invented in his mind , and framed in his evil thoughts , which hath filled his Volumes by his envious pen. And what though he hath taken seeming occasion against us by his industry , and bent his tongue to utter it as friendly and zealously , as may blind the single eye , and in as great hypocrisie and pretended righteousness as possibly may : What then of all these things ? Let h●m take this for an Answer in full to all his many Arguments , and to his whole Work , and whatsoever is brought forth , or may be yet lodging in his sinful heart ever to declare . We are of God , and his Covenant is with us , and the whole World lyes in wickedness ; and he that is of God heareth us . And this is enough Reply to all what he hath , or can say further against us . And this Testimony the Father gives of us , who hath chosen us in him before the World was ; and let him and all our Adversaries know , That our Religion is in that which keeps unspotted of the World , and our acceptance with God is in him , who is the Light of the World , who exerciseth our consciences in all good things towards God , and towards man : And though we answer not , yet are we no worse ; and though we answer , yet are we no better ; praise of men approves us not to God , nor dispraise of men makes us not sorrowful ; but our peace is in the Father , whether the World do us love or hate , or praise or dispraise us . And first of all , like unto Rehum and Shimshai , and their companions , he appears with his Dedication much like unto theirs , from the same Spirit , and unto the same end , as may be seen Ezra 4.9 , 11 , 12. &c. and in the manner of Amaziah Priest of Bethel , unto Jeroboam the King , with a Message much of that nature , as in Amos 7.10 , 11. &c. And this man with his feigned flattering titles , appears to the chief in Authority for approbation of his Wo●k , that men may accept it the more : But that 's little worth if God accept it less ; and in much secret hyyocrisie hath he uttered the intent of his mind in less than a sheet of paper , to the Protector and Council of State , whom we hope in for more honesty than to believe lyes , and the indictments of a sinful wicked heart : Well , but if they will harden their hearts to believe unrighteousness , they shall be filled therewith , till both the ancient and honorable , and the false Prophet that prophesies lyes , which is the tayle . Isa. 9.15 . be consumed together , 〈…〉 the Dominion shal be given into their hands : then among his flattering titles , he seems secretly to Complain of Abuse made of the Press , for the spreading of Anti-scriptural , and Anti-christian Errors , as he saith : Indeed his own works do prove his words true , that the Presse is abused , which hath by his Pen scribled so many Lyes , Reproaches , Slanders , and Errors , and the Presse the instrumental cause of spreading them abroad , whereby the Press hath been abused , to the dishonour of Religion and Piety , if not to the dishonour of Authority also . Then he seems to hint at the Cruelty and Outcry of many , for crying Club-law against the men called Quakers ; but whether with approvement , or otherwise of it , his mind is not uttered ; however by the Lyes and Slanders ensuing out of his owne mouth , it is easily proved , that he is of that very generation of persecutors ; though he so well do not approve of Persecuting with the hand , yet he allows , and himself is guilty of persenting with the tongue , which is one in nature ; so that hereby the great hypocrisie , of this man appears , in condemning others secretly of what himself is guilty of openly ; then he is pleased ( though the Lord be vexed ) to cast forth his peevish smite against the light of Jesus Christ , wherewith every man in the world is lighted , in words thus venomously uttered , that perverse Principle of their ( viz Quakers ) self-adoring light : Will the Protector and Council believe this , or will they promote him to honour or magnifie him , because of his opprobious speeches against the light of the Son of God ? let them answer and testifie against him , for blasphemy , who hath in his hastinesse uttered his envie and wickedness , and no less then denied the Lord that bought him , in calling , and shamelesly stiling the pure light of Christ , the Way , the Truth , and the Life , Perverse Principle , and Selfe adoring light : and thus it is manifest the Press is abused by such an Anti-scriptural , and Antichristian error , proceeding out of John Stelhams old heart , and manifested from his Pen ; then with his lying Message he follows after his flattering titles , and sayes ere long the Lord himself will rebuke them ( viz Quakers ) to silence , that they shall neither write , nor speak so presumptuously &c. If his Lords believe this Message , they shall never bless him , but in the end curse him , when the production of his lying Prophesie appears , which is deceiving of their Soules , and will prove a curse upon them , and posterity , and is feeding of them with hopes of vanity and lyes , and on his owne head shall his false vision fall ; a Rebuke into silence shall come upon him , the sin is his ; writing presumpuously , and arrogantly , and the judgment thereof shall he feel , and all that believe him ; truth shall be established , and his lying tongue is but for a moment ; then his lye he adds to his Message which is that the Lord Jesus is fighting against them ( viz Quakers ) with the Sword of his mouth , &c. What wicked presentation is this to the chief Rulers of Nations ! even lyes , one heaped upon another , to suggest into the minds of men , to stir up wrath in their hearts , against the just : nay , Jesus is our Prince of peace and righteousness , and is with us , and fights for us , and who can be against us ? none but such as are his enemies , and have denied him , and his light ; and counted it a perverse Principle . O how fain would John Stelham , ( sinfull indeed ) gaine a Kingdom by flattering , and have praise of his works by his Lyes , which he hath made his Refuge , and his Weapon too ! they that believe him shall perish with him ; that 's all that may be said ! his flattering titles and words of guile , may gain upon the wicked , but the just man is preserved from the fury of a deceitfull tongue ; then his ( supposed ) humble Supplicate after his false Vision and lying Mess●ge is . That every person whatsoever , may not impute , strike them ( viz Quakers ) Corporally , &c. This appears fair in word , if his meaning was right ; yet while he supplicates , That every one may not , though whether he means any one may not , ( I determine not ) strike them corporally , &c. Yet to publish his Lyes , and Errors , and Slanders , he would have liberty , & this is but so much more secretly to strike in the greater hypocrisie , in more crafty subtilty ; and indeed , well may the Priests of England be ashamed of what hath already been acted , as to striking and cruel abuses , and works of that nature ; the blood of many harmless hath been spilt wofully in streets and Steeple-houses , through the means of the false Prophets , & it may be they will now take another Weapon , seeing that hath failed , and not wrought effect ; no more shall any formed weapon ag●inst the innocent ; and though some of them have shamefully cried , Fight Lads for the Gospel ; others may with as much hypocrisie write for the fighting lads , and in as great deceit : And then he gives an Exhortation in his Supplicate , and saith , Be p●eased to let them ( viz Quakers ) know that we are guarded by a bett●r Law , then what they upbraid us with ; its time to be ash●med that you have been so long guarded by a Popish Law ; yet the secret crafts of this man is noted , in this subtile suggestion ; a better law would he have ? what doth it too much shame you , by the name of Popish Law , and would you be lesse discovered , if the law of the same virtue , were of another Authority then Queen Mary , and of another Dominion than the Pope ? therefore a Law from the Protector he would supplicate , if possible , That how ever we may not have liberty to deliver our Doctrine in their Assemblies , as he saith ; and this evill man , and decever , who waxes worse and worse in his way , impudently slanders the way of God , & reproaches the Doctrine of the Gospel of Christ , and would wickedly make men ( more honest than himself ) believe , that these mens ( viz Quakers ) Tenents , as he saith , are as reprobate stuff of the Jesuites , their blasphemies as horrid as the Popish Parasites : O the wickednesse and impudence vvhich hath appeared out of this mans heart in those few words wickednesse in that his words are lyes ; and devilish , and impudent , in that he dares thus to appear to an Authority , with the Dedication of Lyes ; Let him take notice of this , we are cleer from his false Accusations , and of Popish Doctrines ; But they that are one wi●h him , are not from being guarded with a Popish Law ; and these are truly Romes Subjects , who are guarded with his Law ; more than we are Romes Emissaries , which scarcely he would cast upon us , and make the Protector and his Councel believe it , if their hearts be so hardened : But better is thought upon concerning them , though I.S. would make them evill , suggesting evill into their hearts : But a false Prophet is known by his Lyes and Slanders , and secret smiting ; and then he saith , He would have some of this Sect ( viz Quakers , ) more narrowly watched , &c. and stigmatized : Oh cruelty ! out of the abundance of the heart his mouth utters , like a Pot boiling , with anger that cannot contain it within the mouth ; what lodges in tbe heart of this man , consider ; what less , then in their hearts , who ●ere Queen Maryes Jesuiees and Priests , if the Protector and Councel would answer the cruel intent of his mind , as Queen Mary did theirs ? Balaam , or worse he is ; or he hath sought inchantment , and would curse before they sent for him to doe so ; but it shall return on his owne head , who is watched against for a Wolfe and Devourer , and stigmatized for a Deceiver , and false Deviner ; one who art marked for a false Prophet , and known to be so , by every one who is taught of God ; and in the end of all this secretly uttered wickednesse , and cruelty , insinuatingly expressed to suggest evill into the minds of men more honest than himself , he wishes for Blessing upon his Highness and Honours , that they may discern true Spirits from false , such who proceed out of the mouth of the false Prophet , from such as proceeds from the Father , and from the Son ; indeed of such a gift of discerning they have need , and by the fruits they may try every Spiri ; t & in a just tryal , by just judgment , are thou tryed , & they spirit is made manifest , to be the spirit which proceeds out of the mouth of the Dagon , who wars against the Saints , and out of the mouth of the Beast , who hath many Heads & many Horns , which Beast arose up in the Apostacy since the Apostles days ; & thy spirit is made manifest to be the spirit of the false Prophet , who deceives the Nations , for thy fruits doth discover thee a lyer ; a slanderer , a perverter of the right way of God , art thou proved , and such things proceeds out of the mouth of the false Prophet , & so let them beware of thy spirit , who art not guided by the spirit of Christ Jesus , nor of the Father , but a worker of darkness , & a rev●ler of the light of Christ , calling it ( false Prophet-like , as being led with the spirit of the Dragon , & the Beast ) Perverse Principle : We have measured thy spirit to be as I have said ; and he that speaks otherwise , speaks as a lye ; and if the Protector and his Councel believes o●herwise , they believe a lye , and cannot obtain a blessing , though thou with thy lying spirit pray for them , whom God ( the Father of blessings ) hears not , but is against thee ; and this is my prayer , the Lord rebuke thee , & thy wicked tongue , and give the Protector and his Councel a better understanding than to believe thee ; else will the Lord make them cursed to themselves , and to the Nations ; of them my heart hopes better things , and this might serve for a full Answer to thy whole Book ; and by this little of thy work that I have viewed , and turned unto the sigh of all , art thou discovered to be an enemy to God , and a secret envier of his people ; and by what thou hast said it appeares what the rest of the whole matter can be ; an evil spirit cannot bring forth good works ; but yet a little further , is my matter unvayled for the sake of the upright . And further , J. S. after his wicked Presentation to the Rulers of this Nation , with lyes and evill Speeches proceeding out of his old heart , he writes an Epistle ( out of the same heart ) to the Church , as he calls them , wherein is many words uttered , but altogether tasted with that leaven of his malice , against Quakers and Quakerism , who seemes to be the greatest burthen upon his evil heart , because truth is among them , & if truth go on , his deceit wil be more made manifest , wither , and perish ; and so as subtilly as may be he would defend himself in the sight of his Church that his shame may not appear before them ( it may be least his Hire should be abated ) and he seems to cast a cloak upon them ; but whether out of pure love to their Soules , or for his owne Gain , & such a sum of Money , God knowes ; how ever the least Child in the truth dwelling in the light , sees his length , and can measure his state , & knows that good cannot come from an old lying heart , & he speaks something of wondering after the beast and false Prophet , but hath not described what the Beast is , and the false Prophet : And I refer the Reader to a Book called The Measure of the Times : wherein the Priests of England , such as J. S. is reproved according to the Scripture , to be the very branches of the same Root of false Prophets which all the World wondered after in Johns time ; & though he speak much to his Church of Christ without , and of his birth , blood , and his righteousness , and justification thereby , &c. but to all that , I say , All are Reprobates but such in whom Christ is within them , and none are justified but such , nor hath any part in the inheritance of God , though they may profess never so much of Christ without ; and what he hath done for others , yet except he be within them too , to change and renew them , and give them power over all their sins , their profession of him is vain . I am no picker of Quarrels ; else many of his words might be searched , which I run over hastily , knowing his voice to be the voice of a stranger , and not of Christ , who never made use of an old sinful heart to pen Epistles to Churches . But into this lets search ; he saith , Christ blesseth Infants-Baptism : Where , or when , I aske proof of this , and till then I say J.S. hath belyed Christ , and the generation of the just ; Wel may he bely us , when he hath bely'd Christ , who could not ble●s that which there was not : there was no Infants baptism that ever we read of in his dayes : sure people will be more wise than to be established through Lyes ; else their sin be upon them , if through hardnesse of heart they be given up to believe Lyes , that they may perish . He speakes of a well ordered Conversation ; Inded this seems Hypocrisie , to exhort others ( their Churches ) to that which many of the Independent Teachers have not thmselves , who are Hirelings , and takes Guifts , and Rewards for Preaching , and is in the way of all the Deceivers of old ; and they that do these things have not a wel ordered Conversation , but a Conversing with the generation of ungodly ; & when we read the plain words of Christ , Luke 17. The Kingdom of Heaven is within you , he saith , we madly wrest the reading of the words , when we neither add nor diminish ; now he seems to say , It is the Kingdom of Heaven among you , and not the Kingdom of heaven within you ; and so blames the Scripture , and confound● the doctrine of many of the Independents , who say , the Scripture is believers Rule ; but he seems to charge ths Scripture with false translations , and therefore is subject to alteration , and so cannot be the Rule of Believers according to his own account ; & thus by wicked men are we blam'd when we do not speak according to Scripture language , and now as wickedly charged by I. S. for speaking just in the Scripture-expressions , with madly wresting the words ; but thus it was before ; & whatsoever we do now , by enemies must be reviled , and our words abused , contrary to our innocent intents . Then in the end of his Epistle , he desires the Prayers of his Church , that his Reply may be accompanyed with power according to the truth of it . Indeed so it shall , and no more ; according to the truth of it , which is very falshoods and deceits ; so shall the power of the Lord confound it , and turne it into folly and confusion , as may he seen by a sober man , who this following doth with patience read , and weigh . Then many things is uttered by him in his Epistle to the Reader ; he seems to shew , he saith , how R. F. and his Associates have made up A Litter and Fardel of Erroneous Divinity : and secretly charging us with making up of what we professe from some Writers before us . But to this I answer , His reproachfull words Litter , and Fardel , and Erroneous , we beare with patience , rather rejoycing that we are accounted worthy of the reproach for the truth sake from an envious man , then to be angry with our reproaches : But however , let him and all our enemies know , what we professe and bear witness of , we receive not from man , but from God ; even the Gospel which we testify of , by the revelation of Jesus Christ in us we received it ; & informs others to the same door , which is , by our Ministry , that they may receive the same : and this is but his poor shift , to undervalue the power and truth of Jesus , in the sight of men , who would falsly make men believe , That our Doctrines are but the spawn of many ancient Errors , as he saith , brooded by some Modern Writers , when as the Doctrine of Christ & the Apostles we bear witness to by the same spirit , & not to any other Authors who were without the Spirit of Jesus : & all these shifts saves not the Priests of England from being discovered , & their deceits & abominations to be made manifest by our Light and Doctrine , which is the Light of Christ , and the Doctrine of the holy men of God before us . And further , his wickedness appears by reproaching and reviling dead men , such as H.N. Jacob B.W.E. with others , whom I confidently believe were men in their Generation more honest than himself , and more upright with God , and sincere in what was made known to them , then this same reviler who is set to revile both living and dead , if they do but crosse his fancy : Let all men take notice of these things , and of his rebukes , with an evil heart , whom the Lord doth and will rebuke by the Spirit of his mouth , in the day of his just judgmens , who art a reviler of the just both living and dead : and all alonge in that Epistle , as in the rest of his Book , which is the Rebukes of a Reviler , he bends his very tongue , as the poyson of Aspes being under it , against the Quakers , reckoning them with the Papists , and such others ; but this is but as the Pharises his fore-fathers did , who numbered the Son of God , and condem●ed him with transg●esso●s , and betwixt two thieves . And in the end , he desiers his Reader to receive in love , what in his Book is found agreeable to the Spirit of God in Scripture truth , agreed ; so let it be , and therefore many things in his Book , which is not given forth by the Spirit of God , nor according to the Scripture truth , which the honest Reader may find upon a serious reading and search with the Spirit of God , & according to the Scripture , is to be judged and condemned , & not reeeived ; what shall the honest Reader receive this for truth , That the Light of Christ Jesus is A Perverse Principle ? and that Christ bl●ssed infants Baptism , with very many such like things of the like nature proceeding from the same spirit , which is proved not to be of God , but of the Devil ; for every tree is known by his fruit , & every spirit by its works , & words : many other things more devilish , if more devilish can be , he charges us withal in a most unreasonable manner , that our Religion is the Fort of Babel , and that Jesuitical Plots and Designs are carried on by some of us ; and Quakerism is built upon the fourfold pillar of Papistry , with such like ; the very transcribing of his words shewes his wicked spirit by his unsavoury words ; which things we do deny in the presence of the Lord , and are cleare in his sight from these devilish accusations , though J. S. play the Devils part , in this Epistle as well as in his whole Book : & is an accuser of the brethren , & is to be cast out and judged with the life of God ; and to give testimony against his lyes and slanders is sufficient Answer , & the next time he enterprises the like Work , we demand of him witness of his words , what these Jesuitical plots and Designes are , we do carry on ; Which slander is so divelish , could he prove what he sayes , his words would take away our lives ; but to raise the uncleane spirit against us , though the Nations is truly supposed the purpose of his words , and not being content with what he himself can believe us in , his work reaches to raise the rage of whole Nations to execute their fury as well as his own upon us , and so his words gives ground to all the wicked that doth believe him ( for none else can ) to persecute the people , & way of the Lord , under the false account of being Plotters , of haveing ill Designes , which thing we stand witnesse against , & seek the peace of all men , though he have bent his tongue for Lyes , and brazen'd his face to utter them without fear or shame , to suggest evil into mens minds that they may harm the upright ; but it is known by his words what lodgeth in the heart of such a person , who thus openly & impudently doth slander just men to the taking away of life , if any were so divilish to witness lyes and slanders , as he is forging of them , and declaring of them , & that to the Protector and his Council too ; but from these things we being clear , are the more ready to bear his Lyes with Patience , & doth not pray for fire to devour him , though he be our enemy and the Lords ; but rather wishes his returnig from his ungodilness , than a destruction upon him in his ungodliness ; & whereas the subject of his matter invented in his mind & brought forth into view , is a going about to prove that in 22 particulars mentioned by him , we do contradict the Scriptures ; but his ground is false from whence his whole work proceeds ; for not in any particular of what is mentioned do we contradict the Scripture , though his whole work be founded upon this thing , of our cotradiction to Scripture ; and while we be proved in the sight of the Lord , we reckon his slanders to be rather a testimony to us , that we are of God , then a discouraging of us in the wayes of God : and we do not allow that J. S. be our Interpreter , and the Expositor upon our words ; for then no question but he will judge out of his prejudicial mind , false judgement , and pervert the innocent words into contradiction of Scripture , and of our selves ; but to the single mind and Witness of God in every man we appeal for judgement , and do in the sight of God commend our selves to every mans conscience , and beg not belief of any , but know all that be in the Light of the Son of God , witness to us , and feel our Doctrine to be the Doctrine of godliness , reaching to the Witness of God in every one , whereby we are a good savour to God in all : And though J. S. judge our Doctrine to be Scripture-contradictions , yet his judgement is but out of his old lying heart , which can bring forth no better than it self , even false judgement and lying words , which out of it hath plentifully abounded in his false rebukes ; therefore let the Reader first search into the ground from whence his Work and Judgement doth spring , and try if an old lying heart , and sinf●l wretch ( as he confesses he is ) can bring forth good fruit : No , we matter not what his judgement of us be , when as we know the heart is corrupt from whence it doth spring ; not in the Light of the Spirit of God do we in any one particular insisted upon by him , contradict the Scriptures , though by his dark mind so he wickedly judgeth of us , even as the Pharisees , his fore-fathers , did judge of Christ to be a blasphemer and a contradictor of Moses and the Prophets , who did fulfil them , and put them to an end , and not destroy them , nor contradict them in the sight of his Father , though to their corrupt judgement ; and Christ tells them that they erred , not knowing the Scriptures nor the Power of God , who had old lying hearts , and were sinful wretches , even such as John Stelham hath confessed himself to be ; and therefore his words and judgement , and theirs , is like to be all of one nature , judging Truth to be Error , and the Way of God to be Heresie and Blasphemy ; this the Pharisees did of old , and even thus doth John Stelham and his companions do at this day : But why should any be troubled hereat , seeing herein Christs words are fullfilled upon us , who said , They shall speak all manner of evil falsly against you for my Names sak● ? And so hath this man done with his light , scornful spirit , and fulfilled Christs words , who because he hath not known the Father nor the Son , hath spoken evil falsly against them that follow Christ : And this were sufficient answer to his whole Book . Yet let us see what follows , and let the Reader try with all moderation , that he may be edified , and may know the true Spirit from the false , and the doctrine of the Gospel from lying visions , and may cleave to the Truth , and escape the error : And let none believe hastily things uttered without knowledge , out of J.S. deceitful heart . FOrasmuch as many of the Servants of the Lord have been moved of the Lord to set forth in order several Declarations of those things which the Light of the glorious Gospel shining in their hearts , hath given them the knowledge of , and for this end are they published , that others also may know the certainty and truth of those things which are believed , known and enjoyed amongst us ; not that they can be known by reading the Letter in which they are declared ; but through their diligence and obedience to the Light wherewith Christ hath enlightened them ( though not for it ) which is the same Light which shined in our hearts , and gave us the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ ; by which Light of the glorious Gospel , who are faithful in it to the Lord , their understandings come to be opened , that they stumble not at those things which are testified in the Truth , neither at that which is declared in other Scriptures , but it being that in this our day it hath pleased the Father to bring forth in life and power , that mercy and truth ( which the Scripture speaks of ) by which iniquity is purged out ; and as it is become a savour of life unto life in those that receive and believe in it ; so it is also become a savour of death unto that death which remains in both Priests and people in this age , who hate the Light , who can scarce hear it named , or that people should be turned unto it ( as the Apostle did turn them from darkness to the Light , and from the power of Satan unto God , that they might receive the rem●ssion of their sins , and be partakers of the inheritance amongst them that are sanctified ) but when they hear that preached or printed , which they may do , and out of which they cannot receive the remission of their sins , then envy riseth up in them , & a perverse mind , and ungodly speeches , and false accusations , saying , that we speak of a natural Light , and of a natural Conscience ; when as we speak of the true Light which hath enlightened every one that cometh into the World , and in which Christ's Doctrine stood , who said to the people , and to the Pharisees again and again , I am the Light of the world , as John 8.12 . John 12.46 . but now because the Light is come , and the glory of the Lord is risen upon us , and we declare it freely , as we have received it ; therefore is floods of ungodliness risen up against us : But it is impossible that the Seed which the Lord is manifesting his Light and Power to bring forth , should be kept alwayes under the power of death ; which Seed is now terrible in the Lord's Power , and will yet be more terrible as his power encreaseth , which is now going forth as an Army with banners ; for the torment of the wicked is already begun , because the righteousness of God is now spreading over the Nations , and neither the Rulers of the darkness of this World , nor all the Printings and Preachings of those who be out of the life of God , can hinder that which the Lord hath begun , and is carrying on by his own power , though the Nations are angry , because that by the Light of his glorious Gospel shining forth , his wrath is revealed upon them for their ungodly deeds , that the Scripture which cannot be broken , may be fulfilled ; and therefore it were better for them there may be hope , then to rise up against that which is more unchangeable than the Heavens and the Earth : And therefore in vain have the Enemies of God , and people in all professions joined themselves together against the Light of Truth , and the Way of the Lord , which many in our dayes have fallen upon , but are broken to pieces ; and it hath fallen upon many , and grinded them to powder , and nothing shall escape ; for the day of the Lord is come , and it is very nigh to you that hate it ; a day of darkness and of gloominess , of clouds , and of thick darkness ; and now the seed of God is as the morning spread upon the Mountains ; a great people and a strong , there hath not been ever the like , neither shall there be any more after it , even to the years of many generations ; a fire goeth before them , and behind them a flame burneth ; the Land is as the Garden of Eden before them , and behind them a desolate Wilderness ; and nothing shall escape them ; the appearance of them is as the appearance of horses , and as horse-men , so shall they run , &c. the Earth shall quake before them , the Heavens shall tremble , the Sun and Moon shall be dark , and the Stars shall withdraw their shining , and the Lord shall ut●er his voice before his Army ( as he now doth ) for his Camp is very great , for he is strong that executeth his Word ; for the day of the Lord is great and very terrible , and who can abide it ? And now , according as the Prophet Joel prophesied , is it come and coming to pass , Joel 2.2 , 3 , 4 , 10 , 11. against which Seed men of corrupt minds , and reprobate concerning the things of God , are risen up , who in their first appearance in their Writings , profess themselves to be that which they are not , seeming right unto many through their feigned words and fair speeches , deceiving the hearts of the simple , for whom Christ dyed ; but afterwards in the same Writings ( to those that see ) they manifest themselves what they are ; and being so considered as they are seen and known , cannot deceive ; and therefore to all people who desire to be edified and satisfied in the ground and truth of things as they are made manifest by the Lord , to the Light in you I speak , that in it you may be able to understand truth in what I say , and by the truth to judge of things that differ ; for such as the Tree is , such is the fruit ; an evil tree cannot bring forth good fruit , neither can one Fountain send forth sweet water and bitter . Now as concerning a Book given forth by John Stelham ( Priest at Terling in Essex ) who having an evil eye because God is good , and being filled with indignation because God hath mercy on his own Seed whom he hath blessed , hath out of the abundance of his heart spoken it forth : Now the way to know that which is spoken in darkness , is to read it in the light ; and if his Testimony in any thing , as coming from him , is to be believed , it is that which is concerning his own condition ; and if his estate and condition be such , that in it he can receive the things of God , and minister them to others , then they may be received ; but if his condition be such , that in it he cannot receive the things of the Spirit of God , then that which cannot receive , cannot minister ; and so he is to be silents and none to expect the things of God from him , being neither fit to reprove , nor to rebuke , but to be reproved and rebuked , as will appear as followeth . The ground in him , and the heart out of which this abundance of words in his Book proceeds , in it ( as he declares ) is yet the root of all error , and of all sin is in him , and seen by him not mortified , and that he hath an old lying heart , and flesh , wherein there dwells no truth , no good thing ; a sinful wretch and worm , subscribing himself the sinful John Stelham , as in his Introduction , in pag. 80. and p. 117. Now therefore , we having found out the root and the ground to be a root of Errror , and the ground of Deceit , and a heart wherein dwells no truth , nor no good thing , therefore from that which is unclean , shall we not expect that which is clean to proceed , nor truth from that wherein dwells no truth ; but from the lying heart and deceitful tongue hath the Lord delivered us ; so that if we be called revilers , and be rebuked , and a charge laid against us , as to contradict the Scriptures of God , and be called Antiscriptural , Antichristian , and Antispiritual ; we have now learned to know whence it doth proceed , even from the lying heart , and flesh , wherein there dwells no truth ; and we can bear it , because we know , that til that heart be taken away , and a new heart known wherein is truth , we must be reproached and spoken evil of falsly , for his sake who hath taken away the old lying heart , and hath given us a new heart , wherein truth dwelleth , and where truth proceeds out from ; and herein are we manifest from the children of this generation , and herein are the two states known , and the two conditions of men , according to the testimony of Scripture , and the parable which Jesus spoke , Luke 6.39 . Can the blind lead the blind ? shall they not both fall into the ditch ? And ver . 45. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good . And , an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil ; for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh . And hereby is the Tree known , by his fruits ; and the heart of the wicked was ever filled with lying and vanity ; and understanding was hid from them ; the Lord was grieved with such that did err in their hearts , and had not known his wayes , Psal. 119 70. Psal. 140.2 . and this was an evil which was under the sun , that the hearts of the sons of men were full of evil and madnesse , while they live , Eccles. 9.3 . And such a heart was in the Scribes and Pharisees , a lying heart , wherein dwelt no truth , filled with evil thoughts , as Christ said , Wherefore think you evil in your hearts ? Mat. 9.4 . and out of the heart did arise all false accusations , calling the truth blasphemy , and the way of it heresie ; and such who be in the state as John Stelham confesseth he is , was never appointed by the Lord to watch over souls . But such where Christ did dwell in their hearts , and because they were sons , God sent forth the Spirit of his Son into their hearts , Eph. 3.17 . Gal. 4.6 . and such had truth in their hearts , doing the Will of God from the heart , and did draw near unto God with a true heart , in full assurance of Faith , having their hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience , and their bodies washed with pure water ; these did not profess the things of God in an old lying heart , wherein dwelt no truth , but called upon the name of the Lord with a pure heart , and said , that the end of the commandment was charity out of a pure heart , and of a good conscience , and of faith unfeigned , from which some swerved ( in the Apostles dayes ) having turned aside unto vain jangling , and such desired to be teachers of others , but the doctrine is corrupt , and the Mysterie of Faith is not held where the heart and conscience is not pure ; and the Lord is good unto such who be of a clean heart . Now as concerning the Scriptures . John Stelham's Testimony from the old lying heart , wherein dwelleth no truth , is this : That the Scriptures are the Word of God , and truly so called ; and the Letter and Scripture is all one , as p. 3.4 . but to contradict that himself , he saith in p. 5. the Letter taken strictly is but legal administration ; using these words , The Letter killeth , i.e. the bare legal command without a promise of power or pardon , as a bare Letter , void of strength , life and spirit , it leaveth all men under a killing sentence and curse . Let them that have understanding , judge . Again , as concerning the Letter , in page 6. he expresseth himself thus : The Spirit is given by it : And in the next words saith , the Scripture is but instrumental to the Spirit . Now mark ; the Letter taken strictly being legal , without a promise of power or pardon , void of strength , life and spirit , ( the Spirit to be given by this which he confesseth is void of strength , life and spirit ) and is but instrumental to the Spirit , whether this be not contradiction and confusion , let them that read judge : For in reading these things which he hath published , many may seal to the confession of his own condition to be truth ; but that which he hath declared of the things of God , to be false ; for now the Light being broken forth , such doctrine cannot be received nor believed , that th● Spirit is given by the Letter , but that which is declared in the Letter , was given forth from the Spirit , vvhich vvas in them which spoke it forth ; but people may long have the Letter , and think in it to find God and eternal life , and may dye in their sins ; though J.S. say , that not one man in the world knows God to be God , till he finds him in the Scripture : But I say unto him as Christ said unto the Pharises , Who had neither heard his voice at any time , nor seen his shape , had not his word abiding in them , nor did not believe in the Light ; and that he was the Light vvhich did enlighten every man that cometh into the World ; search the Scriptures , for in them ye think ye have Eternal life , and they are they which testifie of me , saith Christ the Life ; but those thought that they had the life in the Scriptures , deceived them , for they vvanted the Life when they thought they had it : And so I. S. thoughts that he hath the Spirit by the Letter , dece●ves him ; for vvhen he finds the Spirit and Eternal Life , then his old lying heart in which is no truth , but the root of error , will be taken away , and so the Light vvhich cometh from Christ the Life , in vvhich the Spirit is received , condemneth all such thoughts , for they proceed out of that heart which is not upright before the Lord , neither is it set to seek the Lord in that way in vvhich he and his Spirit is found . Again , I. S. talking of the Scriptures , intrudes into things which he hath not seen , comparing it with that which he hath seen ; and so in what he saith , he is blind , saying , The Scripture is a more standing Rule than Visions . To which I ansvver , The night is upon him that he hath no vision , and therefore doth not know vvhat a Vision is a rule unto , nor the continuance of it , as those in Israel , which said that every vision faileth , and so vvould not have them a standing Rule ; and that Reproach of the Visions of God were so common , that it vvas become a proverb amongst them ; but the Prophet vvho vvas in the Light , and had the vision of the Lord , & had the Word of the Lord , he was to reprove that proverb , and to tell them , that they should no more use it as a proverb in Israel , and said , The dayes are at hand , and the effect of every vision ; and so with the Light , who be in it , do now reprove all such proverbs and preachings against the visions of God ; for from the visions was the Scriptures spoken forth , and that which they had seen , they declared ; so that which gives forth words , is greater than the words , and without vision the people perish , and they may perish while they have the Letter ; but they cannot perish while they have the vision ; and although there be vain visions , they do not make the true of none effect . And although there be Sorceries and Enchantment , that doth not make the true resurrection of the dead of none effect ; but the blind must stumble at the things they do not see . Again J.S. s●ith , That the Authority of the Scriptures is owned ed among the Jews to this day . Ans. No ; Christ is not owned amongst them , who is the Authority and Power , unto which the Scriptures give testimony that he is so , neither are they yet converted , as thou thy self confessest ; and they who be in the unconverted estate , do not own the Authority of the Scriptures , though such may talk of them , as thou dost , speaking that of them which they never spoke of themselves . Again , I.S. saith in the 17. page , As deep things as the Spirit hath revealed , they are all in the Scripture . Ans. Nay , There were things revealed which were unutterable ; and many things which were revealed , and also written , which are not in the Scripture , as the Book of Nathan the Prophet , and the Prophesie of Ahijah the Shilomite , and the Visions of Iddo the Seer , which was against Jeroboam the son of Nebat , 2 Chron. 9.29 . And the Book of Shemath the Prophet , 2 Chron. 1.2 , 15. And the Book of Jehu . 2 Chron : 20.34 . and the Book of Gad the Seer , 1 Chron. 29.29 . and the Book of Jaser , 2 Sam. 1.18 . and the Prophesie of Enoch , who prophesied of the coming of Christ in his Saints , to execute Judgement upon all , and to convince all that are ungodly , of their ungodly deeds & hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him , as Jude beareth witness : And he also saw and prophesied of Israel according to the flesh ; that they should do wickedly , and sl●y him vvho was the light of the world ; And much more which is not written in the Bible ; And that which is manifest unto Paul , which he wrote to the Corinthians , in an Epistle , not to company with fornicators ; that whole Epistle is not in the Bible , 1 Cor. 5●9 . And likewise that which was revealed unto Paul in the dispensation of the grace of God given unto him , how that by revelation God made known unto him the mystry , which he wrote unto the Ephesians , in a few words , whereby they when they read , they might understand his knowledg in the mystery of Christ , which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men , as it was revealed unto his holy Angels and Prophets by the Spirit , which Epistle , in which that mystry was written , is not in the Bible , Ephesians 3.3 . And the Epistle which Paul wrote to the Laodiceans , which he charged the Colossians to read amongst them , ( and that theirs should be read in the Church of the Laodiceans ) wherein his thanks & prayers to God was for their stedfastnesse in the truth , wherein he made manifest the unprofitable talkers , who went about to draw them from the truth of the Gospel , and from their diligence in good works of eternall life , as many vain and unprofitable talkers are in the world now doing the same work . And whereas J. S. saith , That the Epistle of Paul to the Colossians was read as the Word of the Lord in the Church of the Laodiceans : Why doth he not bear witnesse that Paul's Epistle to the Laodiceans was read as the word of the Lord amongst the Colossians , Collossians , 4.16 . And if he read in his Church the Epistle to the Collossians as the Word of the Lord , why doth not he read to his people that which was written to the Laodiceans , they both being given forth from one Spirit ? So let him consider of those things above mentioned , and try whether his words will stand unreproveable , 67. page , saying , God might have revealed more than is in the Scripture , but he pleased not so to doe : In that page mentioning Samuel , Moses , and the Prophets , Christ and the Apostles , saying , All that they have spoken is written both according t● what was written before , and for substance the same . Answ. What I have spoken , and shall here speak , may sufficiently make manifest , that his words proceed from the old lying heart , in which dwells no truth ; for I have shewed out of the Prophets , and out of the Apostles many things which was both revealed and declared , which is not in the Bible written : And likewise I shall shew farther , of the things concerning Christ , testified by John , and we know that his Testimony is true , saying , And there are also many other things which Jesus did , the which if they should be written every one , I suppose that even the World it self could not contain the Books which should be written , John 21.25 . So that all is not written which was revealed , wrote and spoken , which if much more were written which was made m●nifest , by it with that which is written , could they not know the Lord , their mindes being from the light of Christ , which doth reveale and make manifest that which may be known of God in them . And many who have the Letter , and are Ministers of it , are sensual , having not the spirit , nor the word of God , nor the testimony of Jesus , and their Ministry is but as Chaffe to the Wheate , and the Lord is against them ; For what is the chaffe to the wheat ? saith the Lord , Jeremiah 23. Is not my word like a fire , saith the Lord , and like a hammer breaketh the rock in pieces ? Now many have the letter , and know not the word of the Lord as a fire , neither is the rock broken with the letter ; and such use their tongue , for it is their own , and the power of the Lord is not come over it ; such cause the People to err , and doth not profit them , being not sent , nor commanded of the Lord ; for who are sent and commanded of the Lord , the Lord useth their tongue● to speak his words , which he puts into their mouthes , and such words doth profite the people , and not cause them to err , being spoken according to the law , which is light ; And the testimony of Jesus , which is the Spirit of Prophesie ; and such do witnesse the Scriptures , that as they cannot be broken , so they cannot be denied by the Spirit which gave them forth to be a Declaration of those things which was revealed , known , and believed : But they are not that which they are a declaration of ; the letter testifies of the eternal life , but it is not it , neither gives it : It testifies of the light of the glorious Gospel shining in the heart , whih gives the light of the knowledg of the glory of God ; but it is not that light which gives that knowledge : It testifies of the Way , but Christ is the Way ; & of the Word , but God is the Word ; and of Redemption , but Christ is the Redemption , & not the Letter , though it testifies of Justification , & Sanctification , but they are wrought by the Word in the grace and power of Christ , and so every one who wil own the Scriptures , as they were given sorth to be owned , must first own that of God in them , which is manifest to work in the Creature , that which they testifie of , that Christ the power of God they may witness , working all their works in them , and for them , according to the Scripture . But contrary to the Scripture , J.S. from the root of Errour , saith , That the written letter is a Spirituall Arm , and Sword of the Spirit , and that the very power of the written letter puts Satan to flight : And in the same Page , saith , That the Devil hath Scripture in his mouth . Answ. Let the People take notice , and read the Scriptures , and see if there be any such thing , that the Sword of the spirit was ever in the Divels Mouth , for the spiritual Armour which is said to be the Word of God : But the Word of God , which is the sword of the Spirit , is that by which he is to be destroyed and is the mystery bid from him and all that follow his lusts : But though the Divell , which did not abide in the truth , and his Ministers who are out of the truth , may take the letter in their mouthes as they have done , and say it s written so , but the word of the Lord is not in their mouthe● , which is the sword of the Spirit ; and such will use the letter in their mouthes , which cannot sease from sin , whose eyes are full of Adultery , beguiling unstable Souls , their heart being exercised with coveteous practises ; cursed children , which have forsaken the right way , and are in the Error of Baalan , loving the wages of unrighteousnesse , and taking them , and such have the letter in their mouthes , but knows not the Word of God , wh●ch who comes but know , it restraines them from all such practises . Again , J.S. from his blindnesse and root of Error , and lying heart , wherein dwells no truth , but much confusion , saith , that the letter , i. e. the Scripture is the true ground of the believers Faith : and again in the same page saith , That Christ in the Scripture is the true Ground of Faith : And to prove the former , he brings Prov. 22.19 , 20 , 21. That thy trust may be in the Lord , I have made known to thee , this day even to thee ; have not I written to thee ●xcellent things in Councels and Knowledg , that I might make thee know the certainty of the words of truth that thou mightest answer the words of truth to them that send unto thee ? An. By this scripture the Lord is made the ground of Faith , & not the Letter : And therefore did the Prophet make known excellent things in writing , in counsel , and knowledge , & for this end did the Apostles both preach and write , that the Faith of those which heard them , & read their writings , might not stand in the wisdom of words , nor in the letter , as its ground , but in Christ the power of God , and Christ who preached the true doctrine , that in it every one might believe , said to the World , & the Pharisees , While ye have the light , believe in the light , that ye may be the Children of light , and these had the letter , but did not believe in the light , which light is Christ , and which light is the foundation of Faith , and is the foundation of many generations , in which many did believe ; before this letter which declares of it was written ; And that Faith which stands in the light , and in the power of God , is the ground of the Scripture letter , from whence it did proceed ; after they believed they spoke and wrote that which now is declared , in Chapters . And every one which coms to the true ground of Faith , must come co the light to believe in it , that they may be the Children of it , and then the Scriptures will be profitable unto them , they with the light having the understanding opened to see for what end they were given forth , and how they come to be fulfilled , and witnessed in that which gave them forth ; for the ground of Faith to believers is but one both before and since the Scripture was written , which is Christ , in whom whosoever believeth shall be saved , let Christ be in what he will , for he was the ground of Faith , when the letter was not ; and he is the ground of Faith when it is , and no other foundation for Faith can any man lay , than that which is laid , Jesus Christ who is the true light , and enlighteneth every man that cometh into the Word , that all men in him might believe ; and they that believe not that he is so , shall die in their sins , as Christ saith , John 8.24 . But J.S. going on in his own devised Fables , would pervert the words of truth , both in our writings , and in the Apostles , as it is manifest , in his writings , of this reviling Rebuke concerning , R.F. and J.N. E.B. and F.H. and others , which whosoever read their words , and his , they may discern truth from devised fables without much Reply upon it , as in places he is mingling his own words with theirs , joyning a lye to the truth that he may contradict it as false , as every one that reades with understanding will see , which when they have spoken plain truths , which he himself hath often in his Book confessed unto to be truth , will afterwards give his meaning to 〈◊〉 words , as he hath done unto the Apostles words , saying , If they meane thus , &c. Then he goes about to contradict his own meaning , and when he hath contradicted his owne meaning . ; then he saith he hath contradicted their words , though he have before confessed the truth of their words ; so he hath not contradicted the words as they were spoken , but because they spoke not his meaning with the words , therefore the true words must be false in his judgment , and bear his rebuke , as his Book doth make manifest , and adding his lye to the words of truth , these two things are his greatest proofs to resist the truth ; In page 77. he hath mingled his own words with the words of R.F. in w●ich page he acknowledgeth a former addition , and yet reneweth another , R.F. having been speaking of the light which hath enlightened every man which cometh into the World , ( he adds ) which where it is ( and it is in every man , it reneweth the judgment , &c ) he here adding his own , and then rebuking it , would make people believe lyes , that all might be damned who believ not the truth . But on the contrary , for we never have said that every mans judgment , is renewed with the ligbt , though they be enlightened ; for they are enlightened who ha●e it , and who are void of true judgement because they hate the light which they be enlightened withal . And also the Apostles words he perverts and gives meaning unto , which if he did not they would be a plain testimony with that which he hath set himself to oppose , so giving meanings both to their word● and our words , his meanings must be the ground of his Believers Faith , and not the Scriptures , as he said before . The Apostle Peter speaking of a more sure Word of Prophesie , wherein they did well to take heed , as unto a light that shineth in a darke place , till the day dawn , and the day-star arise in their hearts , 2 Pet ▪ 1.19 . knowing this first , that no Prophesie of the Scriptures is of any private interpretation ; for the Prophesie came not in old time by the will of man , but holy men of God spake as they were moved of the holy Ghost . To this J.S. adds not heart-prophesie , no breast-prophesie , but written down in Books , &c. which is contrary to the Apostls words ; for he doth not exclude heart-prophesie , for there was never any prophesie but did proceed out of the heart before it was written in any Book . And the Apostle saith , Untill the day dawn , and the day-star arise in your hearts , and that holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the holy Ghost , and that vvhich moved them to speak Prophesies was in their hearts , and the Apostle did not bid them wait till the day star did arise in the Scriptu●es , but till it did rise in their hearts , and then he told them how the Prophesies of the Scriptures came . Peter saying . Untill the day dawn , and the day-star arise in our hearts , J.S. saith , That is untill by the study of the Scriptures , more light he cleered up , &c. Now let all them of understanding , read , and compare his words , & the Apostles , and they may well conclude with his confession , that he hath an old lying heart , and flesh , in which dwells no truth , but the root of errour and gainsaying of the truth ; and as for many others of his devised fables , and false meanings , though I let them passe here unanswered , yet they may be seen with the mind informed in the truth ; and all who are of God , and of the truth , may know that it is a small matter for us to be rebuked , or judged to be in confusion , who so evidently hath confounded both our words , and the Apostles , into his owne false meanings , and so contradicts them both ; but that remaineth sure which gaves forth the Scriptures , and abideth in us , and we know that they cannot be broken , but must be fulfilled , as they were given forth by the Word , which they were given forth from , by taking heed unto which the young mans way is cleansed , & by which the old lying heart , is reproved ; that which was given forth from that Spirit , cannot be by it denyed ; but that which would darken words without knowledg is denyed ; that which would set up devised fables above Christ , the Spirit , and Scriptures , that by the Spirit is denyed without contradiction , and as we shall by the Spirit , and by the Scriptures trye John Stelhams Doctrin● ; which if he deny them both , then by his owne Argument we shall prove him , and see whether he will own himself to be judged by that with which he would judge others , whether they be Messengers sent by Gods Spirit : His Assertion laid down Page 60. to try withall , is this : Such Messengers as speak more than is in the Scripture , are not sent by GOD'S Spirit nor guided by him to what they say . By this then is all that of him before mentioned , cast out , being both more , and contrary to what is in the Scripture ; as also that which is to be declared , as followeth in his second head , as he calls it , of Scripture Contradiction ; he is speaking concerning a Trinity , and three Persons : which words are not spoken in the Scriptures , he meaning the Father , Son , and Spirit , by such name● as the Scripture never did , & so about words & names which the Scripture doth not mention , arsing out of the Divination of his heart doth he multiply words to hide the truth and shu● the Kingdom from men , and so hath no ground for the word three persons from the Scripture ; but the Scripture in one translation speaking of Christ being the express Image of the Fathers Pe●son , and in another ●ranslation saith , that he is the expresse Figure of the Fathers substance as he is witnessed to be by those that know him ; and so till he find the