Animadversions upon Mr. Hobbes's Problemata de vacuo by the Honourable Robert Boyle ... Boyle, Robert, 1627-1691. 1674 Approx. 114 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 53 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2008-09 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A28939 Wing B3926 ESTC R11777 11687982 ocm 11687982 48183 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A28939) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 48183) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 15:7) Animadversions upon Mr. Hobbes's Problemata de vacuo by the Honourable Robert Boyle ... Boyle, Robert, 1627-1691. [10], 94 p. Printed by William Godbid, and are to be sold by Moses Pitt ..., London : 1674. Appears in: Tracts / R. Boyle. 1674. Reproduction of original in Cambridge University Library. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. 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Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Hobbes, Thomas, 1588-1679. -- Problemata physica. Vacuum -- Early works to 1800. 2006-05 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2006-07 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2007-02 Robyn Anspach Sampled and proofread 2007-02 Robyn Anspach Text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion ANIMADVERSIONS UPON M R. HOBBES's PROBLEMATA DE VACUO . By the Honourable ROBERT BOYLE , Fellow of the Royal Society . LONDON , Printed by William Godbid , and are to be Sold by Moses Pitt , at the Angel over against the little North Door of St. Paul's Church . 1674. PREFACE . UPON the coming abroad of Mr. Hobbes's Problemata Physica , finding them in the hands of an Ingenious Person , that intended to write a Censure of them , which several Employments private and publick have , it seems , hinder'd him to do ; I began , as is usual on such occasions , to turn over the leaves of the Book , to see what particular things it treated of . This I had not long done before I found , by obvious passages in the third Chapter , or Dialogue , as well as by the Title , which was Problemata de Vacuo , that I was particularly concern'd in it ; upon which I desired the Possessor of the Book , who readily consented , to leave me to examin that Dialogue , on which condition I would leave him to deal with all the rest of the Book . Nor did I look upon the Reflections I meant to make as repugnant to the Resolutions I had taken against writing Books of Controversie , since the Explications , Mr. Hobbes gave of his Problems , seem'd to contain but some Variations of , or an Appendix to , his Tract De Natura Aeris , which , being one of the two first pieces that were published against what I had written , was one of those that I had expresly reserv'd my self the liberty to answer . But the Animadversions I first made upon Mr. Hobbes's Problems De Vacuo , having been casually mislaid e're they were finished ; before I had occasion to resume my task , there past time enough to let me perceive , that his Doctrine , which 't will easily be thought that the Vacuists disapproved , was not much relished by most of the Plenists themselves , the modernest Peripateticks and the Cartesians ; each of them maintaining the Fullness of the World , upon their own grounds , which are differing enough from those of our Author , the natural Indisposition I have to Polemical Discourses , easily perswaded me to let alone a Controversie , that did not appear needful : And I had still persisted in my silence , if Mr. Hobbes had not as 't were summon'd me to break it by publishing again his Explications , which in my Examen of his Dialogue De Natura Aeris I had shewn to be erroneous . And I did not grow at all more satisfied , to find him so constant as well as stiff an Adversary to interspers'd Vacuities , by comparing what he maintains in his Dialogue De Vacuo , with some things that he teaches , especially concerning God , the Cause of Motion , and the Imperviousness of Glass , in some other of his writings that are published in the same Volume with it . For since he asserts that there is a God , and owns Him to be the Creator of the World ; and since on the other side the Penetration of Dimensions is confessed to be impossible , and he denies that there is any Vacuum in the Universe ; it seems difficult to conceive , how in a World that is already perfectly full of Bodie , a Corporeal Deity , such as he maintains in his Append. ad Leviath . cap. 3 , can have that access even to the minute parts of the Mundane Matter , that seems requi● site to the Attributes and Operations that belong to the Deity , in reference to the World. But I leave Divines to consider what Influence the conjunction of Mr. Hobbes's two Opinions , the Corporeity of the Deity , and the perfect Plenitude of the World , may have on Theology . And perhaps I should not in a Physical Discourse have taken any notice of the proposed Difficulty , but that , to prevent an Imputation on the Study of Natures Works , ( as if it taught us rather to degrade than admire their Author , ) it seem'd not amiss to hint ( in transitu ) that Mr. Hobbes's gross Conteption of a Corporeal God , is not only unwarranted by found Philosophy , but ill befriended even by his own . My Adversary having propos'd his Problems by way of Dialogue between A. and B ; 't will not , I presume , be wonder'd at , that I have given the same form to my Animadversions ; which come forth no earlier , because I had divers other Treatises , that I was more concern'd for , to publish before them . But because it will probably be demanded , why on a Tract that is but short , my Animadversions should take up so much room ? It will be requisite , that I here give an account of the bulk of this Treatise . And first , having found that there was not any one Problem , in whose Explication , as propos'd by Mr. Hobbes , I saw cause to acquiesce , I was induc'd for the Readers ease , and that I might be sure to do my Adversary no wrong , to transcribe his whole Dialogue , bating some few Transitions , and other Clauses not needful to be transferr'd hither . Next , I was not willing to imitate Mr. Hobbes , who recites in the Dialogue we are considering the same Experiments that he had already mentioned in his Tract De Natura Aeris , without adding as his own ( that I remember ) any new one to them . But my unwillingness to tire the Reader with bare Repetitions of the Arguments I employ'd in my Examen of that Tract , invited me to endeavour to make him some amends for the exercise of his patience by inserting , as occasion was offer'd , five or six new Experiments , that will not perhaps be so easily made by every Reader that will be able ( now that I have perspicuously propos'd them ) to understand them . And lastly , since Mr. Hobbes has not been content to magnifie himself and his way of treating of Physical matters , but has been pleas'd to speak very slightingly of Experimentarian Philosophers ( as he stiles them ) in general , and , which is worse , to disparage the making of elaborate Experiments ; I judg'd the thing , he seem'd to aim at , so prejudicial to true and useful Philosophy , that I thought , it might do some service to the less knowing , and less wary , sort of Readers , if I tryed to make his own Explications enervate his Authority , and by a somewhat particular Examen of the Solutions he has given of the Problems I am concern'd in , shew , that 't is much more easie to undervalue a frequent recourse to Experiments , than truly to explicate the Phaenomena of Nature without them . And since our Author , speaking of his Problemata Physica , ( which is but a small Book ) scruples not to tell His Majesty , to whom he dedicates them , that he has therein comprised ( to speak in his own terms ) the greatest and most probable part of his Physical Meditations ; and since by the alterations , he has made in what he formerly writ about the Phaenomena of my Engine , he seems to have design'd to give it a more advantageous form : I conceive , that by these selected Solutions of his , one may , without doing him the least injustice , make an estimate of his way of discoursing about Natural things . And though I would not interess the credit of Experimentarian Philosophers in no considerabler a Paper than this ; yet if Mr. Hobbes's Explications and mine be attentively compared , it will not , I hope , by them be found , that the way of Philosophising he employs , is much to be preferr'd before that which he undervalues . ANIMADVERSIONS VPON M R. HOBBES's Problemata de VACUO . A. MAy one , without too bold an inquisitiveness , ask , what Book you are reading so attentively ? B. You will easily believe you may , when I shall have answer'd you , that 't was Mr. Hobbes's lately publish'd Tract of Physical Problems , which I was perusing . A. What progress have you made in it ? B. I was finishing the third Dialogue or Chapter when you came in , and finding my self , though not named , yet particularly concern'd , I was perusing it with that attention which it seems you took notice of . A. Divers of your Experiments are so expresly mention'd there , that one need not be skill'd in decyphering to perceive that you are interessed in that Chapter , and therefore seeing you have heedfully read it over , pray give me leave to ask your Judgment , both of Mr. Hobbes's Opinion , and his Reasonings about Vacuum . B. Concerning his Opinion , I am sorry I cannot now satisfie your Curiosity , having long since taken , and ever since kept , a Resolution to decline , at least until a time that is not yet come , the declaring my self either for or against the Plenists . But as to the other part of your Question , which is about Mr. Hobbes's Arguments for the absolute Plenitude of the World , I shall not scruple readily to answer , that his Ratiocinations seem to me far short of that cogency , which the noise he would make in the world , and the way wherein he treats both ancient and modern Philosophers that dissent from him , may warrant us to expect . A. You will allow me the freedom to tell you , That , to convince me , that your resentment of his explicating divers of the Phaenomena of your Pneumatic Engine otherwise than you have been wont to do , ( and perhaps in terms that might well have been more civil , ) has had no share in dictating this Judgment of yours ; the best way will be , that entering for a while into the party of the Vacuists you answer the Arguments he alledges in this Chapter to confute them . B. Having always , as you know , forborn to declare my self either way in this Controversie , I shall not tye my self strictly to the Principles and Notions of the Vacuists , nor , though but for a while , oppose my self to those of the Plenists : But so far I shall comply with your Commands , as either upon the Doctrine of the Vacuists , or upon other grounds , to consider , whether this Dialogue of Mr. Hobbes have cogently proved his , and the Schools , Assertion , Non dari Vacuum ; and whether he has rightly explain'd some Phaenomena of Nature which he undertakes to give an account of , and especially some produced in our Engin , whereof he takes upon him to render the genuine Causes . And this last inquiry is that which I chiefly design . A. By this I perceive , that if you can make out your own Explications of your Adversaries Problems de Vacuo , and shew them to be preferable to his , you will think you have done your work , and that 't is but your secondary scope to shew , that in Mr. Hobbes his way of solving them , he gives the Vacuists an advantage against Him , though not against the plenists in general . B. You do not mistake my meaning , and therefore without any further Preamble , let us now proceed to the particular Phaenomena consider'd by Mr. Hobbes ; the first of which is an Experiment proposed by me in the one and thirtieth of the Physico-Mechanical Experiments concerning the Adhesion of two flat and polish'd Marbles , which I endeavour'd to solve by the pressure of the Air. And this Experiment Mr. Hobbes thinks so convincing an one to prove the Plenitude of the World , that , though he tells us he has many cogent Arguments to make it out , yet he mentions but this one , because that , he says , suffices . A. The Confidence he thereby expresses of the great force of this Argument does the less move me , because , I remember , that formerly in his Elements of Philosophy he thought it sufficient to employ one Argument to evince the Plenitude of the World , and for that one he pitch'd upon the Vulgar Experiment of a Gardeners Watering-Pot : But , whether he were wrought upon by the Objections made to his Inference from that Phaenomenon in your Examen of his Dialogue De Natura Aeris , or by some other Considerations , I will not pretend to divine . But I plainly perceive , he now prefers the Experiment of the cohering Marbles . B. Of which it will not be amiss , though the passage be somewhat long , to read you his whole Discourse out of the Book I have in my hand . A. 