A survay of that foolish, seditious, scandalous, prophane libell, the protestation protested. Hall, Joseph, 1574-1656. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A45320 of text R533 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing H418). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 116 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 27 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A45320 Wing H418 ESTC R533 12768730 ocm 12768730 93625 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A45320) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 93625) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 254:E164, no 8) A survay of that foolish, seditious, scandalous, prophane libell, the protestation protested. Hall, Joseph, 1574-1656. [4], 40 [i.e. 48] p. [s.n.], London : 1641. "Errata" : verso of 2d prelim. leaf. Attributed to Hall by Theodore C. Pease, The Leveller movement, 1916, on p. 71. A reply to Henry Burton's The protestation protested, 1641. Reproduction of original in Thomason Collection, British Library. eng Burton, Henry, 1578-1648. -- Protestation protested. Great Britain -- History -- Charles I, 1625-1649 -- Sources. A45320 R533 (Wing H418). civilwar no A survay of that foolish, seditious, scandalous, prophane libell, The protestation protested. Hall, Joseph 1641 21101 99 10 0 0 0 0 52 D The rate of 52 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the D category of texts with between 35 and 100 defects per 10,000 words. 2005-11 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-11 Aptara Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2006-01 Jonathan Blaney Sampled and proofread 2006-01 Jonathan Blaney Text and markup reviewed and edited 2006-04 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion A SURVAY OF THAT Foolish , Seditious , Scandalous , Prophane LIBELL , THE PROTESTATION PROTESTED . Boeth . de Consolatione . 〈…〉 . LONDON , Printed in the Yeare , 1641. READER . THis flash , the suddain thoughts of a day , had outfac't its adversarie the first week of his age , ni praesum sub frequenti puerpero gemiscens , obste●●iceam negasset operam ; nor without much pressure through a croud of opposition hath it throng'd out to thy hands ; the birth how mean soever was nigh strangled in the ●●adle : Take it as it is , an autoschediastick . The same affection to my mother the Church skrewd it from me , that loosed his tongue in defence of his father ; She may say to her more concerned sonnes , as Jacob to his , why stand you gazing one upon another ? a fatall lethargie hath so stiffned their imaginations , that nothing is heard from them but the damps and groans of a dying body , whether sydere tacti , or fallen in a spirituall premunire , I know not . It is true their scale may expect a more proportioned adversarie , but they do not mean time consider that Libels the more vulgar , because fitted to that capacity , be the more dangerous ; silence appears guilty or timorous to this talkative age , either of these may edge an ignorant or base party . This Come● points also at the State , for the loose rain'd popularity the Libeller aims at , is no lesse dangerous to the liberty of the Subject , then a too high tun'd prerogative . Once acquaint that Briareus , the multitude with the secrets of government , they will rush into the cloath of state ; they like the smaller starres have their course th●art that of the greater lights of the Kingdome , nor give any motion ( unlesse these be retrograde at biddings ) to the higher spheres , except that of trepidation , and when they come to be stellae culminantes , and take the influence , the management upon them , they neither know the disease , nor the remedy , but like empty 〈◊〉 ●●acks work upon themselves , while the spiders of the State weave nets of their humors to catch adv 〈◊〉 . Sed manum de tabula , I find my affections 〈…〉 here for my Iudgement . I do ingenuously 〈…〉 no enemy to the agents or petitioners for a Reforma●●on ; The last times abound most in lees , and the evening Horizon hath the thickest vapours : but a medicine not a destructive must purge those , a 〈◊〉 not ●●hunderclap dispell these , onely the sectaries who swell now beyond the reach of names and numbers , I have here glanced at : these hotspurs run themselves breathlesse , and leave others so far behind that they despair to follow : nor can they ( errour and faction is so individ●ated with their opinions ) attend the leisure of authority , or keep the path chalked out to them by a Parliament , but they must needs instantly from superstition to prophanenesse , from disorder to Anarchy ; so farre have I justified my self , give thy approbration if it please thee , I court it not , nor 〈◊〉 I a Chameli●● to breath in that ●ire ; onely let thy charity extend to the errors of the presse , and be not mooved with such grains and scruples , but impute them to the Epidemick of the times . Farewell . Errata . Pag. 2. l. 9. for a read or . p. 6. l. 4. f. ●ayles r. 〈…〉 p. 7. l. 16. to 〈…〉 . A SURVAY OF THAT FOOLISH , SEDITIOUS , SCANDALOUS , PROFANE LIBELL , The Protestation Protested . Epist. 2. Timoth. Chap. 3. IN the last times perillous dayes shall come ; for men shall be lovers of their owne selves , covetous , boasters , blasphemous , disobedient to Parents , unthankefull , unholy ; without naturall affection , truce-breakers , false accusers , incontinent , fierce , despisers of these that are good : Trayterous , heady , high-minded , lovers of pleasure more then lovers of God : having a forme of godlinesse , but denying the power thereof , from such turne away : for of this sort are they that creepe unto houses , and leade captive silly women , loaden with sinne , led away with divers lusts , ever learning , and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth ; now as Iannes and Iambres withstood Mooses , so doe these also resist the truth . Epist. 2. Pet. Chap. 2. But these speake evill of the things they understand not , and shall perish utterly in their owne corruption : They have eyes full of adultery , and that cannot cease from sinne , beguiling unstable soules : An heart they have exercised with covetous practises ; cursed children , which have forsaken the right way , and have gone astray , following the way of Baalam the sonne of Bosor , who loved the wages of unrighteousnesse : These are Wells without water , Clouds that are carried with a tempest , to whom the mist of darkenesse is reserved for ever : for when they speake swelling words of vanity , they allure through the lusts of the flesh , and while they promise them liberty , they themselves are the servants of corruption . Epist. Jude . Also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh , despise dominions , and speak ill of dignities : These speake ill of these things which they know not : W●e unto them , for they have gone in the way of Coin , and run greedily after the errour of Baalam for reward , and perished in the gainsaying of Core : clouds they are without water , carried about with winds ; trees , whose fruit withereth ; without fruit , twice dead , plucked up by the root : raging waves of the Sea , foaming out their owne shame ; wandring starres , to whom is reserved the blacknesse of darknesse for ever : These are murmurers , complainers , walking after their owne lusts , and their mouthes speake great swelling words . GOodman Cobler , ( it is you that hath stitched together this Tubb-Sermon ) or whosoever else of the most holy inspired fraternitie , I have taken you Sir for my taske : And that because of my abilities , Nil Su●or ultra crepidam , I dare venture no farther than your old shooes ; if I can finde you there , and that your trade mistake not the reformation of Soales , it is well : but you are become a Preacher at the Last , and by that old peece of yours , ( such stuffe you meddle with ) taken from Barrow , or Marprelates Reliques , hath made the scissure worse . Nor shall I trouble your conscience to thrust order upon you , whose Religion it is to contemne all order ; I must follow you , as you have followed your Enthusiasmes , and that in the same manner ; for as in preaching and prayer you are extemporary , so am I in answering : I am not two dayes your debter , lest you , as your usurious brethren are wont , had expected Interest : It was too much cost to bestow paper though not paines upon you . When I traced every step of your lazie and superfluous discourse , to have joyn'd with my adversarie , I found you as naked as an Adamite , not ( one reason ) the least peece of armour with you ; It had been a shame therefore to have drawn upon you , I have onely used the whip , that may perhaps teach you sense . It is true , foure times you cite Antiquitie , but in your own way , that is , with greater respect to Heathenisme , then Christianity , if that proceed from a Bishop , for you marshall three Ethnick Emperours with one Eusebius . And why him , I pray you ? doth not this derogate from your infallibilitie , if in a syllable you be obliged to a Father ? what ? are not you and your Bible the onely Judge of Controversies ? can any one finde out the true meaning of Scripture , except your selfe , who hath monopolized ( with all pietie and reverence be it spoken ) the Spirit of truth ? To say otherwise , were to preferre Rome to Amsterdam : but I doe forgive you , you have dealt very moderately in this point ; one onely you mention , and him in matter of fact , the rest of the Booke is your owne invention , where you have as faithfully abstained from Learning and Antiquitie , as ( and they are so to you ) from heresie and superstition . If the Reader complaine of Vineger in the Inke , let him remember that the bite of the Viper ( and such they are that rend the bowels of their mother the Church ) is best helped by the antidote of Vipers : a phrensie is hardly cured but by the lance , the scourge , the whipping-post : Darke roomes indeed , and a large dose of Ellebor , were the fittest attendants for such roavings : But give me leave to convey him home to his Bedlam , there in the paroxisme of his madnesse , to have his familie exercise ; and by the way ( though I wander after him that hath long since wandred from himselfe ) I hope in charity so be-labour the man , that hee may henceforth know that part of Scripture practically ; ( if it be not against his justification to know any so ) A rod is for the backe of the foole : nor wish I worse successe to all his braying associates , though their lugges be without the Bishops visitation , yet I hope their necks is within that of the Parliament ; that Honourable and Judicious Assembly will in due time provide against these monstrously absurd Libells , that heap of non-sense , from the which such a vapor of stupiditie and ignorance is exhaled ; that who are strangers to our better times , if they behold this Iland thorow the same , shall verily thinke it under an universall Lunacie . But I have stayed you too long before the doore . You Vsher in that discourse of yours by a preface , used belike many times before your Dresser-Lectures , and tell us something of conscience , and its scale ; not unlike the Lap-wing , keeping the greatest stir when you are farthest from your nest : conscience in the contemplation , in the pretence , is yours ; but what have you to doe with it in the realitie , ( so here you presse it ) in the practice ? beware this care of yours in agendis make you not suspect of merit , if not of supererogation . The peece of sacred Scripture you make bold with , in my poore judgement comes not home to the point : the words doe rather concerne a voluntary then imposed vow , if any be such ; and therefore had beene more congruous ( if , as you doe , by your infallibilitie , you had justified the matter ) to the holy Protestation is made in your Parlour meetings , for tearing a Liturgie , rending a Surplice , burning the Railes , and pluming a Bishop : but you cheat the world with a froath of words , and amuse the well-meaning ; but the ignorant multitude with an empty noise of conscience , purity , and reformation : they say it is an evill signe to stumble at the threshold ; and If God take no pleasure in fooles , you have prefixed a very slender approbation to your booke . Your next is , you tremble to see what small account most men doe make of so solemne a Vow . How doe you ( which is yours quarto modo ) preach and practise contradictions ? Were ever the most superlative votaries of the Church of Rome , Jesuites and Seminarie Priests , more obstinately mis-zealous in refusing Oaths , as Civill and Ecclesiasticall tyrannie and Antichristianisme then you , when they sute not with your passions , and interests ? Witnesse these of Supremacie and Canonicall obedience ; the Gate-house can tell us how much lesse you have esteemed your bodily , then your Christian liberty in such cases : And if the feare to be plundred of a faire Estate , or the love to a fatter Benefice , can buy in this nicenesse of yours , and perswade you to lose a Button , you have no more conscience in observing , than you had obedience in taking the Oath : For , if Authority be in the waining , and some popular stars promise you liberty , how soone doe you breake these cords asunder ; and with a Jusjurandum illicitum solummodo stringit ad poenitentiam , start you aside like a deceitfull bow ? Yea , thinke your selfe obliged to redeeme your slackned rigour by an after-increase of heate and violence ? Yet are you still the same man , love of gaine prescribed