word three persons and Trinity in the Scriptures , let him owne his own rule to judg him , to be no Messenger sent by God● Spirit , because he speakes more than is in the Scripture , who saith , the holy Ghost is a Person , and this person dwells in Saints , though not personally : ( mark this ) A Person dwell in the Saints not personally : all this confusion is as tares , which men gather , which must be bound in bundles and cast into the fire ; for what is the Chaff to the Wheat , or what is all such invented words to the knowledg of the Father , Son , and Spirit , which are one , which bear record in heaven ? and are three that beare witnesse in earth , the Spirit , and Water , and the Blood , and these three agree in one , and when these are known in their witnesse in man , what they witnesse unto , and what they witnesse againsti within and without , such will give them names according to their works , and according to the Scriptures . The Third head of John Stelhams Scripture Contradiction is concerning the light which every man is enlightened withall ; which of all things is most hated by all such whose wayes , words , & works , are contrary ot it ; for it being risen in the hearts of the Children of men , to give the knowledge of the truth , hath in this day made many wiser than their Teachers ; and now they which have caused people to err , are by the light seen , and by the Children of light are denyed : and they being denyed , their envie is up against the light which hath made them manifest ; and they walk not by the light , nor according to the Scriptures , bu● there is a line of confusion comes over them ; by which now they walk , and from which their writings doth proceed , as John Stelham in page 52. saith , they may affirm agreeable to the Scripture , and yet contradict the Scriptures in saying Christ is in every man , or that the light in every man leades to the Father ; & saith , Christ , God , or as God is in every man , & a spark of his god-head-light is in every man ; but there is not in every man that redemption light which leads to the Father . That light which Christ hath enlightened every man withal leads to the Father , all who are led by it , and believe in it , and condemns all from the Father which do not obey it , but hate it , and speak dispitefully against it , who are turned out from God who is light and truth , into the confusion , saying , that the God-head-light is not the Redemption-light ; but with the light that Lye and confusion is judged for ever : and in affirming that the God-head-light is in every m●n , and then calling it common and old Creation-light , & Scripture-light , pag. 61. and the light of Nature , page 74 , 75 , and a legall light , page , 76. and a created light , page , 78. and an universal light , ( unto which I say , ) as God is , so is his light , & so is his god-head not created , nor natural ; and as every one comes to know the light , which by J.S. is so reviled , they shal neither follow , nor believe his Doctrine , till he can prove when the light of the God-head was created , and how it became natural , or legal ; or where he had those names , for the Scriptures doth give no such names to the light ; & so by his own rule he speaking more than is in the Scripture , is not a Messenger sent by Gods spirit , nor guided by it in what he s●ith . As also in other things , as in Pag 64. saying , That light without S●ripture is no light : Then Enoch's light in which he walk'd wi●h God was no light , nor Jacobs light , nor Isaacs , nor Abrahams ; for they were without these Writings , & this letter which he calls the Scriptures ; but they were not without light : And thousands have so much light , whether they have the S●riptures or not , as to see this darkness , as to say light , though saving light without Scripture is no light ; did the Scriptures make the light to be light , and was the saving light made by that which was written ? let all take notice & turne away from such : in another place he calls the Scripture but the declaration that Christ is the Word , & calle●h them a Vessel that the light is put into , in p. 43. & 44 Now let them of understanding consider & judg whether the vessel be the maker of that which is put into it , & whether Wine that is put into a Bottle be made wine by the Bottle , or whether it is not Wine without the bottle , & Water put into a vessel be not W●ter without the vessel , or whether the vessel make it to be Water : J.S. saith , Every verse of Scripture is a little vessel of light , & that light without scripture is no light ; so these things have I laid open , that every one may see how the Lord hath turned wise men backward , and made their Wisdom foolishness , and that they may see how those stumble and fall , and are snared and taken , whose light is turned into darkness , and hovv great that darkness is ; and novv is the Scripture not denied , but fulfilled ; for now is the Light and Truth come into the World , by which they are found to be blind , who said they saw , and in which they see , that vvere blind : And now the depths are seen vvhich are covered vvith darkness , and Babylon is seen , the Mother of Harlots , which bring forth in confusion , and bind up in ignorance . Other confusions and lyes I shall also mention , given forth by J.S. in his Book . As p. 68. he saith , that God was and is the Word , according to John 1.1 . and in p. 69. he saith , The Father is not the Word , nor never so called ; ( which is a contradiction . ) And in p. 70. saith , Christ is more in the Scriptures , than in his Saints , ( vvhich is false ) for greater vvas that vvhich the vvords came from , than the vvords , vvhich did but declare of the fulness from vvhence they came , as all that know Christ wil bear witness unto , and against all such that say Christ is more in the words , than in them who spake the words . Again in p. 73. he saith , Christ the Author of salvation to them that obey him , speaking in the Scripture , saveth by the Scripture ; which is false , and contrary to the testimony of the Scriptures , and the witness of them who witnessed his salvation , who said , By his Life are we saved , and by Grace through faith , which was the gift of God , and not by the Letter , and their Witness was true for God and his Works , and against all such who are of a lying heart , and spirit of error , who would make the Letter to be the Light ; yea more , even that vvhich makes light to be light , and so greater ; for that vvhich makes a thing , is greater than a thing that is made ; and would have the Letter to be the Word , when as the Letter saith , God is the Word ; and would make the Scriptures to be that by which people are saved , as in p. 73. saying , Christ saveth by the Scriptures ; but the Scriptures speak no such thing of themselves ; for they say , there is no other name under Heaven by which men can be saved , but by the name of Jesus ; neither is there such a word written in the Bible , that saith , men are saved by the scriptures , nor that the Light of the God-head is natural , as I. S. saith , that he may set up a light of scriptures , as he calleth it . And he speaks in p. 82. of having our minds darkned with the light of Scriptures : Mark , doth that light which he hath in all his Book been exalting above the God head-light , & above that Light which Christ hath enlightned every man withal , darken mens minds ? What is it then that must enlighten them ? Here is his testimony of the Light brought up to the ful , that all who can receiv it , may believ it , for he saith to us , if our minds were not darkned with the light of the Scriptures , the two texts in Rom. 10.18 . and Col. 1.23 . might resolve us how the Gospel is preached to every creature , & not to the principle of Light in the Conscience ; how can the Scripture resolve us of the Light , if it darken our minds ? But by these things this is made manifest , that darkness hath blinded his eyes , that he neither knows the Light , nor the Scriptures which were given forth from it . Again , Another of his contradictions concerning the Light , in pag. 23 , 24. compared with pag. 75. is this , saying , the Light that shined in Pauls heart , and the Light that shineth in the Scripture , is the same Light ; and God who shineth in the heart by Gospel-light , according to the Apostles words , 2 Cor. 4.4 . contratrary unto which in his 75. page , he saith , That the Gospel-light about matters of salvation , of which the Apostle speaks , never entered , never shined into mens hearts . Ans. To this let all take notice , and consider , whether of these two Contraries they are to believe ; The one saying , God shineth in their hearts by Gospel-light ; and the other saith , It never entered nor shined into mens hearts : But if the Scriptures or the Apostle is to believed , he saith , For God who-commanded the Light to shine out of darkness , hath shined in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ ; but we have this Treasure in Earthen Vessels , that the excellency of the power may be of God , and not of us , 2 Cor. 4.6 , 7. Here was the light of the Gospel shining in their hearts in matters of salvation , giving them the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ ; and they were the Vessels in which the light did shine , and from which they spoke the hidden Wisdom of God in a mystery ; and so that which they spoke of the Light , and of the Gospel , is yet a mysterie unto such whose eye is blinded with the god of this world , and the wayes of unrighteousness , knowing neither the light nor the Gospel of salvation , but filling up their iine of confusion , as hath been already manifest , and may further be made manifest . Again , John Stelham in his sixth Head of Scripture-contradiction , speaks concerning the Law , and goes about to distinguish between the two Covenants which the Scriptures speak of , but knows not what he speaketh , nor of what he affirmeth , but contrary to the Scriptures , speaking of a Moral and Ceremonial law , which the Scriptures speak of no such words , nor no such distinctions , as of a Moral law to be the Covenant of Works , and th●t the Ceremonial law is not a Covenant of Works , but of Grace . And whereas he tells of a Covenant of Nature , which is one with the Covenant of Works ; and so here is several Covenants which J. S. hath made , and several Names here given to the Covenants , which God never gave , nor they which spoke of the Covenants never gave such names to the law in the words of Scripture , as Moral , Legal , Natural , Ceremonial ; so that is all without , and contrary to the Scripture language . And whereas he goeth about to prove Adam to be under a moral law , wdich he calls a law of Works , but hath no Scripture to prove it from , but from his suppositions ; as thus : If it was not of Grace , it was a Covenant of works : And again , if the Covenant of works was not made with Adam in innocency , God could not in justice require satisfaction of his posterity under the fall ; &c. A third supposition to prove Adam under a Covenant of Works , is this : Either he stood under a Covenant of Works , or was under the Covenant of Grace , or he was under no Covenant , &c. Unto which I answer ; All such Priests and Teachers who be out of innocency themselves , cannot tell what Covenant those are in with God , who are innocent , and in the Image of God , in holiness and righteousness ; and therefore from such have we so much perverting of the Scriptures , and violating of the law of God , to make it according to their imaginations : But unto such God saith , What hast thou to do to declare my Statutes , or that thou shouldest take my Covenant into thy mouth , seeing thou hatest instruction , and castest my words behind thee ? Psal. 50.16 . Thou givest thy mouth to evil , and thy tongue frameth deceit : But I say , That Covenant in which Adam was with God in his innocency , and in his image , he stood in that , and by that by which he was made a living soul , and in that was in unity and covenant with God , for the disobedience of which , he was driven out from God into the earth ; and none were under the Law of Works , neither was that Law added , uhtil there was transgression , which it was added because of it ; but that which is innocent , and without sin , unreproveable in God's sight , is under no Law , but that which endureth for ever , which doth free from sin and death those that be in it , which is made manifest unto some since the fallihg from it , and which the Isles are to wait for , till it be made manifest , where it is not al●eady revealed ; and all who come to have right to speak of God's precepts , and to take his covenant into their mouths , they see and comprehend all such darkness , which doth not speak according to words of Scripture , but speaks of three Covenants , contrary to Scripture , saying , that the first Covenant promiseth nothing of salvation , nor mentioneth nothing of a Saviour ; and yet saith , that , that Covenant is a part of God's Word , and his Will and pure Law , ( and yet mentioneth nothing of a Saviour ) and again saith , that the Moral Law he calls of Works , which promiseth no salvation , mentioneth nothing of a Saviour ) that this which mentioneth nothing of a Saviour , is to be a directory and rule to true believers , for the ordering of their sanctification ( as it is also in Christ's hand , guiding them by his Spirit ) so this cannot build nor join together , and so time to cease building any more in confusion ; but in denial of that false doctrine , I say , That there is but two Covenants spoken of in the Scriptures , which is a plain testimony of them , without any such confusion or contradiction , as the Apostle to the Hebrews , saying , In that he saith a new Covenant , he hath made the first old , &c. And in the first Covenant , as you may read Heb. 9. In all these things there was Christ held out and mentioned in the shadows and figures ; and so that Covenant which promiseth no salvation , nor mentioneth any thing of a Saviour , that we deny ; for there is no such Covenant in the Scripture● ; — For that which said , Do this , and live , promised life , and mentioned Christ who is the life ; and by Christ who is the Life and Light of men , is that Covenant fulfilled ; and by his Power both the obedience and life is brought forth , of which that Covenant speaketh ; and the new Covenant being come that God hath promised , wherein he hath put his Law in their hearts , and his Spirit in their inward parts , and all such need not to come to such Priests to be taught , who tel of a Covenant which promiseth no salvation , nor mentioneth any thing of a Saviour ; for we who be in the second , know the first fulfilled , which Christ was held forth in , under Ordinances of Divine service , and a Worldly Sanctuary , and divers washings , and carnal Ordinances , which never made the comers thereunto perfect as pertaining to the Conscience . But now is Christ the Covenant of God , and Covenant of Light , come and preached , and with his Light shineth in mens Consciences , that he may make perfect as pertaining to the Conscience ; which Covenant is now witnessed among thousands , and such denyed who speak of a Covenant that mentions nothing of a Saviour , and that to be the Rule of true believers . Again , in John Stelham's fifth head of Scripture-contradiction , he speaks concerning sin , saying , That the more a soul is sanctified . the more he sees his moats to be beams ; and that Paul was groaning and sighing all his life-time under the body of sin and death . Both these are false ; for the more a soul is sanctified , he is not the more taught to lye , or to see falsly ; but the more he is taught to see clearly , and discern a moat to be a moat , and a beam to be a beam , and knows the difference . And Paul thanks God who had given him the victory over sin and death , which he had not while he groaned under the body of it ; and so both the Saints and the Work of sanctification , is falsly accused by such , and such are to be denied as Enemies to God , and to his Work. In the reading of this , let all people take notice , that in the several and particular heads of J. S. Book , where he saith , he hath contradicted us , he is proved himself to contradict the Scritures ; and so far as he contradicts the Scriptures in those particulars , so far he may say he contradicts us , our testimony being one with the Scriptures in those things . Pr. For in his sixth head , as concerning Justification , he saith , He that is justified , is justified by God , not under the aspect or notion of a Saint , and as such , but of a sinner , and as a sinner believing in Jesus , not as he loveth God , or overcometh the world by Faith , &c. but as believing on Christ dying , &c. Now this testimony of J. S. is contrary to the Scripture ; for God never justified any as hating of him , nor as a sinner , but as made obedient through faith , according to the Scriptures , as the Apostle witnesseth , Gal. 2.16 . Even by the faith of Jesus Christ , even we have believed in Jesus Christ , that we might be justified by the faith of Christ , &c. so they believed , that they might be justified ; and the ungodly they were first called out of their ungodliness ; and whom he called , them he also justified ; and they whom he justified , them he also glorified ; and by him all that believe are justified from all things from which they could not be justified by the Law of Moses , Acts 13.39 . And so all who are justified by the Lord , are justified from their sins , and not in them , as all shall witness who come to be justified by Christ from their iniquity . And whereas J.S. vvould set the Law and Justice of God at a difference with the Gospel , and as contrary , in saying , The Law and Justice finds and leaves us sinners , Gospel and Mercy declareth and pronounceth us righteous : Now the one pronouncing a man to be righ●eous , and the other pronouncing the same to be a sinner , these two are contrary : But the Scripture hath another testimony , saying , Mercy and Truth are met together ; Righteousness and Peace have kissed each other , Psal. 85.10 Now here is unity ; here is not Righteousness pronounc●ng one thing , and Mercy another ; for the righteousnesse of God is revealed from Heaven against the disobedient ; and this vvill not leave them disobedient nor sinners , if ever they come to mercy ; for it doth not leave them as it finds them : And so that Doctrine is accurst from God , which saith , That Justice finds them sinners , and leaves them so ; and to say that Justice pronounceth them sinners , and Mercy pronounceth them righteous : But to satisfie all people , a few vvords may serve to answer the volume of that darknesse and blindnesse given forth by him before-mentioned ; should a man full of vvords be justified ? Job 11.2 . Again , concerning J.S. in his seventh head concerning Regeneration , he saith , That the Word of God that is preached , was never without , or besides Scripture , &c. And as in other places he hath said , That the Spirit is given by the Letter , so here he vvould make Regeneration to proceed from it ; which this being denied , he concludes it had been better the Scripture had not been known nor written . An. The Word and Gospel were preached unto Abraham without Scriptures , and before the Scriptures were written ; and they who are regenerated and born again , it is by the immortal Word which is able to save their souls ; which Word was before the Letter was written ; and who be begotten again , and born by that Word , it is profitable for such that the Scriptures were written & given forth , and the Scripture by such is honored ; but such who call the Letter the Light and the Word , and that which begets again into the new birth , by such both the Work of God is despised , and the Scriptures perverted and denied . Again J. S. in his 8. Head of Contradiction , speaking of perfection , uttereth forth more confusion and contradiction to himself , in his speaking of the Communion of the Saints in Heaven , and doth lye concerning the Saints on earth , saying , the Saints in Heaven hoped for the perfection of their bodies at the Resurrection , &c. And again contradicts that , in saying , that at death they have a final perfection , and a full harvest , and reward of peace , &c. Ans. Now this is the issue , that all people may take notice he hath so envied perfection and Christ's Doctrine , which saith , Be ye perfect as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect : And them who now preach that Doctrine , that he hath set out a Volume to declare against the Saints being perfect here ; yea , and his envy hath reached to Heaven , to prove that the Saints in Heaven are not perfect , but wait for the redemption of their bodies ; which now if people mind the Scripture , there is no such doctrine in it as the Saints in Heaven have not received the Redemption of their bodies ; for they who had received the first fruits of the Spirit upon earth , did wait for the adoption ; and for the redemption of the body , till the creature it self be delivered into the glorious liberty of the sons of God , Rom. 8. And this was witnessed , and is witnessed ; and this is the Work of the Worlds Teachers , instead of presenting them perfect in Christ Jesus , as the Apostles did , they would make people believe that the Saints in Heaven their bodies are unredeemed ; if so , where is that redemption wrought ? And whereas I. S. vvould make people believe , that there are none clean ; novv Christ said concerning those that follovved him , Now are ye clean through the Word which I have spoken unto you , John 15.3 . And David saith , that the Lord is good unto such as are of a clean heart , Psal. 73.1 . And the Lord said concerning his people , that he would pour clean water upon them , and they should be clean from all their filthiness , Ezek. 36.25 . and this Prophesie was to be fulfilled : And the Lord said also by his Prophet Zephaniah , That his Remnant should do no iniquity , nor speak lyes , neither should a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth , Zeph. 3 . 1·3 . And Paul preached Wisdom among them that were perfect ; and as many as were perfect , should be so minded ; and Christ preached to the pure in heart , that they should see God , Matt. 5. Now if there were none perfect , Christ preached unto such as there was not . Now this is the chief ground of J. S. and the rest of the Enemies of truth and of perfection , to declare against it , because some fall from it ; as his instance of C. A. or others in the like , To which I answer , Their falling into that which is not perfect , doth not make that which they fall from , imperfect ; for the Angels that kept not their first state , which was perfect , did fall from that which was perfect . A Virgin state is perfect ; but if any go out of that state , and become foolish , yet that which they depart from , is perfect : And if any do fall from the Truth , and do not abide in Christs Doctrine , that doth not make his Doctrine to be imperfect ; for Christ saith , Except they abide in him who is perfect , they cannot bring forth fruit : Is not he that is in Christ perfect , though some do not abide in him ? And is not the Truth Truth , because some deny it ? Was not Christs Doctrine and the Apostles true , because Demas did forsake it , and love the present World ? And was not that part of the Ministry which Judas had committed unto him , perfect ? And was not he the true Christ that Judas preached , though afterwards he betrayed him ? Now if people do but truly consider all those that now do turn from the way of Truth , which is now preached , and lived in by us , it may be an evident token to justifie us in the Way of Truth , seeing what they go into when they go from the Light which Christ hath enlightened them withall , which while they abide in it , are kept out of all filthiness of flesh and spirit , and so long they may speak of perfection , and of the gift of God which is perfect : But if any go from the Light , then they are let at liberty to act all uncleanness with greediness , and so are cast out from us , and from perfection : And if any such deny the Truth , and forsake it , yet there remains in them a witness for the truth , and against their own uncleanness , as in C. A. who from the Witness of God in him was made to confess , that if he had continued in the Light of Christ , he could not have so sinned against the Lord , and so by his transgression fel from the way of Life , and could not continue in Christs Doctrine any longer ; & so such things may satisfie people concerning the way of Truth ; for while they are of us , all such things is denyed by them ; but when they go out from us , then they become Drunkards , Swearers , Prophane , Adulterers , Fornicators , and so every evil Work is committed , and then they turn to the Priests Doctrine , there all such things are , and are excused ; and then the Priests rejoice and give thanks if any turn from the Light of Christ , and the obedience of the Gospel , into drunkenness and prophaneness again , where they were before ; and if they wil but swear and respect mens persons , and use the rod of violence , and pers●cute and shed the blood of the innocent , and be conformable to the World , that is the Priests rejoicing ; and if any turn from the truth into any act of uncleanness , then they take that as a proof against those that abide in the truth ; and such a thing is a better proof to them then all the Scripture ; and those are they that rejoice in iniquity , and watch for evil , and so they rejoice in that which we have cast out as abomination ; and these are they that plead for a life in sin while they are here , and that say that the saints glorified in Heaven do yet hope for the resurrection of their bodies , and so not come to the end of their hope though in Heaven ; when as the Saints upon earth witnessed the end of their hope , the salvation of their souls . Now these may wel deny perfection on earth , who deny it in heaven , which the Saints , we , and the Scriptures do witness it in both , and against all such who are not fit to speak of the things of God. Again , in his ninth Head of contradiction , he speaks of a warfare ( which yet himself never came unto ) and in it he wrests Pauls words , and so would turn the truth into a lye , saying as if Paul should say thus : If sin that wars and sights in me , hath no power to condemn me , then there is no condemnation to me : Which words Paul never spake , and it is a lye in the ground ; for it is not sin that is the condemnation , but the Light which lets men see their sins , because men love darkness rather than light , as many in this age have manifested themselves to do , and the light shall be their condemnation , who are not yet come to the War , nor to the Victory which the Scripture speaks of . Again in his tenth Head of contradictions speaking of repentance , as if he would prove that we denyed or disclaimed godly sorrow ; and his proof is this ; If we disclaim in-dwelling sin in the godly , we disclaim godly sorrow . Let all people take notice of this , If we deny in-dwelling sin , we deny godly sorrow ; this is contradiction in the highest degree ; but against it , this I shall affirm , that none comes unto godly sorrow , but they deny in dwelling sin ; and they that do not deny in-dwelling sin , denies godly sorrow . Again , John Stelham in his eleventh Head of contradictions to the Scripture , in his speaking of the Word and means of Grace , he is setting up that which before he hath been pulling down , in p. 123. where he saith , That they are justified from all Legal obligations and conditions of their own workings both within them & without them . And in page 174. he is setting up obligations and conditions of Reading , Hearing , Prayer , Preaching , to which he saith Life and Salvation is promised ; and so would have salvation come by Works , which he hath so much declared against before , and so makes prayer , reading , preaching , &c. not only the means through which salvation comes , but the cause for which they are saved , saying , To Prayer is promised salvation . Now to the informing of the minds of people , I say , That all promises are to the Seed , and the fulfilling of the promises is witnessed through its obedience to Christs command , and through the Works of righteousness ; but none can pray so as to be heard of God , and accepted , but who have first known , heard and believed him whom they call upon , which none do but who own th● Light which Christ hath enlightened them withal , which teacheth to pray , hear , read and preach with knovvledge and understanding , Again J.S. in his tvvelfth head concerning baptism , vvould go about to prove the sprinkling of Infants to be the baptism , and so denyes both Johns , and Christs , and the manner of them , and sets up another vvhich the Scripture doth not mention , as sprinkling Infants , which vvho reads his Books , may see his proofs ; by consequences he would have the Scripture speak that which it never mentioneth in plain precepts , and so would turn the truth into a lye and so by his own rule in the 68. page of his Book shall he be judged ; Such Messengers as speak more then is in the Scripture , are not sent by Gods spirit , nor guided by him to what they say . But that all people may come to a right understanding of the Scriptures , and that vvhich is testified by them , is to come to the Light which Christ hath enlightened them withal , which Light was before Ordinances were , and vvhich Light gives to see the place of Ordinances , and their time vvherein they are to be obeyed ; for the Light comes from the substance of all the divers vvashings , and carnal Ordinances , and it leads into the one Baptism vvhich is the substance of that of Water , vvhich John vvho vvas a prophet , vvas the Minister of ; and Ch●ist said unto his Disciples , John verily baptized with water , but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost and with fire ; but he never commanded them to baptize with water , but commanded them to go teach all nations , baptizing them into the name of the Father , Son and Holy Ghost ; and although some of the Disciples , and Paul for a time did baptize with water , yet who shall judge their permission in it ? although Paul an Apostle of Jesus Christ witnesseth , that he was not sent to baptize , but to preach the Gospel , 1 Cor. 1.17 . and thanks God that he had baptized no more of them , yet witnessed that they were all baptized with one spirit into one body . And J.S. saith , To be against Infant-baptism is contrary to Acts 2.28 , 29. This is false , for that Scripture doth not command it , nor give president for it ; let the Reader search if he find any such thing as the Scripture proving Infants baptism ; but the promise is to as many as the Lord shall call : And so he hath fouly belyed the Scripture ; for if that Scripture be contrary to such who are against Infants Baptism , then must he prove from that Scripture Infants baptism to be commanded as pr●ctised , which he cannot do , and so is a perverter of the Scripture : And it is truth that we do deny brain-imaginations and sprinkling Infants with water . But then he rambles over many Scriptures , proving the Baptisme of Believers ; these proofs are impertinent ; what is this to prove Infants baptisme ? So that is passed by here , as making arguments against believers baptism , except one professing that were our present Adversary ; but in this he is pursued from all the Scriptures ; he cannot prove in Justice that ever Infants Baptism was either commanded or practised , though he craftily wind about never so much in his imaginations and consequences . And in the general I answer , Much by us hath been written and spoken to this purpose ; so our judgements in this charge is fully known , of which we are not ashamed before men , as being fully justified herein in the sight of the Lord. And so as to that particular more need not be said . Again in the 12 th Head of Scripture-contradiction , as he saith , concerning the Lords supper J.S. makes much ado , because of our denial of carnal inventions and imitations practised by many in the exercise of that called the supper of the Lord , though with one heart and mind we say and witness , That Christs flesh and blood is our meat and drink , and none have life within them without it ; yet doth receive it in the spirit and power of God , and doth bear out testimony against imitations and false likenesses set up in the World , as the wicked and prophane people , such as live in pride and wickedness , and covetousness , both Teachers and people , eating a little bread , and drinking Wine so many times a year , in such a form , and manner , and way , as Christ nor his Apostles never practised such things in , and no change wrought among people , but both before and after ( if not in the very time ) fulfilling all wickedness and unrighteousness in words , and wayes , and thoughts , yet by false suggestion from their Teachers , believing vainly themselves to be the better , or saints for the practice of such things ; whereas they do the more thereby vex the Lords soul , and grieve his spirit by hypocrisie and deceit ; this we call carnal inventions , and do deny it in the presence of the Lord , that it is ev●l , and not accepted of God , but condemned in his sight . J. S. proves not that any thing which Christ instituted to be practiced among the saints onely , ever was practised in the World among such who are not called , neither sanctified ; and this is abomination to the Lord , to practise the saints words or ways , and have not the spirit of the Father , which we cannot see among the people of this age , no , nor manage them professing to be selected Church-Members , but pride and envy abounds among them all , and in that spirit of disobedience in which they live , to the Ordinances of Christ they have no right , to practice that which onely is to be practised among them that have the spirit of the Father , and nothing that Christ instituted for his saints , do we deny in its life and age ; but lives are changed , and Antichrist hath ruled , and even the things which once he instituted , your practice of them who are polluted , are an abomination to him . And this is a full answer in general as to the thing , though I pursue him not in every particular word and argument , to lay open his folly ; but our judgement in this is known ; he that can receive it , let him ; and the belief of the wicked we shall not beg : In these things we are approved of God , and in the denial of all false imitations ; and who is he that shall condemn ? In the 14 th Head , concerning Prayer . Concerning prayer , we do not contradict the scripture in our pract●ce , J.S. is the lyar herein , who hath made it a subject to treat two leafs upon ; for praying in the spirit , and by the spirit , and in publick and private too , we own , and do practice , as is known to thousands ; our Enemies can witness for us , and according to the scriptures too , and not contradicting to it any way : But this is the offence against him at which he is troubled , that we should deny the prayers of the Pharisees , or of such who are in the steps of the prayers of the Pharisees , viz. who for a pretence make long prayers , and stand praying in the synagogues , who are out of Christs and the Apostles Doctrine , and the prayers and practices of such we do not deny according to the scripture , which saith , the sacrifices of the wicked are abomination to the Lord ; and they shall receive greater condemnation who make long prayers for a pretence ▪ as it is manifest concerning many in this genetation , and against the praying of the Hypocrites , and of Hirelings , who pretend to pray in love to souls , when as if they had not a great sum of money from the people , would not pray among them , but seek a place to pray at , among such who would give them money and hire ; and this praying is for a pretence ; and we do deny it in publick , and do not offend God herein , though we vex J. S. hereby , because some wil not worship the Beast , and bow a hat off , while he is praying in an idols Temple , which he complains of in J.P. though he himself that , pray● hath a cap on ; and he confesses himself not wicked mens prayers are accepted , publick or private ; and here he hath condemned all his own praying , who confesses he is wicked and sinful , and his heart is old and lying ; let all take notice of this , which if he had not confessed it , it is sufficiently proved : Then why shall he ever hereafter be offended , ( seeing his prayers are not accepted according to his own confession ) if any tell him so , or declare against his praying ; and before any can truly pray , they must receive the Spirit of the Father ( and them we know who are not led by the Spirit of the Father ) them and their prayers are to be declared against by the Saints , and are condemned in the sight of God. And J. S. saith , If this counsel be followed , viz waiting in the Light till the Spirits leadings be known , it makes known nothing of publick Ministers , Church-Officers , Baptism , Lords Supper , publick order of prayer , nor of Christ as Mediator , nor of the Spirit of promise &c. The Light that every man hath , makes manifest nothing of this he saith ; he in this is a lyar , and as landerer of the people of God , who are led by the moving of the Spirit , in the Light of the Word Christ Jesus , that lighteth every man , and owneth the publick Ministry of Christ , which is received by the Holy Ghost , and Church , and Baptism , and Christ as Mediator , and the Spirit of promise , and all these things all the Saints upon earth , who have the spirit of Christ , shall witness against J.S. herein to be a lyar of the Light and Spirit of God , and so is a transgressor , and his wickedness may largely be laid open ; but the least of the children of Light may see his folly and madness , who also lyingly saith , that Quakers they nourish up people in the Light that every man hath , ( which is the Light of Christ Jesus ) in opposition to Scripture-Light : This is also utterly false , and a lye , and the Author proved to be of the Devil ; for the Light of Christ leads up in the fulfilling of the Scripture , and not in opposition to it ; but by his lightness and lyes he is made manifest to be a deceiver of the people ; and so take thy own words in thy conclusion to thy self ; thou art he that is alienated from the Scripture , and from the Spirit of God also , by thy lying spirit of contradiction , which is manifest in thy Writings . In his 15. Head concerning singing , We do not contradict the Scripture ; ( herein again thou art a lyar ) but singing with the spirit and with understanding we own , of such as are redeemed out of the World , and are not of the World ; but singing of David's experiences , sung in the World by such who are of the World , this singing we do deny , as it is practised in this generation , in Rhime and Meeter , in a vain multitude of people , where all or most of them do dishonor God in singing Davids words , which themselves are out of the life of , and in a life quite contrary ; singing the Law of God is dear to them , and that they exercise themselves in it , when every moment of time they are exercised in wickedness , and cast the Law of God behind them ; and thus singing lyes , and that which is not true to them , yet in the Name of the Lord. Other Reasons many may be given why we deny singing in this form , and manner , and way , as singing is practised in this generation ; but this instance is sufficient to all honest people ; but cavillers mouths are not soon stopped , not by the truth : And all J. S. professes as to maintain this manner and practice of singing , are all impertinent ; he proves that the saints sang , and were exhorted to it ; but what is this to the purpose to prove the World must sing , who are unconverted ? which singing we oppose onely , and not the saints singing in 〈◊〉 spirit , who are moved to it by the spirit . O thou lyar ! Wher●fore dost thou say , To be against singing Davids words ( by the World in Rhime and Meeter ) as we do , is contrary to Eph. 5. Col. 3. doth these scriptures hold forth any such thing , ( let the Reader try ) as that Davids experiences may be sang in the World in Rhime and Meeter ? nay , they do not ; and so thou art a lyar on the scriptures , to be taken notice of , and marked for a wrester of the scriptures ; and in this we have often declared our minds by words and writings , that poetry , and J. Hopkins and T. Sternolds brain-invention we have denied ; yet Davids Psalms w● have owned , and do own them , as they were given forth by the spirit of God , and not as they are perverted , and added , and diminished to such a compass of syllables as they are now in practice ; and thus I have given you a further testimony for , and against singing , wherein we deny it , and wherein we own it , and so leaves his muddy stuff , and so counts it not worth raking in ; onely a lye or two , or more he is proved in , as the Reader may take notice also of one thing more , where he charges R. F falsly to speak falshood , for saying the priests of England they teach people to sing lyes in hypocrisie ; this they do , and do wi●kedly in it ; and he hath added to their wickedness in denying it to be so ; for to all people without exception , they give to sing , I am not puft in mind , nor have a scornful eye , and they making not exception in giving forth these psalms to sing : Some that they give it forth to , are puft in mind , and have scornful eyes ; and these they teach to sing lyes in hypocrisie ; to any honest man this appears true , let J. S. shuffle and twist never so much . In the 16 th Head concerning Elders and Ordination . We do not herein contradict the Scripture , but witnesse forth according to it , that who are moved by the Spirit of God to watch over the Flock , and ordained with gifts thereunto , may take the oversight of the Flock wittingly , and of a ready mind , and not by constraint , nor for filthy lucre sake , as J. S. and his generation of false Teachers , who preach for hire , and for gifts and rewards ; such are not ordained of God to watch over the Flock , but run , and were never sent , and therefore shall not profit people at all ; and such an ordination we deny , who are ordained at schools , or by natural arts and sciences to speak their brain-study by a Glass , this is by man , and not of God , and God doth deny it , and we testifie against it by the spirit of God , and do say , The call to the true Ministry and Eldership , is not by man , nor of man , but by the Lord , according to Gal. 1.1 . yet such a one is approved of all the Saints , and go forth not contrary to men who fear the Lord ; for the spirit of life is one in them that are called and ordained by it , and in them that beareth witn●ss to truth what such doth approve with the spirit that are called by ●he spirit . This is our judgement , and the judgement of Truth , what ever J. S. or any of his fellows raise up to oppose it ; and herein we do not contradict the Scriptures ; he is that lyar in the subject matter on which he treats in the title of the Section . In his 17 th Head concerning Ministers Maintenance . Concerning this we do no way contradict the Scripture , but witnesseth according to it , that the Ministers of Christ doth receive freely , and gives freely of what they have received from God , and haveing plan●ed a vineyard , may eat the fruit of it , and keeping a flock , may eat of the milk of the flock : and when they go into a house , may eat such things as are set before them , and yet may not be chargeable to any man , and this is according to Christs instructions , & not contradictory to the Scriptures , though J. S. be pleased to so stile it , but all such who preaches for hire , or takes hire for preaching , and seeks for their gain ( for 50 l. or 60 l. per annum , or the like ) from their quarter ( a Parish or Town ) and such who take Tithes , Gifts , and Rewards for preaching , which people should not give them except they preached , and such who have sums of money , and lives in pleasures and vanities , and lust , and fulness of the Flesh , as the Priests of England do , ( this maintenance we do deny ) and them that act those things , we deny to be Ministers of Christ , or that any Maintenance by way of Ministry doth belong to such who are greedy dumb doggs , and can never have enough , as Isa. 5 , 6. such practises and men we oppose , and doth no whit contradict the Scripture , but it witnesseth to us herein , and against all such ; and therefore I. S. and his B●ethren the Independe●ts who acts such things , they contradict the Scripture , and so are truly guilty themselvs in action of what they falsely accuse us in words ; for such who walks in the steps of the false Prophets , as he and they doth that preach for hire , and takes Gifts and Rewards for preaching , are contrary to all the true Ministers of Christ , and the Scripture ; and the Spirit that gave it forth condemns them , and much as to this we have publickly spoken , and written , and so here I need say the less , though much might be said to manifest I. S. folly and vanity ; though they that plant a vineyard may justly eat the fruit thereof : yet what is this to purpose ? he is a thief that eats of the fruit of that which he hath no● planted , but is hired thither for so much per Sermon , or per annum , and plants nothing for the Lord ; & he that preaches the Gospel , may live of it ; but this shames I. S. and this Generation of Teachers , who many of them might begg bread at peoples doors , had they not a Law by violence to compel maintenance from them ; which thing is a very shame to all righteousness , which is practised by most of the Priests of England at this day , grievous to be related , what unjust Judgements against them for to maintain Ministers , so called ; what is the thing that J. S. pleads for Tithes , or an hundred or two hundred pound a year ? he is a Lyar , to say that we contradict the Scripture , because we cannot uphold this , but must bear witnesse against it : so whilst he falsely charges us with contradicting the Scripture , in the very same thing he and his Generation are found in this practice contrary to all the Ministers of Christ that ever was sent by him , and in the very practice of the Deceivers , Antichrists , and False-Prophets , in making merchandize of people through covetousnesse , in preaching for hire , and in seeking for their gain from their quarters ; and this is the very truth , let J. S. and all his fellows read their own contradiction to the Example of all the Ministers of Christ , in their cu●sed practice of Maintenance , which is the greatest oppression this day in England : and this is their grief against us , because God hath opened our mouths to declare against them , and to shew their solly and wickednesse unto all people : and when the Law of the Land ceaseth to maintain them , which will come sooner than they expect , then may they beg their bread , or perish for want ; and that is all the fruit that their Vineyard of wilde Brambles will bring forth to them : and if every particular of his words should be searched , much rottennesse might be let forth : but in plainnesse I have spoken , as to the truth of things in pleading for truth , and in denying the Deceits , and the Oppression of Hirelings , which I cannot call Ministers Maintenance . His 18 th . He●d concerning immediate Calling . In this we do not contradict the Scripture . J.S. is a Lyar herein also ; but we say , Such as are called of God , are called by his Spirit , and led with it , and fulfills the will and work of God in the Spirit ; and such as are called by the Spirit of God , are approved by all the Saints of God , who with the same Spirit bear witnesse to such as are called by it , and speaks by it : The Ministry of God is not of Man , nor by Man , but by the Revelation of Jesus Christ , which is not learned by natural Arts , but received in the Holy Ghost ; and this the Scripture bears wirnisse to ; but the Call to the Ministry , by natural Learning at Oxford , and Cambridge , this I deny , and trample upon ; and all your Arts , and knowledge , and Humane Study , and Languages , is not able to make a Minister of Christ , ( this I do affirme ; ) though they approve one another , yet are they not approved of God without his Spirit ; and they that have his Spirit , deny Natural Learning , as to be made a Minister of Christ hereby : and E.B. his words are owned , transcribed by J.S. cited Page 16. in the Warning , &c. and all that he saith , doth not prove , that any of the Ministers of Christ were called by the Church , or approved unto that work of the Ministry , by them who were not called by the Spirit , and guided with it ; he saith , the sending of God is two-fold , and for this he hath no Scripture to prove it , and so holds forth that which the Scripture will not evidence : And further he saith , he pretends to no such Call of an Apostle ; if he have not the same Call , by the same Spirit as the Apostles had , he is no Minister of Christ , and in measure he hath confessed to be without the same Call as the Apostles were called with , and will not pretend such a Call. Again , He falsly Charges R. F. with Crucifying the Ministers of Christ : which is a Lye , and of the Devil , though none of us may spare to call Hirelings greedy dumb Dogs and devourers , and lazy shepherds , and in this we do not contradict the Scripture , nor work offence towards God , nor our neighbours : And he concludes , Who of us ( we or they ) shall have the worst of it in Conclusion , the day shall declare : unto that we are willing to come , by which we , and all the blind Priest● of England shall be manifest ; and we know Lyers , such as J. S. shall not have the better , who is to us made manifest already to be out of the way , and out of the power and life of God. His 19 th Head , concerning immediate Teaching . In this we do not contradict the Scripture , as J. S. falsly charges us withal , but do say ( that we are taught of God ) and needs no man to teach us , ●ut as the anointing of God , which abides in us , and the promise of God is fulfilled upon us Jer 31. we are all taught of God from the least of us to the greatest , with whom the Covenant of God is established , and this is the cause wherefore we set forth our selves to the World , who are yet in the unconverted estate , that they also may come to the knowledge of the wayes , and teachings of God in the Spirit , and may come into the Covenant of peace , where none need to say , know the Lord , but all these are taught of him , ( yea and immediatly too ) by his spirit , and this we do witness , and the Lord doth witness with us , though the unbelieving heart of J. S. and his fellows cannot believe it , but doth gainsay it , as being contrary to the Scripture , when as themselves doth contradict the Scripture in denying it , so proving themselves guilty of what they do accuse us of falsly ; but this is that their folly may appear to all men , as it doth to us , and J. S. saith , he is yet to learn the promise of the immediate teachings of God , to be given to all that are to teach others ; & this doth make it manifest , that himself is without the promise of God , and is not yet taught of God , and so without Gods Covenant , being not learned in the teaching of God by his Spirit , which is immediate . And thus to confound truth , he hath by his confession shamed himself , and shewed himself to all men to be unlearned in the doctrine of Salvation . Further , he saith , If God had intended to have given teaching immediatly without any medium , then would he not have sent Preachers abroad for them to hear : mark this mans blinde productions , and what impudence is in his heart , who holds forth , That God intended not the thing to be what be promised should be , he promised to teach his people himself ; and this man holdes forth , that he intended it not , and so hath no lesse than charged God with Hypocrisie ( let the Reader mark this ) but this is the ground wherefore the Ministers and Preachers were and are sent abroad , to bring all people to be taught of God by the Spirit , and to inform their minds to the gifts of God in them , that by the spirit received the knowledg of , they might know the things of God , which is not known but by the Spirit of God , which all the Children of God are led and guided by , and they that are not led with the Spirit of God , which Spirit is immediate , ( are not the heirs with Christ ) are none of his , let J.S. say what he will , or may ; this we believe , and this the Scripture gives testimony of for us , and with us . Yet further to manifest his folly , he saith , It is erroneous enough , and contradictious to the whole Scripture , when R. F. truly tells him , & saith , Thou that art not taught of God , shewes that thou speaks a vision of thy own heart , and not from the mouth of the Lord : let the Reader search where the errour and contradiction to the whole Scripture lyes in these words , or whether he hath not proved himself blind and ignorant , and in errour , and contradicton to the Spirit of God Further , he saith , Never did any but Gods slayers , and Spirit-wounders go about to s●parate the Word of God and his breath : Now let this be considered ; Christ did tell them ( the Pharises ) who had the words wh●ch God had spoken by the Prophets , that they had never heard ●he voyce of God ; here he divides or separates betwixt the words and the voyce ( or breath ) and was no God-slayer , nor Spirit-wounder , as thou hast vvickedly and blasphemously laid dovvn thy position , vvhere thou hast concluded Christ to be one against vvhom thy vvords are laid dovvn : let the Reader prove thy doctrine . His 20 th Head , concerning Questions . In this we do not contradict the Scripture , J. S. is taken with a lye in his mouth , who hath made it a subject to treat upon , ( for Questions in their places wee own ) but such as are of the Divell we deny ; as Christ did , who shewed himself as a fool unto all mens wisdom when the subtile Pharisees and others tempted him , who vvould not ansvver their crafty Questions , though them that questioned in simplicity , he did to resolve and satisfie them , and informe them in the knovvledg of the Father . Then some leaves he hath filled vvi●h producing some of our Queries out of some of our Books , Commenting thereupon , and vvould prove them ignorant and unprofitable , and the like ; but it h●d been more just , & of a better report for him to have ansvvered them , and shevved them to be ( as he saith of them ) to all people , rather than in a manner back bited them , and reproached them , and not shevving vvherein it lyes ; and if they be so needlesse , and vaine as he saith , then the sooner had such a vvise man ( as he thinks himse●f ) J. S. confuted them by sober and plaine ansvveres ; but vvhat if our folly in the sight of men , be vvisdom in the sight of God , a●d his vvisdom foolishnnsse vvith God ? no matter vvhat he say of us , vvho hath shevved himself already , and confessed truly that his heart is old , and lying , and sinfull ▪ so vve can expect no better jud●ment from his Pen , then what is in his heart ; but while we are approved in the sight of God , we matter not what men say of us , especially one that hath set himself to be our enemy , and the Lords enemy : and I leave the honest sober Queries to be read , which he hath falsely branded with Pride and ignorance , and such like , ( as this ) What Rule have you in Scripture for putting off the Hat ? ( this is an honest Question ) which he wickedly slanders with pride : And whether is your Gospel free without charge , as the Apostles was , yea or no ? These and such other Questions he rails ag●inst , to be ignorant , and quarrellous , and vain , and of the Devil : Now it had been more honest to have confuted them in answering discreetly , than to have thus branded them . And he saith , It is one thing to take Hire for Preaching , and another thing to preach for hire , whereby his scope is to excuse himself if it may be , and his Brethren , ( who are Hirelings , ) and would not be counted to preach for hire , though he dare not deny , ( lest all men should see his folly , ) but that they had hire for preaching : but then let him tell us , when , or where ever any of them preached , and had no hire ; and then we will believe they preach not for it ; but such as receive sums of money of one man , ●or a Country , which would not be given him , except he preached to them , this same man is a Hireling , and preaches because he hath hire , a●d hath hire because ( that 's the ground ) he preaches . Further , he saith , Christs righteousnesse which justifies a believing sinner , is not the essential righteousnesse of his God-head ; and here he hath spoken ignorantly , and held forth , as if there is two Righteousnesses of Christ , which I call for a proof from him for ; else let him confesse , to his shame , that he hath added to the Scripture ; for the righteousnesse of Christ is but one , by which all the Saints are justified . Further he saith , ignorantly enough , That which is done accord - to the bare letter of the written Command , or from a Gift of the Spirit , or in a Gospel way from a living principle of grace , ●cts of ●olinesse by the Holy Spirit , and Faith given stirred up , This is a righteousnesse of ours , saith he , and seems to separate it from the righteousnesse of Christ , as he holds forth : let men behold his ignorance . Further he saith , though it be wrought by the strength of Christ in us , yet as to Justification , Paul would not be fou●d in it ; ( this ) for a word , ( mark again Reader ) canst thou see any thing here but ignorance , as if Paul were justified by ano●●er Christ then what wro●ght in him to will and to do ? Furth●r he saith , Paul counted all things but loss and dung , even what he had done , or suffered , since conversion , that he might win Christ. Mark again , What was the converting of many hundred of souls by Paul ? and many other Works of God wrought by him , but dung and losse ? so J. S. holds forth ; this is ignorance indeed ; he hath shewed his ignorance by what he hath said , and not proved in any thing , that concerning Questions we contradict the Scriptures . His 21 th Head , concerning Civil Honour . In this we do not contradict the Scripture , by Arguments nor practice , but do honour all men in the Lord , and cannot respect mens persons , nor have them in any admiration for any advantage ; yea we honour men in reproving them in their unrighteousnesse , and J. S. pleads much for civil Honour : the Scripture speaks not of Civil Honour ; and the Question is . What this honour is that he calls civil ? and wherein it may be done , and not in transgression , nor in respect of persons ; Magistrates are to be honour●d by subjection to their just Commands , Requests , and Laws ; and by patient suff●ring under their corrupt Laws , and evil Commands , and not resisting evil : yet the person of no man is to be respected ; for he that doth , commits sin and is a transgressour of the Law of God , & Ministers of Christ are to be respected for their works sake ; and they desire no honour nor praise of men , but know , Reproach and infamy is their respect from the men of this Generation : And as for Hirelings and Deceivers , they are respected of the World , but condemned of God , and of his Saints , and testified against ; and Parents are to be respected in the Lord by their Children , and Masters by their Servan●s : but where God commands one thing , and parents or masters another , as it often comes to passe , in Christs time , as it doth now , whether to give respect to God or man , this I leave to be judged by sober men that make conscience of what they say : And thus in short I give a testimony how we honour , and would have all honoured in the Lord , and leave J. S. long Discourse to him and his Company , and do bear witnesse against the vain Superstition , and foolish Customes of this Generation . His 22 d Head , concerning Swearing . In this we do not contradict the Scripture , but saith & practise●● according to Christs words , Swear not at all , which is spoken absolute and without condition , and mitigation ( and he saith ) we take these words of Christ against his meaning , and this is false and wicked too in ● . S. who would be seen to hold forth , that when Christ said , Swear not at all , he meant not as he spake , ( for both Christ and the Apostle James were righteous in what they delivered concerning Swearing , who forbids all manner of Swearing , no cause excepted , and we take Christs words according to his mind , and doth deny all Oaths , and abides in Christ , and the Apostles Doctrine , and ou● yea is so , and our nay is so , and whatsoever is more commeth of evil , and J. S. would plead for swearing before a Magistrate ; but that Magistrate which fears God , and loves his way , will believe a man sooner that cannot swear for conscience sake , then he that makes no conscience of Swearing , and such a one is liker to testifie lyes with Oaths , then he that for conscience sake denyes Oaths ; and in his conclusion he saith scholastically ( though ignorantly ) they that wil not expound Scripture by Scripture , and compare the precepts and ex●mples for swearing without prohibition against it , fall into Scripture contradiction ; but R.F. nor others wil ; therefore , &c. This is unfound , and laid down , but not proved at all , neither ma●or nor minor , and hereby he hath concluded wickedly , the Apostle Iames , and Christ himself to be fallen into Sc●ip●ure contradictions , who did expr●sly forbid all swearing and did not compare the precepts and examples for Swearing , with the prohibition against it , and thus J. S. is taken uttering folly with his tongue , & hath drawn a conclusion upon Christ , and the Apostle Iames to be contradictors of Scripture ; let shame cover his impudent forehead . And they that charge Christ , and the Apostle James with contradicting Scripture , are enemies to God , and of the Devil , and for eternall vengeance : but Iohn Stelham hath done so , and therefore he is an enemy to God , and of the Devil , and for eternal vengeance . But further at large , as concerning Swearing , our testimony thereof is la●d down at large in a Book called , The glory of the Lord arising . And whereas further , I. S. as a man not weary of iniquity , goes on after his false charging of us with contradicting to scripture , ●harges us again , that we contradict our selves in many things ; which accusation we bear with as much patience as we do his former , seeing they are all out of one heart , and to the same end ; for it is a small thing for us to be judged by man , and so that wherein he charges us with self-contradictions , I passe lightly over , having cleared the truth , That we do not contradict the Scriptures ; but if this man J. S. had been in Generations past , what would he have said of Isaiah , who was sent to tell Hezekiah from the Lord , That he should die , and not live ? 