'T is fit that you , who for my sake are content to take the pains of answering what he says , should be eased of the trouble of reading it , which I will therefore , with your leave , take upon me . His Discourse then about the Marbles is this : A. Ad probandam Universi Plenitudinem , nullum nostin ' Argumentum cogens ? B. Imò multa : Unum autem sufficit ex eo sumptum , Quod duo corpor a plana , si se mutuò secundùm amborum planitiem communem tangant , non facile in instante divelli possunt ; successivè verò facillimè . Non dico , impossibile esse duo durissima Marmora it a coharentia divellere , sed difficile ; & vim postulare tantam , quanta sufficit ad duritiem lapidis superandam . Siquidem verò majore vi ad separationem opus sit quàm illa , quâ moventur separata , id signum est non dari Vacuum . A. Assertiones illae demonstratione indigent . Primò autem ostende , quomodo ex duorum durissimorum corporum , conjunctorum ad superficies exquisite laeves , diremptione difficili , sequatur Plenitudo Mundi ? B. Si duo plana , dura , polita Corpora ( ut Marmora ) collocentur unum supra alterum , ita ut eorum superficies se mutuò per amnia puncta exactè , quantum fieri potest , contingant , illa sine magna difficultate ita divelli non possunt , ut eodem instante per omnia puncta dirimantur . Veruntamen Marmora eadem , si communis eorum superficies ad Horizontem erigatur , aut non valde inclinetur , alterum ab altero facillimè ( ut scis ) etiam solo pondere dilabentur . Nonne causa hujus rei haec est , Quod labenti Marmori succedit Aer , & relictum locum semper implet ? A. Certissimé . Quid ergo ? B. Quando verò eadem uno instante divellere conaris , nonne multo major vis adhibenda est ; Quam ob causam ? A. Ego , & mecum ( puto ) omnes cansam statuunt , Quod spatium totum inter duo illa Marmora divulsa , simul uno instante implere Aer non potest , quantacunque celeritate fiat divulsio . B. An qui spatia in Aere dari vacua contendunt , in illo Aere solo dari negant qui Marmora illa conjuncta circumdat ? A. Minimè , sed ubique interspersa . B. Dum ergo illi , qui Marmor unum ab altero revellentes Aerem comprimunt , & per consequens Vacuum exprimunt , Vacuum faciunt locum per revulsionem relictum ; nulla ergo separationis erit difficultas , saltem non major quàm est difficultas corpora eadem movendi in Aere postquam separata fuerint . Itaque quoniam , concesso Vacuo , difficult as Marmora illa dirimendi nulla est , sequitur per difficultatis experientiam , nullum esse Vacuum . A. Recte quidem illud infers . Mundi autem Plenitudine supposita , quomodo demonstrabis possibile omnino esse ut divellantur ? B. Cogita primo Corpus aliquod ductile , nec nimis durum , ut ceram , in duas partes distrahi , quae tamen partes non minus exacte in communi plano se mutuo tangunt quàm laevissima Marmora . Jam quo pacto distrahatur ●era , consideremus . Nonne perpetuo attenuatur donec in filum evadat tenuissimum , & omni dato crasso tenuius , & sie tandem divellitur ? Eodem modo etiam durissima columna in duas partes distrahetur , si vim tantam adhibeas , quanta sufficit ad resistentiam duritiei superandam . Sicut enim in card partes primò extimae distrahuntur , in quarum locum succedit Aer ; ita etiam in Corpore quantumlibet duro Aer locum subit partium extimarum , quae primae Vulsionis viribus dirumpuntur . Vis autem quae superat resistentiam partium extimarum Duri , facilè superabit resistentiam reliquarum . Nam resistentia prima est à Toto Duro , reliquarum verò semper à Residuo . A. It a quidem videtur consideranti , quàm Corpora quaedam , praesertim verò durissima , fragilia sint . Does this Ratiocination seem to you as cogent , as it did to the Proposer of it ? B. You will quickly think it does not , and perhaps you will think it should not , if you please to consider with me some of the Reflections that the Reading of it suggested to me . And first , without declaring for the Vacuists Opinion , I must profess my self unsatisfied with Mr. Hobbes's way of arguing against them : For , where he says , Dum ergo illi qui Marmor unum ab altero revellentes Aerem comprimunt & per consequens Vacuum exprimunt , Vacuum faciunt locum per revulsionem relictum ; nulla ergo separationis erit difficultas , saltem non major quàm est difficultas corpora eadem movendi in Aere postquam separata fuerint . Itaque quoniam , concesso Vacuo , difficultas Marmora illa dirimendi nulla est , sequitur per difficultatis experientiam , nullum esse Vacuum . Methinks he expresses himself but obscurely , and leaves his Readers to ghess , what the word Dum refers to . But that which seems to be his drift in this passage , is , that , since the Vacuists allow interspersed Vacuities , not only in the Air that surrounds the conjoyned Marbles , but in the rest of the ambient Air , there is no reason , why there should be any difficulty in separating the Marbles , or at least any greater difficulty than in moving the Marbles in that Air after their separation . But , not to consider , whether his Adversaries will not accuse his phrase of squeezing out a Vacuum as if it were a Body , they will easily answer , that notwithstanding the Vacuities they admit in the ambient Air , a manifest reason may be given in their Hypothesis of our finding a difficulty in the Divulsion of the Marbles . For , the Vacuities they admit being but interspers'd , and very small , and the Corpuscles of the Atmosphere being according to them endow'd with Gravity , there leans so many upon the upper surface of the uppermost Marble , that that stone cannot be at once perpendicularly drawn up from the lower Marble contiguous to it , without a force capable to surmount the weight of the Aerial Corpuscles that lean upon it . And this weight has already so constipated the neighbouring parts of the ambient Air , that he , that would perpendicularly raise the upper Marble from the lower , shall need a considerable force to make the Revulsion , and compel the already contiguous parts of the incumbent Air to a subingression into the pores or intervals intercepted between them . For the Conatus of him , that endeavours to remove the upper Marble , whilst the lower surface of it is fenc'd from the pressure of the Atmosphere by the Contact of the lower Marble which suffers no Air to come in between them , is not assisted by the weight or pressure of the Atmosphere , which , when the Marbles are once separated , pressing as strongly against the undermost surface of the upper Marble , as the incumbent Atmospherical Pillar does against the upper surface of the same Marble , the hand that endeavours to raise it in the free Air has no other resistance , than that small one of the Marbles own weight to surmount . A. But what say you to the Reason that Mr. Hobbes , and , as he thinks , all others give of the difficulty of the often mention'd Divulsion , namely , Quòd spatium totum inter duo illa Marmora divulsa simul uno instante implere Aer non potest , quant acunque celeritate fiat divulsio . B. I say , that , for ought I know , the Plenists may give a more plausible account of this Experiment , than Mr. Hobbes has here done ; and therefore abstracting from the two opposite Hypotheses , I shall further say , That the genuine Cause of the Phaenomenon seems to be that which I have already assign'd ; and that difficulty of raising the upper stone that accompanies the Airs not being able to come in all at once , to possess the space left between the surfaces of the two Marbles upon their separation , proceeds from hence , that , 'till that space be fill'd with the Atmospherical Air , the hand of him that would lift up the superiour Marble cannot be fully assisted by the pressure of the Air against the lower surface of that Marble . A. This is a Paradox , and therefore I shall desire to know on what you ground it ? B. Though I mention it but as a Conjecture propos'd ex abundanti ▪ yet I shall on this occasion countenance it with two things ; the first ▪ that , since I declare not for the Hypothesis of the Plenists as 't is maintain'd by Mr. Hobbes , I am not bound to allow , what the common Explication , adopted by my Adversary , supposes ; namely , that either Nature abhors a Vacuum ( as the Schools would have it , ) or that there could be no Divulsion of the Marbles , unless at the same time the Air were admitted into the room that Divulsion makes for it . And a Vacuist may tell you , that , provided the strength employ'd to draw up the superiour Marble be great enough to surmount the weight of the Aerial Corpuscles accumulated upon it , the divulsion would ensue , though by Divine Omnipotence no Air or other Body should be permitted to fill the room made for it by the divulsion ; and that the Air 's rushing into that space does not necessarily accompany , but in order of Nature and time follow upon , a separation of the Marbles , the Air that surrounded their contiguous surfaces being by the weight of the collaterally superiour Air impell'd into the room newly made by the divulsion . But I shall rather countenance what you call my Paradox by an Experiment I purposely made in our Pneumatical Receiver , where having accommodated two flat and polish'd Marbles , so that the lower being fixt , the upper might be laid upon it and drawn up again as there should be occasion , I found , that if , when the Receiver was well exhausted , the upper Marble was by a certain contrivance laid flat upon the lower , they would not then cohere as formerly , but be with great ease separated , though it did not by any Phaenomenon appear , that any Air could come to rush in , to possess the place given it by the recess of the upper Marble , whose very easie avulsion is as easily explicable by our Hypothesis ; since the pressure of that little Air , that remain'd in the Receiver , being too faint to make any at all considerable resistance to the avulsion of the upper Marble , the hand that drew it up had very little more than the single weight of the stone to surmount . A. An Anti-plenist had expected , that you would have observed , that the difficult separation of the Marbles in the open Air does rather prove , that there may be a Vacuum , than that there can be none . For in case the Air can succeed as fast at the sides as the divulsion is made , a Vacuist may demand , whence comes the difficulty of the separation ? And if the Air cannot fill the whole room made for it by the separated Marbles at the same instant they are forc'd asunder , how is a Vacuum avoided for that time , how small soever , that is necessary for the Air to pass from the edges to the middle of the room newly made ? B. What the Plenists will say to your Argument I leave them to consider ; but I presume , they will be able to give a more plausible account of the Phaenomenon we are treating of , than is given by Mr. Hobbes . A. What induces you to dislike his Explication of it ? B. Two things ; the one , that I think the Cause he assigns improbable ; and the other , that I think another , that is better , has been assign'd already . And first , whereas Mr. Hobbes requires to the Divulsion of the Marbles a force great enough to surmount the hardness of the stone , this is asserted gratis , which it should not be ; since it seems very unlikely , that the weight of so few pounds as will suffice to separate two coherent Marbles of about an Inch , for instance , in Diameter , should be able to surmount the hardness of such solid stones as we usually employ in this Experiment . And though it be generally judg'd more easie to bend , if it may be , or break a broader piece of Marble caeteris paribus , than a much narrower ; yet , whereas neither I , nor any else that I know , nor I believe Mr. Hobbes , ever observ'd any difference in the resistance of Marbles to separation from the greater or lesser thickness of the stones ; I find by constant experience , that , caeteris paribus , the broadness of the coherent Marbles does exceedingly increase the difficulty of disjoyning them : Insomuch that , whereas not many pounds , as I was saying , would separate Marbles of an Inch , or a lesser , Diameter ; when I increased their Diameter to about four Inches , if I misremember not , there were several Men that successively try'd to pull them asunder without being able by their