your oath , and the same absolves you from it , which doubtlesse your honesty by a mentall reservation , did ever lay as a ground ; Happy you , whose conscience can mould and fashion it selfe to the impresse of the times , and ebbe and flow with the aspect of different occasions ! bee ashamed therefore ( tremble you cannot ) when you see What small account most of you make of your solemne vowes : God is not mocked ; nor shall your bragges of casting out Devils of Idolatrie and Superstition in his name , save you in that day . Having thus skirmished , you advance with the maine battle , subjoyning , That the Ministers and People have taken the Protestation , and have solemnely vowed to maintaine the Doctrine of the Church , so farre as it is opposite to Popery . They have so , and so might they ever performe ; but cannot one Devill be cast out , unlesse seaven enter ? have they therefore vowed to erect Anabaptisme ? is there no midde betwixt the extreames ? no salvation , but either in the communion of the one , or conventicle of the other ? must either a shaveling or a scavinger be the starre to point us out the way to Christ ? lend us some of your light , your tallow , to finde out a consequence here , I pray : I must tell you , and ( Ni frons periit ) you may blush at it ; you have defiled your fathers house , and laid us open to the opprobrious insolence of the common enemie , who eying us in ( 〈◊〉 ) our drosse , wantonly upbraid us , to have rejected under the name of Superstition all visibilitie of a Church , and by the title of purity , to have brought in nothing else but profanenesse and Atheisme . And it is not profanenesse to thinke so slovenly as you doe of God and his Service , Atheisme ; to professe so much , and practise nothing at all ? You are so point-blanke against an innocent , harmelesse , decent worship ; that either there have beene no Christians before your dayes , or you are none such : Ours perhaps in abomination of so obstinate foolishnesse , may desperately make Apostasie to Rome , but we can expect none from thence , if you be admitted to banish from us the outward being of a Church , their very sayles may thinke us refuted by common sense , when they finde nothing amongst us that relates to Christianity . But what if under the name of Popery we finde you 〈◊〉 touched by the Protestation , and so transport you in a second Colonie from New-England to Babylon ? It is a received principle , that Proximius est extremum extremo , quam extremum medio : and Lysimachus Nicanor doth tell you , ( not these to whom he speakes ) that whilst you refute the ●ittle , you nourish the worst of Papists in your owne bosomes . See your selfe in him , and take these gleanings further : you plead the same independancie with Rome from the civill power , except it bee more easie for a State to tamper with one Bishop in Christendome , than with one in each Parish : You maintaine the excommunication of Princes , which is denied by many of her followers ; and that too , so much the more dangerous in you , as you are ready to pretend a charter , a demise , of temporalities in ordine ad spiritualia , not from the Pope , but by a revelation from heaven ; with the clause , Deus transfert imperia : you may , and it please you , remember of Johannes Lerdensis Rex Israel , who was hurried by such a trick as this from the Shuttle to the Scepter . Yea , in the matter of Episcopacie you joyne hands with the Beast ; you and his Holinesse must have all Bishops , except him and your selves , to be in the best sense , but of humane institution ; see the hot Bickerings about this plea , ( if your reading goeth beyond a six-penny ware ) in the third Convocation of the Councell of Trent : Vnhappy Bishops ! grownd betwixt two factions , as betwixt two milstones ; there the Pope of Rome , here the Pope of the Parish upbraiding them equally as usurpers . I could tell you further your Ethusiasmes , and their traditions are from the same Mint-house , you from a tumour of presumption , they of authority , alike ready to belie the holy Spirit , and the blessed Fathers : But having brought you to Tyber , I leave you both as twins ( no difference but in age ) to sucke the Wolfe your common nurse , and proceed to your ( for the Sections , if no more ) schismaticall discourse . Here I must luctare cum larva , grapple with non-entities , doubts and negatives ; as if the old Sceptike Philosophers were revived in you , or as if Sixins Empericus had founded your sect ; Tell me in good earnest , why is there nothing positive in you , but all your reformations consist of denialls : you are perhaps , afraid , by having any thing common with others , to be thought of the Church universall , which you have now thrust out of your Creed , and given her a bill of divorce ; or else it is that your Christian liberty can heare of no restraint , even in the fundamentals . Your objections ( though like Ixions cloud , airy , and by your owne fancie and supposition ) I passe them by , as the onely orthodox part in you ; and shall strictly tie my selfe to your answers , lest I seeme rather to have a cause , then found a party . ) In your first and second , you make your posture , and take your ayme , in the third you let in the thrust against the Church of England ; but with no lesse mistake , nor better successe , than when Dou Quixot ( one who for a head-piece , might have beene moderator to your dyet ) justed against the wind-mill , in stead of the inchanted castle . At the first view , by the multiplying glasse of your purity , you can discry foure of the beasts heads , and informe us , that the Liturgie , discipline , government and ceremonies of the Church of England are popish . Suppose now it were so , is not your curse , who discovereth your mothers nakednesse , double to his , who did not cover his fathers ? But I have mistaken you , your anabaptization doth priviledge you to be none of her sons . What a cursed Shimei is this to lay this heaviest imputation upon the most glorious Church in the world ? I should tell you , if you had either patience or judgement for instruction , the Church of England , since the reformation hath beene onely she , who hath seriously entred the lists with the enemy , keeped them in hot blood , and scarce granted a breathing time to her opposites , who , if not to award her blowes , had not daign'd to blunt a pen against your sect. Did not Cranmer , Ridley , Latimer , and numbers more of religious and learned martyrs , seale their departure from the Church of Rome by their dearest blood , and must your sacrilegious hands throw their sacred dust in the ayre , by perswading us , that they dyed popish , not as members only , but ( in some kind ) authors of that Church , that publique service wee now enjoy ? How may this incourage the Romanists , when by our pretended selves , not onely our best champions , but our very Church is made theirs ? How shall they triumph over us , and our unnecessary debates , ( they fight closely within doores , when we bawle in the streets ) telling us , we cannot agree amongst our selves , untill wee returne ad Petram unde excisi sumus . What you say in defence of this your generall position , wee shall see in each particular , only I cannot passe your Imposition of the Liturgie ; Hinc illae lachrymae : any thing that is by order and authority is burthensome ; you idolize onely the calves of your owne making , that is , of your crazed imagination . But how shall this humor of yours suit with the unity of a Church ? can many shreads of cloth make a garment , and doe not you remember that Christs coat was without a seame ? Nay , for that you care not , you will be very loth to plead right in Christs Testament ; My peace I leave you ; for a needlesse feare to be polluted with the antichristianisme of Ecclesiasticall courts . These who are in Civill or Ecclesiasticall power , may from thence learne , what a narrow circle you confine them within ; nor should they take this ill , when some of you , the Antinomians , doe pretend immunity from the morall Law , the Law of God himselfe ( perhaps they dreame of a Patentee by the Gospell ) and tell us with Pharabo , in the pride and hardnesse of their hearts , Who is the Lord that we should obey him ? But I hasten to your next . Then you labour with tooth and naile to untie the obligement of the Chaos , and tell us first , That the Law for reformation never intended to allow or set up Popery in England , nor I hope to deface Christianity . What the intention of the Law hath been , and how understood hitherto , whether shall we believe the Law it selfe , the articles , the canons , the rubrickes , the service of the Church , the statutes of Parliament , the joynt consent and practice of all good men , and learned Writers ( these without a seeming difference , give approbation to the present Liturgie and government of the Church ) or you , who is filius terrae , a Mushrume , a sonne of yesterdayes ? your selfe conceit deserves my pity , not my refutation , and having by your pulse found out your fever , pardon me if I refuse to take such a verdict upon your trust , untill you be restored to your wits , neither then must you expect to be ballanced with so many contrary pregnant testimonies . Your second is yet of a higher reach , All humane lawes contrary to Gods Word are invalid and voyd , ipso facto , and all must be such , to the which your infallibility is not pleased to give approbation . Tel me , I pray you , whether should the Judges , or your selves determine the integrity of the Law ? if they , why doe not you attend their determination ? how is it , that the hand must reforme the head , the people their Prince ? and doe you thinke petitions , covenants , and insurrections the surest gradations to the Kingdome of Heaven ? But if your selves onely , what need have you of Judges ? Magistracie , and Trienniall Parliaments are to you but cyphers , and visible nothings ; your consent is the figure which makes the number : for if old Lawes be to be repealed , it is sufficient , if you say , These are against the Word of God , no more obedience from you ; your Sic volo sic jubeo is more than powerfull , the wall of each Citie must to the ground at the voyce of your rams-hornes . And if new Lawes be to be made , it seemes it is you that truch with the Scepter ; unlesse your wise heads finde them agreeable to the Word of God , all is voyde ipso facto : What language is this ? Is it not the Dial●ct of rebellion ? the very {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} , the Tactus physicus of all disorder , mutinie , and confusion ? Now let the world judge betwixt us , whether or not this your Doctrine strikes home to the very life of government , and destroyes it insensibly , as the worme that Gourd of Jonas : every man , by this ipso facto of yours , is left with a supreame power to bee King and Priest to himselfe . Your third ground is of the same bullion , and carryeth your Image , that is , of Schisme and Democracie : You have vowed against all Popery , and finding the particulars mentioned to be so , you will have no more communion with them . What if you should finde the Decalogue , and the Lords Prayer ( as you have already the Creed ) to be Popish , must not all the Principles of our Religion , for your pleasure , be drawne within the verge of a thundring abjuration ? nor is this feare in vaine : your precisest Gospellers already deny the Law , as only suteable to the Climate of the Jewes , and some of your best Rabbies make it a case of conscience not to say the Lords Prayer , that Magicum canticum ( as they tearme it ) Pontificorum ; if therefore this wantonnesse of yours bee not restrained , I appeale to your selves ( that is , to prejudice and faction it selfe ) if we shall have more certainty of Religion left us , then what may subsist with the ebbing and flowing of your distempered and Moone-changing braines . It is your next care to draw the Parliament to your party ; but there is no communication betwixt light and darkenesse : nature hath taught all Entities to intend their owne preservation ; nor can that Honourable Court forget its beeing , and ioyne with you : plant you at such a distance , whether your antipathy may reach , you shall no lesse exhaust the priviledges and authority of that most honourable meeting , then the Cabage doth the sap and life , and vigour of the noble Vine : can this bee more evident than by the case in hand , where you take the Supremacie upon you , and with intollerable pride and foolishnesse presumes to give us the infallible sense and meaning of the Parliament : I know you had no such Commission from their Honours , as to bee their trenchman , and to print a Declaration for them . But let us examine your reasons . First , They intended the Protestation against all Papery . It is granted : but are you not like the doore that turneth all day upon the hinges , and never changeth its place ? Have you yet proved these things to be Popish ? nay , though you had , ( which you shall never doe , — rumpantur utilia codro . ) were the probabilities of your arguments , a warrant good enough for your reformation , without the approbation of your Superiours ? you indeed never desire a better , whilst you doe what seemes good in your owne eyes , acknowledging no King in Israel . But who gave you authority to cleanse the Temple , unlesse you mantaine that all power is from the people , ( your hands ) and that you may stop the wel-spring , the fountaine , when the fit takes