2 King. 20.1 . At the same instant of time the word of the Lord came again to Isaiah , that Hezekiah should be healed , and that he should go up to the house of the Lord : These were both the words of the Lord to Hezekiah , and yet no contradiction in Isaiah , though such a Spirit as J. S. would so have judged : And what would he have judged betwixt David and Ieremiah ? Psal. 119. and the 103. and Jer. 23.29 . David saith , The Words of the Lord are sweet unto his taste , yea sweeter than the honey to his mouth : And Jer. saith , Thè Word of the Lord is as a fire , and like a h●mmer , which breaks the Rock to pieces : Now there is no contradiction in these two , not to that Spirit by which they are guided , though so it might seem to such as J.S. whose mindes are dark : And what would he have judged of Christs words , Matth. 12.30 . and Mark 9.40 . where Christ said , He that is not with me , is against me ; and he that is not against us is with us ? ●nd yet in these words there is not contradiction to him that hath an ear to hear : But if J.S. had been in those dayes , out of his evil heart would he have charged the holy men of God to be contradictions to themselves ; it is very like that he would ; and these things I leave with the Reader to be considered of ; for we who have the same Spirit , do clear Christ , and the holy men of God from contradictions , and knows J.S. and such as he , to be seekers of occasions against the Just , and would make off●nces where there is none ; for as I have said , we do not allow J.S. to be the Interpreter of our words ; for then no question but he would have his own end , and meaning ; and J. S. saith , We deny the letter of the Scripture to be Scripture ; this is charged upon him to be a lye , as it is well known through this Nation ; both in Doctrine and conversation , we own the Scriptures ; and to deny Matthew , Mark , and Johns Declarations of the Gospel , is no denyal of the Scripture ; for the Gospel was preached to Abraham , which Gospel was , and is the power of God , before these four men did declare it , though we deny their Writings to be the very Gospel , which is the power of God ; yet we do not deny but they truly declared of the Gospel : and this is to own the Scripture as it speaks of it self to be . Let J. S. judg what he will of us : and whereas he speaks of Gospel-letters , and Scripture Gospel , the Scripture gives no such names to it , but saith , the Gospel is the power of God , and that is the Gospel which we preach , even the power of God unto all people , let J. S. judge by consequence what he will. And further he would plead for the Title of Master , from the Example of Abrahams Servant ; but this is nothing to prove the lawfulnesse of a Minister of Christ , that they may be called Master : for Christ saith to his Ministers , Be ye not called Masters ; and the Spirit of Christ being our rule , that leads us in the fulfilling of Christs words , let J. S. shuffle as he will : Also he lyes of J.N. to say , he denyes and grants the same thing to be in the letter : for though he say , He that believes hath the witnesse in himself , which is truth ; yet he doth not say , The Letter is the Belivers witnesse , which he seems falsly to be charged withall ; and he saith , the Spirit of God must give the spiritual understanding of the Scriptures ; But this he doth in another way , than that whereby he inspired the Pen-men of the Scriptures . Now this is false Doctrine : For Christ the way , the same to us , as to them , and not another way of understanding Scriptures , nor by another Spirit than that which gave them forth ; and he saith , Christ directed to himself , John 5.39 . as revealed in the Scriptures , and more than that , as conveyed by the Scriptures to a Soul : Now let the Reader take notice and search that Scripture , Whether he hath not added to it , yea or nay ? or where any ever had any Christ conveyed to them by Scriptures : It doth say , the Scriptures testifie of him ; but it doth not say , that he is revealed in the Scriptures , nor conveyed by them to a Soul ; and this is his additional gloss to corrupt the Text , to undervalue the eternal Spirit of the Father , by which Christ is only revealed , and received , and not by the Scriptures . And for E. B. to say , That he came not to them with enticing words , neither what he had gathered from the Scripture without him , but to declare the Word of the Lord , and not to speak his own conceivings and imaginations , this is true , and no contradiction in it ; though J. S. say , these cannot both be true , to say , That he neither came with what he had gathered from Scripture , nor his own imaginations : For the Apost●es of Christ did not preach what they had gathered from Scripture , neither their own imaginations , but preached the Wor● and Gospel of God which they had received from God , and not gathered from Scripture , nor in their own imaginations : and because he saith , both these negatives cannot be true , then it is concluded , that himself preaches either what he hath gathered from Scripture , or his own imaginations , and let him chuse to say whether he will : And in the next , he will be proved a false Prophet ; and that E. B. compiled a Book out of Scripture Collections , is false ; for having the same Spirit which gave forth the Scripture , which brings the Scripture to remembrance , is not compiling a Book out of Scriptures : and J. S. is found a false Accuser ; and E.B. neither a self-Contradictor , nor self-Curser : and these are true words to this Generation , and owned with the Spirit of God , though J. S. in his scornfull spirit abuse them : he that hath the Word of the Lord from the mouth of the Lord to declare , he is reviled and mocked . But he that speaks the imagination of his own heart from the Saints conditions , he is heard and owned ; and this is neither Scripture contradiction , nor self contradiction , let J. S. judg out of his own heart what he will : neither is this self-contradiction , to ask , Which of the Saints had the witnesse of their souls union to seek in the Letter , and yet to affirm , the Spirit opens , and brings that which is spoken in Scripture to remembrance ? Let J. S. first answer the Query in plainnesse , which is an honest query , and not to imply from it his own conceptions ; to make appear self-Contradict●ons , let the sober Reader judg , where the contradiction lies : and he saith , the Spirit is in the le●ter , and goes about to prove it if he could : if the Spirit be in the letter , then all must have the spirit that hath the letter , and the Spirit is whereever the Bible is , which I do deny ; for many have the Letter , and prof●sse it , which knows not the spirit , and many have the Bible in their pocket , which have not the spirit there : and this will be confessed by J. S. and all his fellows ; and so he must revoke , who saith , the Spirit is in the letter , and the spirit gives life , but the letter kills : In his proof he saith , The written Word , viz. the Letter is of greater authority then the writer : Mark here , Christ was one of them which gave forth Scripture , and he was a greater authority than what was written : and I say , as it is plain to all honest men who can believe truth , that the holy men of God , who had the spirit , were of greater authority than the Scriptures since have been which they left behinde them . But J. S. hath set Christ , and all them that gave forth scripture to be lesse in authority than the scriptures : Let wise men judg of this matter ; he saith , They were imperfectly holy that wrote forth the Scriptures , and this is an absolute lye ; for the scr●ptures give ●his testimony of many of them that wrote it , that they were perfect men ; and he hath also slaundered Christ to be imperfectly holy : and in his next let him prove what this imperfect holinesse is , and till then we deny that there is any Holinesse imperfect . Further he saith , The promises of the scripture are his ●hariot to convey him ( spirit ) whither he pleases to go ; But where is his proof for such a Doctrine ? but all that he saith , doth not prove that the spirit is in the letter , though he say to make up the sum of his matter , Daily experiences do demonstrate that the spirit is in the letter : but where is the man ? let him answer , that thus hath experienced , that alwayes when he hath seen the letter , and handled the letter , hath seen and handled the spirit ; the testimony of an honest man I will believe , but not J. S. assertion out of his own heart . In his 2 d Head of self-contradiction . Concerning hearing the Word , this is not contradiction , to say , they who are of God hear his Word , and yet to deny the hearing of such as J. S. who is not a Minister of the Word , but a Professor of the Letter ; for proud men , and covetous men , and false Accusers , such as J. S. is , we are exhorted to turn away from , by Paul : and this is not a denying our selves to be of God , as J. S. would charge us withall , because we deny to hear Hirelings ; for we hear Gods Word , and his Voice , and therefore do we deny to hear D●ceivers ; and this is no self-contradiction , nor saying , nor unsaying , let J.S. judge what he will , the Saints shall be my witn●sse : and though we say , that the Saints Teacher cannot be removed into a corner , as saith the scripture , and that the saints will finde thei● teachers as they lie in their beds : both these are true , and not self-contradiction : let a sober Reader judg , whether he can find contradiction in those words : but fain would J. S have his lies believed for truth , that he might have praise of men , for his works have gained no praise of God ; and he saith , R F. hath not proved lyes yet against him : if it were so , let the Reader search whether there be none proved against him now : but let him not say like a Pharisee , I am no lyar , but rather let him repent of his lyes and wickedness . His 3 d. Head concerning the Light within . Wherein much ado he makes as to prove the light of Christ spoken of Ioh. 1.9 . to be a natural light , and he saith , the light given to all men , even that light spoken of Ioh. 1.9 . is a dim light , and is cold , and insufficient to Salvation , and unable to make true discovery of the true Saviour , & such like contemptible undervaluing words of the pure light of Christ , by whom the world was made , who lighteth every man in the World : & by this it is known more evidently what Spirit J. S. is of : but there is none of us who have received the knowledge of God by the very light of Christ which shines in our hearts can believe him : and this is no contradiction to say , that every man is lightned by Christ with the true light , and yet to say , some men are living in a natural condition : both these are true , for some hates the light of Christ , and their deeds are evil : and such are in a natural condition ; but this doth not prove that Christ hath not given them light , though they be in a natural condition ; I leavit to spiritual men to judge , though they say , it seems strange , that some should live a natural condition , and yet have the light of Christ given them , saith he , as if every man brought a Saviour with him into the world . This last is his false conception ; but he is mans saviour by whose power every man is brought in to the World , and if J. S. did but understand as we do , that some love the light , and some hates it : such as hate it denyes Christ : he that loves it receives Christ : who knows this stranges not ; I.S. wondring shews his Ignorance who would secretly charge us to be bewitched with a Notion of accounting nature grace , which we do not , and it is his own condition : he that conceives Lyes , believes them and tells them , is the rather bewitched . And further , he saith the light in every man is a poor , base , beggarly scrap to the Gospel treasure : these words are uttered in his hastiness , and without either fear or knowledge ; for he that lighteth every man with the true light of life , ( or of Condemnation ) is not base beggarly scrap● , as I. S. saith it is , for it brings to the ●nowledge of the Gospel treasure and pearle , and not other light , and thus whilst he thinks to prove us self-contradictors , he proves himself a vilifier , and a blasphemer of Christ Jesus the Saviour of the World who lighteth every man that commeth into the World. Again , he would make this contradiction , bec●use we say every man in hi● first state is as a Beast , and yet saying every man is lightned ; but this is not contradiction no more than the former is ; & then he speaks of naturall conscience , and s●cretly charges us as if we should say it is potent , and victorious at last ; but this is a secret slander of his ; for we say Christ only is victorious , and through him are we made Conquerers , and not by natural conscience : and he speaks of Gospel conviction to be above the conviction of natural conscience ; but I would know of him where the Gospel conviction works , if not in mens consciences ? and so in his next let him div●de if he can , and shew the d●fference of such convictions . Further , he would say that this is contradiction to say th●t every man in his first birth may see himself to be natural ; and yet to say that the light which discovers natural corruptions is not natural , but spiritual ; both these are true ; for the light shines in darkness which shews the darkness , and is not darkness but light ; and he that c●n understand that Scripture Iohn 1.5 . shall see the truth of both these to be no self-contardiction . Further , he saith the Scriptures are a rule above the Saints light , and unto it , and not so , their light above the Scripture ; this is confusion , and he knows not whereof he affi●ms ; for the Spirit of God is the the Saints rule , and that is greater than the Scriptures , and the rule of the Spirit of God is above the Scripture : but such as J. S. who talks of Scripturres to be a rule , & yet acts these things which the Scriptures declare against , are but found in deeper hypocrisie ; for he that is ruled by the Spirit of God walks up in the fulfilling of Scriptures . And further J. S. confess●d , and saith this he knows , that he is more brutish then any man , and hath not the knowledge of the holy ; and this is truly ●onfessed ; his own works manifest his own condition to be true ; and he confesses he never obeyed natural light as he ought , and as he might , and this is truly confessed ; for if he had obey●d that light which he calls natural , he would not thus have stumbled at him who hath lightned every man. And further he charges a deceit when men will put off that for redemption light which is but old creation light , let him charge them that are guilty : but yet we say that the same is Redeemed by whom the world was created ; and this is without any deceit ; and he that lighteneth every man with the light , that is but one , he is the Saviour of all that receive him in the light , and he is the condemner of all that hate his light ; this is no self-contradiction , but the very truth as it is in Jesus . Further ● . S. would make it appear if he could , that we contradict our selves concerning sin and Christ ; but his whole Section I leave to be read in his Book , and let the wise Reader judge whether his proof be any such thing : only his lye will prove what he saith ; he saith , We hold Christ to be in all ; this is his Lye : for we say Christ is not in the Reprobate , neither did we ever affirm that Christ is not in the Reprobate , and so is not in all : neither do we concerning Justification contradict our selves in the Spirit of God , though so it may appeare to J. S. blind mind , and so would make it appear to others by blind arguments by his own meaning . Again J. S. would charge self-contradiction upon us , because we bear witness to the New-Covenant , and doth say , the children of God are taught of God , and needs no man to teach them , but as the annointing within them : and yet doth write and print : here he saith we condemn in others what we allow in our selves . Now to all honest people this is no contradiction , neither a condemning in others what we allow in our selves : for therefore we write , and print and speak , that all may come to the knowledge of this thing , & may be converted to God , and know his teaching wi●hin them ; but what would J. S. have said of John who told them they needed no man to teach them , but as that within them ? and yet did write Epistles to them : ●ery like he would have called this contradiction . And the same is our cause , who doth and must do ( though J. S. and his companions be grieved therewith , because their folly is laid open thereby ) print , and write , and speak , that people through the Ministry be brought to know the teaching of God in themselves , and yet herein in the light of the Spirit of God , do we not contradict our selves , let J.S. say what he will : neither do we allow in our selves , what we condemn in another , this is one of J.S. his lyes ; we allow the Ministry of Christ , yet doth not allow the Ministry of Deceivers , and yet is not in contradiction , and this in short may give the Reader to understand the deceit , and deceivableness , to lye in J. S. who is found seeking offences against us , without any cause given him : and he layes snares for another , which doth entrap his own feet . And whereas he hath transcribed E B his Confession , in the warning to Underbarrow , which confession is still owned , and no self-contradiction proved by it : For though God spake by G.F. to him , yet this doth not contradict the teaching of the spirit of God , as that E. B. was not taught by the spirit of God : For , as I have said , G. F. did minister as many do at this day , that people should come to the teaching of God in themselves ; and herein we do not contradict the scriptures , let J. S make as many blind Arguments as he can : and that instance about J. L. being of the same nature with the former : The Answer supplies both his Proofs , neit●er of which doth prove us in contradiction , but is a witnesse to the Ministry of Christ , and to the Conversion received through it , wherein we are taught of God , and need no man to teach us , but as the anointing , the spirit of God within us , which is immediate , and yet we preach the Gospel to others , that they may come to witnesse the same with us , even the teaching of the spirit of God , and for this end is the Ministry of God sent by us to bring others to the knowledge of God through it , and this is no self-contradiction , let J.S. say what he will. Further , J.S. doth instance E.B. his calling mans light natural and carnal in the Warning , &c. and would cal his contradiction to some who deny the light of Christ to be natural and carnal , as the Priests of England terme it ; but this is no contradiction ; for though we do deny that the light of Christ Jesus is natural and carnal , and doth not allow any so to call it ; yet the light of man by which carnal men do judg of carnal transgressions , is natural : E.B. doth never say that the light of Christ is natural and carnal , but the light of M●n is so he saith , and in this Instance there is no contradiction ; neither in any parts of the words following , which are transcribed : and much might be said as to the occasion of those words being uttered , when E. B. was in prison falsly , as many have been since , who was one of the first that by imprisonment was a sufferer for the name of Jesus in the North part of England , before J. S. was troubled with any of us : but it is sufficient what is said to the mans light , by which carnal men judg of any thing , is one thing , and the light of Christ Jesus which is spiritual mens guide , is another thing : E. B. spake of mans light , and J.S. foolishly opposes him , as if he spake of the light of Christ Jesus , and so opposes his own conception . And further J. S. asserts , That Scripture light is the standing rule for faith and manners ; so are not immediate revelations , and teachings . Here he hath set up the Scriptures above the Spirit of God , and above the Revelation of Jesus Christ : the Saints were led by what the Spi●it revealed , and taught : Christ said , he should teach into all truth , and they that were the Sons of God were loved by the spirit of God , and that was their rule to be led by in their Faith and manners : But yet see a Hypocrite , ( J.S. is he ) that pleads for scripture to be the rule , and yet is acting in many things contrary to the scriptures , as at large may be instanced ; neither is in all the scripture the scripture called light , but scripture saith , Christ is the light . Further he saith , There is sufficient light in the scripture to guide men to salvation : Mark his Doctrine , whether he hath not preached another thing than Christ to be the way , and whether he hath not made Christ , and the blood of Christ of none effect , without which no salvation : But he saith , there is sufficient in the Scripture to lead men to salvation , and neither Christ nor his blood is in Scripture , let it be moved Further he saith , The scripture was given by the spirit for a rule ; this we desire a proof of by plain scripture , and till then we deny it . And further he saith , The spirit gives out himself by scripture : and yet he saith , he never said , the scripture did give the spirit , and this is an absolute contradiction , as may be noted ; so J.S. is taken in the snare , contradicting himself in one quarter of a sheet of Paper , and hath not at all proved us to be self-contradictors concerning any of these things mentioned by him . Further , he saith in his 8 th Head , That our possessing perfection , and quaking after Moses Example , cross shins on the other ; but wherein he doth not shew , neither can the honest-minded read any contradiction in it , but only it seems J. S. hath set himself to cavel . Further , he saith , We contradict our selves concerning Quaking and trembling , from this confession , That the same power that made Moses to quake and tremble , the same power we witnesse ; but wherein doth this contradiction appear in these words ? let honest men try the cause , and J. S. be silent . And whereas he instances , J. P. standing in an evil cause , and of I. P. he may be silent , whose bloud he or his Generation fought after : and now might they well be quiet of him , their wills being stifled by drinking his blood as it were : but that wicked men must add to their own wickedness till it be fulfilled , that they may receive their reward ; and I. P. was bold , as is the children of God ; and though J. S. would clear himself and his company from what was done to I. P. yet by the effect it appeared that there was enough envy in them towards him and the truth ; and though his body be in the ground , yet the Spirit of the Lord which guided him stands alive , a sufficient witness against them , and all their cruell and wicked dealing ; and let J. S. judgement be what it will , neither concerning growth of Grace , nor forms of Religion , nor fruits of the Spirit do we at all contradict the Spirit of God : neither doth he prove us in these things whereof he accuseth us in strife and debate , ( except against such as J.S. and the Devils Kingdom , ) neither in emulation , hatred , scoffs , or any of these things which the Lord hath redeemed us from , though we be falsly accused in these things , as in many other by him ; and whereas he would prove their preaching in their method , & Points , and Reasons , and Uses from the example of the Saints in former ages , he falls far short in effecting his extent , for he cannot prove that they studied for what they spake , nor that in such a way they delivered what they said an hour by a glass , &c. as the Priests of this age do ; also if it were they preached in the like manner as the Apostles did , yet not by the same spirit , but by the spirit of error , and for a wrong end ; that is the thing which makes their manner abominable , when as they are not guided with the same Spirit of the Apostles , and their preaching in their method of points , and particulars is rather an art of preaching by humane policy , and not the gift of preaching by the Spirit of God ; neither do we concerning humility and love contradict our selves , but are in humility & love towards all men ; even such as wrongs us we seek no revenge against , and herein doth our humility and love appear , yet cannot we respect any mans person with hat or knee , and that is it which J. S. I suppose is offended with . In his 13 th Head concerning Ordinances . He charges us with self-contradiction , because we say we own praying , &c. and yet hath given over Family prayer , morning and evening , and at meals , but this is no contradiction : for we own praying in the Spirit of God , bur do deny it without the Spirit , and this is no contradiction ; he may as well say it was contradiction in Christ to cry against the prayers of the Pharisees , and yet to teach his Disciples to pray , and to pray himself ; this is the same cause of ours which he foolishly charges with contradiction , and as I have said the prayers of the Wicked we deny , and yet doth own prayer in the Spirit , and who are moved by the Spirit morning or evening , or at meals , or otherwise , and this is truth , let J.S. gather what he can from it . Further , he saith , If we teach one another , why do we condemn them for teaching ? But to this I have answered ; Preaching or Teaching by the Spirit we own , and without the Spirit we deny ; and because we say we own all that which is Gods , as Baptisme , the Lords Supper , and Sabbath , &c. yet doth disown in practice their Water Baptisme , and their form of breaking of Bread and Wine , and their forms of Church fellowship , and their form of keeping a Sabbath ; this he charges to be contradiction , but it is not so in the sight of the Lord , though I.S. falsely so judge it ; for their Baptism and breaking of Bread and Wine , and their Church-fellowship , and keeping of a day , I say their exercise in these things we do deny to be of God , as in measure is proved , and may be further if need require ; and I say we own that which is Gods , and which is led unto by his Spirit , and practised in his fear , and counsel , & yet we do deny all their Imaginations of any thing which God commanded , doth own the command of God , and yet doth not contradict our selves , though I. S. falsely so judge of us . Further , he charges us with self-contradiction concerning speech , and silence , because we check some for speaking , and yet speaks or writes our selves ; but this is the same with the former , and the same answer will serve , that speaking that which is not in the Spirit we check , which is not the voice of Christ but of the stranger , and yet doth own that which is spoken by the Spirit of God , and herein doth not contradict our selves . Further , he saith , We contradict our selves concerning Conscience and Laws , because we say there must be no Law concerning Religion , viz , to bind any man to worship in this or the other way , and to bind him from this or that way of Worship , and yet in exhorting the Rulers , that their Laws be according to that in the Conscience ; but in these words there is no contradiction ; for the Laws being according to the light in every mans Conscience , that Law will not binde or limit the conscience from this or that way of worship in Religion ; for that Law is unjust , which binds or limits the pure conscience of any man : but that Law which is contrary to the light in every mans conscience , is oppression , and we bear witnesse against it : and though we do say no Law must be laid upon Religion , that is to say , to binde any mans Conscience to or from such a form of Religion : and though we further say , that all just Law is , and should be according to every mans Conscience ; yet in this there is no contradiction . And whereas J.S. speaks of such Laws , who persecuted , prisoned , and crucified for the testimony of a good Conscience , God hath hewen down in all ages , saith he : Let the Rulers of England take notice of this from the mouth of one of their Teachers . And further I adde , so will God hew down in this Age all those Lawes by which many are persecuted and prisoned , as he hath done in other Ages : therefore let it be considered by them . And he saith , The Magistrate is not to level his Law with every mans conscience and light : and this he speaks in opposition to us , but he needs not ; for we say the same , that some mens Consciences are defiled , and we do not desire the Laws to be made according to mens several Opinions , and defiled Consciences , but according to the light of Christ Jesus in every mans Conscience , which is but one in all , and is according to the Law of God , and every just Law will be according to it ; and though J.S. by his own meaning would make it appear Contradiction in our saying no Law must be concerning Religion , and yet saying , all Laws should be according to the light of Christ in the Conscience : Now by these words we do not mean that we would have a Law according to Religion , but no Law to limit to or from this or that manner of Religion : And this doth very well agree with our saying , Let all your Laws be according to the Light of Christ : so by his misinterpretation of the first , he makes it appear to be contradiction to the second ; but it is not in the light of the Spirit of God. And further , R. F. saying , the Law of God answers his Justice , and the Light of Christ in the conscience answers the Law of God , which is perfect according to that in the Conscience : these words J. S. charges with two Errors : but let the Reader try where the Error lies , and not believe J. S false deduction from R.F. plain words , which are simply uttered , though subtily wrested . And J. S. speaks as if some would have Magistrates to make Laws to binde themselves from striking at Offenders , Blasphemers , Gospel , and Church disturbers , &c. In answer to this , We are not they that would have any Magistrates to bind themselves from striking at offenders , who are truly able to judge of Offences : we own that such should be punished according to the offence ; but the Magistrates Law reache● but to the outward man to keep that in peace and good order , and not to the inward man to binde or limit that . And as for Blasphemy , and Gospel and Church disturbing , we find many Magistrates not able to judge thereof ; but many on the other side calling ●●th blasphemy , and reproving of sin in Teachers and people , Gospel and Church disturbing , and so by false judgment making such offenders which are not , and so abusing their power , and condemning the innocent rather than the guilty : and these are such as J. S. speaks of , where the strong man armed keeps the house , and these are rather a terror to well-doers then to evil ; and such Magistrates , and such Laws by which the just are oppressed , and the hands of the wicked strengthened will the Lord confound in a day , to the glory of his name , and to the refreshing of all his People who are now every way oppressed by evil men , both by Teachers and People . And as for the rest of his Book , it s but of the same nature with the former , and not worth answering to ; onely his lyes I do deny ; and his first following is , that all our doctrines are raised upon the ruines of the Scriptures excellency and authority : this is false , neither doth his proof at all make it good . His second lye is , that our corrupt Tenents are built upon false and novel Interpretations , and this is two lyes together ; our Tenents are not corrupt , neither do we build any thing which we hold upon false Interpretation● . His third lye is , that it is pride that hath bred and doth feed our Opinions and Practices : and this is also false ; and to prove it hath wrested some of E. B. words . His fourth lye is , that unbelief begets and procreates all our errors , and our love of error with our derisions of the truth ; here is many lyes folded up in one , which are all denied with the life of God , and the author of them proved to be of the Devil , and we proved to be of God , who are spoken all manner of evil against falsly for the name of Jesus . His fifth lye is , that we do subtilly couch many errours under specious words of truth : this lye also I bear witness against , as also against his sixth , wherein he charges us with meer ignorance , and wilful blindness about the covenant of Grace , &c. His seventh lye is , That much of mystical Babylon and confusion is in our Writings and ways : this is also a lye and of the Devil ; and also against his eighth I bear testimony ; our doctrine and practice ends not in Apostasie , neither are they blasphemy against Christ , as J.S. impudently asserteth ; so that from the first of his book to his last , his whole Work is born witness against , not to be of God but of the Devil ; and in vain hath he striven , and his Work shall not accomplish any part of his desire : for the Quakers against whom he hath written , cannot be offended in Christ , though J.S. have endeavoured for to make their way and doctrines in the sight of men abominable ; but his Work shall not prevent the purpose of the Lord , nor the gathering in of the upright hearted from the mouths of devouring Shepherds , such as J. S. and the Priests of England ; who is it that doth not begin to see their deceits and abominations ? yea thousands do , and many more shall do ; so that all their striving to uphold their kingdom is but in vain ; for God hath blasted all their glory , and he will teach his people himself , and govern them by his own Law and order , and the Kingdoms of this World shall be changed , and shall become the Kingdoms of the Lord , and of his Christ ; and Antichrist and all his Ministers shall be confounded , and the Beast and the false Prophet shall bo●h be taken alive , and cast into the lake . Ah , John Stelham , against whom hast thou set thy self , and exalted thy horn ? against whom hast thou bent thy strength and shot forth thy envie in crafty words of guile ? who is it that thou hast defied , and girded on thy armour against , and counted them as nothing before thy uncircumcised strength ? even against the Lords people hast thou thus done ; though thou wilt not now know it , yet one day thou shalt know it , when iniquity is come to an end , and transgression finished , and thou shalt stand in thy lot at that day , and receive according to thy work a just and righteous reward from the hand of the Lord in the day of judgement , when every secret work of iniquity shall appear to condemnation ; and in the mean time the Lord will bring forth good unto his people , even from thy evil , and all things ( even thy evil purposes ) shall work together for good unto such whom God hath called : and thy works and purposes which are to trouble them , and to break them , and to make them appear vile in the sight of men , even thy work doth the Lord turn to establish them , and to unite them : and in the sight of men thy working against us proves us to be of God , and thy self to be of the Devil , who was a persecutor from the beginning ; and thou shalt be scattered in thy imaginations , and thy whole work hath God confounded , and it shall not accomplish any whit of that end propounded in thy sinful heart , which hath brought forth mischief , for it s blasted in the anger of God , and men shall neither call it , nor the father of it any more blessed . And friend , hadst thou known how little it doth accomplish of thy evil intent , thou wouldst have spared thy labour , and imployed thy service to another end , and then had not thy wickedness so greatly appeared in the sight of God , nor thy shame and nakedness in the sight of men as it now doth by this thy sinful deed , brought forth of a cursed womb , and conceived in unrighteousness . Alas , alas man , how art thou fallen into the pit which thou hast digged for another ! and how doth the shame overtake thee , which thou hast thought should have fallen upon us ! Let thy wickedness correct thee , and know thou , that the Lord will not forsake his people , who cannot be offended in Christ , though thou cast stumbling blocks of iniquity in the way , and would cause them to sin ; but even so much the more as thou speakest evil against the way of the Lord , are they the more upright therein , and the more loving and delighting in the path of righteousness , and thou hast but the more fully discovered in many things from thy own pen , the wickedness and wrath that hath secretly lodged in thy heart : and it appears that thy wisdom is devilish , and from below , deceiving and being deceived , and thy path is in craft and subtilty , and not in innocencie and plain simplicity : and in this manner , and by this means chiefly is thy work managed unto an evil end , but the Lord hath rebuked it , and wil do yet more , til it appear to all men , as it doth to us to be what I have said of it , and it shall be a shame to thee , and shall not receive praise neither of God nor man , but condemnation in the sight of both ; and hadst thou known that we are established even on the top of Gods holy mountain , and cannot be moved nor shaken by such weak pitiful blasts of confusion & ignorance , coming out of thy mouth , where poyson lodges under thy tongue ; sure hadst thou known it , thou wouldst have travelled in another path ; but that thy folly might appear unto all men , is thy work sent abroad , that they may see what lodges in thy mind , even more envy them in the heart of Balaam , and more desire of evil to the Lords people than ever was in him ; and thou fulfils the measure of thy fore-fathers wickedness , till the sum be accounted , and destructio● follow ; thou hast too much troubled thy self in labouring , and thy reward will not contervail ●hy pains ; hadst thou but only spoken against us , we should have born it , and thou might have been the more excused ; but in that thou hast spoken against the light of Christ , & called it a perverse Principle , & many other blasphemous words of bitterness against the very truths of Jesus . This is the cause wherefore we have answered thee , and thou art utterly inexcusable ; for what thou hast done , it is not altogether through ignorance , though much ignorance be in it , but out of perfect rebellion , and purpose of mischief ; and for Maste●y we do not strive with thee , but rather wisheth thy repentance , than thy destruction ; and who doth not believe but your kingdom ( I mean the Priests of England ) is going down apace , and your glory fading as a flower , and the Lord will make you a shame to your selves , who have for many ages preyed devouringly upon the upright , and through perfect covetousness have made merchandize of Souls ; and now many hath an eye opened to see your shame , and it appears with horrible detestation ; even the saying is fulfilled , As troups of robbers wait for a man , so the company of Priests murders in the way by consent , as the Prophet said : and as Christ said , Wo unto you , you will not enter your selves , nor suffer others to enter that would . Wherefore thou J. S. even thou repent of this thy Wickedness , for the wrath of the Lord is gone forth against thee , and evil hast thou done against God , and against his people , and against thy own soul , and this thou shalt know one day to thy exceeding sorrow , unto vvhich time we leave thee , and could have born all thy scandalous terms vvithout replying again , but only for the sake of the simple , that thy neighbours may see thy folly , and all men to vvhom thine and this doth come ; and vve have not been large , but in short have in singleness of heart born our testimony once more to the truth of the glorious Gospel vvhich vve have received of God , and not of man , and against thee and thy sinful heart , and whatsoever proceeds out of it ; for thou being evil , how canst thou speak good things ? The Tree must be good before the fruit can be so ; but out of thy evil heart hast thou brought forth evil , and must receive the reward of evil whether thou wilt or no. And vvhat if vve should go about to shew vvherein the Priests of England do contradict the Scripture ? Might not we have a large Catalogue , even all in your Worship , and in the most of your practises acting contrary to the Scripture , and contradicting that spirit that gave it forth , in doctrine and in conversation ? in such an enterprise as this , might we make your folly sound abroad . And as to the contradicting of your selves , and being of many judgements and opinions , and difference in many particulars about the things of God among your selves , herein you abound almost above measure , and thus if need require , could I by the strength of Jesus sufficiently make you appear abominable in the eyes of all just men ; and so think not in thy self that thou art free from Scripture and self-contradiction , but truly guilty your selves in what thou hast wickedly accused us of falsly , which doth but prove ehee to be of thy Father , who is an accuser of the Brethren , according to Christs words , we are spoken all manner of evil of falsly for the Name of Jesus Christ , whom we serve , and therefore are hated of the World , because we are not of it ; but without much more words , I leave this J. S. our adversary to the judgement of the great Day , wherein we and he shal receive according to our deeds ; and til then is as willing to have dispraise as praise of men , who is not a Jew outward , but a Jew inward ; Who hath no praise of men , but of God , who is of the Kingdom of Christ , which is not of this World. The cause of stumbling removed from all that will receive the truth , and from before the eyes of the wise men of London . In a Treatise shewing the difference between the Spirit of a man which the Candle of the Lord , and the Light which hath enlightened every man that cometh into the world . Also shewing , that though there be diversity of Administrations , yet there is not diversity of Lights and Spirits by which they are ministred : And shewing by clear testimony what the more sure Word of Prophesie is , which the Apostle Peter exhorts the people to take heed unto , until the day did dawn , and the day-star arise in their hearts . Herein also is a false Hosanna , and a false testimony reproved , and a false witness is rejected , and an untimely birth cast out , though for the time of travel it might have been a Monster , being above two years , but in the end is brought forth for destruction ; tht Name of him which hath so long travelled to bring forth wind and confusion , is one known in the City of London by the Name of John Jackson , being by the truth of this following made manifest , that so by every motion of the Spirit of Truth , and every testimony given from it , Understanding and Knowledge of the Truth may be encreased in those that follow on to know the Lord. THe Light is broken forth as the morning , and the health of the Nations is in it , and is springing forth speedily , and the righteousness of the righteous Seed is gone forth before them , and the glory of the Lord is revealed to his Seed , which now calleth , and the Lord doth answer , Here am I ; and the Lord hath made , and is making his Seed as a watered Garden , and like a spring of water whose waters fail not , and is raising up the foundations of many generations , that people may come to build again upon thus Foundation which they have been driven from , especially by their Pastors ; for saith the Lord , Many Pastors have destroyed my Vinyard , they have trodden my portion under foot , and made my pleasant Portion a desolate Wilderness , and have made God's Heritage as a speckled Bird ; the Birds round about are against her , and all the Beasts of the field come to devour , Jer. 12.9 , 10. And now is the Lord come forth against these devourers , even as a Lyon bereaved of her young ones ; for the Lord wil not suffer the spoile of his Heritage any longer , but wil dress his Vinyard that it may bring forth fruit unto him . And now is the Lord casting out the blind Watchmen and the foolish Prophets which have followed their own spirit , and have seen nothing ; and all such is the Lord casting out , and his everlasting fire is he kindling amongst them . And now I hear a cry of torment going through the Nation . Can any kindle a fire among Serpents , and they not be offended and shoot their stings ? Can any touch the Vipers , but they wil swell with venom ? And when Scorpions are trodden upon , wil they not shew forth their strength ? Can that nature suffer death patiently ? Nay , patience proceedeth from that Seed which slayeth the enmity , and destroyeth the man of sin ; and therefore as we have one Seed to witness for , so there is one to witness against ; and as it is the Work of the Spirit of God to approve the things that are of God , so it is his Work also to reprove those things which are contrary to sound Doctrine , to the end that every one may know as well what to reject and deny as error , as what to own for truth and sound doctrine . Therefore of necessity must every one be turned to the Light which Christ hath enlightned them withall , that they may discern what they are to approve , and what they are to reprove ; and that judgement is true which stands in the Light , and in the measure of the Spirit of Truth . To the READER . MEN of low degree are vanity , and men of high degree are a lye , and the heart of man is desperately wicked and deceitful above all things . Hear this ye wise men and foolish ; The more ye strive against the Lord , the more is your wound made incurable ; and the higher you rise in envy , always the deeper is your fall in confusion . And now Christian Reader , whose heart God hath opened to see and behold the things that be eternal , and can truly discern of different causes , and between the good and the evil , and between the light and the darkness ; This Book is sent forth in the pursuit , and after a Book called Hos●nna to the Son of David , &c. by a nameless Author , whose work indeed was hardly worthy of an honest mans Name , though very subtilly and craftily he prosecutes his purpose , and traverses his steps full cunningly , as this worlds wisdom could guide him , in which wisdom he cannot know or receive the things of God , and therefore it cannot be expected that the things of God should be received from that wisdom ; and though he hath confounded in his words his description of the Light of Christ , sometimes speaking well of it , a●d sometimes otherwise , and not knowing hardly whereof he hath affirmed , his words are so confounded and mixed in his corrupt reason , in giving forth his knowledge of the things of God , which he seems to be ignorant of , but only as he hath the knowledge of them from the Letter , by which no man can come to the knowledge of God , nor of the things of his Kingdom , without the revelation of the Spirit of Jesus , and the operation of the same Spiri● : But Friends , the Testimony of God stands sure for ever , though men would confound it in their own reason : And this is the Testimony , That Christ lighteth every man that cometh into the world , which Light is sufficient to lead every man to God , or else to condemn every man from God ; and this Testimony is true , notwithstanding all the opposition against it ; and it shall abide sure for ever , though men strive never so much in the gain-saying of it . And this is the Testimony which we have born , and shall bear to the end ; and who believes it , and who believes it not , this is the hand of the Lord according to his pleasure , and to him we leave it , and so we do and must clear our consciences from time to time , while the Lord gives us a being . And herein we are a good savour to God , and our reward is with him , whether Israel be gathered or no , Isa. 49. And also this nameless Author , which is supposed to be one John Jackson , known in this City , hath taken some seeming occasion against us by searching our Books , and ( as he saith ) hath found some contradictions in them , which may appear to be so to his dark mind ; yet in the sight of the spirit of the Lord , that is truth , which he sees to be no other than error : However this is sent forth for the true information of peoples minds , that they may know that truth is bold and confident , and that it is Armour which defendeth from all Enemies , and giveth strength to answer the craftiness of men . And this same John Jackson hath shewed himself now to be one with the common Priests of the world ; for as they have done , so hath he opposed the way and people of God , and with the very same arguments , shewing that he is of the very same spirit with them , his discourse and arguments being of the same nature as theirs are ; yea he hath shewed himself to be of the very same spi●it with all the open prophane wretches which doth revile , and scorn , and abuse in every Town and Countrey , the Lords people ; and as they do so , so hath he written with subtile Arguments to the very same end , as they reproach and scorn ( to wit ) in a derision , and despising the way and servants of the Lord ; so that his self-separation is now seen what it is , to be a very cheat and hypocrisie , who while he professeth a separation fr●m the World , doth practice the very same wickedness ▪ and is not changed from them in nature , though he be in appearance . But what a poor work hath he brought forth in two years time ? which he saith his work hath been as Embers raked up in ashes , yet a work that gains no praise of God , nor very little of the praise of any man : It seems he hath hatched mischief upon his bed , and brought it forth in the morning : Who would have thought but a wise man in that time would have brought forth a larger piece , and more to purpose ? I am sure he might have made better use of his time in another exercise , than to have writ against the servants of the Lord : It had been more honest for him to have set his pen to paper , and studyed to have given his testimony against the Prid● , and Drunkenness , and Oppression , and Whoredoms , and Wickedness in this great City . I say , it had been more honest , and liker a Saint , to have sought the reforming of prophaneness and wickedness that greatly abounds in this City , than to have studyed two years to bring forth his invented stuff against a harmless and innocent people , which he , nor any can justly charge with evil , but as he hath digged deep by his imaginations , in recollecting a seeming-contradiction out of our writings , which is no contradiction , no more then Christs words are , who saith , Except ye eat my flesh , and drink my blood , ye have no life in you : And yet in the same discourse saith , The flesh profits nothing : And for Isaiah to go with the Word of the Lord to Hezekiah , to tell him he should dye and not live ; yet in the same instant of time , told him he should live and not dye : Would not John Jackson have counted these contradictions ? But what he hath done in this , in sending forth a Book against the Quakers , he hath been so far from beating down sin , drunkards , and rude scorners , and abusive men , that he hath fully strengthened their hands , and the wickedst people in this Nation are very glad of his work ; he hath given them matter to oppose truth withall ; but his reward and theirs shall be both with one hand , and he shall drink his portion in the same Lake with such whose hands he hath strengthened ; and let him know , and them all , God hath established us upon a sure Mountain , which the Gates of Hell and Death cannot prevail against . So his work is counted of us , and cast by as our spoiled prey of Babylons treasure ; onely this is sent abroad after it in the pursuit of it , which is not done with multitudes of words of mans wisdom , but in the plain nakedness of innocent truth , which is more strength than all his arguments of guile whereby he would deceive the people ; but he can deceive none but such as are deceived already ; for all that are in the Light , and in the Truth , sees beyond all that he can say , and are established where his words can never reach them , to take away their peace , or disquiet them ; for as I said , we are established upon a sure foundation , and are tryed and proved , and cannot be blown away with any windy Doctrines of men , which begets into strife , and not into true sincerity of heart , but wo unto that man that works offence , and doth cast stumbling-blocks in the way of the simple . And though the Lords people be a suffering people , yet wo unto them that cause thom to suffer . And though he and some others in their spirits were elevated , thinking thereby to trample upon the innocent by that occasion happ●ning concerning J. N. which was not suffered of the Lord to be as an occasion to destroy his people , but as an occasion to try them , and to prove them , and thereby are they tryed and proved , and the more setled rather than confounded ; and John Jackson and such like may glory in such things for a moment , because the appearance of it seems evil , yet the Lord will make their glorying void , for the Lord hath ways enough to preserve his people ; and this we have found in many needful times . And as concerning this thing which was looked upon as a breach among us by many , yet it 's over , and Truth stands a top of it , and the beauty of Truth appears through it all , and Truth is more lovely when it is proved and purged : What if the Lord suffer his to be led and tempted for a season , let not the wicked boast of this ; for though the righteous fall , he shall rise again ; but the wicked fall into mischief . But yet we learn something by this , what a great use the Devil hath made hereof , and how many Books and lying Scribblers hath been sent forth about it concerning us , which are all counted by us no better than the most corrupted Treasure that ever grew in Babylon ; and the best of it is but baubles to please vain minds ; for men of sound understandings can take no pleasure therein . And we see how by all means the Devil and his people seeks occasion against the ways and people of Gods and how glad are the wicked when they get an occasion against the Lords people ! And how do they glory in it , and boast in it for a time , thinking that their hands are strengthened in a greater boldness to do mischief ! And John Jackson is one of those that takes pleasure in these things , and he hath managed his business with a great deal of craft , but there are none that will praise him for it , except such whose wicked hands he strengthens , and such as he must have stumblings , after the way of the Lord hath been so fully manifested , and they receive it not , and they must fall and be broken . And seeing that the wicked doth take occasion , and seeks occasion against the innocent , this will make many more watchful and more circumspect , and more to walk in God's wisdom , and to deny their own wayes , lest offences come by them : And let him put off his Armor , and lay down his Weapons , and I wish he may spend the next two years to come better than he hath done these last , aod that the little fire in the Embers may kindle to the burning of his corruption , rather than into a blind zeal against the innocent people . And what in this Book is written , is not to contend or strive for mastery , but to clear the Truth , and to remove all cause of stumblings from before the face of all the upright in heart . A Friend to all people , E.B. London the third of the ninth month , 1657. MAny untimely Births in ages past and present have been brought forth , and the Work of such hath alwayes been to destroy the Heir , the Seed which the Lord hath blessed , that so the Inheritance might be theirs , and so would thrust themselves into the Kingdom ; but they know while the Seed of the promise is alive , it keeps them out , and will not let them meddle with those things which they are not born unto ; for they are sons of bondage , and children of falshood , and must not be heirs with the son of the free woman , &c. David , out of whose root the righteous seed did arise , the bright and Morning-star , he saw that Seed in his days , and was aware of them , and gave his testimony concerning them , saying , In heart ye work wickedness , you weigh the violency of your hands in the Earth ; the wicked are estranged from the Womb , they go astray as soon as they be born , speaking lyes ; their poyson is like the poyson of a Serpent , they are like the deaf Adder that stoppeth her ear , charm one never so wisely . Break their teeth , O God , in their mouth ; break out the teeth of the young Lyons , O Lord , let them melt away as waters that run continually , when he bendeth his bow to shoot his arrows , let them be as cut in pieces , as a Snaile which melteth ; let every one of them pass away like the untimely birth of a woman , that they may not see the Sun , &c. Psal. 58.2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8. And again he saith , Behold he travelleth with iniquity , and hath conceived mischief , and brought forth falshood , Psal. 7.14 . and so there was a travelling and labouring before they could get their iniquity brought forth , as we have true declarations concerning the ages past , how many have travelled and brought forth wind and confusion ; so likewise in this age by experience can we give testimony of the like births which hath been brought forth to the sl●ughter amongst Babylons children , and here is one of the same birth born and brought forth in this City of London , to which I shall speak something at present ; although he conceal his Name , yet the seed you shall know by its fruits ; it is one that would be reckoned amongst those children that in the Temple cryed Hosanna to the Son of David , M●tth . 