utmost force to effect it . A. But what say you to the Illustration , that Mr. Hobbes , upon the supposition of the Worlds Plenitude , gives of our Phaenomenon by drawing asunder the opposite parts of a piece of Wax ? B. To me it seems an Instance improper enough . For first , the parts that are to be divided in the Wax are of a soft and yielding consistence , and according to him of a ductile , or , if you please , of a tractile nature , and not , as the parts of the coherent Marbles , very solid and hard . Next , the parts of the Wax do not stick together barely by a superficial contact of two smooth Planes , as do the Marbles we are speaking of ; but have their parts implicated , and as it were intangled with one another . And therefore they are far from a disposition to slide off , like the Marbles , from one another , in how commodious a posture soever you place them . Besides 't is manifest , that the Air has opportunity to succeed in the places successively deserted by the receding parts of the attenuated Wax ; but 't is neither manifest , nor as yet well proved by Mr. Hobbes , that the Air does after the same manner succeed between the two Marbles , which , as I lately noted , are not forced asunder after such a way , but are , as himself speaks , sever'd in all their points at the same instant . A. I know , you forget not what he says of the dividing of a hard Column into two parts by a force sufficient to overcome the resistance of its hardness . B. He does not here either affirm , that he , or any he can trust , has seen the thing done ; nor does he give us any such account of the way wherein the Pillar is to be broken , whether in an erected , inclined , or horizontal posture ; nor describe the particular circumstances that were fit to be mention'd in order to the solution of the Phaenomenon . Wherefore , 'till I be better inform'd of the matter of fact , I can scarce look upon what Mr. Hobbes says of the Pillar , as other than his Conjecture , which now I shall the rather pass by , not only because the case is differing from that of our polish'd Marbles , which are actually distinct Bodies , and only contiguous in one Commissure ; but also , because I would hasten to the second reason of my dislike of Mr. Hobbes's Explication of our Phaenomenon , which is , that a better has been given already , from the pressure of the Atmosphere upon all the superficial parts of the upper Marble save those that touch the Plane of the lower . A. You would have put fair for convincing Mr. Hobbes himself , at least would have put him to unusual shifts , if you had succeeded in the attempt you made , among other of your Physico-Mechanical Experiments , to disjoyn two coherent Marbles , by suspending them horizontally in your Pneumatical Receiver , and pumping out the Air that inviron'd them ; for , from your failing in that attempt , though you rendred a not improbable Reason of it , Mr. Hobbes took occasion , in his Dialogue De Natura Aeris , to speak in so high a strain as this : Nihil isthic erat quod ageret pondus ; Experimento hoc excogitari contra opinionem eorum qui Vacuum asserunt aliud argumentum fortius aut evidentius non potuit . Nam si duorum cohaerentium alterutrum secundùm eam viam , in qua jacent ipsae contiguae superficies , propulsum esset , facile separarentur , Aere praximo in locum relictum successivè semper influente ; sed illa ita divellere , ut simul totum amitterent contactum , impossibile est , mundo pleno . Oporteret enim aut motum fieri ab uno termino ad alium in instante , aut duo corpora eodem tempore in eodem esse loco : Quorum utrumvis dicere , est absurdum . B. You may remember , that where I relate that Experiment , I express'd a hope , that , when I should be better accommodated than I then was , I might attempt the Tryal with prosperous success , and accordingly afterwards , having got a lesser Engine than that I used before , wherewith the Air might be better pumpt out and longer kept out , I cheerfully repeated the Tryal . To shew then , that when two coherent Marbles are sustained horizontally in the Air , the Cause , why they are not to be forc'd asunder , if they have two or three Inches in Diameter , without the help of a considerable weight , is the pressure I was lately mentioning of the ambient Air ; I caused two such coherent Marbles to be suspended in a large Receiver , with a weight at the lowermost , that might help to keep them steddy , but was very inconsiderable to that which their Cohesion might have surmounted ; then causing the Air to be pumpt by degrees out of the Receiver , for a good while the Marbles stuck close together , because during that time the Air could not be so far pumpt out , but that there remained enough to sustain the small weight that endeavoured their divulsion : But when the Air was further pumpt out , at length the Spring of the little , but not a little expanded , Air , that remained , being grown too weak to sustain the lower Marble and its small clog , they did , as I expected , drop off ▪ A. This will not agree over-well with the confident and triumphant expressions just now necited . B. I never envied Mr. Hobbes's forwardness to triumph , and am content , his Conjectures be recommended by the confidence that accompanies them , if mine be by the success that follows them . But to confirm the Explication given by me of our Phaenomenon , I shall add , that as the last mention'd Tryal , which I had several times occasion to repeat , shews , that the cohesion of our two contiguous Marbles would cease upon the withdrawing of the pressure of the Atmosphere ; so by another Experiment I made , it appears , that the supervening of that pressure sufficed to cause that Cohesion . For , in prosecution of one of the lately mentioned Tryals , having found , that when the Receiver was well exhausted , two Marbles , though considerably broad , being laid upon one another after the requisite manner , their adhesion was , if any at all , so weak , that the uppermost would be easily drawn up from off the other ; we laid them again one upon the other , and then letting the external Air flow into the Receiver , we found , according to expectation , that the Marbles now cohered well , and we could not raise the uppermost but accompanied with the lowermost . But I am sensible , I have detained you too long upon the single Experiment of the Marbles : And though I hope the stress Mr. Hobbes lays on it will plead my excuse , yet to make your Patience some amends , I shall be the more brief in the other particulars that remain to be consider'd in his Dialogue De Vacuo . And 't will not be difficult for me to keep my promise without injuring my Cause , since almost all these particulars being but the same which he has already alledged in his Dialogue De Natura Aeris , and I soon after answered in my Examen of that Dialogue , I shall need but to refer you to the passages where you may find these Allegations examin'd , only subjoyning here some Reflections upon those few and slight things , that he has added in his Problems De Vacuo . A. I may then , I suppose , read to you the next passage to that long one , you have hitherto been considering , and it is this : Ad Vacuum nunc revertor : Quas causas sine suppositione Vacui redditurus es illorum effectuum , qui ostenduntur per Machinam illam quae est in Collegio Greshamensi ? B. Machina illa — B. Stop here , I beseech you , a little , that , before we go any further , I may take notice to you of a couple of things that will concern our subsequent Discourse . Whereof the first is , that it appears by Mr. Hobbes's Dialogue about the Air , that the Explications he there gave of some of the Phaenomena of the Machina Boyliana , were directed partly against the Virtuosi , that have since been honour'd with the Title of the Royal Society , and partly against the Author of that Engine , as if the main thing therein design'd were to prove a Vacuum . And since he now repeats the same explications , I think it necessary to say again , that if he either takes the Society or me for profess'd Vacuists , he mistakes , and shoots beside the mark ; for , neither they nor I have ever yet declar'd either for or against a Vacuum . And the other thing I would observe to you , is , that Mr. Hobbes seems not to have rightly understood , or at least not to have sufficiently heeded in what chiefly consists the advantage , which the Vacuists may make of our Engine against him : For , whereas in divers places he is very solicitous to prove , that the cavity of our Pneumatical Receiver is not altogether empty , the Vacuists may tell him , that since he asserts the absolute plenitude of the World , he must , as indeed he does , reject not only great Vacuities , but also those very small and interspers'd ones , that they suppose to be intercepted between the solid corpuscles of other bodies , particularly of the Air : So that it would not confute them to prove , that in our Receiver , when most diligently exhausted , there is not one great and absolute Vacuity , or , as they speak , a Vacuum coacervatum , since smaller and disseminated Vacuities would serve their turn . And therefore they may think their Pretensions highly favour'd , as by several particular effects , so by this general Phaenomenon of our Engine , that it appears by several Circumstances , that the Common or Atmospherical Air , which , before the pump is set a work , possess'd the whole cavity of our Receiver , far the greatest part is by the intervention of the pump made to pass out of the cavity into the open Air , without being able , at least for a little while , to get in again ; and yet it does not appear by any thing alledg'd by Mr. Hobbes , that any other body succeeds to fill adequately the places deserted by such a multitude of Aerial corpuscles . A. If I ghess aright , by those words , ( viz. it appears not by any thing alledg'd by Mr. Hobbes , ) you design to intimate , that you would not in general prejudice the Plenists . B. Your conjecture was well founded : For I think divers of them , and particularly the Cartesians , who suppose a subtile Matter or Aether fine enough to permeate glass , though our common Air cannot do it , have not near so difficult a task to avoid the Arguments the Vacuists may draw from our Engine , as Mr. Hobbes , who , without having recourse to the porosity of glass , which indeed is impervious to common Air , strives to solve the Phaenomena , and prove our Receiver to be always perfectly full , and therefore as full at any one time as at any other of common or Atmospherical Air , as far as we can judge of his opinion by the tendency or import of his Explications . A. Yet , if I were rightly inform'd of an Experiment of yours , Mr. Hobbes may be thereby reduc'd either to pass over to the Vacuists , or to acknowledge some Aetherial or other matter more subtil than Air , and capable of passing through the pores of glass ; and therefore , to shew your self impartial between the Vacuists and their Adversaries in this Controversie , I hope you will not refuse to gratifie the Plenists by giving your friends a more particular account of the Experiment . B. I know which you mean , and remember it very well . For , though I long since devis'd it , yet having but the other day had occasion to peruse the Relation I writ down of one of the best Tryals , I think I can repeat it , almost in the very words , which , if I mistake not , were these : There was taken a Bubble of thin white glass , about the bigness of a Nutmeg , with a very slender stem , of about four or five Inches long , and of the bigness of a Crows-quill . The end of the Quill being held in the flame of a Lamp blown with a pair of Bellows , was readily and well seal'd up , and presently the globous part of the glass , being held by the stem , was kept turning in the flame , 'till it was red hot and ready to melt ; then being a little removed from the flame , as the included Air began to lose of its agitation and spring , the external Air manifestly and considerably press'd in one of the sides of the Bubble . But the glass being again , before the cold could crack it , held as before in the flame , the rarified Air distended and plump'd up the Bubble ; which being the second time remov'd from the flame , was the second time compress'd ; and , being the third time brought back to the flame , swell'd as before , and remov'd , was again compress'd , ( either this time or the last by two distinct cavities ; ) 'till at length , having satisfied our selves , that the included Air was capable of being condens'd or dilated without the ingress or egress of Air ( properly