you . Secondly , You remember us that the Honourable House of Commons will not have the Protestation extended to the maintenance of any forme of worship , discipline , and government ; nor of any Rites and Ceremonies of the Church of England , and therefore they condemne them as Popish ? What a wild consequence is this ? if that pious Judicatory did not finde it convenient ( as it is not ) to assert the grounds of Doctrine and Discipline with the same oath ; did they therefore condemne all as Antichristianisme ? that they did not is cleare to any that will not shut his eyes : first , from the maine distance they put betwixt Popery and Popish Innovations , and the forme of Worship , Discipline , Government , and Ceremonies of the Church of England , interserted by such a period , as your ends shall never be able to draw together : Secondly , from their laudable and religious practice , in being at all occasions present at the service of the Church , wherein none but Familists ( who doe conforme themselves to any publike worship ) can imagine their integrity and noblenesse , for all the world would prevaricate , if they had but thought ( much lesse declared ) the Liturgie , as you would have it , to be the masse-booke . And for the government of the Church by Archbishops and Bishops ( this is the heell you would most willingly bruise , because it bruiseth your head ) it is no lesse evident that the protestation doth not condemne that : First , from their actuall sitting in the House , should these members integrate that body , if they were already adjudged as ●ims of the Antichrist ? this were a too heterogenious fancie : Secondly , what needed the late dispute concerning the present Discipline , if the sentence had beene already past ? Thirdly , would so considerable men for honesty , wisedome and power , of that number , whose reasons militates for Episcopacie have stood up in defence of a maine branch of Popery , and not have beene ashamed ( if not punished ) for publike maintaining the Antichrist , and contradicting their late vow and order ? These reasons , nill you will you , doe convince you , that it was not the intention of the Parliament ( as you to arme them against Ecclesiasticall persons and orders in every corner of the kingdome would beare the people in hand ) to protest against ( though it seemed not fitting to protest for ) the present Discipline , Government and Ceremonies of the Church ; if you had a fore-head , you would be ashamed of this boldnesse , but your obduration hath no more sense , Quam si dura silex , aut stet Marpesia cautes . These great patrons of Church and State , shall no doubt punish this malepert saucinesse of yours ; for their love to peace and truth cannot permit such a firebrand to belie their int●ntion , and abuse the credulous simplicity of the multitude : I am confident this reply of mine shall first visit you in the Gate-house . Did you , I beseech you , ever thinke it possible , that the roarings and out-cries of such braying schismatikes as your selfe , could have induced the honourable Court of Parliament to change upon a sudden the whole face of the Church , as that of a scene , upon the daring and misgrounded information of your ignorant & malicious libels : the drosse , the off-scourings of the multitude are yours ; these , and these only , you are able to induce by promises , or deceive by pretences : Tell them , as you doe , that they are the people of God , set apart for the great worke , and shall not this ambition blow up the unconstant vulgar ? Shew them they may change their fortunes , and last share in the publike government , you may draw them along with you to the slaughter , though there you leave them with your grand-father Munsers benediction , Si quidem populus vult decipi , decipiatur . But doe you expect that the grave States-men of the kingdome shall be pleased to venture upon this Chaos , and let you shuffle the cards againe , in hopes of a better set ? your parity brings along with it an Anarchie , and that , all imaginable ruine and confusion ; I 'll tell you in your eare , you had better keepe your Pamphlets at home , and have restrained the late zealous sturs at Southwarke and Saint Margarets , if you would not have had your passions detected ; these staring lookes of yours so soone after the change , do fore-tell what madnesse you may come to at the heighth of the Moone , and will ( no doubt ) perswade that supreme Judicatory either to draw blood of you in time , or to provide manacles for binding up your furious attempts , lest you teare out your owne bowells . Your third reasons leanes to a thought , a supposition , and is a straine of your old lunacy ; That the honourable House of Commons did intend to exclude whatsoever should be found to be a branch of popery . But who should finde it so ? themselves , or you ? Have they resigned that power which God , his Majesty , and their ancient privileges have indued them with , into your hands ? must they and we be tyed to what fancy your humour shall be pleased , to thrust upon their just commands , and our due obedience ? This were a dangerous implicit faith , and of as large bounds and great variety , as there is judgements and opinions in a kingdome : for shame ( if you be reasonoable creatures ) spare this non-sense ; and rather thinke that the protestation hath an edge to cut out your tongue , than to cut off what your unsetled imagination after a Fridayes supper from the back of an Oister shall Dictator-like happen to belch up . You tell us in the fourth place : That you are all in an erected hope of a reformation from this most noble Parliament ; and so are we too ; yea , no lesse confident than your selves , that all Popish trash shall be made packing ; but may it please you to go along with that baggage , and attend the safe transportation of these fopperies , we shall be rid of two great evils ; at your returne from Rome , you may take your rest by the way with your brethren at Amsterdame ; no peace for Israel how long the Jebusites are thornes in our sides ; and if the Papists and you ( I cannot tell how to name you , unlesse it be Legions , you are so many ) the Foxes , the boutefeux joyn'd by the tailes were once removed , wee should have good hopes no more to see our corn-fields in a fire . The reformation you expect , is a deformation ; your active zeale extends to the purifying of Churches , yea , of Church-yards ; as lately one of your societie was buried in the fields , lest his sanctified body might be polluted by consecrated , that is , superstitious ground : a strange separation that hold even amongst the dead : But when you have banished from us all that can speake as Christians , what shall be the event ? the sad ruines of a torne Church and State , yea , of Religion it selfe is at the stake : for the more weake and conscientious people , who expect salvation in some Church , will rather joyne with Rome , then have no Church at all , like the fish , changing the hot water with the hotter fire ; others , who have made Religion their hand-maide , shall be bold to laugh at piety , and thinke it nothing but an invention of policy , to bridle the humours of the lesse daring , and to encompasse the designes of the more active wits ; so the fruits of your reformation shall be like these of Gomorra , pleasing to the sight , but in effect either Apostacie , or Athisme . In your fifth ground I acknowledge your perfect idiome , the compleat language of Amsteldame ; their you tell me , that suppose the House of Commons had , not intended the removall of these things , but the protection rather of the same , yet private Christians must put to their bands , and reforme themselves , and live no longer schoole-boyes and punies under the fernla of that discipline : Now you speake to the point , and have but dallied hitherto . Bishops I see and Parliaments are in the same respect to you , if once they crosse your humour ; if this be not a trumpet of sedition , there is nothing so . Goe on , and give not over till the Common-wealth be fitted to your Church ( as one of yours said , the hangings to the roome ) let us have that prodigious monster , your parity , in both , without so much as distinction of head and feet , and then you may reforme when , and what , and how you please . Can there be the least thought of loyalty and subjection beneath this , when such an o yes is made for every man to take up armes , and to reforme what first comes unto his hand ? nor is it a wonder to heare this from you ; e're all be done you will speake with a higher tone , even that the propriety of all goods is your owne : For it is your doctrine that wee have fallen from all dominion and right to the creature by the mortall sinne of Adam ; this , say you , was restored by Christ , who reserved the dominion to himselfe ( there your love to Magistracy ) but gave the right to his children , the sonnes of the Church , these whom the conventicle hath assured that they are marked with the white stone , you may therefore possidere terram , and who besides you doe so , are but usurpers . Yet give mee leave to wonder , if in a settled Church and state some care be not taken to supresse this madnesse , whereby every man is invited to a freedome and liberty of doing what his humour suggesteth ; as if this Diana of yours inspired nothing else but phrensie and rebellion : You will by this your exorbitancie , make the Bishops enemies long after them , and while they are going out at doores , pull them backe by the gownes : in the time of their power , which of you durst vent such dangerous whimsies ; now you teach us , that by one blow wee cannot lop off the inconveniencie of Bishops , and the inconveniencie of no Bishops , and that the greatest danger in a mutation is that all daugers cannot be fore-seene : if this popular reformation of yours take root for Religion , Learning and civilitie , wee must content our selves with prophanenesse , ignorance and barbarity , nay , all the evills that anarchie and confusion can produce must attend upon us . But the honourable House of Commons , against whom by this reason you have taken up the bucklers , will provide for that fire , that gangrene of yours , which hath already inflamed the bed-straw , and ceased almost upon the very heart of the Kingdome . In your sixt answer delt your strokes about you ; your first blow is at the Liturgy ; this you observe to bee popish in two respects . First , in regard of the whole frame and matter of it , as being translated out of the Romish Latine Liturgie : But is it not the Romish Liturgie translated ? That is , are there any thing in the Masse Booke , which is not in the booke of service ▪ if your answer be negative , I leave you to bee hissed at ; but if affirmative , What advantage have you gotten by this envious calumny ? Doe you thinke we may not use what is in the Masse booke consonant to Scripture , and purest antiquity ? to say otherwise , were to deny the Lords prayer and the Decalogue , because they are there : Indeed I thinke you intend no lesse then a perfect reformation from Rome , that is , a flat denyall of all that ever Rome maintained , so much doth your new Creed proport : God grant you doe not deny Christ to be the Sonne of God , because the Devills confessed him to be so . Tell mee in good earnest , are you so silly as to conceive that there have beene Heretiques before your selves , who durst adventure to have nothing common with preceding Christianity ? And why may there not be some few pearles in that dung-hill , the masse-booke ? If these be culled out , and according to Scripture , and the best patterne of ancient Liturgies , most judiciously framed for the service of our Church , what can malice or ignorance say against it ? no greater errour in you , and our other enemies of Rome , than not to distinguish betwixt the purging of an old Church , and the building of a new ; they upbraid us , because they say it is so , you because you thinke it is not so ; all must be admitted from them , errours with truths , all rejected by you , truthes with errors : they destroy the perfection of the Scripture , you the being of the Church ; you no lesse enemies to the authoritie of this , then they to the beliefe of that . But let both of you roare like the Lyonesse bereaved of her whelps , and mixe heaven and earth together by your lowings , Naaman shall be the same man to us before and after his washing , wee will in despight of papists cleanse the leprosie , in spight of you retaine the substance ; you mention the late parallel , in a Mathematicall sense , justly so called ; for as Lines parallel cannot be in one point coincident : so neither the Service booke with that of the Masse : he is an ungratious sonne of the Church , who hath falsly invented these whoredomes , and they the unworthy off-spring of such a mother , if they rest unrevenged . Meane time what a death it is to thinke of the sport and advantage our watchfull enemies will be sure to make of our self-confession , that we have the same publike worship which in them we doe condemne as heresie , as idolatrie ? what exporbrations , what triumph of theirs will hence ensue ? How shall we argue against them without bespattering our owne faces in time to come ? all our helpe is that the Treatise it selfe ( the parallell ) is so ridiculous a peece , that it will bee thought the dreames of a sleeping person , and ( they say ) Dormientes non tenentur de j●re , we are not answerable for the fact . You tell us , you omit to say , what you cannot , you dare not say , all your frivolous exceptions are so fully answered by the learned Mason , judicious Hooker , and others , that it will be three ages yet ere you attaine to so much judgement as to understand their discourses : why doe you gull the world with these bravadoes , such generall flashes , and when it comes to the close , to the dispute , — frustra comprensa manus affugit imag● , Par levibus ventis volucrique fimillima som●● . No word of you then : if we dare call the settled Lawes of Church and State in question , we shall by the meanest of five thousand in England stop your blacke and ignorant mouthes , and make you confesse , there is nothing conteined in that Booke which is not agreeable with Scripture , suteable to Antiquitie , and allowable by the confessions and writings of the best reformed Churches and Divines in Europe . And you Sir , who hath made all this dinne , how should a man finde your out , either to convert you , or to be converted by you ? your name it seemes was affrighted of the title-page ; but it may be you had none , and that this libell hath been penn'd by you , in the interi●● betwixt your renunciation of that name you had from the Church of England , and your anabaptization . You adde there is vitious things ( animus meminisse horret ) that runne thorow all the veines of the Service Booke ; all the letters of the Alphabet cannot furnish censures for this blasphemous Rabshakeh ; God rebuke thee Satan . Sufficiently discovered ? by whom ? in whose age ? Did your Separatists ever produce any thing upon this subject , but lazie indigested fables , as farre from learning as their authors from sense . King Arthurs storie , a tale of Robin Hood , or the Bookes of Chivalrie , were ever thought more profitable non-sense , more judicious stuffe . Your second generall respect is , The imposition of the Liturgie upon all mens consciences ; let the matter be never so landable , yet the manner , the imposition , is a wile of the Antichrist : Here I entreat Geneva to answer you , whose Church hath an imposed , a set forme of Liturgie , and whose worthiest men , Calvin and Beza , doe stoutly maintaine the Churches power in prescribing Ceremonies and Orders for Unitie and Peace sake : It were easie to have loaden the Margine with quotations , if I had not abhorred the ostentive foolishnesse of your sect. Who runnes may reade here that in terminis terminantibus you brand all superioritie Ecclesiasticall , whether of King , Church , or Parliament ( for all these are included in this imposition ) with the minsing titles of Popery and Antichristianisme ; if this be the reformation you intend , that no law can please you , much good may it doe you , and those that desire it : I am confident the Church and State of England are not so wearie of themselves as to become slaves to your fancie ; this perhaps may fit America , where there is no government at all , but how it may subsist with a being of a kingdome here , I understand it not . Popery ( you say ) is Antichristianisme , hence every Papist must be the Antichrist ; nor stay you here , but bring the matter home from Italie to England , and tell us by a necessarie consequence ; that not Bishops onely , but all Superiours doe oppose and overthrow the Kingly office of Christ , which is incommunicable to any creature and power in heaven or earth , bona verba quaeso . The Scripture you bring 2 Ioh. 22. is as farre from the point as you from truth and judgement : Speake out , dare you say it in open termes , though indeed you say as much , that the King and Parliament , because of the Liturgie imposed have denyed Jesus to be Christ ? Tiburne for you if you doe . You indeed seem rather stained with this blasphemie , who hath boldly and prophancly averred , that bowing at that sacred name is idolatrie , and ( as you jeere with the bad thiefe on the crosse ) Jesu-worship . But let me from your own principles use one argument against you ; whosoever prescribeth to their people a set forme of prayer , doe Lord it over the conscience , and are the very Antichrist , but your extemporarie prayers in publike are to your people a set forme of prayer , you therefore are the Antichrist . The major is your owne , the subsumption is proved by this inevitable dilemma ; when you pray before your hearers , either it is as their mouth to God , or for your selves only : if you say the last , you contradict the action it selfe , your expressions , and the cause of your meeting ; and if the first , must not the people joyne with you in word , or at least , in thought ? and is not this to bee stinced and tyed to aforme of prayer how raw and senselesse so ever ? By your sole Law-giver , you expresse your thoughts of authoritie ; you can heare of no generall commission for ordering the House of God as place and time shall require ; but pardon me to beleeve the Apostle better then you , who hath not in vaine appointed this qualification , Omnia fiant decenter & ordine ; if the Kings and States of Europe would bee pleased from this your tenet to learne what a moath , a cancer-worme you are to all Superioritie and Iurisdiction , you would be sent novos quaeritare orbes . And for this cause the Pope , say you , is proved to be the Antichrist , in that hee fitteth in and over the Temple of God , that is , as you please to Paraphrase it , The consciences of men : it had beene well you had spoken with application ; you are the onely men I know , who must have all mens consciences squared by the supposition of your owne . The will-worship you name is truely that you practise , that is , an affected contradictorious way in the service of God to Scripture , to Antiquitie , to the Church you live in , to Discretion , yea to Christianitie it selfe . If by a Liturgie devised by men , you understand mans devise , it is a grosse calumnie , a notorious untruth , not a syllable in that Booke , which is not either ( as the greater part ) the words of Scripture it selfe , or cleerely deducible in the very Phrase from thence ; if your sense be , that it is imposed by humane power , you are no lesse mistaken ; there is either a particular warrant from Scripture , or at the least a generall Commission granted for the ordering of the House of God , which extends to the full latitude of the Booke , if you had either impartialitie to conceive aright , or conscience to obey ; but it may be you meane that men have contrived the Booke of Liturgie , so they have the Apostles Creed , which perhaps you for the same reason have rejected ; nor was ever the Church of God since the first Congregation of the Jewes in a politicke bodie , to your last and worst dayes , without a publike forme of service and worship . We bid you therefore with Saint Augustins , Erigere scal●● , and goe up to heaven alone , but againe , Dat● venia●● , nos non credimus , that all the Churches of the Christian world have beene over-laid with Idolatrie and Antichristianisme , till this late one of yours . Having choaked ( as you think ) the Liturgie with this illpeec't discourse of yours concerning the Antichrist , your second onset is upon the Ceremonies of the Church ; these you say because of mans devising and imposed upon the Conscience are also Popery : you give no new reason , nor I any new answer , onely this , there is no greater errour committed by you Sectaries , then that because the Church of Rome hath thrust upon us some unnecessary , many superfluous Ceremonies , you would have the reformation to have none at all , not confidering that Ceremonies as the hedge , doe fence the substance of Religion from the indignities that prophanenesse and irreligion oftentimes put upon it . Ceremonies though in the particular , that is , This or that , be not necessarie , in the generall they are ; how long we are men , and do inhabite these our dull bodies , we had much need of some visible helps to sti●re up our Devotion , and to give a being , a continuitie to publike decencie and order : It is true , the inward worship of the heart , is the great service of God , but the outward worship of God , is the great witnesse to this , whereby our light shineth to the world , that men may glorifie our Father which is in Heaven ; now no outward worship without Ceremonies , they , the ancienter ( superfluity and Superstition laid aside ) the better , so they fit time and place : for you , your are so spirituall , ( though some think you no lesse carnall then your neighbours ) I am afraid your Religion , may evapour in words , turne in the smoak of a thin airy profession , and as no substance of good works , so leave no visibility of worship behind it ; though now while the heat of a party keeps in the fire , you seem to have some zeal in your breasts , if you were settled on your dregs , and after this great motion returned to your cold bloud , it is very possible you shall have no Religion 〈◊〉 all . It were not hard to tell you here what happinesse Christians doe enjoy by the wholsome constitutions of a Church or State ; what peace , what unity , what concord , what increase of ●●ll p●ety and vertue from thence . And unity , if it be not nature it selfe , it is the first principle riveted by the hand of nature , no essence , no action without this sicknesse and Rebellion , the two great confusions of the naturall and politique body do evidence this truth , no subsistence , no continuation of other , but by a first cause , a prime agent , even your discipline must have unity and order in it , if it have life and motion ; and this the more generall it is , the better : It s true , the extension of good is not its touchstone , yet this doth not hinder it to be communicative , and that to the dimension of the body which is to be governed . But now the matter imposed is left in its own nature indifferent still , though not so in the practice , and why this very same restraint enlargeth then Christian liberty , for otherwise they would be in conscience obliged to abstain from every thing that the nice and peevish humorist should conceive to be offensive , now , being tyed by a Law , they may use their freedome , yea , must preferre a necessary duty to an imaginarie scandall . But this were to digresse , nor are you for such peaceable thoughts , for you love that order and not any besids it , that may be raked out of the ashes of Monarchy , but your late injuries meeting with its discretion will teach a necessity of foresight , not to adventure huge bodies as you are , quia su● feruntur pondere , downe steepe hills , that is , to your owne swinge . But you could soon reply to me that not to abstaine for every offence though in a case commanded by lawfull authoritie , were soul-murder , and against the sixth Commandement , and that the authority so commanding were Antichristian : which how it may agree with a Legislative power in King or in Parliament , and how comply with the Presbyteriall or Parochiall government more then with that of Bishops , I professe I do not understand , all superioritie , all imposition , all publique order and common decency is a popish and antichristian usurpation of Christs scepter . Your third endeavour is against the discipline of the Church in exercising the power of Excommunication ; this you prove to be another branch of Popery , because it is from the Church of Rome : you may with the same pains argue Christ and his Apostles to have been popish , who are the undoubted authors of that power , but you doe well to deny all censures , having already denyed all Lawes , Superiors , and Judges , least you might happen be punished for this contumacie . You tell us of the Homilies , and what doe you think are meant by the third mark , the true discipline there ? it must be either this of ours , or that of yours : yours are not at all , that we have heard of , nor needs there discipline where there is neither Law nor injunction ; if this of ours , the homilies stand up and witnesse against you : but your aime is to prove the Church of England by the book of Homilies to be no Church at all ; I pray you , how were they Homilies , but by the Church ? this is to prove by a Church that we have no Church at all . a Logick indeed that beseems your conventicles , where repugnantia in adiecto is attended by willfull malice and grosse ignorance . Now , this cleer deniall of a Church , how agreeth it with your advise of reformation ? motus supponit non facit subiectum , nor can we reforme that Church which as yet is not gathered together ; I know by your breath you are an actuall Separatist , who have some years agoe condemned the whole body of this Church to hell and perdition , though now to insinuate your self the better you appear ( as your master before you ) sometime as an Angel of light . You adde the not due Administration of the Sacraments ; Did you never think that rightly done , till in Germany the holy Supper ( with all reverence to that sacred mystery be it spoken ) was given by one of your number after some long winded orations from the back of an oyster board to his fellow sitting Communicanter in brown bread and small beare : It was say you , the pride and delicacie of the Antichrist , that first used a wheat loaf and wine , nor will you have us in this ( though in other things to the very communicating in an upper room , as you doe , and after supper ) follow the example of Christ , he , you tell us ( horr●sco refer●us ) was content with the ordinary and native elements of the Countrey , and so must we be too . But the Church of England doth no lesse