12.15 . But the Seed which David called Lord is risen , and hath rebuked the false voice ; for it is not every one that cryeth Lord , nor every one that cryeth Hosanna , that enters into the Kingdom , but such as heareth the Word of God , and doth it . Now the testimony which this Author gives to that which after a long travel is come forth , is this , That it hath been in his breast two years and upwards , while it at length is come forth as an untimely birth , or as that which is born out of due time , labouring under the burden of being both unnecessary and unseasonable . Such a Testimony as this , seems to beget a Wonder in the airy Spirits of men , as if a Monster were to be seen , ( What , two yeares travel , and yet an untimely birth ! ) And many such false cryes are in this City , which enters into the sensual part of men , and gets into the affections ; but there is a Seed risen which hath received from the Father the spirit of judgement and understanding , and it doth not own things according to the report , nor judge of things according to their names in outward appearance , but hath a measuring line given unto it , and a true ballance whereby voices , ways , worships , and testimonies is tried before they be approved ; and therewith shall this spirit be tried , and voice which is come forth crying Hosanna to the Son of David , or a testimony to the Lords Christ ; which being truly weighed and searched , may prove a testimony against the Lords Christ , which hath enlightned every man that cometh into the world , in setting up mans spirit to be the light instead of the Lords Christ. But first let us consider the burden under which this man hath laboured ; which is , as he saith , that which is both unnecessary and unseasonable . First unnecessary , because the same hath been before by better hands ; so it is not to be admired as a Monster , because it hath already been , and effected nothing . Secondly , unseasonable , because those are already resolved , that Jesus Christ is the true light which hath enlightned every man that cometh into the world , which he would resolve , that the spirit in every man is that light ; and so according to this , every man must follow his own spirit instead of following the light which Christ hath enlightned him withal . Now this burden thus considered , which is both unnecessary and unseasonable , having been in his brest above two years , all that have received the spirit of judgement , and knows the workings of the mysterie of iniquity , and can truly read the state of those which are filled with unrighteousness , knows that this birth is cursed before ever it came forth , and it had been better that it had never been born nor brought forth into the world ; for it will be to the great aggravation of his sorrow and misery which did conceive it , and so long travel in it , and at last brought it forth ; but among the untimely births shall we reckon it , which never saw the Sun , nor never received blessing from the Father ; and happy shall he be that rewardeth thee as thou hast rewarded us , and happy shall he be that takes and dasheth thy untimely birth against the stones , Psal. 137.8 , 9. Against this birth hath the Lord stretched forth his everlasting arm to dash in pieces ; and this is not the first of Babylons children which in this age and in this City hath been brought for●h to the spoil , nor the first which this man hath brought forth ; for he hath brought forth another without a name , which is both as unnecessary and as unseasonable as this : And so from experience he may say , that it is both unnecessary and unseasonable either to conceive , or bring forth any such thing against the seed which the Lord hath blessed ; for there was never any as yet which did strive against the Lord or his anointed ones which did prosper , neither shall to the ends of the earth . So the burden of this man is searched and judged , and f●und not to be the burthen of the word of the Lord , though he thought it to be so , when in him he felt the fire of enmity , b●yling and bubling up within him , as in his Epistle : But we have found it to be such a burthen as the false Prophets in Jerusalem did see for the people , which was false burthens and causes of banishment , Lam. 2.14 . But if the fire of the Lord had been kindled in him , it would have consumed this birth in the womb , before ever it had been brought forth . But the hour is coming and now is , in which the Lord is fulfilling his promise according to the Scriptures , which saith , that he will make Jerusalem a burthensome stone for all people ; all that burthen themselves with it shall be cut in piece● , though all the people upon the earth be gathered together against it , Zac. 12.3 . And as this was spoken , so it is fulfilled , and fulfilling , that the testimony of God may be sealed up among his children : For now is the light risen with which the Lord Christ is gathering into the new Jerusalem , the City of the living God , and now hath many burthened themselves with it , and so burthened , that they cannot tell how to unburthen themselves of it . But to ease themselves of that burthen which is ready to press them down , they break forth into reviling terms , and unsavory speeches , and false assertions against the light , and those that walk in it , and will deny both the light and children of light to be spiritual : Some calling it natural light , some calling it natural conscience , some created light , some the light of reason and understanding ; some old creation light , some a dim light , some the spirit of man , and so burthen themselves with it : and when they have both spoken and printed such things to ease them of their burthen , their burthen grow● again ; and so they do not cease to vex and grieve the holy spirit of God from day to day , and when they have burthened themselves with the enmity against the light , and the works of righteousness , proceeding forth from it to the father , then they cry the burthen of the Lord , the fire of the Lord within them . But saith the Lord to such , I will destroy that man and his house , and the burthen of the Lord shall ye mention no more , for every mans word shall be his burthen : for ye have perverted the words of the living God , of the Lord of hosts our God , Jer. 23.36 . Therefore is the measuring-line gone forth to measure the false burthens whereby they pervert the words of the living God , with their own words and imaginations ; and unto those which ever were reproachers of the way and people of God , the Lord saith , I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you , and a perpetual shame which shall not be forgotten , Ier. 13.40 . So this is written that no man should any more burthen themselves with the burthensom stone , whereby they will be broken to pieces if they fall upon it : But that every one may come to it , that with it they may see their false burthens , and the sin which doth so easily beset them , and may cease grieving of the spirit of the Lord while his spirit striveth with them ; and may come to know every man his own word , which will become his burthen when it returns again unto him . But the word of the Lord goeth forth and returns not empty , neither doth it burthen him which it goes forth from , when it returns again unto him . Although the true burthen of the word of the Lord be known in many before it go forth from them . Therefore then seeing that it is an untimely birth , and not that which is born of the spirit , which is come forth from him to whom I now am to speak . Now least others being in the same blindness with him , think as he doth , that it is a true voice , or Hosanna to the son of David , or a true testimony to the Lords Christ , I shall weigh his testimony , seeing that the true voice is gone forth both in the days of his flesh , and since ; in which days he was truly declared to be the light of the world , and the true light which lightneth every one that cometh into the world , Joh. 1.9 . Joh. 8. Now seeing that this Author hath set up another thing to be the light which hath enlightned every man , then Christ , viz. the spirit of , 〈◊〉 . I shall trie this testimony according to the Scriptures , whether it be a testimony of the Lords Christ , or a testimony against him , in these things following , which are the Heads of his Doctrine concerning the Light. Concerning the LIGHT , what it is . It is the spirit of every man which is in him , and without which he cannot be a man , and is the candle of the Lord , Prov. 20 27. This spirit of a man is the Reason of a man , or tht Understanding of a man. What this Light doth , it gives him to know his Creator , and the end of his creation , ( viz. ) who made him , and why he was made ; also how he ●●ould answer the end of him that made him ; and that God set up this light in man to see by , both whom he is to serve , and how he is to serve him , together with the reason thereof , because God made him . And with this light God hath set up a Law , which Law is called Light , Prov. 6.23 . whereby the will and mind of his Creator is made known unto him , and he sufficiently qualified to see it , understand it , &c. p. 7. It searcheth the inward parts of the belly : At first it moved upward , and it could look God in the face and serve him : But now since the fall the Thief is got into this candle , and hath dim'd the light , & covered the aspiring ascendent quality , & now it burns downward , and discovers the things beneath , p 6. That it is all eye , it sees all that is done , but doth nothing ; it neither likes nor dislikes , approves nor disproves , but as it is in conjunction with a Law. p. 10. Thae it is the property of Light to make manifest , Eph. 5 , 13. pag 29. That it is not in the power of the Light , as it is in every man , so much as to call any thing that is done , either good or evil . p. 32. That the Light did drive Adam from the voice and presence of God ; so far is the Light from leading up to God , that it drives the soul from God , and keeps him in the fall , p. 53. That it doth not lead into all truth such as love it and obey it , p. 54. Nor doth it reveal all truth to them that love it and obey it : And that neither the Light , nor the Law doth convince of the sin of unbelief . That the Lamp and the Light are convertible terms ; Thy word is as a Lamp , Psal. 119.105 . and that the Light and the Law is one , p. 30. So by this the Light which is the spirit of man , or mans Reason ; and the Law and the Word which of that which is called a testimony of the Lords Christ , we shall trie it with the former Testimony of the Lords Christ , as it is written in the Scriptures , which was given forth from those which were true witnesses . First , as in answer to these things , there is not one Testimony in the Scriptures , neither from Prophet nor Apostle , that ever said the spirit of man , or mans reason and understanding was the Light which every one that cometh into the world is enlightned withal : but the testimony of truth concerning those which followed their own spirits , is this , The Lord sent his Prophet Ezekiel to cry , W● unto the foolish Prophets that followed their own spirits , and had seen nothing , Ezek. 13 3. Now they were not without the spirit of a man ; for then they could not be a man , as he saith : now if they had the spirit of man , and reason , and if this was all eye , how was it that they saw nothing , when he saith , It sees all things ? so it is not a true testimony of the Light , nor of the Lords Christ : But the spirit of man is the candle of the Lord , and the Lord having lighted it , then it searcheth the inward parts of the belly . And David , who knew wh●t the spirit of man was , and what a candle was without light , and what it was when it was lighted , he said , For thou wilt light my candle ; the Lord my God will enlighten my darkness , Psal. 18.28 . So if the spirit of man be the candle of the Lord , then whether doth not Christ enlighten every man which cometh into the world ? and whether is not that light Christ , seeing the spirit is but the candle , and that it must be lighted ? Another testimony of his , is this , That it is the property of light to make manifest , Eph. 5.13 . but all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light ; for wha●soever doth make manifest , is light , p. 29. And again in p. 32 he saith , that it is not in the power of the light , as it is in every man , so much as to call any thing which is done , good or evil . Answ. Whether of these two contraries must men believe , whether the light is able to make manifest whatsoever is reprovable ; or that there is not power in it to call any thing good or evil ? But by this all men may see that this is not a true testimony to the Lords Christ , nor to his Light. Never was there any such doctrine preached by any that cried Hosannah to the Son of David , nor that did give testimony to the Lords Christ , That there is not power in the light to call any thing done , good or evil . Now let all who have received the measuring-line , and the equal ballance , weigh and consider , seeing the Scripture saith , Whatsoever thing is approvable is made manifest by the light . Is evil deeds reprovable ? then they are made manifest , then you see them to be evil deeds ; lying to be an evil deed , swearing to be an evil deed , drunkenness to be an evil deed , covetousness to be an evil deed , pride to be an evil deed , whoredom to be an evil deed , false accusing to be an evil deed , gain-saying the truth to be an evil deed , anger and wrath to be evil deeds , and these things are reprovable , & as the light doth make them manifest , so it reprove● them , and such are convinced of sin because they believe not in Christ ; so that unbelief is reprovable , and is made manifest by the light . And whereas some say , That the light doth not reprove for the sin of unbelief ; that is false , for unbelief is reprovable , and whatsoever things are reprovable is made manifest by the light ; but he that do●th evil hateth the light , and will not bring his deeds to the light lest the light should reprove him , Joh. 3.20 . And Jesus said unto certain Greeks & people which stood by him , which objected against his words , which was no Saints nor Believers , While ye have the light believe in the light , that ye may be the children of light , Joh. 13.36 . Now he did not bid them believe in that which could not reprove unbelief : I am come a light into the world , that whosoever believeth in me should not abide in darkness . And Jesus cried an● said , He that believeth on me , believeth on him that sent me . Also Joh. 12.44.46 . This light was not mans reason nor understanding , neither was it mans spirit that was the true light which lightneth every one that cometh into the world , Joh. 1 9. Again , another false testimony concerning the light , is this , That the light did drive Adam from the voice and presence of God ; and so far is the light from leading up to God , that it drives the soul from God and keeps him in the fall , p. 53. Answ. This Doctrine is to turn the truth of God into a lye , and to call light darkness , and darkness light ; for there is no such testimony in the Scriptures that the light did drive Adam from the voice and presence of God ; but Adam saith , I was afraid because I was naked , and I hid my self . It was because he had disobeyed Gods voice , not because he was enlightned ; for the Scripture saith , It is your sins that hath separated you from God ; it doth not say that it is the light which hath separated you from God , or driven you from him : this may well be called a damnable Doctrine , or Doctrine of Devils . Hath God sent his Son a light into the world to drive the souls from God , and keep them in the fall : Now let all consider and judge that ever knew the light , whether it be darkness , or it be light which drives the soul from God , and keeps it in the fall . Now this doctrine being compared with the Scriptures , is utterly false ; and there is a few that profess godliness in this Nation , that can bear it , or approve of it ; and for such as account themselves the highest profession , and above forms , under the name of Seekers , to publish such a thing in print ; here it appears that the best of men i● but as a Briar , and the most upright is sharper then a Thorn-Hedge ; for the day of thy Watch-men , and thy Visitation cometh , now shall there be perplexity , Mic. 7.4 . Now here is a day for tryal , that they which can , may try the spirits and doctrines whether they be of God. Now I shall lay it to that of God in all , is it not the work of the Devil to drive the soul from God , and to keep people in the fall ? If so , then it is not the work of the light which lightneth every man that cometh into the world ; is not this to call light darkness , to say that the light is so far from leading up to God , that it drives the soul from God , and keeps him in the Fall : What is that which leads man out of the fall , if the light keep man in it ? As this is contrary to Scripture , and to truth , so it is contrary to his own words , as in pag. 7. there saying , That by the Light is the will and mind of the Creator made known unto man , and he sufficiently qualified to see it , and understand it . Answ. How can these two stand together , That the light drives man from God , & keeps him in the fall ; and again , That it makes known the will and mind of the Creator unto him , and sufficiently qualifies him to see and understand it ; This cannot truly be called Hosanna to the Son of David , nor A Testimony to the Lords Christ , but a line of confusion which is stretched out , wherein darkness is come forth as a cloud , and spreads it self over the earth to darken peoples minds from the knowledge and understanding of truth , by words without knowledge ; but his folly shall proceed no further unreproved and made manifest . Another false Testimony concerning the light is this , That at first it moved upward , and man could look God in the face , and serve him ; but now since the fall the Thief is got into the Candle , and now the Spirit burns downward , and discovers the things beneath . Answ. What is the nature of the Light changed ? or is the spirit so changed , that before it ascended upward , and now downward ? We shall try this according to the Scripture , which saith , Who knoweth the Spirit of man that goeth upward , and the spirit of a Beast which goeth downward to the earth , Eccles. 3.21 . so then if it goes downward , it is the spirit of a Beast , & not the spirit of a man : And here it is plainly evident , that he knows not the spirit of man from the spirit of a Beast , so unfit to cry Hosanna to the Son of David , or bear testimony to the Lords Christ. But as for the Light which hath enlightned man that cometh into the world ; the fall did not ●hange the quality of the light ; for the light is the same as it was , but darkne●s cannot comprehend it , neither knows how to give a true testimony of it , but confusedly speaks of two lights ; the one springing up with man in his naturall birth , suitable to his naturall birth , and another light sutable to the new birth that is born of the spirit . This is a test●mony which is not to be found in Scripture , to be two Lights sutable to the two births ; for he that is born of the fl●sh persecutes him that is born of the Spirit , and God hath put enmity between the two Seeds ; but to say that there is two lights sutable , and so the one natural , and the other spiritual ; the one of the earth , earthly ; and the other of the Lord , from Heaven , as the two births are ; this is not a testimony according to truth ; for the light is but one , and the spirit of truth is but one ; and the same spirit which led the Saints which believed , into all truth , the same did convince the world of sin , because they did not believe in Christ , Joh. 16.3 . And that light which is the condemnation of the world , who love the darknes rather then Christ , the same is the Saviour of all them that believe ; and one man loves it , & another hates it ; yet it is the same light , Joh. 3.19 . but the Scripture bears no such testimony as that there is two lights in man , the one spiritual , the other natural ; and for any man to say that the light of Christ is natural , is blasphemy against the Son of God , and is a sin not easily forgiven ; and it is hard for such to find the place of repentance ; for every one that comes to repentance , must first come to the light which Christ hath enlightned them withall , and must know it to be spiritual , and confess it so , and with this light come to discern the two births , the one from the other , and their several natures ; and how that the one birth is guided by the light , it being as the eye , giving them to see what to speak , before they speak and so keeps them out of the worlds line , which is confusion ; and as a Te●cher giving them to understand what to do before they do it , and so keeps them out of the condemnation , bringing their works before-hand to judgement , & so their works are wrought in God , who answer the light which they be enlightned withal ; but the light is not sutable , nor according to that birth which is born after the flesh , but condemns that in all its ways and actions , and is given to lead the creature out of that nature , and out of that birth , into the regeneration , to lead out of the deeds of darkness , and out of the shadow of death , into the living inheritance , among those that are sanctified in Christ Jesus . Another testimony concerning the light , relating to the two Covenants is this , That as there was a new Covenant diverse from the former , the old , so there must of necessity be another light to accompany it , diverse from the former , that is , as then mans spirit , so now the spirit of the Lord , &c. page 35. Answ. There are diversities of gifts , but the same spirit ; and there are differences of Administrations , but the same Lord ; and there are diversities of operations , but it is the same God which worketh all in all , 1 Cor. 12.4 5.6 . Now all people is to know that there was a ministration different from the administration of the Gospel , the new Covenant a different administration from the old ; but there is no necessity that it be ministred from another spirit , nor from another Lord , nor from another Light ; therefore to say , that because the Covenants or Administrations are diverse one from another , that therefore it must not be the same spirit , but the one by the spirit of man , the other the spirit of God , and that the lights is to be diverse the one from the other , this is a false Testimony ; for the same spirit in which the Law was administred ( the first Covenant ) in the same was the second administred , which doth make perfect according to the conscience . Now as all people is brought out of their own inventions and imaginations , and from following their own spirits , to own the light of Christ which hath enlightned them ; they should know the diversities of Administrations , and the diversity of operations , and yet but one Light , and one Power , and one Spirit , and not as many lights as births , nor as many spirits as operations , not every Administration to have a diverse light to accompany it ; for though there be that are called gods , whether in heaven , or in earth , as there be gods many , and lords many , but to us there is but one God the Father , of whom are all things , and we in him ; and one Lord Jesus Christ , by whom are things , and we by him ; howheit there is not in every man that knowledge , 1 Co● . 8.5.6 7. and though there be in the world many lights , yet to us there is but one , him by whom all things was made , which doth enlighten every man that commeth into the world , that in him all men might believe ; & as every one believes in this light , they shal know that mans reason & understanding is not the light which every man is enlightned withal ; for some are unreasonable men , and some are void of understanding . Neither is the spirit of man the light of the world , which doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world ; neither is any thing called the light of the world ( in the Scripture ) but Christ ; for saith Christ , I am come a light into the world , that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness , Joh. 12.46 . Then spake Jesus again unto them , saying , I am the light of the world ; he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness , but shall have the light of life , Job . 8.12 . And again , I am the light of the world , Joh. 9.5 . And the messenger which was sent before his face to prepare the way of the Lord , and to bear witness to the truth , said , In him was life , and the life was the light of men , and that was the true light which enlightneth every man that cometh into the world ; Joh 1 4 9. And this is the light which in all ages , generations , and under all administrations the Saints did bear their testimony in ; and this light did never change nor alter , though ages and generations have changed , and men have changed , and do change , and the minds of men change , and their ways change , and their worships change , and forms and religions , which are not according to the light which Christ hath enlightned them withal , which changeth not ; which as it is followed , will lead them out of those ways which do change , which is not the living way ; for the new and living way is one with the light which every man is enlightned withal , which is every mans way to the Father who follow it , and every mans condemnation who disobey it . Another testimony concerning the first man Adam in his first estate without sin , the sum of it is this , That as it was at first , that is , at his beginning made so , that is , without sin , for so was he made Eccles . 7.29 . upright , without crookedness , without invention , that this man , yea in his purest naturals , cannot receive nor discern the things of the spirit of God until he is born of the Spirit , or from above , according to Joh. 1.13 . & 8.3 , 6. 1 Cor. 2.14 . Answ. This testimony is false ; for the first Adam before the fall was the son of God , Luk 3 38. and did know and perceive Gods voice and power , and he knew Gods command , That he should not eat of the Tree of knowledge of good and evil , which if he did he should die the death : for he was in Gods image , and the Lord spoke unto him , and he perceived it , and he had right to eat of the tree of life which was in the midst of the Garden ; and if Adam had continued in that state , there needed no Law to have been added because of transgression , neither had there needed any precept upon precept , nor line upon line ; neither any teacher or instructer of the ignorant ; for there had no death passed over to separate God from his creature which he had made in his own image , and given him power over all creatures ; but to say the Son of God in the image of God , without sin , in uprightness and power , to say that he is sensual , having not the spirit ; or to say that he is the natural man that cannot receive nor discern the things of the spirit of God , this is greater blasphemy then that which the Apostle reproved , Rev. 2.9 . in those which said they were Jews , and were not but were the Synagogue of Satan and all such which brings forth such mists of darkness & ignorance to blind the eye in people which should see the things of God in clearness , are to be reproved sharply that they may be ashamed , and no more bring forth that which is both u●n●cessary and unseasonable , and contrary to truth , as J. Jackson hath done . And further he adds , That the natural man which Paul speaks of , 1 Cor. 2.14 . and compares it with 1 Cor. 15.44.45 . is not to be taken for the carnal sinful man , but for a man in puris naturalibus , meerly natural , p. 37 Let all therefore consider Pauls words , Which things also we speak , not in the words which mans wisdom teache●h , but which the holy Ghost teacheth , comparing spiritual things with spiritual : but the natural man receiveth not the things of the spirit of God , for they are foolishness unto him , neither can he know them , because they are spiritually discerned , 1 Cor. 2.13 , 14. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things , yet he himself is judged of no man , ver . 15. Now whether any man that hath the spirit of God can judge that this is not spoken of carnal and sinful men ; or whether any by the spirit of God can judge that this was spoken of a man in the pure nature , without sin ; and let all who have the spirit of judgement judge whether Adam in the image of God without sin , did account the things of God as foolishness unto him ; and if any so judge , let them prove it , That in Adams innocency , without sin , the things of God were foolishness unto him ; or whether the cross of Christ which Paul preached was foolishness unto any but unto carnal and sinful men . So every man I exhort to come to that of God in you , to know the salt in your selves to savour withal , that you may know that Doctrine that stands in the devised words of mans wisdom , and not in the power of God , which would turn the truth of God into a lye , and pervert the mind from the right understanding of the things of God : But the day is come which hath brought forth light , and knowledge , & understanding to the simple , whereby they see the deeps which are covered with darkness , & they come to see and comprehend mens wisdom , and their fountain what it brings forth ; for how should that which is unclean , bring forth that which is clean ? So that now we do not only know the words of those which have set themselves against the truth , but the spirit and power from whence they speak , and so in faithfulness bear our testimony against it , that the folly of those may be made manifest unto all men who wilfully oppose the truth , and their own selves through wilful-blindness , and so count themselves unworthy of eternal life ; exercising their strength , wisdom , and knowledge to shut up the kingdom of God against themselves and others , labouring to keep all people from the light in the darkness , as is made manifest in this generation . How many have set themselves to preach and print against the light which Christ the way to the Father hath enlightned every man that cometh into the world withal ? But now hath God the Father raised up his own seed acco●ding to his promise out of the North to spoil Babylon , Jer. 51.48 . I have raised up one from the North , saith the Lord , and he shall come from the rising of the Sun ; he shall call upon my name , and he shall come upon Princes as upon morter , and as the Potter treadeth clay . Isa. 41.25 . The promised seed of the Lord is come forth , and is spreading over the Nations as the morning over the mountains , and blessed are they that receive their testimony ; for from the wrath of the Almighty shall they be delivered ; their bread shall not fail them , and their waters shall be sure , and their fountain shall never be empty , but plenteous redemption shall they daily witness , and waters of life shall their thirst be satisfied with , and all the noise of the Bruits shall not hurt them ; for the Lord is with them ; therefore can they not be afraid , nor dismaid at that which cometh to pass upon the earth ; now because light is risen , therefore is the evil eys offended , a●d have now turned their testimonies against the light , to make people believe that it doth the same works that darkness , sin , & Satan doth , which is to drive the soul from God , & keep it in the fall , and that it is not able to shew the good or the evil of an action , to approve nor disapprove , which is true of the darkness , but not of the light ; For there is nothing that doth make manifest those things which are reprovable but the light ; neither is there any thing which doth bring man from that estate where he is driven from God , and lead him out of the fall , but the light ; and so it is time to come out from among all such for all people that desire to know Gods ways , lest they be partakers of their plagues , and there be none to deliver ; for many are hardning their hearts in this day of Gods tender love and mercy ; ●nd so evil do they requite the Lord , that instead of turning at his reproofs , that they may find mercy , they are in their wisdom devising evil words , and reproachful terms against the light by which the Lord doth reprove man for his iniquity , and are exercising all their abilities to make the light even as darkness , and would exclude the power of God from it : Whenas there is no man that doth receive power or wisdom from God , but in the light which Christ hath enlightned him withal ; therefore is Christ now preached as he declared himself to be the light of the world , Joh. 8. and as his messenger declared him to have enlightned every man that cometh into the world ; and this light is now preached and witnessed to be sufficient to lead unto God all that obey it , and to let them see that their works are wrought in God , Joh. 3. and is sufficient to be the condemnation of all the world that hate it , according to Joh. 3.19 . And for our thus bearing witness of the sufficiency of the light , many are risen up against us , even slanderous tongues , such as the poison of Asps is under ; but the Lord hath delivered us from them , and will manifest his strength unto us , in bearing testimony to his light , and the power of it , against all the powers of darkness , and overcome them ; for God hath given his power to his own seed , the children of light ; and those that rise up against them , it is but that they may be broken to pieces ; for whosoever falleth on this stone , they shall be broken to pieces , and on whomsoever it falls it will grind them to powder . Object . But some men say , That the light is not sufficient to lead unto God those that obey and follow it : and for a proof saith , That Paul did not disobey , but follow the light which was in him : and yet saith , That he obtained mercy because he did it ignorantly ; which if he had disobeyed the light , he had sinned against knowledge ; so the light in him was either not sufficient to discover to him the errour of his way , or at least it did suspend its act of enlightning him in the knowledg thereof ; it check●d him not , it convinced him not , &c. Answ. To say that Paul did not disobey , but follow the light within him , that is false ; For he followed his zeal in madness , and persecuting the Saints ; and followed his though●s which were false , thinking that he did God service , and thinking that he ought to do that which is contrary to the light , and so kick'd against the pricks , instead of following that which did prick him ; and as for him in that condition , and the rest which persecuted Stephen to death , though they did it ignorantly , yet it was not because they were not enlightned , nor because the light was not sufficient to have given them the knowledge of him whom they did persecute , but because they did resist that which was sufficient to have given them the knowledge . As Stephen , a man full of the holy Ghost , did bear witness , saying unto Saul and the rest , Ye stiff necked and uncircumcised in hearts and ears , ye do always resist the holy Ghost , as your fathers did , so do ye ; which of the Prophets have not your fathers persecuted , and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the just One , of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murtherers , who have received the Law by the disposition of Angels , and have not kept it . When they heard these things , they were cut to the heart . So here is little ground in those for any to say they follow the light within them , and to say that they was not enlightned , which had received the Law , which is light , by the disposition of Angels , and d●d not keep it . Here they disobeyed that which they had received , which was the light , and did always resist the holy Ghost which was able to have led them from their disobedience and stiffneckedness ; and if they did persecute to death for lack of knowledge , and so did it ignorantly , it was because they rejected knowledge , and forgot the law of their God which they had received , as the Priests did in Hos. 4.6 . and because they did forget the Lord , as those did in Jer. 18. so it was not because they were never convinced nor reproved , but because they would have none of his reproofs , for they would not walk in his ways , neither were obedient to his law . But I say , Did not Israel know ? To Israel he saith , All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gai●saying people , Rom. 10.21 . Therefore let no more such clamorous speeches come forth , as to say such have obeyed and followed the light within them ; which if they had , then when God had called , they would have answered , and it could not have been said they had been disobedient , which when Stephen told them of their resisting of the holy Ghos● , and their disobedience to the law , which was light , his words did answer something of God within them , when they were cut to the heart , and that which had disobeyed the holy Ghost , and the law which they had received , that did stone him to death , and therein they did kick against that which did prick them . But the li●ht of Christ is sufficient to lead all unto God which do obey and follow it ; and there was never any in all generations from Abel unto this generation , that did ever in such ignorance , and wilful impudency , preach and print against the sufficiency of the light of Christ as in this age is brought forth ; for as others did reject the lesser , so these the greater ; Others did disobey that which they had received from the disposition of Angels ; and those , that which is given by the Son of God , who saith , I am the light of the world . He doth not say that the spirit of man is the light of the World , nor that mans reason is the light of the World , as some have said ; neither did ever Christ say , That his light was insufficient ; but did bid those which were of the World believe in the light , that they migh be the children of light , Joh. 12.36 . and did tell such which were of the World , that the kingdom of God was within them . So there was something in them which was of power : but such a doctrine is now hated in the World , to preach any thing within man to be of power or ability to guide or lead man to God , or sufficient to believe in : but the S●ripture saith , The word of faith is in thy heart , ( which was the Word the Apostles preached ) to obey and to do it , and saith comes by hearing , and bearing by the Word of God : but how shall they hear without a Preacher ? B●t I say , Have they not all heard ? Yes verily , their sound went out into all the earth , and their words unto the ends of the World , but they have not all obeyed . But again it is said in the false Hosanna , That the discovery of sin and iniquity may be where the sound of Christ , as a door , as the light , as the way , may not have been ; and for proof saith , it was so in the first man ; that measure and degree of light which discovered sin to him , was the law written in him . Answ. He who is the light of the World , in him was life , and this life was the light of men , and he is before all things , and by him all things consist ; and the first man Adam who was made a living soul , and was the son of God , the light that was in him , was the light of the son of God , while he remained in Gods image , and when he was fallen from Gods image into transgression ; that which made manifest his transgression was the light which he was fallen from , & God did never write his law in mans heart but there was a measure of Christ : But men in ignorance and blindness pretend to be Ministers of distinctions between their Law & Christ , when as they neither know what they say , nor wherof they affirm , not seeing how it was added because of transgression , till the seed should come , ordained by Angels in the hands of a Mediator ; Gal. 3.19 . & as well ministred forth in the light of the Mediator : For though there was , and is diversity of administrations , and of operations , yet the same Lord , and the same Light , that Light in which the Prophets saw Christ , and prophesied before-hand of the coming of the Just , was the same in which the Apostles witnessed him come ; and the same light which lets men see their sins , is that which lets them see their Saviour , and leads them from their sins to Christ , as they are obedient to it . But to say there is the discovery of sin and iniquity where the sound of Christ as a door , the light , the way hath not been , this remains to be proved , seeing the Apostle saith , That the sound is gone into all the earth , and the words to the end of the world : Have they not at all heard ? Yes verily : That which makes manifest is light ; Is there light making sin manifest , and is there nothing of Christ , seeing that his life is the light of men , and that men have no light but what proceeds from his life ; When was ever Christ and the light which discovers sin , separated ? and where is that Scripture which saith that the sound of Christ , as a light , hath never been heard , where sin and iniquity is discovered , but that which hath brought forth these things may well be called an untimely birth , which ntver saw the Sun , not never knew the light which Christ hath enlightned every man withall which cometh into the world ? for a little of this fruit doth manifest that tree from whence it springs , & so we shall judge the tree by it's fruits : Another fruit from this tree is to give his testimony of the Law of Faith , which is this . How far the Law of Faith may be said to be written upon every mans heart , is not given unto me to understand ; only this glimpse I have of it , That it appears to have had an influence upon the heart of man by those sacrifices which were offered up to God before the publication of the positive Law , wherein as well Cain as Abel offered sacrifices , Gen. 4.4 . Answ. This testimony doth not proced from the word of Faith in thy heart ; for that would give an understanding how the Law of Faith is written in the heart , as well as how the Law of Works is written ; and this thy glimpse which thou sayes thou sees from the proposing of the promise , and the influence which thou sayes thou seest upon the heart of man , by the Sacrifices of Cain as wel as Abel , offered unto God ; if this thy pretended light and glimpse which is so far of Christ , be truly weighed and tryed , it may prove but a vain vision , and a divination of thy own heart , as all who consider thy testimony of the Law of Faith , in saying , that the discovery thereof ariseth from what is without ; and that it had never been known , nor never thought of , nor never would it , or could it rationally have come into the heart of man to have conceived such a thing , but from the declaration of God in his promise . Here it doth appear Faith is a mysterie to thee , and thy eye hath not seen it , nor the ear heard , neither hath it entered into thy heart to conceive Faith in the working and operation of it . And in that thou sayest well , that it was not given thee to understand how it is written upon every man's heart ; and thou had done well if thou had not stretched thy self beyond the line of thy knowledge and understanding ; for thou thy self confessest , that unto those first believers , Abel , Enoch , Noah , Abraham , Isaac , Jacob , Moses , David , Daniel , and the rest , there was communicated unto them a Spirit of Faith , and a Light sutable and proportionable , whereby they were enabled to behold Christ , who was the object of their Faith : Then if it did arise from the Spirit of Faith within them , & the Light of Christ , who was the Author of their Faith , it did not arise from the Declaration of God in the promise without ; so that the mysterie of Faith vvhich is held in a pure conscience , is yet to be learned , vvhich vvas vvitnessed amongst the Saints : So vvhen thou vvrites again of the Lavv of Works , or the Lavv of Faith , or the discovery vvhich the Lord maketh to his creature under the diversity of these administrations , keep back to the measure of the gift of God , and then vvil thy testimony be no larger then thy knowledge , vvhich is a guilt hath spread over many in these days ; but this I say , Blessed is the man which doth not condemn himself in the thing vvhich he allovveth , and vvhich doth not destroy himself vvith the breath of his ovvn mouth ; but there is a generation which their own breath as fire shall devour them . Again , concerning the Light which every man is enlightened withal , which is thy stumbling-block and rock of offence , as it is unto all the rest whose deeds are evil : Thou saist , God hath not annointed it to that Work , nor laid the weight of eternal salvation upon the shoulders thereof , it being too weak for that service . Answ. Him hath God annointed , who is the Light of the World , and hath enlightened every man that cometh into the World ; and there is no work of eternal salvation wrought , but in the Light which every man is enlightened withal ; and this Light is of him , and from him which bears the sins in his own body , and is not too weak for that service which the Father hath given him to do ; and this Light is Christ. And whereas some say , Hath every man Christ ? Every man hath Christ to save or to condemn him ; & Christ is as truly the condemnation of those whose deeds are evil , as he is the Saviour of them that believe ; and as those that believe in the Light , are already saved by Christ ; so also those that believe not in his Light which he hath enlightned them withall , are already condemned : And so Christ is near unto every one , to answer every mans work according to the nature of it , whether he serve sin unto death , or be found in the obedience of truth unto eternal life ; for now is the day appeared to try every mans Work of what sort it is ; and now are many offended because the Light is broken forth , and their eye is evil because the Lords is good . But wo unto the World because of offences ; if any have the Spirit of a King , let him search out the cause of the offence which is now broken forth amongst the children of men , that the enmity which is in all sorts of people of all professions , should rise up together , and become a body , the wicked jo●ning hand in hand , preaching , and printing , and crying for unity , which they are making up of enmity , that they may be strong against that which the Lord hath now brought forth in his Light and Power , to be Witnesses unto him in every place wheresoever he doth call them , witnessing forth his Mercy and Truth , by which iniquity is purged out , and preaching the Gospel to every creature , whereby they may come to the knowledge of the truth , that they may be saved : But in the World it is so come to pass in these days , that he that can but give reviling terms and hard speeches against the Light which Christ hath enlightned every man withall , calling it natural or insufficient ; and if they do but revile those whom they call Quakers , and put this in the beginning of his Book , then it passeth with toleration , and hath as good approbation from the World , as any of the Priests have for their Ministry ; but if any man begin to speak of the Light within , and the Annointing within , and the Word of Faith in the heart , and of the Mystery of Faith in a pure conscience , and of the sprinkling of the heart from an evil conscience , and of believing in the Light , as Christ said ; such a one speaking of these things , and not directing his speech in open reproach against them called Quakers , the peoples hearts will be fi●led with jealousies , lest he be one . So that even the Light is become a reproach unto them , and their derision daily ; but the Lords hand is turned against all such , and he is turning the wise men backward , and making their wisdom become foolishness : For once there was a seeking after Light in many , that it might rise and open the things of God unto them , and reveal the mysteries of his life , whereby their souls might be satisfied : And now when it is risen in many , and hath brought forth its powerful effects , now the man of sin hath his time , and doth prevail in many , to make them believe that it is not the Light , which is able to save the souls of them which believe in it , and doth beget a spirit of jealousie in them , which is stronger than death , and begetteth a fear in them , which worketh torment ; and many now doth fear and are jealous , that that Light is not the Christ which hath enlightened them , and every one that cometh into the World : And this is the work of Satan in the hearts of the disobedient , which as every one comes to obey his Light , and to answer his perfect love to them , which is manifest in the Light , tha● fear wil be cast out , and life wil be given to that Witness of God which once did breath after his life , without which the soul cannot rest nor be satisfied : And this shall many come to witness , as the man of sin comes to be revealed , which letteth , and will let , until he be taken out of the way , and then shall they see at what they have stumbled , and by what they have been overcome ; and then they will know that it had been good for them if they had walked in the Light of the Lord , instead of setting themselves against it : And as the Light it self by such before-mentioned is denyed , so the Testimony which the children of Light give of it , is also despised and contended against , as if it were not to be owned for a Doctrine of Truth , vvhich Doctrine of Truth hath been laid often before people , and is yet once more , that they may consider , prove and try , and so believe , and so be able to give a testimony from the Witness of God in themselves . First , We say that Christ is the Light of the World , according to his ovvn vvords , John 8.12 . And again we say , That he hath enlightened every man that cometh into the World , according to his vvords vvho vvas sent a Messenger before his face to bear vvitness to the truth , and his vvitness is true , John 2.9 . And as Christ hath enlightned every man that cometh into the World , so we say to every man , vvarning both small and great to believe in the Light , that they may be the children of Light , vvhich vvas Christ's Doctrine to the World , John 12.36 : And now what Christ doth and effecteth by it in those that believe in his Light , and followeth it , which effects and operations by the World is denyed , and by us is affirmed ; some of the effects of it I shall mention , which is opposed ; as first , That it wil not let those that are guided by it , take Gods Name in vain , but vvil draw them out of the Worships of the World , and keep them in the fear of God , and to stand stil in it , is the first step to peace . That it discovers things that are contrary to it . That it is their Teacher that love it , and their condemnation that hate it , according to Christs words , John 3.19 . That waiting in it , wil guide them to God , and shew them the way to the Father , as Christ saith , No man cometh unto the Father , but by me , John 14 ▪ 6. And no man cometh unto the Father by Christ , but as they are led and guided by his Light within them . That it opens all the Scriptures , and leads man out of the fall , up to God ; for him hath the Father given to be a Leader and Commander unto the people , and he leadeth them by his Light. Another effect is , That it convinceth of all ungodliness and worldly lusts , and is a Teacher and Director , teaching and directing in righteousness , purity and holiness , &c. And that the Light is but one in him that loves it , and in him that hates it , leading the one to God from whence it comes , to receive eternal life , and condemning the other from God , because he obeyeth not the truth , that he might be saved . And this is the Testimony of Truth which is now held forth , never to be denyed . But who hath believed our report ? even they to whom the Arm of the Lord is revealed : And this is the way by which people may come to know the truth of this Testimony , by obeying the Light which Christ hath enlightened them withal , thereby shall they know whether this Doctrine be of God , or whether we speak of our selves , and whether all those effects are not brought forth by the working of Christ's Light in them ; and then they shall not believe one●y because of our words , nor be envious against it because of other words , but wil find the testimony in themselves , which is according to the record which God hath given of hit Son , and according to the Testimony which we have given of the Light ; and he that believeth , shall be established . Now that which opposeth this , is that which bea●eth a testimony contrary to Christ , who saith , For this end was I born , and for this end came I into the world , to bear witness unto the truth ; and every one that is of the truth , heareth my voice , John 18.37 . And this was his witness , and his Messengers witness , that he was the Light of the world ; and , that this is the true Light which hath enlightened every man that cometh into the world , John 8.12 . John 1.9 . And this contrary testimony which is brought forth , is this , That it is the spirit of man that is the Light which hath enlightened every man ; and so going about to prove the spirit of man not to be sufficient , under this would destroy the sufficiency of the Light of Christ. But the Scriptures never did give testimony that the spirit of man was the Light of the World ; neither did we ever say , that this Light was the spirit of every man , nor a natural Light ; and therefore this man who hath writ a volume in proving a natural Light , or man's reason insufficient , let all people take notice what he contradicts or disproves by it ; he doth not by it contradict nor disprove any thing that we have said ; for we never did affirm that man's reason was the Light , but he hath laboured to contradict himself : He hath set up an Image , and then glories in breaking of it down , and from our words draws a false inference , and glories in confounding it ; & this is the general course of our opposers , to raise a false proposition or conclusion from their own imaginations , & then contradict it , and then cry , The Quakers contradicted , or confuted , and their Doctrine disproved , and they irrecoverably slain ; and many such cryes are gone forth in the World among people , like the noise of many waters . To which I answer , Nay , they are not of such a birth that they are so easily slain , nor of such a Doctr●ne that they are so easily disproved ; for the immortal birth is brought forth , unto which God hath given wisdom and understanding to be as wise as Serpents , and in their innocency is their wisdom brought forth ; which Seed inheriteth the strength of the Almighty : So though they be permitted to fight and contend against the truth , yet to prevail is nor given them . Therefore in vain is the Net spread in the sight of any bird , and in vain do they exercise their strength against the Lord 's Annointed ; for this which they have brought forth , is but as setting of bryars and thorns in battel against the Lord ; or as if the untimely birth should strive against that birth which is brought forth without deformity , to slay it , as those in former ages , who were wiser in their generation then the children of Light , sought to slay the Heir , that the Inheritance might be theirs . In like manner do men now also rise up against the life of the same Seed which is risen in the hearts of the children of men , to slay it ; that so they may profess the Scriptures in their high swelling words of vanity , having mens persons in admiration because of advantage ; for if this Seed doth live , which the Lord hath not only brought to the birth , but also brought forth , it will stop that profession which stands in the hypocrisie , and will quench that violence of fire in which that zeal flames out , which is not according to knowledge : But the Seed is risen which inherits the strength of the Almighty , which can bear all things , and suffer all things , and will come to reign over all gain-sayers ; for all the high swelling words of vanity shall come to nought , and truth shall be exalted over all , in the power of the eternal Spirit , when blackness of darkness wil cover all those spirits which have spent their strength against the appearance and manifestation of Truth ; and those that now boast themselves in their presumption against the servants of the Lord , and testimony of truth , shall come to be a servant of servants , even to the least in the Kingdom of God , before they have right unto that which they now profess , or before they be counted worthy to cry Hosanna to the Son of David , or to bear a testimony to the Lords Christ ; for he wil have none such to be his Witnesses as deny his Light which he hath enlightened every man withal ; for the true Witnesses bear this Testimony of Christ , That he is the true Light , and is the Light of the World , which hath enlightened every man that cometh into the World , that every man through him might believe ; and every one in whom the Witness is found true , is justified of God. Another Accusation is again Richard Farnsworth , for saying , That Christ did break the Passover with his Disciples ; and herein he is charged to want Light ; or that the Light in him was not sufficient to open this ; and that he did not discern between the Passover and the Supper of the Lord ; and likewise is accused for calling that a shadow which the Scripture saith was but to shew the Lords death till he came . Ans. To call the Supper the Passeover , doth not demonstrate that he wants light , neither that the Light is insufficient ; for the Di●ciples called it the Passeover which they prepared for him ; and Christ called it the Passeover which he eat with his Disciples , Mark 14.12 , 14. Matth. 