so called ) we held the Bubble so long in the flame , strengthen'd by nimble blasts , that not only it had its sides plump'd up , but a hole violently broken in it by the over-rarified Air , which , together with the former watchfulness , we imploy'd from time to time to discern if it were any where crackt or perforated , satisfied us that it was till then intire . A. I confess , I did not readily conceive before , how you could , ( as I was told you had , ) make a solid Vessel , wherein there was no danger of the Aires getting in or out , whose cavity should be still possest with the same Air , and yet the Vessel be made by turns bigger and lesser . And , though I presently thought upon a well stopt bladder , yet I well foresaw , that a distrustful Adversary might make some Objections , which are by your way of proceeding obviated , and the Experiment agrees with your Doctrine in shewing , how impervious we may well think your thick Pneumatick Receivers are to common Air , since a thin glass Bubble , when its pores were open'd or relax'd by flame , would not give passage to the Springy particles of the Air , though violently agitated ; for if those particles could have got out of the pores , they never would have broke the Bubble , as at length a more violent degree of Heat made them do ; nor probably would the Compression , that afterwards insued of the Bubble by the ambient Air , be checkt near so soon , if those Springy Corpuscles had not remained within to make the resistance . Methinks , one may hence draw a new proof of what I remember you elsewhere teach , that the Spring of the Air may be much strengthen'd by Heat . For , in our case , the Spring of the Air was thereby inabled to expand the comprest glass , it was imprison'd in , in spite of the resisting pressure of the external Air ; and yet , that this pressure was considerable , appears by this , that the weight of so small a Column of Atmospherical Air , as could bear upon the Bubble , was able to press in the heated glass , in spite of the resistance of its tenacity and arched figure . B. Yet that which I mainly design'd in this Experiment was , ( if I were able ) to shew and prove at once , by an Instance not lyable to the ordinary exceptions , the true Nature of Rarefaction and Condensation , at least of the Air. For , to say nothing of the Peripatetick Rarefaction and Condensation , strictly so call'd , which I scruple not to declare , I think to be physically inconceptible or impossible ; 't is plain by our Experiment , that , when the Bubble , after the Glass had been first thrust in towards the Center , was expanded again by heat , the included Air possess'd more room than before , and yet it could perfectly fill no more room than formerly , each Aerial Particle taking up , both before and after the heating of the Bubble , a portion of space adequate to its own bulk ; so that in the Cavity of the expanded Bubble we must admit either Vacuities interspers'd between the Corpuscles of the Air , or that some fine Particles of the Flame , or other subtil matter , came in to fill up those Intervals , which matter must have enter'd the Cavity of the Glass at its pores : And afterwards , when the red-hot Bubble was removed from the flame , it is evident , that , since the grosser particles of the Air could not get through the Glass , which they were not able to do , even when vehemently agitated by an ambient Flame , the Compression of the Bubble , and the Condensation of the Air , which was necessarily consequent upon it , could not , supposing the Plenitude of the World , be performed without squeezing out some of the subtil matter contained in the cavity of the Bubble , whence it could not issue but at the pores of the Glass . But I will no longer detain you from Mr. Hobbes his Explications of the Machina Boyliana ; to the first of which you may now , if you please , advance . A. The passage I was going to read , when you interrupted me , was this : B. Machina illa eosdem effectus producit , quos produceret in loco non magno magnus inclusus ventus . A. Quomodo ingreditur istuo ventus ? Machinam nosti Cylindrum esse cavum , sneum , in quem protruditur Cylindrus alius solidus ligneus , coriotectus , ( quem suctorem dicunt ) it a exquisitè congruens , ut ne minimus quidem Aer inter corium & aes intrare ( ut putant ) possit . B. Scio , & quò Suctor facilius intrudi possit , foramen quoddam est in superiori parte Cylindri , per quod Aer ( qui suctoris ingressum alioqui impedire possit ) emittatur . Quod foramen aperire possunt & clandere quoties usus postulat . Est etiam in Cylindri cavi recessu summo datus aditus Aeri in globum concavum Vitreum , quem etiam aditum claviculâ obturare & aperire possunt quoties volunt . Denique in globo vitreo summo relinquitur foramen satis amplum , ( claviculâ item claudendum & recludendum ) ut in illum quae volunt immittere possint , experiendi causâ B. The imaginary wind to which Mr. Hobbes here ascribes the effects of our Engine , he formerly had recourse to in the 13th page of his Dialogue , and I have sufficiently answer'd that passage of it in the 45th and 46th pages of my Examen , to which I therefore refer you . A. I presume , you did not overlook the comparison Mr. Hobbes annexes to what I last read out of his Problems , since he liked the conceit so well , that we meet with it in this place again , though he had formerly printed it in his Dialogue De Natura Aeris . The words ( as you see ) are these : Tota denique Machina non multum differt , si naturam ejus spectes , à Sclopeto ex Sambuco , quo pueri se delectant , imitantes Sclopetos militum , nisi quòd major sit , & majori arte fabricatus , & pluris constet . B. I could scarce , for the reason you give , avoid taking notice of it . And if Mr. Hobbes intended it for a piece of Ralliery , I willingly let it pass , and could easily forgive him a more considerable attempt than this , to be reveng'd on an Engine that has destroyed several of his opinions : But , if he seriously meant to make a Physical Comparison , I think he made a very improper one . For , not to urge , that one may well doubt how he knows , that in the inclosed cavity of his Pot-gun , there is a very vehement wind , ( since that does not necessarily follow from the compreffion of the included Air : ) In Mr. Hobbes's Instrument , the Air , being forcibly comprest , has an endeavour to expand it self , and when it is able to surmount the resistance of its prison , that part that is first disjoyn'd is forcibly thrown outwards ; whereas in our Engine it appears by the passage lately cited of our Examen , that the Air is not comprest but expanded in our Receiver , and if an intercourse be open'd , or the Vessel be not strong enough , the outward Air violently rushes in : And if the Receiver chance to break , the fragments of the glass are not thrown outwards , but forced inwards . A. So that , whether or no Mr. Hobbes could have pitch'd upon a Comparison more suitable to his Intentions , he might easily have imployed one more suitable to the Phaenomena . B. I presume , you will judge it the less agreeable to the Phaenomena , if I here subjoyn an Experiment , that possibly you will not dislike ; which I devis'd to shew , not only that in our exhausted Receivers there is no such strong endeavour outwards , as most of Mr. Hobbes's Explications of the things that happen in them are built upon , but that the weight of the Atmospherical Air , when 't is not resisted by the counterpressure of any internal Air , is able to perform what a weight of many pounds would not suffice to do . A. I shall the more willingly learn an Experiment to this purpose , because in your Receivers , the rigidity of the glass keeps us from seeing , by any manifest change of its figure , whether , if it could yield without breaking , it would be press'd in , as your Hypothesis requires . B. The desires to obviate that very difficulty , for their satisfaction , that had not yet penetrated the grounds of our Hypothesis , made me think of employing , instead of a Receiver of Glass , one of a stiff and tough , but yet somewhat flexible , Metal . And accordingly having provided a new Pewter Porrenger , and whelm'd it upside down upon an Iron plate fasten'd to ( the upper end of ) our Pneumatical Pump , we carefully fasten'd by Cement the orifice to the plate , and though the inverted Vessel , by reason of its stiffness and thickness and the convexity of its superficies , were strong enough to have supported a great weight without changing its figure ; yet , as soon as by an exsuction or two the remaining part of the included Air was brought to such a degree of expansion , that its weaken'd Spring was able to afford but little assistance to the tenacity and firmness of the Metal , the weight of the pillar of the incumbent Atmosphere ( which by reason of the breadth of the Vessel was considerably wide also ) did presently and notably depress the upper part of the Porringer , both lessening its capacity and changing its figure ; so that instead of the Convex surface , the Receiver had before , it came to a Concave one , which new figure was somewhat , though not much , increased by the further withdrawing of the included and already rarified Air. The Experiment succeeded also with an other common Porringer of the same Metal . But in such kind of Vessels , made purposely of Iron plates , it will sometimes succeed and sometimes not , according to the Diameter of the vessel and the thickness of the plate , which was sometimes strong enough and sometimes too weak to resist the pressure of the incumbent Air. And sometimes I found also , that the vessel would be thrust in , not at the top but side-ways , in case that side were the only part that were made too thin to resist the pressure of the Ambient ; which Phaenomenon I therefore take notice of , that you may see , 〈◊〉 that powerful pressure may be exercised laterally as well as perpendicularly . Perhaps this Experiment , and that I lately recited of an Hermetically sealed Bubble , by their fitness to disprove Mr. Hobbes 's Doctrine , may do somewhat towards the letting him see , that he might have spar'd that not over-modest and wary expression , where speaking of the Gentlemen that meet at Gresham-College , ( of whom I pretend not to be one of the chief ) he is pleased to say , Experimenta faciant quantum volunt , nisi Principiis utantur meis nihil proficient . But let us , if you please , pass on to what he further alledges to prove , that the space in the exhausted Receiver , which the Vacuists suppose to be partly empty , is full of Air. ( Video ( says A. ) si suctor trudatur usque ad fundum Cylindri Aenei , obturenturque for amina , Secuturum esse , dum suctor retrahitur , locum in Cylindro cavo relictum fore vacuum . Nam ut in locum ejus succedat Aer , est impossibile . To which B. answers , Credo equidem , suctorem cum Cylindri cavi superficie satis arctè cohaerere ad excludendum stramen & plumam , non autem Aerem neque Aquam . Cogita enim , quod non ita accuratè congruerent , quin undiquaque interstitium relinqueretur , quantum tenuissimi capilli capax esset . Retracto ergo suctore , tantum impelleretur Aeris , quantum viribus illis conveniret quibus Aer propter suctoris Retractionem reprimitur , idque sine omni difficult ate sensibili . Quanto autem interstitium illud minus esset , tantum ingrederetur Aer velocius : Vel si contactus sit , sed non per omnia puncta , etiam tunc intrabit Aer , modò suctor majore vi retrahatur . Postremò , etsi contactus ubique exactissimus sit , vi tamen satis auctâ per cochleam ferream , tum corium cedet , tum ipsum es ; atque ita quoque ingredietur Aer . Credin ' tu , possibile esse duas superficies ita exactè componere , ut has compositas esse supponunt illi ; aut corium ita durum esse , ut Aeri , qui Cochleae ope incutitur , nihil omnino cedat ? Corium quanquam optimum admittit aquam , ut ipse scis , si fortè fecisti unquam iter vento & pluvia 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . It aque dubitare non potes , quin retractus Suctor tantum Aeris in Cylindrum adeoque in ipsum Recipiens incutiat , quantum sufficit ad locum semper relictum perfectè implendum . Effectus ergo , qui oritur à Retractione suctoris , alius non est quàm ventus , ventus ( inquam ) vchementissimus , qui ingreditur undiquaque inter Suctoris superficiem convexam , & Cylindri aenei concavam , proceditque ( versâ claviculâ ) in cavitatem globi Vitrei , sive ( ut vocatur ) Recipientis . The Substance of this Ratiocination having been already propos'd by Mr. Hobbes in his Dialogue of the Air , the 11th page , I long since answer'd