hate the absurd Popish Transubstantiation , then your foolish sacramentary bare representing signes : both sacrificall and Sacramentary let them goe packing for her , and so that other Sacrament of Baptisme , though you have vainly nibbled about the signe of the crosse , ( no lesse hatefull and Idolatmus to you , then ridiculous and shamefull to the Pagans of old ) yet when it comes to the push of an argument , you deserve nothing but Virgils description of his evanishing apparitions : Ingenti trepidare metu : parstollere vocem Exiguam : incoeptus clamor frustratur hiantes . In spight of you and all wrangling opposites , the Church of England , as the purity , so shall ever retein her decency as beseemeth so high actions in dispensing these sacred mysteries . The restraint and edicts you complain of were much indeed against your Catholike gift of preaching , but now I hope you have repayed that losse , when not a Sow-gelder among you who makes not hold with a tub for his pulpit , Dii , fi qua est Coelo pietas quae talia curet , persolvant grates dignas . The fourth plea is against the root of all bitternesse , the very heart and lungs of the Antichrist , the government of Bishops , each casuall mishap in them must be an errour , so will your Rabbies have to be , who deeming themselves lesse in imployment then in merit , doe heartily raile against that which they heartily desire , the Rochet . This you say is not of divine , therefore it must be of diabolicall institution , can you giue a reason of this consequence ? yes , I will helpe your to it , and from your owne grounds , all Lawes , impositions ; superiorities , ordinanc●s from men , are in your opinion , ( and this is no weak one ) usurped , tyrannicall , ●ntichristianty , and against the prerogative of Christ , who is the sole 〈◊〉 to the commonwealth of Israel in his spirituall Kingdome ; these are your wise religious thoughts , but what say you to your parishes , these were not instituted by Christ , here perhaps you will slip me and adhere to family , yea personall discipline , and withall bring your warrant for it , that Paul did send greeting to the Church at the house of Priscilla and Aquila : neither can I reach you here , I know not what customes you use in your rebaptization ; what say you of meeting together in private houses , and expounding a peece of Scripture ? for this you will alledge Apostolicall practice , and the same necessity , because of the persecution , and the same ( otherwise the Argument were nought ) infallibly too : what say you of the giving of the holy Supper to women ? this sure you dare not deny , least the Diaconists punish you , if I should remember you here of the baptizing of infants , the distinction of Apocryphical & canonicall Scripture the Apostles creed , you would presently stifle me with the noyse of tradition , the first and last of those you have taken an order with , and for the other , you desire no more testimony from or of scripture , then your owne , that is , of your own spirit , you are so naked in your outward worship ( as the wrestlers of old ) it is impossible to lay hold upon you , and so grumbling against all church custome and laws ( for what is not commanded in scripture is to you contramandat , and shall so be to us too if you grant a generall power , and rest not only upon particulars ) that I can finde nothing materiall of publike order and decencie to lay to your charge . I must therefore goe about to prove the government of Bishops to be of Divine institution , or nothing , and here I will take the surest way , that is to shew the Divine institution of Episcopacy from Christ himselfe , not from the precept and practices of the Apostles , else you would s●ip out of my fingers and tell me , that if not by the blessed Apostles themselves ( as one of yours said ) yet in their time this mistery of iniquity of Antichristianisme , did begin to worke . My assertion is therefore and with better ground then your deniall of all authority , that the apostolicall office it self , in its proper & reciprocal acts , was nothing els but the Episcopall ( I see you startle & chang your complexion ) as it is now a dayes exercised in the church of England : whether the ordination of that function was , Ioh. 21. 15. or 20. 22. or as others more probable by these words , as my Father sent me so send I you in the same place , and at the same time were Bishops ordained : These are the Apostles successors in asse et ex solido in all things that ever was assentative to their office ; as to call the Disciples and elders of the Church ( not theirs who come with sword● and pistols to maintaine the truth ) together , Act. 12. 2. 20. 17. v. or divine Prosbytors . Act. 14. 25. to give direction for Church censures 1 Corinth . 5. 5. to make lawes and canons Ecclesiasticall . 1 Cor. 11. 2. to require observation of the same 1 Cor. 16. 1. Now the gifts of immediate calling universall commission , infallibility , long●●● , and miracles , were 〈◊〉 , in the Apostles nor officiall , but personally only extraordinary , and for the imployments of the time ▪ neither indeed can that be called apostolicall , which is not proper to , and convertible with the Apostles , but all these extraordinary inducements were in others besides them , and in the E●angelists , in Philip the Deacon , or in the Disciples , though not all of them in every one of these 〈…〉 essentiall to that office in constituendo , but the Acts of Ordination and Iurisdiction : these the Apostles as Apostles once had , and these by the same right of Institution , transmitted by the succession of many ages to the present Bishops . 〈◊〉 you angry at this ( stant Lumina flamma ) and it may be it may doe your good , if you shall happen to empty your stomack of some loathsome humors at the view of this position , nor have you a possible way , for all your windings to get about it , unlesse you either maintaine that the office of the Apostles , in its very 〈◊〉 was extraordinary ( and then no office , 〈◊〉 an inducement , a gift ) and nothing usefull for our times , which your Schismes , as many of them , as you are of men , will not suffer us to beleeve ; or that each of you , and not the Bishops onely are the 〈◊〉 of the Apostles , and then would we gladly see you give Imposition of hands ( as they did ) and pronounce the sentence of Excommunication , without the consent or assistance of your lay-brethren , and inspired-parishoners , but you divide the coat , seemlesse before , betwixt you . You have better right , I thinke , to the extraordinary gifts , as that of immediate calling , when you dispise the Orders of the Church , & tel us the Imposition of hands was the ceremony of a miracle if you can presume upon your abilities , and obtaine the hummings of a factious congregation , you have your calling , and are sent by God : that of universall commission , when the reformation of all Kingdom●s is alike to you ; 〈◊〉 parishes must confine the single gifts of others , but a whole nationall Church , not your double qualifications , that of infal●ibility , when you obtrude your sense of Scripture ; the Fathers are but dull tapers to your bright stars , they more of kinn to the Antichrist than you ; if you thinke you have found a text for it they ( good men ) must be Heretikes , no more disprite , you cannot erre , that of miracles was never more believed by the popish ridiculous Legends , than by you , Iohannes de Vordg . fained something that deserved the name of a wonder , but your Rabbies , to the laughter of the hearers , content themselves with each common accident , ) this they will have to fall out by the strength of their prayers , either for the confusion of the reprobate , as they call them , or the furtherance of the good cause ; nor are they satisfied to give ( which every Christian must and should ) the determination of all successes to Almightie God . but they in a presumptuous holines will be upon his sacred counsels , prey into his secrets , and boldly designe a particular end for his divine providence in every thing . Only the gift of tongues , I cannot tell how to fix upon you , and withall not polute you with ( which God knowes you are not guilty of the language 〈…〉 ) You see now I have not troubled 〈◊〉 conscience with Timothy and Titus ( and the●e shall be still Bishops to me ; while you prove the circular and monethly changes ) I have derived the originall of Episcopacy from the Apostles Office ; not their authority ; Doubt not therefore if Bishops be 〈…〉 , unlesse you doubt if the Apostles were so , or because of your love of parity you thinke them of that same order with the seaventy Disciples , deny if you dare that the institution of our blessed Saviour Iesus Christ were divine , and I give you the bucklers , as to neg antibus principia . Thus have I flourished with you ; it were a shame to bestow a blow in earnest upon such a poor smatterer as your selfe , I have ever thought it the best refutation of you and of your cause , to lay your foolish impertinences open to the eye of the world , then I am assured onlie these who love to have their braines suspected , would give you the least approbation . You finde in the administration of the Episcopacy office the perfect image of the papall beast from horne to hoose ; but stay and take it home to yourselfe , who a●e the only beasts I know amongst men , if irrationality and passion , can argue want of Iudgement , and turbulency in affections , your plurality of marriages ( the old licence o● the Germane Anabaptists ) your love Feasts , your night me●tings can abundantly witnesse this ; your absurd simplici●y and ignorance in this and other your libels give testimony of that , it is not altogether a mistake of religion but aliquod naturae vitium , a hypocondriacie a fault in your braine , that causeth your ravings ( hence I incline to thinke this humor of yours may be epedemicall because of some 〈◊〉 ) & this to be as physio logists transformed ( as the life quoad act● secundum ) a man in a beast . But I have mistaken you , all this time you m●ane the papal beast the Antichristianisme , I pray you if his definition can fit you , who sit in the house of God and opposeth●l ( Magistrates ) that are called Gods ; only in this you differ , that Gods house is mistaken for your owne : nor shall we want an individuality , it is no lesse in the unity of your covenants and oaths of secrecie , than in the successive race of the Bishops of Rome . You are pleased to call the ministers a dumbe preisthood , a mockery : what disgrace is this to the Church , to these that have baptisme from her , or doe expect salvation in her ? You have indeed named them bald-pate● , with those ungracious children , but take your seat for it in the first Psalme , and there stay for your punishment . Doctors with us and Priests doe pronounce the sentence of excommunication , and with no more indecency , we thinke , than if some reverend Cobler , or inspired Button maker did the same ; give me leave to remember you here of the late schisme of your congregation at Rotterd 〈◊〉 ; they upon debate were divided in two bodies ; each of them was the supreame Church of God upon earth , and each of them gave commission to an honest Weaver to excommunicate the other ; this cannot but please you well ( though your discipline cannot ) because there is neither reason , nor order in it . I thinke it strange , that you who deny all outward calling except that from the people , should think the Curates , None of the Ministers of Christ in that they derive their ministery from the Antichristian Hierarchy , if no orders be necessary , sure a mistake of orders cannot be much prejudiciall . Hence let the world judge how both these mal●cious factions spend their fury upon the Church of England ; the papists object that shee hath for feited her ordination , you that she hath one , but the papists they tell us we are noe Church because we want a Priesthoood , you , because we have one : They will here of none but a Monarchicall subjection , you doe establish a democracy in the Church or an anarchy rather ; they complain of perjury , because we refuse to maintain their orders ( as if who amongst them had sworne canonicall obedience to a heriticall Bishop , were obliged to be a heretike ) you of the want of purity , because we doe not renounce all continuation and orders of the Church . In spight of you both she shall still maintaine a visible succession in the mi●istery from the very Apostles times : may not the Church of Rome though in her old age more faulty , give baptisme , and may not this warrant the derivation of our orders from her first and better times ? but I crave you mercy Sir , this argument do●h not concerne you , who not after the Church of Rome only , but also in the Church of England , doe rebaptize . You frame here an objection to your self concerning the antiquity of Arch-Bishops , & Dio●esan Bishops ( this you adde to distinguish them from these of the late edition for parishes ) and how doe you answer it ? First you tell us they were not knowne by the primitive Fathers ; but this is as grosse as to say the primitive fathers did not know themselves , whom we undoubtedly know by a morall beliefe to have beene Bishops , as we doe that the Saxons did here succeed the Britaines : scarce a leafe in the Councels , Fathers , and Church histories that doth not speake this for us . Secondly , you tell us that government was corrupt even from the well-head , but since I have proved to you that this was Christ ( the