26.20 , 21 , 22. and that which they eat , he broke ; but it doth not say , that he broke his bones , nor eat his bones ; yet he eat the Passeover with his Disciples . And whereas he is accused for calling that a shadow , and many now in imitation take Bread and Wine , and call that the Lords Supper , opposing those that are come to the Substance , and witness the substance , eating that which is meat indeed , and drinking that which is drink indeed : But this man which doth oppose Richard Farnsworth and others in these things , he hath the least reason to mention this Supper or the breaking of Bread , of any ; for others do call their breaking of Bread , and drinking of Wine , the Lords Supper , because they practise it ; but this man doth neither practice that as the Lord's Supper , nor witness the substance ; so that this is the greatest hypocrisie to contend about that , or to accuse others , in denying of that which he himself denies the practise of : S● , that this Accusers Doctrine and Accusations want both ligh● and reason . Another Accusation is against these two Writers , Richard Farnsworth , & Francis Howgil , as if they should be in an unreconciled difference ; because the one hath affirmed , That the Light of Christ is sufficient to open all the Scriptures : And the other saith , Thou that tells of opening Chapters or Verses by meanings , thou never heard a word of Christ. Ans. These are no differences ; for the Light of Christ and mans meanings are contrary : So for the one to say the Light doth open ; and the other to say mans meanings doth not open , this is not contrary ; So the confusion is turned again to the accuser , and doth not belong to these two Writers . So the ignorance of this Accuser is to be taken notice of , which would make people believe things that are not ; for if he write his Book for those that can neither read , see , nor hear , his labour is in vain ; and if he write it to those that can read , see , hear and understand , they will account it foolishness , especially in this day when the Light of life is broken forth among the children of men , to give them an understanding according to truth , for in this day he that keepeth silence is reputed wise ; and better is he that keepeth silence , then he that speaks , unless the spirit of the Lord give him utterance . Another Accusation is against W.D. he speaking to such a one as is guided by the Lamb , &c. saying , The Light in thy Conscience , the righteous Law , cryes through thy earthly heart , and brings it into judgement , &c. And then speaking of the parable of the little leaven hid in three measures of meal , that it changeth the whole lump into the nature of it self : So the little light that shines in thy dark heart , is the powerful Word of Faith , and that the Light is the sure Word of Prophesie , whereunto ye do well to take heed , until the day dawn , and the day-star arise in your hearts . And for these things he is accused . Ans. Those that are guided by the Lamb , do witness that the Light , the righteous Law , cryes through the earthly heart , and brings it into judgement , and will not accuse one for saying so . And as for speaking of the little light , as Christ spoke of the little Leaven , was it no offence in the dayes of the son of man to preach that the Kingdom of Heaven was like unto a grain of Mustard-seed , or like unto a little leaven ? And is it an offence now to preach the word of Faith to be as a little light , or to preach the annointing to be as a little light , in those in whom the light is little , doth this also offend you ? What then if we should say , That Christ is the light of life , the son of righteousness , & the glory and express figure of the Fathers substance in some , and but as a little light , or day-star in others , or in others as a light before the day-star arise in their hearts ? Is not the light great in some , & little in others ? And is not Christ the same ? May that only be called Christ which takes away the sins ? And may not that also be called Christ which pierceth through the soul , & revealeth the thoughts of many hearts ? Luke 2.35 . May he only be called Christ unto whom the Father hath given the Heathen for his inheritance , and the utmost parts of the earth , for his possession ? who reigneth , and hath , all his enemies under his feets , & is not he the same as he is descended into the lower parts of the earth , & which took upon him the form of a servant ? So therefore that none may err in their judgments concerning the testimony which is given of Christ , & of his light , his light is more or less according to his manifestation in every one , there being given to every one a manifestation of the spirit to profit withal , & every one is to be turned to the measure of their manifestation , to know & witness Christ in it ; though in many it be but as a little light , yet they are to be turned unto it , while it is so , which as it doth encrease , & is enlarged , it may be called , or declared under another name than little , as the Kingdom of Heaven is not alwayes like unto a grain of mustard-seed , nor as a little leaven but comes to rule in the children of men : And whereas the Accuser replieth against the light , and against Christ to be the word of Faith ; saying , Christ is called the Word of God , Rev. 19.13 . but not the Word of Faith ; and yet saith in page 45. That Christ 〈◊〉 the Author and finisher of Faith. Answ. If Christ be the Word of God , and faith come by Hearing , and Hearing by the Word of God , then how is it that he is not the word of Faith , being that word by which Faith comes when it is heard ? and he being the Author of it , may he not then as well be called the Word of it , as the Author of it , seeing he is the Word by which it comes ? but that all may understand what this word of faith was which the Apostle preached . This was Christ , Rom. 10. and they preached no other Word to be the Word of faith but Christ , That whosoever believed on him should not be ashamed : So that if the ignorance of Christ and of the Apostles words , were blotted out of the hearts of our Accusers , they would be silent , and the daily reproach would cease . And whereas it is affirmed by us , That the Light , or a measure of Christ within , is a sure word of prophesie , or a more sure word of prophesie , as Peter saith , 2 Pet. 1 , 19. And whereas many are offended at this , and labours to make people believe that this is the Writings of the Prophets which is the more sure Word of Prophesie the Apostle speaks of because he saith , Knowing this first , that no prophesie of the Scriptures is of any private interpretation ; for the prophesie came not in old time by the will of man , but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost , &c. Answ. Now I shall make it appear that it was not the Writings of the Prophets which was that more sure Word ; as first concerning that , here is one thing held out to be a sure Word , and another thing held out to be more sure , as unto tho●e to whom it was spoken : And as concerning the first : That wh●ch is held out to be a sure Word , is that which came from the Father , the voice which came from the excellent Glory , saying , This is my beloved Son , in whom I am well pleased ; and this voice which came from heaven the Disciples h●ard when they were with him in the holy Mount. This was a sure Word when it was spoken , and when it was written , it was a sure testimony , as sure as any of the Prophets Writings ; for the Prophets did see that he was to come , and he that was to come was the well beloved Son of the Father , and they wrote this down , and it was a sure testimony of Christ ; and Peter and the rest saw that he was come , and did hear the voice from the excellent glory proclaiming him 〈◊〉 be the Son of God ; and when they had seen it , they wrote it down ; and this was a sure testimony , yea a surer then the Prophets ; and that which the Apostles were eye-witnesses of , and did write down for truth , was as much to be taken heed unto as that which the Prophets declared ; and this will all men of understanding judge , that the Apostle Peter did not direct the people to the Prophets words , to take heed to them because they were more sure then his own , and more to be believed . But although the Apostles words and writings were confirmed with more power and witness of the Spirit then the Prophets , and both true , yet the Apostles Ministry unto those which did not see those things which the Prophets saw , much less those things the Apostles saw ; no , not so far as the dawning of the day , nor to the day-●●ar risen in their hearts ; therefore Peter dividing the Word of God aright , saith unto them , We have a more sure word of prophesie , whereunto ye do well that ye take heed , as unto a light that shineth in a dark place , untill the day dawn , and the day-star arise in your hearts , 2 Pet. 1.19 . It was more sure for them to take heed unto that which was as a light shining in a dark place , till the day-star did arise , and the day dawn in their hearts ; then the declaration from others without them , declared in words and writings ; as thus for example , by experience ; to su●h I shall direct my speech , who cannot witness the day dawned , nor the day-star risen in their hearts , nor hath heard the voice from the excellent Glory ; to such I say , That which I have seen and heard , the visions , power , and glory , wherein I am an eye-witness of his glory , and of his appearance , this I may declare and write unto you , and you may believe it ; But to such I say , It is more sure for them to take heed to the light that shines in the dark place , till they come to witness in themselves the day dawned , and day-star risen , and the Son of God made manifest in them , then to take heed to the words which I have declared , though it be a true testimony ; for the Apostle did not write to himself , nor say that it was more sure unto him , but unto them unto whom he wrote his Epistle ; for unto him no Word of prophesie was more sure then that which he had seen and heard when he was with Christ in the holy Mount. So this may inform your understandings who may have more desire to know the truth , then to oppose it , and may put to silence the vain disputings by men of corrupt minds , who are destitute of the truth , always corrupting the words of truth to oppose the life of it , as many such there are in these days , which the Lord hath , and will rebuke sharply , that they may be ashamed ; but all vvho are led and guided by the light of Christ shall knovv the anointing in them , and the vvord of faith , yea the Son of God : He that can receive it vvithout offence , let him . 5. Object . But he that hath opposed us , saith in pag. 25. of his Book , in the second part , That the dawning of the day is rather an evening then a morning . Answ. Novv let all vvhich have but knovvn a day and a night in the Creation , judge , whether the evening or the morning be the dawning of the day ; or , whether the day-star be a fore-runner of the day , or of the night , then it will not be incredible which I have said before , that he calls darkness light , and light darknest ; but in such things our opposers will not receive a good report from those which can give true judgment , and to such it is left to judge of those things . Obj. Again he saith in page . 35. That the spirit of truth was not a Comforter to the Apostles , nor a reprover to the world before Christ was ascended ; and yet himself , to contradict himself , saith , that he was in them before , and dwelt in them , the same spirit , but not in the same measure . Ans. Here is Babylon at the height , fit to be pul'd down , but needs little answering , seeing that it answereth it self ; and for such reasons as these he might well conceal his name : And if he could have put this off by hiding his Name , for an Hosanna to the Son of Daiud , or A Testimony to the Lords Christ , then he might well have baosted , & have gloryed in his shame , as if there had been no spirit of discerning in those he calls Quakers , nor others ; but the eye of truth is not yet so blind , but we know an evening from a morning , a night from a day , and a lye from truth ; and we know also that the disciples had a measure of the spirit of truth while he was with them upon earth , and this spirit did both comfort them , and did carry them on in obedience to his will , and in the power of this spirit went forth into the world , and reproved the world of sin because they did not believe in Christ ; and the devils was subject unto them by the spirit of truth that was in them , before Christ ascended ; and to this there is a Cloud of witnesses : So that this from him , filling his Book with such things as these , is as if a man should fill a Barn with Chaff instead of Corn , and deceive others with selling it for Corn. Another contradiction of the same nature , is this , That the manifestation of the spirit is given ( to no man for himself , bu● ) to every man to profit withal , to edifie , and build up , and do service in the body , as an hand , foot or eye , or some other member of the body &c. and to contradict this , in the next words he saith , Not that the spirit , or the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man ( i e. ) to every individual person forasmuch as some men are sensual , having not the spirit , therefore no manefestation thereof , pag , 17. Ans. This is like the former , and so to be cast out with it ; for his distinction of words between every man , and every individual person , will not cover him ; for where the Scripture saith every man without distinction , that is , every individual man and women : And the Apostle saith , But the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withall ; he doth not say , not to every individuall person : And this also I say , and affirm , That to every man is given a manifestation of the spirit to profi● withal , and he that profits with it , by it shall be justified ; and he that doth not profit with it , by it shal be condemned , because he is an unprofitable servant ; & this truth shal stand when all confusion shal have an end , yet some are sensual , having not the spirit . Obj. Again in despising the testimony from the m●asure of the gift of the spirit of God , when they have spoken according to the measure , and could not boast themselves above their measure : but in their measure witnessing the work of God as it was fulfilled in them , such he scornfully reproacheth , saying , What means those cracks and crannes in their knowedge , knowing but in part ? there is no pieces , nor parts , nor measures , nor degrees in absolute perfection ; whosoever saith he knoweth perfectly , he knows not how perfect his knowledge is ; and the first of those is called a vain man , boasting of that which is not , and of a false gift , and is like clouds , and wind without rain . Ans. Herein is Pauls Doctrine ( as well as ours ) declared against , to be but as cracks and cr●nnes , and a vain boasting of a false gift ; for Paul saith , We dare not make our selves of the number , or compare our selves with some that commend themselves , but they measuring themselves by themselves , and comparing themselves with themselves , are not wise : But we will not boast of things without our measure , but according to the Measure of the Rule which God hath distributed unto us , a measure to teach even unto you ; for we stretch not our selves beyond our measure , not boasting of things without our measure , that is of other mens labours . Now this measure of which he thus spoke , was in Christ , so in perfection ; and there is parts and degrees in Christ , and so in absolute perfection ; so far as every man is in the measure of the gift of God , so far he is in Christ , & so far his knowledge is perfect , and abiding in this he abideth in that which is perfect , and as he glori●yes in this , he glorys in a true gift , and none shall make this glorying void . Obj. And whereas John Jackson saith of those that say they have but attained in measure , he calleth that the bleating of the sheep , and the lowing of the Oxen , which declares plainly that they are not at home , they are not in the City , but have certain miles to travel before they arrive . Answ. This is a false interpretation , as I shall leave it unto all of understanding to judge ; for the bleating of the Sheep and the lowing of the Oxen , d●d signifie Sauls disob●dience unto the commandment of God , for which the Lord did reject him . But when Paul said he knew in part , and prophesied in part , and would not boast above his measure , this did not sign●fie his disobedience to the Lord , but contrariwise his obedience , and that he wa● in Christ Jesus : so this was not as the bleating of the Sheep , or the lowing of the Oxen , neither did it shew that they were not in the City ; for Paul testifieth of the holy brethren which he was a Minister unto , That they were come unto Mount Sion , and unto the City of the living God , the heavenly Jerusalem , and to an innumerable company of Angels , to the general Assembly , and Church of the first-born , wh●ch are written in heaven ; and to God the Judge of all , and to the spirits of just men made perfect , and to Jesus the Mediator of the new Covenant , and to the blood of sprinkling . Now let him that hath thus accused , shew how many miles these had to travel before they came to the City ; and whether there was any parts , measures , or degrees in these ; or whether there was absolute perfection without any measure of degrees of it ? and whether Paul was not come so far as these , unto whom he preached wisdom , even among those that were perfect ? and might he not in that estate say that he would not stretch himself beyond his measure ? But this I say , none are true witnesses of perfection but those who know their measure and abide in it : and likewise those that call the witnessing of the truth in a measure of the Spirit , the bleating of the Sheep , or the lowing of the Oxen , such never knew perfection , neither yet presseth after it , but would keep all others from it by despiteful terms against the measure of the spirit which leadeth unto it : But the day is come , and the light is risen , which hath found out and discovered all the cunning craftiness of men , in wh●ch they go about to deceive the hearts of the simple , and beguile unstable souls ; but the elect seed is risen which i● is impossible to deceive ; for it is not the Scripture words which men may take and speak in the hypocrisie , which can darken our knowledge , nor any way hinder the testimony of truth in those which have received it in the power of God ; only with such things the blind may lead the blind , and with such things they may strive to keep others out of the kingdom which have not tasted of the good word of God , neither are brought to know a measure of God in themselves , whereunto to be obedient ; but I see the Lord is opening a way for such to come out of the pits which they have been led into , in opening their eys and letting them see that their Watchmen are blind , and that understanding is departed from them , even from their Leaders , and the counsels of God is dep●rted even from the ancient , and the people are even like to perish for want of vision , because they have not seen for themselves , but their Teachers have seen for them vain visions , and lying divinations , and prophesied lyes , causing the ignorant to believe them ; but the Lords hand is stretched out against such , and is stretched out to gather his own seed from such , to bring them into the fear of the Lord , which is the beginning of wisdom , and into the knowledge of the holy , whithis understanding , Prov. 9.10 which understan●ing is a Well sprin● of life . Another seeming strength risen up against us , is the conceit of the discovery of a Schism in the body , as if the Band or Girdle which bound up the body were broken , and as if there were now a character brought forth amongst us , shewing a variety of persons , doctrines and practises , and as if the testimony of our being of the body of Christ , from the unity in the body were ceased , and as if the Heads were divided ; and as for proof , instances G.F. to J.N. J.N. to G.F. J.B. to J.N. and as if it were not person , but party , which some wonder at , admiring and waiting to see the Lords counsel and pleasure in it . Answ. All those that wait to see the Lords counsel and pleasure , and his wisdom in this thing , shall see it and be satisfied , and it vvill for the time to come be more for the confounding of those that vvatch for iniquity , then any vvay for confirming them in iniquity ; and by that vvhich God hath done , and is doing , shall the Girdle and Band of our love be made stronger , and in this shall the sight of our enemies fail , and become blindness ; for their thoughts is not as Gods thoughts in these things , neither their eye as his eye , for he saw a better thing for us in these things then they have imagined ; for that vvhich they thought vvrought for evil , hath wrought together for good unto those that stand in Gods counsel , who alwayes waits to see those works which stands in his wisdom● contrary to mans reason ; for that which they thought did break , that hath bound ; and that which they thought did separate , that hath united together ; so that there is not a difference nor dividing of Heads , not in persons , nor in parties , nor in doctrines , not in practices , but the same unity in the body , in the faith , in the seed , in the covenant , in one heart , and one soul , one way and worship of God in the Spirit is now as much , or more then ever before witnessed ; so that God hath cut off occasion from those that seek occasion & hath taken away the corner-stone that the wicked thought to build upon ; and hereby hath God tryed ▪ and discovered , and brought to light that which lay in the bottom of the deepest pits ; for God hath brought in this his day , many things forth , to try & prove those who said they were his people ; and those that a few dayes since seemed to be like Lambs , do now manifest themselves to be in the nature of Lyons , and ravening Wolves ; and those that pre-end to wait for the coming of Christ in power , and had the Name of Seekers , they are now found to reject his coming , and to be such as watch for iniquity in those among whom Christ is come ; & now they are turned backward , and now drink up that which they had vomi●ed up ; for now if they could but finde any iniquity among such as God hath made known the glory of his power among ; or if they can but suppose or imagine any such thing from false conceptions & conclusions , this would be a sufficient ground to them to print a Book upon and publish it abroad , and but that the Lord hath been on our sides , well may we say , when all sorts of men and religions hath risen up against us , by their violence had we been consumed ; for the powers of darkness , and all the divers worships of the Beast , are now more joyned together then ever , and the deepest subtilty of the Serpent is now at work in his members , to devise wayes , and change the Laws and times , whereby the spirit might be quenched which God hath raised up in his children , whereby a mighty cry is gone forth through the Nations against the Mystery of iniquity , where it worketh , both in the root and the branches of it ; and now is the burden of the Beasts of the South felt as truly as in the Prophets dayes , Isa. 30.6 from whence cometh the young and old Lyon , the Viper , and fiery flying Serpent , and now doth the mighty and terrible cry of the spirit of the Lord go forth to the men of this generation , as it went forth before time to the Egyptians , concernig this which the Lord hath wrought , ( your strength is to stand still ) and if this counsel of the Lord be by you received , you shall know more of the ways and workings of the Lord with his children , and that all things which the Lord hath done is for the furtherance of the Gospel , and that those which are approved may be made manifest ; what a strong ground of occasion would the envious one have thought he had , if he had come among the babes in Christ who were met together at Corinth , hearing Paul say that there was divisions among them , & said that there must be heresies among them , that they which are approved may be made manifest , 1 Cor. 11.19 . and this was no character that God had broken them without hands , nor that he had made their profession of unity of no force , but through this manifestation he did work schism out of the body , that so there should be no Schism , Rent , Heresie , nor any such thing in the body ; and this thing was not that the enemies of God might glory against the truth ; and if any labour to seek occasion against the holy Brethren , and say they are divided into Heads , because two eminent men of them withstood one another , as concerning eating with the Gentiles , viz. Paul and Peter ; to such I say , he that gathered at first into unity , is the healer and Repaired of such breaches ; and they may profess and witness as much unity after this as ever before . And these three which the envious one hath mentioned to be at difference in Doctrine and practice , viz. G.F. J.N. & J.B. the unity in the life and power of God in them , and in their Doctrine and practice shall stand for a witness , and for a condemnation against all the accusers : and now seeing that their occasion is taken away , their accusations may cease ; and if such Prophets be deceived , then let them consider who hath deceived them : I the Lord hath deceived that Prophet . Therefore what would such a Prophet think of the Apostles words when he saith , There must come a falling away first , that the man of sin may be revealed ? Would he , or could he judge this a charecter that the day of Christ were at hand : or that through such things the power of it should be made more manifest ; or that those among whom these things were wrought , should be thereby the more united ? To believe this will bring men even to their wits end , it being so contrary to their thoughts and conceivings , and this may well confound their vvisdome , and turn them backvvard , and bring them to question truth of all that vvhich ever they have vvritten , spoken , or acted against those vvhom the Lord hath manifested his povver and vvork among , contrary to their judgement and discerning ; for the vvays and vvorkings of the Lord is deep , and his secrets are vvith those that fear him , and not vvith those that despise his appearance , and speak evill of that they knovv not ; and the Lord vvill yet vvork greater things in the earth , that such may be confounded . And what wil such say , if the words of Daniel the Prophet be fulfilled in these dayes , saying ; And some of them of understanding shall fall to try them , and to purge , and to make them white , even to the time of the end , &c. Dan. 11.35 . Doth not God hereby try men , and try their spirits , and try their discernings ? should any in such cases judge before the time , the Lord will m●ke it manifest ; for this cause wil God bring such into judgement ; Therefore I say unto you , that your strength is to sit still , and let the Lord alone , and let his people alone , and let him work his own work in his own way , and presume not to be his counseller ; for who hath known the mind of the Lord ? let such as have , dwell in it , and preserve knowledge , so shall they always abide in strength , and power & Union with the Lord , and one with one another ; & men shall yet know for all that hath been , that we are his Disciples because we love one another ; and none shall make our glorying ▪ and rejoycing in the unity of the spirit , and in the love of God , void ; but it shall abound more and more to torment the spirit of enmity which would break it , or accuse us for professing of it ; but over that spirit we are in the Lord But what if some should rise up , ev●n fro● among our selves , speaking perverse things , and draw Disciples after them , and go out from us , as they did from among the Apostles , that it might be made manifest , that they were not all of us : Ought this to be laid to our charge ? Or , ought the way of God to be accused , because of such things , to be Heresie , or Schism ? If this seem to you an evident token of perdition and of error , yet to us of our Salvation , and that of God. And we are assured that we are of God , having the witness in our selves yet not bearing witness of our selves ; for there is one that beareth witness of us , even the Father which is in Heaven , and his witness is true , being unto us a seal of assurance . Therefore from henceforth this is a Warning to small and great , that they no further proceed in that which is both unnecessary and unseasonable : For this I say unto all such , that it is unnecessary and unseasonable , to seek to perswade us that the truth is error , or that the light which every man is enlightned withal , is the spirit of every man ; for that is not according to the record which God hath given of his son , nor which the Son hath given of the light ; but blessed be that day , and bl●ssed for ever be that po●er in which a seed is brought forth , unto which the Father hath given a true testimony ; in which they shall never be confounded which abide faithful ; for great is the mysterie of godliness , God manifest in the flesh ; and against this manifestation is the power of darkness risen up , and all the messengers and ministers of Satan , under all forms and professions , hath joyned themselves together to make their arm strong against the Son of righteousness ; his righteous life , and righteous wayes , which now he is bringing forth , among his children ; but out of the mouth of Babes , hath God ordained strength , against which all the powers of darkness cannot prevail ; and unto which strength all our enemies must bend , and bow ; and come for salvation ; For that which now the leaders of the people , have set themselves against , when they have finished their course , and the anguish comes over their souls , then will they confess , That it had been well if they had loved the light , and walked in it , which they have so long hated , and despised , with those that walk in it ; and all those which have exercised their strength , to shut others out of the Kingdom of God , by their Preaching , Printing , and false Accusations , they shall know that while they serve sin , they are free from righteousness , and do keep others from it ; But the time is coming , that their mouths must be stopped , and the Lord wil cause his everlasting righteousness to spread abroad , as broad Rivers , and streams , unquenchable , and nothing shall hinder it ; and this is the day in which the Lord will try those that dwel upon earth , as he hath tried many , and measured them with a true line , and hath found them deceitful , although they have made profession of his name , and of his words for a cloak for their iniquity ; But now the light is come into the world , and there remains no more cloak for their sins , nor hiding place for their iniquity . An Epistle concerning the sufferings of friends shewing the Priests wickedness and persecutions . GOD hath a great work to do in this generation , to pul down the abominations which hath long reigned , and many are straightned till it be accomplished ; and onely such must be exercised in this work who are called , chosen , and faithful ; and many have been called , but have not been faithful , but have destroyed in their works , that which they seemed to have established by words , and was not faithful to witness the fate of their words by their works ; so that by a true search we have fou●d the words of righteousness in many , but we have found the works of righteousness but in few ; and though God hath shined into the hearts of many by his light , yet there are but few children of it in comparison of the disobedient : The eye of God hath looked into the world , and he sees men differ more in words then in life and conversation ; and some in words do witnesse for God , but in their works deny him : As for example , How many of late years had a zeal stirred up in them by the spirit of the Lord against the abominations of the Priests , and the oppression of the tithes , preaching both down , even as that which denied Christ to be come in the flesh ? So that if words had been that which would have finished the work , the Land had been cleansed before this time of that abomination ; but the Lord hath brought a tryal upon such spirits , whether they will own their testimony through the spoiling of their Goods , and imprisonment of their bodys ; and therefore hath God suffered an earthly power , & a Law to try them , and now they do rather deny their Testimony , then suffer by that Law which gives the Priests tithes ; as for Witnesses , most of the baptized people in England have betrayed their testimony and profession in that thing : And how are you worthy to be called Saints which bear such a testimony ? can this equally be compared with the testimony of the Saints of old ? Did they cry down false worships and false teachers in words ? and did they uphold them by giving them wages ? Have you not herein sinned against light ? Did you not once see that they were never sent of God ? And will you now uphold them because you cannot suffer for your testimony ? Is not your paying them wages , & giving them tithes , a greater witness for them then your preaching them down in words is against them ? and may they not herein rejoyce over you ? Christ is not herein your example , which for this end was born , and for this end came into the world , to bear witness to the truth , and did finish the work which the Father had given him to do , and was made perfect through sufferings ; but such never need suffer who preach down deceit in words , and hold it up in workes . And the Apostles is not your example ; for they were in workes that which they declared in words : therefore hath God cast you by , as not fit to be Labourers in his Vineyard : But a people is the Lord raising up , whom he is giving his holy spirit unto , whose witness to him must stand as well in works as in words , who love the truth more then their lives or liberties , goods or estates , and are valiant for it upon the earth , which cannot be subject to the powers of darkness , nor the Rulers of the darkness of this world , but believeth that whatsoever they deny for Christ in this life , they shall receive a hundred fold , and in the world to come life everlasting . And these are they whom the Father will exercise with his holy spirit , in the gathering his seed from the ends of the earth , and for the turning of many to righteousness ; and such shall shine as the stars in the firmament of Heaven , when as the false and deceitfull witnesses shall be turned into darknesse because their testimony is not able to endure the tryal ; for the Lords house must be built with tried stones , that the winds of persecutions cannot blow it down : and upon such will his light arise , who when they are tried , are found faithfull , and who are counted worthy to bear a testimony in this work though it be through sufferings in this day , when the powers of the Earth have set themselves to wear out the Saints of the most High God by changing times and Laws , whereby to restrain the liberty of the Lords people whose worship stands in the spirit , and in the truth . Times they have changed by a Law in making the first day of the week to be their Sabbath , but that day is more prophaned then any of the seven . And Laws they have changed , to get a grou●● to stop the word of the Lord from having free course and 〈◊〉 utterance among ●he people . These seek to scatter the power of the holy people , and to 〈◊〉 the truth to the ground by their acts of cruelty , and de●rees 〈◊〉 unrighteousness , and by a tolerating cruelty and or pression ●mong a company of Priests which are worse then those in Hosea'● dayes , who then were , As a Troop of Robbers that wait for a man , eve● so the company of Priests murther in the way by consent , Hos. 6.9 . and saith the Prophet , I have seen a horrible thing in the house of Israel ; but now we may say , We have seen a more horrible thing in the Land of England , even a company of Priests taking mens horses from their work , their Corn off their field , driving away their Oxen and Kine out of their Pasture , taking their wool out of their Barns , taking away their Brasse and Pewter out of their Houses , taking away their Bedding off their Beds , even off their childrens Beds : Such a horrible thing was never seen in Israel ; for the Priests Robbery was not so great then , as now ; for they did never so spoile mens goods nor destroy mens Estates , nor imprison mens bodies , as now in England the Priests , have done ; so that they do not only exceed the false prophets of Israel ; but also all the Robbers both in Israel and in England , hath not spoiled so much Goods and Cattel as they have done within these five years ; some without any Law , or pretence of Law ; and others with false oaths and false witnesses , and the Law not permitting a man to give in a true witnesse except he will swear , contrary to Christs command , who saith , Swear not at all : which swearing is as great a sin as bearring of a false witnesse . And by the●e things do they seek to wear out the Saints of the Most High God , first taking away a mans Goods , and then casting him into prison ; as Christ said to the Saints , so is it come to pass in these dayes also amongst us , The Devil shall oast some of you into prison , and you shall have tribulation ten dayes : If the Devil now , or his Ministers or Messengers of Satan , be permitted to cust some into prison , or bring tribulation upon others , do they therefore think that we will yeild to the devil , or to his Messengers that we may be free from tribulation and imprisonment ? Nay that is not the price of our redemption nor way of deliverance ; ●or that which was written before-time , was written for our ●earning , which through suffering and patient continuing in wel doing we have learned , without which we could never have learned nor known Christ's words fulfilled as they are ; therefore happy i● that day wherein the everlasting love of God is broken forth unto us , in bringing us his children , prophets , and holy Apostles , to rejoice over the false Prophets , and false Teachers ; though they spoil our Goods , and imprison our bodies , yet we can rejoyce over them , and suffer the spo●ling of our Goods with joy , knowing that this is for a testimony against them , by which the reproach which the Lord will bring upon them , will appear to all men . And this is so far from silencing our testimony against them , that it doth daily renew it ; so that if all that which is past were forgotten , their daily abominations doth so increase , that a testimony must be continued against them ; for of them the Scripture is true , which saith , Evil men and deceivers wax worse and worse ; for the deceiver in former ages was never so bad , as by force to take away the goods of those that would not hear them , and take away their lives by imprisonment , as some have done , because they could not pay them tythes , as this Record of the unjust sufferings will make manifest . Our brethren the prophets h●ve given their testimony concerning such Prophets and Priests which was prophane , and that the Lord found folly amongst them , as Jeremiah saith , Jer. 23. he had seen a horrible thing amongst them , they strengthned the hand of evil-doers that none did return from their iniquity , and it is so now for these reasons . How can a drunkard return from his drunkenness , when he sees his priest drunk ? and how can a swearer return from his swearing when he sees his priest swear , and hire men to swear falsly , as many have done in this Nation ? And how can a covetous man return from his covetousness when he sees his priest so covetous that he taketh away mens goods by violence , which he hath no right unto , but only through covetousness makes merchandize of People ; So how should any return from such things who are taught by them ; and how can a proud man return from his pride , when he sees his teacher lead him into it by example ; How can an envious man turn from his envy , seeing his teacher envious , and provoking others to wrat● and envy ? So these Reasons prove that the Prophets words are true , that ●one can return from their iniquity by following the practise of thei● Priests ; and Christ's words are fulfilled also , Math 23. which saith , they lay heavy burthens upon people , grievious to be born , and devour Widowes Houses , as many in this Nation can wi●n●sse , who have their Goods spoild & taken from them , as this following Record makes mention , abounding all the cruelty and wickedness which ever was heard of , or read of , exceeding all the false prophets in Israel ; althoug they had a price , & preached for hire , yet they never did use such cruelty for their Hire as these have done ; and exceeding all the false teachers among the Gentiles , which never was known to sue any at the Law that would not hear them , much less to take from them seven times the value of what they demanded ; but the Lord doth for a time let his children deeply suffer , to fulfill the testimony of truth in this thing , that it may be recorded for ages to come , the faithfullness of their testimony , and the cruelty of their oppressors ; and then will the Lord finish the testimony of their sufferings , and will give them an inheritance among the Seed which he hath blessed ; and all their persecutors shall be ashamed ; for God will bring an everlasting reproach upon them , and a perpetual shame , which shall not be forgotten , Jer. 23. Richard Hubberthorne , A Call to the Ministry , according to the Scriptures , held forth in these few words following , contrary to that Call which is of man , and by man. To the Reader . IT being of the Lord so ordered , that a publike Dispute was appointed betwixt Thomas Dance Priest in Sandwich in Kent , and those called Quakers , which was upon the twelfth and thirteenth days of the second Month , in which many weighty things concerning Religion was discoursed of ; in which it was first proved by us according to the Scripture , That Christ Jesus the true Light , hath enlightened every one that cometh into the world , Joh. 1.9 . and Joh. 12. And another weighty matter concerning Religion discoursed upon , was the righteousness by which man is justified before God , which by us was witnessed and proved to be only by the righteousness that was in Christ Jesus , being also made manifest in us , the everlasting righteousness being brought in , according to Dan. 9.24 . Again upon the tenth day the discourse was , Whether the Scriptures were the Word of God : The answer was , That the Scriptures were Writings , and the Writings was not the Word , but the thing written of was the Word of God : Unto which the Priests also consented . Another thing was concerning the Call to the Ministry , whether theirs or ours was according to the Apostles , and according to the Scriptures ; the heads of both which Calls are declared as followeth , that all people may judge according to their measure of the gift of Christ , whether of them is according to Scripture-Testimony . THat by which the Apostles were called into the Work of the Ministry , having gifts differing according to the measure of the manifestation of Christ , by the same am I called , which is also according to the Scriptures , as Eph. 4. Unto every one of us is given Grace according to the measure of the gifts of Christ , by which gift according to the measure of it , were they made , some Apostles , some Prophets , some Evangelists , some Pastors and Teachers , &c. And this was by the power , virtue and operation of the gift of Christ in them ; and as then , so now ; for there is not another way to be called into the Ministry by , neither doth any profit the people at all , but they who minister from the power and moving of that gift which they have received from the Father by Jesus Christ ; by which gift was I called out of the World , and separated for the Work of the Gospel ; by which gift I saw that which had corrupted the earth , and by it was moved to minister against it ; which gift is that which hath the power in it both to convince and convert unto God , according as the Apostle Peter ( who was unlearned in the Letter ) vvas made a Minister by the gift of the Spirit of Christ , and saith , 1 Pet 4.10 . As every one hath received the gift , even so let him minister the same one to another , as good Stewards of the manifold grace of God ; And , if any man speak , let him speak as the Oracle of God ; and if any man minister , lee him do it as of the ability which God giveth , that God in all things may be glorified . So that that Ministry by which God is glorified , and people converted , is that which proceeds from the operation and power of his own gifts in them , which is that Ministry which perfecte●h the S●ints , edifies the body of Christ ; brings into the unity of the Faith , unto the knowledge of the Son of God , and unto a perfect man , and unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ. But they vvhich gather Scriptures together in their earthly Wisdom , and from that which they have gathered , minister unto others , this Ministry doth not perfect the Saints , nor edifie the body of Christ , nor bring to the unity of the Faith ( but into strife and divisions ) nor to the knowledge of the Son of God , but leads from his knowledge ; nor unto a perfect man ; but pleads against perfection ; nor unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ ; no , not unto the measure of the least Saint ; so that Ministry is to be ceased from , vvhich proceeds not from the measure of the Father's gift ; and that onely continued unto the end of the World , vvhich his gift calleth into , and carryeth on in . So I by the measure of his free Spirit , being called and made a Minister of it unto others ( not of the letter , but of the spirit ) in which in all ages the true Ministry stood ; having not received it of man , neither was I taught it but by the revelation and manifestation of the life of Christ in me . Which Spirit in me according to its measure , is as true and as infallible as it was in them which by it were made Apostles , Evangelists , Prophets and Teachers formerly , being the same in power , virtue and operation as it was , as able to reveal and make manifest , to teach , edifie and perfect as it was , and to beget people out of the World into the Covenant of Light and Life ; and all who are Ministers of Christ for the gathering of his seed from the ends of the Earth , into the Kingdom of his dear Son , must from the same Spirit witness their call and separation to that Work ; and all other calls are false , and their Ministry profits not , which doth not singly proceed from the measure of that gift ; but all who do abide in the measure of his gift , and from it minister , by it they are manifest to be of God ; and in that Ministry they commend themselves unto every mans Conscience in the sight of God ; and this is the calling and Ministry , in which as every one abides , they glorifie God. And this is the Ministry of reconciliat●on which was committed unto the Apostles , and is unto his Ministers now ; by the power of which , the Devil's Work comes to be destroyed , and then all things reconciled in one , things in heaven , and things in earth : But that Ministry which is received from man , and taught by man , never reconciles any thing unto God , but doth separate from God , and beget into enmity ; but that which proceeds from the measure of the gift of God , brings every one to know the truth in their own particular ; which Truth as they abide in it , sets them free from sin ; and this Ministry hath the power in it , in all them that have received it , to save them that preach it , and them that hear it , and obey it ; & no other Ministry doth profit the people at all , but that which from the gift of God is ministred ; so that this call and Ministry here declared , is one with , and according to the Apostles and the Scriptures . The Heads of Priest Dance his professed Call to the Ministry , as followeth . Pr. If I should speak non-sence ( as others do ) then I might say , that I am made a Minister by the measure of the gift of Grace , and then I should be accounted a Minister as well as they , &c. But I do not pretend to any infallibility in my Ministry , but as these Acts 6 : 6. which when the Apostles had prayed , laid their hands upon them , although ( saith he ) that laying on of hands is not of such necessity , but that a man may be a Minister without it ; and as Timothy , although he had some extraordinary gifts , yet he was not infallible , 1 Tim. 4.14 . and ( saith he ) I desire the Office of a Bishop , which he that desireth , desireth a good work , according to 1 Tim. 3.1 . And as for his Qualifications , they are such as whereby he might have advantaged himself more abundantly in the world as to outward means , nnd might have been cloathed in S●a●let , &c. but did rather chuse and incline himself to be a Minister of the Gospel ; and that the outward means was not his end in chusing to be a Minister ; but if that he could be satisfied , or see that there did not want labourers in the Lords work , he could freely leave off , &c. And further he said , That God had made his preaching effectual for the converting of many , and that there were many , though not in that place , yet some in that place , of whom he could say as the Apostles said , That they were the seal of his Ministry , &c. These being the heads of the particulars . Objections against this Call. WHereas thou sayest , That it is non-sence to say that a man is made a Minister by the gift of grace ; Ans. Then the Apostles spake non-sence when they witnessed forth their call to the Ministry ; for to every one of them was given Grace , according to the measure of the gift of Christ , from which Grace they did minister , Eph. 4. But the Apostles spoke sensible truth ; therefore he that contradicts it , speaks non-sence and ignorance , as will further appear in saying that he pretends unto no infallibility in his Ministry . Ans. Then he pretends to nothing of the Spirit of God , much less to be a Minister of the Spirit , as Paul was , 2 Cor. 3.6 . For every measure of the Spirit is infallible , or undeceivable ; bu● that which is fallible is deceivable ; and whosoever is taught by that Spirit , is deceived ; and Thomas Dance pretends to have no other Spirit but that which is deceivable and fallible ; so that it is time to turn away from such . Again , he chargeth Timothy that he was not infallible ; which is a false charge : For wherein was he fallible or deceivable ? but he was so infallible , that he not neglecting the gift of God that was in him , he by it was able to save himself and those that heard him , 1 Tim. 4 16. And he ministred from the gift of God in him , which he had received by prophesie , and so not from a fallible spirit , but from the infallible ; and so he is accused falsly by T. Dance . Again , Tho. Dance saith , That he desireth the Office of a Bishop , &c. Ans. But consider what such a one must be ( which is ) blameless , vigilant , sober , not rude and scornful , but of good behaviour , apt to teach , not apt to laugh and jeer , and cause the people to be light and vain ; he must not be given to wine , no striker , not greedy of filthy lucre , but patient , not a br●wler , not covetous ( as it doth appear those Priests are guilty of , which have nothing to preach from but the infallible spirit , vvhich doth always deceive people ) but one that ruleth his own house well , having his children in subjection with all gravity ; for if a man know not how to rule his own house wel , how shall he take care of the Church of God ? but it is manifest that Tho. Dance ruled not his own Church or people well , but rather provoked them to wantonness , rudeness and laughter , which is madness : Not a Novice , lest being lifted up with pride , he fall into the condemnation of the Devil : But T. D. was so lifted up in the pride of his heart , that he gave two meanings to one place of Scripture , and so falls into the condemnation of the Devil . Pr. And whereas Thomas Dance saith , That his q●●●ification is such , that he might have been cloathed in scarlet , &c. Ans. What mightest thou have been , a Lawyer or Doctor , as one of thy Brethren said ? Which if thou hadst , by that the Nation is deceived , though not in so high a measure as by professing the Ministry ; but that is taken up as the most profitable Trade to get means and live in pride : What if thou hadst been cloathed in Scarlet , in Velvet , in Purple , or any other gorgeous apparel ? and in that apparel which thou art already cloathed with , wilt thou be condemned when thou comes to know any measure of the gift of the true Ministry to be thy guide . Pr. Again , whereas thou takest the people to be a seal of thy Ministry . Ans. All the people that were in place , and some more , may seal it to be fallible and deceivable , as thou hast confessed it to be ; but there is not one that can set to their seal that it hath brought them to a perfect man , nor to the knolwedge of the Son of God , nor to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ ; and so it hath not effected any of the Work of the true Ministry ; but when thou comes to be searched narrowly , filthy lucre wil be found to be the end for which thou Ministrest , without which thou wouldst be silent . And now further to manifest that , that he pretends not to any thing of the infallible Spirit in his Ministry , these his principles or doctrines declare as followeth , with the answer of truth to them . Pr. That every individual man was not enlightened by Christ. Ans. Which doctrine is contrary to John 1.9 . which saith , that was the true Light which enlighteneth every one that cometh into the world ; and to pervert the Scripture , he gave two meanings , that the people might take whether they would , so that they would but deny the form of sound words , and the plain Scripture : The first was this , That Christ enlightened every man that is enlightened . Or else , Secondly , That he enlighteneth some in every Nation . Now let people consider how that this can be the meaning of the Holy Ghost , as he said it was , seeing that here is two meanings , and it is either the one or the other , but he knows not which ; which doth plainly manifest that he hath not the mind of the Spirit , which is but one , and speaks as it means ; but the Scriptures cannot be broken by such meanings , which saith , th●●●very man is enlightened with the true Light. Pr. That the whole body of the Gentiles was not enlightened . Ans. Then by what shall those Gentiles be condemned who are not enlightened , seeing that Christ was given for a Light to the Gentiles , as the Prophet Isaiah saith ? But he doth not say , to some of the Gentiles , and not to the whole body ; and though the Gentiles were once darkness , Eph. 5. yet the Light shined in the darkness ; and the Apostle turned them unto that Light which shined in the darkness , that the eye which was blinded , might be opened : He did not come to give them eyes , but to open the blind eyes ; not to give them light , but to turn them to the Light that was in them , as Acts 26.10 . Pr. That the Gospel is an external Light , and not invisible ; and that it is not th● Light within . Ans. Which is contrary to the Apostles doctrine , which saith the gospel is the power of God , Rom. 1. which is not external nor visible , but invisible , and shined in their hearts , 2 Cor. 4.6 . and it was hid unto those that were lost ; but that which was visible , they could see and hear with the visible eyes and ears ; but both the Gospel which is the power of God , and the eye that sees , are invisible . Pr. That Christ being the propitiation for the sins of the whole world , as John said , 1 John 2.2 . is meant onely the world of believers . Ans. In this he would break the Scriptures , and contradict the Apostle , which saith , He is the propitiation for our sins , and not for ours onely ( who were the believers ) but for the sins of the whole world ; Which whole World , John said lies in wickedness ; but the whole World of believers lies not in wickednesse , but is of God Pr. That they must reconcile the Scriptures . Ans. The Scriptures cannot be broken , John 10.35 . but is reconciled and at unity in themselves , and in all those that know them ; but he that gives two contrary meanings to one Scripture , he doth not go about to reconcile , but rather to pervert them , and to take away the plain testimony of truth ( which they give ) from peoples understandings ; but the key of knowledge is found again , which opens the Scriptures 〈…〉 mystery of them . And herein is the ignorance of ●eachers and people , in saying the Scriptures are not reconciled ; it is they that are not reconciled to God nor the Scriptures , and so they utter forth their blindnesse , ignorance and error . Pr. That the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ , was not the Law of the Spirit in the Saints , but that they were two Laws , &c. Ans. This is a false distinction ; for God ●ath said that he wil write his Law in their hearts , and put his Spirit in their inward parts ▪ And the same Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus , being in the Apostle's heart , had set him free from the Law of sin and death , Rom. 8.2 . So it was not two Laws , but one Law. Pr. That there are two righteousnesses of Christ , the one without the Saints , to justifie thom ; and the other within the Saints , that did sanctifie them . Ans. Christ's righteousness is but one , and that by which they were both sanctified and justified , was but one thing , even the Spirit of our God , 1 Cor. 6.11 . and Christ in them was Gods righteousness , and the hope of glory , who was made unto them righteousness , and if Christ was in them , then his righteousness was in them ; or else he and his righteousness is divided , as this Priests doctrine would make them . Pr. The said Priest denied that they were justified by that Christ that was in them , when he was questioned about it . Ans. If they were not justified by that Christ that was in them , then by another Christ , which is no less than to preach two Christ's ; and so he hath preached another Gospel than the Apostles preached , which whosoever doth , is accursed . Pr. That David when he was guilty of adultery and murther , was not in a condemned state , but in a justified state . Ans. Here he would make God a justifier of the wicked in his wickedness ; but in that state David was condemned of the Lord , and suffered his anger and terrors , when his iniquities went over his head , and were too heavy for him to bear ; and he was not justified until that through judgement he was redeem ●rom the guilt of murther and adultery , and other sins which 〈◊〉 over his head : So such Teachers as he who would have God account them just who are unjust , and them holy who are unholy and unrighteous , are as the false Prophec● , who put no difference between the holy and prophane , and spoke peace to the wicked , where there was no peace , counting them good who did evil ; saying , they that do evil are good in the sight of the Lord , Mal. 3.15 . as the Priests now say , though they be sinners , yet they are righteous in God's account ; so they would make God a lyar , accounting men to be that which they are not , and to be in Christ when they are in sin , in the Devil's Work. Pr. And concerning them in Heb. 12. who were come unto the spirits of just men made perfect , he said it was meant , that they were in Heavon , and not upon Earth . Ans. Thus by his false meanings he hath often perverted the Scriptures , calling his false meanings the meanings of the Holy Ghost ; but these mentioned in Heb. 12. were them the Apostle wrote unto upon earth ; for he did not write to men after they were deceased ; and these that he wrote unto , were come unto the innumerable company of Angels , and to the City of the living God , and to the spirits of just men made perfect . Pr. That any creature that holds that principle of being justified by a righteousness within , living and dying in that principle , cannot come to Heaven . Ans. Christ is the justifier of them that believe in him , and his Doctrine is , I in them , and they in me : So Christ and his righteousness is in the Saints , and God hath brought in the everlasting righteousness , which justifieth , which is not at a distance , separate from the Saints , as these false Teachers have imagined . And the Apostles Doctrine and Principle is Christ in you , which whosoever liveth and dyeth in this , comes to Heaven ; but on the contrary , whosoever hath not Christ and his righteousness in them , to justifie them , cannot come to Heaven . Pr. That , that which fitted men for the Inheritance ( among the Saints ) did not entitle to the inheritance , or not give them a part in the inheritance . Ans. This is contrary to the Apostles Doctrine ; for he thanks God the Father , who made them meet to be partakers of the inheritance with the Saints in Light , Col. 1.12 . for he both fitted them for the Inheritance , and did entitle and give them a part in the Inheritance , translating them into the Kingdom of his dear Son , ver . 