it in the 30th and some of the following pages of my Examen ; and therefore I shall only now take notice in transitu of some slight whether additions or variations , that occur in what you have been reading . And , first , I see no probability in what he gratìs asserts , that so thick a Cylinder of Brass , as made the chief part of the pump of our Engine , should yield to the Sucker , that was mov'd up and down in it , though by the help of an Iron rack ; and whereas he adds , that the leather , that surrounds the more solid part of the Sucker , would yield to such a force ; it seems , that that compression of the leather should by thrusting the solid parts into the pores make the leather rather less than more fit to give passage to the Air ; nor would it however follow , notwithstanding Mr. Hobbes's Example , that , because a Body admits Water , it must be pervious to Air : For I have several times , by ways elsewhere taught , made Water penetrate the pores of Bladders , and yet Bladders resist the passage of the Air so well , that even when Air included in them was sufficiently rarified by Heat , or by our Engine , it was necessary for the Air to break them before it could get out ; which would not have been , if it could have escap'd through their pores . What Mr. Hobbes inculcates here again concerning his ventus vehementissimus , you will find answer'd in the place of my Examen I lately directed you to . A. We may then proceed to Mr. Hobbes's next Explication , which he proposes in these terms : A. Causam video nunc unius ex Machinae mirabilibus , nimirum cur Suctor , postquam est aliquatenus retractus & deinde amissus , subitò recurrit ad Cylindri summitatem . Nam Aer , qui vi magna fuit impulsus , rursus per repercussionem ad externa vi eadem revertitur . B. Atque hoc quidem Argumenti satis est etiam solum , quòd locus à suctore relictus non est Vacuus . Quid enim aut attrahere aut impellere suctorem potuit ad locum illum unde retractus erat , si Cylindrus fuisset vacuus ? Namut Aeris pondus aliquod id efficere potuisset , falsum esse satis supra demonstravi ab eo quod Aer in Aere gravitare non potest . Nosti etiam , quod cum è recipiente Aerem omnem ( ut illi loquuntur ) exegerint , possunt tamen trans vitrum id quod intus fit videre , & sonum , si quis fiat , inde audire . Id quod solum , etsi nullum aliud Argumentum esset ( sunt autem multa , ) ad probandum , nullum esse in Recipiente Vacuum , abundè sufficit . B. Here are several things joyn'd together , which the Author had before separately alledg'd in his often-mention'd Dialogue . The first is , the Cause he assigns of the ascension of the Sucker forcibly deprest to the bottom of the exhausted Cylinder , and then let alone by him that pumpt ; to which might be added , that this ascension succeeded , when the Sucker was clogg'd with an hundred pound weight . This Explication of Mr. Hobbes you will find examin'd in the 33th and 39th , and some ensuing pages of my Discourse . And as to his denying , that the weight or pressure of the Air could drive up the Sucker in that Phaenomenon , because the Air does not weigh in Air , we may see the contrary largely proved in divers places of my Examen , and more particularly and expresly in the four first pages of the third Chapter . And whereas he says in the last place , that the visibility of Bodies included in our Receivers , and the propagation of Sound , ( which , by the way , is not to be understood of all Sound that may be heard , though made in the exhausted Receiver , ) are alone sufficient Arguments to prove no Vacuum : I have consider'd that passage in the answer I made to the like allegation in the 45th page of the Examen ; and shall only observe here , that , since the Vacuists can prove , that much of the Air is pumpt out of the exhausted Receiver , and will pretend , that , notwithstanding many interspers'd Vacuities , there may be in the Receiver corporeal substance enough to transmit Light and stronger Sounds , Mr. Hobbes has not perform'd what he pretended , if he have but barely proved , that there may be Substances capable of conveying Light and Sound in the cavity of our Receiver , since he triumphantly asserts , Nullum esse in Recipienti Vacuum . But we may leave Mr. Hobbes and his Adversaries to dispute out this point , and go on to the next passage . A. Which follows in these words : Ad illud autem , quod si Vesica aliquatenus inflata in Recipiente includatur , paulo post per exuctionem aeris inflatur vehementius & dirumpitur , quid respondes ? B. Motus partium Aeris undiquaque concurrentium velocissimus & per concursum in spatiis brevissimis numeroque infinitis gyrationis velocissimae vesicam in locis innumerabilibus simul & vi magna , instar totidem terebrarum , penetrat , praesertim si vesica , antequam immittatur , quò magis resistat aliquatenus inflat a sit . Postquam autem Aer penetrans semel ingressus est , facile cogitare potes , quo pacto deinceps vesicam tendet , & tandem rumpet . Verùm si antequam rumpatur , versâ claviculâ , Aer externus admittatur , videbis vesicam propter vehementiam motus temperatam diminutâ tensione rugosiorem . Nam id quoque observatum est . Jam si haec , quam dixi , causa minùs tihi videatur verisimilis , vide an tu aut alius quicunque imaginari potest , quo pacto vesica distendi & rumpi possit à viribus Vacui , id est , Nihili . B. This Explication Mr. Hobbes gave us in the 19th page of his Dialogue De Natura Aeris , and you may find it at large confuted in the latter part of the third Chapter of my Examen . Nor does , what he here says in the close about the Vires Vacui or Nihili , deserve to detain us , since there is no reason at all , that the Vacuists should ascribe to nothing a power of breaking a Bladder , of whose rupture the Spring of the included Air supplies them so easily with a sufficient Cause . After what Mr. Hobbes has said of the breaking of a Bladder , he proceeds to an Experiment which he judges of affinity with it , and his Academian having propos'd this Question : Unde fit ut animalia tam cito , nimirum spatio quatuor minutorum horae , in recipiente interficiantur ? For answer to it our Author says : B. Nonne animalia sic inclusa insugunt in Pulmones Aerem vehementissimè motum ? Quo motu necesse est ut transitus sanguinis ab uno ad alterum cordis ventriculum interceptus , non multò pòst sistatur . Cessatio autem sanguinis , Mors est . Possunt tamen animalia cessante sanguine reviviscere , si Aer externus satis maturè intromittatur , vel ipsa in Aerem temperatum , antequam refrixerit sanguis , extrahantur . This Explication is not probable enough , to oblige me to add any thing about it to what I have said in the 49th and the two following pages of my Examen ; especially the most vehement motion , ascrib'd to the Air in the Receiver , having been before proved to be an Imaginary thing . You may therefore , if you please , take notice of the next Explication . [ Idem Aer ( says he ) in Recipiente Carbones ardentes extinguit , sed & illi , si , dum satis calidi sunt , eximantur , relucebunt . Notissimum est , quòd in fodinis Carbonum terreorum ( cujus rei experimentum ipse vidi ) saepissime è lateribus foveae ventus quidam undiquaque exit , qui fossores interficit ignemque extinguit , qui tamen reviviscunt si satis cito ad Aerem liberum extrahantur . ] This Comparison which Mr. Hobbes here summarily makes , he more fully display'd in his Dialogue De Natura Aeris , and I consider'd , what he there alledg'd , in the 52th page and the two next of my Examen . And , though I will not contradict Mr. Hobbes in what he historically asserts in this passage ; yet I cannot but somewhat doubt , whether he mingles not his conjecture with the bare matter of fact . For , though I have with some curiosity visited Mines in more places than one , and propos'd Questions to Men that have been conversant in other Mines , both elsewhere and in England ( and particularly in Derbyshire where Mr. Hobbes lived long ; ) yet I could never find , that any such odd and vehement wind , as Mr. Hobbes ascribes the Phaenomenon to , had been by them observed to kill the Diggers , and extinguish well-lighted Coals themselves : And indeed , it seems more likely , that the damp , by its tenacity or some peculiarly malign quality , did the mischief , than a wind , of which I found not any notice taken ; especially since we see , what vehement winds Men will be able to endure for a long time , without being near-kill'd by them ; and that it seems very odd , that a wind , that Mr. Hobbes does not observe to have blown away the Coals , that were let down , should be able ( instead of kindling them more fiercely ) to blow them out . A. The last Experiment of your Engine , that your Adversary mentions in these Problems , is deliver'd in this passage : A. Si phialam aquae in Recipiens dimiseris , exucto Aere bullire videbis aquam . Quid ad hoc Respondebis ? B. Credo sanè in tanta Aeris motitatione saltaturam esse aquam , sed ut calefiat nondum audivi . Sed imaginabile non est , Saltationem illam à Vacuo nasci posse . B. This Phaenomenon he likewise took notice of , and attempted to explicate in his above-mention'd Dialogue , which gave me occasion in the 46th and 47th pages of my Examen , to shew how unlikely 't is , that the vehement motion of the Air should be the cause of it ; but he here tells us , that 't is not imaginable , that this dancing of the water ( as he is pleas'd to call it ) proceeds from a vacuum , nor do I know any Man that ever pretended , that a vacuum was the efficient cause of it . But the Vacuists perhaps will tell him , that , though the bubbling of the water be not an effect of a vacuum , it may be a proof of it against him ; for they will tell him , that it has been formerly proved , that a great part of the Atmospherical Air is by pumping remov'd out of our exhausted Receiver , and consequently can no more , as formerly , press upon the surface of the water . Nor does Mr. Hobbes shew what succeeds in the room of it ; and therefore it will be allowable , for them to conclude against him ( though not perhaps against the Cartesians ) that there are a great many interspers'd Vacuities left in the Receiver , which are the occasion , though not the proper efficient cause , of the Phaenomenon . For they will say , that the Springy Particles of the yet included Air , having room to unbend themselves in the spaces deserted by the Air that was pumpt out , the Aerial and Springy Corpuscles , that lay conceal'd in the pores of the water , being now freed from the wonted pressure that kept them coil'd up in the liquor , expanded themselves into numerous bubbles , which , because of their comparative lightness , are extruded by the water , and many of them appear to have risen from the bottom of it . And Mr. Hobbes's vehement wind , to produce the several Circumstances of this Experiment , must be a lasting one . For , after the agitation of the Pump has been quite left off , provided the external Air be kept from getting in , the bubbles will sometimes continue to rise for an hour after . And that which agrees very well with our Explication and very ill with that of Mr Hobbes's , is , that , when by having continued to pump a competent time , the water has been freed from the Aerial particles that lurk'd in it before , though one continue to pump as lustily as he did , yet the water will not at all be cover'd with bubbles as it was , the Air that produc'd them being spent ; though , according to Mr. Hobbes's Explication , the wind in the Receiver continuing , the dance of the water should continue too . A. I easily ghess , by what you have said already , what you may say of that Epiphonema wherewith Mr. Hobbes ( in his 18th page ) concludes the Explications of the Phaenomena of your Engine . [ Spero jam te certum esse , says he , nullum esse Machinae illius Phaenomenon , quo demonstrari potest ullum in Universo locum dari corpore omni vacuum . ] B. If you ghess'd aright , you ghess'd that I would say , that as to the Phaenomena of my Engine , my business was to prove , that he had not substituted good Explications of them in the place of mine , which he was pleased to reject . And as for the proving a Vacuum by the Phaenomena of my Engine , though I declar'd that was not the thing intended , yet I shall not wonder , that the Vacuists should think those Phaenomena give them an advantage against Mr. Hobbes . For , though in the passage recited by you he speak more cautiously than he is won to do , yet , by what you may have already observ'd in his Argumentations , the way he takes to solve the Phaenomena of our Engine , is by