Apostles you will venture upon ) I hope you will mend your expression , and retire . Thirdly , you will have this government a● limbe of papacy , and I dare boldly-say it , there is nothing more destructive of it , for to maintaine that every Bishop is de jure divin● ( as you in the same place grant that the present bishops of England do ) is 〈◊〉 only to deny all dependence from Rome but to give her her deaths wound by lopping of the prerogative whereby she subsists ; for by vertue of this , 〈…〉 come to her , dispensations from her , exemptions of 〈◊〉 and religious houses ( the maine pillers ) which if the bishops of Europe by man-seeming there office to be de jure divino , would challeng as an usurpation , her borrowed fathers might ; perhaps returne home to the first own ; 〈◊〉 . You say the Pope and the Bishops of England hold their authority by the 〈…〉 ●amely from Christ , so I hope duth the meanest 〈◊〉 sweeper amongst you his calling to preach , to expound scri●pture , to give the Sacraments , and yet will be oftended , if you think him or his argument popish , though the Pope of Rome doe the very same here , like your selfe , that is , a very compound of absurdity , and boldnesse , you mention Doctor Hall , and his learned paines : out upon thee for a fool , and a babler ! The workes of that reverend , p●infull , and judicious bishop , shall be entertained by the posterity , with app●obation and thankfulnesse , when the better times shal ●isse thee and thy associat● out of the Church ; the quintessence of you al do come short to the meanest croatchet of his learning , judgement , integrity , & eloquence ; nor shall these your calumnies be ought els to him but stig●ata Laudis , cicatrices to testifie his conscience and resolution , who had the courage to set his face against you the Amalakites , when others turned the backe . For 〈◊〉 ; his very citation refutes you ; you say he failes in that he cannot prove Romes succession from Peter , and yet you have said , his assertion is that he proved Saint Gregoryes succession from Peter . But I forgive you , you knew not before now 〈…〉 it , that Gregori● was bishop of Rome . Now , what if I should teach you , that we in the Church of England , perhaps have neither Christianity nor sacred orders from Rome , s●re the first we had not : for by the observation of Easter according to the tradition of the Easterne Church ( To let the tale of Simon Zelotes , and Ioseph of Aramathe● passe ) it is most probable this Kingdome had the blessing of the Gospell from the Disciples of Iohn : if after the Saxon devastation we were restored by Rome , in some parts of the Iland , the Northerns at the same time ; were converted to the faith , by bishop Aydanus from Scotland ; as Beda mentions Lib. 3. Cap. 3. But this discourse is not for you , who in the preceeding page hath prophainly called the Ministry it selfe a pe●ce of Popery , whether from Rome or not is all one to you , such is your superlative hatred against all order . Give me leave here to slip out of the way , and meet with a friend of yours , the Author of The petition for Bishops examined ; this man tells us our Arch-Bishops , and Bishops were substituted to the places of the Ar●hflamins & Flamins of the heathens , this is a now conceit , that bishops are not from the new , but old Rome , not Antichristian but heathenish . Here for all the grace you bragg of you may learne of nature , that not the least shew of religion , except this mad one of yours , can subsist without 〈◊〉 cement , this harmony , the subordination in its office-betrers . But will he have the Bishops heathenish 〈…〉 joy the roomes designed for the residence of the Flamins , and are we not all Papists , yea Pagans , because such did once inhabit this kingdome ? Now I smel out the reason why you perswade so vehemently the pulling downe of Churches , it is because of some inherent wickednesse in the place . He saies further that the first foure or five hundred years there was Bishops in Scotland , but that ( as he cites Ioannes Maior ) communi Monachorū regebantur Concilio , but their histories are there for it , that Amphibalus was Bishop in the Isle of Man An. 237. and for some 100 of yeares after the Monkes were not so much as reckoned among the clergy , much lesse had they dominion over them . In the close of this answer you are assured that the Government is protested against . If such a worme as my self might presume to speak of that Honorable Iudicaturie and the p●otestation made by it , I might upon better grounds argue , that you and your sectaries , are within the reach of the same : my instance shall be in one point ( when I might in a hundred ) that of Magistracie , your doctrine concerning it , is point-blanck against the doctrine of the Church of England , the Kings honor and estate , the power and priviledg of Parliaments , and that for to use your termes , deserveth to be cut off and cast out as a fruitlesse withered branch , and to be plucked up by the roots as a tree twice dead , and as a plant not of Gods Planting . Hitherto I might have taken you up by some paines , but now you passe all understanding : fall you once upon the businesse of reformation , you rave perfectly , like these Lunaticks who will perhaps speak sense , doe they encounter with the purpose that first chased them out of their witts , then streight they run out . Sir , by laughing at you , you have spared me the cost of Physick for expelling malancholy . Your first assertion is that it will be impossible to constitute a nationall Church agreeable in all points to the visible Congregation of Christ : here you no lesse crosse the Consisteries than the Bishops ; and therefore it shall be convenient to leave you to their refutation . It is your bragge , that there is many thousand Saints , whose hearts are perfect before God , that is pleasing to you : and shall these empty Pitchers , these factious lights , these trumpets of intent , multiplyed to make a noyse , afright the Kingdome ? I dare say , that if from your party you deduce mad men and fooles ( and none of these , are men envied ) with such as love for their owne ends , to fish in your muddy waters , scar●e a number , yea scarse an unity shall remaine ; though you try the Sword of the Lord and of Geddon , as a friend of yours did in another Kingdome , the Church and state of England , will ever have prudence to detect your Stratagems , and courage to award your blowes . What you meane by defiling of garments I know not , but I know you have lately provided against that by your naked meetings . Now you speake plaine Language in perswading a separation , and , forcing us to believe , we are in no better condition than those Heathens to whome the Apostles first peached the Gospell ; for you tell us the Sheep must be called forth , and gathered into Christs Folds , and that it is a strange speech be you separate . You therefore will begin ab ovo , and call together the Holy ones , to make up your new houshold congregations : but how shall these be discended ? Onely by the infallibility and presumed omniscience of your spirit , that of Errour , not that of truth ; you onely know these few names , and here you tell us that sca●se a number shall bee found to make up these holy meetings , what ? are all your thousands evanished , you boasted of in the last page ? oportuit mendacem esse memorem , but I take you at your last word , if there be so few ( as you profanely abuse that Scripture ) marked with the white stone in his Kingdome , pray you spare us the paines of Separation , separate your selves for some new colonie in Virginia , and trouble not your pates about unpossibiliti●s ; would to God you would leave us , or your madnesse you , and then both of us should be at rest . Now let the whole world judge if you be a fit man to usher in a reformation , and thus boldly to thrust your impious sense upon the protestation , ( made by the most honourable Parliament ) whose head is fraughted with such whimses , and who can heare of nothing but the gathering of a new Church in this Kingdome . And if we all had made a totall apostasy from the faith ; we should descry you blasphemously as the Apostles did when they came to plante Churches in a Country where the Gospell had not beene formerly preached ; not your eares , but your neck is in danger for this . But what answer you to the question , if they have not received Baptisme ? Or are they not Christians ? Here something sticks in your throat : you answer negatively , by an equipollent Metaphor , that the lame and blind are not to be offered up in a Sacri●ice to the Lord . Do you thus tempt the patience of the Prince and people ? Is it nothing for you to object Paganisme to them at every word ? To call them profane , ignorant , unbaptized , unchristian persons ? This were intollerable to any free soule , and must induce all those who have the smallest affection to generosity and Religion , to provide a way how such monsters as your selfe may be supprest . You goe on , and tell us the godly may not communicate with the profane . Quo Donate ruis ? are not al profane to you , that are good Church-men and obedient Subjects ? And must all these fall within the verge of your excommunication ? May we expect , dum viatores sumus , your contemplative perfection , or that the wheate shall be here without the chaffe ? And know you what iniquity some of your holy Sisters might have committed yesternight ? if you communicate with them , doe you partake of their profanation ? It may be you have so before , nor is it a sinne in you or her , but an oversight : I see there is a necessity laid upon us to search the hearts of men , to have their brests made of christall , to finde out their very thoughts , else no fellowship , no communion . But if every knowne sin be every mans , where is Christs burthen ? What difference put you betwixt the head and the branch ? Others uncleannesse can no more defile you , then your holinesse excuse them : if you be for this separation , you must either flye out of the world , or your flight is in vain ; the best metal here hath its drosse , the best graine its oftall , there is need indeed of a Fanne , and a Furnace , but not that of yours , destructive , not purging . Nor stay you here , all are Dogges and Swine to you that will not be of your kennell , nor wallow in your Puddle : so your Founders the Pharises upbraided Christ , with the name of a Wine bibber , and said he had a Devill , because he haunted with sinners and publicans , while they themselves cleansed onely the outside of the Platter , beware of their woe . A little Leaven leaveneth the whole Lumpe , never better knowne then of late by you , what couzenage and hypocrisie have these yeares by-gone hid up in the Masse from the eye of Disciplin : none must come to the Passeover except your selves , who have not washen your hands in innocency , but your tongues in the gall of Asps . You seeme to speake of knowne evill doers ; if you meane such as are under the Churches censures , you fight against your owne shadow , none such are admitted to partake of our holy mysteries ; but if you understand , as you doe , those of a contrary judgement to your selfe ( for it is the first , and your fancie about that , not the second Table , all this time you respect ) we pray for your health , and doe protest against your madnesse . Now I have found you out — Qualem primo qui s●rgere mense Aut videt aut vidisse putat per nubila iunam . And know how to take a direct aime : the reformation you ayme at is shorter laced then either consistories or parishes , there is a necessity of setting up other Congregations besides these ; here your intent is to have all reduced to families , old 〈◊〉 must be your Doctor and pastor , his wife Tib your diaconesse , his Sonne Die your ruling Elder , and the serving man Will your Deacon : a pretty Church indeed , and where none are to be admitted but such as are approved by the whole assembly ; he And his houshold , the supreame and only congregation upon earth ; not any beyond it in purity , above it in jurisdiction ; no more contest now for consistories , or Parochial Churches , you for the avoyding of profanenesse have assigned us a lesser circle — ipse ratem conto subigit — all will be well and you be at the Stearn . Is this your modell , your patterne of reformation ? It is so , ridiculous children will point at you and it in the streets ; if not for Christianity , yet for shame ●ake abstaine from such motions for the which the enemies dreaming you and the Church of England to be concentrike , nam● us no more Heretickes , but mad men : nor are you lesse dangerous then they : the innocent Sheepe are no lesse terrified by the barking of the dogs within , then by the handling of the Wolves without ; my very soule bleedeth to thinke what discouragements you give us at home , what ignominy , and scandall , and disgrace you are to us abroad . But you proceed and tell us , If there must bee a nationall Church , let not this exclude and barre out the free use of congregations . Here you play the Libertine : give you freedome and you care not what religion is at the next doors : this is the Golden branch , let you once see this , though your mouths were as maine and wide as these of Cerberuss tumida ex ira tune corda recedunt . This is indeed the confusion your parity aymes at , that every man may do what seemeth him good in his own eyes : now let any Christian judge , whether it is your love to purity , that perswaded your Separation from