13. Pr. That we cannot contain an infinite righteousness in us . Ans. Then you cannot contain the righteousness of God , for it is infinite and everlasting , as in Daniel 9.24 . and then you cannot contain Christ in you , who is God's righteousnesse , and who is infinite ; and so by this Doctrine he makes all reprobates , as all are who know not Christ in them ; for they who did not retain God in their knowledge , were given up to a reprobate sence . Pr. That it was false doctrine to say a man must first partake of the righteousness which justifies , before it can be imputed to him as his . Ans. He hath here counted that false doctrine which the Saints witnessed fulfilled in them ; for the righteousness of God was imputed to the Saints in the true belief , whereby they did partake of Gods righteousness through Faith , before it could be accounted theirs ; except that this Priest in his false meanings would count that to be a mans vvhich he hath no right to , nor part in ; for the faith wherein Abraham did partake of Gods righteousness , vvas reckoned to him for righteousness ; and he unto vvhom God imputeth righteousness , in his spirit there is no guile ; though these Priests vvould impute righteousnesse to the vvicked , as theirs , vvho are full of guile and sin , having no life , nor right in God's righteousness , vvhile they live quite out of it . Pr. That God offers salvation to all men , but he intends it but to a few . Ans. There he vvould frustrate the grace of God , and his salvation , vvhich is free for all ; and so he vvould make the offers of God's salvation to many thousands , to no purpose , as if God profered that to many vvhich he never intended to give them : Was there ever such a belying of God as this ? For vvhat is it less than to make God a respecter of persons ? If all men by nature be in wickedness , and liable to condemnation , as this priest confessed , and yet salvation is intended but for a fevv , ( though offered to all ) how is God no respecter of persons ? and how is Christ given to be his salvation to the ends of the earth , and a Light unto the world , that all men through him might believe ? and whosoever believeth in Christ , shall not perish , but have everlasting life ; so that all may freely come and be saved , according to the Love and Will of God , vvho doth not intend that any shall perish except they reject his vvay , and the offers of his grace , which hath appeared to all men . Pr. That a Minister of the gospel doth not know who are elected . Ans. There he hath belyed the Ministers of the gospel ; for they could discern the elect from the World , as it is written , Ye shall discern between him that serveth God , and him that serveth him not ; and Paul and Peter vvrote to the Elect : So these Teachers vvho knovv not the Elect , and yet exhort all their hearers to believe and lay hold on Christ , their preaching is in vain ; for if God hath but intended a certain number to be saved , and the rest to be condemned , then they set their Hearers on work in vain , and many to expect that vvhich they are never like to have : So these people are in a miserable state . And note , that these Priests though they take sums of money and tythes of their Hearers in many parishes in the Nation , yet they know not vvho are elected among them , according to this mans words . Pr. That the Sword of the Spirit is ineffectual without the Letter . Ans. The Svvord of the Spirit is the Word of God , vvhich vvas effectual before the Letter vvas , to Enoch , to Isaac , to Jacob , to Abraham , and others ; and from the Word vvas the Letter given forth , and the Letter is not effectual without it . Pr. That there was no Scripture written , but what is extaut , and in the Bible . Ans. Yes , against that shall the Scripture bear witness ; the Book of Nathan the prophet , the Book of Ahijah , the Book of Idd● , 2 Chron. 9.29 . the Book of Shemaia , 2 Chron. 20.15 . the Book of Gad , 1 Chron. 29.29 : the Book of Jehu , 2 Chron. 34. the Book of Jasher , 2 Sam. 1.18 . the prophesie of Enoch , Jude 2. one Epipistle of the Corinthians , 1 Cor. 5.9 . one Epistle to the Ephesians , Eph. 3.3 . one Epistle to the Laodiceans , Col. 4. All these Scriptures vvere given forth from the same spirit , and to the same end and use as those are which are bound up in the Scriptures , although these be left out . Pr. That there was no Scripture ●or Writings appointed of God to be a Rule of Faith and Manners , but what is bound up in the Bible . Ans. Those Scriptures which are not bound up in the Bible , were given forth from the same spirit , and by the motion of the Holy Ghost , and so for the same ends and uses that the other Scripture was given forth for ; and as he appointed the one , so the other . Pr. That the Letter doth antecede and go before the spirit in all that walk in the spirit . Ans. This is false , for the spirit did antecede the Letter in all that walked in the spirit , who gave forth the Letter from the spirit . Pr. That the works of Christ in some respect are not perfect . Ans. That is false , for every gift of God is perfect ; and every work of Christ is perfect in all his children ; but that spirit in thee which is fallible , makes nothing perfect , and therefore judgeth all things , yea Christ and his Works to be fallible and deceivable , like it self . Pr. That the Law requires more strict and exact obedience than the Gospel . Ans. Nay ; The Law saith , Thou shalt not commit adultery ; but the Gospel saith , Thou shalt not lust : The Law saith , Thou shalt not kill ; but the Gospel saith , Thou shalt not be angry . The Law saith ; Thou shalt not forswear thy self ; but the Gospel saith , Swear not at all , Matth. 5. And so the Gospel requires more exact obedience then the Law , contrary to this affirmation . Pr. That God chose a Devil to be one of his Ministers , in chusing Judas ; and his proof for it is this , That the Divine Natu●e did not see it good to communicate the knowledge of all things unto the humane nature ; and therefore though he was a Devil when he chose him , yet he knew it not . Ans. This is a charging of Christ with ignorance , contrary unto John 2.24.25 . which saith , That Jesus did not commit himself unto them , because he knew all men , and needed not that any should testifie of man , for he knew what was in man : And though Judas by transgression became a Devil , and the Devil abode not in the Truth , doth it therefore follow that he was never in the truth ? But Christ speaks of him , and to him , as well as to the rest , that they had power to cast out unclean spirits , Matth. 10.1 . and that the Spirit of the Father spoke in them , Matth. 10.20 . So that there was no difference while the Spirit of the Father led him and taught , till the Devil entered into his heart to betray that Lord of Life . So that is a false charge to say , That Christ sent out a Devil to minister the Gospel . Pr. That the Spirit of God may accompany a Ministry , and the Minister not have the Spirit . Ans. This is another Doctrine than ever the Prophets or Apostles preached ; for I never read in the Scripture , that ever any did minister for God , which had not the Spirit , or that ever any was converted unto God by such a Minister as had not the Spirit : Therefore prove this assertion to the people , where , or when the Spirit of God did accompany that Ministry , when the Minister had not the Spirit ; so that thou m●ist as well , as thou hast said , not pretend unto any infallibility ( nor unto any truth in thy ministry ) for if thou didst , people would see that thou didst pretend unto that which thou art far from : So that if thou wouldst not pretend to minister neither , no more than to have the Spirit , it were better for thee . Pr. That the power that went forth in the Apostles Ministry , was in God , and not in them ; but as they have it communicated to them by the exercise of Faith. Ans. Here thou hast confounded thy self ; for if they had it communicated to them by their exercise of Faith , then it was in them ; for the exercise of Faith is within , in the pure Conscience ; and so the power was in them , from which they ministred , and they did not abuse their power , but from the power ministred forth their gift as they had received it . Thomas Ramsay said , That we preach a Doctrine of Devils , in saying that men may be free from sin in this life . Ans. Then the Apostle Paul preached a Doctrine of Devils : For he said , Rom. 6 2. How shall we that are dead to sin , live any longer therein ? And in the 7 th . verse saith , He that is dead , is free from sin . And in the 18 th verse he saith to the Believers , being then made free from sin , Ye became the servants of righteousness ; & in ver . 22. he again tells them , That now being made free from sin , and become servants to God , you have your fruits unto holiness , and the end everlasting life : And this was spoken to the Romans while they were in this life , and it was not a Doctrine of Devils , but the Doctrine of the Gospel ; and Christ preached the Doctrine of perfection in this life , Matth. 5.48 . saying , Be ye perfect as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect ; and also it is written , Be ye holy , for I am holy , 1 Pet. 1.16 . And this is not a doctrine of Devils , but of Christ the Son of God ; and Paul preached Wisdom among those that were perfect ; 1 Cor. 2 6. and David preached the Doctrine of perfection in this life , saying , Mark the perfect man , and behold the upright , for the end of that man is peace , Psal. 37.37 . Now David did not bid them mark such a man as there was not : So the Doctrine of perfection is that Doctrine which both the Prophets , Christ and Apostles preached , and so not the Doctrine of Devils , if we preach the same ; but all those that preach up sin , and that men must live in it , and that they cannot be free from it while upon earth , these are Messengers of Satan , and preach the Doctrine of Devils , and people need not that doctrine ; for they are willing enough to live in sin , without having it preached up , and being strengthened in it ; and that makes them so willing to pay the Priests such Wages , for calling the proud happy ; and those that work wickedness , Saints and justified persons ; for without such Wages not a priest in England would preach peace to them in their sins , but they would all be silent ; for if people come once to know Christ their Teacher , and he in them the hope of glory , who saves his people from their sins , then no man wil buy their merchandize any more , but wil come all to hear and learn of the Father , and come to witness his Covenant and his Teachings , and shall not need that one teach another , saying , Know the Lord , for all shall know him from the least to the greatest , Heb. 8.11 . And this shall all come to witness that come to be translated into the Kingdom of the dear Son of God ; and then shall they come to witness his Words who is the Lord from Heaven , who saith , Be ye perfect as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect ; and be ye holy , for I am holy . And this is the voice from Heaven . The real Cause of the Nations Bondage and Slavery , here demonstrated ; and the way of their freedom from their sore and hard Bondage , asserted . Presented unto the Parliament of the Common-wealth of England , who have a Power and Opportunity put into their hands to do good ( and to fulfil the expected ends of many ) if they improve it . From one that hath seen the corruption which bondageth the whole Creation , and that waits for the redemption of the creature from under it . R. H. I will restore thy Judges as at the first , and thy Counsellors as at the beginning ; afterwards thou shalt be called the City of Righteousness , the faithful City , Isa. 1.26 . ( Not before . ) When this is fulfilled in England , it shall be truly called a free Nation or Commonwealth . ( Not before . ) THere hath been a time when the prudent hath kept silence ; but now Wisdom hath opened her mouth , and will be justified of all her children ; for the Lord is reviving the spirit that hath been imprisoned , and taking the yoke from off the Disciples necks , and is going on in the Name of his Power to make his creature a free creature , and his people a free people , and the Nation that serves him , and obeys his Law , a free Nation ; and the thunderings of his power is gone forth , and his Light is risen to discover and destroy that which hath deceived the Nations , and to give a discerning unto all , of their freedom from their bondage , and in what it stands ; and that is to be cast out which gendereth to the bondage of the Soul , Spirit or Conscience , in any exercise of Worship or obedience unto God , which springs from the measure of his own life , which must not be hindered or quenched by any Law , Power or pretence whatsoever . Therefore from the free Spirit of Life and Liberty in Christ Jesus , this is proclaim●● to the whole Nation , and the Nations round about , to take off their bondage , and to take away their reproach , which hath lain upon them for want of the life of Christ , which is now risen to do its own work , and perfect its own praise , and to deliver its own Seed , wheresoever it hath been in captivity ; the power of life must deliver it from all that which causeth shame and reproach , which is the iniquity and transgression of the Life of Christ , which is the original cause of bondage to every Nation , which the Lord hath promised to take away in one day , Zac. 3 9. And his Work and Power shall be known by its fruit , which is to take away the●r sin , Isa. 27.9 . One great yoke of bondage which is upon the Subject● and Seed of God in this Nation and others , is that Ministry which is not free , neither wil minister without money , and the people are not free to hear them ; yet a yoke of bondage is laid upon them to pay them ; and this iniquity is established by a Law : So here is neither free preaching , nor free hearing , unto which the free Spirit raised up in this Nation , declareth thus : That every one that will minister , must do it freely , and as of the ability which God giveth him , and as the Oracle of God , and that no profession of people may maintain anothers Minister ; but that there may be a free preaching , and a free hearing among all people , that so it may be a free Nation ; and they that will have Teachers according to their own lusts and judgements , they to maintain them ; and that there may never any such iniquity be established by a Law , as for one sort of people to maintain anothers Minister ; for this hath caused heart-burnings , envy and strife , insomuch that little Justice could be done for the Nation , by reason of the cry of complainers and oppressors , as at every Parliament , every high Court , every Assizes and Sessions , and petty Courts , there hath some ( pretended ) Minister or other been presenting Addresses , Petitions or Complaints , and so have stopt the just and lawful proceedings of the affairs of the Nation ; which interruption may easily be prevented , and the Courts of Justice freed from such brawling and unreasonable complaints , which hath been more interruption to Justice , than any thing in the Nation besides , and hath more hindered the peoples deliverance from being a free people and a free Nation , than any thing in the Nation besides . So let every form and profession of Religion maintain their own Minister , and maintain their poor which are crying at their Meeting-house doors , and in the Streets , in the Name of their God , for some relief ; that so there may not be a beggar in England ; for herein the Christians in name , are become even a reproach among the Heathens , to see their own flesh stand naked and uncovered in the streets and Steeple-house doors , and at their doors , and they turn their ears from the poor , and forget God , and loses the bowels of compassion , and are not merciful as the Father which is in Heaven is merci●ul ; and so walks not according to the Scriptures , but is a disgrace to Religion , and even a reproach among the Heathen . So let no more the cry of the Priests nor of the poor be heard in our Land , the one crying for Laws to persecute and receive money of those who they preach not unto , which receives no teaching from them ; which cry is intolerable to be heard or suffered in a free Common-wealth : And the other for want of the creatures of God , when as others spend the creatures of God upon their lusts excessively ; and so the Creation is out of order . 〈◊〉 those that are come into the Gospel-Ministration , and to be taught of the Lord , and have received Christ Jesus the Lord , and walk in him , it is not so amongst us ; for the creatures of God are not spent upon the lust , nor destroyed ; neither is there a beggar amongst us , who are truly of us in the obedience of truth ; so that we do not desire that any people or profession in the Nation should maintain our poor ; for they are our own flesh without respect of persons ; for if any of us have of this Worlds good , and see our Brother stand in need , and shuts up the bowels of compassion from him , the love of God doth not dwel in us ; neither doth any other maintain those that minister unto us the Word and Doctrine ; so we according to the royal Law of Liberty , desire to do unto others as we would have them do unto us ; and thus to be a free people and a free Nation . So every form and profession will enjoy their own Minister , till they come to know him unto whom the gatherings of the people must be , viz : Christ : So that neither Parliament , Assizes , S●ssions nor Courts , will have any thing to do in matter of Religion , but to keep the peace of the Nation ; and then he that hath the Word of God , may speak his Word faithfully and freely without interruption , so that the Gospel of God may have its free course , and be glorified ; and that great oppression of Tythes ( which lies heavy upon the whole Nation , which God raised up his Spirit in the Army once to testifie against ) may be taken away , that what was then pretended , may be now fulfilled , and the people eased of their oppressions , which they have long felt the burthen of , and groaned under , that so ( as a free people ) they may be delivered from that bondage , and the Law may be disannulled by which that bondage is imposed upon them . So this will beget love in the Nation , and all persecution , cruelty and bitterness w●ll cease , and every one may freely and quietly enjoy the fruit of his own labor ; then with much freedom & chearfulness wil every one minister of his substance unto all necessary uses , knowing that the earth and the fulness of it is the Lords : And when this universal love and free Spirit is begotten among people , then wil righteousness establish the Nation , and that will be brought forth which many sincere hearts and tender consciences hath waited for seve●●l years ; and many have been even almost weary and faint in ●heir minds in waiting for that which they once had a lively sight of , and hopes to enjoy in the Lord's promise of Liberty and Freedom , opened in their understandings ten years since , insomuch ●hat some have been ready to tempt God , and say that he was slack concerning his promise ; and some for want of long patience have lef● off expecting that which they once believed & hoped fo● ; but God is reviving the hopes of the contrite ones , & in them that had said there was no hope in them , is he renewing strength to believe that God will give Judges as at the first , and Counsellors as at the beginning ; the Judges at the first were not to judge for gifts nor for rewards , nor the Priests were not to preach for hire , nor the Prophets were not to divine for money , but the Judges did minister justice freely between man and man , and the Priests did minister the Law freely , which was added upon all transgression : So in those days there were no Priests that troubled the Courts , Judges nor Counsellors with Addresses , Petitions or Complaints for maintenance ; no suing at the Law , no imprisoning mens persons for Wages , nor no spoiling of mens goods , and there was not such delays in executing judgment upon transgressors , as is now ; for the Judges sate in the gate , and executed judgement speedily upon the offendors , and cleansed the Land of evil-doers , and so eve●y one was to wait on his M●nistry which he had received from the Lord , and are to do so now , if they do it unto the Lord : He that judgeth for God , is not to respect any mans person in judgment ; and he that hath the Word of the Kingdom , is to minister it freely , and then the people wil minister their carnal things freely to every one that hath need ; so that whereas even from the Priest to the people , all have been given to covetousness , strife and debate , every one now will be given to love and freeness one to another ; for he that hath spiritual things , wil minister them freely , and he that hath carnal things will minister them freely ; and so will all come from under the execution of the Law , and from all strife and contention . Another great oppression wherein iniquity is upheld by a Law , is in the Ministration of the Law between man and man , it not being done freely , so not as in the beginning . HE that doth minister the Law , let him do it freely for the Lord , and for righteousness sake ; and let him be as one of the Judges in the beginning , and as one of the Counsellors , whose eyes were not blinded with gifts and rewards ; and so it will come to be a free Nation , and then every man will not seek his own , but every one anothers good ; and then will pure love spring up to one another , and one will seek to preserve and save another , and not devour and destroy one another about earthly things , as now they do ; so Christ's Spirit will be found among all sorts of people , Ministers of the Law , Ministers of the Gospel , and Subjects of the Nation , which were to save mens lives , not to destroy them ; and then the Scriptures which cannot be broken , wil be fulfilled , and peace wil be extended as a River , and righteousnesse as a mighty Stream . For it is this spirit which I have mentioned in Lawyers and Priests , which did not minister freely , but for covetous ends hath made merchandize of peoples souls and estates , that hath broken the peace of this Nation , as many hath had a deep experience ; even when the Army was in its first purity and zeal for God and his Truth , that Spirit did creep into their Counsels , and corrupted them , and did creep into Parliaments , and corrupted them ; and when there was any appearance of a Monarchy or Government arising in the Nation , that spirit crept into every high Court , and corrupted it ; so that whole Nations are corrupted with that spirit ; so that till that spirit be purged out , there is not like to be a free Nation , or a free people : For it was that Spirit which brought Israel into bondage , which was once a free Nation , and not in bondage to any man , while the Judges judged freely , and the Priests preached freely , and the Prophets prophesied freely without money , or without price ; then was Israel a free Nation , and a free people , and the glory of all Nations : But when the Judges judged for gifts and rewards , and the Priests preached for hire , and the Prophets divined for money , then they became as corrupt as the Nations of the Gentiles round about them , and then they came into bondage and captivity , and then prophaneness went forth from the Priests into all the Earth , as it doth from those in England , which are in the same state . Now see that sin and covetousness is a reproach to any people , as Solomon saith , Prov. 14.22 . and it is that which brings them into bondage from being a free people . Now if none may minister the Law , but those that do it freely as unto the Lord , and as his Ministers , then that covetous self-seeking spirit will be purged out in Judges , Counsellors , Lawyers , Attorneys and Solicitors , which would devour the Creation to spend upon their ovvn lusts , that seek for great places to enrich themselves , and destroy others ; so that Equity , Law and Justice is lost , and the free ministration of it in this Nation ; so that in many cases a man had better suffer himself to be defrauded , then to seek to the Law for Justice , the administration of it is become so corrupt ; and the Law is so perverted by them , that a man is not suffered to plead his own cause , but is forced to hire a Lawyer or an Attorney , and men are not suffered to bear a true and faithful witness , nor to have the truth and justness of their cause co●firmed by the mouth of two or three Witnesses without swearing ; and so people are still stept in bondage by deceit and oppression , from having the liberty of their pure consciences ; and so neither Law , Judges nor Counsellors are now as at the beginning , nor such as ought to be in a free Commonwealth . Now whereas in your late proceedings it is ordered & granted , that every one shall have their free liberty , first as an English man ; secondly as a Christian : Which liberty hitherto we have not enjoyed ; for as English men we have not had our just liberty in the Nation ; first , as concerning the Law ; secondly , as concerning the worship of God ; for in this our own Nation , & in our own Counties , where we have been wel known ( & also just and true , & of good report , and no evil justly laid to our charge ) have we been shamefully abused , whipped , stoned , prisoned , and both our bodies & goods spoiled , accounted as vagrants , and not permitted as English men , to have the liberty of the Law , because we as Christians , could not transgress the commandment of Christ , which saith , Swear not at all : So that if we may have our liberty as English men , then not to be persecuted in our own country as vagrants , where we are known to be no such persons : And from hence let a true testimony in yea or nay , be taken in our Law without an oath ; for he that can take liberty to swear , & so to break Christ's command , wil take liberty to lye also . And 2 dly , If we may enjoy our liberty as Christians , then we are not to be forced by a law to maintain the Antichristian Ministers , nor to be forced to swear contrary to Christ's command ; and also that Act and Law is to be abolished , which is to persecute any for travelling on the first day of the Week ; yea , when many on that day hath but travelled to the Worship of God , hath been imprisoned , and some their horses taken from them , & never yet had them again ; and this is contrary to the Christians liberty ; for the Christians , and the disciples of Christ in the primitive times , travelled upon that day ; and Christ himself travelled upon that day , as you may read in Luke 24.15 . where two of the disciples travelled from Jerusalem to a village called Emaus ( and Christ being risen from the dead , travelled with them ( which was from Jerusalem about 6 furlongs , and that same day they travelled back again from Emaus to Jerusalem ; verse 33. which in all is about 15. miles ; and if they had travelled other 15. miles more , it was but the Christians liberty , and no Law to the contrary : So let that be repealed which binds and limits us from using the Christians liberty , and for walking as they walked . And let not any Magistrate be encouraged by you to act any cruelty or persecution from his will , upon any for the exercise of their consciences in the fear of God , in obedience to his will ; for the day of your tryal is come , and the day which wil make all things manifest , and every work of what sort it is . An opportunity hath been put into the hands of many , to act for God , who had no heart to improve it , but have improved their own interest for their own ambition , and God hath made them as a reproach and a by-word among the people , who have sought their own , and not anothers good , and have abused the power put into their hands : Therefore you that have not yet lost your day nor time , redeem it , lest the Lord cast you by also , as not fit to do his Work , as he hath done others . An Answer to a Declaration put forth by the gene●al consent of ●he People called Anabaptists , in and about the City of LONDON . FRiends called Anabaptists , whereas you say , You are misrepresented to the Nation ; 1. As such as are opposite to Magistracy . 2. As such as would destroy the publick Ministry of the Nation , who differ from you in some things about Religion . 3. That you do countenance the People called Quakers in their irregular practice . 4. That you endeavour a Toleration of all miscarriages in things Ecclesiastical and Civil , under pretence of Liberty of Conscience . 5. That ye design to murder and destroy those that differ from you in matters of Religion , thereby endeavouring to make you odious to ●●me people fearing God , and also to incense the rude multitude against you , to provoke them ( if possible ) to destroy you , &c. Unto the first of which you say , Though we cannot answer in justification of every individual person that is of our profession in matters of Religion , yet we can say this , and prove it to all the world , that it hath been our profession , and is our real practise to be obedient to Magistracy in all things Civil , and willing to live peaceably under whatever Government is , or shall be established in this Nation : For we do believe and declare Magistracy to be an Ordinance of God , and ought to be obeyed in all lawful things . Ans. For you to give up your selves willingly and peaceably into whatsoever Government is , or shall be established in this Nation , without any limitation , and to submit unto any Power or Magistracy that doth or shall rule , as the Ordinance of God , without any limitation or qualification , is far below that Spirit which was once in some of you in that profession ; for you have told of having the Laws regulated according to the Scriptures , and of having Judges as at the first , and Counsellors as at the beginning ; and then not to submit to what Government soever , but that which is according to Equity and Justice . And what do you bear Arms , or fight for , if not for a Government according to truth , and that Righteousness may establish the Nation ? Some have judged this to be the very Design and End of the War and Controversie against many that were Governors and Magistrates , and were by some called the Ordinance of God , and the higher Power : And if now you resolve to live peaceably , and submit to whatever Government shall be establish●d , then your Fighting is at end . And if any shall come in , and establish Popery , and govern by tyranny , you have begged pardon by promising willingly to submit and live peaceably under it as the Ordinance of God. And if Jeroboam come to reign , and set up Calves to worship , and cause the people to sin , yet you will submit and live peaceably and quietly under it , accounting it the Ordinance of God. And if a Pharoah come to rule , he that bears rule must be counted a Magistrate , and a Magistracy must be accounted the Ordinance of God by you , and peaceably submitted unto ; and whatsoever Government they set up by their Act , wil be accounted lawful things , and you must submit to them , else you have proved your selves all lyars ; but some did judge that ye had been of another spirit . To the second you say , As for the publick Ministry of the Nation , who differ from us in the matter of baptizing Infants , and some things in Church-Government , we are so far from endeavouring to destroy them , that we judge they ought to have the liberty of their consciences therein ; and that it is our duty to stand by them and preserve them ( so much as in us lies ) from all injury and violence . Ans. It seems then that there is not so much difference betwixt them and you , as will make them Antichristian , and you Christian ; and there is a near compliance , when as it is your duty to stand by them and preserve them while they are baptizing Infants : But can you stand by them and preserve them , and not tell them that it is Antichristian , or contrary to the Scriptures ? And do you think that they will do as much for you , as to stand by you while you are plunging your Members in the water ? And although you do so as you say ; is not this contradiction to your selves in what you say in the same Paper ? For do you not say , That you will not tolerate any miscarriages in things Civil or Religious ? And whether is not this a miscarriage in things religious , to baptize Infants ? And whether do you not tolerate this miscarr●age in them , while you stand by to preserve them in it ( as you say ) from injury and violence ? But who doth offer any violence to them which are their guard against ? but the Priests will hardly believe you ; and if they ever have power , that will not pardon you for so saying ; and therefore you had better have been silent , than have shewed pour weakness and ignorance for nothing . To the third you say , Concerning the people called Quakers , it is well known unto all ( that are not wilfully ignorant ) there are none more opposite to their irregular practices than we are ; nor are there any that they have exprest more contradiction to in matters of Religion , than against us , though their provocation therein , hath not put us in the least on a desire of depriving them of their just liberty , while they live morally honest and peaceable in the Nation . Ans. Is not this secret smiting without a cause ? What irregular practice is that which you accuse them of , and wil not mention ? is this honestly done ? What , are they worse than the Episcopal Priests you mention to them , wherein they differ from you ? and why not to the Quakers ? Is it enough for any man to believe that they are irregular , because you say so without any proof ? Or dare you not mention wherein you judge it so , lest they should disprove you ? But you say , there is not any they have expressed more contradiction to , in matters of Religion , than against you . Answ. That is false ; for they have more contradicted the common Priests of the Nation , as their Books and sufferings will witness , although they have according to truth contradicted you , and also have more of your contradictions and confusions to declare concerning you , which are not yet published : But what do you account their irregular practice ? Is it because their yea is yea , and their nay is nay in all their communications ( and yours not so ? ) Or is it because they cannot swear at all ? Or is it because they cannot have any mans person in admiration because of advantage , or because they cannot respect the person of the rich , nor honor the person of the mighty ? Is it because they do unto others as they would have others to do unto them ? Or because they speak the truth every one to his Neighbour , without partiality or hypocrisie ? Or is it any thing relating to these things above-named ? If not , in your next mention in what , or else the wise in heart wil judge you to sprak onely from your imaginary conceit . But what is your end in so secret smiting them ? Do you think to excuse your selves by accusing them ? And who is it that doth charge you in countenancing the Quakers in their practices either regular or irregular ? I know none that hath any ground so to charge you : But to men of understanding who can see beyond words , you rather appear to be begging a pardon of the Episcopal and Presbyter , and the vvild Boys and Apprentices of London , by accusing the Quakers , as hereafter will appear ; and that fearfulness and unbelieving is entred into your hearts , and so your spirits are betrayed into a slavish fear ; but if ever you be accepted or owned of God ; you must own that for your strength which the Quakers live in ; and if ever any rule for God in this Nation , they must own that Light , Life and Spirit which they are guided by , and then they will not despise , but have unity with the Quakers . To the fourth you say , Whereas we are further charged with endeavouring an universal Toleration of all miscarriages both in things Religious and Civil , under pretence of Liberty of Conscience ; it is in both respects notoriously false . And we do before the Lord that shall judge both quick and dead , yea before Angels and Men , declare our utter detestation of such a Toleration ; for in matters Civil we desire there may not be the least toleration of miscarriage in any , much less in our selves . Nor do we desire in matters of Religion , that Popery should be tolerated , the blood of many thousands of the People of God having been barbarously shed by the Professors thereof ; or any person tolerated that worship a false God , nor any that speak contemptuously and reproachfully of our Lord Jesus Christ , nor any that deny the holy Scriptures contained in the Books of the Old and New-Testament , to be the Word of God ; and yet we are not against tolerating of Episcopacy , Presbyter , or any stinted form , provided they do not compel any others to a compliance therewith , or a conformity thereunto . For whatever Composers of any form of Worship , may possibly err , it is derogating from God and his holy Word , and injurious to men to compel any to the practice thereof . Ans. What confusion is here , and contradiction both to your selves , and to the ex●mple of Christ ? As to Religion , you wil not tolerate Popery , because the blood of many of the people of God have been barbarously shed by the professors thereof ; neither wil you have any persons tolerated that worship a false God ; nor any that speak contemp●uously and reproachfully of the Lord Jesus Christ ; nor any that deny the holy Scriptures contained in the Books of the Old & New-Testament , to be the Word of God. And yet you are not against tolerating of Episcopacy , Presbytery , or any stinted form : Why wil you not tolerate Popery as well as Episcopacy ? Have not the professors of Episcopacy murthered and slain , and do labour to murther and slay the people of God , as well as the Papists ? And why will you tolerate the Common-Prayer among the Episcopacy , and not the Mass-Book among the Papists , seeing that the Mass was the substance out of which the Common-prayer was extracted ? Here is nothing but partiality , to tolerate one thing and not another of the same kind : And why will you not tolerate the persons of those that worship a false God , nor the persons of those that deny the Scriptures to be the Word of God , nor the persons of those that speak contemptuously and reproachfully of the Lord Jesus Christ ? Ans. If you will not tolerate their persons , then you will murther or destroy their persons ; and herein you have proved the accusation against you to be true , that you have a design to murther and destroy those that differ from you in matters of Religion : As for instance , those that worship a false God , they differ from you in matters of Religion , and you will not have any of their persons tolerated , and their persons must be destroyed for differing from you in matters of Religion . And they that deny the Scriptures ( that is , the Writings ) to be the Word of God , ( that is , to be Christ , whose Name is called the Word of God ) you will not tolerate their persons , then you will destroy them , because they differ from you in matters of Religion . And those that speak reproachfully of Jesus Christ , you wil not tolerate their persons , then you wil destroy their persons because they differ from you in matters of Religion . and thus having contradicted your selves , you have also contradicted the example of Christ ; for he came among those that worshipped false Gods , even stocks and stones , and graven Images , the Works of mens hands ; and he was not against tolerating their persons , neither came he to destroy mens lives because of such things , but had a Gospel to preach unto them , whereby they might learn to know the living God , and turn from dumb Idols , and those that speak reproachfully against him , and said he had a Devil ; yet he was not against tolerating their persons , but preached the Kingdom of God to them , and did bid them seek it , and the righteousness thereof ; and told them that the Kingdom of God was within them ; and he w●s among such as denied that there was a God , or Christ , or Resurrection , Angel or Spirit ; and this is more than to deny the Scriptures to be the Word of God , which indeed is words , and not the Word . And Christ was not against tolerating of any of the persons , as you have expressed your selves to be , and so shewed forth a murthering Spirit : But seeing that you wil not have any person tolerated that worships a false God , what must be done vvith their persons ? But what difference is there ( in the ground or cause of toleration ) between those that vvorship a false god , or they vvhich vvorship the true God in a false vvay ? And if the persons of neither of those should be tolerated , then the toleration vvould but reach a little compass But vvho must be Judge of that blasphemy , contempt or reproach spoken against the Lord Jesus Christ ? Was it not blasphemy in the Apostles days for one to say he was a Jew , and was not ? Rev. 2. v. 9 And is it not as great blasphemy now to say that he is a Christian or a Believer , that is not ? And must not any person be tolerated that speak such vvords ? And must not such a person be tolerated that denies the Scriptures to be the Word of God ? Then it appears they must not be tolerated that say , In the beginning was the Word , as John 1.4 . Nor that say that Christ is the Word , and that the Scriptures are they which testifie of him , as John 5. And if we search out your toleration to the bottom , it will be reduced into this compass , That none shall be tolerated but those that say as you say , and profess what you profess ; and you among your selves are as a Kingdom divided , that cannot stand ; and you are not they vvhich are fit to Rule in the Nation to prescribe Liberty , nor give toleration ; but if you had been of Christ's Spirit , you would have professed Toleration , and not Destruction unto all persons in matters of Religion ; and then they that have the Gospel of Christ , may minister it freely among those that vvorship a false god , and among those that worship the true God ignorantly , and minister it among the Papists , ●piscopal and Presbyterie , Heathens , Turks and Pagans , which are all out of the way , and so to convince the gain-sayers , so that all the wicked impositions , cruelty , persecution and killing one another about Religion , would cease , and then the Gospel of peace which is the power of God , would rule over deceit ; and Truth and Righteousnesse would encrease and spread over the Nations ; but you have appeared to be of a spirit of Confusion and Contradiction ; for vvhen you have spoken against tolerating the persons before mentioned , yet you say ( in contradiction to it ) you are not against tolerating Episcopacy , Presbyterie , or any stinted Form , provided they do not compel any others to a compliance therewith , or conformity thereunto , &c. Now consider , and let even your own foolishness correct you : Is not the Papists ( which ye have have excepted against ) a stinted Form ? And are not those that vvorship a false god , a stinted Form ? And are not the Sadduces that deny that there is either God , Christ , Angel , Resurrection or Spirit , a stinted Form ? And is not the Jews a stinted Form , although they speak contemptuously of the Lord Jesus Christ , which before you have said you will not tolerate their persons , because they speak contemptuously of the Lord Jesus Christ ; and now you say you wil tolerate , because they are a stinted Form : How must the Jews be converted who have spoken contemptuously and reproachfully of the Lord Jesus Christ , calling him a Deceiver , a Blasphemer , and that he had a Devil , seeing you will not tolerate their persons until they be converted ? And how shall the Heathens that worship false gods , be converted , seeing their persons must not be tolerated ? And what must be done with those many hundreds of Congregations in England which worship God in the Spirit , and yet do deny the Scriptures ( as Words and Writings ) of the Old and New-Testament to be the Word of God , but do confesse them to be a Testimony of the Word , and of him who is the beginning and end of the words , in whom , and by whom they all come to be fulfilled to the Saints : What must their persons be done with , seeing they must not be tolerated ? But you may say , That those things was spoken in your haste , or at least in your fear , whereby you were surprized in the Uproar of the rude Boys and Apprentices of London : But a little fear entering into the Hypocrisie , doth try your spirits , and cause you to bring forth the intents of your hearts , as in your paper is manifest . To the last you say , Forasmuch as we are charged to murder and destroy those that differ from us in matters of Religion , We do not only abhor and detest it as a cursed practice , but we hope we have approved our selves both in this City and the Nation , to the contrary ; notwithstanding the great provocation of some who have endeavoured our ruine . For that we desire is , just liberty to men as men ; that every man may be preserved in his own just rights ; and that Christians may be preserved as Christians , though of different apprehensions in some things of Religion ; in the prosecution whereof , our lives shall not be dear unto us , when we are thereunto lawfully called . The designs of our adversaries in these calumnies , are to mis-represent us to some people fearing God , and also to incense the rude Multitude against us , purposely to provoke them ( if possible ) to destroy us . Ans. In what you have before expressed , you have more given than taken away the occasion of this Charge against you , by your instancing the not tolerating of such persons before-mentioned ; for if you did ( as you say ) desire the just liberty of men , as men , then every man without respect to Apprehensions , Perswasions or Worships , as a man and person , should be tolerated , that those who are Christians , might inform them of the true God , when they worship false gods : And hereby you give great occasion unto those that seek occasion from you , when you with a general consent cry against the tolerating the persons of so many sorts of people about differing from you in Religion . And as for some of them whom ye would accuse as irregular , many by experience can witness , that neither Weapon nor Tongue formed against them , can prosper ; and the time may come when you may be glad to be upholden with a little of their strength , and not to reject those whom God hath , doth , and will own for his people in the midst of their Enemies ; for God hath made them even as eyes to behold the spirits of men , and the changings of their ways , and to give them a reproof in due season , when they darken Wisdom , and confound their matter by words without knowledge , in false fears and haste , when they are out of patience , and out of Faith in God , as the Baptists here have done ; and the fearful and unbelieving cannot accomplish the righteousness of God , neither will he bring forth his intended Work by them ; but such as are of a true Spirit , that look only at the glory of God , and setting up of his Truth , who are come to the spiritual Weapons , and do not wrestle with flesh and blood , but with the powers of darkness , and with spiritual wickedness , and such as are not false accusers of others , but seek the good of all men , such will the Lord honor and exalt in his Work , and they shall perfect his praise . So Friends , you have been hasty to utter words before the Lord , for which his reproof justly comes upon you : Therefore let your words be few , & mind the fear of the Lord God , which is the beginning of wisdom , and that will slay your false fears , from which unsavoury and unsound words hath proceeded ; for your Religion is vain while your tongue is not bridled ; for it is better to be still and keep silence , then to utter words from the line of confusion ( that is stretched over you ) thereby to get a name in the Earth ; which Line all people walk in , but those who are led by the Spirit of God to speak words that cannot be condemned ; for it is the Spirit of the Lord God and his Power , which must slay the enmity in you , which is the ground of your prejudice and hard speeches against the Lambs of Christ ; which when that is slain within , then those evil fruits of the lips will cease without , and then the fountain of Life will open in you , which brings forth fruits of another nature ; and when the fruits of your lips is truth , righteousness and peace , then wil you have fellowship with the Father and the Son , and with us who walk in his Light. A Copy of a Paper sent to the Council of State , in the Year 1659. LEt every one that will minister the Gospel , do it freely , according to the example of the Apostles , and the Ministers of Christ. And do not you go about to provide any maintenance for any Ministers of any sort in the Nation ; for in that you wil but lay a yoke upon the Disciples necks , and an imposition upon tender Consciences , which cannot do any thing but what they do freely as unto the Lord ; and let every one that will preach the Gospel , live of the Gospel , and not upon any setled or State maintenance ; for thereby you will but set up another Image , and continue the same oppression of tythes , though under another name , upon the people , and will neither ease nor satisfie the people at all ; for the cry of the honest and godly people of this Nation , is , to have a free Ministry , and free maintenance , and are willing f●eely to maintain those that minister unto them the Word and Doctrine , and are not willing that the Civil Magistrate should meddle with that which relates to spiritual things in this case ; and so every sort of people in the Nation , freely maintaining their own Ministry , puts an end unto all troubles , suits , complaints and petitions of that kind , in which the Nation hath long been burdened and troubled with ; which with much ease and satisfaction to all people , this way may be ended , and no other way can . R. H. A word of Wisdom and Counsel to the Officers and Souldiers of the Army in England , &c. To weigh and consider before the light and power of their day be shut up in darkness when they cannot Act for God. THe people of this Commonwealth hath by deep and sad experiences not onely seen the falseness and deceivableness of many fair words and pretences , whereby they have been betrayed of their liberties and freedom , and nothing yet but bondage and slavery is left upon them , but they also through their deep sufferings have learned to know the spirits of men . And though every appearance of a Power that ariseth gets new words and fair pretences , but still in the old spirit : Yet we do perfectly know , that it is the new Spirit of the Lord put in the inward parts , from which men must act for the Lord and for the Liberties of his people , before they be established in righteousness , or enjoy the liberty of their Consciences . And we see that God hath given time and days , which should have been days of liberty and of plenteous redemption : But through mens departing from the leadings of God , and suffering their own wisdom to pervert them , they became days of persecution and cruelty , which for the Elects sake ( which suffered in them ) was shortned ; as for instance ; 1. Oliver Cromwel in his days made many Vows , Promises , Engagements and Professions for the liberty of tender Consciences , as the honest people of this Nation are not ignorant ; and how that at Dunbar , he confest unto God in his prayer , That if the Lord would but deliver him that time , he would take away that great oppression of Tithes ; which when he was delivered , both at that and many other times , and had a prize put into his hand , yet had no heart to improve it ; but contrary to all his prayers , promises and engagements , suffered and tolerated the wicked spirit of persecution , in the murthering Priests and Magistrates to Rule in the Land over tender Consciences , even until violence and blood covered the earth and filled the whole Nation , suffering Laws to be made for Tythes , and for persecuting of tender Consciences , and so building again that which he had destroyed , and so made himself a Transgressor ; but for the elects sake his dayes were shortened . 