contending , that our Receiver , when we say it is almost exhausted , is as full as ever ( for he will have it perfectly full , ) of common Air ; which is a conceit so contrary to I know not how many Phaenomena , that I do not remember I have met with or heard of any Naturalist , whether Vacuist or Plenist , that having read my Physico-Mechanical Experiments and his Dialogue , has embrac'd his opinion . A. After what you have said , I will not trouble you with what he subjoyns about Vacuum in general , where having made his Academian say , [ Mundum scis finitum esse , & per Consequens vacuum esse oportere totum illud Spatium quod est extra mundum infinitum . Quid impedit quo minus vacuum illud cum Aere mundano permisceatur ? ] He answers : De rebus transmundanis nihil scio . For I know , that it concerns not you to take notice of it . But possibly the Vacuists will think , he fathers upon them an Impropriety they would not be guilty of , making them speak , as if they thought , the ultra-mundan Vacuum were a real Substance that might be brought into this World and mingled with our Air. And since , for ought I know , Mr. Hobbes might have spar'd this passage , if he had not design'd it should introduce the slighting answer he makes to it ; I shall add , that by the account Mr. Hobbes has given of several Phaenomena within the World , 't is possible , that the Vacuists may believe his Profession of knowing nothing of things beyond it . After the Experimenta Boyliana ( as your other Adversary calls them ; ) Mr : Hobbes proceeds to the Torricellian Experiment , of which he thus discourses : A. Quid de experimento censes Torricelliano , probante Vacuum per Argentum vivum hoc modo : est in seq . figurae ad A , pelvis sive aliud vas , & in eo Argentum vivum usque ad B ; est autem C D tubus vitreus concavus repletus quoque Argento vivo . Hunc tubum si digito obturaveris erexerisque in vase A , manumque abstuleris , descendet Argentum vivum à C ; verùm non effundetur totum in pelvim , sed sistetur in distantia quadam , puta in D. Nonne ergo necessarium est , ut pars tubi inter C & D sit vacua ? Non enim puto negabis quin superficies tubi concava & Argenti vivi convexa se mutuo exquisitissimè contingant . B. Ego neque nego contactum , neque vim Consequentiae intelligo . By which passage it seems that he still persists in the solution of this Experiment , which he gave in his Dialogue De Natura Aeris , and formerly did , for the main , either propose , or adopt , in his Elements of Philosophy . B. This opinion or explication of Mr. Hobbes I have , as far as concerns me , consider'd in the 36th , and some insuing pages , of my Examen , to which it may well suffice me to refer you . But yet let me take notice of what he now alledges : B. Si quis ( says he ) in Argentum vivum , quod in vase est , vesicam immerserit inflatam , nonne illa amotâ manu emerget ? A. It a certè , etsi esset vesica ferrea vel ex materia quacunque praeter Aurum . B. Vides igitur ab Aere penetrari posse Argentum vivum . A. Etiam , & quidem illâ ipsâ vi quam à pondere accipit Argenti vivi . I confess this Allegation did a little surprize me : It concern'd Mr. Hobbes to prove , that as much Air , as was displac'd by the descending Mercury , did at the orifice of the Tube , immers'd in stagnant Mercury , invisibly ascend to the upper part of the pipe . To prove this he tells us , that a bladder full of Air being depress'd in Quicksilver , will , when the hand that depress'd it is remov'd , be squeez'd up by the very weight of the Mercury , whence it follows , that Air may penetrate Quicksilver . But I know not , who ever deny'd , that Air inviron'd with Quicksilver may thereby be squeez'd upwards ; but , since even very small bubbles of Air may be seen to move in their passage through Mercury , I see not , how this Example will at all help the Proposer of it . For 't is by meer accident , that the Air included in the bladder comes to be buoy'd up , because the bladder it self is so ; and if it were fill'd with Water instead of Air , or with Stone instead of Water , it would nevertheless emerge , as himself confesses it would do , if it were made of Iron , or of any Matter besides Gold , because all other Bodies are lighter in specie than Quicksilver . But since the emersion of the bladder is manifest enough to the sight , I see not how it will serve Mr. Hobbes's turn , who is to prove that the Air gets into the Torricellian Tube invisibly ; since 't is plain , that even heedful observation can make our Eyes discover no such trajection of the Air ; which ( to add that inforcement of our Argument ) must not only pass unseen through the sustained Quicksilver , but must likewise unperceivedly dive , in spite of its comparative lightness , beneath the surface of the ponderous stagnant Mercury , to get in at the orifice of the erected Tube . But let us , if you please , hear the rest of his Discourse about this Experiment . A. Though it be somewhat prolix , yet , according to my custom hitherto , I will give it you verbatim . B. Simul atque Argentum vivum descenderit ad D , altius erit in vase A quàm antè , nimirum plus erit Argenti vivi in vase quàm erat ante descensum , tanto quantum capit pars tubi C , D. Tanto quoque minus erit Aeris extra tubum quàm ante erat . Ille autem Aer qui ab Argento vivo loco suo extrusus est , ( suppositâ universi plenitudine ) quò abire potest nisi ad eum locum , qui in tubo inter C & D à descensu Argenti vivi relinquebatur ? sed quâ , inquies , viâ in illum locum successurus est ? Quà , nisi per ipsum corpus Argenti vivi Aerem urgentis ? Sicut enim omne grave liquidum , sui ipsius pondere , Aerem , quem descendendo prennt , ascendere cogit ( si via alia non detur ) per suum ipsius corpus ; ita quoque Aerem quem premit ascendendo , ( si via alia non detur ) per suum ipsius corpus transire cogit . Manifestum igitur est , supposità mundi plenitudine posse Aerem externum ab ipsa gravitate Argenti vivi cogi in locum illum inter C & D. Itaque phaenomenon illud necessitatem vacus nondemonstrat . Quoniam autem corpus Argenti vivi penetrationi , quae fit ab Aere , non nihil resistit , & ascensioni Argenti vivi in vase A resistit Aer ; quando illae duae resistentiae aequales erunt , tunc in tubo sistetur alicubi Argentum vivum ; atque ibi est D. B. In answer to this Explication I have in my Examen propos'd divers things , which you may there meet with : And indeed his Explication has appear'd so improbable to those that have written of this Experiment , that I have not found it embrac'd by any of them , though , when divers of them oppos'd it , the Phaenomena of our Engine were not yet divulg'd . Not then needlesly to repeat what has been said already , I shall on this occasion only add one Experiment , that I afterwards made , and it was this : Having made the Torricellian Experiment ( in a straight Tube ) after the ordinary way , we took a little piece of a fine Bladder , and raising the Pipe a little in the stagnant Mercury , but not so high as the surface of it , the piece of Bladder was dexterously conveyed in the Quicksilver , so as to be applied by ones finger to the immersed orifice of the Pipe , without letting the Air get into the Cavity of it ; then the Bladder was tyed very straight and carefully to the lower end of the Pipe , whose orifice ( as we said ) it cover'd before , and then the Pipe being slowly lifted out of the stagnant Mercury , the impendent Quicksilver appear'd to lean but very lightly upon the Bladder , being so near an exact Aequilibrium with the Atmosperical Air , that , if the Tube were but a very little inclin'd , whereby the gravitation of the Quicksilver , being not so perpendicular , came to be somewhat lessen'd , the Bladder would immediately be driven into the orifice of the Tube , and to the Eye , plac'd without , appear to have acquir'd a concave superficies instead of the convex it had before . And when the Tube was re-erected , the Bladder would no longer appear suck'd in , but be again somewhat protuberant . And if , when the Mercury in the Pipe was made to descend a little below its station into the stagnant Mercury , if , I say , at that nick of time the piece of Bladder were nimbly and dexterously apply'd , as before , to the immers'd orifice , and fasten'd to the sides of the Pipe , upon the lifting the Instrument out of the stagnant Mercury , the Cylinder of that Liquor being now somewhat short of its due height , was no longer able fully to counterpoise the weight of the Atmospherical Air , which consequently , though the Glass were held in an erected posture , would press up the Bladder into the orifice of the Pipe , and both make and maintain there a Cavity sensible both to the Touch and the Eye . A. What did you mainly drive at in this Experiment ? B. To satisfie some Ingenious Men , that were more diffident of , than skilful in , Hydrostaticks , that the pressure of the external Air is capable of sustaining a Cylinder of 29 or 30 Inches of Mercury , and upon a small lessening of the gravitation of that ponderous liquor , to press it up higher into the Tube . But a farther use may be made of it against Mr. Hobbes's pretension . For , when the Tube is again erected , the Mercury will subside as low as at first , and leave as great a space as formerly was left deserted at the top ; into which how the Air should get to fill it , will not appear easie to them , that , like you and me , know by many tryals , that a Bladder will rather be burst by Air than grant it passage . And if it should be pretended , either that some Air from without had yet got through the Bladder , or that the Air , that they may presume to have been just before included between the Bladder and the Mercury , made its way from the lower part of the Instrument to the upper ; 't is obvious to answer , That 't is no way likely , that it should pass all along the Cylinder unseen by us ; since , when there are really any Aerial Bubbles , though smaller than Pins heads , they are easily discernible . And in our case , there is no such resistance of the Air to the ascension of the stagnant Mercury , as Mr. Hobbes pretends in the Torricellian Experiment made the usual way . A. But , whatever becomes of Mr. Hobbes's Explication of the Phaenomenon ; yet may not one still say , that it affords no advantage to the Vacuists against him ? B. Whether or no it do against other Plenists , I shall not now consider ; but I doubt , the Vacuists will tell Mr. Hobbes , that he is fain in two places of the Explication , we have read , to suppose the Plenitude of the World , that is , to beg the thing in question , which 't is not to be presum'd they will allow . A. But may not Mr. Hobbes say , that 't is as lawful for him to suppose a Plenum , as for them to suppose a Vacuum . B. I think he may justly say so ; but 't is like they will reply , that , in their way of explicating the Torricellian Experiment , they do not suppose a Vacuum at to Air , but prove it . For they shew a great space , that having been just before fill'd with Quicksilver , is now deserted by it , though it appeared not , that any Air succeeded in its room ; but rather , that the upper end of the Tube is either totally or near totally so devoid of Air , that the Quicksilver may without resistance , by barely inclining the Tube , be made to fill it to the very top : Whereas Mr. Hobbes is fain to have recourse to that which he knows they deny , the Plenitude of the World , not proving by any sensible Phaenomena , that there did get in through the Quicksilver Air enough to fill the deserted part of the Tube , but only concluding , that so much Air must have got in there , because , the World being full , it could find no room any where else ; which the Vacuists will take for no proof at all , and the Cartesians , though Plenists , who admit an Etherial matter capable of passing through the pores of Glass , will , I doubt , look upon but as an improper Explication . A. I remember on this occasion another Experiment of yours , that seems unfavourable enough to Mr. Hobbes's Explication , and you will perhaps call it to mind when I tell you , that 't was made in a bended Pipe almost fill'd with Quicksilver . B. To see whether we understand one another , I will briefly describe the Instrument I think you mean. We took a Cylindrical Pipe of Glass , clos'd at the upper end , and of that length , that being dexterously bent at some Inches from the bottom , the shorter legg was made as parallel as we could to the longer : In this Glass we found an expedient , ( for 't is not easie to do , ) to make the Torricellian Experiment , the Quicksilver in the shorter