the Church , now your reformation of the Church , or your desire of license , when , if that be granted to you , you are willing to be dayly spectatours of the Antichristianisme and their patron ( such is all to you beside your sanctified Conventicle ) of a nationall Church , Order as they call it : and how doe you ? You have no use , no name for order at all : all be●de your humour , though prescribed by the state , must be order as they call it : this is your respect to Parliaments , you are the onely mouths , I know , of all power and Iurisdiction . Nor must the consciences of Gods people in things indifferent for order and unities sake , be regulated by wholesome Lawes ; when every mans conscience must be tyed to yours in the very principles of religion ; how farre they decline from this , so farre from purity , from salvation : without this no admission to your society , to your communion , nor ( as you will have it ) to the Kingdome of Heaven . It is said of Aristotle , he disputed against monarchie , least any beside his master should affect that , just so you against government , when you are the hardest Tax-masters , the most curious searchers of opinions in the world , nothing can passe your censures ( and that is either to be saved or damned ) which is not borrowed from your selves . You wil have us to believ , that though you are in , yet you are not of the world , you , good men , are separated from the world in the corruptions thereof ; whether is this that you cannot sin , or that you do not sin , whether boast you here of your opinion , or your practise ? If the first , take it with you , and that of the Apostles , when you say you have not sinne you are lyers , and the truth is not in you : but if the last , I will tell you , you are now too grosse not to bee discerned , all your figge-tree leaves , of Purity and reformation , will not cover your nakednesse , violence , rebellion , deceit , cruelty , dissimulation , wrath , incharity , in a word all the titles that attend you in the first page , are your individuall Lackeys , and doe your best , will acknowledg no other Master ; I have knowne men of honest civill dispositions , ere they joyned to your sect , but then , as if Sathan had entered with the Sop , immediately became proud , testie , hollow-hearted , and whose charity dar'd nor so much as extend it selfe to the respects of nature or acquaintance : these in the Children of disobedience might be accompted sinnes , what they are in you I know not ; it may be , as by the accesse of trueth and light , your natures are essentialy changed , so the qualities and viciousnesse of your actions . But I have mistaken you all this time , it is a Separation from the world in Doctrin , not in practise ; you intend you are as farre from this , as you are from Rome . Meane time you beare us in hand you are not Separate ( and woes me for it ) from the civill state , but are peac●able members thereof , subject and obedient to all good , and just Lawes , how long they may happen to fit your i●ching humours ; go beyond this traine , the Laws will be neither good nor just ; you must have the power to interpret them , as you have the Protestation , and thereafter obey not them , but your fancy concerning them . Here you bring in your fulminatrix leg●o , as if all we were Pagans about you , what your prayers have procured to us , let these last thundring dayes witnesse ; the almost ruines of a poore Church by your Schismes , wil testifie it to the succeeding ages . The Apostle indeed exhorts us to pray for Kings , your hearers know how you obey this exhortation , when by your praiers you teach them how to suspect their Princes of Luke-warmenesse and oppression ; in your wavering petitions to God for their reformation , their amendment , as Ioab did to Amasa , you stab their authority , their reputation , beneath the fifth Rib. But if it were not proprium convertibile with your Sect , to make bold with Scripture , I could fit you better with texts , and tell you of a Miriam , who said , hath the Lord spoken onely by Moses , and not by us also ? and of a Core of whom you learned your Dialect , you take too much upon you , seeing all the congregation of the Lord are holy , wherefore lift you your selves above the Congregation of the Lord ? But you are worse then both these ; no speech by Moses , as by your selves ; not all the Congregation of the Lord , but onely you are holy . I will therefore assigne you a third , that comes more home to the point , To your Tents O Israel , what Inheritance have we in the Sonne of Iesse ? validior est oris quàm operis vox . Let the condition of the times , your defections , your stirres , speake for me the truth of the matter : if the Parliament should give eare to your desires , Royalty might seeke a Patrone amongst the Nominalists ; you would soone finde that burthensome that is not profitable , and at the last answer the charges of the crown with a Quorsum proditio haec ? You make too bold with Domitian's example ; blessed bee God for it , we have none such ; no edicts come out for persecution ; but it is customary with you to compare King and people to Tyrants and Heathens . You tell us here of protection and tolleration from civill states , what if you shall imagine , as now you doe , that this reciprocall dutie is not sufficiently afforded you ? why then have you not onely jus determinationis , but Vindictae , you may judg betwixt you and your Prince , and thereafter your rebellion is but a holy Warre ; for the maintenance of religion you may doe any thing . This is a summary excommunication of yours ; and the Martyrs of the Primitive times were but Dunces , that could not fall upon it : Kings have no more certainty of your obedience , then of your humours , your mutations , at the first change of the Wether-cocke ( and you are no lesse moving ) or information sent you from Amsterdam of a designe against the religion , omnia susque deque miscentur , all is turned topsie turvie . Doe not therefore offer us Sugar for your Pill : we are not so purblinde , but we doe perceive the naile in the one hand , while you carry Milke in the other hand . Now when you have drained us of all discipline and unity , how proceed you against the fomentation of envy , and faction in the state ? you give a bil of divorce to all Ecclesiasticall , and a seeming power to civil Lawes : these say you , may take order with transgressors , but with the proviso of incorrigibility : and can there be any such in your exempted Congregations ? This is either against your doctrine of admission or perseverance . But let no man blame you before they try you : do you deale so with others ? no , that were a suspition of charity , or a remission of zeale in you : Quod tibi non vis fieri &c. is a precept too practical for your contemplative faith , what accusations from you of Apostacy , of Treason , of heresie , upon suspitions , probabilities , and consequents ? Heare you of preparation for Warre ? It is to bring in Popery . Of the a ornation of a Chappell ? it is superstition . Aske you how you know this , you reply , the thoughts and intentions of the men are not upright , and is not this without tryall to judge the minde ? Whether is this a trick of the Antichrist or not , an usurpation of Gods prerogative ? but you have made too bold with infallibility to forge this priviledge , without this fewell your calumnies ( the very life of your Sect ) might be soone starv'd in cold bloud . Nay how blame you a whole Church and nation ? is there a corner in all this 〈◊〉 of yours which is not stuft with accusations of a totall apostacy and profanation against her ? Her doctrine is Idolatry , her disciplin Antichristianisme , her religion at every turne , compared with heathenisme : b●t the eye that mocketh his father and despiseth the government of his Mother , the Ravens of the River shall pull it out , and the young Eagles eate it . That old stratagem of Sathan , you have executed handsomely this yeare against the Bishops , and with as great moderation as he whom you name did , Nero : they poore men , are by you made the gate to disburthen the people of their sinnes ; and will that slaughter on too if you can accomplish your ends , but it is their , and our comfort , that he who hath let you loose can cast a hook in your nose , and chaine you againe , the Divell cannot so much as enter a heard of swine without permission from Almighty God , you tell us the Gospell , that novum Evangelium of yours , will kindle Coales and stir up debate , and for all this the Civill power may not cast you out , nor can without much fasting and praier , you then ( it seems ) and religion are convertible tearms , but see how you deale with us here ; shall we seeme profane to you , you must separate from us , shal you be troublesome and contentious to us , we not from you ? This is your Legerdemaine , your Hocus Pocus whereby you delude the people by this you intend to blindfold the state , and tosse the whole Kingdome ( with reverence be it spoken ) like to an old Beare tyed to a stake . Kings you will have none , unlesse they bee made by your selves , as he at Leyden : a one may give you , the Sonnes of the Church , that which is yours , the fat of the earth for others , they are children of Belial , all both Prince and People have forfeited their right , their dominion in the Creature , and never as yet restored , because not of the Reformation , onely you whom the ●onventicle hath assured to bee of the faithfull , have the liberty of the Gospell . you may therefore freely , and with a safe conscience reject your King , and deceive your neighbour , and think it no more sinne , then when the Israelites revolted from Pharaoh , and borrowed the eate-rings of the Egyptians ; your bondage hath been the same , and your warrant as particular , if we may beleeve you ; nor doe the coales you talke of burne no heigher ; you are as peremptory in granting rooms in heaven , as you are in giving peace on earth , to them you are pleased to call hereticks ; and yet not the lesse for all this , the state must nourish you in her bosome , though your ●rrand be then to suck out her heart blood . For your next doubt , that your perfection will be envyed , it is of your own making ; there is none who knowes your conversations , can Justly charge you with popery , that you intend for heaven by good works : but if you had not added purity ( which with you is only Speculative ) to your perfection , I might have suspected you of the three vowes , which falsly march under that name ; though your many wives , and large usury may serve to purge you from that of chastity and poverty ; and for that of obedience you may very well take it in the negative . You call your way of devotion Christs sweetnesse ; spare , I intreat you such appropriations ; your works must not ever passe as the works of God : lest as you else where make him the author of sin , so you may thrust ( with all reverence be it spoken ) violence or dissimulation upon him ; and is not this to lay a ground work for Atheisme , when you preach and practise contradictions ? and yet will have your credulous hearers ( who have pulled out their eyes for you ) conceive , that all you speak is from above ? Now fall you downe againe upon the parishes , and maintaine a necessity to Seperate your exempted congregations from them ; no minister , you say , will be so unchristian as to envye this : pereunt civili vulnere fratres ; each of you hath his sword in his brothers side . When will you agree among your selves ? it seemes you are erecting the Babel ; you so much talke of ; if the confusion of tongues , hearts , and opinions be sutable to the work ; one calls for an elder , another brings a widow ; one will have a parish , another a family ; one for the separation another against it ; This man that the Doctor is an office-bearer , this that he is not , he for a diaconisse , he against her : one sayes the Doctors may excommunicate , another contradicts that ; he gives the right of prophecying to the inspired-lay-elder , he denies it ; another denies all Church superiority and jurisdiction ; he maintaines it in a Presbyterie , this man in a parish ; — non si linguae centum , oraeque centum — ferrea vox , and yet all of these ( mirum dictu ! ) leaning to the like immediate , the like infallible revelation ; neither learning , Church , nor fathers , must assist to find out the genuine sense of Scripture concerning any of these . The Poets tell us that the mistaken History of Babylon , was {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} , this in a twofold meaning , may be so . Settle the busines among your selves , and say ( you who maintaine the discipline and government of the church to bee so cleerly and perticularly set down in Gods word ) hitherto shall our proud wits ( that casteth up dirt and myre continually ) come . Then it is possible we may joyne with you , and that safely too , because you are no more your selves , if you once but listen to unity and concord ; but this were dangerous ; agreement amongst your selves might at the last end in the Monarchicall government of the Church of Rome ; your purity , and peace are compositio incompossibilium ; and that is even what you are in your most formall essence , a very notion of the braine , Christ told us in his apologie for himself , that the old serpent would not have regnum in se divisum , his poyson is yours , not his policy , you are not so far learned yet . In the close of this answer you tell us , that your independent congregations will not plead for tithes : Now you take the title of independence upon you , from church and state ; such is the liberty of your familie meetings ; Nor will you meddle with tithes , this were ( God save us ) to Iudaise . It is your custome to ingratiate the people to you by preaching sacriledge , rebellion , and usury ; King , Preist and people are too cheap sold for your 5. s. freewill-offering . Nor shall you thus avoid the reward of Balaam ; your purchase it may bee is as good as the set rent of others ; to live by the chimney corner is sometimes as profitable as to live by the Altar : Twenty or thirty pounds of collection is a mean reward for some of your houshold lectures , even for one exhortation , if some godly families about midnight be pleased to joyne themselves together . That peece of Scripture is practically yours indeed , Godlinesse is great gaine ; nor must the good women ( the conceit of whose devotion is measured by their reward ) want their oblation , though they should borrow it from the Pockets of their sleeping husbands , or send their cloathes to Long-lane to fetch it : not many wise , you can tell us , these are likely to detect your Knaveryes , but as rich as may be , they will drop the more oyle for your zeale , and you out of your Christian pitty will adventure to disburthen them of part of their goods that they may have the more easie passage through the needles eye . your small tithes you gather them ipsa Corpora at your chamber Conferences and long feasts , which you repay with as long graces , praying to the extent of your belly , where not a morsell may passe your censure if your hand be not in the dish ; fastings , unlesse it be with the Manichaes upon the Lords day , fall not out in your Callendar till the 32 day of the moneth . The Parliament you tell us is about a reformation ; a glorious work indeed ! God prosper them , and send it us , to the rooting out of you and all who have wrought our unquiet and troubled the peace of Israel : these Convulsions and renting paines , which in a part , you to the horror of every Christian soule do stir up , admonish us what humors , what obstructions are yet to be purged : but under favour you must not prescribe the Medicine , such a measure of acrimony should then be administred , that not the diseases only but the vitall spirits might readily be exhausted : you are a part of our consumption , and in such a case strength not weaknesse is to be studyed , whereby the kingdome may worke out the malignity of the sicknesse . But what reformation do you conceive ? when shall you make a stand ? must every yeere produce you a new religion ? every moneth a new faith ? nor shall the Rabbyes of the next moone , be content with what you doe , a new inspired-eldership upon a new pretended revelation will perhapps demolish this Platforme : you have indeed reached home to the first , the Patriarchall , each of them were Priests to themselves , so you ; thus is was before the law , before ceremonies were in custome and therefore is the only means for you , who are without all law , to reclaime the Church your houshold from Ceremonies . You perswade your self , the Parliament wil remove that government you name Hierarchicall , and we hope it wil not ; you indeed labour what you can to throw sparks in the flax to put the kingdom in a flame , that you may see to finde out Popery , or rather the treasure and revennues of the Church , hid up in the time of darknesse ; hence your zeale is active , yea so hot , that it is strange that it melt not the plate , the bells , the very lead of the Church into coyne . But those of that honourable that religious Iudicature are lately taught by your madnesse , that essentially to change the present state of things , were no lesse present death to the state , then to open a veine and disable nature in the highth the rage of a feaver , If in the time of your seeming interdict , you have been so excessive , how should we find superlatives to expresse your carriage , if the Church Government were totally removed ? sure no more difference , propriety , nor distinction of person , things , and conditions , should be left amongst us Then if that dreame , that Idea of Platoes were made reall , did you imagine these noble and conscientious Pilots of this great body would resigne their present tranquility , for the fancies of you , distempered Humorists ? nay though they should ( animpossible supposition ) God himselfe would preserve some order amongst us , lest the Harmony of Nature should be dissolued by you , and all reduced to the Mother , Chaos . Goe therefore with this your conceit to New-England , there convert the Americans from Popery ( every thing beside your owne opinion is so to you ) we hope never to see this confusion of Government , this parity of beings , this annihilation of lawes and Magistracy , you bring along with you , received with any thing but laughter and derision in this kingdome . It is true you have some reason & no more to brag of your connivance hitherto ; not is it wonderfull ( that is without a known cause ) though you would bear the world in hand , that as your knowledge , so your helps are immediately from heaven : it wil be possible to tel you , what angeli ●otores , what great agents have turned the sphear , and racked their heads , if not their consciences ( these I know they have , I doubt if those ) to advance your ends , for their own ; I speak no misteries now , blindnesse it self hath gotten eyes to see it . But the never sufficiently admired Parliament by the hand of wisdome and providence will a midst all these distractions pull off your Mask , and having made you visible to the world , either reduce you to a non-entity , or restraine you within the limits of your proper vocations , no more to intermeddle your selves with Church and state . Doe not you too much rejoyce over the ( perhaps deserved ) afflictions of others : If Judgement begin at the house of God , what doe you expect ? the brim of the Cup may purge , may refine them ; the dregges , plague and confound you ; and such fierce scourges as your selves , after their just chastisment , may be ( if your proper element can punish you ) thrown into the fire . That a nationall Church hath no patterne , no direction in scripture , is false and scandalous ; and because no lesse repugnant to the position of Consistories , then of Bishopps , I leave you to their just censures : If you loved peace halfe so well , as you pretend to love trueth , this expression had never dropped from your pen : that olive branch , I am afraid , shall not be brought home to us , while it please God by a mighty wind to abate and dry up your waters . You would gladly purge the universities and schooles ; non amonimium diligentes : this vomitive of yours may be the evacuation of their Learning and livelihoods ; I pray God the houses themselves may obtaine favour at your religious hands , whose piety extends to the very extirpation of your owne enemy knowledge , and a single life ; that argues your simplicity , this your wantonnesse : nor shall you want pretext ; this is Monasticall , that vaine Phylosophy ; either Paganisme , or that which is worse , Popery . But since already , the name of a scholar is no lesse odious to you , Then that of an Academick to Paul the second , and that to know but the titles of schoolemen , and in what language the fathers have written , is for that to be suspected of heresie , for this of superstition . — ●ro miserere laborum Tantorum , miserere auimi non digna ferentis . For generosities sake , envade not your enemie under the cloud , but leave us the title page of two universities , that the after ages may know , we had once religion and civility amongst us . You come at the last to a strange position , it is indifferent to you what ever liturgy or Ceremonies or discipline are left to accompany this nationall government : is this you that told us all these are popish ? it is true you did , but it is the imposition you only complaine of , let you enioy your Christian liberty at home in your parlours , and let Mahomatisme reigne in our Cathedralls for you ; now let your blinded followers themselves judge whether it be prejudice or reason , your malice or its misdeserving hath so inflamed you against the present Church government ; give freedom to you , you crave no more ; it is therefore not the Crimes of the Episcopall office , but because it curbes your passions , your vagaries , that hath stirred your humours against it . if the Juditious reader shall take the measure of your whole body by this your foot , he shal find that it is nor your purity but your pevishnesse is in the issue betwixt us : our Camells shall be but gnats to you , if a way may be found to dispence with your obedience , and make you something betwixt a King and a subject ; by this outward pulse a man may find the inward motions of your heart , how unequall these are and how this aguish and preternatural heat of yours forespeaks a sweat from my heart ; I wish not that of bloud . You adde , that a dangerous error stifly maintained , is liable to excommunication : I am glad you grant a possibility of errour ; now there is some hopes you may be instructed since your presumed infallibility permitts you to thinke , you can thinke amisse , the acknowledgement of a sicknesse is the first step to health , but how your excommunication from other Churches and your exempted independent congregations can be soadered together , I professe I understand it not ; to me they seem as contradictorious , as independent , & not independent : your herisie divides it selfe in so many crosse wayes that it must sometimes thwart , and the more , that your extemporary conclusion , know neither Premisses nor deliberation . In your last words you seeme to cast a smile upon the Civill power , and give a haile to your Master , by granting that in a reflexive way it may punish the oversights of the s●aternity ; but if hypotheca impossibilis aequipollet simpliciter neganti , this is no grant at all , so you speake of such crimes as cannot possible fall upon any of that sanctification , such as the roote of Apostacy , and the errours derived from hence ; nay if they did , such falterers were no more of your society , because you are obliged in conscience to seperate from them : so it is then that the Magistrate hath not only no power in Ecclesias●icis ( this is to you directly Antichristianisme ) but in Civilibus , neither to censure any member of your exempted and independent Congregation : this is the Gideons fleece that must never be of the Common dependence and condition of the rest of the kingdom . See now what necessity his sacred Majesty hath ( unlesse he would sell all his possession ) to buy your pearles to curb this feaster of yours ; doe not flatter your selves , his authority and yours cannot breathe under one climate your pretended freedome is wholely incompatible with his due obedience , ( witnesse these sad eclipses , these late stormes , these clouds that yet threaten a tempest ) either that , or this , withall loyalty I speake , it is not of God ; nor deale you more favourably with Parliaments ; how much you regard the power , the integrity of that most honorable Court this your discourse can best give evidence ; if you once carried the busines , you have professed it , that no Law no statute shall oblige you further then you find convenient to your exempted Congregation . And how have you suted your respects to the better times ? that light of redresse hath onely served to make your Iett the blacker : what horrid Monsters , quot Africa non caperet , hath a too favourable beame of toleration , raised out of the mud and clay of your ignorant presumption and drossie wits ? how is the pleasant land become a wildernesse . Infelix lolium & steriles Dominantur avenae ; Pro molli violâ , pro purpureo Narcisso Carduus , & spinis surgit paliurus acutis . And why doe such Batts and Owles as you screech about our Churches ? enter , you may not for pollution ) as if the ruines and desolations of Babel had already seised upon us ? the spirits of all good men doe already groane under your spirituall Democracy , and doe suffer a forehand , when their tendernesse represents to them the rubbish ( unlesse your violence be prevented ) of a demolished Church and state ; it is true you are of flint , and the Polititions of the times who do use you as their stalking-horse from whence to shoot their prey , abundantly furnish tinder , but our prudent King and most careful Parliament shal quench your ignis fatu●s & not suffer you to consume us all to Ashes : you have bin spared hitherto either to try the length of your Arme how far these your designes would reach , or that the Kingdom had not yet collected it selfe out of that amazement , which by your suddaine irruption as that of many rivers , you had caused : but it is now high time to throw full buckets of water upon your fiery heads , to take the matches from you , and either to send you hence , or prescribe you bounds ; lest that the combustible body about you ( all are now of Gunpowder ) take hold of your sparks , and burn up all to the extirmination first of order , then of religion , and last of humanity it self . These are the prayers , and these the feares of all them that with more reall sighes and groanes , than you , to the hazard of your buttons imploy in charming of your hearers , love the prosperity , and long after the peace of Jerusalem . FINIS .