2. In the dayes of R. Cromwell many of that succeeding Parliament began to declare their sensibleness , how that O. Cromwel had betrayed the Nation and its Liberty , and left them in great bondage , debt , persecution and slavery ; But how soon they were perverted , and became more bloody and cruel against all that fear God , ( the upright in heart are sensible ) setting up in themselves that which they declared against in him , and instead of giving liberty and freedom to the Army and to the people of God , they voted down that liberty and freedom which they already had ( viz. ) of meeting together one with another in the fear and worship of God , & so they became cruel as the Ostrich in the Wildernesse , and as evening Wolves ; but for the Elects sake was their dayes shortened . 3. The long and late Parl. they came up with greater pretences of liberty and freedom , then all that was before them and the people generally applauding of them , by telling them that they were the beginners of setling the Nation in the way of a Common wealth ; and did expect they should perfect the peoples Liberty and Freedom outwardly ( which by the other Powers they had suffered under ) expecting that they should remove those burthens which was laid upon tender Consciences by impositions and cruel sufferings , and in their beginning they seemed to be given up to do the work expected from them , and did publish it in their weekly news to the Nation several times , that it was their real intent to make the Nation a Free Common-wealth , not in name but in Nature , and this was often expressed by them ; and indeed they did something more then those that went before them , in setting at Liberty those that were imprisoned because they could not pay Tythes to the Priests ; and because they could not swear , and because they could not put off their hats to honour pride and ambition , and because they spoke the Truth against the deceits of the Priests , which both the Souldiers and the honest-hea●ted in the Nation knows how treacherous they have been , and the hinderance of every appearance of God in the Nation ; for the chief cause of Gods breaking down , and of bringing into ignominy , shame and reproach those late powers before mentioned , was , the letting in of the Priests spirit and flatteries , as O. Cromwell , if alive , would witnesse , or those that are alive may witnesse for him , that he had never been such a covenant-breaker and betrayer of the Nations Liberties , but by letting in that wicked interest , which made him a reproach , a by-word ▪ a hissing among the people . And the two late Parliaments , it was their joyning to that betraying interest of the Priests , and neglecting of the Nations businesse that brought darkenesse and confusion , and consequently a dissolution upon them : And the last as I said , did something more then the former ; But when they began to revive the Committee for plundred Ministers , and did not take notice , nor call any Committee to subdue or punish the plundering Ministers , of which they were informed from divers parts of the Nation , which had feloniously taken away the goods of many an honest innocent man ; then did Gods Indignation grow hot against them , and then was it time for them to be dissolved ; for they had finished their day , and they had done all that ever they would have done for the Lord ; for bonds and violence was in their hearts , but for the Elects sake , which hath alwayes borne a true Testimony against the oppression and cruelty under which the Innocent suffers , was their days shortened . All those before mentioned had their day from the Lord given them to try and to prove them , and they have been tried and proved . And now you the Army have your day from the Lord , wherein you will be tried and proved ; and you will be more inexcusable if you do not the things pretended , then any that hath been before you ; for you see what hath been the cause of the fall ; and you see how that through Pride and Ambition , flatteries and fair pretences , the Cause of God , and the Peoples Liberties have been betrayed by those that have fought honour one of another , and not the honour which belongs unto God onely ; Therefore if you would have the Lord to honour you , and keep you in renown in the Nation , seek not your selves , but deny your own Lordships honours and Excellencies , let none cleave unto you by flatteries , in giving you titles in seeming respect and honors , for that will betray you , and lead you from that Innocency by which you should act for the Lord ; and as now you have Power , exercise it , in chusing men fearing God , and hating covetousnesse , ambition , pride and honor , that so the Nation may enjoy that Liberty and Feedom which they have long waited for , and suffer none to act that persecution in your names which hath already covered the Nation with blackness and darknesse , and hath brought Gods curse upon their proceedings . One thing is upon me to acquaint you with , which many of you it may be doth not know , which is this ; One of the little horns which pushed and persecuted the Lambs of Christ , is springing up again , and begins to be as fierce as ever ; For yesterday in the Exchequor at Westminster ▪ Judge Parker and Judge Wilde would not receive a true answer from an honest man ( who is well known for his uprightnesse ) against a false Bill exhibited against him by a Priest , unlesse he would give it in upon Oath ; and therefore because he could not swear for Conscience sake , but did testifie the Truth from his heart , he was committed Prisoner to the Fleet , and several others True and Just men , and Friends to the Common-wealth , was denied the Law , and their answers rejected , because they could not swear ; but in whose names and by whose authority they act those things is not yet declared to the Nation : If those Judges act those things in the name and by the authority of the Army , or their late chosen Counsel , let it be openly manifest ; and if not , but they did it in their own names , let the Nation know it ; For this is worse then the last Parliament , who did set many free who where so imprisoned , and did give Commissions and receive Testimony without swearing ; & Judge Parker seems to have forgotten that knowledge and fidelity which he had of that people when he went his last circuit in the North , and his so favouring the Priests now , shews that he hath forgotten since he confest that he was Sermon-sick at Carlisle this last Summer , when he wished that a Quaker had been there , and saw that they had reason to declare against them , &c. But to us it is no strange thing to see men so apt to change and to betray their own knowledge for filthy lucre sake , while the corruption of the Laws through bribery and deceit is upheld , which once the Souldiers had a clear sig●t o● , and a determination to pull down , and now it is the only day of their tryal to prov● themselves , and it is doing of that which you have accused the Parliament for not doing , that must make you manifest ; for people will no longer believe words ; for your selves know , that the good people of the Nation have made daily complaints and Petitions , & the Officers & Souldiers also , against that general oppression of Tithes , & the Parliament hath only given them thanks for their good expressions , and good affections but done nothing , until their thanks did even become loathsom to the people . Is it not a grievous thing , and intolerable to be born , that innocent and faithful men ( who see and deny the Priests deceit ) should be forced , whether by Law or Violence , to give them the tenth part of all their labours and increase , and they with that money to buy horse and arms to raise a Rebellion , to murther and destroy those men who deny to give them that which your Law hath caused to be taken from them , and so both the Law and Priesthood is joyned together in oppression of the people ! And the Nation is very sensible that all this while they have but been deceived by promises and fair pretences ; Therefore be diligent to improve the light of your day , before the Sun set upon you , and you be shut up in darkness , and the power to do good be taken from you . A member of his Army , who makes War with the sword of his mouth , Richard Hubberthorn . London the 24. of the 8. mo . 1659. An Answer to the Oath of Allegiance and Supremacie , from the People ( called Quakers . A Copy of which was given to the KING by them upon the 4. day of the 5. Moneth , 1660. AS it was the Disciples Religion , Principle ; and Practice , to obey Christs command , as in Mat. 5.34 . But I say unto you , Swear not at all ; neither by Heaven , for it is Gods Throne ; nor by the Earth for it is his foot-stool ; neither by Jerusalem , for it is the City of the great King ; neither shalt thou swear by thy head , for thou canst not make one hair white or black ; but let your yea , be yea , and your nay , nay , for whatsoever is more then these cometh of evil ; and this being the Apostles Religion and practice , rhey preached thi● doctrine unto others , as it is written , James 5.12 . But above all things my brethren , swear not , neither by heaven , neither by the earth , neither by any other oath , but let your yea , be yea , and your nay , nay , lest you fall into condemnation ; so this is our doctrine , principle and practice , that we cannot swear at all , by any oath , lest we fall into condemnation , and so sin against Christ ; and if we do suffer or be persecuted , and imprisoned , because we cannot swear , then it is for our Religion and exercise of our Consciences , and obed●ence of truth unto our God , in which suffering we shall rather die then sin against him . And whereas it is required of us to testifie our obedience as Subjects unto Charles the second as our lawful King , and own his Supremacie and Government in all just and lawful commands , whereupon an oath of Allegiance and Supremacie is tendred . As it is our principle , and hath ever been our practice to be obedient Subjects under every Power ordained of God , and to every ordinance of man ( set up by him ) for the Lords sake , whether unto King as Supream , or unto Governours or any set up in authority by him , who are for the punishment of evil-doers , and for the praise of them that do well , 1 Pet. 2.13 , 14. and unto such we do freely promise obedience unto all just and lawful commands : And we do own and believe that it is not without , but according to the purpose of the Lord , that he hath this day and power given him as King , head and chief Magistrate over this Nation , that while he hath this day and power , he may rule for God in civil and outward affairs , and matters relating to the outward man and estate , in which all his just and lawful commands we can willingly be subject unto , not for wrath , but even for conscience sake , and all commands which are otherwise , whether from him , or any other , we shall willingly and patiently suffer under them what men shall be permitted to impose upon us , and thus we do accept and own the King and his Government , as he and it is according to God , and answerable unto him , we are willingly obedient , and in Conscience bound to accept it , and shall yield subjection thereunto ; but if otherwise , contrary to God , he rule in tyranny , oppression , injustice , or the like , that we must bear witness against by the spirit of truth , but not by outward opposition , as rebellion , by insurrections , plots , or carnal weapons , to destroy or overthrow , either him or the Government thereby ; for that is contrary to our life . But as for swearing , it being contrary both to Christs command and our Consciences , as we never have , so we never shall swear , neither for , nor against any Man , Power , or Government , but shall be true and faithful to what we promise and profess . And as concerning the Church of God , and spiritual things relating unto Gods Kingdom , we own onely Jesus Christ as Supream Head , Ruler , and Lawgiver there , according to James 4.1 . There is one Lawgiver which is able to save and to destroy , and as it is written , Ephes. 1.12 . that God hath given him to be the head over all things to the Church , which is his body , the fulness of him that filleth all in all ; and as the Apostles did hold forth him to be the head of the body the Church , who is the beginning , the first-born from the dead , that in all th●ngs he might have the preeminence , Col. 1.18 . And him we do own as head , Ruler and Commander in all matters of Faith , Obedience , and Worship , in things appertaining unto his Kingdom ; and he onely is to rule ( give laws and order ) in the Consciences of men , by his spirit , light , and power ; and as he is the author of his people Faith , so he is the defender of it , and them in it ; and so to him we give the Dominion , Rule and Government , as Head and Supream over his Church , and not unto man : so in him who is our Life , King , and Lawgiver , we honour all men , and do seek the peace of all men , and not the destruction ; and unto this we do acknowledge , and bear witness to , who are members of his body , which is his Church . Richard Hubberthorne . George Fox the younger . London , 23. day 4. Moneth 1660. Antichristianism reproved , and the Doctrine of Christ and his Apostles justified against Swearing . In Answer to John Tombs's six Propositions for the lawfulness of Swearing . All which Propositions are both aga●nst Christ and his Apostles Doctrine , as is here pro●ed according to the Scriptu●es : For the satisfaction of all tender Consciences . Because of Oaths the Land mourns , Hos. 4 And ( as saith the Prophet ) every one that sweareth , shall be cut off , Zach. 5.3 . The Epistle . John Tombs , IS it not a shame for thee , who art called a Baptist , thus to manifest thy self , and divide thy self from thy own people ? Hast thou not taught people to swear , first one way , and then another ? Did ever any of the Apostles so in the Primitive times ? But on the contrary , that people should not swear at all . And why dost thou bring the Scripture that was spoken to the Jews , and apply it to the Christians ? And why dost thou bring the Scripture where the Angel sware , but brings not the Scripture which saith , All Angels must worship the Son who saith , Swear not at all ? So is not this like Antichrist , and Anti Apostle , that preaches up that which Christ and the Apostles denied , as in Mat. 5. James 5. And whereas thou saist in thy Epistle , that thy writing is short and indigested ; in that thou hast said truly , for how can they that fear God digest it , seeing it is so contrary unto Christ and the Apostles Doctrine ? And so both thou and it are become an ill savour to God and them that love him ; but thou shalt be rewarded according to thy work . But God hath made thee manifest , who hatst so long been hiding thy self under so many false coverings , but now art discovered , that thou shouldst no more deceive the Nation . R. H. But on the contrary , from the Scripture it is proved , that the Believers and Christians are not to swear at all ; Therefore to them that are in Christ Jesus no Oath is lawful . WE read in the Scriptures of truth , Matt. 5.19 . That whosoever breaketh the least commandment , and teacheth men so , he shall be least ( or not at all ) in the Kingdom of God. But we do find some men , especially John Tombs breaking the commands of Christ , and teaching men so , therefore he is guilty of that judgment : but to the first proposition which is this : That some swearing is lawful . His proofs are these : That which is not de toto genere , in its whole kind evil , may be lawful ; but swearing is not de toto genere , or in its whole kind evil therefore some swearing may be lawful . Answ. This argument is thus disproved . To break any of Christs commands , or to deny the Apostles Doctrine , is de toto genere , in its whole kind evil ; but to swear at all by any Oath is to break the command of Christ , and to deny the Apostles doctrine , as Mat. 5.35 , 36 , 37. and Jam. 5.12 . Therefore to swear at all is not lawful , but evil , according to Christ and the Apostles Doctrine and in the state of condemnation , Jam 5. Again John Tombs concluding that his major is manifest of it self , goes To prove this minor thus . That is not wholly evil about the use of which some Directions are given by God ; but God giveth directions about the use of swearing , as Jer. 4.2 . And thou shalt swear the Lord liveth in truth and judgment and righteousness ; ergo . Answ. By the same argument may it as well be proved that the Christians and believers in ●hrist may be circumcised , offer incense , burnt-offerings and sacrifices , because for the use of it God gave some directions , and therefore it is lawful : but as circumcision , incense , burnt-offerings and sacrifices of the Law is ended in Christ , so is the Oaths which was among the Jews in him ended also to the Believers , and by him forbidden : for it was said of old time , Thou shalt swear , and shalt perform thy oath to the Lord ; but Christ in the 5. of Mat. makes mention of the Jews oath which God gave once directions for , yet saith he , Swear not at all ; here Christ puts an end not onely to frivolous and vain oaths , but to the true oaths which the Jews was once commanded of God to swe●r ; for these oaths are they which Christs words hath relation to ; for he came to end the Jews worships and oaths , who is the oath of God ; Christ the truth and righteousness of God saith , Swear not at all , which ends the Jews , which was to swear in truth and righteousness . 2 Argument . That which is approved by God is lawful ; but some swearing is approved by God , Psal. 63.11 . Every one that sweareth by God shall glory ; ergo . Answ. That Scripture Psal. 63.11 . saith thus , but the King shall rejoyce in God ; every one that sweareth by him shall glory ; but the mouth of them that speak lyes shall be stopped . This was spoken of David the Anointed of God , who was in that covenant of the Law , wherein he might swear in truth and righteousness , that oath , As the Lord liveth , and as my soul liveth ; but there was some in that time , which if they used that Oath , the Lord liveth , surely they swear falsly , Jer. 5.2 . But what is that to the Christians under the new Covenant who are under Christs command , who saith , Swear not at all , neither by that oath which David and the Jews swore by , nor any other oath ? but if upon any occasion they were required to testifie their obedience whether they would be subject to such or such things , their answer was to be yea or nay , and to keep their words ; which is more then the hypocrites and hireling Priests in these times hath done by their oaths ; for this we have good experience of , that such as do now plead to swear for a thing , hath sworn against the same thing , and do now preach against that which they have preached for , so that they will preach , pray , or swear any thing for their belly , and for filthy lucre ; and the oath which David was to swear in truth and righteousness who called Christ Lord , he that was Davids Lord and glory saith , Swear not at all , who hath all power and glory . Again , whereas John Tombs instanceth Abraham , Isaac , David , Solomon , Elijah , Micah , Elisha , the women of Shunem , and Itai , Uriah , and Samuel , &c. their swearing and entring into covenant to be examples for swearing . Answ. All these were under the first covenant , and was in that which Christ called the old time , Mat. 5. and proves nothing that Christians in the new covenant should swear ; for although Abraham swore , and Solomon swore , yet Christ which was before Abraham , and greater then Solomon , saith , Swear not at all ; and although David swore , ye● he was Davids Lord which said , Swear not a● all ; and though the Angels swore by him that liveth for ever , yet Christ unto whom all the Angels shall bow and worship , saith , Swear not at all ; so that all these arguments and Scriptures doth not prove that it is lawful for the Believers and Christians to swear at all , but it is Tombs ignorance in his applying Scripture in disobeying Christs command . Again , To prove swearing lawful John Tombs saith that Paul put an oath on the Thessalonians , 1 Thess. 5.27 . which words are these , I charge you by the Lord that this Epistle be read unto all the holy brethren : Now saith Tombs the Greek word transl●ted I charge you by the Lord , is , I put the Lords oath on you , or swear you that this Epistle be read to all the holy brethren ; a like charge are 1 Tim. 6.13 . 2 Tim. 4.1 . &c. Answ. This is the long and thick mist of darkness which hath been long kept over the understandings of people , that when the plain Scripture will not prove their ends and intents , then they tell people it is otherwise in the Greek , or Hebrew ; did not the Translator of the Bible understand Greek as well as John Tombs ? or are we not to believe the Scripture as it speaks , till again it be translated by him ? but lest he should be wise in his own eys , as it is in the Greek it is here set down , that all that can read and understand it , may judge whether Paul did put an Oath upon them , or did swear them to read that Epistle to the brethren . As 1 Thess. 5.27 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that is , I oblige or charge you in the presence of God , &c. Not , I put the Lords oath upon you , or swear you , as John Tombs saith ; for if they did read the Epistle among the brethren , then his obligation or charge to them was fulfilled ; but seeing John Tombs saith he swore them , he might have declared in what manner they were sworn , seeing Paul was at Athens when he wrote to Thessalonica . Again he saith the like charge is in 1 Tim. 6.13 . which according to the Greek he would make an oath ; the words are these , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that is , I enjoyn or command thee before God , not a putting an oath upon them , or causing them to swear , as John Tombs saith . Again , he saith there is the like charge ( or oath ) put upon them in 2 Tim. 4.1 . which in the Greek is thus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; that is , I charge thee in the presence of God , &c. Not that he took him sworn , or put an oath upon him , that the should preach the word but did charge him to be instant in season ▪ and out of season in his Ministery . Again John Tombs saith in the times of the Gospel Paul used this Oath 2 Cor. 1.8 . But as God is true , &c. Answ. Now those that mind this Scripture may see that Paul doth onely justifie Christs words in keeping to yea and nay , saying that with him it was not yea and nay ; for saith he , ver . 18. but as God is true , our word toward you was not yea and nay , and ver . 19. for the Son of God , Jesus Christ , who was preached among you by us , even by me and Sylvanus and Timotheus , was not yea and nay for all the promises of God in him are yea , and in him Amen . So that ; this Scripture is so far from bringing people to Oaths and swearing that he labours to bring them all to yea and nay in all things , and so to Christ the substance , in whom all the promises of God are yea ; so that the Apostle might well use these vvords , That as God vvas true , &c. so also vvere they true to their yea and nay , the end of all oaths ; other Scripture Tombs bring to prove the Apostles did swear , as Rom. 1.9 . and 9.1 . Gal. 1.20 Phil. 1.8 . Answ. As to the first , Rom. 1.9 . where the Apostle saith , for God is my witness whom I serve with my spirit in the Gospel of hi● Son , that without ceasing I make mention of you alwayes in my prayers ; is this a proof for men to swear and take oathes either for men or against men ? hath not the man here lost the understanding of a man ? thus to compare and call this the Apostles oath when he takes God to witness that he prayes for the Saints continually ; and his saying in Rom. 9 1. I speak the truth in Christ , I lye not , my conscience also bearing me witness in the holy Ghost , that I have great heavinesse , and continual sorrow in my heart &c , and Gal. 1.20 . where the Apos●le saith . Now the things that I write unto you , behold before God I lye not , is this an oath to testifie the truth of his writings against lyes ? indeed this we desire that John Tombs and the rest of the Priests in this Nation would write nothing but what God would witness unto the truth of , and that they would speak truth before God and not lye ; then they would not thus abuse the Apostles words , and plead for swearing from them , when as the Apostles intend no such thing in their words here asserted : and whereas it is again said that the Apostle took and oath . Ph●l . 1.8 . where he saith for God is my record how greatly I long after you in the bowels of Jesu● Christ. Now let all honest and sober-hearted men consider whether the truth of God and the Apostles that speak it forth be not abused , that from a novice that is lifted up in pride , and that would do or say any thing for his hire , he should bring those Scripture to plead for swearing and that lawfulnesse of oathes , in all which the Apostle took God to witnesse his love to the Saints and labour in the work of his ministry , signifying to all that understand how that he spoke the truth and did not lye , and kept to his yea and nay according to Christs doctrine ( and did not swear at all . ) Now further to prove swearing Lawful , John Tombs brings This fifth argument . That which hath a necessary use for the benefit of humane society is not unlawfull ; but some swearing hath a necessary use for the benefit of humane society ; ergo . Answ This argument is thus disproved , and both the major and minor , to be false . For to break any command of Christ is of no necessary use for humane society ; but to swear any oath is to break his command ; ergo . For Godlines● is profitable unto all men , in all their societies ; bat he that swears goes from Godlin●sse into ungodlinesse and trangression , which trangression is of no use nor service amongst Christians ; so that John Tombs might as well have thus stated his Argument , that to break Christs command is of benefit to humane society , therefore to break Christs command is lawfull &c. and might thus have proved it , that exc●pt we break Christs command , we cannot preach for hire nor sue men at the Law for tythes , nor live in pride , ease , and vanity , nor keep our places of profit , and benefit , which is necessary for our society ( of Priests ) ergo . But we whose eyes God hath opened , do see that all his book tends to the perswading of people to swear , when Christ hath said Swear not at all , and that which he now would swear for , again ; he vvould svvear against for the same advantage & profit vvhich he hath in his eye ; yea or he vvould persvvade all men not to svvear and bring Scripture to prove it upon the same account , so that vvhat he doth in this kind is because of advantage : for tvvo years since he did not preach this doctrine nor vvrite those arguments . Novv it being proved that the follovvers of Christ , and believers in him are not to svvear at all , then all those promissory oaths upon vvhich John Tombs hath grounded his other propositions , is not to be taken : But again to prove an oath of supremacy to King Cesar , he brings the example and rule of Christ , and argues thus , If the Lord Christ in the dayes of his flesh did ackovvledge Cesar as supreme Governor in his dominions , and did subject himself to his jurisdiction in ansvvering before the Roman Deputy , and vvas obedient to his parents real or supposed ; then all Christians even the highest Ecclesiastical Prelate should be subject to the King as supreme Governor in his Dominions ; and for proof of this he brings Mat. 22 21. vvhen the Pharisees shevved sus the Tribute money , Christ bid them Give unto Cesar that vvhich vvas Cesars , & unto God the things that are Gods ; so then it vvas the tribute money that vvas due to Cesar : but doth this prove that Christ did swear , or vvas any example of svvearing to Cesar , or account C●sar the head of the Church & Ruler in Ecclesiastical things ? so that this Scripture proves the contrary then for that which thou brings it ; for those Pharisees that brought the money to Christ , said they knew that be respected no mans person , but taught the way of God in Truth ; so then if Christ be our example and rule in this , then to the supream King or Kings we must not respect their persons , but give them their due , which is that tribute wh●ch hath their own superscription upon it ; and we must teach the way of God in Truth , & give unto God the things which are Gods , which is all honour , glory , and rule in spiritual matters , and give to Ch●ist alone the pr●heminence , which is head of his body which is his Church , and we must not swear at all , neither for nor against any man ; for Christ did not swear neither for nor against Cesar , and we must live peaceably with all men , nor envy nor fight for nor against any man ; and this is quite contrary to what Jo. Tombs would perswade people , or to what he understands from the Scripture , which would make people believe that Christ was an example of the oath of supremacy to Cesar , so that people may well be blind & ignorant who hath such Teachers . But we also shall follow the example of Christ , as 1. Tim. 6 ; 13. who did witnesse a good confession before Po●tius Pilate ; and this is a good confession before any King or Ru●er now to say that we have obeyed the Truth from our heart , and have not broken the Commands of Christ by swearing for , or against any ; neither have we transgrest the example of Christ in respecting any mans person , neither do we in our hearts envy any man , King , Ruler , or people , but hath love even to our enemies , and can do good to them that hate us , and can pray for them that persecute us , and do desire and daily labour that all men might come to the knowledge of the Truth , that they might be saved . And this good Confession we can witnesse before the King , or any in Authority , and say that God is our witnesse , and our Conscience also bears us witnesse in the sight of God , as the Apostle did , and we can say also that we speak the Truth before God , and lye not ; for our eyes is not blinded with gifts and rewards , neither have we taken Oath , Covenants , nor Protestations for Parties , Powers , or Religions , but since we knew the way of Christ , we have walked in it , and kept to his Commandement & Oath , which is yea & nay in all things , & so have not entred in condemnation with those that are given to change ; but the unchangeable Priest , the unchangeable Covenant , and unchangeable Law hath been our Rule , and of this we need not be ashamed , but in Gods power and Authoritie can we hold up our heads , when others do bow down their backs alwayes ( crouching under every power and change of Government ) as Davids enemies did , Psal. 69.23 . for that is their place & condition , as the Apostle doth witness , Rom. 11.10 Again Jo. Tombs saith , that Paul a Saint was subject to the judgement of Cesar and appealed to him ; then he acknowledged him supream , &c , ergo . Answ. Paul was a Prisoner for the word of God and testimony of Jesus , and appealed to Cesar for justice , because he was unjustly accused , and had not done any thing worthy of bonds or of death ; therefore according to their Law he ought to be set free ; but Paul did not call Cesar the supream head of the Church , and chief Ruler in Ecclesiastical things ; for if Cesar had been the supream head of the Church of which Paul was a member , he would have needed but little appealing unto for setting of him at liberty ; but in such Arguments as Tombs hath used , is manifest the ignorance of foolish men , wherein their folly appears to all men , as the Scripture saith , 2 Tim. 3.9 . And whereas thou sayest that there is holy and harmlesse Christians , and many upright soules whose Consciences are very tender , and many godly persons that have excepted against that Oath , and the lawfulness of taking of it , as fearing it may take away the liberty of their Consciences , which is dearer to them then their lives ? Ans. These that are so , are in a better condition then thy self , and to such thy ministery if received , would beget them from their holy and harmlesse state , into trangression of Christs command , and from the tendernesse of Conscience into hardnesse of heart ; and now to answer their objections thou tells them that it was imposed for excluding of the Popes jurisdiction , &c. if so , why doft thou preach it up to be imposed upon the holy , harmlesse , godly Christians , who are redeemed from the Popes power and jurisdiction , and is come into the doctrine of Christ and into the life of Christ , which is out of all such Oaths . Thou art a miserable Comforter to tender Consciences ; but thy end is seen , & therefore thou canst not deceive many ; but for those that thou hast before mentioned , who are holy , harmless upright , and godly , which are tender of an Oath ; they ought to be thy Teachers , who thy self art far from righteousness or tenderness of Conscience ; therefore for thee it is a shame to be an imposer of Oaths upon tender Consciences , who professest thy self a Minister of Christ , who did forbid all swearing ; and his Ministers did preach against it , and said , Above all things swear not at all , lest they fall into condemnatien , and not into the obedience to Christ's command ; therefore they that fear God , will turn away from such . 2 Tim. 3.5 . Now saith John Tombs , the grand objection against swearing is our Saviour words , Mat. 5.34 , 35 , 36 , 37. and Jam. 5.12 . which words ( saith he ) doth seem expresly and fully to forbid any swearing at all , excluding some sorts of Oaths by name , and the rest by general terms , that our communication should be yea , yea , nay , nay , and what is more , cometh of evil , or of the evil one ; yet saith he , We must of necessity find out a limitation of the speeches , as we do ; and the limitation is this , that is , frequent , vain , light , prophane , unnecessary , customary , passionate swearing , or in secular matters of no importance , in these Scriptures are forbidden . Ans. Indeed it doth plainly app●ar that thou must of necessity either disprove Chris●'s words , or else deny thy own , seeing they are contrary the one to the other ; so therefore thou saist that it was those oaths abovementioned that was forbidden by Christ and the Apostles . And I shall shew it plainly that thou hast no necessity to limit Christs words to vain and prophane swearing , ( but only that thou wouldst have thy words true , and his false ) for Christs words in Mat. 5. doth not intend such Oaths ; for he speaks of the true Oaths which was used among the Jews , and such Oaths as Christ told them they were to perform ; for it was not said in old time , that they should perform vain , light , prophane , unnecessary , customary and passionate oaths , but such as they were to perform betwixt the Lord and them , & the solemn vows & covenants which they made in old time to their Kings , and one unto another , the Christians now by the command of Christ was not to swear these Oaths , neither any Oath true nor false ; so that Christ is not to be limited to intend vain Oaths ; when as for instance , Christ mentions the Jews swearing , who was in the Commandment , who did deny all vain , customary , false , and passionate swearing ; so that Jo. Tomb's limitation is taken away , and Christs meaning must be as large as his words , which is not to swear at all by any Oath , but to keep to yea and nay in all promises , professions and engagements upon all occasions , and so to keep out of the condemnation , whereby all peoples consciences may be kept clean to the Lord in all things , and they brought to the exercise of a good Conscience ; for the Lord is now teaching his people himself , and bringing them to obey the doctrine of his Son , in which they may find peace for their souls , and not to be in bondage unto such Teachers as are given to change with every Government , who preach as the false Prophets did , for handfuls of barley , and pieces of bread , & such are they who preach the lawfulness of swearing ( or sinning ) against Christs command ; but the Lord hath made them manifest , and is redeeming his Elect and Chosen from amongst such who have made a prey upon people , and fed upon their sins , but not upon the life which the Saints was in . An Answer to a Book called , A just Defence and vindication of Gospel-Ministers and Gospel-Ordinances . Put forth by J. G. in which he pr●tends an Answ●rs to E. B's . Trya● of the Ministers , and other things against the Quakers . But on the contrary hath manifested , that he is altogether ignorant of the Gospel-Ministry and Ordinances , as will appear to him to him that reads this Answer with desire to understand the Truth , and so to receive satisfaction . And instead of clearing the truth in any particular , he hath falsly charged God , Christ , the Holy Spirit , the Primitive Churches , and the Quakers , with such thingt of which they were never any of them guilty ; as will appear in the following Testimony . Given forth from him who desires the edification and satisfaction of all in things appertaining to the Kingdom of God. R. H. Psal. 59. The Workers of iniquity have no knowledge , there is no faithfulness in their mouth , their inward part is very wickedness , and with their words they shew forth the same . WHatsoever is written or acted against the Truth , and those that walk in it , is but a fulfilling of the Scripture of Truth , which saith , The way of the wicked is darkness , and they know not at what they stumble , Prov. 4.19 . although the stumbling-stone be the Light , the Foundation of many generations , in rejection of which many go about to build , and would be approved ; one of which I shall here mention . John Gaskin , who would defend and vindicate the Priests , their Preaching , Practice and Maintenance , though contrary unto Christ , his Apostles , his Light , and his Words declared in Scripture , as will appear . And first , That his Testimony may be received , he begins in an appearance of feigned humility , and begging of Pardon for his sl●ps and impertinencies , and rudeness of stile used against the Quakers , saying , his work is not with Eloquence nor Humane Arts. In the examination of which , we do find that he hath often slipped , and used much impertinency of speech , and rudeness of stile , and neither Eloquence , Spirituality , or true Humanity in his Works ; many of which being so plainly seen to all , is accounted not worth printing again : But something here is mentioned , by which all the other may be compared and judged . Again , divers Reasons are alledged as a cause of printing J.G. his defence of the Priests : First he saith , The great malice and envy against the Ministers , and the many Letters and printed Books sent by Quakers , and the great growth and encrease in Errors ; and because many of his old Friends and Acquaintance are ( as he saith ) seduced from the Church ; and to strengthen such as are wavering through ignerance and weakness , and to clear himself , &c. and that it might be seen , and come into many hands . Ans. He that would accomplish those things before-named , to wit , subdue malice , envy and error , and instruct the ignorant and him that is out of the way , and strengthen the weak , he must be such a one as is led by the Spirit , and walks in the Light of Christ , which is so much hated and contemned by Priests & their defenders , that first those things may be subdued in themselves , and then minister against them in others ; but none of those things can be done by that spirit which hath ruled in J.G. but that his latter reasons which he saith moved him to print , may be fulfilled , that is , that it may be seen , and come into many hands , & that to thy own shame , when they read and consider thy unlearned Logick , wherein thou goest to prove , that it is not sufficient to bring us to Heaven , to be freed from sin ; for thou saist , a Horse hath no sin ; and so by thy comparison , a man without sin is but as a Horse ; so that thou hast truly said , thy work is without Eloquence or Humane Art : But seeing thou hast taken in hand to put things to publike view , in thy next prove who those men are upon the Earth that are without sin , and are not sufficient for the Kingdom of Heaven ; and whether was it any thing that did separate man from God , but sin ? And was not Christ only made manifest to take away sin ? And is not man perfectly righteous when his sin is t●ken away , & made the righteousness of God in him , which takes it away , to wit , the Lamb of God , which all the Nations of them that are saved , must walk in his Light ? and it is those that hate the Light , & i● against freedom from sin , that have no understanding of the mysteries of God , which is like the horse or mule , whose mouth must be held with bit & bridle , and are like the beast that perish ; but they that are freed from sin , are not so , neither is the horse their comparison ; but herein thou hast shamed thy self & thy Ministers , that they should be so ignorant , as neither to teach thee better doctrine before thou didst write , nor correct thee when thou hadst written ; but to suffer such a thing to appear in this Nation where Light is broken forth , that the state of freedom from sin is no better then the state of a horse ; but as the Scripture saith , Your folly shall be made manifest unto all men ; Which Scripture is daily fulfilling , and we are satisfied in it . Again , to vindicate the Priests of England to be Ministers of the gospel , thou bringst many Scriptures , whereby thou wouldst prove them to be lawfully called , though they be out of the power of God , and want the power of that which they teach , p. 7. As the sons of Eli ( thou saist ) were lawful Priests , though they were wicked men ; and this is a fit comparison , as thou may read in the first of Samuel 2.12 . Now the sons of Eli were sons of Belial , they knew not the Lord ; and so according to this thou hast rightly compared the Priests ; for though they have the name of being called , yet know they the Lord no more then the sons of Belial , did . Again in the same page thou saist , The Scribes and Pharisees were called to teach , and Judas was a true Apostle ; from which thou wouldst prove the call of the Priests to be a true call to the ministry . Answ. If the Priests did minister as truly as the Scribes and Pharisees did , that is , read or speak the Scriptures truly ; then thou mightest exhort the people to do as the Priests say , but not to do as they do ; but seeing that they do not truly speak the Scripture , but by consequences pervert it , as thou hast done in thy book , it is not therefore a good doctrine to bid the people either do as they say , or as they do , because they both say falsly and do falsly . And as for thy comparing of them to Judas , as for his being called , and receiving part of the Ministry ; that they are not like unto him in , because as yet they have no part nor lot in that matter ; but for his treachery and covetousness , bearing the bag , and betraying the Lord of Life for pieces of money , in that they may be compared to him . But thou saist , The wickedness of the person doth not disannul his Office , being lawfully called thereunto ; until he be degraded from that Office : And to prove it , thou bringst several Scriptures , as Ezek. 34.3 . where the Shepherds eat the fat , and cloath with the wool , and did not feed the Flock , Isa 56.10 , 11. They are dumb dogs , that cannot bark , sleeping , lying down , loving to slumber , they all look to their own way , every one for his gain from his Quarter ; Come ye , say they , I w●ll fetch Wine , and we will fill our selves with strong drink , and to morrow shall be as this day , and much more abundant . And these saist thou , were truly called . From which example your Ministers , as thou thus provest , are lawfully called to the work of the Ministry ; but when these Ministers and people read thy book , they wil not much commend thee for such a defence for them ; but how dost thou prove that those before mentioned were lawfully called unto the work of the Ministry , being wicked persons ? but when thou read'st the Scripture over again , thou maist see that those are such as the Lord said did run , & he sent them not ; and said the Lord saith , when he had not spoken unto them , Jer. 14.14 . Now in this Vindication thou hast not done any thing of that pretended confuting E.B. his Book , called , A jusl and lawful Tryal of the Ministers and Teachers of this age ; but hast rather confirmed it ; for he truly compared them unto those spoken of before-mentioned ; and thou hast compared them as to the sons of Eli , which were sons of Belial , & knew not God ; and so his Book yet stands in force ( for a tryal to such ) unanswered . And again , as for thy pleading for tythes for such as are like the sons of Belial , thou hast no precept , practice nor example in Scripture to plead for such a thing , neither as such , nor as the Ministers of Christ. And whereas thou mention'st Acts 4. and Acts 5. and 1 Cor. 9.4.5 , &c. These Scriptures speak nothing of tythes , nor of any Maintenance to the Ministry , but only how that when they had planted a Vinyard , they might eat of the fruit ; and when they had gathered a Flock , might eat of the Milk ; & when they had sown spiritual things ( amongst a people ) they had power to eat , and power to drink ; and so it was ordained that they who preached the Gospel , should live of the Gospel ; but it was not ordained that those who preached the Gospel , should live by forced maintenance , or by making merchandize of mens Goods & Estates ; of which the Priests in England for which thou writest this defence , are guilty . Again , thou goest about to defend the Priests sprinkling of Infants , saying , It is a sign or seal of salvation , page 64. Ans. If this be true , that all children thus sprinkled with water , have the seal of salvation by the resurrection of Jesus Christ , and are by this baptism made partakers of Grace , and united into the Church as Members of the Church , why do you say both Priests & Professors , that there is no falling f●om grace ? Have not many been so engrafted into the Church , & received that seal , whom you now call Hereticks and Deceivers ? Why do you so confound one principle with another ? For we have been already so engrafted into the visible Church , and made partakers of that Grace which you say it 's impossible to fall from . And thou bring'st Calvins words , which saith , That although there be but a little water cast upon our heads , yet notwithstanding it is not a vain figure ; for the Heavens are opened upon us , and God speaks in it , as it were from Heaven , and Christ is there present with his blood , as Witnesses of the usage and operation of the Sacrament ; and saith , Baptism is a token and proof of our cleansing , or a seal and character whereby God confirmeth unto us that all our sins are cancelled and abolished , and that they may never be rehearsed nor imputed . So then by this , he that hath a little water cast on his head , he hears God speak in it , & Christ being present with his blood , washes away all sin , and this is a proof of his cleansing . So why dost thou and the Priests speak and write against us as being fallen from Grace , and departed from the Truth , seeing we have received as wel as you , the seal of the Covenant , and proof of cl●ansing , and cannnot fa●l from it ; if your doctrine be true ? But as for sprinkling Infants , thou hast not brought one Scripture to prove it ; but saist , Baxter against Tombs hath proved it ; and quotest Calvin and Beza , as if their words were plainer proof for thy purpose than any Scripture ; for there is no Scripture ( without invented consequences ) that is a precept for it ; and when thou hast wearied thy self , & canst not prove it , thou saist , whatsoever may be proved from the Scripture by consequence , to be the scope and meaning of the Scripture , is sufficient proof , p. 73. Again , thou askest us a question , To shew thee one command or example in the Scripture for the baptizing of those that are grown up ▪ whose Parents one or both were Christians by professing the Gospel of Christ. Ans. If thou knew the Scriptures , or didst weigh thy own words , it would stop thee from asking such foolish and unlearned Questions ; for thou self thy confessest , that those which were grown up , were baptized , and that they had also received the holy Ghost before they were baptized ; and as for them or their Parents being called Christians by their profession , many believers were baptized and followed Christ , before the Name Christian was given to them , as thou maist read Acts 11.26 . that after much people was gathered , and so became Churches , they were first called Christians at Antioch ; so whatsoever their Parents were called by profession , that is nothing to that which thou art about to prove , ( sprinkling of Infants . ) But to conclude thy proof for Infants Baptism , thou quotest Rob. Brook , who ( thou saist ) hath read more Ecclesiastical Histories to find out the rise and beginning of the baptism of Infants in the Church of Christ , then all the Quakers ; and yet he could never find the beginning of it . So here all this while thou hast pleaded for that which thou knowest not who was the first Author of ; and so thou hast run out thy self into meer ignorance ; but that thou maist be informed and made wiser then thy Teachers , and thy learned Readers of Ecclesiastical Histories , I shall shew thee the beginning of that Baptism , and who first invented holy Water : In the reign of Pope Alexander , was holy Water first invented , Water mixed with Salt ; and by the saying of these words , We bless water mixed with Salt among the People , that all men sprinkled therewith may be sanctified and purified ; and this we command all Priests to do , as Pliny writeth . And herby thou mayest know the first Father or Inventer of this your practice , the Pope , and not the Apostles ; so when thou writes again , do not so undervalue all the Quakers , as thou hast done in this thy Book , as to say that they dare not read Latine Books , nor have read Histories ; and thou saist we count it a sin for Ministers to learn Latine ; but these are but false aspersions ; for we do not account it sin to learn Latine , Greek or Hebrew ; neither are we afraid to read them ; but we do so far read and know them , that we have found out the Priests deceit , by pretending that of the Tongues which they had not ; and though you preach and practice that which you know not where it had its beginning , yet vve knovv hovv deceit came in , and how it hath overspread you with darkness and ignorance ; and because you see not , therefore you judge us to be blind ; but the Light of knowledge is arisen , in which we see before the Pope his holy Water mingled with Salt , or sprinkling Infants was ; and see the beginning and end of those dark inventions ; and our Doctrine and Principles tend to the bringing of people to know a true living Foundation for all their practices ; and that the darkness of Popery and traditions of men may not always keep people in blindness , to practice the Popes inventions instead of the Apostles and Christ's Doctrine , who by the bright shining of his Light is leading people to his baptism , which is by one spirit into one body , by fire and by the holy Ghost ; & such can no longer be kept in that which doth not so much as wash away the filth of the flesh ; but comes to the answer of a good conscience , & witnesseth the baptism which saveth , as the Apostle Peter saith , 1 Pet. 3.21 . & such are come to the washing of regeneration , and renewing of the Holy Ghost . Again , to fill up thy book , thou hast charged many false things upon us , & so findst thy self work , by enlarging thy lyes one after another . As first thou sayest some of us have affirmed that Christ did never arise from the grave , and that his body is rotted within the grave , and that some of us have made a mock of his Doctrine of Justification , by the imputation and the intercession of Christ. Answ. These things are thy own , and were never affirmed by any of us ; but on the contrary , that Christ is arisen from the dead , and is become our first fruits , and by the imputation and intercession are we justified , and of God is he made unto us Justification and life . Again thou sayst , we neither know nor understand what your Ministers preach . Ans. Yes , we both know and understand that they preach lyes in the name of the Lord , and we know and understand that thou art going about to make a defence and vindication for them in so doing . Again thou sayst the Quakers say , it matters not whether a man do any good works , seeing they make him not good , pag. 41. Ans. This is false , for none of the Quakers ever said so ; for our goodness is of the Lord , and not of works ; and because we have received goodness and mercy from him , therefore do we those things that please him , and are obedient to his will and commands . Again , pag. 43. that we say a man is saved by hearkning to the light within him and obeying the same . Ans. We never said that by hearkning or obeying , that man is saved ; but by him which they are to hear and obey are they saved ; and without hearkning to his voyce , and obeying of him to whom he is preached , there is no salvation . Again , pag. 47. Thou sayest the Quakers in stead of blessing and praying for their Enemies , curse them . Answ. This is false , for we bless , and curse not ; but all cursed practises , words and actions we testifie against , and for this cause are we accounted thy enemies , because we tell thee the truth . Again , pag. 48. Thou sayst instead of abhorring our selves , we justifie our selves . Answ. This is of the number of the rest , a false accusation ; for self is that which we bear witness against in all , justifying nothing but what God justifieth , and cond●mning nothing but what God condemneth . Again pag. 49. Thou saist the Quakers are so proud to think and say they are more perfect then the Apostle Paul. Answ. When did any of the Quakers say , they were more perfect then the Apostle ? but it seems thy tongue is at liberty to make a refuge for the Priests , and fill a volume of paper with lyes . Again pag. 51. thou saist , that many of the Quakers go up and down naked to manifest that they are as perfect as Adam was in Innocency . Answ. Their going naked is as a sign unto thee and the Priests , whom the Lord is stripping of the sheeps cloat●ing , that all may see your shame and nakedness , and that which you have been covered with is but as leaves , and a formal National profession of God , without his life , power , or spirit , and you must be as naked from this covering , before you be innocent , as ever any Quaker hath been from their cloathes . Again pag. 56 , 57. thou saist that we do condemn not onely the Churches now in being , but all that ever have been ; the Churches of Asia , Corinth , Galatia , and Thessalonica , &c. Ans. This is but an addition to thy former lyes , for those Churches we do own , and all such as do walk in their life , and are guided by their spirit ; for the Church of the Thessalonians was in God , 1 Thess. 