legg serving instead of the stagnant Quicksilver in the usual Baroscope , and the Quicksilver in the longer legg reaching above that in the shorter about eight or nine and twenty Inches . Then , by another artifice , the shorter legg , into which the Mercury did not rise within an Inch of the top , was so order'd , that it could in a trice be Hermetically seal'd , without disordering the Quicksilver . And this is the Instrument that I ghess you mean. A. It is so , and I remember , that it is the same with that , which in the Paradox about Suction you call , whilst the shorter legg remains unseal'd , a Travelling Baroscope . But when I saw you make the Experiment , that legg was Hermetically seal'd , an Inch of Air in its natural or usual consistence being left in the upper part of it , to which Air you outwardly applied a pair of heated Tongs . B. Yet that , which I chiefly aim'd at in the Trial , was not the Phaenomenon I perceive you mean ; for , my design was , by breaking the Ice for them , to encourage some , that may have more skill and accommodation than I then had , to make an attempt that I did not find to have been made by any ; namely , to reduce the Expensive force of Heat in every way included Air , if not in some other Bodies also , to some kind of measure , and , if 't were possible , to determin it by weight . And I presumed , that at least the event of my Tryal would much confirm several Explications of mine , by shewing , that Heat is able , as long as it lasts , very considerably to increase the Spring or pressing power of the Air. And in this conjecture I was not mistaken ; for , having shut up , after the manner newly recited , a determinate quantity of uncomprest Air , which , ( in the Experiment you saw , ) was about one Inch ; we warily held a pair of heated Tongs near the outside of the Glass , ( without making it touch the Instrument , for fear of breaking it , ) whereby the Air being agitated was enabled to expand it self to double its former Dimensions , and consequently had its Spring so strengthen'd by Heat , that it was able to raise all the Quicksilver in the longer legg , and keep up or sustain a Mercurial Cylinder of about nine and twenty Inches high , when by its expansion it would , if it had not been for the Heat , have lost half the force of its elasticity . But whatever I design in this Experiment , pray tell me , what use you would make of it against Mr. Hobbes . A. I believe , he will find it very difficult to shew , what keeps the Mercury suspended in the longer legg of the Travelling Baroscope , when the shorter legg is unstopt , at which it may run out ; since this Instrument may , as I have try'd , be carried to distant places , where it cannot with probability be pretended , that any Air has been displac'd by the fall of the Quicksilver in the longer legg , which perhaps fell long before above a mile off . And when the shorter legg is feal'd , it will be very hard for Mr. Hobbes to shew there the odd motions of the Air , to which he ascribes the Torricellian Experiment . For , if you warily incline the Instrument , the Quicksilver will rise to the top of the longer legg , and immediately subside , when the Instrument is again erected , and yet no Air appears to pass through the Quicksilver interpos'd between the ends of the longer and the shorter legg . But that which I would chiefly take notice of in the Experiment , is , that upon the external application of a hot Body to the shorter legg of the Baroscope , when 't was seal'd up , the included Air was expanded from one Inch to two , and so rais'd the whole Cylinder of Mercury in the longer legg , and , whilst the heat continued undiminished , kept it from subsiding again . For , if the Air were able to get unseen through the body of the Quicksilver , why had it not been much more able , when rarified by Heat , to pass through the Quicksilver , than for want of doing so to raise and sustain so weighty a Cylinder of Mercury ? I shall not stay to inquire on this occasion , how Mr. Hobbes will , according to his Hypothesis , explicate the rarefaction of the Air to double its former dimensions , and the condensation of it again ; especially since , asserting that part of the upper legg , that is unfill'd with the Quicksilver , to be perfectly full of Air , he affirms that , which I doubt he cannot prove , and which may very probably be disproved by the Experiment you mention in the Discourse about Suction , where you shew , to another purpose , that in a Travelling Baroscope , whose shorter legg is seal'd , if the end of the longer legg be open'd , whereby it comes indeed to be fill'd with Air , the pressure of that Air will enable the subjacent Mercury notably to compress the Air included in the shorter legg . B. I leave Mr. Hobbes to consider what you have objected against his Explication of the Torricellian Experiment ; to which I shall add nothing , though perhaps I could add much , because I think it may be well spared , and our Conference has lasted long already . A. I will then proceed to the last Experiment recited by Mr. Hobbes in his Problemata de Vacuo . A. Si Phialam , collum habentem longiusculum , candèmque omni Corpore praeter Aerem vacuam ore sugas , continuoque Phialae os aquae immergas , videbis aquam aliquousque ascendere in Phialam . Quî fieri hoc potest nisi factum sit Vacuum ab exuctione Aeris , in cujus locum possit Aqua illa ascendere ? B. Concesso Vacuo , oportet quaedam loca vacua fuisse in illo Aere , etiam qui erat intra Phialam ante suctionem . Cur ergo non ascendebat Aqua ad ea implenda absque suctione ? Is qui sugit Phialam , neque in ventrem quicquam , neque in pulmones , neque in os è Phiala exugit . Quid ergo agit ? Aerem commovet , & in partibus ejus conatum sugendo efficit per os exeundi , & non admittendo , conatum redeundi . Ab his conatibus contrariis componitur circumitio intra Phialam , & conatus exeundi quaquaversum . Itaque Phialae ore aquae immerso , Aer in subject am aquam penetrat è Phiala egrediens , & tantundem aquae in Phialam cogit . Praeterea vis illa magna suctionis facit , ut sugentis labra cum collo Phialae aliquando arctissimè cohaereant propter contactum exqusitissimum . B. As to the first Clause of Mr. Hobbes's account of our Phaenomenon , the Vacuists will easily answer his Question by acknowledging , that there were indeed interspers'd Vacuities in the Air contain'd in the Vial before the suction ; but they will add , there was no reason , why the Water should ascend to fill them , because , being a heavy body , it cannot rise of it self , but must be raised by some prevalent weight or pressure , which then was wanting . Besides , that there being interspers'd Vacuities as well in the rest of the Air that was very near the Water , as in that contained in the Vial , there was no reason , why the Water should ascend to fill the Vacuities of one portion of Air rather than those of another . But when once by suction a great many of the Aerial Corpuscles were made to pass out of the Vial , the Spring of the remaining Air being weaken'd , whilst the pressure of the ambient Air , which depends upon its constant Gravity , is undiminished , the Spring of the internal becomes unable to resist the weight of the external Air , which is therefore able to impel the interpos'd Water with some violence into the Cavity of the Glass , 'till the Air , remaining in that Cavity , being reduced almost to its usual Density , is able by its Spring , and the weight of the Water got up into the Vial , to hinder any more Water from being impell'd up . For , as to what Mr. Hobbes affirms , that , Is qui su git Phialam neque in ventrem quicquam , neque in pulmones , neque in os quicquam exugit : How it will agree with what he elsewhere delivers about Suction . I leave him to consider . But I confess , I cannot but wonder at his confidence , that can positively assert a thing so repugnant to the common sentiments of Men of all opinions , without offering any proof for it . But I suppose , they that are by tryal acquainted with Sucking , and have felt the Air come in at their mouths , will prefer their own experience to his authority . And as to what he adds , that the Person that sucks agitates the Air , and turns it within the Vial into a kind of circulating wind , that endeavours every where to get out ; I wish , he had shewn us by what means a Man that sucks makes this odd Commotion of the Air ; especially in such Vials as I use to employ about the Experiment , the orifice of whose neck is sometimes less than a Pins head . A. That there may be really Air extracted by Suction out of a Glass , me thinks you might argue from an Experiment I saw you make with a Receiver which was exhausted by your Pump , and consequently by Suction . For I remember , when you had counterpois'd it with very good Scales , and afterwards by turning a stop-cock , let in the outward Air , there rush'd in as much Air to fill the space that had been deserted by the Air pumpt out , as weighed some scruples ( consisting of twenty grains a piece ) though the Receiver were not of the largest size . B. You did well to add that Clause ; for , the Magdobargic Experiment , mentioned by the industrious Schottus , having been made with a vast Receiver , the readmitted Air amounted to a whole ounce and some drachms . But to return to Mr. Hobbes , I fear not that he will perswade you , that have seen the Experiment he recites , that as soon as the neck of the Vial is unstopt under water , the Air , that whitl'd about before , makes a sally out , and forces in as much water . For , if the orifice be any thing large , you will , instead of feeling an endeavour to thrust away your finger that stopt it , find the pulp of your finger so thrust inward , that a Peripatetick would affirm that he felt it suckt in . And that Intrusion may be the Reason , why the lip of him that sucks is oftentimes strongly fasten'd to the orifice of the Vials neck , which Mr. Hobbes ascribes to a most exquisit contact , but without clearly telling us , how that extraordinary contact is effected . And when your finger is removed , instead of perceiving any Air go out of the Vial through the water , ( which , if any such thing happen , you will easily discover by the bubbles , ) you shall see the water briskly spring up in a slender stream to the top of the Vial , which it could not do , if the Cavity were already full of Air. And to let you see , that , when the Air does really pass in or out of the Vial immers'd under water , 't is very easie to perceive its motions , if you dip the neck of the Vial in water , and then apply to the globulous part of it either your warm hands or any other competent Heat , the internal Air being rarified ; you shall see a portion of it , answerable to the degree of Heat you applied , manifestly pass through the water in successive bubbles , whilst yet you shall not see any water get into the Vial to supply the place deserted by that Air. And if , when you have ( as you may do by the help of sucking ) fill'd the neck and part of the belly of the Vial with water , you immerse the orifice into stagnant water , and apply warm hands to the globulous part as before , you will find the water in the Vial to be driven out , before any bubbles pass out of the Vial into the surrounding water ; which shews , that the Air is not so forward to dive under the water , ( and much less under so ponderous a liquor as Quicksilver , ) as Mr. Hobbes has supposed . A. That 't is the Pressure of the external Air , that ( surmounting the Spring of the internal ) drives up the water into the Vial we have been speaking of , does , I confess , follow upon your Hypothesis : But an Experimentarian Philosopher , as Mr. Hobbes calls you among others , may possibly be furnished with an Experiment to confirm this to the Eye . B. You bring into my mind what I once devised to confirm my Hypothesis about Suction , but found a while since that I had omitted it in my Discourse about that Subject . And therefore I shall now repeat to you the substance at least of the Memorial that was written of that Experiment , by which the great interest of the weight of the Atmospherical Air in Suction will appear , and in which also some things will occur , that will not well agree with Mr. Hobbes's Explication , and prevent some of his Allegations against mine . A. Having not yet met with an Experiment of this nature , such an one as you speak of will be welcome to me . B. We took a Glass Bubble , whose long stem was both very slender and very Cylindrical ; then by applying to the outside of the Ball or globulous part a convenient heat , we