1. but thou hast appeared to be of another spirit , and hast manifested thy self to be a condemner of those Churches , as well as of us , as in page 55. thou saist in the Church at Corinth that there was such corrupt members among them , as you can scarce find in the worst of your Congregations . So of that which thou falsly chargest us , thou art truly guilty thy self , and so hast condemned those Churches , and justified your selves : But what corruption was it that was so bad in those Churches , that is not in the worst of your Congregations ? Again , as a proof for thy condemning your own Churches , thou brings Brightmans words , saying , Behold whatsoever is first , that is true ; and whatsoever is later , that is false , ch . 3. p. 113. So that hereby , by thy old Author and Logick , thou hast proved all your Churches in England to be false ; for the Churches of Asia , Corinth , Galatia , and Thessalonica , these were the first ; but the Churches in England , Episcopal and Presbytery , these are later , therefore false . Again pag. 60. Thou saist , the Quakers say they are so perfect that they cannot grow in knowledge nor grace . Answ. The Quaker● never said so , but on the contrary , we do grow in knowledge and in grace , whereby we see , and comprehend , how thou and the Priests do grow in rage , enmity , and false accusations against us ; and we know also , that you must fulfil your measure of iniquity , and that all manner of evil must be spoken against us falsly , and so we are satisfied , because we suffer not for evil doing , but for well doing . Again , p. 61. Thou chargest us not to obey the commands of Christ , but dost teach men to break his commands , twice in one page , and again in the next page . Answ. All which doth but prove and manifest thy unbridled tongue , under which is the poyson of Asps ; but if thou , or any other could in meekness or simplicity prove that we have eith●r broken any of his commands , or taught others to break them ; then we would be convinced , and thou shouldst be counted a Reprover and Instructer in righteousness ; but on the contrary , we see that bitterness and a lying spirit hath possessed thee , and that thou onely invents and imagines false things to fill up thy book , which we were never guilty of , which never any sober man , that had but the parts of a man , would never lay to our charge , seeing that both our principles and practices witnesseth to the contrary . Again , to make thy Volume large , in p. 82. thou bringst the same lyes over again , charging us to say , That we are more fuller of the Spirit then the Apostles , and of more knowledge , and stronger in faith then the Apostles . Which affirmation is thy own , and not ours ; and therefore is returned back to be condemned where it did arise . In p. 83. thou saist , the Quakers will have no Order ; and p. 84. thou saist , We are wise in our own conceit , and that we think our selves wiser then Christ or his Apostles , or Churches . All which is but multiplying lyes , and so not worth much speaking unto , but onely that people may see , how thou hast run out thy self till thou hast no order over thy tongue nor over thy pen , which hast been so long time , as above half a year , in adding lye unto lye , to make a defence for the Priests ; and so it appears that Truth will not defend them ; and thy defence of lyes will not long defend them ; for God will sweep away the refuge of lyes ; and he that loveth and telleth a lye ( as thou hast done ) hath no part in the Kingdom of God. In pag. 94. thou accusest Sarah Blackborow as concerning a woman speaking in the Church , as if she had said that the flesh was the woman ; from which thou concludest , that then the flesh must be married to Christ , and so wouldst make up absurdities from thy own words . Answ. This is thy ordinary way of proving Errour ; first to affirm a lye of thy own making , charging it upon another , and then draw a conclusion , answering this lye : but Sarah Blackborow nor any other of the Quakers have ever said that the flesh was the woman : but that which Sarah Blackborow said , was , that the flesh was to be silent ; and that which spoke in thee was that which was silly , and was ever learning ; but when any doth pray or prophesie , whether man or woman , and speak forth that which God hath made manifest ; that is the spirit of the Father in both , and is not to be quenched ; for there is neither male nor female , but all is one in Christ and in the Spirit , from which preaching and prophesying proceeds ; and the promise is that daughters as well as sons shall prophesie : and in the Church at Corinth they might all prophesie one by one , that all might hear , and all might be edified ; but thou saist , those women that did prophesie , it was not in the Church ; where then did they prophesie , if not in the Church ? or what was the Church ? for it is written , 1 Thess. 1.1 . that the Church is in God. And where must a woman be when she prays or prophesies , if not in the Church which is in God ? And where was it that Philips four daughters prophesied , whether in the Church or out of it ? and where was it that Priscilla did minister , whether in the Church or out of it ? and Pheba a servant of the Church , whether she might not pray nor prophesie in it ? and Priscilla , who was a helper of Paul in Christ , and laboured with him in the Gospel , Rom. 16. might not pray or prophesie in the Church ? But now to speak the truth in plainness to thee , that which thou cavell'st against , it is not the woman nor the man , simply considered , but it is the Spirit speaking in either , which thou canst not bear ; for where the Spirit of the Father speaks in man or woman , thou setst thy self against it to oppose it . And thou saist Susan Bond said , Christ was the husband , and of him they were to ●e taught ; and thou saist , Sarah Blackborow did like the answer well . Answ. Who could like it ill ? was not that a good answer ? And thou thy self must own Christ to be thy Teacher , and learn of him before ever God will make use of thee in his service or work , though the Priests may make use of thee for their defender . Again pag. 99. thou saist , we deny that any should either rule in the Church , or have any honour . Answ. No , We do not deny the Head of the Church , which is Christ , to rule and to have all the honour ; but we deny any Priest to bear rule by his means , or to receive the honour due unto Christ ; for we see they are such as seek honour of one another , and not the honour which belongs to God onely . Now whereas-thou goes about to vindicate that wicked men may sing Psalms , and to prove it makes this argument , If any be merry , let him sing Psalms ; now wicked men are merry as well as godly , though they have no true cause , Ergo , pag. 87 Ans. This Logick doth but prove thy own ignorance and darkness , and not the thing intended by thee , as we shall shew ; but first to answer thee with thy own contradiction ; Dost thou not say in the next words before this argument , that the chief ground ( or cause ) is the moral duty lying upon all men by the commandment of God ? now if wicked men do sing Psalms by the commandment of God , do they do it without a true cause ? Is not the commandment of God a true cause of any action to them which are commanded by him ? But in this thou art but building again that which thou hast destroyed , and so mak●● thy self a transgressour , and so let thy own confusion correct thee . In the same page thou saist , Thou wilt make good what thou hast written by Scripture ; Come then , here we shall try thee ; Where in the Scripture dost thou prove that wicked men may be merry and sing Psalms , though they have no true cause ? but on the contrary hast thou not read in the Scriptures , Ps. 69. that David was the song of the Drunkards ? and if drunkards now in Taverns and Alehouses say and sing , I am not puft in mind , I have no scornful eye ; and say , that as a weaned child they have behaved themselves ; by thy argument , if they be never so wicked , yet because they are merry in their wickedness , they may sing lyes in the name of the Lord ; and by thy argument be Justified as men doing onely that which God had commanded them . And again thou maist read in Scripture Joel . 1 , ●5 . that such wicked men and drunkards were called to weep and howl ; for their misery was coming upon them ; so the Prophet did not call them to sing Davids Psalms , because they were merry in their wickedn●sse as thou hast done ; and again thou mayst read Amos 8.3 . That the Songs of the Temple shall be turned into howling ; and these wicked men in the Temple were merry , and by argument might sing P●alms or spirituall Songs ; but the Prophet saith instead of singing they must howl , and come to bitter lamentation , and praise is not comely in the mouth of Fools , as the wise man saith who is taught of God , but the mouth of a Fool poureth forth his folly , and the instruction of Fools is folly , Pro. 16.22 . And this Scripture we see fulfilled in thee , for thy instructing of Fools and wicked men , because they are merry in their wickednesse , they may sing Psalms as a Co●mand from God , and herein I have answer'd a fool according to his folly , least he should be wise in his own conceit ; and although David calleth all Gods host , and all living things made and created to praise the Lord , the Sun , Moon , and Stars , the Heavens , and the Waters , the Earth , the Dragons , and the Deeps , Fire , Haile , Snow , and Vapor , Stormes and Wind fulfilling his word , Mountains and Hills , and fruitfull Trees , all beasts , Cattle , Creeping things , and flying Fowles , Kings of the Earth , and all People , &c. And now as David wa● in the Covenant , he saw the Creatures as they stood in their Covenant , uncorrupted ; and so in a fit capacity to praise the Lord , only man degenerated and unrestored again into the Covenant , he saw it was not comely for him to praise , nor to pray , nor to take Gods word in his mouth , nor to speak of his Statutes ; so far from Justifying thy Argument , that wicked men because they are merry , therefore may sing Psalmes : but when the Priests or people takes notice of thy book , and what Logick thou hast learned to justify the wicked in their singing , as well as the godly , and how thou hast shamed both thy self and them with such foolish confusion , and University Logick , its like they will set thee no more a work , to defend and vindicate them with such weapons . Again page . 89. thou saist , that it is said by the Prophet Prov. 21.4 , that the ploughing of the Ploughman is sin . Answ. Here thou kast belyed the Prophet , and perverted his words a● thou hast done the Quakers : for the Prophets words is an high look , and a proud heart , and the ploughing of the wicked is sin , but he doth not say that the ploughing of the Ploughman is sin ; But who can escape the envy of sl●ndrous tongues , which accounteth lying no sin , if thereby they can accomplish their own wicked end ? but the truth hath found thee out and made thee manifest ▪ and the Priests had better wanted thy defence , then to be so shamed by it , as they will be unless they deny both thee and it . Again , in the same page thou saist , to hear , read , pray , sing Psalms and giving of thanks , they are works morally good being Commanded by the Lord : but the person doing them , being not justified , they are not good to him : for whatsoever is not of Faith , is sin . Answ. This is another piece of confusion , and charging of God foolishly and fasly , to say that the Lord commands those things to be done ▪ and those he commands to doe them , in doing of which it is not good to them but sin . Where hast thou learned ? or where dost thou read of such a doctrine , that wicked men are commanded of God , to do such things , which in doing is not good to them but sin ? Is God or Christ then the Minister of sin , or commands a man to commit sin ? Is not this Blasphemy and Error in the highest degree ? And how darest thou speak of God , or of his Commands , or of his obedience , seeing thou thus Blasphems him in his Worship ? but this shall remain as a Testimony against thee ; many other lyes and abominations hast thou spoken against us , and against God and his Truth ; a few of which is sufficient to make thee manifest . In page ( 107. ) thou saist , our Quaking fits many are of opinion that they are diobolical , by a kind of witchcraft , and saist , thou hast heard strange relations of Enchanted Ribbans and giveing drink after , &c. Answ. Upon the same account many was of opinion , that Christ had a Devil & was a Deceiv●r , & that the Apostles were Ringleaders of Sects , & Heresyes , & such strange relations might have been heard concerning the Apostles in their dayes ; & it seems to thee , that such reports is sufficient proof ; but this is contrary , to what thou hast said in an other place , that thou wouldst speak nothing but according to what was written in the Scriptures ; And whereas thou tells of Enchanted Ribbans ; Is there some Ribbans that are enchanted ? it may be thou meanest enchanting Ribbans ; but if so , where didst thou ever know such a thing ? & for proofe , thou names Gilpin and Toldervyes books , which neither of them doth relate such a thing ; so that it is thy enmity and wickednesse ; for there was never any such thing among the Quakers , as giving Ribbans and drink after ; but that charge thou mightst have laid upon the Priests and their Defenders , for there are the most ribbans used , and justified , till in pride they are become the Servants of the Devill , and there is the giving of drink one to another untill they be enflamed , and made unsensible of God and of his fear , by which they are enchanted , and bewitched , that they doe not obey the Gospell , but are given up to their own hearts Lusts , and thereby are become the Servants of sin and so free from righteousnesse . Lastly , not onely we have been falsly accused in these and many other things by thee ; but even the spirit of God , which is the Fountain of cleanness , is by thee charged and accused to be corrupt , and defiled page 33. by passing through mans corrupt nature ( thou saidst ) it becomes defiled . Answ. Is not this a sin against the holy Ghost which shall never be forgiven , to charge the spirit to be corrupt and defiled ? And in this thou also chargest both the Father and the Son to be corrupt and defiled , for they are one ; so that if one of them be corrupt , the other is corrupt also ; and as the spirit is in the Saints , so is the Father in them , and the Son the hope of their glory , and none of them are defiled by mans corrupt nature . But there is that in man , by which that which corrupteth his nature is wrought out , so that man is made clean and undefiled by the spirit , and that spirit is not made corrupt and defiled by Man ; for that is contrary to the Scriptu●e , to say , that by mans nature the spirit is defiled ; but to say , that by the spirit mans nature is clensed , and sanctified , this is according to the Scripture : but it is the work of Sathan and his Messengers to Blasphem God in his Temple , and so account his spirit ( by which he leadeth into all truth ) an unholy thing ; and so thou art of the number of them which account the blood and spirit of the Covenant an unholy thing ; and we seeing and knowing these things , as concerning our selves we are satisfied , because the Servant is not above his Master ; for if the Master be called Belzebub , and the spirit a defiled or corrupt thing , well may we be called Deceivers , ( although we be true ) and falsely accused with all manner of evil , according to our Masters words , and these things we should bear in patience and silence , as to our selves , but as in respect unto others we are constrained , by the uncorrupted and undefiled Spirit of the Lords , to testifie to the world , that their deeds are evil , and to manifest the workings of Satan in the Mystery of Iniquity , which now already worketh in many , justifying the wicked , and condemning the just , which is abomination to the Lord , which his Spirit will not bear unreproved ; and not only the just men are condemned and falsly accused , but also the just , undefiled , eternal and unerring Spirit is accused by him , who makes a defence for the Priests in their unrighteous practices and Wages ; so by the plain evidence and demonstration of Truth , he being made manifest to be an Enemy to God , & by his wicked Works and Words I do judge him not worthy of much more answer to his Book ; & also I do judge him not able to prove any of the false accusations charged in it against us , some of which is herein returned unto him again ; vvhich vvhen he doth but really weigh it , and consider , it may be he will sit down in silence , and wait , if there may be hope of his forgiveness for this ( not only ignorance , but ) wilfulness , charging us , the Spirit of God , and his people , vvith that of vvhich they vvere never guilty ; for vve are in the Truth , unto vvhich every tongue shall confess , and by vvhich every Opposer shall become silent before the Lord ; & in the Spirit of this Truth do vve desire not the destruction , but the repentance and forgiveness of our Enemies : And those that do abuse us & wrong us ignorantly , their sins vvil be sooner blotted out , than those who wilfully have set their hearts and tongues to vvork vvickedness ; for they shall receive the greater condemnation . The k●●●●edge and life of Truth , is that we desire all people may com●●●to , that by it the povver of the vvicked one may be taken avvay , vvhich so furiously vvorketh in the hearts of those vvhich receive not the Truth in the love of it , but bring forth floods of enmity and bitterness against the Lambs of Christ ; but the love of God vvhich thinketh no evil , neither doth any unto another , is that which when it is felt & obeyed in all , wil dry up those floods from off the face of the earth , that there may be a place of rest for the redeemed and elect Seed , who only hath the Lord and his Light for their Habitation , and the Sword of the Spirit , which is the Word of God , for their Armour and Defence . Something that lately passed in discourse between the King and R. H. Published to prevent the mistakes and errors in a Copy lately printed contrary to the knowledge or intention of the party concerned ; and not onely so , but also misprinted and abus●d in several particulars ; therefore it was thought convenient for the removing of errors and mistakes , to be re-printed in a more true fo●m and ord●r for the satisfaction of others . R. H. SInce the Lord hath called us , and gathered us to be a people , to walk in his fear , and in his truth , we have alwayes suffered and been persecuted by the Powers that have ruled , and been made a prey of for departing from iniquity ; and when the breach of no just Law could be charged against us , then they made Laws of purpose to ensnare us ; and so our sufferings were unjustly continued . King. It is true , those that have ruled over you , have been cruel , and have professed much which they have not done . R. H. And likewise the same sufferings do now abound in more cruelty against us in many parts of this Nation ; as for instance , one at Thetford in Norfolk , where Henry Fell ( ministring unto the people ) was taken out of the Meeting 〈◊〉 whipped , and sent out of the Town from Parish to Parish , ●●●ards Lancashire ; and the chief ground of his Accusation in his Pass ( which was shewn to the King ) was , because he denied to take the Oath of Allegiance and Supremacy ; and so because that for Conscience-sake we cannot swear , but have learned obedience to the Doctrine of Christ , which saith , Swear not at all ; hereby an occasion is taken against us to persecute us ; and it is well known that we have not sworn for any , nor against any , but have kept to the truth , and our yea hath been yea , and our nay nay , in all things , which is more then the Oath of those that are out of the truth . King. But why can you not swear ? for an oath is a common thing amongst men to any engagement . R.H. Yes , it is manifest , and we have seen it by experience ; and it is so common amongst men to swear and engage either for or against things , that there is no regard taken to them , nor fear of an Oath ; that therefore which we speak of in the truth of our hearts , is more than what they swear . King. But can you not promise as before the Lord ( which is the substance of the Oath ? ) R. H. Yes , what we do affirm , we can promise before the Lord , and take him to our Witness in it ; but our so promising hath not been accepted , but the ceremony of an oath they have stood for , without which all other things were accounted of no effect . King. But how may we know from your words , that you will. perform ? R. H. By proving of us ; for they that swear are not known to be faithful , but by proving of them ; & so we by those that have tryed us , are found to be truer in our promises , than others by their Oaths ; and to those that do yet prove us , we shall appear the same . King. Pray what is your Principle ? R. H. Our Principle is this , That Jesus Christ is the true Light which enlighteneth every one that cometh into the world , that all men through him might believe ; and that they were to obey and follow this Light as they have received it , vvhereby they may be led unto God , and unto righteousness and the knowledge of the truth , that they may be saved . King. This do all Christians confess to be truth ; and he is not a Christian that will deny it . R. H. But many have denied it both in words and writings , and opposed us in it ; and above an hundred Books are put forth in opposition unto this Principle . That some of the Lords standing by the King , said , that none would deny that every one is enlightened . Lord. And one of the Lords asked how long we had been called Quakers , or did we own that Name ? R. H. That Name was given to us in scorn and derision about twelve years since ; but there was some that lived in this truth before we had that Name given unto us . King. How long is it since you owned this Iudgement and Way ? R. H. It is near twelve years since I owned this Truth according to the manifestation of it . King. Do you own the Sacrament ? R. H. As for the Word Sacrament , I do not read of it in the Scripture ; but as for the body and blood of Christ I own , and that there is no remission without blood . King. Well that is it . But do you noc believe that every one is commanded to receive it ? R. H. This we do believe , That according as it is written in the Scripture that Christ at his last Supper took Bread & brake it , and gave to his Disciples , and also took the Cup and blessed it , and said unto them , And as often as ye do this , ( that is , as often as they brake bread ) you shew forth the Lords death till he come ; and this we believe they did ; and they eat their bread in singleness of heart from house to house ; and Christ did come again to them according to his promise ; after which they said , We being many , are one bread , for we are all partakers of this one bread . Kings Friend . Then one of the Kings Friends said , It is true ; for as many grains make one bread , so they being many members , were one body . Another of them said , If they be the bread , then they must be broken . R.H. There is difference between that Bread which he brake at his last Supper , vvherein they vvere to shevv forth , as in a sign , his death until he came ; and this vvhereof they speak , they being many , are one bread ; for herein they vvere come more into the substance , and to speak more mystically , as they knevv it in the Spirit . Kings Friends . Then they said , It is truth , and he had spoken nothing but truth . King. How know you that you are Inspired by the Lord ? R. H. According as vve read in the Scriptures , That the inspiration of the Almighty giveth understanding ; so by its inspiration is an understanding given us of the things of God. Lord. Then one of the Lords said , How do you know that you are led by the true Spirit ? R. H. This we know , because the Spirit of truth it reproves the world of Sin , and by it we were reproved of sin , and also are led from sin unto righteousness , and obedience of truth , by which effects vve knovv it is the true Spirit ; for the spirit of the vvicked one doth not lead into such things . King and Lords . Then the King and his Lords said , It was truth . King. Well , of this you may be assured , That you shall none of you suffer for your Opinions or Religion , so long as you live peaceably , and you have the Word of a King for it ; and I have also given forth a Declaration to the same purpose , that none shall wrong you nor abuse you . King. How do you own Magistrates or Magistracy ? R. H. Thus vve do ovvn Magistrates : Whosoever is set up by God , whether King as Supream , or any set in Authority by him , who are for the punishment of evil doers , and the praise of them that do well ; such we shall submit unto , and assist in righteous and civil things , both by body and Estate : And if any Magistrates do that which is unrighteous , we must declare against it , only submit under it by a patient suffering , and not rebel against any by insurrections , plots and contrivances . King. Then the King said , That is enough . Lord. Then one of the Lords asked , Why do you meet together , seeing every ●ne of you have the Church in your selves ? R. H. According as it is written in the Scriptures , the Church is in God , Thes. 1.1 . And they that feared the Lord , did meet often together in the fear of the Lord ; and to us it is profitable , and herein we are edified and strengthened in the life of truth . King. How did you first come to believe the Scriptures were truth ? R. H. I have believed the Scriptures from a child to be a Declaration of truth , when I had but a literal knowledge , natural education and tradition ; but now I know the Scriptures to be true by the manifestation and operation of the Spirit of God fulfilling them in me . King. In what manner do you méet , and what is that order in your méetings ? R. H. We do meet in the same order as the people of God did , waiting upon him : and if any have a word of exhortation from the Lord , he may speak it ; or if any have a word of reproof or admonition , and as every one hath received the gift ; so they may minister one unto another , and may be edified one by another , whereby a grovvth into the knowledge of the truth is administred to one another . One of the Lords . Then you know not so much as you may know , but there is a growth then to be admitted of . R. H. Yes , vve do grovv daily into the knovvledge of the truth , in our exercise and obedience to it . King. Are any of your Friends gone to Rome ? R. H. Yes , there is one in Prison in Rome . King. Why did you send him thither ? R. H. We did not send him thither , but he found something upon his Spirit from the Lord , whereby he was called to go to declare against Superstition and Idolatry , vvhich is contrary to the Will of God. Kings Friend said , There were two of them at Rome , but one was dead . King. Have any of your Friends been with the Great Turk ? R. H. Some of our Friends have been in that Countrey . Other things were spoken concerning the liberty of the servants of the Lord , which vvere called of him into his service , that to them there vvas no limitation to Parishes or places , but as the Lord did guide them in his Work and Service by his Spirit . So the King promised that we should not any ways suffer for our Opinion or Religion ; and so in love passed away . R. H. His Answer to John Horn. J. H. IN thy Answer to my Queries , thou seemest to be resolved to say something , although it be absolutely contrary to the truth , and to that which thou knowest to be Truth , as will appear in what follows . In answer to my first , thou sayest , Christ in his Spirit ascended up to Heaven , when his Body was upon Earth : Is this an answer to the Question ? Is the mind or Spirit called the Son of man , according to John 3.13 . which came down from Heaven ? And no man doth ascend up to Heaven , but the Son of man which was then in Heaven . So by this thy Answer it appears then , that the Spirit is the Son of man , and that there is no other Son of man that ascends into Heaven , but the Spirit ; then what becomes of that body thou speaks of , if the Spirit only be that Son of man ? In thy Answer to the second and third Queries , thou provest in thy way , that Mary did that which was forbidden by Christ , when she held him by the feet , and worshipped him ; but in Mat. 28.9 . there is no forbidding of her to touch him ; but this is plainly manifest , that thou art in a snare , and cannot tel how to get out ; and yet thou wilt be saying something , though thereby thou more ensnares thy self ; but this Scripture thou wilt once know fulfilled , The Wicked shall be silent in darkness . When thou shouldst answer to the fourth , thou tellest of its being a secret , and of prying into things above what is vvritten ; although the ground of my Query is grounded upon that vvhich is vvritten in Luke 24.4 . To the fifth thou saist , That the Women did distinguish which was Christ , vvas certain ; but hovv they did so , is a foolish , curious Question : What certainty is there that they did knovv , vvhen thou knovvest not hovv ? but this is like the rest of the Priests doctrine , beating the air , and leaving all people in uncertainties , and yet would be paid for so doing ; but the Lord hath made thee manifest with the rest , that you cannot deceive much longer . To the sixth thou sayest , the two Angels were seen visibly , but were not Bodies nor Persons of men ; but in thy answer to the fourth , saist , that they both saw them as men and heard them speak , and had two individual Forms : Now if thou wert but simple , and not wilfully blind , thou mightest be the more excused . In thy answer to the seventh , thou art more lost and confused then in all the rest ; for when thou shouldst answer who were the eleven Disciples that were met together , mentioned Luk 24.33 . thou saist that Thomas might occasionally be gone out . Ans. If he was gone out , then the eleven was not together , as Luke 24. Again thou saist , that Matthias was chosen before the Evangelist wrote his Book : What darkness and ignorance is this ! Thou art not questioned when the Book was written , nor when Matthias was chosen , but who was the eleven that was together ? and whether was Matthias one of the eleven , seeing he was not then chosen when Christ did arise from the dead ? But there needs not much be said to thee , only to let thee see thy ovvn folly , lest thou should say thou art wise . To the eighth thou seemest to affirm , that the Scriptures are to be taken as they speak , and not otherwise a Mysterie . Ans. Then why dost thou and the Priests give meanings to the Scriptures , and do not let people take them as they speak , but makes them such a Mysterie without your meanings , and so plain with them ? but this is thy practice and doctrine to condemn thy self in the thing that thou allowest , and builds again that which thou hast destroyed , and so makes thy self a transgressor . Lastly , In thy conclusion thou falsly chargest me , That I do not believe that any of these things mentioned in these Scriptures , be really done . Which is not my Faith ; for I do believe that those things mentioned , were really done and fulfilled , as the Scripture speaks ; but it is no new thing vvith thee to accuse falsly , and to make lyes thy refuge ; but vvhat in all those things thou hast done against me , I do forgive thee , and do vvarn thee for the time to come , that thou go not on to commit the unpardonable sin against God and his Spirit , never to be forgiven . Again in thy last paper thou declarest thy ignorance of the two Seeds , and askest , what be those two seeds ? Answ. These two the Scripture speaks of , the seed of the Woman , and the seed of the Serpent . 2 Who did or doth sow them seeds ? Answ. God doth sow the one , and the wicked one the other . 3 Where be they sown ? Answ. In man. 4 When be they sown ? Answ. When man had a being , and a body to receive them . 5 What be the bodies they shall rise with ? Answ. Their own bodies according to their own natures , the one pure , and the other defiled . 6 Whether be these two seeds , and two bodies in all the world , or two seeds in every man , and the two bodies to or in every man ? Ans. The seeds are but two in the whole world , having each seed its own body , and in every one , until the one be cast out . 7 When shall those seeds arise , or be raised , whether after the bodily death , or after the spiritual death ? Ans. Every one in its own order , after the death of that which is born of the flesh , and also after the death of the spiritual wickedness , which is yet alive in all hirelings and deceivers ( such as thou art ) where the seed of God is yet in its grave . 8 What are the graves these are in , and out of which they shall arise ? These of which the Scripture speaks , which when thou comest to understand it , thou wilt understand both the seeds and graves of which we speak ; Christ the seed made his grave in the wicked , and in the rich in his death , and out of that grave shall rise with his body into everlasting life ; if thou canst receive it thou maist be satisfied . And as to the 9. Query , Why I say , that the one shall rise unto everlasting life , and the other unto condemnation ? Ans. Because it is so , therefore I say so , and if thou say to the contrary make it manifest ; but in this as in other things thy folly and ignorance is manifest , to ask why I speak the truth which thou thy self darest not deny to be truth . R. H. A short Relation of the twelve changes of Government that hath been in England within these 8 years , under all of which we have suffered Persecution . SInce by the Lord we were called , chosen , and separated to be his people , and had unto us committed the word of Reconciliation , and since his eternal power broke forth and was manifest amongst us , hath he done great things in the Earth ; for he hath prepared his way , and made it plain before the face of all people , by the appearance and testimony of his eternal light in their hearts : which hath not onely there shined , but is broken forth into a life of Righteousness in many whom the Lord hath accounted worthy to be his servants in his Work , to raise up a seed unto Jacob , and to gather the dispersed of Israel and Judah , ( both Jews and Gentiles ) into the Covenant of Light and Life with the Father , from whence they are erred by transgression : and for the accomplishing of this work and service hath the Lord furnished us with spiritual Weapons to war even against spiritual wickedness in high places , 2 Cor. 10.4.5 . and against the Rulers of the darkness of this World , Eph●s . 6.12 . which hath appeared under many Forms and Governments since the breakings forth of truth in this Nation . Yea many Heads or Governments hath been raised up and cast down again by one Hand and Power : and have all from the Lord ( through his Servants ) had a word of Wisdom and Counsel administred unto them , what they should do that they might be established : which if they did not , the Lord would break them to pieces : which word of the Lord was fulfilled upon them all . And every divers Head had a Horn in it , to push at the Lambs of Christ withal , and at every appearance of his Spirit and Power in his people ; but for his Elect sake was their days shortned , and his breakings and destruction came upon them according to his word spoken to them by his servants at divers times . And it is to be observed as the Lords doing and ordering by his mighty power , that within this eight years , si●ce we have been persecuted and cruelly used for the Name and Testimony of Jesus , and the Answer of a pure Conscience , there hath been twelve Changes of Government in this Nation , which have all of them more or less been guilty of our Sufferings , either in acting against us , or in suffering others to act cruelly , and not endeavouring to restrain them , when they had power in their hands to do it , and the sufferings laid before them , who suffered for righteousness sake ; so that they could not plead ignorance , but was left without excuse , which now in the day of their misery and tribulation some of them do consider it when their time is no more . I. As first in the time of the long Parliament , in the Year One thousand six hundred fifty two , although many pretended , some prayed , and some fought for Liberty of Conscience in matters of Religion , yet at that time were we imprisoned , beat , and persecuted , for obeying and worshipping our God in Spirit and Truth , according to his teaching ; and at that time the Priests rage begun to burn like fire : and they run one unto another , and kindled the wrath in one another against the Truth , even to petition against the spreading of it ( and those that walked in it ) as a dangerous thing ; and they generally with one consent called the Truth Heresie , Delusion and Blasphemy : and those that ministred it abroad they called Ring-leaders of Sects , as in the Apostles days there was the like example . But these was warned in their day , not to persecute the innocent , nor to uphold those that preached for filthy lucre , who served not the Lord Jesus Christ but their own Bellies , But they hearkned not to the Counsel of the Lord , but shut their ears against his Instructions : therefore was their day taken from them , and their Power given to another , that they also might be tryed . 2 In the year ( 1653 ) a Council of State was called , by ( O C. ) but they did nothing to take off the weight of oppression in the Nation , neither in Spiritual nor Civil things ; for Pride and the deceitfulnesse of Riches entred into their hearts , that they did not regard nor set themselves wholly to do that which the Lord did require them although they were warned of God in their time , yet the Yoke of the oppressor was not taken away , but under it the Nation groaned and they wrought no deliverance in the earth . III. Then the Little Parliament sat in the same year , and there was a plant of Righteousnesse ( tending towards some equity and freedom ) springing up in them , but the strength of deceipt and subtilty in others , did quench it before it brought forth any thing to perfection , and in that time the Priests fierce persecuting Zeal was so inflamed , that many Petitions from several parts of the Nation was presented ( against the Quakers ) to the Parliament , and their continual clamor , Petitions and Addresses ( and they being not regarded and harkned unto ) was one cause of the continuance of the Nations bondage and oppression , and God never prospered such as received them into their Councils , or gave heed to their reports , but a Curse and Destruction alwaies followed them in their undertakeings , whose ear was open unto such things . And in the time of his Power and Government , was persecution continued about Religion , though much was pretended to the contrary ; they also were warned , and wisely counselled in their day , and so was left without excuse . IV. Again in the same year was ( O C. ) made Protector who had his day , and power in his hand to have done good ; and to have done that which he and others pretended ; but he joyning with the covetous Priests and their Interests ; to make his arm strong , thereby betrayed the Lord and his People into the hands of , sinners . And instead of removing Persecution , he caused new Acts to be made to Persecute by , and so brought a Curse upon himselfe and Family , and Tribulation upon those that trusted in him : And the Lord did often visit him with reproofs and instructions , untill he hardened his heart ag●inst all reproof , and then was he given up of the Lord , and of his People , to his appointed end , as an Example to all Hypocrites and Treacherous ones . V. Again his second Parliament was called , and fat in the year 1654. In their daies was not the Land eased , not freed from its bondage , and when they had let in the Priests Spirits , and was incensed against the Truth , and intending to make Laws to Persecute , then were they broken , and their power taken from them , who in their day was warned , but did not the thing which the Lord required of them . VI. Oliver's 3d. Parliament , which consisted of two Houses , sat in the year 1657. they more than any of the rest , did draw back into that which they had declared against , and they let in the Priests Persecuting Spirit , and made Laws for Persecution , and many were Imprisoned in the time of their Government , because for Conscience sake they could not pay Tithes to the Hireling Priests , and because they could not Swear , contrary to Christs command , Mat. 5. And they had many warnings and admonitions from the Lord , which they rejected , and so the Lord rejected them , as from doing his work . VII . Then Richard Cromwell in the year 1658. was made Protector , whom the Priests flockt to as their Rock of defence , that he as their Joshua might lead them into their promised Land , which was but a Benefice of Tithes or Augmentation , their prayed for Inheritance , and they told him that the Gospel was bound up in him , and so did cleave unto him by Flatteries , as they did unto all the rest before him for their own ends ; but the suffering seed of God , which could not Flatter him ; was not set free : who freely declared unto him the word of the Lord , and instructions from the Almighty before his day was over . VIII . And again his Parliament sate in the year One thousand six hundred fifty nine , they continued and did not free the Sufferers , and imprisoned ones , who suffered onely for the worship of their God , and for the exercise of a good Conscience ; but they went on swiftly in the way of their destruction , to impose Worships upon people , and to decree unrighteous Decrees : and upon that Rock of Religion they were broken as others had been before them , though they were exhorted to righteousness , and told of the evill that did come upon them . IX . The ninth Government was again the Long-Parliament , who came in with great pretences and resolutions , and protestations to make this Nation a Free-Common-wealth , not onely in Name but in Nature ; And they begun well , and to call the prisoners up to London who suffered for Conscience sake , and freed some of them : and many of them intended to take away that great Oppression of Tithes , whereby much deceit , and many d●ceivers are held up in the Nation : and then the Priests rage was kindled against them , and they cursed them in their pulpits , and preached up War against them , and themselves get Horses , Pistols and Swords to fight for their Tithes and Maintenance : and when they were routed , then they again petitioned the Parliament , some begging pardon , and some pleading not-Guilty : and the Parliament was so blind , that upon their Dissimulation they let in the Priests again ; and begun to gratifie the Priests , and establish Tithes , and then the wrath of God broke forth against them , and their Destruction was prophesied of , and told them that it should shortly come upon them , as it came to pass : because they would not receive the Lords Counsel in their day . X. Then the Army and Committee of Safety ( so called ) had the Power and Government in their hands , which they did not improve as they might have done for the liberty of the Subjects : neither did they receive that counsel from the Lord which would have opened their understandings how to have ruled for him , but with corrupt reasonings among themselves perverted one another , and confounded their own work , reasoning out the good and honest intentions of some that was amongst them , until they all became as a heap of Confusion , and their work broken to pieces . A just reward of their own devices , and following the counsels of their own hearts ; neglecting the Advice of that Spirit of righteousness which should have led and also established them in the work of the Lord in the Nation : so as unworthy and disobedient were they cast out . XI . Then again the Long-Parliament had another day of Tryal given them into their hands ; but a mad zeal and fury attended them , against the honest and upright-hearted people ; and the Fury of the Oppressour was highly exalted amongst them , burning like fire , in which they could not contain themselves , nor possess their own Spirits in quietness ; in which fury was folly : the effects of which did betray and destroy both themselves and others . They being diverted from their first intentions , and desire after righteousness , a just recompence of reward for their disobedience came upon them , according to many true Testimonies from the Lords servants unto them ; which if in time their ears had been open to the Lords instructions , and their hearts inclined to righteousness , that swift and sudden des●ruction had not so soon come upon them : but they being blinded with fury in their anger , would neither hear nor see that which was the effect of their own work , nor the Lords hand of Justice near come upon them , as now they may consider it . XII . The Secluded Members then came in as a rod of Gods anger , and of Justice , or a prey upon them ; and it was manifest to the seeing Eye that God had turned his hand against all those which ha● abused his Power , and neglected his work , who had sought and set up themselves ins●ead of the Lord and his righteousness : and now when the Lords hand is justly stretched forth to wound those that by him would not be healed , who shall forbid it , until the cause be removed , and they purged through judgment and suffering ? And now unto you the present power , King and Parliament : be not high-minded , but fear ; be not lifted up , as though by your Arm , Power , and Policie , you had got a Victory ; For it is Righteousness yet which the Lord doth require ; and if by his immediate power ( without your Sword ) he have cut off all those that you might be grafted in : Consider therefore Gods end in so doing ; for it is by that immediate power of God ( which hath broken them ) that you must stand , ( if you do stand ) for God is the same ; and will be to you as he hath been to others , as you answer or not answer his requirings : For it is not Persons that God accepts , but he that fears God and works righteousness , is accepted of him ; therefore as you look to be established by the Lord , do righteousness , equity and justice to every man , without respect of persons : and according to the equal and Royal Law of God walk , doing unto others as yee would that others should do unto you . Take heed of imposing any thing relating to the matter of Worship upon the Consciences , le●● you kindle Gods wrath against you , ( as others have done ) which will not easily be quenched ; for upon this Rock have many been broken , and others wounded so , that they could not again be healed . And two things we would mind you of especially . First , That you are not come in by your own Sword or Power , but by a remarkable hand of God in such a way as neither your selves , nor any other could have expected . Secondly , Consider what a flood of unrighteousness , licentiousness , and fl●shly liberty hath of a sudden overspread the Nation upon your comming in ; which although it received some little seasonable curb by a Proclamation from King Charles ( till which , scarce a man scaring God , and that could not joyn with them in their rioting and drunken healths , could pass the Streets in most places of the Nation ) yet the body of that iniquity still stands in many places , as in May-games , Fiddlings , Dancings , Stage-Plays , and divers other ungodly vain Sports , by which Gods righteous Soul is still grieved , the Spirits of all people that truly fear God sadned , the weight of that wickedness which already lay upon the Nations mightily encreased ; quite contrary to what such a work as your coming in after such a manner required ; All which speaks dreadful things against these Nations in the sight of many , who are most acquainted with Gods fear , and have that Eye in them which foresees evil to come , in whose hearts and mouths it is now to warn you , in love to your own Souls , ( who are in power to scatter such Wickedness ) and the Nations peace and wel-being , that the Wrath that is already threatned might be prevented from coming in your day . And we desire , that you may take more notice of the Lords warnings to you , then others have done that have gone before you , that Gods hand and power be not turned against you , as it was against them . R. H. An Epistle to Friends . OH my dear and truly beloved Friends , by the holy Spirit of my Father is my heart freely opened and enlarged unto you , even in the love which is as a Fountain of Life which plentifully flows forth in the virtue of the Father in the hearts of the beloved children of God , which many Waters cannot quench , amongst such who have known the Lord in the outgoings of his Power , to be as the Morning to your souls ; the virtue of whose Grace and Love hath been as a dew remaining upon your branches , and whose Doctrine hath even dropped as the rain upon your tender-Plants , that you thereby might be refreshed and nourished up unto eternal life ; the Lord God hath honored you with his presence , and hath often fed you with his living appearances and manifestations , and you have known what it is to drink of the pure Waters of Life , even from that living Fountain which doth always flow in the Spirit , by which there is pure and spiritual refreshment ministred unto the soul ; and the Waters of Strife have ye refused , which doth corrupt those that drink them ; and so as it hath been , so let it always continue , that you may be kept clean by the Word which you have heard from the beginning , and by which you have been gathered out of the World by the Word of his Power , and fed together as sheep of his pasture , and lambs of his Fold . So let not the feeling-sence of the loving-kindness of the Lord be forgotten , neither let the purity of your first love decrease ; but let the dear love of the Father in the freeness of liffe , flow forth plentifully one towards another , which is the bond of perfection among the children of Light , by which you will come to be established in the free Spirit of the Lord , in the unity of Life , and in the fellowship of the Gospel , not being subject to change , or be moved from that Word and Spirit by which you have been taught and led in the vvay of Life , and by which you have known the mind of Christ ; and by his gift of Righteousness vvhich you have received , are you able to try every spirit ( as you abide in it ) whether it be of God , both as to Doctrines without , and as to motions vvithin . So therefore let nothing move you nor unsettle your minds from that measure of Life which in all things is a perfect Instructor , which will keep you in a pure Dominion over all feignedness and formality , even to dwell in the substance , which is the holy life of the Son of God , where the true love , the heavenly voice , and pure joy is felt and known as in the beginning , always remembring how the Gospel in power came unto you , and how in fear and much trembling it was both preached unto you , and received by you , with the many blessed effects of its operation , vvorking your conversation out of the earthly nature , & from the earthly body , into the heavenly body , in which you are able to take up his Cross ( if it be daily ) to follow him in the regeneration and newness of life , even from the true knowledge of him in whom ye have believed , and by whose povver you stand : For when we consider the infinite deepness and largeness of that love with which we have been cloathed ( and have even covered others withal ) and likewise the many experiences of the Father's dealings with us , in working all our Works both in us , and for us , this cannot but deeply engage our hearts unto him , how that ever since we have known him to be our Leader , he hath always gone before us , preparing our vvay , that we might serve him ; he hath for his seeds sake even reproved Kings , and hath quenched the violence of fire that was kindled in many hearts against us ; he hath by his Wisdom put to silence the ignorance of foolish men , that he may clear us from all their reproach : He hath not only kept us alive in our suffering under the Wrath of our Enemies , but in the power of his spirit made us to reign over them ; and not only over our outward and open enemies , but also over the secret smitings of the wicked one , which would privily slay the righteous : He hath had a tender regard to his innocent ones , to keep them out of the snares of the betrayers , and to keep them in the unity of his power and love , in the which I speak unto you that know these things , whose ears the Lord hath so opened , that you can try Words ; and whose eyes also he hath unclosed , that you can see that which causeth divisions and offences , contrary to the Doctrine of Christ , and avoid it ; for hitherto , even until this day , have you learned by good experience , and some through sufferings , that whatsoever hath risen up to oppose the Lord in his Way , to quench the strength of his Love , or to break the unity of his people , whether it hath been by spirit or letter , under never so innocent pretences , the Lord hath brought it down , and confounded it , and made it to be as dust under the feet of his Saints ; so that we may together say , to the praise of our God , that we knovv the depths of Satan , and are not ignorant of his devices . Therefore in the sence of this experience , put on strenth , O ye Arm of the Lord , by vvhich he will do great things , and through whom he will make his power known to the Nations , in setting up his Kingdom and Government , and his Peace , of which there shall be no end ; Let nothing hinder the setting up of his Scepter of Truth and Righteousness amongst you ; and let the Life of Jesus in his Love and Power , reign over all the earthly spirits , and over the spirit of Jealousie , which is strong as death , and cruel as the grave ; which being not received , it can hurt nothing but its own habitation in which it lodgeth . So keep your selves pure in the love of God , and be not partakers of other mens sins , walking worthy of the holy and blessed calling in which the Lord hath given you an inheritance among the living . And dwel in the spirit of meekness , in which the Wisdom and Power of God you will feel , to the refreshing of your souls ; for as you therein abide , you are our joy in the Lord , and a strength unto us in his Work. Another Epistle to Friends . IN the life of the Son of God dwell , that in it you may be made manifest unto all , answering the just , and reproving the unjust , for he is come to rule who must put down all rule and all authority under his feet ; and in him is the living dominion felt , and the faith in the power , which overcomes the edge of the sword , and subdues Nations , in which is the dread of the Almighty to bring under the stout-hearted even by the power of the holy seed which is spreading abroad in the earth for the finishing the Fathers work in the ear●h , which all are witnesses of who do abide and walk in his light , where you may all enjoy your peace with the Lord , and be kept in his power , over the power and spirit of the world , in the everlasting covenant of light and life , where you may all feel the growth of the seed in you ; into the Fathers gift , which is the life immortal : so dearly beloved and truly begotten in my Fathers love , dwell in that which gives you a sight , knowledge , and fee●ing of him who hath begotten you into a measure of his life , light , power , and image ; and hereby will you all be united into one , serving one another in love , for God is love , and we are his off spring , and to the world is he manifest through us , as being his natural branches , and the breaking forth of his light and power , and is as set upon a hill , unto which all eys look , and from which the sincere and tender take their example ; so dear hearts in the path of the Just walk , which is a shining light which shineth more and more unto the perfect day , so as children of it all walk that you to others may be examples , and leaders out of darkness , and out of the ways of death , into the Kingdom of the Father , which stands in the Light , righteousness , and peace , and joy in the holy Ghost ; in which the power and presence of my heavenly Father preserve you , and keep you in his living Dominion . Reasons why no Imposition ought to be upon mens Consciences by any but the Lord. 1. BEcause no man can perswade the conscience of another either what God is , or how to worship him , but onely the Spirit which God hath given to instruct man. 2 Because to impose any thing upon another mans conscience either to do or practice , is not to do unto another as he would have another do unto him , and therefore is contrary to Christs doctrine . 3 Because all obedience or service that is thereby obtained , is for fear of wrath , and not from love , nor for conscience sake , and will but continue so long as that fear or force abides upon them . 4 Because thereby no man can make an Hypocrite a Believer ; but it is possible that thereby he may make many Hypocrites . 5 Because that in all forced impositions upon mens consciences there is of the wrath of man exercised , which work● not the righteousness of God , but rather begets enmity one towards another . 6 Because that men are not made thereby loving Subjects , but forced Slaves . 7 Because that by the force of imposing any thing upon men many are thereby hardned in their hearts , and resolved to resist , when as by love and leaving them free , they m●ght easily be perswaded of that which otherwise th●y will not be . THE END . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A44832-e2570 Acts 33. Rom. 4.11 . John 5.3 . Jer. 1.5 , 6. Luk. 1.66.08 . 1 Kin. 8.46 . John 14.4 . Prov. 20.9 . John 18.10 . Eccles. 7.23 .