expell'd so much of the Air , as that , when the end of the pipe was dipt in water , and the inward Air had time to recover its former coolness , the water ascended either to the top of the pipe or very near it . This done , we gently and warily rarified the Air in the Cavity of the Bubble , 'till by its expansion it had driven out almost all the water that had got up into the stem , that so it might attain as near as could be to that degree of heat and measure of expansion , that it had when the water began to rise in it . And we were careful to leave two or three drops of water unexpell'd at the bottom of the pipe , that we might be sure , that none of the included Air was by this second rarefaction driven out at the orifice of it ; as the depression of the water so low assured us , on the other side , that the included Air wanted nothing considerable of the expansion it had when the water began to ascend into the pipe . Whilst the Air was in this rarified state , we presently removed the little Instrument out of the stagnant water into stagnant Quicksilver , which in a short time began to rise in the pipe . Now , if the ascension of the liquor were the effect of Natures Abhorrence of a Vacuum ; or of some internal principle of Motion ; or of the Compression and propagated Pulsion of the outward Air by that which had been expell'd ; why should not the Mercury have ascended to the top of the pipe , as the water did before ? But de facto it did not ascend half , or perhaps a quarter so far ; and if the pipe had been long enough , as well as 't was slender enough , I question , whether the Mercury would have ascended ( in proportion to the length of the stem ) half so high as it did . Now of this Experiment , which we tryed more than once , I see not , for the reason lately express'd , how any good account will be given without our Hypothesis , but according to That 't is clear . A. I think I perceive why you say so ; for the Ascension of Liquors being an effect of the prevalency of the external Airs pressure against the resistance it meets with in the Cavity of the Instrument , and the Quicksilver being bulk for bulk many times heavier than water , the same surplusage of pressure that was able to impel up water to the top of the pipe , ought not to be able to impel up the Quicksilver to any thing near that height . And if it be here objected , as it very plausibly may be , that the raised Cylinder of Mercury was much longer than it ought to have been in reference to a Cylinder of Water , the proportion in gravity between those two Liquors ( which is almost that of fourteen to one ) being considered ; I answer , that when the Cylinder of Water reach'd to the pipe , the Air possess'd no more than the Cavity of the globulous part of the Instrument , being very little assisted to dilate it self by so light a Cylinder as that of Water : But when the Quicksilver came to be impell'd into the Instrument by the weight of the external Air , that ponderous Body did not stop its ascent as soon as it came to be equiponderant to the formerly expell'd Cylinder of Water ; because , to attain that height , it reached but a little way into the pipe , and left all the rest of the Cavity of the pipe to be fill'd with part of that Air , which formerly was all shut up in the Cavity of the Bubble ; by which means the Air , included in the whole Instrument , must needs be in a state of expansion , and thereby have its Spring weakened , and consequently disabled to resist the pressure of the external Air , as much as the same included Air did before , when it was less rarified ; on which account , the undiminished weight or pressure of the external Air was able to raise the Quicksilver higher and higher , 'till it had obtained that height , at which the pressure , compounded of the weight of the Mercurial Cylinder and the Spring of the internal Air ( now less rarified than before , ) was equivalent to the pressure of the Atmosphere or external Air. B. You have given the very Explication I was about to propose ▪ wherefore I shall only add , that , to confirm this Experiment by a kind of Inversion of it , we drove by heat a little Air out of the Bubble , and dipt the open end of the pipe into Quicksilver , which by this means we made to ascend 'till it had fill'd about a fourth part or less of the pipe , when that was held erected . Then carefully removing it without letting fall any Quicksilver , or letting in any Air , we held the orifice of the pipe a little under the surface of a Glass full of Water , and applying a moderate heat to the outside of the Ball , we warily expell'd the Quicksilver , yet leaving a little of it to make it sure that no Air was driven out with it ; then suffering the included Air to cool , the external Air was found able to make the Water not only ascend to the very top of the pipe , and thence spread it self a little into the Cavity of the Ball , but to carry up before it the Quicksilver that had remained unexpell'd at the bottom of the stem . And if in making the Experiment we had first raised , as we sometimes did , a greater quantity of Quicksilver , and afterwards drove it out , the quantity of Water , that would be impell'd into the Cavity of the pipe and ball , would be accordingly increased . A. In this Experiment 't is manifest , that something is driven out of the Cavity of the Glass before the Water or Quicksilver begins to ascend in it : And here also we see not , that the Air can pass through the pores of Quicksilver or Water , but that it drives them on before it , without sensibly mixing with them . In this Experiment there appears not at all any Circular Wind , as Mr. Hobbes fancies in the suckt Vial we are disputing of , nor any tendency outwards of the included Air upon the account of such a Wind ; but , instead of these things , that the ascension of the Liquors into the Cavity of the pipe depends upon the external Air , pressing up the Liquors into that Cavity , may be argu'd by this , that the same weight of the Atmosphere impell'd up into the pipe so much more of the lighter Liquor , Water , than of the heavier Liquor , Mercury . B. You have said enough on this Experiment ; but 't is not the only I have to oppose to Mr. Hobbes his Explication : For , that there is no need of the sallying of Air out of a Vial , to make the Atmospherical Air press against a Body that closes the orifice of it , when the pressure of the internal Air is much weakened ; I have had occasion to shew some Virtuosi , by sucking out , with the help of an Instrument , a considerable portion of the Air contained in a Glass ; for having then , instead of unstopping the orifice under water , nimbly applied a flat Body to it , the external Air press'd that Body so forcibly against it , as to keep it fastened and suspended , though 't were clogg'd with a weight of many ounces . A. Another Experiment of yours Mr. Hobbes's Explication brings into my mind , by which it appears , that , if there be such a Circular Wind , as he pretends , produced by Suction in the Cavity of the Vial , it must needs be strangely lasting . For I have seen more than once , that , when you have by an Instrument suckt much of the Air out of a Vial , and afterwards carefully closed it , though you kept the slender neck of it stopt a long time , perhaps for some weeks or months , yet when 't was open'd under water , a considerable quantity of the Liquor would be briskly impell'd up into the neck and belly of the Vial. So that , though I will not be so pleasant with Mr. Hobbes , as to mind you on this occasion of those Writers of Natural Magick , that teach us to shut up Articulate , Sounds in a Vessel , which being transported to a distant place and open'd there , will render the Words that are committed to it ; yet I must needs say , that so lasting a Circular Wind , as , according to Mr. Hobbes , your Experiments exhibited , may well deserve our wonder . B. Your admiration would perchance increase , if I should assure you , that having with the Sun-beams produced smoak in one of those well-stopt Vials , this Circular Wind did not at all appear to blow it about , but suffered it to rise , as it would have done if the included Air had been very calm . And now I shall add but one Experiment more , which will not be liable to some of the things as invalid as they are , which Mr. Hobbes has alledged in his account of the Vial , and which will let you see , that the weight of the Atmospherical Air is a very considerable thing ; and which may also incline you to think , that , whilst Mr. Hobbes does not admit a subtiler Matter than common Air to pass through the Pores of close and solid Bodies , the Air he has recourse to will sometimes come too late to prevent a Vacuum . The Experiment , which was partly accidental , I lately found registred to this sense , if not in these words : [ Having , to make some Discovery of the weight of the Air , and for other purposes , caus'd an Aeolipile , very light considering its bulk , to be made by a famous Artist , I had occasion to put it so often into the fire for several Tryals , that at length the Copper scal'd off by degrees , and left the Vessel much thinner than when it first came out of the Artificers hands ; and a good while after , this change in the Instrument being not in my thoughts , I had occasion to imploy it , as formerly , to weigh how many grains it would contain of the Air at such a determinate constitution of the Atmosphere , as was to be met with , where I then chanced to be . For the making this Experiment the more exactly , the Air was by a strong , but warily applied , fire so carefully driven away , that , when clapping a piece of Sealing-wax to the Pin-hole , at which it had been forced out , we hindred any communication betwixt the Cavity of the Instrument and the external Air , we suppos'd the Aeolipile to be very well exhausted , and therefore laid it by , that , when it should be grown cold , we might , by opening the orifice with a Pin , again let in the outward Air , and observe the encrease of weight that would thereupon ensue : But the Instrument , that , as I was saying , was grown thin , had been so diligently freed from Air , that the very little that remain'd , and was kept by the Wax from receiving any assistance from without , being unable by its Spring to assist the Aeolipile to support the weight of the ambient Air ; this external fluid did by its weight press against it so strongly , that it compress'd it , and thrust it so considerably inwards , and in more than one place so chang'd its figure , that , when I shew'd it to the Virtuosi that were assembled at Gresham-Colledge , they were pleased to command it of me to be kept in their Repository , where I presume it is still to be seen . FINIS . NEW EXPERIMENTS About the PRESERVATION OF BODIES IN VACUO BOYLIANO . By the Honourable ROBERT BOYLE , Fellow of the Royal Society . LONDON , Printed by William Godbid , and are to be Sold by Moses Pitt , at the Angel over against the little North Door of St. Paul's Church . 1674. Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A28939-e150 Credo , ( says Mr. Hobbes in his Dialogus Physicus : ) Nam motus hic Restitutionis , Hobbii est , & ab illo primo & solo explicatus in Lib. de Corpore , cap. 21. Art. 1. Sine qua Hypothesi , quantuscunque labor , ars , sumptus , ad rerum Naturaliū invisibiles causas inveniendas adbibeatur , frustra erit . And speaking of the Gentleman ( to whom it were not here proper for me so give E●ithe●es ) that us'd to meet at Gresham-College , and are known by the Name of the Royal Secrety , he thus treats them and their way of Inquiring into Nature : Conveniant , studia conferant , Experimenta faciant quantum volunt , nisi & Principiis utantur mess , nihil proficient . A. Pateris ergo nihil bactenus à Collegis tuis promotam esse scientium Causarum Naturalium , nisi quod Unus eorum Machinam invenerit , quâ motus excitari Aeris possit talis , ut partes Sphaerae simul undiquaque tendant ad Centrum , & ut Hypotheses Hobbianae , antè quidem satis probabiles , hinc reddantur probabiliores . B. Nec fateri pudet ; nam est aliqu●d prodire tenus , si non datur ultra . A. Quid tinus ? quorsum autem tantus apparatus & sumptus Machinarum factu difficilium , ut eatenus tantum productis quantum ante prodi●rat Hobbius ? Cut non inde potius incepistis ubi ille desiit ? Cur Principiis ab illo positis non estis usi ? Cumque Aristoteles recte dixit , ignorato motu ignorari Naturam , &c. — Ad Causas autem , propter quas proficere ne pau●usum quidem potuistis , nec poter●tis , accedunt etiam ●liae , ut odium Hobbii , &c. De Nat. Aeris , p. 13.